Re: My experience with 4S

[Guest guest]

Food can very important for forming social bonds in the animal kingdom and we are primates after all. I can't help but ponder if that might have something to do with a kind of heightened sensitivity at the family dinner table...imho.To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011

12:24:33 PMSubject: Re: Re: My experience with 4S

Thank you for your input! Hypothese are there to be tested, and All information important.So far you are the first one to directly say to me that it did not start from occurrences at family meals. In my interviews it was it was not necessarily abuse at the dining table. Several women had selective eating/ swallowing/ food dislike problems. Others reacted to repetitive insistence on manners, or "just another bite", or pressure to converse nicely, or even the way a sibling looked at them across the table.So my next question is whether you recall if your brother cracked his knuckles at the table?Let your email find you with BlackBerry from Vodafone

Sender: Soundsensitivity

Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2011 17:02:08 -0000To: <Soundsensitivity >ReplyTo: Soundsensitivity

Subject: Re: My experience with 4S

Tara, I realize you were addressing Heidi with this message so I hope you'll excuse my replying I was wondering if in your interviews you'd spoken with anyone whose first trigger was not related to eating? I first started having 4S symptoms triggered by my brother's cracking his knuckles- eating noises came later.

>

> Heidi,

> I originally formed an hypothesis that 4S was often provoked by different situations during family mealtimes. This was proved true by quite a few people I interviewed.

> Would you consider telling me a bit about family mealtimes when you were growing up?

> With thanks,

> Tara

> Let your email find you with BlackBerry from Vodafone

[Guest guest]

My first rememberance was my dad's nose breathing. It kind of whistled and it made me go ballistic when I heard it. I believe I was about 12 or so. My grandmother had symptoms of this problem, my mom has it, one of my daughters has it, and my granddaughter also has this horrible affliction.

To: Soundsensitivity From: stacy.c.anderson@...Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 18:45:11 +0000Subject: Re: My experience with 4S

Mine was finger pointing by my grandmother at maybe 5 years old. Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

Sender: Soundsensitivity

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 08:26:23 -0800 (PST)

To: <Soundsensitivity >

ReplyTo: Soundsensitivity

Subject: Re: My experience with 4S

I think that having the problem brought to ones attention is a big contributing factor with 4S, however I feel there must be a predisposition for it. Maybe even genetic.

My mother was always talking about how much the sounds bothered her and correcting everyones eating noises ( and manners) , but I picked it up, not my brother or sister. I'm a lot like her in other ways too including allergies. I had two children. My youngest daughter, who is my clone in so many ways, is the one who picked it up. Not my other daughter(thank God!).

I just don't have the answer, but that is my observation.

ML.

Subject: My experience with 4STo: Soundsensitivity Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 4:12 PM

