Re: Parenthood

[Guest guest]

My heart goes out to you... I think we all struggle with this... we

want to be good mothers, and we do NOT want to be like ours. I

mean, people are always joking about becoming our mothers.... They

don't understand, we CANT be our mothers.

I had one of the worst, and my early years with my kids built my

confidence, so long as I could keep some distance with my mom. At

that time it was LC, she was also too afraid of having to do

physical work with them. She just wanted to play with them

occasionally.

ANyway, I'm the biggest worrier on the planet... and I made it okay.

I have two daughters and my mindset was to do my BEST to let them

have a chance to voice their opinions (even from an early age) just

so long as they respected other people. I think that is what I

missed most, and wish my mother could have done.. is let me have an

opinion.

She never, I mean never, let me have an independent thought without

her evaluation of it. So that has been a GIFT I feel I have given

our daughters, and that is a powerful feeling, to have that much

influence over another life.

The good outweighs the negative... (just don't ask me how I like

teenage daughters when they're both PMS'ing.lol)

Hugs....

Be easy on yourself. You'll learn as you go, and it'll be okay.

[Guest guest]

You know, I never feared becoming like my BPD dad, but I have feared

having a CHILD like him, or like my crazy brother. I mean, my family

life was so depressing and difficult and sorrowful that I am terrified

of having to somehow repeat it.

In fact, I was so afraid of this that I waited too long to get

married, too long to have kids, and now...can't. At least, not without

a lot of artificial help. And then I think -- do I really want to put

myself through all that, and quite possibily end up with....a BPD child?

Does anyone else have this fear?

>

> Since my wedding is coming up in October, I've been thinking more

and more

> about having children. I've always wanted children, and I've pretty much

> decided that if I can't have them on my own, I will adopt (my

fiancee really

> wants us to try for our own first, though).

> Anyway, my natural response to thinking about kids, being a KO, is

fear. I'm

> afraid of turning into her, and I'm afraid also (as has been shown by my

> lack of discipline with my two cats) of becoming the exact opposite

- i.e.,

> too permissive.

> So, my question is, to those of who who have children, how do you do

it? How

> did you learn your current parenting style, if you're not following the

> model set up for you during your own childhood? Did you take

classes? Read

> books? Just figure out things on your own? Any comments/advice would be

> appreciated. Thanks!

>

[Guest guest]

My husband and I have been together 16 years. I have worked as an Early

Childhood Educator, working with infants and toddlers and their teen moms, for

the past 10 years. We were a child-free couple for 14 years! I am 35 and we

had our first child in November 2005.

For years I did not want to have children. I was so scared that deep in my core

I wouldn't be able to control myself and I would rage like Nada did. I have so

much respect and understanding for children that I did not want to bring a

little one into my life and end up treating him or her the way I was raised. I

was so worried about nature vs nurture. I wondered if my natural instinct to

parent was stronger than the way I was nurtured to parent?

For years I was determined NOT to have children then one day it just felt right.

My hubby agreed and 10 months later we were parents.

OMG, it might not be for everyone, but I personally am so thankful that I didn't

let my issues with Nada take this opportunity from me.

My daughter is so amazing, bright, beautiful, special, smart, etc.... I could

NEVER do anything to hurt her emotionally or physically. Her little life is

what has helped me to reconnect with this list so I could become the best mom

possible. No amount of parenting courses can help me with my fleas if I can't

recognize them so the biggest part of my parenting journey to date is

recognizing how I am different than Nada and how to ensure I stay that way.

The sleeplessness, the bad days, the illness is nothing compared to the enormous

love you feel for your little one. I was never prepared for that. To date, my

worst day with my daughter has still been miles above the best day I ever had

before she was in our lives.

It isn't for everyone but I can say that I am so thankful I didn't miss the

opportunity.

Good luck, you have lots of time to decide.

Steph

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[Guest guest]

Thanks for all the responses. I think you all have confirmed for me what I

already (instinctively) knew. I am not my mother, and I¹m not destined to be

like her, and screw my future children up the way she screwed me up!

The rage issue is still a BIG thing for me, though. Generally, I am a really

happy, laid-back individual ­ except when I am excessively tired, haven¹t

eaten for several hours, or sick (I¹m currently getting over a cold). The

other night, I flew off the handle and SCREAMED at my fiancee because he

wasn¹t giving my cats their bedtime treat quickly enough. WHAT? Where did

THAT come from? Oh yeah. That¹s a nada thing! : (

Usually, he tells me I¹m nothing like my nada, but then something like that

happens ...

I¹m taking steps right now to regulate my blood sugars with diet change and

eating small snacks every few hours, and that helps. But the sleep

deprivation that naturally comes with babies has me a little concerned ...

Maybe my fiancee and I can work out some sort of schedule/trade-off that

will allow us to both get a little more rest. Then again, he can¹t deal with

cat puke, so I don¹t know HOW he¹ll be able to deal with a baby¹s messes.

