Re: CBT- Sensations vs Reactions

February 17, 2011

- I agree with everything you said, except for the spiritual part. What is a "spiritual manifestation"? Personally, when I hear my trigger sounds, I feel more like I am having a physical reaction; my muscles tense up, my heart increases, sometimes I get tremors if I'm in a place where I can't escape. I think that the physical stimulus is followed by a rush of cortisol and adrenaline, and THAT is where the emotion comes from. Everyone agrees that they feel rage and anger. And then over time, as the person becomes old enough to understand what is happening, there is intense anxiety and anger before the stimulus, just because the brain knows what is about to happen and wants to avoid it at all costs. Stress is very bad for the body. Stress leads to a lot of health problems, and the brain sees the rage as a threat to its longevity and health. I

really feel like my body is trying to protect itself from dangerous stress. However, it's just so damn ODD! A sound?? Really???

Subject: CBT- Sensations vs ReactionsTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 6:04 AM

From reading this particular thread in one sitting, I see two different conversations. On one hand, some people are talking about 4s purely as a reactionary issue-how we 'feel (emotionally) and respond'. On the other hand, there are people talking about how we feel (physically). For my two cents, let me say this: I can understand both sides. I can see how we choose to react is in our control as the power of positive vs negative thinking. I really like the analogy of touching the hot burner. However, untouched in the analogy is the fact that, reaction or not, you're still physically burned. Whether you choose to react with happy thoughts or death threats, your skin is scorched. That's where this whole idea of breathing through it, basically, loses me. Yes, there are things I can do, steps I can take to help alleviate the pain so that I can tolerate bad triggers but as I force myself to breathe through the pain (so to speak), I am still

Feeling (phyiscally if not emotionally) the pain. It just plain hurts. like touching a hot stove. It hurts. What about that? Whether I find a coping mechanism or not, it still frickin' HURTS on a neurological level. It hurts! So...I would like to side with the 'don't Tell me it's all in my head' camp on this one because no matter how positive I try to stay, and no matter how long I train myself to endure the situation, that's all I'm doing is enduring. I'm getting through it, yes, but the pain IS there. So...I don't know if there was really a point I was trying to make in all that. Make of this what you will. My thoughts.

Tammy

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 7:17:02 AMSubject: Re: CBT

Yes, this often runs in families. One of my two daughters has it, the other is completely free of it. I rather suspect that it is a genetic, neurological problem at its deepest level, with lots of bad learning experiences laid on top of that.I have been married 27 years and my wife is my primary trigger person. Early on in the marriage I had to explain to her that I had the same intense reaction to eating sounds when I was a teenager living with my parents. She tries to minimise the amount of triggers, and doesn't take my reaction personally - she understands that I am just reacting to the sounds, and not to her as a person.When I discovered this site and all the fantastic information about 4S/misophonia on the web - like this video on YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIhoEtlgiyII put together a set of materials, sat down with my wife, and showed it to her, so that she could watch the video and read Dr 's

excellent article:http://audiology.advanceweb.com/Article/Selective-Sound-Sensitivity-Syndrome.aspxand several other pieces of information.This helped confirm to her that I was not being deliberately unpleasant or mean, but that I had an unusual, but real, condition that I could not simply "switch off".Since then I have found an excellent psychologist with experience of sensory sensitivity problems, and he has started taking me through CBT (and some newer therapies like "mindfulness" and "dialectical behaviour therapy"). He fully recognises that the initial reaction needn't come from conscious thought - he used the example of distance runners learning to tolerate pain. The pain is physical and real - not the result of "wrong thinking" - but you _can_ learn to control it and extend yourself by learning to control your attention and your thinking.So, like Maikaefer, I agree with you that negative feelings can come from

other places besides our thoughts, but that doesn't mean our thoughts cannot "fight back" and get some real control of our feelings. It may not be total control (someone may always catch us off-guard), but it can mean a much better life.I really do hope that, armed with knowledge now, you will be able to build a relationship with your husband that is stringer than 4S, and also hopefully find someone who can help you get the mind skills to manage the 4S distress as well as you possibly can. Perhaps if you tell your husband that you care about him so much that you want to do whatever you can to get greater control of your 4S, it will help. I am doing the CBT as much for my wife's sake as for my own. I want her to have a better life too - not one where she is constantly trying to avoid making normal sounds because it is distressing me.By the way, even I (living in Australia) have heard of UC and its Mind Institute. I have watched

quite a few videos of lectures at UC by world experts on autism and other conditions. It has a great reputation, as far as I can see from this side of the Pacific.>> Your daughter is so lucky. If you only heard the mean, degrading and demeaning things my mother said to me growing up....Ã‚ I had doctors look at me cross-eyed, like I was a retard... I never had any support, and my brother has it too but will never admit it. He still to this day will not tell my mom that I was telling the truth, he would just back out of every confrontation and then later on admit to me that he had the rage, too. Your daugther is very lucky. My niece is showing signs now, and

my mom supports her.... it totally disgusts me and makes me so ill that she was so mean to me, and so supportive of her., I don't know what it takes to get help, but I guess it's better late than never. Okay, my sob story is over... if you haven't noticed, I';m very, very bitter about 4S and it's impact on me.>

February 17, 2011

- I agree with everything you said, except for the spiritual part. What is a "spiritual manifestation"? Personally, when I hear my trigger sounds, I feel more like I am having a physical reaction; my muscles tense up, my heart increases, sometimes I get tremors if I'm in a place where I can't escape. I think that the physical stimulus is followed by a rush of cortisol and adrenaline, and THAT is where the emotion comes from. Everyone agrees that they feel rage and anger. And then over time, as the person becomes old enough to understand what is happening, there is intense anxiety and anger before the stimulus, just because the brain knows what is about to happen and wants to avoid it at all costs. Stress is very bad for the body. Stress leads to a lot of health problems, and the brain sees the rage as a threat to its longevity and health. I

really feel like my body is trying to protect itself from dangerous stress. However, it's just so damn ODD! A sound?? Really???

Subject: CBT- Sensations vs ReactionsTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 6:04 AM

From reading this particular thread in one sitting, I see two different conversations. On one hand, some people are talking about 4s purely as a reactionary issue-how we 'feel (emotionally) and respond'. On the other hand, there are people talking about how we feel (physically). For my two cents, let me say this: I can understand both sides. I can see how we choose to react is in our control as the power of positive vs negative thinking. I really like the analogy of touching the hot burner. However, untouched in the analogy is the fact that, reaction or not, you're still physically burned. Whether you choose to react with happy thoughts or death threats, your skin is scorched. That's where this whole idea of breathing through it, basically, loses me. Yes, there are things I can do, steps I can take to help alleviate the pain so that I can tolerate bad triggers but as I force myself to breathe through the pain (so to speak), I am still

Feeling (phyiscally if not emotionally) the pain. It just plain hurts. like touching a hot stove. It hurts. What about that? Whether I find a coping mechanism or not, it still frickin' HURTS on a neurological level. It hurts! So...I would like to side with the 'don't Tell me it's all in my head' camp on this one because no matter how positive I try to stay, and no matter how long I train myself to endure the situation, that's all I'm doing is enduring. I'm getting through it, yes, but the pain IS there. So...I don't know if there was really a point I was trying to make in all that. Make of this what you will. My thoughts.