Hi Everyone,I'm new to the group and joined specifically to save my marriage. I'm pretty sure I know why I have this condition. And now it seems that my wife is beginning to "catch" it.Background: As a child (I'm 45), my siblings and I would be punished for making "avoidable" noises at the dinner table (e.g., scraping teeth with a fork, humming, chewing with our mouths open, snorting, scraping knives sideways on a plate, etc.) The first infraction during a meal would result in an icy stare from my father and tension in the room for the rest of the meal. A second infraction would result in punishment. The punishment was pretty standard - go to bed for the rest of the day - without finishing the meal. No TV, books, newspapers, magazines, radio, etc. Pretty much just go sit in silence and we'll see you tomorrow. If we cried, he'd come upstairs and "give us something to cry about" - usually a beating with his belt.I'm not looking for sympathy, nor do I want to appear as one of the "it's all my father's fault" people. I'm just laying out the facts as I believe they are related to my 4S.What I "learned" was that making unnecessary sounds would result in punishment; and even if I wasn't the one being punished, I still had to sit through the remainder of the meal - which was punishment in itself. What started out as a nice dinner could end with tension, fear, and anxiety. Over time, everyone at the table would shoot an icy stare at the offender. We all were taking on my father's aversion to everyday sounds. Maybe he had 4S? Sound irritation moved from the dinner table to the house in general (playing too loudly, creaking the stairs, popping bubble gum, etc), to school, to work, to my own home. The list of sounds that I just can't ignore now includes everything mentioned above plus chewing hard candy, fussing with candy wrappers and plastic bags, chewing ice, playing with coins in a pocket, newscasters with speech impediments, mispronounced words like "shtreet" (instead of "street"), incessant clicking of a pen, typing, lip smacking at the beginning of every sentence, word repetition (i.e. same word being used multiple times in a sentence), feet thudding across the floor above me, chair legs screeching when dragged across a floor, etc, etc.These sounds don't make me fearful or fill me with rage, they irritate and aggravate. My reaction to these sounds can be staring, mimicking the sound, talking loudly enough to drown out the sound, turning up the volume of the tv/radio, leaving the room, etc. I used to say something about it, but people weren't very sympathetic. They'd make more noise just to bug me. Being forced to deal with irritating sounds without vocalizing displeasure caused me to be more passive in my responses.A worst-case scenario for me is when I'm in a meeting or seminar and there are bowls of hard candy at every table. There's always someone that will eat a whole bowl of them - and refill at every break. It may take a minute or so of fussing with the wrapper to get the candy open. Then they crunch the candy rather than letting it dissolve slowly. While doing this, they mindlessly fold the wrapper into the tiniest square possible. Then they begin unwrapping another piece as the final bits of the previous piece are being chomped. This is worst-case for me because I can't focus on the topic being discussed and I can't tune out what I'm hearing. I just sit there stewing - waiting for someone to tell them to SHUT UP; wondering how everyone else can tune it out while I can't; wondering how someone can deliberately be so rude and inconsiderate of others; and looking around the room trying to make eye contact with others that are annoyed but finding no one. Once that person does take a break, someone else picks up where he left off. Eventually, I have to join in as it's the only way to make enough noise to drown out what I'm hearing. The session ends, I've learned nothing, and I've eaten a bunch of candy. During breaks, I've asked other people "Could that guy make more of a racket with the candy?" and the response is always "What guy? I didn't hear anything." Basically they're saying that I have issues.Recently, my wife told me that she's tired of walking on eggshells around me. I was surprised because I just passively and subtly leave the room, turn up the radio, talk, etc when she makes a sound that annoys me. I realize that it's my problem and deal with it the best I can - without directing anger toward her. But she's no dummy. She sees the icy stare out of the corner of her eye; she realizes I'm leaving the room because I don't want to hear her crunch cereal; she knows that using her emory board on her nails will cause me to take the dog out; etc. When she drops a piece of silverware, she now experiences all the feelings I experienced 40 years ago. She becomes tense, waiting for my reaction, knowing I'm completely irritated. I don't want her feeling that way around me. I have to change.As far as I'm concerned, my 4S is a behavioral issue caused by events that occurred an early age and allowed to grow unchecked for decades. Now I need to fix it. I don't think medicines or vitamins are the answer. For me, I think it's "unlearning" the behavior. My guess is that either hypnosis or completely immersing myself in sounds I hate will be the cure for me. Maybe I should make a recording of the sounds and play them loudly during my commute. If I can tolerate them for an hour straight, I should be able to tolerate the occasional instance.Out of curiosity, have any of you had an early experience similar to mine where punishment may have caused the symptoms of 4S? Or did most people have a relatively normal childhood and feel that 4S is more genetic than environmental? Has anyone tried hypnotism or "sound immersion"?Thanks for listening.MarkPS - I'm not a fan of receiving long emails so I apologize for sending one.

