Re: Parenthood

[Guest guest]

My brother recently got married. When my non-BPD mom discovered BPD

in December (via " Eggshells " )she recognized many of the traits in my

father which were starting to surface in my brother's behavior. She

gave both of us a copy of the book, and pleaded for us to read it

(to help us deal with dad, and for self-reflection). She begged my

brother to reconsider having children if he thought that he would

treat his children the way we were treated by my father.

I do have a wonderful 2-year old son...and I have recognized some of

the rage issues in myself in the past...but I don't know if that's

normal or not?! Part of the problem is that we have a different

perception of " normal " growing up, and once we realize that wasn't

normal, we don't know what the standards are!!! When I was

concerned about this one evening, my husband said " you're nothing

like your father. " It's the nicest thing that anyone has ever said

to me!

I am a product of my childhood. I'm damn proud of who I've become.

I am a strong (sometimes too strong) woman because of my childhood.

I had a father who made me grow a shell to protect myself

emotionally, and I had a mother who let me know it was ok to lose

the shell once in a while and let others in. I really have the

greatest mom. I learned how to be a parent from her-how to protect

my child and let them know that they are loved no matter what anyone

else says. When she comes to visit and I watch her do " the grandma

thing " (which she LOVES), I realize how much of her is reflected in

my parenting.

Talk to your spouse and your siblings. If anyone can be honest with

you, it should be them. They should tell you whether you exhibit any

behaviors which you would not want to raise a child with, or pass on

to a child. You'll do whatever you know is best, and you'll be

fine. Especially since you know what you don't want for your child.

>

> Since my wedding is coming up in October, I've been thinking more

and more

> about having children. I've always wanted children, and I've

pretty much

> decided that if I can't have them on my own, I will adopt (my

fiancee really

> wants us to try for our own first, though).

> Anyway, my natural response to thinking about kids, being a KO, is

fear. I'm

> afraid of turning into her, and I'm afraid also (as has been shown

by my

> lack of discipline with my two cats) of becoming the exact

opposite - i.e.,

> too permissive.

> So, my question is, to those of who who have children, how do you

do it? How

> did you learn your current parenting style, if you're not

following the

> model set up for you during your own childhood? Did you take

classes? Read

> books? Just figure out things on your own? Any comments/advice

would be

> appreciated. Thanks!

>

[Guest guest]

Have you been a baby-sitter for a friend/relative? Could you

volunteer as a scout leader or big brothers/big sisters? Or do you

have a pet? I know a lot of people who say a puppy is good practice

for a baby.

>

> Since my wedding is coming up in October, I've been thinking more

and more

> about having children. I've always wanted children, and I've pretty much

> decided that if I can't have them on my own, I will adopt (my

fiancee really

> wants us to try for our own first, though).

> Anyway, my natural response to thinking about kids, being a KO, is

fear. I'm

> afraid of turning into her, and I'm afraid also (as has been shown by my

> lack of discipline with my two cats) of becoming the exact opposite

- i.e.,

> too permissive.

> So, my question is, to those of who who have children, how do you do

it? How

> did you learn your current parenting style, if you're not following the

> model set up for you during your own childhood? Did you take

classes? Read

> books? Just figure out things on your own? Any comments/advice would be

> appreciated. Thanks!

>

[Guest guest]

I had a problem with rage in the past, too. I was angry. My

therapist has taught me that it's NEVER acceptable to rage at the

children. And really, expression of rage is unacceptable for a

mature adult. Rage is infantile -- and now that we're adults, we

can negotiate, reason, state our case, journal and let the rest go

as out of our control.

For what it's worth -- but that's what my therapist has taught me.

I get frustrated and angry sometimes as a wife and mother, but I've

learned to ditch the rage. My kids have been spared the behaviors

my BPD mother modeled for me.

My T has said flat-out: " Rage is unacceptable. Drop it from your

repetoire and grow up and handle with like an adult. "

In my case, it worked.

-Kyla

> >

> > Since my wedding is coming up in October, I've been thinking

more

> and more

> > about having children. I've always wanted children, and I've

> pretty much

> > decided that if I can't have them on my own, I will adopt (my

> fiancee really

> > wants us to try for our own first, though).

> > Anyway, my natural response to thinking about kids, being a KO,

is

> fear. I'm

> > afraid of turning into her, and I'm afraid also (as has been

shown

> by my

> > lack of discipline with my two cats) of becoming the exact

> opposite - i.e.,

> > too permissive.

> > So, my question is, to those of who who have children, how do

you

> do it? How

> > did you learn your current parenting style, if you're not

> following the

> > model set up for you during your own childhood? Did you take

> classes? Read

> > books? Just figure out things on your own? Any comments/advice

> would be

> > appreciated. Thanks!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, you can start your basic parenting philosphy with at least one

cornerstone: When you have kids, it's not about you anymore. It's

about them.

