Re: Bacteria and other triggers..

[Guest guest]

Kyla,

For one thing, I don't think auto-immune diseases are very well

understood. I know my own case. And I know that for years

I've seen one doctor after another who did not, or even try, to

understand my condition. I appear to have rheumatoid or

psoriatic arthritis.

As far as bacterial causes of arthritis or other auto-immune

diseases, I would say that it's the other way around...pollutants

could weaken the system so that bacterial infections could

start. Then too, pollutants themselves can cause illness.

I've been reading about diet a lot lately. I'm reading about how

people get sick around the holidays (Christmas, Easter).

And some of this appears to be a combination of stress

around the holidays, plus all the junk people eat at those

times. For instance, refined sugar intake can weaken

the immune system. And there are more other refined

or synthetic substances being consumed than I could

ever think of to mention.

Once certain infections start, they can leave a person

very sensitive to things they would not normally be sensitive

to. For instance, when a person gets into the advanced

stages of candidiasis, they become what is called

a " universal reactor. " The candida yeast in the gut, if

it is allowed to overgrow, can enter the bloodstream,

at which time it becomes a fungus. This condition is

known as systemic candidiasis.

In the advanced stages, a patient could wind up in a

psycho ward. In fact, I know someone who had this

happen to them...the wife of a friend of mine. The toxins

from the yeast (fungus) in the system can cause the brain

to start malfunctioning. So this is an example of how

an infection can make people sensitive to things.

By the way, a serious candida infection can also cause

arthritis.

rheumatic Bacteria and other triggers..

> From: " Kyla MacKenzie " <celticfox@...>

>

> Hello all,

>

> I was at the library today reading up on various auto immune

> disorders and how many people believe that exposure to toxic

> chemicals and materials triggered their disease.

>

> If auto-immune disease can be triggered by such things, then what

> where does bacteria fit in here? Is it that bacteria in ones body

> weakens the immune system, which makes them more susceptable to

> to developing auto-immune disorders when exposed to certain

> toxins and chemicals, that a healthy person's body wouldn't react

> to?

>

> Is that what the bacterial theory is all about..that the bacteria

> that most of us have in our systems weakens our bodies defences

> to otherwise harmless things?

>

> Cheers,

> Kyla

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> G-Shock Sports Watch ** NOW JUST $59.95 ** SHIPPING INCLUDED

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[Guest guest]

In article <372CBB00.560F20FC@...>, SC <sasc@...> writes

>I know with asthma (which is considered auto-immune disease) you can get

> " occupational asthma from exposure to various

Some forms of 'occupational asthma' have been found to be infection

based.

-------

Regards, Dr Graham Chiu

Prospective Internet Observational Study in Arthritis

Home Page http://www.compkarori.com/arthritis/

Contribute at http://www.compkarori.com/arthritis/contrib.htm

Data Entry at http://www.compkarori.com/cgi-local/piosa.cgi

[Guest guest]

Hi Kyla and all,

> Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 3:00 AM

> From: " Kyla MacKenzie " <celticfox@...>

>

> I was at the library today reading up on various auto immune

> disorders and how many people believe that exposure to toxic

> chemicals and materials triggered their disease.

>

> If auto-immune disease can be triggered by such things, then

> what where does bacteria fit in here?

<snip>

Why can't it be either/or -- one or the other -- for some of the

autoimmune diseases? Everyone's trigger need not necessarily be the

same to get any one autoimm. disease.

There's several documented instances where it's *later* determined that

a chemical (occupational exposure) caused an autoimm. disease.

One example is vitiligo - loss of skin pigment. DTBP

(2,4-di-ert-butylphenol) is a chemical known to induce vitiligo. Some

of the employees at a US co. that manufactured hydraulic pumps starting

getting vitiligo. They weren't handling DTBP but rather solid rubber

that turned out to have the chemical in it.

Another example is alopecia areata (autoimm. hair loss). There was a

paper factory in Brazil where 7 out of 77 workers in the water and

effluent treatment section, as opposed to 1 out of 1,220 people working

in the rest of the factory, got areata. They ran toxicology tests, and

all 7 of the affected workers were found to have an acrylamide

substance in their blood/urine. When the factory made changes in that

section (showers and better ventilation) the prevalence for areata

" disappeared " .