[Guest guest]

This begs the question though: why do we have all these other triggers and why do many if us have non food first triggers? It just seems more likely that the dinner table is the place to most likely bother us the most as we are confined with multiple people engaging in the sounds we hate. Sent from my iPhone

Food can very important for forming social bonds in the animal kingdom and we are primates after all. I can't help but ponder if that might have something to do with a kind of heightened sensitivity at the family dinner table...imho.To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011

12:24:33 PMSubject: Re: Re: My experience with 4S

Thank you for your input! Hypothese are there to be tested, and All information important.So far you are the first one to directly say to me that it did not start from occurrences at family meals. In my interviews it was it was not necessarily abuse at the dining table. Several women had selective eating/ swallowing/ food dislike problems. Others reacted to repetitive insistence on manners, or "just another bite", or pressure to converse nicely, or even the way a sibling looked at them across the table.So my next question is whether you recall if your brother cracked his knuckles at the table?Let your email find you with BlackBerry from Vodafone

Sender: Soundsensitivity

Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2011 17:02:08 -0000To: <Soundsensitivity >ReplyTo: Soundsensitivity

Subject: Re: My experience with 4S

Tara, I realize you were addressing Heidi with this message so I hope you'll excuse my replying I was wondering if in your interviews you'd spoken with anyone whose first trigger was not related to eating? I first started having 4S symptoms triggered by my brother's cracking his knuckles- eating noises came later.

>

> Heidi,

> I originally formed an hypothesis that 4S was often provoked by different situations during family mealtimes. This was proved true by quite a few people I interviewed.

> Would you consider telling me a bit about family mealtimes when you were growing up?

> With thanks,

> Tara

> Let your email find you with BlackBerry from Vodafone

[Guest guest]

Does anyone know if there's a correlation between 4S and intelligence? To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 3:33:55 PMSubject: Re: Re: My experience with 4S

This begs the question though: why do we have all these other triggers and why do many if us have non food first triggers? It just seems more likely that the dinner table is the place to most likely bother us the most as we are confined with multiple people engaging in the sounds we hate. Sent from my iPhone

Food can very important for forming social bonds in the animal kingdom and we are primates after all. I can't help but ponder if that might have something to do with a kind of heightened sensitivity at the family dinner table...imho.To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011

12:24:33 PMSubject: Re: Re: My experience with 4S

Thank you for your input! Hypothese are there to be tested, and All information important.So far you are the first one to directly say to me that it did not start from occurrences at family meals. In my interviews it was it was not necessarily abuse at the dining table. Several women had selective eating/ swallowing/ food dislike problems. Others reacted to repetitive insistence on manners, or "just another bite", or pressure to converse nicely, or even the way a sibling looked at them across the table.So my next question is whether you recall if your brother cracked his knuckles at the table?Let your email find you with BlackBerry from Vodafone

Sender: Soundsensitivity

Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2011 17:02:08 -0000To: <Soundsensitivity >ReplyTo: Soundsensitivity

Subject: Re: My experience with 4S

Tara, I realize you were addressing Heidi with this message so I hope you'll excuse my replying I was wondering if in your interviews you'd spoken with anyone whose first trigger was not related to eating? I first started having 4S symptoms triggered by my brother's cracking his knuckles- eating noises came later.

>

> Heidi,

> I originally formed an hypothesis that 4S was often provoked by different situations during family mealtimes. This was proved true by quite a few people I interviewed.

> Would you consider telling me a bit about family mealtimes when you were growing up?

> With thanks,

> Tara

> Let your email find you with BlackBerry from Vodafone

[Guest guest]

Welcome Mark,

You told my story!! And I have come to understand that the rage my father acted

out was because of his own 4S triggers. Why else were they such abusive asses?

Think about it. Also - I have 3 siblings: 2 of us have 4S and 2 of us don't.

And one of the ones who doesn't was the one who got beaten the most. Go figure!

My husband has become more in tune with sounds that trigger me and is bothered

by them, but not on a gut level - it's more of an awareness and concern for me.

I am probably the most sensitive and it helps me tremendously to stay in the

solution and do as much research and write as many letters as I can. Gotta' pin

my hope on something!!! (I'm 52 years old)

>

>

>

>

> Subject: My experience with 4S

> To: Soundsensitivity

> Date: Monday, January 31, 2011, 4:12 PM

>

>

>  

>

>

>

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> I'm new to the group and joined specifically to save my marriage.  I'm pretty

sure I know why I have this condition.  And now it seems that my wife is

beginning to " catch " it.