Your time won't be your own anymore.

You can't indulge any strong emotions you're having.

You can't try to control everything anymore.

You'll lose sleep. You'll learn to function anyway.

You'll give love.

You'll get love.

Your job is to love them, feed them, clothe them -- recognize their

God-given special gifts. Build them up -- encourage them. Invite

them to help you in some small way.

Make sure they look nice when they're supposed to.

Eat dinner together as much as you can.

Your house will be messier. Keep as organized as you can, but don't

punish yourself if some of it gets away from you. I've found those

things go in cycles.

No raging.

Recognize when you need time alone.

Show them that YOU have interests of your own, but not so much that

all they see is a distracted and stressed mother.

Take them to the park.

Focus on loving them -- building them up. The rest will fall into

place.

Laugh a lot. Hug a lot. Love a lot.

Remember that your time with them -- while seeming to stretch before

you endlessly -- is short. Your " window " of opportunity with them

closes after a certain time, and they become part of the larger

world. So, enjoy your special time in the coccoon, before they

start school and all of that stuff. It passes by fast from that

point on, believe me.

My little " babies " are now 11 and 12. In 6 years, they'll be

preparing for college and living outside our house. I don't know

where the time went.

-Kyla

>

> Since my wedding is coming up in October, I've been thinking more

and more

> about having children. I've always wanted children, and I've

pretty much

> decided that if I can't have them on my own, I will adopt (my

fiancee really

> wants us to try for our own first, though).

> Anyway, my natural response to thinking about kids, being a KO, is

fear. I'm

> afraid of turning into her, and I'm afraid also (as has been shown

by my

> lack of discipline with my two cats) of becoming the exact

opposite - i.e.,

> too permissive.

> So, my question is, to those of who who have children, how do you

do it? How

> did you learn your current parenting style, if you're not

following the

> model set up for you during your own childhood? Did you take

classes? Read

> books? Just figure out things on your own? Any comments/advice

would be

> appreciated. Thanks!

>

[Guest guest]

Well, you can start your basic parenting philosphy with at least one

cornerstone: When you have kids, it's not about you anymore. It's

about them.

Your time won't be your own anymore.

You can't indulge any strong emotions you're having.

You can't try to control everything anymore.

You'll lose sleep. You'll learn to function anyway.

You'll give love.

You'll get love.

Your job is to love them, feed them, clothe them -- recognize their

God-given special gifts. Build them up -- encourage them. Invite

them to help you in some small way.

Make sure they look nice when they're supposed to.

Eat dinner together as much as you can.

Your house will be messier. Keep as organized as you can, but don't

punish yourself if some of it gets away from you. I've found those

things go in cycles.

No raging.

Recognize when you need time alone.

Show them that YOU have interests of your own, but not so much that

all they see is a distracted and stressed mother.

Take them to the park.

Focus on loving them -- building them up. The rest will fall into

place.

Laugh a lot. Hug a lot. Love a lot.

Remember that your time with them -- while seeming to stretch before

you endlessly -- is short. Your " window " of opportunity with them

closes after a certain time, and they become part of the larger

world. So, enjoy your special time in the coccoon, before they

start school and all of that stuff. It passes by fast from that

point on, believe me.

My little " babies " are now 11 and 12. In 6 years, they'll be

preparing for college and living outside our house. I don't know

where the time went.

-Kyla

>

> Since my wedding is coming up in October, I've been thinking more

and more

> about having children. I've always wanted children, and I've

pretty much

> decided that if I can't have them on my own, I will adopt (my

fiancee really

> wants us to try for our own first, though).

> Anyway, my natural response to thinking about kids, being a KO, is

fear. I'm

> afraid of turning into her, and I'm afraid also (as has been shown

by my

> lack of discipline with my two cats) of becoming the exact

opposite - i.e.,

> too permissive.

> So, my question is, to those of who who have children, how do you

do it? How

> did you learn your current parenting style, if you're not

following the

> model set up for you during your own childhood? Did you take

classes? Read

> books? Just figure out things on your own? Any comments/advice

would be

> appreciated. Thanks!

