Guest guest Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Could you please comment on the quiet sounds to which we are sensitive? Unless I'm on the wrong site, we are not reactive to loud sounds. We are reactive to soft sounds. Soft Sound Sensitivity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old > >daughter is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to > >sounds. > > > > > > >It pains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can > >only > > > > > > >offer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, > >I > > > > > > >know, to her, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice > >about > > > > > > >where to start > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her > >regular > > > > > > >doctor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Could you please comment on the quiet sounds to which we are sensitive? Unless I'm on the wrong site, we are not reactive to loud sounds. We are reactive to soft sounds. Soft Sound Sensitivity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old > >daughter is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to > >sounds. > > > > > > >It pains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can > >only > > > > > > >offer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, > >I > > > > > > >know, to her, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice > >about > > > > > > >where to start > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her > >regular > > > > > > >doctor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 anthony has not yet addressed misophonia in his responses. and its not in the 19th century textbooks. we must move on. ENT's and neuroscientists don't believe its a hearing problem. innocuous soft sounds are incorrectly interpreted(in the brain) as " danger " leading to a fight/flight fear response which becomes conditioned over time. this fear conditioning leads to a whole host of secondary psych issues which need to be treated. a neuroscientist told me a psychologist would be much more helpful than an audiologist. he contributed to the nytimes article of joyce cohen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old > > >daughter is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to > > >sounds. > > > > > > > > >It pains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can > > >only > > > > > > > > >offer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, > > >I > > > > > > > > >know, to her, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice > > >about > > > > > > > > >where to start > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her > > >regular > > > > > > > > >doctor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 THERE SHOULD BE NO ONE LEAVING THIS GROUP BECAUSE OF DISCOMFORT CAUSED BY ONE OR A FEW. IF I AM DEEMED TO BE ONE OF THEM, THEN I REQUEST THAT THE MODERATOR ACT APPROPRIATELY. This site is for sufferers of Soft Sound Sensitivity/Misophonia to find answers and hope and comraderie. If you look at the style of the contributors, you'll find respectful and easy-to-understand hypotheses or questions and then an open floor for discussion and sharing. You will rarely find a know-it-all attitude being tolerated. You are indeed MOST highly educated and INCREDIBLY learned and your language is not easily understood by most. Since the civilians on this site do not share their research without making sure others can understand it, I expect you would too just out of simple respect. If the expectation is incorrect, please consider it a request. Also, I do not see people on this site diagnosing one another or spouting facts on our way to answers. You post your facts and then point out later that they are theories. I too am a bona-fide researcher: I work on my own disorder because I am intimately familiar with what fits and what doesn't and I keep it to myself until I have something that makes sense. I am blatantly pointing out that even IF you are spot-on in what you are saying it is not at all useful since your tone and verbiage are not consistent with the expectations and abilities of this group. Also, I (and others who used to) have not been posting anything of importance on this board since I have been doing nothing but trying to protect the integrity and keep the decency of the group intact and working to keep you from alarming and out-talking everyone else. I have too much at stake in this endeavor and do my level best to avoid being identified with that old expression: If you can't dazzle them with intelligence, baffle them with bullsh**. Warm Regards, Adah Siganoff Misophonia Suffer and now public with it on The Today Show and in the NY Times and reprinted all over the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter > > >is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to > > >sounds. > > > > > > >It pains > > > > > > > > > > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can > > >only > > > > > > >offer > > > > > > > > > > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I > > > >know, to her, > > > > > > > > > > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about > > > >where to start > > > > > > > > > > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular > > > > > > >doctor > > > > > > > > > > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Thank you Adah! I recognize you as a respected " elder " to our community and I appreciate your words of protection and clarification. I hope that Mr. may take a breather from waxing theoretical for awhile. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter > > > >is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to > > > >sounds. > > > > > > > > >It pains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can > > > >only > > > > > > > > >offer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I > > > > >know, to her, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about > > > > >where to start > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular > > > > > > > > >doctor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Quote from Oxford Textbook of Medicine 2010; " Psychological stress has always been implicated in peptic ulcer disease but there is little scientific evidence to confirm the correlation " . I do not therefore feel inclined to pursue this line any further. The point is not so much that the stress theory was wrong, but that it totally blocked other more productive approaches for half a century. Marshall had to drink the toxic bacterium himself before anyone took him seriously. I cannot think of any plausible cochlear mechanism for sensitivity to moderate or quiet sounds, but not to loud sounds. So, there may indeed be no current cochlear abnormality in many misophonics. However, the relevant question is, What was the state of the cochlea in the long distant past when MA began? Thank you for your detailed attention to my posts. I will be responding to the others in due course after checking the literature again. ********************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚Â > > > > > > > > > > Are you an Audiologist or ENT?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > From: anthony g <aggordon2003@> > > > > > > > > > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 1:14 PM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Where to start? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚Â > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much for the extra information, which I think confirms > > > > >an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >otological cause. Grommets in the eardrum allow air to enter the > > > > >middle ear, so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >that no more fluid collects in there. Sometimes these can over-aerate > > > > >the ME, so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >that the mucous membrane dries out and dehydrates, predisposing to low > > > > >inner ear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >pressure and a hyperactive cochlea. Otologists may disagree with this > > > > >proposed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >mechanism, but certainly some children become audiosensitive after > > > > >grommet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >insertion. Although I have not seen this myself, it is now reported > > > > >that a late > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >consequence in young women is Patulous Eustachian Tube (see > > > > >Wikipedia), again > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >probably a long-term result of dehydration. I sugest you specifically > > > > >ask the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >doctor to check for PET. One sign is chalk patches on the eardrum > > > > > > > > > >(tympanosclerosis), due I also suspect to over-aeration of the > > > > >eardrum. There > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >should be enough info on the web for you two to work out if your > > > > >daughter has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >PET. If so, be prepared, in fact > > > > > > > > > > well-prepared, as many doctors will be dismissive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Apart from obvious middle ear infections, there is basically one common cause for fluctuating auditory problems, Meniere Spectrum Disorder (endolymphatic hydrops). I am pretty sure the fluctuation is due to variation in body hydration altering inner ear pressure. Hearing is characteristically muffled or distorted. There may be a feeling of pressure/fullness in the ear, as if it were full of water. Audiosensitivity (ie to loud sounds) will also vary along with the state of the ear, although it may be the only symptom of MSD at any one time. Some of the triggers may be conditioned reflexes to previous noises, and may well be an overgeneralised reaction. If I were testing such a person, I would rely on careful and repeated pure tone audiometry to detect slight low tone losses or fluctuant hearing but still within normal limits; a test for diplacusis; check for lowered stapedial reflex thresholds. However, I still think a convincing history trumps negative tests. ********************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old > >daughter is > > > > > > > > > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to > >sounds. It pains > > > > > > > > > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can > >only offer > > > > > > > > > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, > >I know, to her, > > > > > > > > > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice > >about where to start > > > > > > > > > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her > >regular doctor > > > > > > > > > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 hi maikaefer, yes aage moeller is the neuroscientist. i located his email address in texas and fired him an email to see if he could help all of the people(including my son) who suffer with misophonia daily. he was nice enough to answer my questions promptly and courteously,mentioning he had written a book on tinnitus which included a section on misophonia. he was consulted in joyce cohens article in the nytimes. i asked him if an audiologist or a psychologist would be more benefit and he said the psych dr. he also promised he would bring up misophonia and need for research at the next int'l conference he is attending. he is extremely intelligent and told me he will try to help. > > > > > > > > > > I do not have misophonia, but sometimes if I wake up with a blocked ear I > > > >find the radio too loud (audiosensitivity, due to endolymphatic hydrops). I am > > > >pretty sure I know the cause of audiosensitivity, but even if I am wrong, it > > > >must be far easier to find out the cause of AS than