Re: anhydrous shine problem

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

>

>

> I'd thought Hydrolyzed Oat Flour was in form of " clear " liquid but is in the

>

> form of off-white powder (thanks, ) ... I am trying to understand this

> ingredient and how it might help a few of my formulas.

I'll respond to your questions regarding The Herbarie's VenaSilk. There are

other types of hydrolyzed oat flour.

>

> Apparently much " finer " than finely ground whole-oat flour ...

> Would this disperse properly in a lipid phase and stay suspended?

> Can it reduce " shine " typical in an anhydrous formula and also help hold the

>

> moisture without making skin flaky like " oil-absorbant " formulas do?

VenaSilk is not oil soluble. It's soluble in water and glycerin. You cannot

use it anhydrous formulations...at least I don't recommend it

>

> I've also considered the tapioca-starch product for this, but don't know ...

>

> I don't need to lose all the " shine, " but to make this one sellable, I do

> need to reduce it to more of a " glow " Suggestions ????

, I'm not sure if I'm following you here. There are so many tapioca

starch products that it can be confusing. I had a conversation with a fellow at

National Starch the other day in regards to Natrasorb Bath and Natrasorb W and

Natrasorb HFB. They are no longer making Natrasorb W. The other two will

encapsulate oils into a powder form for various applications. He recommended

using the Natrasorb Bath in a leave-on product, such as a bath powder, but I

haven't tried it and it seemed to me like it would not be desirable in a

leave-on

(The Herbarie sells Natrasorb Bath as NatraBath). I think Natrasorb HFB

would be the most desirable for encapsulating oils for a leave-on product. Now,

Dry Flo AF is a nice additive for anhydrous formulations to improve the feel.

This is not tapioca starch though, it's a modified corn starch. I think this

is available from a small supplier, but I'm not sure which one. You could

conduct a search. Then there is the Tapioca Pure from National Starch which is

recommended for use in body powders.

>

> >Hydrolyzed Oat Flour:

> >Oil-like properties

> >Suspension properties

> >Emulsion stabilizing properties

> >Tactile Properties

> >Silicon replacement

> >Synergistic thickening properties

> >In skin care, HOF imparts a luxurious emolliency and silky feel to lotions

> and creams and also provides added stability and viscosity. HOF can also

> been

> used in hair care formulas to create silky feeling shampoos. Usage Rate:

> .5%-2%. Physical Form: Off-white Powder, Odorless >>>

>

> What are the Oil-like properties?

> Does it contain any of the beta glucan?

, I'm not sure of the source of this info, but VenaSilk contains around

5% beta glucan. The oil like properties that you refer to are mostly in feel.

VenaSilk has an emollient feel in emulsions.

>

> THANK YOU for all your help (I need it) !!!

You're welcome

Angie

The Herbarie

Natural Source Ingredients for Toiletries & Cosmetics

http://www.theherbarie.com

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

>

>

> I'd thought Hydrolyzed Oat Flour was in form of " clear " liquid but is in the

>

> form of off-white powder (thanks, ) ... I am trying to understand this

> ingredient and how it might help a few of my formulas.

I'll respond to your questions regarding The Herbarie's VenaSilk. There are

other types of hydrolyzed oat flour.

>

> Apparently much " finer " than finely ground whole-oat flour ...

> Would this disperse properly in a lipid phase and stay suspended?

> Can it reduce " shine " typical in an anhydrous formula and also help hold the

>

> moisture without making skin flaky like " oil-absorbant " formulas do?

VenaSilk is not oil soluble. It's soluble in water and glycerin. You cannot

use it anhydrous formulations...at least I don't recommend it

>

> I've also considered the tapioca-starch product for this, but don't know ...

>

> I don't need to lose all the " shine, " but to make this one sellable, I do

> need to reduce it to more of a " glow " Suggestions ????

, I'm not sure if I'm following you here. There are so many tapioca

starch products that it can be confusing. I had a conversation with a fellow at

National Starch the other day in regards to Natrasorb Bath and Natrasorb W and

Natrasorb HFB. They are no longer making Natrasorb W. The other two will

encapsulate oils into a powder form for various applications. He recommended

using the Natrasorb Bath in a leave-on product, such as a bath powder, but I

haven't tried it and it seemed to me like it would not be desirable in a

leave-on

(The Herbarie sells Natrasorb Bath as NatraBath). I think Natrasorb HFB

would be the most desirable for encapsulating oils for a leave-on product. Now,

Dry Flo AF is a nice additive for anhydrous formulations to improve the feel.

This is not tapioca starch though, it's a modified corn starch. I think this

is available from a small supplier, but I'm not sure which one. You could

conduct a search. Then there is the Tapioca Pure from National Starch which is

recommended for use in body powders.

>

> >Hydrolyzed Oat Flour:

> >Oil-like properties

> >Suspension properties

> >Emulsion stabilizing properties

> >Tactile Properties

> >Silicon replacement

> >Synergistic thickening properties

> >In skin care, HOF imparts a luxurious emolliency and silky feel to lotions

> and creams and also provides added stability and viscosity. HOF can also

> been

> used in hair care formulas to create silky feeling shampoos. Usage Rate:

> .5%-2%. Physical Form: Off-white Powder, Odorless >>>

>

> What are the Oil-like properties?

> Does it contain any of the beta glucan?

, I'm not sure of the source of this info, but VenaSilk contains around

5% beta glucan. The oil like properties that you refer to are mostly in feel.

VenaSilk has an emollient feel in emulsions.

>

> THANK YOU for all your help (I need it) !!!

You're welcome

Angie

The Herbarie

Natural Source Ingredients for Toiletries & Cosmetics

http://www.theherbarie.com

[Guest guest]

> Please bear with me a bit, as Angie answered a lot about this for

me, but now

> I have other questions (and renewed interest) ...