Tammy

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 7:17:02 AMSubject: Re: CBT

Yes, this often runs in families. One of my two daughters has it, the other is completely free of it. I rather suspect that it is a genetic, neurological problem at its deepest level, with lots of bad learning experiences laid on top of that.I have been married 27 years and my wife is my primary trigger person. Early on in the marriage I had to explain to her that I had the same intense reaction to eating sounds when I was a teenager living with my parents. She tries to minimise the amount of triggers, and doesn't take my reaction personally - she understands that I am just reacting to the sounds, and not to her as a person.When I discovered this site and all the fantastic information about 4S/misophonia on the web - like this video on YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIhoEtlgiyII put together a set of materials, sat down with my wife, and showed it to her, so that she could watch the video and read Dr 's

excellent article:http://audiology.advanceweb.com/Article/Selective-Sound-Sensitivity-Syndrome.aspxand several other pieces of information.This helped confirm to her that I was not being deliberately unpleasant or mean, but that I had an unusual, but real, condition that I could not simply "switch off".Since then I have found an excellent psychologist with experience of sensory sensitivity problems, and he has started taking me through CBT (and some newer therapies like "mindfulness" and "dialectical behaviour therapy"). He fully recognises that the initial reaction needn't come from conscious thought - he used the example of distance runners learning to tolerate pain. The pain is physical and real - not the result of "wrong thinking" - but you _can_ learn to control it and extend yourself by learning to control your attention and your thinking.So, like Maikaefer, I agree with you that negative feelings can come from

other places besides our thoughts, but that doesn't mean our thoughts cannot "fight back" and get some real control of our feelings. It may not be total control (someone may always catch us off-guard), but it can mean a much better life.I really do hope that, armed with knowledge now, you will be able to build a relationship with your husband that is stringer than 4S, and also hopefully find someone who can help you get the mind skills to manage the 4S distress as well as you possibly can. Perhaps if you tell your husband that you care about him so much that you want to do whatever you can to get greater control of your 4S, it will help. I am doing the CBT as much for my wife's sake as for my own. I want her to have a better life too - not one where she is constantly trying to avoid making normal sounds because it is distressing me.By the way, even I (living in Australia) have heard of UC and its Mind Institute. I have watched

quite a few videos of lectures at UC by world experts on autism and other conditions. It has a great reputation, as far as I can see from this side of the Pacific.>> Your daughter is so lucky. If you only heard the mean, degrading and demeaning things my mother said to me growing up....Ã‚ I had doctors look at me cross-eyed, like I was a retard... I never had any support, and my brother has it too but will never admit it. He still to this day will not tell my mom that I was telling the truth, he would just back out of every confrontation and then later on admit to me that he had the rage, too. Your daugther is very lucky. My niece is showing signs now, and

my mom supports her.... it totally disgusts me and makes me so ill that she was so mean to me, and so supportive of her., I don't know what it takes to get help, but I guess it's better late than never. Okay, my sob story is over... if you haven't noticed, I';m very, very bitter about 4S and it's impact on me.>

February 17, 2011

Lindsey,

I just see us as spirits living in a body. They transend the physical world and are eternal. Just my personal belief. Spirits are a form of matter(just finer) and have energy, so can be effected by what happens to us in the physical world. It is not necessary to add the spiritual element though.

Hope that explains it.

ML

Subject: CBT- Sensations vs ReactionsTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 6:04 AM

From reading this particular thread in one sitting, I see two different conversations. On one hand, some people are talking about 4s purely as a reactionary issue-how we 'feel (emotionally) and respond'. On the other hand, there are people talking about how we feel (physically). For my two cents, let me say this: I can understand both sides. I can see how we choose to react is in our control as the power of positive vs negative thinking. I really like the analogy of touching the hot burner. However, untouched in the analogy is the fact that, reaction or not, you're still physically burned. Whether you choose to react with happy thoughts or death threats, your skin is scorched. That's where this whole idea of breathing through it, basically, loses me. Yes, there are things I can do, steps I can take to help alleviate the pain so that I can tolerate bad triggers but as I force myself to breathe through the pain (so to speak), I am still

Feeling (phyiscally if not emotionally) the pain. It just plain hurts. like touching a hot stove. It hurts. What about that? Whether I find a coping mechanism or not, it still frickin' HURTS on a neurological level. It hurts! So...I would like to side with the 'don't Tell me it's all in my head' camp on this one because no matter how positive I try to stay, and no matter how long I train myself to endure the situation, that's all I'm doing is enduring. I'm getting through it, yes, but the pain IS there. So...I don't know if there was really a point I was trying to make in all that. Make of this what you will. My thoughts.

Tammy

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 7:17:02 AMSubject: Re: CBT

Yes, this often runs in families. One of my two daughters has it, the other is completely free of it. I rather suspect that it is a genetic, neurological problem at its deepest level, with lots of bad learning experiences laid on top of that.I have been married 27 years and my wife is my primary trigger person. Early on in the marriage I had to explain to her that I had the same intense reaction to eating sounds when I was a teenager living with my parents. She tries to minimise the amount of triggers, and doesn't take my reaction personally - she understands that I am just reacting to the sounds, and not to her as a person.When I discovered this site and all the fantastic information about 4S/misophonia on the web - like this video on YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIhoEtlgiyII put together a set of materials, sat down with my wife, and showed it to her, so that she could watch the video and read Dr 's

excellent article:http://audiology.advanceweb.com/Article/Selective-Sound-Sensitivity-Syndrome.aspxand several other pieces of information.This helped confirm to her that I was not being deliberately unpleasant or mean, but that I had an unusual, but real, condition that I could not simply "switch off".Since then I have found an excellent psychologist with experience of sensory sensitivity problems, and he has started taking me through CBT (and some newer therapies like "mindfulness" and "dialectical behaviour therapy"). He fully recognises that the initial reaction needn't come from conscious thought - he used the example of distance runners learning to tolerate pain. The pain is physical and real - not the result of "wrong thinking" - but you _can_ learn to control it and extend yourself by learning to control your attention and your thinking.So, like Maikaefer, I agree with you that negative feelings can come from

other places besides our thoughts, but that doesn't mean our thoughts cannot "fight back" and get some real control of our feelings. It may not be total control (someone may always catch us off-guard), but it can mean a much better life.I really do hope that, armed with knowledge now, you will be able to build a relationship with your husband that is stringer than 4S, and also hopefully find someone who can help you get the mind skills to manage the 4S distress as well as you possibly can. Perhaps if you tell your husband that you care about him so much that you want to do whatever you can to get greater control of your 4S, it will help. I am doing the CBT as much for my wife's sake as for my own. I want her to have a better life too - not one where she is constantly trying to avoid making normal sounds because it is distressing me.By the way, even I (living in Australia) have heard of UC and its Mind Institute. I have watched

quite a few videos of lectures at UC by world experts on autism and other conditions. It has a great reputation, as far as I can see from this side of the Pacific.>> Your daughter is so lucky. If you only heard the mean, degrading and demeaning things my mother said to me growing up....Ã‚ I had doctors look at me cross-eyed, like I was a retard... I never had any support, and my brother has it too but will never admit it. He still to this day will not tell my mom that I was telling the truth, he would just back out of every confrontation and then later on admit to me that he had the rage, too. Your daugther is very lucky. My niece is showing signs now, and my mom supports her.... it totally disgusts me and

makes me so ill that she was so mean to me, and so supportive of her., I don't know what it takes to get help, but I guess it's better late than never. Okay, my sob story is over... if you haven't noticed, I';m very, very bitter about 4S and it's impact on me.>

February 17, 2011

Lindsey,

I just see us as spirits living in a body. They transend the physical world and are eternal. Just my personal belief. Spirits are a form of matter(just finer) and have energy, so can be effected by what happens to us in the physical world. It is not necessary to add the spiritual element though.

Hope that explains it.