>

[Guest guest]

I'm curious to read the other responses in this thread. I used to

think I wanted children, but the older I get, the more I'm undecided

about it. I think this also has a lot to do with learning more about

BPD and just how screwed up my own childhood was. I don't think I

would be a bad parent, but the associations in my mind of the role

of " mother " is so negative. Wheras most people see love, nurturing,

strength, grace, etc., I see trapped, obsessed, martyr, boring, out-of-

touch with other adults, etc. I never had a healthy example of

motherhood, and any exposure I had to other adult females in life was

squandered or restricted because nada was so jealous and threatened of

any other adult having influence in our lives. I don't think of

motherhood as being a positive experience, which is why it terrifies

me. But on the other hand, I know that at one point I wanted that, and

sometimes I wonder if my current disgust at the idea is some sort of

self-preservation mechanism. Sometimes I try so hard NOT to be like

her in every way (motherhood was her only " love " and her only badge of

honor, ironically enough; she had no interest in anything else), that I

could be keeping myself from things in life that I could truly enjoy.

[Guest guest]

I'm curious to read the other responses in this thread. I used to

think I wanted children, but the older I get, the more I'm undecided

about it. I think this also has a lot to do with learning more about

BPD and just how screwed up my own childhood was. I don't think I

would be a bad parent, but the associations in my mind of the role

of " mother " is so negative. Wheras most people see love, nurturing,

strength, grace, etc., I see trapped, obsessed, martyr, boring, out-of-

touch with other adults, etc. I never had a healthy example of

motherhood, and any exposure I had to other adult females in life was

squandered or restricted because nada was so jealous and threatened of

any other adult having influence in our lives. I don't think of

motherhood as being a positive experience, which is why it terrifies

me. But on the other hand, I know that at one point I wanted that, and

sometimes I wonder if my current disgust at the idea is some sort of

self-preservation mechanism. Sometimes I try so hard NOT to be like

her in every way (motherhood was her only " love " and her only badge of

honor, ironically enough; she had no interest in anything else), that I

could be keeping myself from things in life that I could truly enjoy.

[Guest guest]

I have nothing but the highest RESPECT for people like you who are

considerate enough of the tough job that parenting is -- to stop,

look and carefully consider whether or not it's for you.

It totally takes over your life. Your focus, your time, your money -

- all go that direction when you have kids.

I have a dear friend of many years who knew it wasn't for her and

she and her husband have a GREAT life. And believe me, there is no

shortage of children -- teenagers, really -- who have crossed her

path and she has been a wonderful mentor to them. She has no

regrets, and has enough money that she has set aside some for

college for her niece and nephew. What a nice thing to do!

There are plenty of ways you can nurture children without having

ones of your own. If anyone tells you you're selfish, they're

jealous!

If someone says " But who will take care of you when you're old? "

Tell them, " Well, I wouldn't have kids so that I'd have a guaranteed

staff around when I'm old. "

There's no law requiring us only to interact with our own children --

there's a whole world out there. You don't have to have children

if you don't want to.

Good for you -- Parenthood is a serious commitment. I wish someone

had told my mother never to have kids. She had me 9 months after

the wedding. She was 19 when I was born. Still a child herself

(still is at 65!!) Ill-equipped to be selfless enough to raise a

child properly.

Good for you for assessing whether it's for you. Make your decision

with a clear conscience.

-Kyla

>

> I'm curious to read the other responses in this thread. I used to

> think I wanted children, but the older I get, the more I'm

undecided

> about it. I think this also has a lot to do with learning more

about

> BPD and just how screwed up my own childhood was. I don't think I

> would be a bad parent, but the associations in my mind of the role

> of " mother " is so negative. Wheras most people see love,

nurturing,

> strength, grace, etc., I see trapped, obsessed, martyr, boring,

out-of-

> touch with other adults, etc. I never had a healthy example of

> motherhood, and any exposure I had to other adult females in life

was

> squandered or restricted because nada was so jealous and

threatened of

> any other adult having influence in our lives. I don't think of

> motherhood as being a positive experience, which is why it

terrifies

> me. But on the other hand, I know that at one point I wanted

that, and

> sometimes I wonder if my current disgust at the idea is some sort

of

> self-preservation mechanism. Sometimes I try so hard NOT to be

like

> her in every way (motherhood was her only " love " and her only

badge of

> honor, ironically enough; she had no interest in anything else),

that I

> could be keeping myself from things in life that I could truly

enjoy.

>

[Guest guest]

I have nothing but the highest RESPECT for people like you who are

considerate enough of the tough job that parenting is -- to stop,

look and carefully consider whether or not it's for you.

It totally takes over your life. Your focus, your time, your money -

- all go that direction when you have kids.

I have a dear friend of many years who knew it wasn't for her and

she and her husband have a GREAT life. And believe me, there is no

shortage of children -- teenagers, really -- who have crossed her

path and she has been a wonderful mentor to them. She has no

regrets, and has enough money that she has set aside some for

college for her niece and nephew. What a nice thing to do!

There are plenty of ways you can nurture children without having

ones of your own. If anyone tells you you're selfish, they're

jealous!