Additionally, re. areata, the Centers for Disease Control is reviewing

(ongoing) a relationship between its onset and the hepatitis-B vaccine

due to " anecdotal " adverse event reports. There's a few documented

cases where it's been proven (by positive rechallenge) to trigger

areata. Positive rechallenge means every time someone gets " X " vaccine

they experience areata, or whatever.

Point being, there can be more than one path to an autoimm. disease,

but that doesn't mean someone has to be exposed to all the triggers,

just one should do it.

Below is a medical abstract re. chemical exposure and RA. (I haven't

found any others.) No where does it say " X " chemical was identified as

causing RA, but the authors did conclude " substantial handling of

organic solvents was associated with an increased relative risk. " We

can read that backwards tho' and interpret it to also mean not everyone

with RA was handling solvents so there's got to be more to it!

Best wishes, Starla

-----------------------------

Scand J Rheumatol 1994;23(6):305-10

Occupation, occupational exposure to chemicals and

rheumatological disease. A register based cohort study.

Lundberg I, et al

Dept of Occupational Health, Karolinska Hosp., Stockholm, Sweden.

The cumulative incidence of rheumatoid arthritis (RA) was compared

between different occupations,and between different exposure

groups based on a job-exposure matrix (JEM). The study population

comprised those subjects who in 1980 lived in one of 13 Swedish

counties, were born between 1905 and 1945, and who had stated

the same occupation in the censuses of 1960 and 1970, a total of

375,035 men and 140,139 women. The study population was followed

concerning hospital care for rheumatoid arthritis in 1981-1983 by

lineage to the Swedish Hospital Discharge Register. In general there

were rather small differences in the relative risk of RA in different

exposure groups and different occupations. Most of the occupations

associated with an increased risk of RA were occupations in which

it was possible to work when the disease was present, i.e. cost

accountants, estimating clerks and working proprietors in the retail

trade. However, an increased relative risk of RA was also observed

in some occupations where selection of RA patients out of heavy

work should have biased genuinely increased relative risks towards

unity. Such occupations were farmers, upholsterers, lacquerers,

concrete workers, and hair-dressers. Substantial handling of organic

solvents, according to the JEM, was associated with an increased

relative risk.

PMID: 7801054, UI: 95099251

[Guest guest]

The way I think of it is in layers. Start out with an hereditary genetic

defect which means the immune system isnt as efficient as it should be in

dealing with infections like mycoplasmas, add a couple of childhood

illnesses , a few vaccinations , stress the immune system a bit more in

your twenties with say emotional stress or overwork or environmental stress

like workplace toxins or maybe even pregancy . The opportunistic

mycoplasmas get entrenched because the poor immune system is besieged on

all fronts and then along comes a particular stressor, the trigger, which

sends it into inefficient overdrive. Most people can pinpoint the event

which tipped the balance but also say they had warning signs that things

weren't right for some time.

Barbara

At 03:00 02-05-1999 -0400, you wrote:

>From: " Kyla MacKenzie " <celticfox@...>

>

>

>If auto-immune disease can be triggered by such things, then what

>where does bacteria fit in here? Is it that bacteria in ones body

>weakens the immune system, which makes them more susceptable to

>to developing auto-immune disorders when exposed to certain

>toxins and chemicals, that a healthy person's body wouldn't react

>to?

>

>Is that what the bacterial theory is all about..that the bacteria

>that most of us have in our systems weakens our bodies defences

>to otherwise harmless things?

>

>Cheers,

>Kyla

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>G-Shock Sports Watch ** NOW JUST $59.95 ** SHIPPING INCLUDED

>Built Tough, Built Cool! Full of Features! Electro Luminescent, Alarm

>1/100th of Second Stopwatch, 12/24 Hour, Great for Sports, and more!

> /ad/shoptheglobe11

>

>

[Guest guest]

Barbara,

I think your insights are pretty good here.

I have a systemic type of arthritis which is probably psoriatic

or rheumatoid. This flared up a few years ago after a period

of high stress and other unhealthy things going on in my life.

Also after an injury to the back.

rheumatic Re: Bacteria and other triggers..