I don¹t know. Maybe I¹m just worrying too much.

Something else that worries me is my fiancee¹s insistence that spanking is

okay for young children. I know that, up to a certain age, you can¹t reason

with a child, but it seems that there¹s a fine line between spanking and

child abuse, and I don¹t want us to cross that line ­ especially with my

fiancee¹s childhood experiences. He says he was never abused, but he did

witness his older brother getting slammed in the head with an encyclopedia

by his father because he was having trouble unbuttoning his coat as a child!

And they all wonder why his brother is such a ³mess² now! Gee, how could

that happen?

Anyway, I don¹t really like the idea of spanking at all, so I¹m wondering:

what other forms of discipline/punishment are effective with very small

children?

[Guest guest]

time outs and taking a desired thing away for a while...like if your child

is having a temper tantrum...you tell him to quit or you'll take his

favorite toy away for the rest of the day...then DO it...don't be one of

these mothers who threaten to do something but never follow through...this

will teach him that his actions have consequences..you do need to get your

rages under control before you bring a child into you're life, though...it's

not fair to the child to be subjected to them just because you have a

cold...

Jackie

>Anyway, I don¹t really like the idea of spanking at all, so I¹m wondering:

what other forms of discipline/punishment are effective with very small

>children?

[Guest guest]

Definitely very small time outs- they say a minute for each year of

age.

I ignore my child's temper tantrums at this point or I try to

distract her. She is in the midst of terrible 2's even though she's

only 18 months and has started throwing herself on the ground when

she's mad. She's very dramatic (wonder where that comes from).

Sometimes it's hard not to laugh, toddlers are moody little creatures

and they are happy one minute and screaming the next.

I want her to be able to express her emotions, even anger, but when

she throws toys or is acting up I firmly tell her " No throw " or

whatever. If she keeps acting up, I take the toy away for awhile.

Toddlers listen only sometimes so it requires a lot of patience, but

fortunately their attention span is very short so its pretty easy to

distract her with another activity.

I don't believe in spanking either and my partner does so he and I

argue about discipline. My daughter has a tendency to hit me when

she's mad (this is typical toddler behavior) and I firmly tell

her " No hit " and put her down. I tell her I won't hold her if she is

hitting me. My partner thinks its ok to spank her over this and I

won't let him. What kind of sense does it make to tell a child not

to hit and then hit the child?

I am adamant on this point, spanking teaches you can get your way by

hitting and that violence is ok and I don't agree with that at all.

I think the exception with spanking is when they are doing something

dangerous and you spank to shock them and get their attention- say if

they try to run in the street, touch something hot, things like that.

I find sleep deprivation really effects my mood so I try to get

enough sleep and same thing with blood sugar so I eat every couple of

hours. With newborns, you never get enough sleep, but babies don't

do much and are much more portable than toddlers. You just sleep

when they sleep if possible and let other things go (cleaning,

cooking, etc) Getting sleep and taking care of baby is more

important.

When I have yelled at my daughter, I take responsibility and

apologize. I think accountability is something our parents never

gave us, so it's important to me to be accountable for my actions and

mistakes. All parents make mistakes, but you have to be willing to

make it right.

I hope this helps, again sorry my posts are so long!

>

> time outs and taking a desired thing away for a while...like if

your child

> is having a temper tantrum...you tell him to quit or you'll take

his

> favorite toy away for the rest of the day...then DO it...don't be

one of

> these mothers who threaten to do something but never follow

through...this

> will teach him that his actions have consequences..you do need to

get your

> rages under control before you bring a child into you're life,

though...it's

> not fair to the child to be subjected to them just because you have

a

> cold...

>

> Jackie

>

> >Anyway, I don¹t really like the idea of spanking at all, so I¹m

wondering:

> what other forms of discipline/punishment are effective with very

small

> >children?

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the time-out suggestion. I¹ve heard about that ­ just wondered if

it really worked. And I¹ve thought about the fact that all parents make

mistakes. It would¹ve been so nice if nada had just said she was sorry once

in a while for all the things she did/said to me.

That¹s one of the things I AM able to do. Not five minutes after I blew up

at my fiancee for the cat treat thing, I apologized to him because I

recognized how wrong it was. And we both realized that that one act

separates me from nada and her behavior.

But I do still want to work on the rages, anyway ­ they¹re not good. They

even scare me!

[Guest guest]

I don't know yet about older kids, but everything is iffy with

toddlers! They listen some, they don't listen some...

>

> Thanks for the time-out suggestion. I¹ve heard about that ­ just

wondered if

> it really worked. And I¹ve thought about the fact that all parents

make

> mistakes. It would¹ve been so nice if nada had just said she was

sorry once

> in a while for all the things she did/said to me.

> That¹s one of the things I AM able to do. Not five minutes after I

blew up

> at my fiancee for the cat treat thing, I apologized to him because I

> recognized how wrong it was. And we both realized that that one act

> separates me from nada and her behavior.