ML

Subject: CBT- Sensations vs ReactionsTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 6:04 AM

From reading this particular thread in one sitting, I see two different conversations. On one hand, some people are talking about 4s purely as a reactionary issue-how we 'feel (emotionally) and respond'. On the other hand, there are people talking about how we feel (physically). For my two cents, let me say this: I can understand both sides. I can see how we choose to react is in our control as the power of positive vs negative thinking. I really like the analogy of touching the hot burner. However, untouched in the analogy is the fact that, reaction or not, you're still physically burned. Whether you choose to react with happy thoughts or death threats, your skin is scorched. That's where this whole idea of breathing through it, basically, loses me. Yes, there are things I can do, steps I can take to help alleviate the pain so that I can tolerate bad triggers but as I force myself to breathe through the pain (so to speak), I am still

Feeling (phyiscally if not emotionally) the pain. It just plain hurts. like touching a hot stove. It hurts. What about that? Whether I find a coping mechanism or not, it still frickin' HURTS on a neurological level. It hurts! So...I would like to side with the 'don't Tell me it's all in my head' camp on this one because no matter how positive I try to stay, and no matter how long I train myself to endure the situation, that's all I'm doing is enduring. I'm getting through it, yes, but the pain IS there. So...I don't know if there was really a point I was trying to make in all that. Make of this what you will. My thoughts.

Tammy

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 7:17:02 AMSubject: Re: CBT

Yes, this often runs in families. One of my two daughters has it, the other is completely free of it. I rather suspect that it is a genetic, neurological problem at its deepest level, with lots of bad learning experiences laid on top of that.I have been married 27 years and my wife is my primary trigger person. Early on in the marriage I had to explain to her that I had the same intense reaction to eating sounds when I was a teenager living with my parents. She tries to minimise the amount of triggers, and doesn't take my reaction personally - she understands that I am just reacting to the sounds, and not to her as a person.When I discovered this site and all the fantastic information about 4S/misophonia on the web - like this video on YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIhoEtlgiyII put together a set of materials, sat down with my wife, and showed it to her, so that she could watch the video and read Dr 's

excellent article:http://audiology.advanceweb.com/Article/Selective-Sound-Sensitivity-Syndrome.aspxand several other pieces of information.This helped confirm to her that I was not being deliberately unpleasant or mean, but that I had an unusual, but real, condition that I could not simply "switch off".Since then I have found an excellent psychologist with experience of sensory sensitivity problems, and he has started taking me through CBT (and some newer therapies like "mindfulness" and "dialectical behaviour therapy"). He fully recognises that the initial reaction needn't come from conscious thought - he used the example of distance runners learning to tolerate pain. The pain is physical and real - not the result of "wrong thinking" - but you _can_ learn to control it and extend yourself by learning to control your attention and your thinking.So, like Maikaefer, I agree with you that negative feelings can come from

other places besides our thoughts, but that doesn't mean our thoughts cannot "fight back" and get some real control of our feelings. It may not be total control (someone may always catch us off-guard), but it can mean a much better life.I really do hope that, armed with knowledge now, you will be able to build a relationship with your husband that is stringer than 4S, and also hopefully find someone who can help you get the mind skills to manage the 4S distress as well as you possibly can. Perhaps if you tell your husband that you care about him so much that you want to do whatever you can to get greater control of your 4S, it will help. I am doing the CBT as much for my wife's sake as for my own. I want her to have a better life too - not one where she is constantly trying to avoid making normal sounds because it is distressing me.By the way, even I (living in Australia) have heard of UC and its Mind Institute. I have watched

quite a few videos of lectures at UC by world experts on autism and other conditions. It has a great reputation, as far as I can see from this side of the Pacific.>> Your daughter is so lucky. If you only heard the mean, degrading and demeaning things my mother said to me growing up....Ã‚ I had doctors look at me cross-eyed, like I was a retard... I never had any support, and my brother has it too but will never admit it. He still to this day will not tell my mom that I was telling the truth, he would just back out of every confrontation and then later on admit to me that he had the rage, too. Your daugther is very lucky. My niece is showing signs now, and my mom supports her.... it totally disgusts me and

makes me so ill that she was so mean to me, and so supportive of her., I don't know what it takes to get help, but I guess it's better late than never. Okay, my sob story is over... if you haven't noticed, I';m very, very bitter about 4S and it's impact on me.>

February 17, 2011

Huh.... interesting! Thanks.

Subject: CBT- Sensations vs ReactionsTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 6:04 AM

From reading this particular thread in one sitting, I see two different conversations. On one hand, some people are talking about 4s purely as a reactionary issue-how we 'feel (emotionally) and respond'. On the other hand, there are people talking about how we feel (physically). For my two cents, let me say this: I can understand both sides. I can see how we choose to react is in our control as the power of positive vs negative thinking. I really like the analogy of touching the hot burner. However, untouched in the analogy is the fact that, reaction or not, you're still physically burned. Whether you choose to react with happy thoughts or death threats, your skin is scorched. That's where this whole idea of breathing through it, basically, loses me. Yes, there are things I can do, steps I can take to help alleviate the pain so that I can tolerate bad triggers but as I force myself to breathe through the pain (so to speak), I am still

Feeling (phyiscally if not emotionally) the pain. It just plain hurts. like touching a hot stove. It hurts. What about that? Whether I find a coping mechanism or not, it still frickin' HURTS on a neurological level. It hurts! So...I would like to side with the 'don't Tell me it's all in my head' camp on this one because no matter how positive I try to stay, and no matter how long I train myself to endure the situation, that's all I'm doing is enduring. I'm getting through it, yes, but the pain IS there. So...I don't know if there was really a point I was trying to make in all that. Make of this what you will. My thoughts.

Tammy

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 7:17:02 AMSubject: Re: CBT

Yes, this often runs in families. One of my two daughters has it, the other is completely free of it. I rather suspect that it is a genetic, neurological problem at its deepest level, with lots of bad learning experiences laid on top of that.I have been married 27 years and my wife is my primary trigger person. Early on in the marriage I had to explain to her that I had the same intense reaction to eating sounds when I was a teenager living with my parents. She tries to minimise the amount of triggers, and doesn't take my reaction personally - she understands that I am just reacting to the sounds, and not to her as a person.When I discovered this site and all the fantastic information about 4S/misophonia on the web - like this video on YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIhoEtlgiyII put together a set of materials, sat down with my wife, and showed it to her, so that she could watch the video and read Dr 's

excellent article:http://audiology.advanceweb.com/Article/Selective-Sound-Sensitivity-Syndrome.aspxand several other pieces of information.This helped confirm to her that I was not being deliberately unpleasant or mean, but that I had an unusual, but real, condition that I could not simply "switch off".Since then I have found an excellent psychologist with experience of sensory sensitivity problems, and he has started taking me through CBT (and some newer therapies like "mindfulness" and "dialectical behaviour therapy"). He fully recognises that the initial reaction needn't come from conscious thought - he used the example of distance runners learning to tolerate pain. The pain is physical and real - not the result of "wrong thinking" - but you _can_ learn to control it and extend yourself by learning to control your attention and your thinking.So, like Maikaefer, I agree with you that negative feelings can come from

other places besides our thoughts, but that doesn't mean our thoughts cannot "fight back" and get some real control of our feelings. It may not be total control (someone may always catch us off-guard), but it can mean a much better life.I really do hope that, armed with knowledge now, you will be able to build a relationship with your husband that is stringer than 4S, and also hopefully find someone who can help you get the mind skills to manage the 4S distress as well as you possibly can. Perhaps if you tell your husband that you care about him so much that you want to do whatever you can to get greater control of your 4S, it will help. I am doing the CBT as much for my wife's sake as for my own. I want her to have a better life too - not one where she is constantly trying to avoid making normal sounds because it is distressing me.By the way, even I (living in Australia) have heard of UC and its Mind Institute. I have watched

quite a few videos of lectures at UC by world experts on autism and other conditions. It has a great reputation, as far as I can see from this side of the Pacific.>> Your daughter is so lucky. If you only heard the mean, degrading and demeaning things my mother said to me growing up....Ã‚ I had doctors look at me cross-eyed, like I was a retard... I never had any support, and my brother has it too but will never admit it. He still to this day will not tell my mom that I was telling the truth, he would just back out of every confrontation and then later on admit to me that he had the rage, too. Your daugther is very lucky. My niece is showing signs now, and my mom supports her.... it totally disgusts me and

makes me so ill that she was so mean to me, and so supportive of her., I don't know what it takes to get help, but I guess it's better late than never. Okay, my sob story is over... if you haven't noticed, I';m very, very bitter about 4S and it's impact on me.>

February 17, 2011

Huh.... interesting! Thanks.