>

> I'd thought Hydrolyzed Oat Flour was in form of " clear " liquid but

is in the

> form of off-white powder (thanks, ) ... I am trying to

understand this

> ingredient and how it might help a few of my formulas.

>

> Apparently much " finer " than finely ground whole-oat flour ...

> Would this disperse properly in a lipid phase and stay suspended?

> Can it reduce " shine " typical in an anhydrous formula and also

help hold the

> moisture without making skin flaky like " oil-absorbant " formulas

do?

>

> I've also considered the tapioca-starch product for this, but

don't know ...

> I don't need to lose all the " shine, " but to make this one

sellable, I do

> need to reduce it to more of a " glow " Suggestions ????

>

> >Hydrolyzed Oat Flour:

> >Oil-like properties

> >Suspension properties

> >Emulsion stabilizing properties

> >Tactile Properties

> >Silicon replacement

> >Synergistic thickening properties

> >In skin care, HOF imparts a luxurious emolliency and silky feel

to lotions

> and creams and also provides added stability and viscosity.  HOF

can also been

> used in hair care formulas to create silky feeling shampoos. Usage

Rate:

> .5%-2%.  Physical Form: Off-white Powder, Odorless >>>

>

> What are the Oil-like properties?

> Does it contain any of the beta glucan?

>

> THANK YOU for all your help (I need it) !!!

>

> -

Hi ,

Yes, the HOF is in feel. It has a gorgeous feel on the skin and the

Beta Glucan percentage is approx. 5% (give or take alittle...it's

never a precise number). Although usage rate can go as high as 5%,

the manufacturer " typical " usage rate is up to 2% thus lowering the

cost of your formula and still getting the gorgeous feel of HOF.

This ingredient can be incorporated into the water phase but it is

recommended that that you heat up a little bit of water or propylene

Glycol or glycerin to approx. 80F-90F. Disperse for 5 to 10 minutes

then incorporate it into your emulsion in your cool down phase or

once you have an emulsion. It is pretty easy to work with and the

feel is wonderful.

Sincerely,

Di

[Guest guest]

> Please bear with me a bit, as Angie answered a lot about this for

me, but now

> I have other questions (and renewed interest) ...

>

> I'd thought Hydrolyzed Oat Flour was in form of " clear " liquid but

is in the

> form of off-white powder (thanks, ) ... I am trying to

understand this

> ingredient and how it might help a few of my formulas.

>

> Apparently much " finer " than finely ground whole-oat flour ...

> Would this disperse properly in a lipid phase and stay suspended?

> Can it reduce " shine " typical in an anhydrous formula and also

help hold the

> moisture without making skin flaky like " oil-absorbant " formulas

do?

>

> I've also considered the tapioca-starch product for this, but

don't know ...

> I don't need to lose all the " shine, " but to make this one

sellable, I do

> need to reduce it to more of a " glow " Suggestions ????

>

> >Hydrolyzed Oat Flour:

> >Oil-like properties

> >Suspension properties

> >Emulsion stabilizing properties

> >Tactile Properties

> >Silicon replacement

> >Synergistic thickening properties

> >In skin care, HOF imparts a luxurious emolliency and silky feel

to lotions

> and creams and also provides added stability and viscosity.  HOF

can also been

> used in hair care formulas to create silky feeling shampoos. Usage

Rate:

> .5%-2%.  Physical Form: Off-white Powder, Odorless >>>

>

> What are the Oil-like properties?

> Does it contain any of the beta glucan?

>

> THANK YOU for all your help (I need it) !!!

>

> -

Hi ,

Yes, the HOF is in feel. It has a gorgeous feel on the skin and the

Beta Glucan percentage is approx. 5% (give or take alittle...it's

never a precise number). Although usage rate can go as high as 5%,

the manufacturer " typical " usage rate is up to 2% thus lowering the

cost of your formula and still getting the gorgeous feel of HOF.

This ingredient can be incorporated into the water phase but it is

recommended that that you heat up a little bit of water or propylene

Glycol or glycerin to approx. 80F-90F. Disperse for 5 to 10 minutes

then incorporate it into your emulsion in your cool down phase or

once you have an emulsion. It is pretty easy to work with and the

feel is wonderful.

Sincerely,

Di

[Guest guest]

> Please bear with me a bit, as Angie answered a lot about this for

me, but now

> Apparently much " finer " than finely ground whole-oat flour ...

> Would this disperse properly in a lipid phase and stay suspended?

> Can it reduce " shine " typical in an anhydrous formula and also

help hold the

> moisture without making skin flaky like " oil-absorbant " formulas

do?

>

> I've also considered the tapioca-starch product for this, but

don't know ...

> I don't need to lose all the " shine, " but to make this one

sellable, I do

> need to reduce it to more of a " glow " Suggestions ????

> I have other questions (and renewed interest) ...

> -

Now for answering these questions HOF is to be dispersed into

the water phase not the oil phase as I mentioned in my previous

post.

It sounds like you are looking for an ingredient for oily skin but

that it won't dry your skin out at the same time. As Angie

mentioned, Dry Flo AF, (in my opinion) is one of the best choices.

I just put together a formula incorporating Dry Flo AF and the HOF

and it's gorgeous! If you stick to the recommended usage rates you

will do great! I'll give you an example. Let's say you use 3% Dry

Flo AF in your formula. Use 3 or 4% Propylene Glycol to disperse

your DF powder then incorporate it into your emulsion. It will

almost look like a paste, but make sure you disperse it well. That

is the key to both HOF and Dry Flo AF. For the HOF your PG or water

or what ever you chose to use, needs to be between 80F-90F to

disperse it properly.

HTH!

Di