> But I do still want to work on the rages, anyway ­ they¹re not good.

They

> even scare me!

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

it does work if you stick to it...so many parents feel bad, then let the

child off tijme out..and time out is NOT in their room with TV, video,

books, toys...time out is in a chair in the dinningroom by themselves...but

you do check on them..but don't talk to them...

Jackie

Thanks for the time-out suggestion. I¹ve heard about that ­ just wondered if

it really worked. And I¹ve thought about the fact that all parents make

mistakes. It would¹ve been so nice if nada had just said she was sorry once

in a while for all the things she did/said to me.

That¹s one of the things I AM able to do. Not five minutes after I blew up

at my fiancee for the cat treat thing, I apologized to him because I

recognized how wrong it was. And we both realized that that one act

separates me from nada and her behavior.

But I do still want to work on the rages, anyway ­ they¹re not good. They

even scare me!

[Guest guest]

toddlers have a very very short attention span..so time outs would depend on

the individual child...but taking away a favorite toy for misbehavior does

work with toddlers...they can understand " I do bad, I loose Mr. Giraffe "

Jackie

I don't know yet about older kids, but everything is iffy with

toddlers! They listen some, they don't listen some...

[Guest guest]

Oh, how I wish we all lived nearby so we could have a baby/toddler

playgroup. I'd love to chat with you ladies about being a NBP mom and

breaking the cycle. I read so many of your posts, and it's like I

could have written them.

Regarding discipline strategies: time out has been fairly effective

for us. If your toddler is one who just gets right up, try a higher

chair. My son stays in a dining room chair but used to stand right up

if you used a little-person chair. Someone else told me about making

a " fuss box " but I never tried it. You take a big square cardboard

box, about 2/3 as tall as they are, and decorate it together with

paint/markers/stickers. Then you tell them that this will be their

place to go when they are " fussing " and need some time to calm down.

Then when they are getting out of control you put them in there using

the same one minute per year of age guideline. I wish I had a fuss

box for me: imagine, 33 minutes to calm down with a 4 foot wide

barrier around me when I felt like I was getting out of control. That

would be great

I am a big advocate of using natural consequences whenever possible,

and this gets easier the older they get. If my son is shoving his

baby sister out of the way of a toy, he loses the privilege of

playing with her and the toy for a short period of time. If he uses

his stool to climb up and reach something he's not supposed to play

with, he loses the stool. If he doesn't come back or stop walking

when we're outside and I tell him to, he has to stay right with me

for awhile and loses the freedom to roam. Of course, these are my

Good Mommy strategies. When I am in a bad place I overreact to every

little thing he does and plop him in time out and rant and rave.

In terms of how I handle things, I agree that sleep and maintaining

blood sugar levels are essential. When my blood sugar is dropping and

I am exhausted, I can be horrible...rough, and mean. And then the

guilt sets in.

I am dedicated to doing whatever it takes to provide a peaceful and

nurturing home for my babies, and I can see this is a challenge for

some of you, too. We can do this, mommies!

with an E

[Guest guest]

I want a fuss box too, I think that's a great idea! Somehow, I know

my daughter would barge in, so would my partner, and the cat. I

can't even go to the bathroom by myself now!

I wish we could have a play group too, we are all working towards the

same goals and all want to break the cycle...

with an I

>

> Oh, how I wish we all lived nearby so we could have a baby/toddler

> playgroup. I'd love to chat with you ladies about being a NBP mom

and

> breaking the cycle. I read so many of your posts, and it's like I

> could have written them.

>

> Regarding discipline strategies: time out has been fairly effective

> for us. If your toddler is one who just gets right up, try a higher

> chair. My son stays in a dining room chair but used to stand right

up

> if you used a little-person chair. Someone else told me about

making

> a " fuss box " but I never tried it. You take a big square cardboard

> box, about 2/3 as tall as they are, and decorate it together with

> paint/markers/stickers. Then you tell them that this will be their

> place to go when they are " fussing " and need some time to calm

down.

> Then when they are getting out of control you put them in there

using

> the same one minute per year of age guideline. I wish I had a fuss

> box for me: imagine, 33 minutes to calm down with a 4 foot wide

> barrier around me when I felt like I was getting out of control.

That

> would be great

>

> I am a big advocate of using natural consequences whenever

possible,

> and this gets easier the older they get. If my son is shoving his

> baby sister out of the way of a toy, he loses the privilege of

> playing with her and the toy for a short period of time. If he uses

> his stool to climb up and reach something he's not supposed to play

> with, he loses the stool. If he doesn't come back or stop walking

> when we're outside and I tell him to, he has to stay right with me

> for awhile and loses the freedom to roam. Of course, these are my

> Good Mommy strategies. When I am in a bad place I overreact to

every

> little thing he does and plop him in time out and rant and rave.

>

> In terms of how I handle things, I agree that sleep and maintaining

> blood sugar levels are essential. When my blood sugar is dropping

and

> I am exhausted, I can be horrible...rough, and mean. And then the

> guilt sets in.