> From: Barbara Gray <barbara@...>

>

> The way I think of it is in layers. Start out with an hereditary genetic

> defect which means the immune system isnt as efficient as it should be in

> dealing with infections like mycoplasmas, add a couple of childhood

> illnesses , a few vaccinations , stress the immune system a bit more in

> your twenties with say emotional stress or overwork or environmental

stress

> like workplace toxins or maybe even pregancy . The opportunistic

> mycoplasmas get entrenched because the poor immune system is besieged on

> all fronts and then along comes a particular stressor, the trigger, which

> sends it into inefficient overdrive. Most people can pinpoint the event

> which tipped the balance but also say they had warning signs that things

> weren't right for some time.

> Barbara

>

> At 03:00 02-05-1999 -0400, you wrote:

> >From: " Kyla MacKenzie " <celticfox@...>

> >

> >

> >If auto-immune disease can be triggered by such things, then what

> >where does bacteria fit in here? Is it that bacteria in ones body

> >weakens the immune system, which makes them more susceptable to

> >to developing auto-immune disorders when exposed to certain

> >toxins and chemicals, that a healthy person's body wouldn't react

> >to?

> >

> >Is that what the bacterial theory is all about..that the bacteria

> >that most of us have in our systems weakens our bodies defences

> >to otherwise harmless things?

> >

> >Cheers,

> >Kyla

> >

> >

> >

> >------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >G-Shock Sports Watch ** NOW JUST $59.95 ** SHIPPING INCLUDED

> >Built Tough, Built Cool! Full of Features! Electro Luminescent, Alarm

> >1/100th of Second Stopwatch, 12/24 Hour, Great for Sports, and more!

> > /ad/shoptheglobe11

> >

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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members

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feature!

[Guest guest]

Barbara Gray wrote:

>

> From: Barbara Gray <barbara@...>

>

> The way I think of it is in layers. Start out with an hereditary genetic

> defect which means the immune system isnt as efficient as it should be in

> dealing with infections like mycoplasmas,

Well one theory I liked, mentioned that the genetic connection may be as

simple as our bodies genetics being encoded to produce certain protein

chains that mycoplamas feed on, that others without that gene may not

produce (or may not produce a comparable quantity.) This could be why if

you have the gene you are more susceptible to this type of infection,

but doesn't mean that if you have the gene you get the disease or if you

don't have the gene that you are immune to it. So it may be that our

bodies are simply ideal host for these diseases and not that our immune

system is damaged in some way....

> Most people can pinpoint the event

> which tipped the balance but also say they had warning signs that things

> weren't right for some time.

I really wonder how many of these " pinpointed " events are really

correlated to the onset of disease. I know when I was having the NSAID

allergy and trying to find the environmental insult that was causing the

reaction, several times I thought I " knew " what the cause was, but sadly

every time I was wrong. This is a very complex disease and though we try

to look for reasons and " events " that brought this about, I'm not sure

we can really be accurate in our speculations.

Just my opinion.

Reminds me of one of my favorite lin quote. He once said

" We don't know 99 percent of 1 percent of anything " , and though he wrote

this some 200 years ago, I think it probably still holds true....

j.

------------------------------------

ph A. Graff

Director of Digital Prepress

Graphic Communications, Inc.

(301) 599-2020

" Obstacles are those frightful things

you see when you take your eyes off

your goals "

[Guest guest]

>From: Joe Graff <joegraff@...>

>

>Well one theory I liked, mentioned that the genetic connection may be as

>simple as our bodies genetics being encoded to produce certain protein

>chains that mycoplamas feed on, that others without that gene may not

>produce (or may not produce a comparable quantity.) This could be why if

>you have the gene you are more susceptible to this type of infection,

>but doesn't mean that if you have the gene you get the disease or if you

>don't have the gene that you are immune to it. So it may be that our

>bodies are simply ideal host for these diseases and not that our immune

>system is damaged in some way....

I too am very curious as to the mechanism, but have decided

to let the microbiologists figure it out. For now, the fact

that taking the antibiotic seems to be having a positive

effect on my RA is enough. I'm sure it'll all come out in

the wash. Vern

[Guest guest]

Barbara,

I like your description. Thanks!

Kari

----------

>From: Barbara Gray <barbara@...>

> " Kyla MacKenzie " <celticfox@...>

>Cc: rheumaticonelist

>Subject: rheumatic Re: Bacteria and other triggers..