MA, and they are clearly > > > >related in some way. I think the experts agree there is a much raised incidence > > > >of ear problems in MA. > > > > > The reason I am on this site and not on the more ENT/medical/hyperacusis > > > >sites is that I think it is vitally important for everyone, especially someone > > > >like myself with unorthodox views, to avoid the " Filter Bubble " or Echo Chamber > > > >effect. We all, patients and doctors need constant exposure to uncomfortable > > > >ideas. So the quickest way to get me off this site is to start agreeing with my > > > >theories, as I will then think that at long last they are being taken seriously > > > >and my experimental AS results will be checked, so that I can then move on to > > > >some other topic. > > > > > > > > > You say I am misdiagnosing you, yet you admit to having some of the problems > > > >on my list below (which ones?), any one of which flags up the ear. It makes no > > > >difference what the cause of any ear problem is, and loudness perception in the > > > >cochlea changes with age. > > > > > Audiosensitivity involves aversion to loud sounds, but all sound are not > > > >equal. It is always worse for sharp high-pitch sounds. > > > > > So if you are interested in trying to work out the cause of MA, and in seeing > > > >things from a different angle, you should certainly stay on this site. > > > >Misophonics are going to have to sort this out by themselves, as doctors are > > > >years behind the curve. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 john c. please stay on the site. i feel the same way. i sought out Aage Moeller because he is an intelligent authority on the subject. i told i wanted to help my son and others. he was/is very gracious and has agreed to bring up the subject of misophonia at the TRI int'l conference this month. he has already briefed scientists and will argue to include misophonia as an area to begin research on. i am beyond thrilled at him being " onboard " . so it kinda grates on me when other " know it alls " come on this site to diagnose ear diseases from the 1800's. this site should be about helping persons suffering with misophonia. > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not have misophonia, but sometimes if I wake up with a blocked ear I > > > > >find the radio too loud (audiosensitivity, due to endolymphatic hydrops). I am > > > > >pretty sure I know the cause of audiosensitivity, but even if I am wrong, it > > > > >must be far easier to find out the cause of AS than MA, and they are clearly > > > > >related in some way. I think the experts agree there is a much raised incidence > > > > >of ear problems in MA. > > > > > > The reason I am on this site and not on the more ENT/medical/hyperacusis > > > > >sites is that I think it is vitally important for everyone, especially someone > > > > >like myself with unorthodox views, to avoid the " Filter Bubble " or Echo Chamber > > > > >effect. We all, patients and doctors need constant exposure to uncomfortable > > > > >ideas. So the quickest way to get me off this site is to start agreeing with my > > > > >theories, as I will then think that at long last they are being taken seriously > > > > >and my experimental AS results will be checked, so that I can then move on to > > > > >some other topic. > > > > > > > > > > > You say I am misdiagnosing you, yet you admit to having some of the problems > > > > >on my list below (which ones?), any one of which flags up the ear. It makes no > > > > >difference what the cause of any ear problem is, and loudness perception in the > > > > >cochlea changes with age. > > > > > > Audiosensitivity involves aversion to loud sounds, but all sound are not > > > > >equal. It is always worse for sharp high-pitch sounds. > > > > > > So if you are interested in trying to work out the cause of MA, and in seeing > > > > >things from a different angle, you should certainly stay on this site. > > > > >Misophonics are going to have to sort this out by themselves, as doctors are > > > > >years behind the curve. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 john c. please stay on the site. i feel the same way. i sought out Aage Moeller because he is an intelligent authority on the subject. i told i wanted to help my son and others. he was/is very gracious and has agreed to bring up the subject of misophonia at the TRI int'l conference this month. he has already briefed scientists and will argue to include misophonia as an area to begin research on. i am beyond thrilled at him being " onboard " . so it kinda grates on me when other " know it alls " come on this site to diagnose ear diseases from the 1800's. this site should be about helping persons suffering with misophonia. > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not have misophonia, but sometimes if I wake up with a blocked ear I > > > > >find the radio too loud (audiosensitivity, due to endolymphatic hydrops). I am > > > > >pretty sure I know the cause of audiosensitivity, but even if I am wrong, it > > > > >must be far easier to find out the cause of AS than MA, and they are clearly > > > > >related in some way. I think the experts agree there is a much raised incidence > > > > >of ear problems in MA. > > > > > > The reason I am on this site and not on the more ENT/medical/hyperacusis > > > > >sites is that I think it is vitally important for everyone, especially someone > > > > >like myself with unorthodox views, to avoid the " Filter Bubble " or Echo Chamber > > > > >effect. We all, patients and doctors need constant exposure to uncomfortable > > > > >ideas. So the quickest way to get me off this site is to start agreeing with my > > > > >theories, as I will then think that at long last they are being taken seriously > > > > >and my experimental AS results will be checked, so that I can then move on to > > > > >some other topic. > > > > > > > > > > > You say I am misdiagnosing you, yet you admit to having some of the problems > > > > >on my list below (which ones?), any one of which flags up the ear. It makes no > > > > >difference what the cause of any ear problem is, and loudness perception in the > > > > >cochlea changes with age. > > > > > > Audiosensitivity involves aversion to loud sounds, but all sound are not > > > > >equal. It is always worse for sharp high-pitch sounds. > > > > > > So if you are interested in trying to work out the cause of MA, and in seeing > > > > >things from a different angle, you should certainly stay on this site. > > > > >Misophonics are going to have to sort this out by themselves, as doctors are > > > > >years behind the curve. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 john c. please stay on the site. i feel the same way. i sought out Aage Moeller because he is an intelligent authority on the subject. i told i wanted to help my son and others. he was/is very gracious and has agreed to bring up the subject of misophonia at the TRI int'l conference this month. he has already briefed scientists and will argue to include misophonia as an area to begin research on. i am beyond thrilled at him being " onboard " . so it kinda grates on me when other " know it alls " come on this site to diagnose ear diseases from the 1800's. this site should be about helping persons suffering with misophonia. > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not have misophonia, but sometimes if I wake up with a blocked ear I > > > > >find the radio too loud (audiosensitivity, due to endolymphatic hydrops). I am > > > > >pretty sure I know the cause of audiosensitivity, but even if I am wrong, it > > > > >must be far easier to find out the cause of AS than MA, and they are clearly > > > > >related in some way. I think the experts agree there is a much raised incidence > > > > >of ear problems in MA. > > > > > > The reason I am on this site and not on the more ENT/medical/hyperacusis > > > > >sites is that I think it is vitally important for everyone, especially someone > > > > >like myself with unorthodox views, to avoid the " Filter Bubble " or Echo Chamber > > > > >effect. We all, patients and doctors need constant exposure to uncomfortable > > > > >ideas. So the quickest way to get me off this site is to start agreeing with my > > > > >theories, as I will then think that at long last they are being taken seriously > > > > >and my experimental AS results will be checked, so that I can then move on to > > > > >some other topic. > > > > > > > > > > > You say I am misdiagnosing you, yet you admit to having some of the problems > > > > >on my list below (which ones?), any one of which flags up the ear. It makes no > > > > >difference what the cause of any ear problem is, and loudness perception in the > > > > >cochlea changes with age. > > > > > > Audiosensitivity involves aversion to loud sounds, but all sound are not > > > > >equal. It is always worse for sharp high-pitch sounds. > > > > > > So if you are interested in trying to work out the cause of MA, and in seeing > > > > >things from a different angle, you should certainly stay on this site. > > > > >Misophonics are going to have to sort this out by themselves, as doctors are > > > > >years behind the curve. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Although I have not been following this entire thread -- it's just too long -- early damage to the ears (ex. ear infections) could have caused hearing distortions. And these hearing distortions could be the reason the brain is misinterpreting the sounds, causing them to be filtered by the limbic system. I don't know if this is true or not, but it doesn't necessary have to be an " either/or cause " , or an " either/or solution. " For the record, I remember having more than one ear infection when I was young. Yet, based on personal intuition, I believe there is an underlying neurological dysfunction to this disorder. Though I have no proof either way. Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old > > > >daughter is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to > > > >sounds. > > > > > > > > > > >It pains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can > > > >only > > > > > > > > > > >offer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, > > > >I > > > > > > > > > > >know, to her, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice > > > >about > > > > > > > > > > >where to start > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her > > > >regular > > > > > > > > > > >doctor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Although I have not been following this entire thread -- it's just too long -- early damage to the ears (ex. ear infections) could have caused hearing distortions. And these hearing distortions could be the reason the brain is misinterpreting the sounds, causing them to be filtered by the limbic system. I don't know if this is true or not, but it doesn't necessary have to be an " either/or cause " , or an " either/or solution. " For the record, I remember having more than one ear infection when I was young. Yet, based on personal intuition, I believe there is an underlying neurological dysfunction to this disorder. Though I have no proof either way. Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old > > > >daughter is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to > > > >sounds. > > > > > > > > > > >It pains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can > > > >only > > > > > > > > > > >offer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, > > > >I > > > > > > > > > > >know, to her, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice > > > >about > > > > > > > > > > >where to start > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her > > > >regular > > > > > > > > > > >doctor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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