Subject: CBT- Sensations vs ReactionsTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 6:04 AM

From reading this particular thread in one sitting, I see two different conversations. On one hand, some people are talking about 4s purely as a reactionary issue-how we 'feel (emotionally) and respond'. On the other hand, there are people talking about how we feel (physically). For my two cents, let me say this: I can understand both sides. I can see how we choose to react is in our control as the power of positive vs negative thinking. I really like the analogy of touching the hot burner. However, untouched in the analogy is the fact that, reaction or not, you're still physically burned. Whether you choose to react with happy thoughts or death threats, your skin is scorched. That's where this whole idea of breathing through it, basically, loses me. Yes, there are things I can do, steps I can take to help alleviate the pain so that I can tolerate bad triggers but as I force myself to breathe through the pain (so to speak), I am still

Feeling (phyiscally if not emotionally) the pain. It just plain hurts. like touching a hot stove. It hurts. What about that? Whether I find a coping mechanism or not, it still frickin' HURTS on a neurological level. It hurts! So...I would like to side with the 'don't Tell me it's all in my head' camp on this one because no matter how positive I try to stay, and no matter how long I train myself to endure the situation, that's all I'm doing is enduring. I'm getting through it, yes, but the pain IS there. So...I don't know if there was really a point I was trying to make in all that. Make of this what you will. My thoughts.

Tammy

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 7:17:02 AMSubject: Re: CBT

Yes, this often runs in families. One of my two daughters has it, the other is completely free of it. I rather suspect that it is a genetic, neurological problem at its deepest level, with lots of bad learning experiences laid on top of that.I have been married 27 years and my wife is my primary trigger person. Early on in the marriage I had to explain to her that I had the same intense reaction to eating sounds when I was a teenager living with my parents. She tries to minimise the amount of triggers, and doesn't take my reaction personally - she understands that I am just reacting to the sounds, and not to her as a person.When I discovered this site and all the fantastic information about 4S/misophonia on the web - like this video on YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIhoEtlgiyII put together a set of materials, sat down with my wife, and showed it to her, so that she could watch the video and read Dr 's

excellent article:http://audiology.advanceweb.com/Article/Selective-Sound-Sensitivity-Syndrome.aspxand several other pieces of information.This helped confirm to her that I was not being deliberately unpleasant or mean, but that I had an unusual, but real, condition that I could not simply "switch off".Since then I have found an excellent psychologist with experience of sensory sensitivity problems, and he has started taking me through CBT (and some newer therapies like "mindfulness" and "dialectical behaviour therapy"). He fully recognises that the initial reaction needn't come from conscious thought - he used the example of distance runners learning to tolerate pain. The pain is physical and real - not the result of "wrong thinking" - but you _can_ learn to control it and extend yourself by learning to control your attention and your thinking.So, like Maikaefer, I agree with you that negative feelings can come from

other places besides our thoughts, but that doesn't mean our thoughts cannot "fight back" and get some real control of our feelings. It may not be total control (someone may always catch us off-guard), but it can mean a much better life.I really do hope that, armed with knowledge now, you will be able to build a relationship with your husband that is stringer than 4S, and also hopefully find someone who can help you get the mind skills to manage the 4S distress as well as you possibly can. Perhaps if you tell your husband that you care about him so much that you want to do whatever you can to get greater control of your 4S, it will help. I am doing the CBT as much for my wife's sake as for my own. I want her to have a better life too - not one where she is constantly trying to avoid making normal sounds because it is distressing me.By the way, even I (living in Australia) have heard of UC and its Mind Institute. I have watched

quite a few videos of lectures at UC by world experts on autism and other conditions. It has a great reputation, as far as I can see from this side of the Pacific.>> Your daughter is so lucky. If you only heard the mean, degrading and demeaning things my mother said to me growing up....Ã‚ I had doctors look at me cross-eyed, like I was a retard... I never had any support, and my brother has it too but will never admit it. He still to this day will not tell my mom that I was telling the truth, he would just back out of every confrontation and then later on admit to me that he had the rage, too. Your daugther is very lucky. My niece is showing signs now, and my mom supports her.... it totally disgusts me and

makes me so ill that she was so mean to me, and so supportive of her., I don't know what it takes to get help, but I guess it's better late than never. Okay, my sob story is over... if you haven't noticed, I';m very, very bitter about 4S and it's impact on me.>

February 17, 2011

In regards to "However, it's just so damn ODD! A sound?? Really???"

How true. how true. We are peculiar people. Correct me if I'm wrong but are you the one who is new to the list? Someone here said they were new. Well, anyway, every so often on the list (and I apologize if you already know this but if you're new, you won't.) we talk about the oddity of a sound being offensive. But it helps to realize that, for us, it doesn't seem that sound is processed as sound. It's not 'sound' for some strange reason. We'll use me as an example. I don't just 'hear' sound. I feel it. Sounds to me are, by and large, tactile sensations. I don't know how it is that I feel like I can feel sound but I can. (it's the super power from hell). So it's not that this intangibel auditory signal bothers me, it's the person trying to rub sandpaper like a cheese grater over my skin that bothers me. I think even non-4s people would agree that being humanly cheese-grated or death by sandpaper would be excruciating. That is 4S to me. It's a

physical force assaulting me. So....anyway...if that helps....

BTW- I just noticed that "4-S" read aloud together says "Force". haha. Use the Force, Luke! Ah the jokes to come...I will relish making them. Can you imagine if Darth Vader was your dad and you had to listen to that ventilator day in and day out? No wonder Luke was in denial. Noooo!!!!!!!!

Tammy

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 9:38:14 AMSubject: Re: CBT- Sensations vs Reactions

- I agree with everything you said, except for the spiritual part. What is a "spiritual manifestation"? Personally, when I hear my trigger sounds, I feel more like I am having a physical reaction; my muscles tense up, my heart increases, sometimes I get tremors if I'm in a place where I can't escape. I think that the physical stimulus is followed by a rush of cortisol and adrenaline, and THAT is where the emotion comes from. Everyone agrees that they feel rage and anger. And then over time, as the person becomes old enough to understand what is happening, there is intense anxiety and anger before the stimulus, just because the brain knows what is about to happen and wants to avoid it at all costs. Stress is very bad for the body. Stress leads to a lot of health problems, and the brain sees the rage as a threat to its longevity and health. I really feel like my body is trying to protect itself from dangerous stress. However,

it's just so damn ODD! A sound?? Really???

Subject: CBT- Sensations vs ReactionsTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 6:04 AM

From reading this particular thread in one sitting, I see two different conversations. On one hand, some people are talking about 4s purely as a reactionary issue-how we 'feel (emotionally) and respond'. On the other hand, there are people talking about how we feel (physically). For my two cents, let me say this: I can understand both sides. I can see how we choose to react is in our control as the power of positive vs negative thinking. I really like the analogy of touching the hot burner. However, untouched in the analogy is the fact that, reaction or not, you're still physically burned. Whether you choose to react with happy thoughts or death threats, your skin is scorched. That's where this whole idea of breathing through it, basically, loses me. Yes, there are things I can do, steps I can take to help alleviate the pain so that I can tolerate bad triggers but as I force myself to breathe through the pain (so to speak), I am still

Feeling (phyiscally if not emotionally) the pain. It just plain hurts. like touching a hot stove. It hurts. What about that? Whether I find a coping mechanism or not, it still frickin' HURTS on a neurological level. It hurts! So...I would like to side with the 'don't Tell me it's all in my head' camp on this one because no matter how positive I try to stay, and no matter how long I train myself to endure the situation, that's all I'm doing is enduring. I'm getting through it, yes, but the pain IS there. So...I don't know if there was really a point I was trying to make in all that. Make of this what you will. My thoughts.