If someone says " But who will take care of you when you're old? "

Tell them, " Well, I wouldn't have kids so that I'd have a guaranteed

staff around when I'm old. "

There's no law requiring us only to interact with our own children --

there's a whole world out there. You don't have to have children

if you don't want to.

Good for you -- Parenthood is a serious commitment. I wish someone

had told my mother never to have kids. She had me 9 months after

the wedding. She was 19 when I was born. Still a child herself

(still is at 65!!) Ill-equipped to be selfless enough to raise a

child properly.

Good for you for assessing whether it's for you. Make your decision

with a clear conscience.

-Kyla

>

> I'm curious to read the other responses in this thread. I used to

> think I wanted children, but the older I get, the more I'm

undecided

> about it. I think this also has a lot to do with learning more

about

> BPD and just how screwed up my own childhood was. I don't think I

> would be a bad parent, but the associations in my mind of the role

> of " mother " is so negative. Wheras most people see love,

nurturing,

> strength, grace, etc., I see trapped, obsessed, martyr, boring,

out-of-

> touch with other adults, etc. I never had a healthy example of

> motherhood, and any exposure I had to other adult females in life

was

> squandered or restricted because nada was so jealous and

threatened of

> any other adult having influence in our lives. I don't think of

> motherhood as being a positive experience, which is why it

terrifies

> me. But on the other hand, I know that at one point I wanted

that, and

> sometimes I wonder if my current disgust at the idea is some sort

of

> self-preservation mechanism. Sometimes I try so hard NOT to be

like

> her in every way (motherhood was her only " love " and her only

badge of

> honor, ironically enough; she had no interest in anything else),

that I

> could be keeping myself from things in life that I could truly

enjoy.

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with Kyla that it's great you are assessing what you want. I

think there are many people who don't want children and that doesn't

make them a bad person. I have a good friend who is adamant about

not wanting kids, but she is wonderful with them and has a fabulous

relationship with her godson.

That being said, it seems like your thoughts revolve around fear

instead of knowing what you want and I can relate to this.

I was an only child and was raised by my mom so I did not have a good

role model either. My grandmothers were both good to me, but I lived

with my mom. My mom was very waify, martyr, always victim etc along

with being alcoholic, bipolar, and anorexic.

I always questioned whether I wanted kids too. I was not sure of

myself around them and thought I was too self centered to be a mom

(there's a negative message I learned).

In 2003 I was told I had polycysistic ovaries and probably could not

get pregnant and if I did, chances of miscarriage were strong. On

one hand I was relieved and the other hand devastated that my options

seemed to be removed. At least I did not need to wonder anymore. I

accepted this and figured kids were not meant to be for me.

I was given this diagnosis because I did not have regular cycles and

my doctor could find no other problems. She did not investigate

fully enough; I had one period in a year and got pregnant in 2004!

Someone said to me recently at work, " Don't put a period where God

wants a comma " and I think this applies here. I was terrified when I

found out I was pregnant- I was 8 weeks along and thought I had had

the flu for a month because I did not believe i could possibly be

pregnant- and I seriously considered not having the baby out of

fear. I was more terrified to be a parent than anything in the

world.

I made the decision to have my daughter and she's the best thing that

ever happened to me. I am not like my mother at all with her. Kids

don't come with instructions, but I have learned what NOT to do

because of my horrible childhood. I feel I have the complete manual

of what not to do.

Like you, I had negative feelings about motherhood but my daughter

has opened my heart in a whole new way. She is healing the trauma of

my wrecked childhood, I finally get to have a wonderful

mother/daughter relationship. There was a huge empty space inside of

me that is now filled because I feel unconditional love for the first

time in my life. I never felt that from my mom, but my daughters

love for me is pure and my love for her is endless. I would do

anything to protect her and nurture her although I must say I'm still

scared of when she becomes a teenager.

Parenting is difficult and challenging, but don't shut the door out

of fear. If you truly don't want kids, that's one thing and it's ok,

but we have to face our fears and not let them continue to rule our

lives.

Like Kyla, I feel my mom shouldn't have had me, she had a baby before

me that she gave up for adoption and several abortions after me. I

have always thought, why was I the " lucky " one? She was not

equipped or able to handle being a mom but I am not like her and I

have to fight those awful messages that play in my head as a result

of being raised by her.

I hope my words help and sorry for being so long. Only you can

determine what's right for you.

