Guest guest Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Thank you for the thorough response, . It is most appreciated and gives me something to think about. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Sat, December 10, 2011 10:02:39 AMSubject: Re: Question for I have followed the other current thread on this topic, but had decided not to jump in as it is quite a complex issue, and probably different in UK and USA, so thanks !. First, I think it a waste of time going to an ENT/otologist who has not heard of Misophonia, Patulous Eustachian Tube, Superior Semicular Canal Dehiscence Syndrome. I can think of six reasons one would think of going to an ENT:1. To check for an active medical condition causing sound sensitivity problems. PET and SSCDS may be treatable. 2. To get a diagnosis. This is risky, since the visit can be worse than useless. For example, it is all too easy to do a pure tone audiogram, find it normal, then conclude. illogically, that the condition cannot have an otological component. PET, SSCDS, Meniere Spectrum Disorder, audiosensitivity, and perilymph fistulas may all sometimes have normal PTAs. Personally, I do not think any number of negative investigations or tests trump a clinical history which clearly implicated the ear.3. To throw light on the genesis of misophonia in an individual case. For example, scarring or chalk patches on the drum indicate previous ear disease, which may be long forgotten but which I think is highly relevant.4. To promote research on the condition in general and improve awareness. ENTs need to be put on notice that they are going to get a lot of referrals re sound sensitivity, so they had better start reading up about it (starting with the old textbooks of Itard and Wilde). It would help if there were relevant articles in ENT journals.5. To get treatment. In my experience, ENTs are very unpsychologically-minded. Thus, a middle-aged woman with otosclerosisand psychological or psychiatric symptoms, most likely a result of the condition, would not be offered a stapedectomy. Or someone with rhythmical tinnitus would be seen as falling into their discipline, but if this then morphed into music this would be labelled a hallucination and the patient sent off to a psychiatrist.6. To get a morale boost. This varies enormously with the knowledge, experience and empathy of an individual doctor. If one goes to a psychologist first, any otological contribution will be ignored. They are very loth to accept simple "reductionist" explanations for complex problems, and even if they did, would rely on the patient or a doctor having "ruled out the ear". Basically, no profession wants to accept responsibility for sound sensitive patients.*********************************************************************> > > > >> > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all.> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> tha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 , I’m curious to know if you suffer from 4s? As someone who has a basic knowledge of hearing and who has suffered from 4s for over 40 years I’m strongly believe my condition has little or nothing to do with hearing and all to do with the brain. One big reason is, my reaction to visual stimulus is similar to my reaction noises. Logically, I don’t believe there is anything wrong with eyes when a visual stimulus annoys me, such as hair twirling as the sound of gum cracking has to do with my hearing. As an example, some recently posted the following - I agree - i thought i heard my ex husband eating something, I filled with rage, then looked around and it was my cat cleaning himself all of a sudden, all the rage, anxiety completely disappeared and all that replaced it was relief. As an Audiologist you know more than most people how truly complicated our hearing system is. Also, as a psychologist you understand how complicated the human brain is as well. From what I read of your posts I think you believe 4s is somehow caused from Auditory processing rather than from psychological processing. Please enlighten me. I am very interested in helping myself and as well as those who suffer from 4s move towards some cure or relief but believe at this point we are walking in circles. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 11:23 AMSubject: Re: Re: Question for Thank you for the thorough response, . It is most appreciated and gives me something to think about. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Sat, December 10, 2011 10:02:39 AMSubject: Re: Question for I have followed the other current thread on this topic, but had decided not to jump in as it is quite a complex issue, and probably different in UK and USA, so thanks !. First, I think it a waste of time going to an ENT/otologist who has not heard of Misophonia, Patulous Eustachian Tube, Superior Semicular Canal Dehiscence Syndrome. I can think of six reasons one would think of going to an ENT:1. To check for an active medical condition causing sound sensitivity problems. PET and SSCDS may be treatable. 