Tammy

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 7:17:02 AMSubject: Re: CBT

Yes, this often runs in families. One of my two daughters has it, the other is completely free of it. I rather suspect that it is a genetic, neurological problem at its deepest level, with lots of bad learning experiences laid on top of that.I have been married 27 years and my wife is my primary trigger person. Early on in the marriage I had to explain to her that I had the same intense reaction to eating sounds when I was a teenager living with my parents. She tries to minimise the amount of triggers, and doesn't take my reaction personally - she understands that I am just reacting to the sounds, and not to her as a person.When I discovered this site and all the fantastic information about 4S/misophonia on the web - like this video on YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIhoEtlgiyII put together a set of materials, sat down with my wife, and showed it to her, so that she could watch the video and read Dr 's

excellent article:http://audiology.advanceweb.com/Article/Selective-Sound-Sensitivity-Syndrome.aspxand several other pieces of information.This helped confirm to her that I was not being deliberately unpleasant or mean, but that I had an unusual, but real, condition that I could not simply "switch off".Since then I have found an excellent psychologist with experience of sensory sensitivity problems, and he has started taking me through CBT (and some newer therapies like "mindfulness" and "dialectical behaviour therapy"). He fully recognises that the initial reaction needn't come from conscious thought - he used the example of distance runners learning to tolerate pain. The pain is physical and real - not the result of "wrong thinking" - but you _can_ learn to control it and extend yourself by learning to control your attention and your thinking.So, like Maikaefer, I agree with you that negative feelings can come from

other places besides our thoughts, but that doesn't mean our thoughts cannot "fight back" and get some real control of our feelings. It may not be total control (someone may always catch us off-guard), but it can mean a much better life.I really do hope that, armed with knowledge now, you will be able to build a relationship with your husband that is stringer than 4S, and also hopefully find someone who can help you get the mind skills to manage the 4S distress as well as you possibly can. Perhaps if you tell your husband that you care about him so much that you want to do whatever you can to get greater control of your 4S, it will help. I am doing the CBT as much for my wife's sake as for my own. I want her to have a better life too - not one where she is constantly trying to avoid making normal sounds because it is distressing me.By the way, even I (living in Australia) have heard of UC and its Mind Institute. I have watched

quite a few videos of lectures at UC by world experts on autism and other conditions. It has a great reputation, as far as I can see from this side of the Pacific.>> Your daughter is so lucky. If you only heard the mean, degrading and demeaning things my mother said to me growing up....Ã‚ I had doctors look at me cross-eyed, like I was a retard... I never had any support, and my brother has it too but will never admit it. He still to this day will not tell my mom that I was telling the truth, he would just back out of every confrontation and then later on admit to me that he had the rage, too. Your daugther is very lucky. My niece is showing signs now, and my mom supports her.... it totally disgusts me and

makes me so ill that she was so mean to me, and so supportive of her., I don't know what it takes to get help, but I guess it's better late than never. Okay, my sob story is over... if you haven't noticed, I';m very, very bitter about 4S and it's impact on me.>

February 17, 2011

Yes, I am the new chick. And I have to get to school and get my kid to scfhool at the moment.... Let the force be NOT with you today!!!!

Subject: CBT- Sensations vs ReactionsTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 6:04 AM

From reading this particular thread in one sitting, I see two different conversations. On one hand, some people are talking about 4s purely as a reactionary issue-how we 'feel (emotionally) and respond'. On the other hand, there are people talking about how we feel (physically). For my two cents, let me say this: I can understand both sides. I can see how we choose to react is in our control as the power of positive vs negative thinking. I really like the analogy of touching the hot burner. However, untouched in the analogy is the fact that, reaction or not, you're still physically burned. Whether you choose to react with happy thoughts or death threats, your skin is scorched. That's where this whole idea of breathing through it, basically, loses me. Yes, there are things I can do, steps I can take to help alleviate the pain so that I can tolerate bad triggers but as I force myself to breathe through the pain (so to speak), I am still

Feeling (phyiscally if not emotionally) the pain. It just plain hurts. like touching a hot stove. It hurts. What about that? Whether I find a coping mechanism or not, it still frickin' HURTS on a neurological level. It hurts! So...I would like to side with the 'don't Tell me it's all in my head' camp on this one because no matter how positive I try to stay, and no matter how long I train myself to endure the situation, that's all I'm doing is enduring. I'm getting through it, yes, but the pain IS there. So...I don't know if there was really a point I was trying to make in all that. Make of this what you will. My thoughts.

Tammy

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 7:17:02 AMSubject: Re: CBT

Yes, this often runs in families. One of my two daughters has it, the other is completely free of it. I rather suspect that it is a genetic, neurological problem at its deepest level, with lots of bad learning experiences laid on top of that.I have been married 27 years and my wife is my primary trigger person. Early on in the marriage I had to explain to her that I had the same intense reaction to eating sounds when I was a teenager living with my parents. She tries to minimise the amount of triggers, and doesn't take my reaction personally - she understands that I am just reacting to the sounds, and not to her as a person.When I discovered this site and all the fantastic information about 4S/misophonia on the web - like this video on YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIhoEtlgiyII put together a set of materials, sat down with my wife, and showed it to her, so that she could watch the video and read Dr 's

excellent article:http://audiology.advanceweb.com/Article/Selective-Sound-Sensitivity-Syndrome.aspxand several other pieces of information.This helped confirm to her that I was not being deliberately unpleasant or mean, but that I had an unusual, but real, condition that I could not simply "switch off".Since then I have found an excellent psychologist with experience of sensory sensitivity problems, and he has started taking me through CBT (and some newer therapies like "mindfulness" and "dialectical behaviour therapy"). He fully recognises that the initial reaction needn't come from conscious thought - he used the example of distance runners learning to tolerate pain. The pain is physical and real - not the result of "wrong thinking" - but you _can_ learn to control it and extend yourself by learning to control your attention and your thinking.So, like Maikaefer, I agree with you that negative feelings can come from

other places besides our thoughts, but that doesn't mean our thoughts cannot "fight back" and get some real control of our feelings. It may not be total control (someone may always catch us off-guard), but it can mean a much better life.I really do hope that, armed with knowledge now, you will be able to build a relationship with your husband that is stringer than 4S, and also hopefully find someone who can help you get the mind skills to manage the 4S distress as well as you possibly can. Perhaps if you tell your husband that you care about him so much that you want to do whatever you can to get greater control of your 4S, it will help. I am doing the CBT as much for my wife's sake as for my own. I want her to have a better life too - not one where she is constantly trying to avoid making normal sounds because it is distressing me.By the way, even I (living in Australia) have heard of UC and its Mind Institute. I have watched

quite a few videos of lectures at UC by world experts on autism and other conditions. It has a great reputation, as far as I can see from this side of the Pacific.>> Your daughter is so lucky. If you only heard the mean, degrading and demeaning things my mother said to me growing up....Ã‚ I had doctors look at me cross-eyed, like I was a retard... I never had any support, and my brother has it too but will never admit it. He still to this day will not tell my mom that I was telling the truth, he would just back out of every confrontation and then later on admit to me that he had the rage, too. Your daugther is very lucky. My niece is showing signs now, and my mom supports her.... it totally disgusts me and

makes me so ill that she was so mean to me, and so supportive of her., I don't know what it takes to get help, but I guess it's better late than never. Okay, my sob story is over... if you haven't noticed, I';m very, very bitter about 4S and it's impact on me.>

February 17, 2011

Yes Jim. Subject: Re: Re: CBT- Sensations vs ReactionsTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 11:53 AM

I agree with Tammy. I've done CBT, medication, you name it. The "physical" or neurological pain or whatever we want to call it iis still there. It still affects my relationships. I can't continually run away from everything in my life in order to have an area where I can exist without the trigger sounds.