>Date: Mon, May 3, 1999, 4:08 AM

>

>From: Barbara Gray <barbara@...>

>

>The way I think of it is in layers. Start out with an hereditary genetic

>defect which means the immune system isnt as efficient as it should be in

>dealing with infections like mycoplasmas, add a couple of childhood

>illnesses , a few vaccinations , stress the immune system a bit more in

>your twenties with say emotional stress or overwork or environmental stress

>like workplace toxins or maybe even pregancy . The opportunistic

>mycoplasmas get entrenched because the poor immune system is besieged on

>all fronts and then along comes a particular stressor, the trigger, which

>sends it into inefficient overdrive. Most people can pinpoint the event

>which tipped the balance but also say they had warning signs that things

>weren't right for some time.

>Barbara

>

>At 03:00 02-05-1999 -0400, you wrote:

>>From: " Kyla MacKenzie " <celticfox@...>

>>

>>

>>If auto-immune disease can be triggered by such things, then what

>>where does bacteria fit in here? Is it that bacteria in ones body

>>weakens the immune system, which makes them more susceptable to

>>to developing auto-immune disorders when exposed to certain

>>toxins and chemicals, that a healthy person's body wouldn't react

>>to?

>>

>>Is that what the bacterial theory is all about..that the bacteria

>>that most of us have in our systems weakens our bodies defences

>>to otherwise harmless things?

>>

>>Cheers,

>>Kyla

>>

>>

>>

>>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>G-Shock Sports Watch ** NOW JUST $59.95 ** SHIPPING INCLUDED

>>Built Tough, Built Cool! Full of Features! Electro Luminescent, Alarm

>>1/100th of Second Stopwatch, 12/24 Hour, Great for Sports, and more!

>> /ad/shoptheglobe11

>>

>>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>You can now easily share photos and documents with your fellow list members

>http://www.ONElist.com

>Check out our homepage for details on how to use our new shared files feature!

>

[Guest guest]

I was really healthy and active until I got this and while I had a bad

sinus infection 20 years ago I was never sickly, certainly not often

enough for anyone to think my immune system was off. Even now I'm

pretty healthy. Since my husband just tested positive I'm really going

with a straight infection, I also think mild cases are often not

diagnosed. My dr would have never tested me for it he just thought I'd

hurt my shoulders, he also didn't want to test my husband who just has

occasional wrist and ankle pains. I think more people should get

tested if they have any reoccuring joint pains.

Joe Graff wrote:

>

> From: Joe Graff <joegraff@...>

>

> Barbara Gray wrote:

> >

> > From: Barbara Gray <barbara@...>

> >

> > The way I think of it is in layers. Start out with an hereditary genetic

> > defect which means the immune system isnt as efficient as it should be in

> > dealing with infections like mycoplasmas,

>

> Well one theory I liked, mentioned that the genetic connection may be as

> simple as our bodies genetics being encoded to produce certain protein

> chains that mycoplamas feed on, that others without that gene may not

> produce (or may not produce a comparable quantity.) This could be why if

> you have the gene you are more susceptible to this type of infection,

> but doesn't mean that if you have the gene you get the disease or if you

> don't have the gene that you are immune to it. So it may be that our

> bodies are simply ideal host for these diseases and not that our immune

> system is damaged in some way....

>

> > Most people can pinpoint the event

> > which tipped the balance but also say they had warning signs that things

> > weren't right for some time.

>

> I really wonder how many of these " pinpointed " events are really

> correlated to the onset of disease. I know when I was having the NSAID

> allergy and trying to find the environmental insult that was causing the

> reaction, several times I thought I " knew " what the cause was, but sadly

> every time I was wrong. This is a very complex disease and though we try

> to look for reasons and " events " that brought this about, I'm not sure

> we can really be accurate in our speculations.

>

> Just my opinion.

>

> Reminds me of one of my favorite lin quote. He once said

> " We don't know 99 percent of 1 percent of anything " , and though he wrote

> this some 200 years ago, I think it probably still holds true....

>

> j.

>

> ------------------------------------

> ph A. Graff

> Director of Digital Prepress

> Graphic Communications, Inc.

> (301) 599-2020

> " Obstacles are those frightful things

> you see when you take your eyes off

> your goals "

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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