> >

> > I'm curious to read the other responses in this thread. I used

to

> > think I wanted children, but the older I get, the more I'm

> undecided

> > about it. I think this also has a lot to do with learning more

> about

> > BPD and just how screwed up my own childhood was. I don't think

I

> > would be a bad parent, but the associations in my mind of the

role

> > of " mother " is so negative. Wheras most people see love,

> nurturing,

> > strength, grace, etc., I see trapped, obsessed, martyr, boring,

> out-of-

> > touch with other adults, etc. I never had a healthy example of

> > motherhood, and any exposure I had to other adult females in life

> was

> > squandered or restricted because nada was so jealous and

> threatened of

> > any other adult having influence in our lives. I don't think of

> > motherhood as being a positive experience, which is why it

> terrifies

> > me. But on the other hand, I know that at one point I wanted

> that, and

> > sometimes I wonder if my current disgust at the idea is some sort

> of

> > self-preservation mechanism. Sometimes I try so hard NOT to be

> like

> > her in every way (motherhood was her only " love " and her only

> badge of

> > honor, ironically enough; she had no interest in anything else),

> that I

> > could be keeping myself from things in life that I could truly

> enjoy.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with Kyla that it's great you are assessing what you want. I

think there are many people who don't want children and that doesn't

make them a bad person. I have a good friend who is adamant about

not wanting kids, but she is wonderful with them and has a fabulous

relationship with her godson.

That being said, it seems like your thoughts revolve around fear

instead of knowing what you want and I can relate to this.

I was an only child and was raised by my mom so I did not have a good

role model either. My grandmothers were both good to me, but I lived

with my mom. My mom was very waify, martyr, always victim etc along

with being alcoholic, bipolar, and anorexic.

I always questioned whether I wanted kids too. I was not sure of

myself around them and thought I was too self centered to be a mom

(there's a negative message I learned).

In 2003 I was told I had polycysistic ovaries and probably could not

get pregnant and if I did, chances of miscarriage were strong. On

one hand I was relieved and the other hand devastated that my options

seemed to be removed. At least I did not need to wonder anymore. I

accepted this and figured kids were not meant to be for me.

I was given this diagnosis because I did not have regular cycles and

my doctor could find no other problems. She did not investigate

fully enough; I had one period in a year and got pregnant in 2004!

Someone said to me recently at work, " Don't put a period where God

wants a comma " and I think this applies here. I was terrified when I

found out I was pregnant- I was 8 weeks along and thought I had had

the flu for a month because I did not believe i could possibly be

pregnant- and I seriously considered not having the baby out of

fear. I was more terrified to be a parent than anything in the

world.

I made the decision to have my daughter and she's the best thing that

ever happened to me. I am not like my mother at all with her. Kids

don't come with instructions, but I have learned what NOT to do

because of my horrible childhood. I feel I have the complete manual

of what not to do.

Like you, I had negative feelings about motherhood but my daughter

has opened my heart in a whole new way. She is healing the trauma of

my wrecked childhood, I finally get to have a wonderful

mother/daughter relationship. There was a huge empty space inside of

me that is now filled because I feel unconditional love for the first

time in my life. I never felt that from my mom, but my daughters

love for me is pure and my love for her is endless. I would do

anything to protect her and nurture her although I must say I'm still

scared of when she becomes a teenager.

Parenting is difficult and challenging, but don't shut the door out

of fear. If you truly don't want kids, that's one thing and it's ok,

but we have to face our fears and not let them continue to rule our

lives.

Like Kyla, I feel my mom shouldn't have had me, she had a baby before

me that she gave up for adoption and several abortions after me. I

have always thought, why was I the " lucky " one? She was not

equipped or able to handle being a mom but I am not like her and I

have to fight those awful messages that play in my head as a result

of being raised by her.

I hope my words help and sorry for being so long. Only you can

determine what's right for you.

> >

> > I'm curious to read the other responses in this thread. I used

to

> > think I wanted children, but the older I get, the more I'm

> undecided

> > about it. I think this also has a lot to do with learning more

> about

> > BPD and just how screwed up my own childhood was. I don't think

I

> > would be a bad parent, but the associations in my mind of the

role

> > of " mother " is so negative. Wheras most people see love,

> nurturing,

> > strength, grace, etc., I see trapped, obsessed, martyr, boring,

> out-of-

> > touch with other adults, etc. I never had a healthy example of

> > motherhood, and any exposure I had to other adult females in life

> was

> > squandered or restricted because nada was so jealous and

> threatened of

> > any other adult having influence in our lives. I don't think of

> > motherhood as being a positive experience, which is why it

> terrifies

> > me. But on the other hand, I know that at one point I wanted

> that, and

> > sometimes I wonder if my current disgust at the idea is some sort

> of

> > self-preservation mechanism. Sometimes I try so hard NOT to be

> like

> > her in every way (motherhood was her only " love " and her only

> badge of

> > honor, ironically enough; she had no interest in anything else),

> that I

> > could be keeping myself from things in life that I could truly

> enjoy.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with Kyla that it's great you are assessing what you want. I

think there are many people who don't want children and that doesn't

make them a bad person. I have a good friend who is adamant about

not wanting kids, but she is wonderful with them and has a fabulous

relationship with her godson.