2. To get a diagnosis. This is risky, since the visit can be worse than useless. For example, it is all too easy to do a pure tone audiogram, find it normal, then conclude. illogically, that the condition cannot have an otological component. PET, SSCDS, Meniere Spectrum Disorder, audiosensitivity, and perilymph fistulas may all sometimes have normal PTAs. Personally, I do not think any number of negative investigations or tests trump a clinical history which clearly implicated the ear.3. To throw light on the genesis of misophonia in an individual case. For example, scarring or chalk patches on the drum indicate previous ear disease, which may be long forgotten but which I think is highly relevant.4. To promote research on the condition in general and improve awareness. ENTs need to be put on notice that they are going to get a lot of referrals re sound sensitivity, so they had better start reading up about it (starting with the old textbooks of Itard and Wilde). It would help if there were relevant articles in ENT journals.5. To get treatment. In my experience, ENTs are very unpsychologically-minded. Thus, a middle-aged woman with otosclerosisand psychological or psychiatric symptoms, most likely a result of the condition, would not be offered a stapedectomy. Or someone with rhythmical tinnitus would be seen as falling into their discipline, but if this then morphed into music this would be labelled a hallucination and the patient sent off to a psychiatrist.6. To get a morale boost. This varies enormously with the knowledge, experience and empathy of an individual doctor. If one goes to a psychologist first, any otological contribution will be ignored. They are very loth to accept simple "reductionist" explanations for complex problems, and even if they did, would rely on the patient or a doctor having "ruled out the ear". Basically, no profession wants to accept responsibility for sound sensitive patients.*********************************************************************> > > > >> > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all.> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>tha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 ENT's need to be reading historical medical textbooks from the 1850's?? for real? To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 10:02 AM Subject: Re: Question for I have followed the other current thread on this topic, but had decided not to jump in as it is quite a complex issue, and probably different in UK and USA, so thanks !. First, I think it a waste of time going to an ENT/otologist who has not heard of Misophonia, Patulous Eustachian Tube, Superior Semicular Canal Dehiscence Syndrome. I can think of six reasons one would think of going to an ENT: 1. To check for an active medical condition causing sound sensitivity problems. PET and SSCDS may be treatable. 2. To get a diagnosis. This is risky, since the visit can be worse than useless. For example, it is all too easy to do a pure tone audiogram, find it normal, then conclude. illogically, that the condition cannot have an otological component. PET, SSCDS, Meniere Spectrum Disorder, audiosensitivity, and perilymph fistulas may all sometimes have normal PTAs. Personally, I do not think any number of negative investigations or tests trump a clinical history which clearly implicated the ear. 3. To throw light on the genesis of misophonia in an individual case. For example, scarring or chalk patches on the drum indicate previous ear disease, which may be long forgotten but which I think is highly relevant. 4. To promote research on the condition in general and improve awareness. ENTs need to be put on notice that they are going to get a lot of referrals re sound sensitivity, so they had better start reading up about it (starting with the old textbooks of Itard and Wilde). It would help if there were relevant articles in ENT journals. 5. To get treatment. In my experience, ENTs are very unpsychologically-minded. Thus, a middle-aged woman with otosclerosis and psychological or psychiatric symptoms, most likely a result of the condition, would not be offered a stapedectomy. Or someone with rhythmical tinnitus would be seen as falling into their discipline, but if this then morphed into music this would be labelled a hallucination and the patient sent off to a psychiatrist. 6. To get a morale boost. This varies enormously with the knowledge, experience and empathy of an individual doctor. If one goes to a psychologist first, any otological contribution will be ignored. They are very loth to accept simple "reductionist" explanations for complex problems, and even if they did, would rely on the patient or a doctor having "ruled out the ear". Basically, no profession wants to accept responsibility for sound sensitive patients. ********************************************************************* > > > > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Well said adah_123. I think you explained it perfectly! To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 9:32 PM Subject: Re: Question for I am still not sure that you understand that the rage and panic are REFLEXES to sound. They are NOT emotions that we feel as a result of hearing a trigger. They are not a psychiatric issue brought about due to a dislike of sound. The hardest thing to grasp amongst the "normals" is that we do not feel rage or panic. Our brains register panic/rage at the sound. Our nervous systems register the "emotional response" as a physical