>

> I am dedicated to doing whatever it takes to provide a peaceful and

> nurturing home for my babies, and I can see this is a challenge for

> some of you, too. We can do this, mommies!

>

> with an E

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, you know these aren't easy times when getting to go to the

bathroom without anybody coming in is a luxury. I put up a gate, but

my baby stands there and rattles it, which is just as bad as her

coming in and pulling down the TP roll. I give her a magazine to tear

up sometimes just to get a few minutes peace. I remember when my son

used to do the same thing, and he grew out of it, so I know it won't

last forever.

KristEn

[Guest guest]

Yeah, you know these aren't easy times when getting to go to the

bathroom without anybody coming in is a luxury. I put up a gate, but

my baby stands there and rattles it, which is just as bad as her

coming in and pulling down the TP roll. I give her a magazine to tear

up sometimes just to get a few minutes peace. I remember when my son

used to do the same thing, and he grew out of it, so I know it won't

last forever.

KristEn

[Guest guest]

Yeah, you know these aren't easy times when getting to go to the

bathroom without anybody coming in is a luxury. I put up a gate, but

my baby stands there and rattles it, which is just as bad as her

coming in and pulling down the TP roll. I give her a magazine to tear

up sometimes just to get a few minutes peace. I remember when my son

used to do the same thing, and he grew out of it, so I know it won't

last forever.

KristEn

[Guest guest]

you sound like a great mom !!

Jackie

I am a big advocate of using natural consequences whenever possible,

and this gets easier the older they get. If my son is shoving his

baby sister out of the way of a toy, he loses the privilege of

playing with her and the toy for a short period of time. If he uses

his stool to climb up and reach something he's not supposed to play

with, he loses the stool. If he doesn't come back or stop walking

when we're outside and I tell him to, he has to stay right with me

for awhile and loses the freedom to roam. Of course, these are my

Good Mommy strategies. When I am in a bad place I overreact to every

little thing he does and plop him in time out and rant and rave.

In terms of how I handle things, I agree that sleep and maintaining

blood sugar levels are essential. When my blood sugar is dropping and

I am exhausted, I can be horrible...rough, and mean. And then the

guilt sets in.

I am dedicated to doing whatever it takes to provide a peaceful and

nurturing home for my babies, and I can see this is a challenge for

some of you, too. We can do this, mommies!

with an E

[Guest guest]

Re: the Rages -- I'll ask you the same question Dr. Phil asks

people who rage: " Do you do that at work? In public? "

If the answer is " No " , then it's a behavior you can stop -- because

at work, you know you can't do it. It might help to think of your

home, fiance (or husband) and children as off-limits for rages, too.

My therapist calls raging " self-indulgent " -- it sucks everyone

else's oxygen out, and lets the rager have all the feelings. If one

person gets to rage, and no one else does, that's not really fair,

either.

In my house growing up, nada got to be the rager -- we were all

assigned the role of the fearful audience. It was her way of

avoiding an adult discussion, and manipulating everyone into doing

what she wanted, or just backing off.

You're be wise to get to the bottom of the rages before you proceed

with marriage and children -- you're smart to give it a good look

now. It just takes a couple of episodes to make a child unsettled,

fearful and mistrustful of the rager.

>

> Thanks for all the responses. I think you all have confirmed for

me what I

> already (instinctively) knew. I am not my mother, and I¹m not

destined to be

> like her, and screw my future children up the way she screwed me

up!

> The rage issue is still a BIG thing for me, though. Generally, I

am a really

> happy, laid-back individual ­ except when I am excessively tired,

haven¹t

> eaten for several hours, or sick (I¹m currently getting over a

cold). The

> other night, I flew off the handle and SCREAMED at my fiancee

because he

> wasn¹t giving my cats their bedtime treat quickly enough. WHAT?

Where did

> THAT come from? Oh yeah. That¹s a nada thing! : (

> Usually, he tells me I¹m nothing like my nada, but then something

like that

> happens ...

> I¹m taking steps right now to regulate my blood sugars with diet

change and

> eating small snacks every few hours, and that helps. But the sleep

> deprivation that naturally comes with babies has me a little

concerned ...

> Maybe my fiancee and I can work out some sort of schedule/trade-

off that

> will allow us to both get a little more rest. Then again, he can¹t

deal with

> cat puke, so I don¹t know HOW he¹ll be able to deal with a baby¹s

messes.

> I don¹t know. Maybe I¹m just worrying too much.

> Something else that worries me is my fiancee¹s insistence that

spanking is

> okay for young children. I know that, up to a certain age, you

can¹t reason

> with a child, but it seems that there¹s a fine line between

spanking and

> child abuse, and I don¹t want us to cross that line ­ especially

with my

> fiancee¹s childhood experiences. He says he was never abused, but

he did

> witness his older brother getting slammed in the head with an

encyclopedia

> by his father because he was having trouble unbuttoning his coat

as a child!