I can avoid some things, breathe through others, talk myself through others, yadayadayada.......There are lots of ways to "cope" and endure the issue. However we describe it, the physical component is still there no matter how I mask it.

This is what I'm hearing and what I experience. Does this ring true for others?

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 9:38:54 AMSubject: Re: CBT- Sensations vs Reactions

I think you are right on track Tammy. In my stove top analogy, I was pin pointing the specific area of "after I have been burned", can CBT help me in that one specific area. What happens leading up to the burn, the actual moment of the burn it self, and the immediate reaction to the burn are completely different animals to deal with. Being new to the group and trying to learn all I can about this, I decided that I would initially focus on finding some relief for that one pin pointed area and it sounds like CBT can help. I'll dig deeper into looking for research on the initial events later, but on my initial scan of the information it seemed to me that getting control of the after events using CBT is something I can start right now. Maybe while I'm working on that and getting partial relief, which it sounds like it will take a lot of time to achieve, we will have that Oprah exposure which will lead to more research and answers on all of the events

happening before the area where I choose to put aloe on my burned finger instead of cutting my finger off :-) > >> > Your daughter is so lucky. If you only heard the mean, degrading and demeaning > >things my mother said to me growing up....Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ I had doctors look at me > >cross-eyed, like I was a retard... I never had any support, and my brother has > >it too but will never admit it. He still to this day will not tell my mom that I > >was telling the truth, he would just back out of every

confrontation and

then > >later on admit to me that he had the rage, too. Your daugther is very lucky. My > >niece is showing signs now, and my mom supports her.... it totally disgusts me > >and makes me so ill that she was so mean to me, and so supportive of her., I > >don't know what it takes to get help, but I guess it's better late than never. > >Okay, my sob story is over... if you haven't noticed, I';m very, very bitter > >about 4S and it's impact on me.> >>

February 17, 2011

Yes Jim. Subject: Re: Re: CBT- Sensations vs ReactionsTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 11:53 AM

I agree with Tammy. I've done CBT, medication, you name it. The "physical" or neurological pain or whatever we want to call it iis still there. It still affects my relationships. I can't continually run away from everything in my life in order to have an area where I can exist without the trigger sounds.

I can avoid some things, breathe through others, talk myself through others, yadayadayada.......There are lots of ways to "cope" and endure the issue. However we describe it, the physical component is still there no matter how I mask it.

This is what I'm hearing and what I experience. Does this ring true for others?

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 9:38:54 AMSubject: Re: CBT- Sensations vs Reactions

I think you are right on track Tammy. In my stove top analogy, I was pin pointing the specific area of "after I have been burned", can CBT help me in that one specific area. What happens leading up to the burn, the actual moment of the burn it self, and the immediate reaction to the burn are completely different animals to deal with. Being new to the group and trying to learn all I can about this, I decided that I would initially focus on finding some relief for that one pin pointed area and it sounds like CBT can help. I'll dig deeper into looking for research on the initial events later, but on my initial scan of the information it seemed to me that getting control of the after events using CBT is something I can start right now. Maybe while I'm working on that and getting partial relief, which it sounds like it will take a lot of time to achieve, we will have that Oprah exposure which will lead to more research and answers on all of the events

happening before the area where I choose to put aloe on my burned finger instead of cutting my finger off :-) > >> > Your daughter is so lucky. If you only heard the mean, degrading and demeaning > >things my mother said to me growing up....Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ I had doctors look at me > >cross-eyed, like I was a retard... I never had any support, and my brother has > >it too but will never admit it. He still to this day will not tell my mom that I > >was telling the truth, he would just back out of every

confrontation and

then > >later on admit to me that he had the rage, too. Your daugther is very lucky. My > >niece is showing signs now, and my mom supports her.... it totally disgusts me > >and makes me so ill that she was so mean to me, and so supportive of her., I > >don't know what it takes to get help, but I guess it's better late than never. > >Okay, my sob story is over... if you haven't noticed, I';m very, very bitter > >about 4S and it's impact on me.> >>

February 17, 2011

Yes Jim. Subject: Re: Re: CBT- Sensations vs ReactionsTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 11:53 AM

I agree with Tammy. I've done CBT, medication, you name it. The "physical" or neurological pain or whatever we want to call it iis still there. It still affects my relationships. I can't continually run away from everything in my life in order to have an area where I can exist without the trigger sounds.

I can avoid some things, breathe through others, talk myself through others, yadayadayada.......There are lots of ways to "cope" and endure the issue. However we describe it, the physical component is still there no matter how I mask it.

This is what I'm hearing and what I experience. Does this ring true for others?

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 9:38:54 AMSubject: Re: CBT- Sensations vs Reactions

I think you are right on track Tammy. In my stove top analogy, I was pin pointing the specific area of "after I have been burned", can CBT help me in that one specific area. What happens leading up to the burn, the actual moment of the burn it self, and the immediate reaction to the burn are completely different animals to deal with. Being new to the group and trying to learn all I can about this, I decided that I would initially focus on finding some relief for that one pin pointed area and it sounds like CBT can help. I'll dig deeper into looking for research on the initial events later, but on my initial scan of the information it seemed to me that getting control of the after events using CBT is something I can start right now. Maybe while I'm working on that and getting partial relief, which it sounds like it will take a lot of time to achieve, we will have that Oprah exposure which will lead to more research and answers on all of the events

happening before the area where I choose to put aloe on my burned finger instead of cutting my finger off :-) > >> > Your daughter is so lucky. If you only heard the mean, degrading and demeaning > >things my mother said to me growing up....Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ I had doctors look at me > >cross-eyed, like I was a retard... I never had any support, and my brother has > >it too but will never admit it. He still to this day will not tell my mom that I > >was telling the truth, he would just back out of every

confrontation and

then > >later on admit to me that he had the rage, too. Your daugther is very lucky. My > >niece is showing signs now, and my mom supports her.... it totally disgusts me > >and makes me so ill that she was so mean to me, and so supportive of her., I > >don't know what it takes to get help, but I guess it's better late than never. > >Okay, my sob story is over... if you haven't noticed, I';m very, very bitter > >about 4S and it's impact on me.> >>

February 17, 2011

Exactly. Dead center.Good always wins - so be good!!

I agree with Tammy. I've done CBT, medication, you name it. The "physical" or neurological pain or whatever we want to call it iis still there. It still affects my relationships. I can't continually run away from everything in my life in order to have an area where I can exist without the trigger sounds.

I can avoid some things, breathe through others, talk myself through others, yadayadayada.......There are lots of ways to "cope" and endure the issue. However we describe it, the physical component is still there no matter how I mask it.

This is what I'm hearing and what I experience. Does this ring true for others?

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 9:38:54 AMSubject: Re: CBT- Sensations vs Reactions

I think you are right on track Tammy. In my stove top analogy, I was pin pointing the specific area of "after I have been burned", can CBT help me in that one specific area. What happens leading up to the burn, the actual moment of the burn it self, and the immediate reaction to the burn are completely different animals to deal with. Being new to the group and trying to learn all I can about this, I decided that I would initially focus on finding some relief for that one pin pointed area and it sounds like CBT can help. I'll dig deeper into looking for research on the initial events later, but on my initial scan of the information it seemed to me that getting control of the after events using CBT is something I can start right now. Maybe while I'm working on that and getting partial relief, which it sounds like it will take a lot of time to achieve, we will have that Oprah exposure which will lead to more research and answers on all of the events

happening before the area where I choose to put aloe on my burned finger instead of cutting my finger off :-) > >> > Your daughter is so lucky. If you only heard the mean, degrading and demeaning > >things my mother said to me growing up....Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ I had doctors look at me > >cross-eyed, like I was a retard... I never had any support, and my brother has > >it too but will never admit it. He still to this day will not tell my mom that I > >was telling the truth, he would just back out of every confrontation and

then > >later on admit to me that he had the rage, too. Your daugther is very lucky. My > >niece is showing signs now, and my mom supports her.... it totally disgusts me > >and makes me so ill that she was so mean to me, and so supportive of her., I > >don't know what it takes to get help, but I guess it's better late than never. > >Okay, my sob story is over... if you haven't noticed, I';m very, very bitter > >about 4S and it's impact on me.> >>

February 17, 2011

Exactly. Dead center.Good always wins - so be good!!