That being said, it seems like your thoughts revolve around fear

instead of knowing what you want and I can relate to this.

I was an only child and was raised by my mom so I did not have a good

role model either. My grandmothers were both good to me, but I lived

with my mom. My mom was very waify, martyr, always victim etc along

with being alcoholic, bipolar, and anorexic.

I always questioned whether I wanted kids too. I was not sure of

myself around them and thought I was too self centered to be a mom

(there's a negative message I learned).

In 2003 I was told I had polycysistic ovaries and probably could not

get pregnant and if I did, chances of miscarriage were strong. On

one hand I was relieved and the other hand devastated that my options

seemed to be removed. At least I did not need to wonder anymore. I

accepted this and figured kids were not meant to be for me.

I was given this diagnosis because I did not have regular cycles and

my doctor could find no other problems. She did not investigate

fully enough; I had one period in a year and got pregnant in 2004!

Someone said to me recently at work, " Don't put a period where God

wants a comma " and I think this applies here. I was terrified when I

found out I was pregnant- I was 8 weeks along and thought I had had

the flu for a month because I did not believe i could possibly be

pregnant- and I seriously considered not having the baby out of

fear. I was more terrified to be a parent than anything in the

world.

I made the decision to have my daughter and she's the best thing that

ever happened to me. I am not like my mother at all with her. Kids

don't come with instructions, but I have learned what NOT to do

because of my horrible childhood. I feel I have the complete manual

of what not to do.

Like you, I had negative feelings about motherhood but my daughter

has opened my heart in a whole new way. She is healing the trauma of

my wrecked childhood, I finally get to have a wonderful

mother/daughter relationship. There was a huge empty space inside of

me that is now filled because I feel unconditional love for the first

time in my life. I never felt that from my mom, but my daughters

love for me is pure and my love for her is endless. I would do

anything to protect her and nurture her although I must say I'm still

scared of when she becomes a teenager.

Parenting is difficult and challenging, but don't shut the door out

of fear. If you truly don't want kids, that's one thing and it's ok,

but we have to face our fears and not let them continue to rule our

lives.

Like Kyla, I feel my mom shouldn't have had me, she had a baby before

me that she gave up for adoption and several abortions after me. I

have always thought, why was I the " lucky " one? She was not

equipped or able to handle being a mom but I am not like her and I

have to fight those awful messages that play in my head as a result

of being raised by her.

I hope my words help and sorry for being so long. Only you can

determine what's right for you.

> >

> > I'm curious to read the other responses in this thread. I used

to

> > think I wanted children, but the older I get, the more I'm

> undecided

> > about it. I think this also has a lot to do with learning more

> about

> > BPD and just how screwed up my own childhood was. I don't think

I

> > would be a bad parent, but the associations in my mind of the

role

> > of " mother " is so negative. Wheras most people see love,

> nurturing,

> > strength, grace, etc., I see trapped, obsessed, martyr, boring,

> out-of-

> > touch with other adults, etc. I never had a healthy example of

> > motherhood, and any exposure I had to other adult females in life

> was

> > squandered or restricted because nada was so jealous and

> threatened of

> > any other adult having influence in our lives. I don't think of

> > motherhood as being a positive experience, which is why it

> terrifies

> > me. But on the other hand, I know that at one point I wanted

> that, and

> > sometimes I wonder if my current disgust at the idea is some sort

> of

> > self-preservation mechanism. Sometimes I try so hard NOT to be

> like

> > her in every way (motherhood was her only " love " and her only

> badge of

> > honor, ironically enough; she had no interest in anything else),

> that I

> > could be keeping myself from things in life that I could truly

> enjoy.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the understanding words. Honestly, I just wish it was

easier for me to decide. The thought of a life never having kids does

seem incomplete, but the thought of it right now scares the bejesus out

of me. I'm still young, so there's time, but the years come faster and

faster, and I don't want to miss that fertility window. I guess it

seems like everyone else just *knows* whether they want kids or not.

Why is it so hard for me? Sometimes I wish I could just remove nada

from my mental equation. I think if she was out of the picture, I

would lean much more heavily towards having kids. Because she's so

obsessed with motherhood, and thinks it's my destiny, I feel like

having them would be a " win " for her, because I would be succumbing to

the 1950s psychotic vision she has for me and all women (she's quite

the anti-feminist).