> And they all wonder why his brother is such a ³mess² now! Gee, how

could

> that happen?

> Anyway, I don¹t really like the idea of spanking at all, so I¹m

wondering:

> what other forms of discipline/punishment are effective with very

small

> children?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Re: the Rages -- I'll ask you the same question Dr. Phil asks

people who rage: " Do you do that at work? In public? "

If the answer is " No " , then it's a behavior you can stop -- because

at work, you know you can't do it. It might help to think of your

home, fiance (or husband) and children as off-limits for rages, too.

My therapist calls raging " self-indulgent " -- it sucks everyone

else's oxygen out, and lets the rager have all the feelings. If one

person gets to rage, and no one else does, that's not really fair,

either.

In my house growing up, nada got to be the rager -- we were all

assigned the role of the fearful audience. It was her way of

avoiding an adult discussion, and manipulating everyone into doing

what she wanted, or just backing off.

You're be wise to get to the bottom of the rages before you proceed

with marriage and children -- you're smart to give it a good look

now. It just takes a couple of episodes to make a child unsettled,

fearful and mistrustful of the rager.

>

> Thanks for all the responses. I think you all have confirmed for

me what I

> already (instinctively) knew. I am not my mother, and I¹m not

destined to be

> like her, and screw my future children up the way she screwed me

up!

> The rage issue is still a BIG thing for me, though. Generally, I

am a really

> happy, laid-back individual ­ except when I am excessively tired,

haven¹t

> eaten for several hours, or sick (I¹m currently getting over a

cold). The

> other night, I flew off the handle and SCREAMED at my fiancee

because he

> wasn¹t giving my cats their bedtime treat quickly enough. WHAT?

Where did

> THAT come from? Oh yeah. That¹s a nada thing! : (

> Usually, he tells me I¹m nothing like my nada, but then something

like that

> happens ...

> I¹m taking steps right now to regulate my blood sugars with diet

change and

> eating small snacks every few hours, and that helps. But the sleep

> deprivation that naturally comes with babies has me a little

concerned ...

> Maybe my fiancee and I can work out some sort of schedule/trade-

off that

> will allow us to both get a little more rest. Then again, he can¹t

deal with

> cat puke, so I don¹t know HOW he¹ll be able to deal with a baby¹s

messes.

> I don¹t know. Maybe I¹m just worrying too much.

> Something else that worries me is my fiancee¹s insistence that

spanking is

> okay for young children. I know that, up to a certain age, you

can¹t reason

> with a child, but it seems that there¹s a fine line between

spanking and

> child abuse, and I don¹t want us to cross that line ­ especially

with my

> fiancee¹s childhood experiences. He says he was never abused, but

he did

> witness his older brother getting slammed in the head with an

encyclopedia

> by his father because he was having trouble unbuttoning his coat

as a child!

> And they all wonder why his brother is such a ³mess² now! Gee, how

could

> that happen?

> Anyway, I don¹t really like the idea of spanking at all, so I¹m

wondering:

> what other forms of discipline/punishment are effective with very

small

> children?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mishael: my heart goes out to you. i was terrified of being a parent myself in

fear that i would turn into my nada. but i went back to school got my ECE units

at a local college and took an R.O.P. class on childcare. both helped me a lot.

so i know a little about this, LOL i hope. time outs seem to work because

toddlers are busy bodies. their attention span is so short and having to sit on

a chair is just terrible for them. we were taught to talk to children in

positives, in other words try not to use the word NO and DON'T so much. e.g.

don't run, can be: let's walk slowly. when they are bouncing off the walls:

turn the lights off. distractions at that age are your biggest allies. it is

difficult at first. but just the fact that you are so concerned means quite the

opposite: YOU ARE GOING TO BE A TERRIFIC MOMMY!!! kids don't come with

instructional manuals i know. but look at how much you care! that makes all

the difference in the world. i know you are under the weather and tired, but it

will pass. try to remember to do something for yourself, indulge yourself. you

are going to be GREAT! V.

Re: Parenthood

Re: the Rages -- I'll ask you the same question Dr. Phil asks

people who rage: " Do you do that at work? In public? "

If the answer is " No " , then it's a behavior you can stop -- because

at work, you know you can't do it. It might help to think of your

home, fiance (or husband) and children as off-limits for rages, too.

My therapist calls raging " self-indulgent " -- it sucks everyone

else's oxygen out, and lets the rager have all the feelings. If one

person gets to rage, and no one else does, that's not really fair,

either.

In my house growing up, nada got to be the rager -- we were all

assigned the role of the fearful audience. It was her way of

avoiding an adult discussion, and manipulating everyone into doing

what she wanted, or just backing off.

You're be wise to get to the bottom of the rages before you proceed

with marriage and children -- you're smart to give it a good look

now. It just takes a couple of episodes to make a child unsettled,

fearful and mistrustful of the rager.