reflex. It's a REFLEX, not a feeling. It's instantaneous. There's no "gap" between trigger/stimulus and reflex/response. Can someone else pitch in here and try to explain this? > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 The way I experience a trigger = instantaneous extreme aversion (I am not clear on if aversion is classified as an emotion or not) this may or may not then morph into annoyance, because then comes the psychologically conditioned part; that is due years of experience it is only natural to predict that I will not be habituating, getting used to the sound, staying in the situation increases my distress and extreem discomfort, often these are noises I can not ask people to stop, breathing for ex. or it is just so strange asking for people to adjust these little behaviors that requests will be met with disbelief and often frustration, "what IS your problem?" This is the area where any "cognitive thoughts" about the triggers take place, things I can work on at least...I am dying to know why these very distinct noises, eating, sniffing, breathing, human sounds are so common in 4s/miso and also tend to be the most problematic sounds. Perhaps hating other sounds like construction noise might result more from being generally sound sensitive and easily distracted. I think it would be interesting to get anthropologists view on this problem. There are anthropology/cognitive scientists who have theories on why there tend to be common ocd type obsessions/compulsions in the context human development as a social species with culture and rituals, (many of our brain functions have developed to live/survive as a social species), have you considered in your theories of the ear's role in 4s/miso in developing an aversion to these very specific set of sounds? Forgive me if you have already gone over this, I am completely unfamiliar with all the medical jargon, and get confused. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 8:32 PM Subject: Re: Question for I am still not sure that you understand that the rage and panic are REFLEXES to sound. They are NOT emotions that we feel as a result of hearing a trigger. They are not a psychiatric issue brought about due to a dislike of sound. The hardest thing to grasp amongst the "normals" is that we do not feel rage or panic. Our brains register panic/rage at the sound. Our nervous systems register the "emotional response" as a physical reflex. It's a REFLEX, not a feeling. It's instantaneous. There's no "gap" between trigger/stimulus and reflex/response. Can someone else pitch in here and try to explain this? > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 In my daughter's case, the trigger sound produces a neurological response in the brain that produces annoyance and if noise continues can build up to rage and aggression. So, we are trying to find medications that can reduce the rage response neurologically. So, far meds have taken the edge off where she is not quite so reactive or at least has given us the time to get out of a situation before she gets aggressive....but does not quite the response in the brain to the point where she can function or tolerate certain sounds more normally. Subject: Re: Re: Question for To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >Date: Sunday, December 11, 2011, 10:09 AM The way I experience a trigger = instantaneous extreme aversion (I am not clear on if aversion is classified as an emotion or not) this may or may not then morph into annoyance, because then comes the psychologically conditioned part; that is due years of experience it is only natural to predict that I will not be habituating, getting used to the sound, staying in the situation increases my distress and extreem discomfort, often these are noises I can not ask people to stop, breathing for ex. or it is just so strange asking for people to adjust these little behaviors that requests will be met with disbelief and often frustration, "what IS your problem?" This is the area where any "cognitive thoughts" about the triggers take place, things I can work on at least...I am dying to know why these very distinct noises, eating, sniffing, breathing, human sounds are so common in 4s/miso and also tend to be the most problematic sounds. Perhaps hating other sounds like construction noise might result more from being generally sound sensitive and easily distracted. I think it would be interesting to get anthropologists view on this problem. There are anthropology/cognitive scientists who have theories on why there tend to be common ocd type obsessions/compulsions in the context human development as a social species with culture and rituals, (many of our brain functions have developed to live/survive as a social species) , have you considered in your theories of the ear's role in 4s/miso in developing an aversion to these very specific set of sounds? Forgive me if you have already gone over this, I am completely unfamiliar with all the medical jargon, and get confused. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 8:32 PMSubject: Re: Question for I am still not sure that you understand that the rage and panic are REFLEXES to sound. They are NOT emotions that we feel as a result of hearing a trigger. They are not a psychiatric issue brought about due to a dislike of sound. The hardest thing to grasp amongst the "normals" is that we do not feel rage or panic. Our brains register panic/rage at the sound. Our nervous systems register the "emotional response" as a physical reflex. It's a REFLEX, not a feeling. It's instantaneous. There's no "gap" between trigger/stimulus and reflex/response. Can someone else pitch in here and try to explain this?> > > > > >> > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all.> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 I think it has to do with the way we have "learned" the sounds/visions. It makes perfect sense that this developed in childhood when we are actually doing this associating sounds and visions with memory. Were in a way linking all the connections in our brains in childhood. Then as we get older, we reinforce those sounds/visions and each time we hear them/see them they get stronger and stronger in the emotional and physical responses. This is all on a subconscious level from what i've researched. From: Ward To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:23 AM Subject: Re: Re: Question for In my daughter's case, the trigger sound produces a neurological response in the brain that produces annoyance and if noise continues can build up to rage and aggression. So, we are trying to find medications that can reduce the rage response neurologically. So, far meds have taken the edge off where she is not quite so reactive or at least has given us the time to get out of a situation before she gets aggressive....but does not quite the response in the brain to the point where she can function or tolerate certain sounds more normally. Subject: Re: Re: Question for To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >Date: Sunday, December 11, 2011, 10:09 AM The way I experience a trigger = instantaneous extreme aversion (I am not clear on if aversion is classified as an emotion or not) this may or may not then morph into annoyance, because then comes the psychologically conditioned part; that is due years of experience it is only natural to predict that I will not be habituating, getting used to the sound, staying in the situation increases my distress and extreem discomfort, often these are noises I can not ask people to stop, breathing for ex. or it is just so strange asking for people to adjust these little behaviors that requests will be met with disbelief and often frustration, "what IS your problem?" This is the area where any "cognitive thoughts" about the triggers take place, things I can work on at least...I am dying to know why these very distinct noises, eating, sniffing, breathing, human sounds are so common in 4s/miso and also tend to be the most problematic sounds. Perhaps hating other sounds like construction noise might result more from being generally sound sensitive and easily distracted. I think it would be interesting to get anthropologists view on this problem. There are anthropology/cognitive scientists who have theories on why there tend to be common ocd type obsessions/compulsions in the context human development as a social species with culture and rituals, (many of our brain functions have developed to live/survive as a social species) , have you considered in your theories of the ear's role in 4s/miso in developing an aversion to these very specific set of sounds? Forgive me if you have already gone over this, I am completely unfamiliar with all the medical jargon, and get confused. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 8:32 PMSubject: Re: Question for I am still not sure that you understand that the rage and panic are REFLEXES to sound. They are NOT emotions that we feel as a result of hearing a trigger. They are not a psychiatric issue brought about due to a dislike of sound. The hardest thing to grasp amongst the "normals" is that we do not feel rage or panic. Our brains register panic/rage at the sound. Our nervous systems register the "emotional response" as a physical reflex. It's a REFLEX, not a feeling. It's instantaneous. There's no "gap" between trigger/stimulus and reflex/response. Can someone else pitch in here and try to explain this?> > > > > >> > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all.> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 I think it has to do with the way we have "learned" the sounds/visions. It makes perfect sense that this developed in childhood when we are actually doing this associating sounds and visions with memory. Were in a way linking all the connections in our brains in childhood. Then as we get older, we reinforce those sounds/visions and each time we hear them/see them they get stronger and stronger in the emotional and physical responses. This is all on a subconscious level from what i've researched. From: Ward To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:23 AM Subject: Re: Re: Question for In my daughter's case, the trigger sound produces a neurological response in the brain that produces annoyance and if noise continues can build up to rage and aggression. So, we are trying to find medications that can reduce the rage response neurologically. So, far meds have taken the edge off where she is not quite so reactive or at least has given us the time to get out of a