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the understanding words. Honestly, I just wish it was

easier for me to decide. The thought of a life never having kids does

seem incomplete, but the thought of it right now scares the bejesus out

of me. I'm still young, so there's time, but the years come faster and

faster, and I don't want to miss that fertility window. I guess it

seems like everyone else just *knows* whether they want kids or not.

Why is it so hard for me? Sometimes I wish I could just remove nada

from my mental equation. I think if she was out of the picture, I

would lean much more heavily towards having kids. Because she's so

obsessed with motherhood, and thinks it's my destiny, I feel like

having them would be a " win " for her, because I would be succumbing to

the 1950s psychotic vision she has for me and all women (she's quite

the anti-feminist).

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the understanding words. Honestly, I just wish it was

easier for me to decide. The thought of a life never having kids does

seem incomplete, but the thought of it right now scares the bejesus out

of me. I'm still young, so there's time, but the years come faster and

faster, and I don't want to miss that fertility window. I guess it

seems like everyone else just *knows* whether they want kids or not.

Why is it so hard for me? Sometimes I wish I could just remove nada

from my mental equation. I think if she was out of the picture, I

would lean much more heavily towards having kids. Because she's so

obsessed with motherhood, and thinks it's my destiny, I feel like

having them would be a " win " for her, because I would be succumbing to

the 1950s psychotic vision she has for me and all women (she's quite

the anti-feminist).

[Guest guest]

Sometimes I wish the decision would be made for me, though, like in

your case (either way), like knowing I couldn't have them or getting

pregant by " surprise " . It would kind of take the pressure off me

mentally, knowing that it's not ultimately up to me. I'm not a

religious person, and feel that we all choose our own destinies...

[Guest guest]

Sometimes I wish the decision would be made for me, though, like in

your case (either way), like knowing I couldn't have them or getting

pregant by " surprise " . It would kind of take the pressure off me

mentally, knowing that it's not ultimately up to me. I'm not a

religious person, and feel that we all choose our own destinies...

[Guest guest]

Sometimes I wish the decision would be made for me, though, like in

your case (either way), like knowing I couldn't have them or getting

pregant by " surprise " . It would kind of take the pressure off me

mentally, knowing that it's not ultimately up to me. I'm not a

religious person, and feel that we all choose our own destinies...

[Guest guest]

Hey -- you're overthinking it. You can snap over in an instant -- I

did. Quit worrying about it -- unless you're leaning on the side of

NOT having them. Then be very careful.

If you'll let it go for awhile, the thoughts might take on a new form

the next time they enter your mind.

{hugs}

Kyla

>

> Sometimes I wish the decision would be made for me, though, like in

> your case (either way), like knowing I couldn't have them or getting

> pregant by " surprise " . It would kind of take the pressure off me

> mentally, knowing that it's not ultimately up to me. I'm not a

> religious person, and feel that we all choose our own destinies...

>

[Guest guest]

Hey -- you're overthinking it. You can snap over in an instant -- I

did. Quit worrying about it -- unless you're leaning on the side of

NOT having them. Then be very careful.

If you'll let it go for awhile, the thoughts might take on a new form

the next time they enter your mind.

{hugs}

Kyla

>

> Sometimes I wish the decision would be made for me, though, like in

> your case (either way), like knowing I couldn't have them or getting

> pregant by " surprise " . It would kind of take the pressure off me

> mentally, knowing that it's not ultimately up to me. I'm not a

> religious person, and feel that we all choose our own destinies...

>

[Guest guest]

Hey -- you're overthinking it. You can snap over in an instant -- I

did. Quit worrying about it -- unless you're leaning on the side of

NOT having them. Then be very careful.

If you'll let it go for awhile, the thoughts might take on a new form

the next time they enter your mind.

{hugs}

Kyla

>

> Sometimes I wish the decision would be made for me, though, like in

> your case (either way), like knowing I couldn't have them or getting

> pregant by " surprise " . It would kind of take the pressure off me

> mentally, knowing that it's not ultimately up to me. I'm not a

> religious person, and feel that we all choose our own destinies...

>

[Guest guest]

thanks for the validation, even though it wasn't my thread ;-) I did not

have kids as I was scared I'd treat them like my mother treated me...and

yes, nada did tell me I was selfish for not having kids....she's also sad

the samething about who will take care of me when I'm old...

I have been a 4-H leader for the past 20 years !

Jackie

>I have a dear friend of many years who knew it wasn't for her and

she and her husband have a GREAT life. And believe me, there is no

shortage of children -- teenagers, really -- who have crossed her

>path and she has been a wonderful mentor to them. She has no

regrets, and has enough money that she has set aside some for

>college for her niece and nephew. What a nice thing to do!