>

> Thanks for all the responses. I think you all have confirmed for

me what I

> already (instinctively) knew. I am not my mother, and I¹m not

destined to be

> like her, and screw my future children up the way she screwed me

up!

> The rage issue is still a BIG thing for me, though. Generally, I

am a really

> happy, laid-back individual ­ except when I am excessively tired,

haven¹t

> eaten for several hours, or sick (I¹m currently getting over a

cold). The

> other night, I flew off the handle and SCREAMED at my fiancee

because he

> wasn¹t giving my cats their bedtime treat quickly enough. WHAT?

Where did

> THAT come from? Oh yeah. That¹s a nada thing! : (

> Usually, he tells me I¹m nothing like my nada, but then something

like that

> happens ...

> I¹m taking steps right now to regulate my blood sugars with diet

change and

> eating small snacks every few hours, and that helps. But the sleep

> deprivation that naturally comes with babies has me a little

concerned ...

> Maybe my fiancee and I can work out some sort of schedule/trade-

off that

> will allow us to both get a little more rest. Then again, he can¹t

deal with

> cat puke, so I don¹t know HOW he¹ll be able to deal with a baby¹s

messes.

> I don¹t know. Maybe I¹m just worrying too much.

> Something else that worries me is my fiancee¹s insistence that

spanking is

> okay for young children. I know that, up to a certain age, you

can¹t reason

> with a child, but it seems that there¹s a fine line between

spanking and

> child abuse, and I don¹t want us to cross that line ­ especially

with my

> fiancee¹s childhood experiences. He says he was never abused, but

he did

> witness his older brother getting slammed in the head with an

encyclopedia

> by his father because he was having trouble unbuttoning his coat

as a child!

> And they all wonder why his brother is such a ³mess² now! Gee, how

could

> that happen?

> Anyway, I don¹t really like the idea of spanking at all, so I¹m

wondering:

> what other forms of discipline/punishment are effective with very

small

> children?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mishael: my heart goes out to you. i was terrified of being a parent myself in

fear that i would turn into my nada. but i went back to school got my ECE units

at a local college and took an R.O.P. class on childcare. both helped me a lot.

so i know a little about this, LOL i hope. time outs seem to work because

toddlers are busy bodies. their attention span is so short and having to sit on

a chair is just terrible for them. we were taught to talk to children in

positives, in other words try not to use the word NO and DON'T so much. e.g.

don't run, can be: let's walk slowly. when they are bouncing off the walls:

turn the lights off. distractions at that age are your biggest allies. it is

difficult at first. but just the fact that you are so concerned means quite the

opposite: YOU ARE GOING TO BE A TERRIFIC MOMMY!!! kids don't come with

instructional manuals i know. but look at how much you care! that makes all

the difference in the world. i know you are under the weather and tired, but it

will pass. try to remember to do something for yourself, indulge yourself. you

are going to be GREAT! V.

Re: Parenthood

Re: the Rages -- I'll ask you the same question Dr. Phil asks

people who rage: " Do you do that at work? In public? "

If the answer is " No " , then it's a behavior you can stop -- because

at work, you know you can't do it. It might help to think of your

home, fiance (or husband) and children as off-limits for rages, too.

My therapist calls raging " self-indulgent " -- it sucks everyone

else's oxygen out, and lets the rager have all the feelings. If one

person gets to rage, and no one else does, that's not really fair,

either.

In my house growing up, nada got to be the rager -- we were all

assigned the role of the fearful audience. It was her way of

avoiding an adult discussion, and manipulating everyone into doing

what she wanted, or just backing off.

You're be wise to get to the bottom of the rages before you proceed

with marriage and children -- you're smart to give it a good look

now. It just takes a couple of episodes to make a child unsettled,

fearful and mistrustful of the rager.

>

> Thanks for all the responses. I think you all have confirmed for

me what I

> already (instinctively) knew. I am not my mother, and I¹m not

destined to be

> like her, and screw my future children up the way she screwed me

up!

> The rage issue is still a BIG thing for me, though. Generally, I

am a really

> happy, laid-back individual ­ except when I am excessively tired,

haven¹t

> eaten for several hours, or sick (I¹m currently getting over a

cold). The

> other night, I flew off the handle and SCREAMED at my fiancee

because he

> wasn¹t giving my cats their bedtime treat quickly enough. WHAT?

Where did

> THAT come from? Oh yeah. That¹s a nada thing! : (

> Usually, he tells me I¹m nothing like my nada, but then something

like that

> happens ...

> I¹m taking steps right now to regulate my blood sugars with diet

change and

> eating small snacks every few hours, and that helps. But the sleep

> deprivation that naturally comes with babies has me a little

concerned ...

> Maybe my fiancee and I can work out some sort of schedule/trade-

off that

> will allow us to both get a little more rest. Then again, he can¹t

deal with

> cat puke, so I don¹t know HOW he¹ll be able to deal with a baby¹s

messes.

