Re: apology ----Long but important !

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/18/2003 9:27:26 AM Central Standard Time,

sherryscreations2@... writes:

> I will, as SO many others do....just " lurk " from now on.

> Apparently my imput is not very valuable to this list.

Not true ... your input is very valued! We perhaps did read into the email

what was not intended.

You've been a wonderful resource on lip balms and many other discussions.

Please continue to participate.

-

[Guest guest]

Pat

Most certainly, I will apologize to Maurice. I certainly was

NOT " bashing you " , nor did I mean to have it interpreted that way.

I meant NO offense to you personally, and in fact, I have posted to

this list MANY times that your advise is " invaluable " , and how much

we appreciate, the time and effort, you take with this list.

What I " meant " was...I would like to see others on this list join in

on the discussions, give some information, provide some advise

beacause I know there are others on this list, who, are also well

informed and could have some valuable imput, so that Maurice does not

have to answer ALL the questions, all the time.

As far as preservatives are concerned...

Pat, you know that I advocate the use of synthetic preservatives when

necessary, in all products sold to the public and those of you who

have read my E-books, know that I " strongly " advise the use of

synthetic preservatives in any retail sales! AND I also state all the

FDA rules and regulations pertinent to the safety of the public,

labeling, etc etc etc.

I did not wish to debate preservative [ and get into the ad nausum

natural vs synthetic issues again] use but only to state that it

should not be " required " in a lip balm, which is made with all

oils/butters, but a use of an antioxidant should be used, BECAUSE

There are many people that are very allergic to " parabens " in some

oil type preservatives that could possibly do more harm than good. I

am sorry if my statement is not allowed on this list but I have

hundreds of people that testified to this fact when I was selling

products. It was not " my opinion " , but a fact that was presented to

me from users of commerical lip balms that contained presrevatives.

And it is a fact that synthetics are a new to the last century and

thus the effects over long term use with regards to the skin are not

well studied or documented. At least I have found no documentation.

And it is a fact, supported by documented evidence, that may people

have sensitive skin and many synthetic preservatives cause them to

have sever allergic reations.

And it is a fact that the FDA is looking into this issue.

And it is a fact that there are no known natural preservatives that

are as effective as synthetic preservatives in the long run.

THUS we have a delima for the skin sensitive people out there who can

not use a synthetic preservative, do we not....and maybe there are

others on this list who are knowledgeable in this area, who might

provide some imput ?????

I did NOT mean to be offensive when I asked for other's to contribute

to this list, and to get others involved, who may be very

knowledgeable, may be chemists, may be a qulaified source of

information thus far not pressented. I was not asking for " opinions "

but for others to contribute their knowlege.

I will, as SO many others do....just " lurk " from now on.

Apparently my imput is not very valuable to this list.

And I do not mind lurking either, because I too, have learned a great

deal from this list, from Maurice, , Pat, Angie, Marge, and some

others who have donated their knowledge to this list.

Sherry

[Guest guest]

> What I " meant " was...I would like to see others on this list join in

> on the discussions, give some information, provide some advise

> beacause I know there are others on this list, who, are also well

> informed and could have some valuable imput, so that Maurice does not

> have to answer ALL the questions, all the time.

I agree, and I have asked members that have been taught by Maurice and the

other chemists to participate. If you recall, I have told members several

times not to send mail to the list directed at a specific chemist so that

the membership do not feel left out and stop answering questions.

> I did not wish to debate preservative [ and get into the ad nausum

> natural vs synthetic issues again] use but only to state that it

> should not be " required " in a lip balm, which is made with all

> oils/butters, but a use of an antioxidant should be used, BECAUSE

> There are many people that are very allergic to " parabens " in some

> oil type preservatives that could possibly do more harm than good.

As far as I can tell it is not required in a lip balm. Recommended, yes,

required, no. I don't use a preservative in lip balm or lotion bars. Maurice

and I disagree on that, but I don't make an issue of it on the list. And to

be honest with you if I were new to the list and wanted to learn, I would

listen more to what Maurice said than to what Pat said, because Maurice is

the expert, Pat just owns the list. The little bit I do know about making

toiletries I learned most of it from Maurice and the rest from a few other

chemists.

I

> am sorry if my statement is not allowed on this list but I have

> hundreds of people that testified to this fact when I was selling

> products. It was not " my opinion " , but a fact that was presented to

> me from users of commerical lip balms that contained presrevatives.

Sherry, it was not what you said, but rather the way that you said it that

bothered me and several other list members. I agree that many times with

email our true feeling do not come across and what we write can easily be

misunderstood. Since Maurice has taken no offense the point is mute.