>There are plenty of ways you can nurture children without having

ones of your own. If anyone tells you you're selfish, they're

>jealous!

[Guest guest]

thanks for the validation, even though it wasn't my thread ;-) I did not

have kids as I was scared I'd treat them like my mother treated me...and

yes, nada did tell me I was selfish for not having kids....she's also sad

the samething about who will take care of me when I'm old...

I have been a 4-H leader for the past 20 years !

Jackie

>I have a dear friend of many years who knew it wasn't for her and

she and her husband have a GREAT life. And believe me, there is no

shortage of children -- teenagers, really -- who have crossed her

>path and she has been a wonderful mentor to them. She has no

regrets, and has enough money that she has set aside some for

>college for her niece and nephew. What a nice thing to do!

>There are plenty of ways you can nurture children without having

ones of your own. If anyone tells you you're selfish, they're

>jealous!

[Guest guest]

thanks for the validation, even though it wasn't my thread ;-) I did not

have kids as I was scared I'd treat them like my mother treated me...and

yes, nada did tell me I was selfish for not having kids....she's also sad

the samething about who will take care of me when I'm old...

I have been a 4-H leader for the past 20 years !

Jackie

>I have a dear friend of many years who knew it wasn't for her and

she and her husband have a GREAT life. And believe me, there is no

shortage of children -- teenagers, really -- who have crossed her

>path and she has been a wonderful mentor to them. She has no

regrets, and has enough money that she has set aside some for

>college for her niece and nephew. What a nice thing to do!

>There are plenty of ways you can nurture children without having

ones of your own. If anyone tells you you're selfish, they're

>jealous!

[Guest guest]

So glad you asked. Parenthood has a special significance to me. I

understood what was wrong in how my mother acted, but as her child,

I could do nothing about it. I went on to raise two children as a

single parent, and I have a very good relationship with both of

them. But, there are definitely things I would have done

differently, if I had known then what I know now.

I think therapy (with a good therapist) will be a tremendous help

for a KO who is/or who is going to be a parent. We have to overcome

the effects of our BP parent. As a parent, I was still plagued with

lack of self esteem and self confidence. My children did know that

they were loved, but I wish I had spent more time with them instead

of 'doing' for them (cooking, laundry, cleaning). I did my best to

not be like my nada, and I was successful in that. I knew what NOT

to do, but I often didn't know what TO do. What I did that was good

was: I always told them the truth, even if it was sometime - that

is something I can't tell you about, or that is something I don't

want to tell you about. I tucked them into bed everynight and told

them I loved them every day. I did my best to be happy and cheerful

in the morning and get them off to a good start for the day. I

talked to them about their problems, asked them about their thoughts

and ideas, and respected those thoughts and ideas. I offered

suggestions when they had problems, told them what I thought

could/could not happen based upon possible choices, but often would

leave the final choice up to them - as well as dealing with the

consequences of their choices. I told them that it was okay to make

mistakes, that they were loved just because they were my children,

and they knew that they didn't have to do anything to earn that

love. I taught them how to problem solve, I taught them how to deal

with daily responsibilities. I taught them that being adult, and

self supporting was a wonderful thing.

What I wish I would have done - spend more time doing fun things

with them. (My flea - that I didn't deserve having fun.) And of

course, if I had felt more self-confident about myself that would

have had a big impact on my dynamics with my children. I felt very

guilty about being a single parent. It is still hard for me to

remember that this was only 50% my fault. I also had a problem with

discipling. That was again due to lack of self-esteem. I was

fortunate that my children didn't have problems that required strong

discipline. I think I was probably at times enmeshed with them,

although I had an awareness of when I was going overboard with

emotions, and so I did take measure to regulate this. Having more

fun times is what I seriously regret now. They knew they were

loved, but I think they also knew that their mom was fighting

demons. I wish I had slayed those demons instead.

Sylvia

I was in therapy when they were teenagers. That was very helpful

for me.

>

> Since my wedding is coming up in October, I've been thinking more

and more

> about having children. I've always wanted children, and I've

pretty much

> decided that if I can't have them on my own, I will adopt (my

fiancee really

> wants us to try for our own first, though).

> Anyway, my natural response to thinking about kids, being a KO, is

fear. I'm

> afraid of turning into her, and I'm afraid also (as has been shown

by my

> lack of discipline with my two cats) of becoming the exact

opposite - i.e.,

> too permissive.

> So, my question is, to those of who who have children, how do you

do it? How

> did you learn your current parenting style, if you're not

following the

> model set up for you during your own childhood? Did you take

classes? Read

> books? Just figure out things on your own? Any comments/advice

would be

> appreciated. Thanks!

>