>

> Background:  As a child (I'm 45), my siblings and I would be punished for

making " avoidable " noises at the dinner table (e.g., scraping teeth with a fork,

humming, chewing with our mouths open, snorting, scraping knives sideways on a

plate, etc.)  The first infraction during a meal would result in an icy stare

from my father and tension in the room for the rest of the meal.  A second

infraction would result in punishment.  The punishment was pretty standard - go

to bed for the rest of the day - without finishing the meal.  No TV, books,

newspapers, magazines, radio, etc.  Pretty much just go sit in silence and

we'll see you tomorrow.  If we cried, he'd come upstairs and " give us something

to cry about " - usually a beating with his belt.

>

> I'm not looking for sympathy, nor do I want to appear as one of the " it's all

my father's fault " people.  I'm just laying out the facts as I believe they are

related to my 4S.

>

> What I " learned " was that making unnecessary sounds would result in

punishment; and even if I wasn't the one being punished, I still had to sit

through the remainder of the meal - which was punishment in itself.  What

started out as a nice dinner could end with tension, fear, and anxiety.  Over

time, everyone at the table would shoot an icy stare at the offender.  We all

were taking on my father's aversion to everyday sounds.  Maybe he had 4S? 

>

> Sound irritation moved from the dinner table to the house in general (playing

too loudly, creaking the stairs, popping bubble gum, etc), to school, to work,

to my own home.  The list of sounds that I just can't ignore now includes

everything mentioned above plus chewing hard candy, fussing with candy wrappers

and plastic bags, chewing ice, playing with coins in a pocket, newscasters with

speech impediments, mispronounced words like " shtreet " (instead of " street " ),

incessant clicking of a pen, typing, lip smacking at the beginning of every

sentence, word repetition (i.e. same word being used multiple times in a

sentence), feet thudding across the floor above me, chair legs screeching when

dragged across a floor, etc, etc.

>

> These sounds don't make me fearful or fill me with rage, they irritate and

aggravate. 

>

> My reaction to these sounds can be staring, mimicking the sound, talking

loudly enough to drown out the sound, turning up the volume of the tv/radio,

leaving the room, etc.  I used to say something about it, but people weren't

very sympathetic.  They'd make more noise just to bug me.  Being forced to

deal with irritating sounds without vocalizing displeasure caused me to be more

passive in my responses.

>

> A worst-case scenario for me is when I'm in a meeting or seminar and there are

bowls of hard candy at every table.  There's always someone that will eat a

whole bowl of them - and refill at every break.  It may take a minute or so of

fussing with the wrapper to get the candy open.  Then they crunch the candy

rather than letting it dissolve slowly.  While doing this, they mindlessly fold

the wrapper into the tiniest square possible.  Then they begin unwrapping

another piece as the final bits of the previous piece are being chomped.  This

is worst-case for me because I can't focus on the topic being discussed and I

can't tune out what I'm hearing.  I just sit there stewing - waiting for

someone to tell them to SHUT UP; wondering how everyone else can tune it out

while I can't; wondering how someone can deliberately be so rude and

inconsiderate of others; and looking around the room trying to make eye contact

with others that are annoyed but finding

> no one.  Once that person does take a break, someone else picks up where he

left off.  Eventually, I have to join in as it's the only way to make enough

noise to drown out what I'm hearing.  The session ends, I've learned nothing,

and I've eaten a bunch of candy.  During breaks, I've asked other people " Could

that guy make more of a racket with the candy? " and the response is always " What

guy?  I didn't hear anything. "   Basically they're saying that I have issues.

>

> Recently, my wife told me that she's tired of walking on eggshells around

me.  I was surprised because I just passively and subtly leave the room, turn

up the radio, talk, etc when she makes a sound that annoys me.  I realize that

it's my problem and deal with it the best I can - without directing anger toward

her.  But she's no dummy.  She sees the icy stare out of the corner of her

eye; she realizes I'm leaving the room because I don't want to hear her crunch

cereal; she knows that using her emory board on her nails will cause me to take

the dog out; etc.  When she drops a piece of silverware, she now experiences

all the feelings I experienced 40 years ago.  She becomes tense, waiting for my

reaction, knowing I'm completely irritated.  I don't want her feeling that way

around me.  I have to change.