> I don¹t know. Maybe I¹m just worrying too much.

> Something else that worries me is my fiancee¹s insistence that

spanking is

> okay for young children. I know that, up to a certain age, you

can¹t reason

> with a child, but it seems that there¹s a fine line between

spanking and

> child abuse, and I don¹t want us to cross that line ­ especially

with my

> fiancee¹s childhood experiences. He says he was never abused, but

he did

> witness his older brother getting slammed in the head with an

encyclopedia

> by his father because he was having trouble unbuttoning his coat

as a child!

> And they all wonder why his brother is such a ³mess² now! Gee, how

could

> that happen?

> Anyway, I don¹t really like the idea of spanking at all, so I¹m

wondering:

> what other forms of discipline/punishment are effective with very

small

> children?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

what a great post..I love Dr Phil...words of wisdom :-)

Jackie

Re: the Rages -- I'll ask you the same question Dr. Phil asks

people who rage: " Do you do that at work? In public? "

If the answer is " No " , then it's a behavior you can stop -- because

at work, you know you can't do it. It might help to think of your

home, fiance (or husband) and children as off-limits for rages, too.

My therapist calls raging " self-indulgent " -- it sucks everyone

else's oxygen out, and lets the rager have all the feelings. If one

person gets to rage, and no one else does, that's not really fair,

either.

In my house growing up, nada got to be the rager -- we were all

assigned the role of the fearful audience. It was her way of

avoiding an adult discussion, and manipulating everyone into doing

what she wanted, or just backing off.

You're be wise to get to the bottom of the rages before you proceed

with marriage and children -- you're smart to give it a good look

now. It just takes a couple of episodes to make a child unsettled,

fearful and mistrustful of the rager.

[Guest guest]

This is so great that you are thinking this through before having

any children. I'll give you my thoughts, but I want to preface it

by saying that sometimes the same word(s) mean different things to

different people.

I don't believe small children need punishment. They need

protection from unsafe environments. So - no punishment for

touching/trying to touch dangerous/delicate things. Protect the

child by making these things unaccessible. Punishment implies that

the child deliberately disobeyed. Small children can't reason to

that extent. And often they are punished because the adults expect

them to have knowledge, understanding and self-control that is way

beyond their abilities. It takes more work to do this than to just

punish a child, but a small child should not be put in an

environment where they could be hurt, or where they could come in

contact with things that they cannot handle. It is the parents job

to keep the child's environment safe.

Discipline is another thing in my mind. It is how we train our

children to take care of themselves, to do what needs to be done

when it needs to be done, to learn how to put off immediate

gratification for a future gain. Now, think about how many adults

are able to do all those things - or who still struggle with these

things. If discipline can still be difficult for adults, why would

we punish children for lacking self-discipline?

Punishment often seems to be a way for an adult - stronger and

smarter than a child, to control a child by physical force or

intimidation. It is often the easy way out. It takes much more

time to train a child than it does to punish a child. Sometimes, in

the course of the day - work outside of home, possibly, and then the

daily maintenance of the home, meals, laundry, appointments, etc, we

start to feel so stressed by getting these things done that we short

change the time we need to spend with our children. (In retrospect,

this was one of my failings as a parent.)

Eventually, children do learn that there are consequences to their

behaviors. I think the age of reasoning is somewhere around 8

years. It seems to be totally appropriate then to allow a child to

experience consequences, as long as those consequences are not

dangerous or won't cause physical harm.

I used to be a nursery school/day care director. One of the 'rules'

that I enforced was that the day care children were allowed to bring

one toy from home that they did not have to share with everyone

else! I took some flack for this, as the common philosophy is that

children are expected to share with others. But my philosophy was,

if I, as an adult, didn't want some authority to force me to share

my possessions, why should I force a child to do that. I wouldn't

just share my car with anyone I know, right? Why should we expect

children to just give up (even temporarily) one of their possessions

for the sake of 'being nice and sharing'.

I don't believe in spanking, either. But there were a few times my

children did get spanked. That was because I did not know of a

better way to deal with the situation. I also did not have a good

support network for parenting. Many of my generation did believe in

spanking and other forms of punishment (mistakenly called

discipline). I actually had a neighbor laugh at me for talking so

much to my infant daughter. Her comment was, she doesn't understand

anything you are say, so why are you talking to her so much?

Fortunately, I had enough sense to realize that she was the mistaken

one.

Hmmmm - remember the root word of discipline is disciple (a

follower, a believer, a STUDENT). So if you are discipling your

children, it should be to teach them, not to punish them. Also, our

children learn infinitely more from what we do on a daily basis

rather than what we say to them. They are constantly watching us to

learn about life. That how the real teaching takes place, and

probably all parents can tell a story of something they

inadvertently taught their children (and wish they didn't!) So,

live your life the way you would like your children to live theirs,

and you will be teaching them what you want them to learn.