I agree with Tammy. I've done CBT, medication, you name it. The "physical" or neurological pain or whatever we want to call it iis still there. It still affects my relationships. I can't continually run away from everything in my life in order to have an area where I can exist without the trigger sounds.

I can avoid some things, breathe through others, talk myself through others, yadayadayada.......There are lots of ways to "cope" and endure the issue. However we describe it, the physical component is still there no matter how I mask it.

This is what I'm hearing and what I experience. Does this ring true for others?

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 9:38:54 AMSubject: Re: CBT- Sensations vs Reactions

I think you are right on track Tammy. In my stove top analogy, I was pin pointing the specific area of "after I have been burned", can CBT help me in that one specific area. What happens leading up to the burn, the actual moment of the burn it self, and the immediate reaction to the burn are completely different animals to deal with. Being new to the group and trying to learn all I can about this, I decided that I would initially focus on finding some relief for that one pin pointed area and it sounds like CBT can help. I'll dig deeper into looking for research on the initial events later, but on my initial scan of the information it seemed to me that getting control of the after events using CBT is something I can start right now. Maybe while I'm working on that and getting partial relief, which it sounds like it will take a lot of time to achieve, we will have that Oprah exposure which will lead to more research and answers on all of the events

happening before the area where I choose to put aloe on my burned finger instead of cutting my finger off :-) > >> > Your daughter is so lucky. If you only heard the mean, degrading and demeaning > >things my mother said to me growing up....Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ I had doctors look at me > >cross-eyed, like I was a retard... I never had any support, and my brother has > >it too but will never admit it. He still to this day will not tell my mom that I > >was telling the truth, he would just back out of every confrontation and

then > >later on admit to me that he had the rage, too. Your daugther is very lucky. My > >niece is showing signs now, and my mom supports her.... it totally disgusts me > >and makes me so ill that she was so mean to me, and so supportive of her., I > >don't know what it takes to get help, but I guess it's better late than never. > >Okay, my sob story is over... if you haven't noticed, I';m very, very bitter > >about 4S and it's impact on me.> >>

February 17, 2011

Exactly. Dead center.Good always wins - so be good!!

I agree with Tammy. I've done CBT, medication, you name it. The "physical" or neurological pain or whatever we want to call it iis still there. It still affects my relationships. I can't continually run away from everything in my life in order to have an area where I can exist without the trigger sounds.

I can avoid some things, breathe through others, talk myself through others, yadayadayada.......There are lots of ways to "cope" and endure the issue. However we describe it, the physical component is still there no matter how I mask it.

This is what I'm hearing and what I experience. Does this ring true for others?

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 9:38:54 AMSubject: Re: CBT- Sensations vs Reactions

I think you are right on track Tammy. In my stove top analogy, I was pin pointing the specific area of "after I have been burned", can CBT help me in that one specific area. What happens leading up to the burn, the actual moment of the burn it self, and the immediate reaction to the burn are completely different animals to deal with. Being new to the group and trying to learn all I can about this, I decided that I would initially focus on finding some relief for that one pin pointed area and it sounds like CBT can help. I'll dig deeper into looking for research on the initial events later, but on my initial scan of the information it seemed to me that getting control of the after events using CBT is something I can start right now. Maybe while I'm working on that and getting partial relief, which it sounds like it will take a lot of time to achieve, we will have that Oprah exposure which will lead to more research and answers on all of the events

happening before the area where I choose to put aloe on my burned finger instead of cutting my finger off :-) > >> > Your daughter is so lucky. If you only heard the mean, degrading and demeaning > >things my mother said to me growing up....Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ I had doctors look at me > >cross-eyed, like I was a retard... I never had any support, and my brother has > >it too but will never admit it. He still to this day will not tell my mom that I > >was telling the truth, he would just back out of every confrontation and

then > >later on admit to me that he had the rage, too. Your daugther is very lucky. My > >niece is showing signs now, and my mom supports her.... it totally disgusts me > >and makes me so ill that she was so mean to me, and so supportive of her., I > >don't know what it takes to get help, but I guess it's better late than never. > >Okay, my sob story is over... if you haven't noticed, I';m very, very bitter > >about 4S and it's impact on me.> >>

February 17, 2011

I find that is a very useful way to describe what we have to put up with.

"You've seen Star Wars? You know how Darth Vader breathes? That's what I hear - in varying degrees - from everybody"

Has had an impact at times , Hull.

To: Soundsensitivity From: tgcase1@...Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 08:08:53 -0800Subject: Re: CBT- Sensations vs Reactions

BTW- I just noticed that "4-S" read aloud together says "Force". haha. Use the Force, Luke! Ah the jokes to come...I will relish making them. Can you imagine if Darth Vader was your dad and you had to listen to that ventilator day in and day out? No wonder Luke was in denial. Noooo!!!!!!!!

Tammy

February 17, 2011

I find that is a very useful way to describe what we have to put up with.

"You've seen Star Wars? You know how Darth Vader breathes? That's what I hear - in varying degrees - from everybody"

Has had an impact at times , Hull.

To: Soundsensitivity From: tgcase1@...Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 08:08:53 -0800Subject: Re: CBT- Sensations vs Reactions

BTW- I just noticed that "4-S" read aloud together says "Force". haha. Use the Force, Luke! Ah the jokes to come...I will relish making them. Can you imagine if Darth Vader was your dad and you had to listen to that ventilator day in and day out? No wonder Luke was in denial. Noooo!!!!!!!!

Tammy

February 17, 2011

So everyone else has gone to the Dark Side!.. I thought so.To: soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 3:36:26 PMSubject: RE: CBT- Sensations vs Reactions

I find that is a very useful way to describe what we have to put up with.

"You've seen Star Wars? You know how Darth Vader breathes? That's what I hear - in varying degrees - from everybody"

Has had an impact at times , Hull.

To: Soundsensitivity From: tgcase1@...Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 08:08:53 -0800Subject: Re: CBT- Sensations vs Reactions

BTW- I just noticed that "4-S" read aloud together says "Force". haha. Use the Force, Luke! Ah the jokes to come...I will relish making them. Can you imagine if Darth Vader was your dad and you had to listen to that ventilator day in and day out? No wonder Luke was in denial. Noooo!!!!!!!!

Tammy

February 17, 2011

So everyone else has gone to the Dark Side!.. I thought so.To: soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 3:36:26 PMSubject: RE: CBT- Sensations vs Reactions

I find that is a very useful way to describe what we have to put up with.

"You've seen Star Wars? You know how Darth Vader breathes? That's what I hear - in varying degrees - from everybody"

Has had an impact at times , Hull.

To: Soundsensitivity From: tgcase1@...Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 08:08:53 -0800Subject: Re: CBT- Sensations vs Reactions

BTW- I just noticed that "4-S" read aloud together says "Force". haha. Use the Force, Luke! Ah the jokes to come...I will relish making them. Can you imagine if Darth Vader was your dad and you had to listen to that ventilator day in and day out? No wonder Luke was in denial. Noooo!!!!!!!!

Tammy

February 17, 2011

So everyone else has gone to the Dark Side!.. I thought so.To: soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 3:36:26 PMSubject: RE: CBT- Sensations vs Reactions

I find that is a very useful way to describe what we have to put up with.

"You've seen Star Wars? You know how Darth Vader breathes? That's what I hear - in varying degrees - from everybody"

Has had an impact at times , Hull.