> THUS we have a delima for the skin sensitive people out there who can

> not use a synthetic preservative, do we not....and maybe there are

> others on this list who are knowledgeable in this area, who might

> provide some imput ?????

Sherry, there will always be people that are allergic to something, whether

synthetic or natural. We have to live with them and they have to live with

us. There are also those that convince themselves that they are allergic to

something and will have all the symptoms, but it is in the mind and not the

body.

> I did NOT mean to be offensive when I asked for other's to contribute

> to this list, and to get others involved, who may be very

> knowledgeable, may be chemists, may be a qulaified source of

> information thus far not pressented. I was not asking for " opinions "

> but for others to contribute their knowlege.

You can start by contributing your knowledge. I am usually happy to read

your contributions.

> I will, as SO many others do....just " lurk " from now on.

> Apparently my imput is not very valuable to this list.

On the contrary. The list needs more natural leaning people that have the

courage to stand up and say that they are natural to a point, but they put

their customers health before profit, so they will use a synthetic

preservative if needed. We need people to say that some day we will have a

natural preservative that is effective and is easily used, because if we

don't, the chemists will stop looking.

Pat.

Peace, Joy, Serenity

House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc.

pat@...

http://www.houseofscents.com/

[Guest guest]

> What I " meant " was...I would like to see others on this list join in

> on the discussions, give some information, provide some advise

> beacause I know there are others on this list, who, are also well

> informed and could have some valuable imput, so that Maurice does not

> have to answer ALL the questions, all the time.

I agree, and I have asked members that have been taught by Maurice and the

other chemists to participate. If you recall, I have told members several

times not to send mail to the list directed at a specific chemist so that

the membership do not feel left out and stop answering questions.

> I did not wish to debate preservative [ and get into the ad nausum

> natural vs synthetic issues again] use but only to state that it

> should not be " required " in a lip balm, which is made with all

> oils/butters, but a use of an antioxidant should be used, BECAUSE

> There are many people that are very allergic to " parabens " in some

> oil type preservatives that could possibly do more harm than good.

As far as I can tell it is not required in a lip balm. Recommended, yes,

required, no. I don't use a preservative in lip balm or lotion bars. Maurice

and I disagree on that, but I don't make an issue of it on the list. And to

be honest with you if I were new to the list and wanted to learn, I would

listen more to what Maurice said than to what Pat said, because Maurice is

the expert, Pat just owns the list. The little bit I do know about making

toiletries I learned most of it from Maurice and the rest from a few other

chemists.

I

> am sorry if my statement is not allowed on this list but I have

> hundreds of people that testified to this fact when I was selling

> products. It was not " my opinion " , but a fact that was presented to

> me from users of commerical lip balms that contained presrevatives.

Sherry, it was not what you said, but rather the way that you said it that

bothered me and several other list members. I agree that many times with

email our true feeling do not come across and what we write can easily be

misunderstood. Since Maurice has taken no offense the point is mute.

> THUS we have a delima for the skin sensitive people out there who can

> not use a synthetic preservative, do we not....and maybe there are

> others on this list who are knowledgeable in this area, who might

> provide some imput ?????

Sherry, there will always be people that are allergic to something, whether

synthetic or natural. We have to live with them and they have to live with

us. There are also those that convince themselves that they are allergic to

something and will have all the symptoms, but it is in the mind and not the

body.

> I did NOT mean to be offensive when I asked for other's to contribute

> to this list, and to get others involved, who may be very

> knowledgeable, may be chemists, may be a qulaified source of

> information thus far not pressented. I was not asking for " opinions "

> but for others to contribute their knowlege.

You can start by contributing your knowledge. I am usually happy to read

your contributions.

> I will, as SO many others do....just " lurk " from now on.

> Apparently my imput is not very valuable to this list.

On the contrary. The list needs more natural leaning people that have the

courage to stand up and say that they are natural to a point, but they put

their customers health before profit, so they will use a synthetic

preservative if needed. We need people to say that some day we will have a

natural preservative that is effective and is easily used, because if we

don't, the chemists will stop looking.

Pat.

Peace, Joy, Serenity

House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc.

pat@...

http://www.houseofscents.com/

[Guest guest]

> What I " meant " was...I would like to see others on this list join in

> on the discussions, give some information, provide some advise

> beacause I know there are others on this list, who, are also well

> informed and could have some valuable imput, so that Maurice does not

> have to answer ALL the questions, all the time.

I agree, and I have asked members that have been taught by Maurice and the

other chemists to participate. If you recall, I have told members several

times not to send mail to the list directed at a specific chemist so that

the membership do not feel left out and stop answering questions.