Keep on researching on how to raise a child without spanking. I

believe there are some very good resources out there. Go over the

material with your future husband. Learn how to recognize the

things that trigger your fleas, and make plans on how you will deal

with the triggers before they happen. You have really good ideas on

managing the health issues related to stress. My experience has

been that the more I understood what caused my 'bad' behavior, and

when I could forgive myself for making mistakes because I truely did

not know any better, I was then able to better manage my actions and

reactions in a more healthy way.

Okay - I guess I have said enough on this topic for now!

Take care,

Sylvia

>

> Thanks for all the responses. I think you all have confirmed for

me what I

> already (instinctively) knew. I am not my mother, and I¹m not

destined to be

> like her, and screw my future children up the way she screwed me

up!

> The rage issue is still a BIG thing for me, though. Generally, I

am a really

> happy, laid-back individual ­ except when I am excessively tired,

haven¹t

> eaten for several hours, or sick (I¹m currently getting over a

cold). The

> other night, I flew off the handle and SCREAMED at my fiancee

because he

> wasn¹t giving my cats their bedtime treat quickly enough. WHAT?

Where did

> THAT come from? Oh yeah. That¹s a nada thing! : (

> Usually, he tells me I¹m nothing like my nada, but then something

like that

> happens ...

> I¹m taking steps right now to regulate my blood sugars with diet

change and

> eating small snacks every few hours, and that helps. But the sleep

> deprivation that naturally comes with babies has me a little

concerned ...

> Maybe my fiancee and I can work out some sort of schedule/trade-

off that

> will allow us to both get a little more rest. Then again, he can¹t

deal with

> cat puke, so I don¹t know HOW he¹ll be able to deal with a baby¹s

messes.

> I don¹t know. Maybe I¹m just worrying too much.

> Something else that worries me is my fiancee¹s insistence that

spanking is

> okay for young children. I know that, up to a certain age, you

can¹t reason

> with a child, but it seems that there¹s a fine line between

spanking and

> child abuse, and I don¹t want us to cross that line ­ especially

with my

> fiancee¹s childhood experiences. He says he was never abused, but

he did

> witness his older brother getting slammed in the head with an

encyclopedia

> by his father because he was having trouble unbuttoning his coat

as a child!

> And they all wonder why his brother is such a ³mess² now! Gee, how

could

> that happen?

> Anyway, I don¹t really like the idea of spanking at all, so I¹m

wondering:

> what other forms of discipline/punishment are effective with very

small

> children?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, it's interesting that you bring this up -- I found out last Thursday

morning that I'm pregnant. Of course, my situation is SO not great right now,

since nada is still living with me and is in the middle of her third week of a

round of rages/silence. Plus my boyfriend is currently living 2 hours away from

me (looong story; we are working on it). Yeah, this pregnancy was kind of a

surprise (to put it mildly)...but I'm trying to see it as a big " nudge " to get

me working on my life! I am NOT going to let my baby be exposed to what I dealt

with as a child.

n

econ2econ wrote:

Sometimes I wish the decision would be made for me, though, like in

your case (either way), like knowing I couldn't have them or getting

pregant by " surprise " . It would kind of take the pressure off me

mentally, knowing that it's not ultimately up to me. I'm not a

religious person, and feel that we all choose our own destinies...

---------------------------------

Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels

in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

[Guest guest]

Well, it's interesting that you bring this up -- I found out last Thursday

morning that I'm pregnant. Of course, my situation is SO not great right now,

since nada is still living with me and is in the middle of her third week of a

round of rages/silence. Plus my boyfriend is currently living 2 hours away from

me (looong story; we are working on it). Yeah, this pregnancy was kind of a

surprise (to put it mildly)...but I'm trying to see it as a big " nudge " to get

me working on my life! I am NOT going to let my baby be exposed to what I dealt

with as a child.

n

econ2econ wrote:

Sometimes I wish the decision would be made for me, though, like in

your case (either way), like knowing I couldn't have them or getting

pregant by " surprise " . It would kind of take the pressure off me

mentally, knowing that it's not ultimately up to me. I'm not a

religious person, and feel that we all choose our own destinies...

---------------------------------

Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels

in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

[Guest guest]

Congratulations! I was shocked and surprised when I found out I was

pregnant too; I had been misdiagnosed as being unable to get pregnant

so I was 8 weeks when I found out and thought I had had the flu for a

month. I even went to the ER for flu symptoms.

Can you get your nada out of your house? It is so important to take

care of you right now and to minimize your stress. I was extrememly

stressed in the beginning of my pregnancy- my boyfriend and I had a

lot of problems- and it made things much more difficult to process.

If this is what you want, it's an exciting and amazing time- I was

beyond terrified at first.

Good Luck!

Sometimes I wish the decision would be made for me, though, like in

> your case (either way), like knowing I couldn't have them or

getting

> pregant by " surprise " . It would kind of take the pressure off me

> mentally, knowing that it's not ultimately up to me. I'm not a

> religious person, and feel that we all choose our own destinies...

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels

> in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

>

>