To: Soundsensitivity From: tgcase1@...Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 08:08:53 -0800Subject: Re: CBT- Sensations vs Reactions

BTW- I just noticed that "4-S" read aloud together says "Force". haha. Use the Force, Luke! Ah the jokes to come...I will relish making them. Can you imagine if Darth Vader was your dad and you had to listen to that ventilator day in and day out? No wonder Luke was in denial. Noooo!!!!!!!!

Tammy

February 17, 2011

Hi Thanks for bringing up OCD. Interesting they are finding that maybe a certain amount of biological tendency can in some cases be undone, with Ocd for example the brain is much more plastic than they used to think."In a series of experiments, for instance, Schwartz and colleagues at the University of California, Los Angeles, found that cognitive behavior therapy (CBT) can quiet activity in the circuit that underlies obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), just as drugs do.... Before-and-after brain scans showed that activity in the orbital frontal cortex, the core of the OCD circuit, had fallen dramatically and in exactly the way that drugs effective against OCD affect the brain. Schwartz called it "self-directed neuroplasticity," concluding that "the mind can change the

brain.""http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1580438-1,00.htmlTo: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 2:10:59 PMSubject: RE: CBT- Sensations vs Reactions

Maikaefer, I'm so glad you brought up the biological aspect of this. I'm convinced, especially from my knowledge of differences in the brain detected by PET scans in people with OCD, that 4S could also have a similar biological root cause. My son has both OCD and 4S, hence my knowledge of OCD (and suspicions of how they might be related in some cases). Also, there is also the article about lack of "sound gating" capabilities that was found with MEG (similar to EEG) testing with repeating clicking sounds on people with Schizophrenia (I previously posted a link) that shows a biological difference in their brains' responses to the clicking (not to imply 4S is related to Schizophrenia), but there could be something similar going on in the brains of those with 4S. And there's the genetic factor that seems to be a common theme here, so all of this, in my opinion, shows there is a biological/physiological basis for 4S, or at least for the tendancy towards 4S.

Then, if that biological tendancy is there, someone would much more easily start to be triggered at some point in their life (or at some point in their brain development), such as by people they are with a lot (family) and therefore the sounds those people make are recurring or repetitive (like in the testing above for clicking noises). Add to that the primitive emotional part of the brain's ability to remember emotional reactions/feelings to things that our conscious brain often does not remember, and then when something similar happens again, that primitive part of the brain "remembers" to react the same way to the similar event or in this case, trigger (and we are only able to more-or-less control our conscious brain). It gets so compounded, that it's then difficult to undo everything . . . and that's where CBT might come in (as well as the other great suggestions on this board), where "re-training" the conscious brain over time can eventually overwrite some of the memories of the primitive brain, but unfortunately probably can not undo the underlying biological tendancy towards 4S. Of course this is all just my theory, but still food for thought.

From: Soundsensitivity [mailto:Soundsensitivity ] On Behalf Of maikaeferSent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 7:02 AMTo: Soundsensitivity Subject: Re: CBT- Sensations vs Reactions

I think so too. And its important to remember our brain has not finished fully developing until like 22 years of age. So as children the more primitive emotional centers (amydala/limbic) bottom-up reactive parts of the brain are dominant. Once we our prefrontal cortex is farther along, we can consciously regulate thoughts and behavior to achieve goals from the top down and yes even change formerly bottom-up emotional reactions or at least try, its not easy. It's all very biological actually.

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 8:21:48 AMSubject: Re: CBT- Sensations vs Reactions

I just see it that we live in a body and when we are effected by external stimuli it has physical, mental, emotional and spiritual manifestations. They are all interelated. Sounds and sights come in through my eyes and ears and I have a physical and emotional reaction. There is no separating any of them.

Subject: CBT- Sensations vs ReactionsTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 6:04 AM

From reading this particular thread in one sitting, I see two different conversations. On one hand, some people are talking about 4s purely as a reactionary issue-how we 'feel (emotionally) and respond'. On the other hand, there are people talking about how we feel (physically). For my two cents, let me say this: I can understand both sides. I can see how we choose to react is in our control as the power of positive vs negative thinking. I really like the analogy of touching the hot burner. However, untouched in the analogy is the fact that, reaction or not, you're still physically burned. Whether you choose to react with happy thoughts or death threats, your skin is scorched. That's where this whole idea of breathing through it, basically, loses me. Yes, there are things I can do, steps I can take to help alleviate the pain so that I can tolerate bad triggers but as I force myself to breathe through the pain (so to speak), I am still Feeling (phyiscally if not emotionally) the pain. It just plain hurts. like touching a hot stove. It hurts. What about that? Whether I find a coping mechanism or not, it still frickin' HURTS on a neurological level. It hurts! So...I would like to side with the 'don't Tell me it's all in my head' camp on this one because no matter how positive I try to stay, and no matter how long I train myself to endure the situation, that's all I'm doing is enduring. I'm getting through it, yes, but the pain IS there. So...I don't know if there was really a point I was trying to make in all that. Make of this what you will. My thoughts.

Tammy

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 7:17:02 AMSubject: Re: CBT

Yes, this often runs in families. One of my two daughters has it, the other is completely free of it. I rather suspect that it is a genetic, neurological problem at its deepest level, with lots of bad learning experiences laid on top of that.I have been married 27 years and my wife is my primary trigger person. Early on in the marriage I had to explain to her that I had the same intense reaction to eating sounds when I was a teenager living with my parents. She tries to minimise the amount of triggers, and doesn't take my reaction personally - she understands that I am just reacting to the sounds, and not to her as a person.When I discovered this site and all the fantastic information about 4S/misophonia on the web - like this video on YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIhoEtlgiyII put together a set of materials, sat down with my wife, and showed it to her, so that she could watch the video and read Dr 's excellent article:http://audiology.advanceweb.com/Article/Selective-Sound-Sensitivity-Syndrome.aspxand several other pieces of information.This helped confirm to her that I was not being deliberately unpleasant or mean, but that I had an unusual, but real, condition that I could not simply "switch off".Since then I have found an excellent psychologist with experience of sensory sensitivity problems, and he has started taking me through CBT (and some newer therapies like "mindfulness" and "dialectical behaviour therapy"). He fully recognises that the initial reaction needn't come from conscious thought - he used the example of distance runners learning to tolerate pain. The pain is physical and real - not the result of "wrong thinking" - but you _can_ learn to control it and extend yourself by learning to control your attention and your thinking.So, like Maikaefer, I agree with you that negative feelings can come from other places besides our thoughts, but that doesn't mean our thoughts cannot "fight back" and get some real control of our feelings. It may not be total control (someone may always catch us off-guard), but it can mean a much better life.I really do hope that, armed with knowledge now, you will be able to build a relationship with your husband that is stringer than 4S, and also hopefully find someone who can help you get the mind skills to manage the 4S distress as well as you possibly can. Perhaps if you tell your husband that you care about him so much that you want to do whatever you can to get greater control of your 4S, it will help. I am doing the CBT as much for my wife's sake as for my own. I want her to have a better life too - not one where she is constantly trying to avoid making normal sounds because it is distressing me.By the way, even I (living in Australia) have heard of UC and its Mind Institute. I have watched quite a few videos of lectures at UC by world experts on autism and other conditions. It has a great reputation, as far as I can see from this side of the Pacific.>> Your daughter is so lucky. If you only heard the mean, degrading and demeaning things my mother said to me growing up....Ã‚ I had doctors look at me cross-eyed, like I was a retard... I never had any support, and my brother has it too but will never admit it. He still to this day will not tell my mom that I was telling the truth, he would just back out of every confrontation and then later on admit to me that he had the rage, too. Your daugther is very lucky. My niece is showing signs now, and my mom supports her.... it totally disgusts me and makes me so ill that she was so mean to me, and so supportive of her., I don't know what it takes to get help, but I guess it's better late than never. Okay, my sob story is over... if you haven't noticed, I';m very, very bitter about 4S and it's impact on me.>

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