Re: ph in true soap shampoo

December 21, 2003

Hi Sunny, what's separating from your soap are the fatty acids that

compose it. You can bring your soap close to pH 9.0 or a little lower

but not much more than that.

RJ

December 22, 2003

In a message dated 12/22/03 5:57:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,

katie36551@... writes:

> In a surfactant based shampoo, pH is critical and more regulated because of

>

> the nature of those ingredients. Both soap and surfactant will clean ...

> but

> soap is the gentler cleanser and by its nature is at a higher pH or it isn't

>

> soap in the way you'd want to use it.

Hi ,

I'm afraid I will have to disagree with this statement. Soap does have an

alkaline nature, but soap is simply NOT as gentle as some of the very mild

surfactants. Surfactants such as decyl glucoside, some of the sulfosuccinates,

the

isethionates all have less irritation potential than soap. There's lots of

research to back this up---search Medline for some studies.

Angie

The Herbarie

Natural Source Ingredients for Toiletries & Cosmetics

http://www.theherbarie.com

December 22, 2003

In a message dated 12/22/2003 10:15:19 AM Central Standard Time,

cathy2@... writes:

> I think you are stuck with either using soap on your hair (high PH) and

> then

> trying to neutralize the PH after wards with vinegar or some other mildly

> acidic stuff

Sunny, what I see in the soap-based shampoo is make sure it's well rinsed ...

soft water and water-pressure handheld dials are great ... and use high

linoleic fatty acids, light oils that are good for hair, and a 4%-5% superfat

(with

my equipment, can only measure within 1/10 ounce, plus oils vary slightly ...

only reason superfat is at least 4% IMO). After rinsing, I prefer to spray

on aloe juice rather than use vinegar, as it's much more gentle than vinegar,

very hydrating to the cortex, and brings the hair pH within better range. My

experience after approximately 4 years is totally clean, soft hair that is

strong and healthy ... and my scalp doesn't itch if I stay away from scents,

etc.

, or take the dive and make a good syndet shampoo. They are relatively easy

to make.

Syndets do rinse easier in all types of water ... mucho info in the archives.

-

December 22, 2003

In a message dated 12/22/2003 10:15:19 AM Central Standard Time,

cathy2@... writes:

> I think you are stuck with either using soap on your hair (high PH) and

> then

> trying to neutralize the PH after wards with vinegar or some other mildly

> acidic stuff

Sunny, what I see in the soap-based shampoo is make sure it's well rinsed ...

soft water and water-pressure handheld dials are great ... and use high

linoleic fatty acids, light oils that are good for hair, and a 4%-5% superfat

(with

my equipment, can only measure within 1/10 ounce, plus oils vary slightly ...

only reason superfat is at least 4% IMO). After rinsing, I prefer to spray

on aloe juice rather than use vinegar, as it's much more gentle than vinegar,

very hydrating to the cortex, and brings the hair pH within better range. My

experience after approximately 4 years is totally clean, soft hair that is

strong and healthy ... and my scalp doesn't itch if I stay away from scents,

etc.

, or take the dive and make a good syndet shampoo. They are relatively easy

to make.

Syndets do rinse easier in all types of water ... mucho info in the archives.

-

December 22, 2003

The problem here is that the nature of soap is high PH. If you lower the ph

of soap to match your hair, you no longer have soap..you have something else

that won't behave like soap.

Synthetic detergents have a lower ph...and work well on hair.

I think you are stuck with either using soap on your hair (high PH) and then

trying to neutralize the PH after wards with vinegar or some other mildly

acidic stuff, or take the dive and make a good syndet shampoo. They are

relatively easy to make.

Sutton

Get Real Soap.

> I am in the midst of formulating a true soap shampoo and as far as I

> can tell am having problems with ph. What I have learned is that

> the ph of hair is relatively low, and since soap is alkaline it does

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.552 / Virus Database: 344 - Release Date: 12/15/03

December 22, 2003

In a message dated 12/22/03 8:54:20 AM Pacific Standard Time,

katie36551@... writes:

> Thanks, Angie ... perhaps I should have clarified that the gentleness

> " factor " of the soap-based cleansing (pros and cons of it included) is less

> harmful

> than some of the surfactants IF THOSE SURFACTANT-BASED PRODUCTS ARE AT THE

> SAME

> pH AS SOAP ...

>

> I do remember your sharing info on gentle surfactants before, but not having

>

> surfactant experience, defer to your experience ... and now am curious.

> Using

> the gentle ones you mentioned, how closely must the pH factor be watched?

>

Hi and All,

I'm not sure which surfactants you are referring to that are alkaline?? But

anyway, I think it's always very important to monitor the pH when when making

any toiletries, but especially important for shampoo/body wash. Ideally,

shampoo should be slightly acidic, but no greater than 7 or so. Most of the

surfactants and shampoo/body wash additives that we sell at The Herbarie are

either slightly acidic or neutral so the product just turns out to be in correct

range (usually around 5.5-7.0). If for some reason, the finished pH does need

to be lowered, it's easy to add a little citric acid solution....but yes, it's

important to monitor the pH.

Yep, I'm a lover of mild surfactants Many are gentle, non-irritating

cleansers and some have emollient properties as well.

Angie

The Herbarie

Natural Source Ingredients for Toiletries & Cosmetics

http://www.theherbarie.com

December 22, 2003