>

> As far as I'm concerned, my 4S is a behavioral issue caused by events that

occurred an early age and allowed to grow unchecked for decades.  Now I need to

fix it.  I don't think medicines or vitamins are the answer.  For me, I think

it's " unlearning " the behavior.  My guess is that either hypnosis or completely

immersing myself in sounds I hate will be the cure for me.  Maybe I should make

a recording of the sounds and play them loudly during my commute.  If I can

tolerate them for an hour straight, I should be able to tolerate the occasional

instance.

>

> Out of curiosity, have any of you had an early experience similar to mine

where punishment may have caused the symptoms of 4S?  Or did most people have a

relatively normal childhood and feel that 4S is more genetic than

environmental?  Has anyone tried hypnotism or " sound immersion " ?

>

> Thanks for listening.

> Mark

>

> PS - I'm not a fan of receiving long emails so I apologize for sending one.

>

[Guest guest]

Mark, I really feel for you. Big time. I was so sad when my soon-to-be ex-wife's

noises started working my nerves. It indicated a shift that troubled me deeply.

She was the last person I wanted to be so aggravated by. We're not parting ways

because of my 4S, but it didn't help. It doesn't help ANY relationship.

I also quietly left the room when she would eat cereal; slurp, crunch, and

clatter all at once. Intolerable!! Cereal is the absolute worst. Like you, I

didn't want to make my problem her problem, and did my very best not to make her

feel my irrational rage around this stuff (when she was the perp, anyway). I

would go to the bathroom and read a magazine until I thought she might be done

eating. However, I couldn't contain my feelings when she would walk around the

house, brushing her teeth and talking at the same time. I'd stare at her, and

she'd get hurt and say, " You hate it when I do this! " You bet I hated it. Since

she intuited that much, why did she keep doing it???? Such an easy fix--just

stay in the G-D bathroom when you're brushing! PLEASE!

Also, your description of the work scenario in which one is in a meeting or

seminar where there is candy or other food present is so precisely on the money,

it's as though you peeled it out of my own head. At past jobs, I couldn't deal

with it when people would bring their lunch into meetings--except there was no

choice BUT to deal with it. All I could do was wait for the pain to end. :-(

Couldn't hear a thing except for the munching, swallowing, ice-rattling, and

wrapper-crinkling. It's bad enough feeling those awful feelings, but ten times

more stressful having to conceal your emotions and swallow the rage.

Internalizing all that must be terrible for our health.

At my current job, all meetings are held on the phone--MUCH easier to handle.

The only problem with this scenario is the odd numskull who insists on sharing

her meetings with everyone in the vicinity via speakerphone. :-/ Still, even

that is better than sitting in the same room with someone making mouth noises

and crinkling their d*** food wrappers. Ugh.

Long story short--you have my full compassion.

Jay

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> I'm new to the group and joined specifically to save my marriage. I'm pretty

> sure I know why I have this condition. And now it seems that my wife is

> beginning to " catch " it.

>

> Background: As a child (I'm 45), my siblings and I would be punished for

making

> " avoidable " noises at the dinner table (e.g., scraping teeth with a fork,

> humming, chewing with our mouths open, snorting, scraping knives sideways on a

> plate, etc.) The first infraction during a meal would result in an icy stare

> from my father and tension in the room for the rest of the meal. A second

> infraction would result in punishment. The punishment was pretty standard -

go

> to bed for the rest of the day - without finishing the meal. No TV, books,

> newspapers, magazines, radio, etc. Pretty much just go sit in silence and

we'll

> see you tomorrow. If we cried, he'd come upstairs and " give us something to

cry

> about " - usually a beating with his belt.

>

> I'm not looking for sympathy, nor do I want to appear as one of the " it's all

my

> father's fault " people. I'm just laying out the facts as I believe they are

> related to my 4S.

>

> What I " learned " was that making unnecessary sounds would result in

punishment;

> and even if I wasn't the one being punished, I still had to sit through the

> remainder of the meal - which was punishment in itself. What started out as a

> nice dinner could end with tension, fear, and anxiety. Over time, everyone at

> the table would shoot an icy stare at the offender. We all were taking on my

> father's aversion to everyday sounds. Maybe he had 4S?