> I did not wish to debate preservative [ and get into the ad nausum

> natural vs synthetic issues again] use but only to state that it

> should not be " required " in a lip balm, which is made with all

> oils/butters, but a use of an antioxidant should be used, BECAUSE

> There are many people that are very allergic to " parabens " in some

> oil type preservatives that could possibly do more harm than good.

As far as I can tell it is not required in a lip balm. Recommended, yes,

required, no. I don't use a preservative in lip balm or lotion bars. Maurice

and I disagree on that, but I don't make an issue of it on the list. And to

be honest with you if I were new to the list and wanted to learn, I would

listen more to what Maurice said than to what Pat said, because Maurice is

the expert, Pat just owns the list. The little bit I do know about making

toiletries I learned most of it from Maurice and the rest from a few other

chemists.

I

> am sorry if my statement is not allowed on this list but I have

> hundreds of people that testified to this fact when I was selling

> products. It was not " my opinion " , but a fact that was presented to

> me from users of commerical lip balms that contained presrevatives.

Sherry, it was not what you said, but rather the way that you said it that

bothered me and several other list members. I agree that many times with

email our true feeling do not come across and what we write can easily be

misunderstood. Since Maurice has taken no offense the point is mute.

> THUS we have a delima for the skin sensitive people out there who can

> not use a synthetic preservative, do we not....and maybe there are

> others on this list who are knowledgeable in this area, who might

> provide some imput ?????

Sherry, there will always be people that are allergic to something, whether

synthetic or natural. We have to live with them and they have to live with

us. There are also those that convince themselves that they are allergic to

something and will have all the symptoms, but it is in the mind and not the

body.

> I did NOT mean to be offensive when I asked for other's to contribute

> to this list, and to get others involved, who may be very

> knowledgeable, may be chemists, may be a qulaified source of

> information thus far not pressented. I was not asking for " opinions "

> but for others to contribute their knowlege.

You can start by contributing your knowledge. I am usually happy to read

your contributions.

> I will, as SO many others do....just " lurk " from now on.

> Apparently my imput is not very valuable to this list.

On the contrary. The list needs more natural leaning people that have the

courage to stand up and say that they are natural to a point, but they put

their customers health before profit, so they will use a synthetic

preservative if needed. We need people to say that some day we will have a

natural preservative that is effective and is easily used, because if we

don't, the chemists will stop looking.

Pat.

Peace, Joy, Serenity

House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc.

pat@...

http://www.houseofscents.com/

[Guest guest]

Pat...Thank you for understanding that I meant no offense to Maurice.

Maruice is and always has been a learned scholar and he knows how

much I appreciate his advise, even when it is contractatory to

my " natural ways " .

I am sorry others took offense, for it was not meant to be offensive,

so I will try to " word " my posts more carefully so as not be appear

brash or offensive to anyone.

But I DO think this is a common thing in any group that people take

offense when none is intented and it is impossible to know the

person's intent if it is not clearly stated.

Again, I would like to see contributions from the many knowledgeable

people on this group who do have valuable imput but do not post for

some reason or other.

And I do need a long vacation, so will be back next year.

Happy Holidays to all

Sherry

[Guest guest]

Pat...Thank you for understanding that I meant no offense to Maurice.

Maruice is and always has been a learned scholar and he knows how

much I appreciate his advise, even when it is contractatory to

my " natural ways " .

I am sorry others took offense, for it was not meant to be offensive,

so I will try to " word " my posts more carefully so as not be appear

brash or offensive to anyone.

But I DO think this is a common thing in any group that people take

offense when none is intented and it is impossible to know the

person's intent if it is not clearly stated.

Again, I would like to see contributions from the many knowledgeable

people on this group who do have valuable imput but do not post for

some reason or other.

And I do need a long vacation, so will be back next year.

Happy Holidays to all

Sherry

[Guest guest]

Pat...Thank you for understanding that I meant no offense to Maurice.

Maruice is and always has been a learned scholar and he knows how

much I appreciate his advise, even when it is contractatory to

my " natural ways " .

I am sorry others took offense, for it was not meant to be offensive,

so I will try to " word " my posts more carefully so as not be appear

brash or offensive to anyone.

But I DO think this is a common thing in any group that people take

offense when none is intented and it is impossible to know the

person's intent if it is not clearly stated.

Again, I would like to see contributions from the many knowledgeable

people on this group who do have valuable imput but do not post for

some reason or other.

And I do need a long vacation, so will be back next year.

Happy Holidays to all

Sherry