>

>

> Sound irritation moved from the dinner table to the house in general (playing

> too loudly, creaking the stairs, popping bubble gum, etc), to school, to work,

> to my own home. The list of sounds that I just can't ignore now includes

> everything mentioned above plus chewing hard candy, fussing with candy

wrappers

> and plastic bags, chewing ice, playing with coins in a pocket, newscasters

with

> speech impediments, mispronounced words like " shtreet " (instead of " street " ),

> incessant clicking of a pen, typing, lip smacking at the beginning of every

> sentence, word repetition (i.e. same word being used multiple times in a

> sentence), feet thudding across the floor above me, chair legs screeching when

> dragged across a floor, etc, etc.

>

> These sounds don't make me fearful or fill me with rage, they irritate and

> aggravate.

>

>

> My reaction to these sounds can be staring, mimicking the sound, talking

loudly

> enough to drown out the sound, turning up the volume of the tv/radio, leaving

> the room, etc. I used to say something about it, but people weren't very

> sympathetic. They'd make more noise just to bug me. Being forced to deal

with

> irritating sounds without vocalizing displeasure caused me to be more passive

in

> my responses.

>

> A worst-case scenario for me is when I'm in a meeting or seminar and there are

> bowls of hard candy at every table. There's always someone that will eat a

> whole bowl of them - and refill at every break. It may take a minute or so of

> fussing with the wrapper to get the candy open. Then they crunch the candy

> rather than letting it dissolve slowly. While doing this, they mindlessly

fold

> the wrapper into the tiniest square possible. Then they begin unwrapping

> another piece as the final bits of the previous piece are being chomped. This

> is worst-case for me because I can't focus on the topic being discussed and I

> can't tune out what I'm hearing. I just sit there stewing - waiting for

someone

> to tell them to SHUT UP; wondering how everyone else can tune it out while I

> can't; wondering how someone can deliberately be so rude and inconsiderate of

> others; and looking around the room trying to make eye contact with others

that

> are annoyed but finding no one. Once that person does take a break, someone

> else picks up where he left off. Eventually, I have to join in as it's the

only

> way to make enough noise to drown out what I'm hearing. The session ends,

I've

> learned nothing, and I've eaten a bunch of candy. During breaks, I've asked

> other people " Could that guy make more of a racket with the candy? " and the

> response is always " What guy? I didn't hear anything. " Basically they're

> saying that I have issues.

>

> Recently, my wife told me that she's tired of walking on eggshells around me.

I

> was surprised because I just passively and subtly leave the room, turn up the

> radio, talk, etc when she makes a sound that annoys me. I realize that it's

my

> problem and deal with it the best I can - without directing anger toward her.

> But she's no dummy. She sees the icy stare out of the corner of her eye; she

> realizes I'm leaving the room because I don't want to hear her crunch cereal;

> she knows that using her emory board on her nails will cause me to take the

dog

> out; etc. When she drops a piece of silverware, she now experiences all the

> feelings I experienced 40 years ago. She becomes tense, waiting for my

> reaction, knowing I'm completely irritated. I don't want her feeling that way

> around me. I have to change.

>

> As far as I'm concerned, my 4S is a behavioral issue caused by events that

> occurred an early age and allowed to grow unchecked for decades. Now I need

to

> fix it. I don't think medicines or vitamins are the answer. For me, I think

> it's " unlearning " the behavior. My guess is that either hypnosis or

completely

> immersing myself in sounds I hate will be the cure for me. Maybe I should

make

> a recording of the sounds and play them loudly during my commute. If I can

> tolerate them for an hour straight, I should be able to tolerate the

occasional

> instance.

>

> Out of curiosity, have any of you had an early experience similar to mine

where

> punishment may have caused the symptoms of 4S? Or did most people have a

> relatively normal childhood and feel that 4S is more genetic than

> environmental? Has anyone tried hypnotism or " sound immersion " ?

>

> Thanks for listening.

> Mark

>

> PS - I'm not a fan of receiving long emails so I apologize for sending one.

>