situation before she gets aggressive....but does not quite the response in the brain to the point where she can function or tolerate certain sounds more normally. Subject: Re: Re: Question for To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >Date: Sunday, December 11, 2011, 10:09 AM The way I experience a trigger = instantaneous extreme aversion (I am not clear on if aversion is classified as an emotion or not) this may or may not then morph into annoyance, because then comes the psychologically conditioned part; that is due years of experience it is only natural to predict that I will not be habituating, getting used to the sound, staying in the situation increases my distress and extreem discomfort, often these are noises I can not ask people to stop, breathing for ex. or it is just so strange asking for people to adjust these little behaviors that requests will be met with disbelief and often frustration, "what IS your problem?" This is the area where any "cognitive thoughts" about the triggers take place, things I can work on at least...I am dying to know why these very distinct noises, eating, sniffing, breathing, human sounds are so common in 4s/miso and also tend to be the most problematic sounds. Perhaps hating other sounds like construction noise might result more from being generally sound sensitive and easily distracted. I think it would be interesting to get anthropologists view on this problem. There are anthropology/cognitive scientists who have theories on why there tend to be common ocd type obsessions/compulsions in the context human development as a social species with culture and rituals, (many of our brain functions have developed to live/survive as a social species) , have you considered in your theories of the ear's role in 4s/miso in developing an aversion to these very specific set of sounds? Forgive me if you have already gone over this, I am completely unfamiliar with all the medical jargon, and get confused. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 8:32 PMSubject: Re: Question for I am still not sure that you understand that the rage and panic are REFLEXES to sound. They are NOT emotions that we feel as a result of hearing a trigger. They are not a psychiatric issue brought about due to a dislike of sound. The hardest thing to grasp amongst the "normals" is that we do not feel rage or panic. Our brains register panic/rage at the sound. Our nervous systems register the "emotional response" as a physical reflex. It's a REFLEX, not a feeling. It's instantaneous. There's no "gap" between trigger/stimulus and reflex/response. Can someone else pitch in here and try to explain this?> > > > > >> > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all.> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Ok I live with my daughter's 4 s everyday of our lives and have had her rage response to a sound register on an EEG, so I know that she has a neurological reflex/response to a sound that presents/expresses itself as annoyance, irritation, rage, avoidance, escapism, frustration, fear, depression. She does has refexive responses that can bring out any and all of these feelings. I can see her reflexive response of the initial reaction to the trigger sound as it presents as annoyance/rage/irritation and can lead in my daughter's case to other feelings if the sound continues. The annoyance/irritation/frustration builds and she feels the need to lash out or run away and even can get to the point of crying if she is not removes from the situation. So, in my daughter's case it is a neurological response/reaction/reflex that can trigger a very negative sensation that we describe as irritation/annoyance/rage and does cause her to feel anxiety/depression/ and mood disorder all of which have been helped through seeing a psyciatrist and she has been helped by being under the care of a neurologists as well and takes 900mg of Trileptal 2 x's a day to help this condition and her epilepsy from a neurological approach. en Renshaw wrote: Subject: Re: Re: Question for To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >Date: Sunday, December 11, 2011, 8:14 AM Well said adah_123. I think you explained it perfectly! To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 9:32 PMSubject: Re: Question for I am still not sure that you understand that the rage and panic are REFLEXES to sound. They are NOT emotions that we feel as a result of hearing a trigger. They are not a psychiatric issue brought about due to a dislike of sound. The hardest thing to grasp amongst the "normals" is that we do not feel rage or panic. Our brains register panic/rage at the sound. Our nervous systems register the "emotional response" as a physical reflex. It's a REFLEX, not a feeling. It's instantaneous. There's no "gap" between trigger/stimulus and reflex/response. Can someone else pitch in here and try to explain this?> > > > > >> > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all.> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Ok I live with my daughter's 4 s everyday of our lives and have had her rage response to a sound register on an EEG, so I know that she has a neurological reflex/response to a sound that presents/expresses itself as annoyance, irritation, rage, avoidance, escapism, frustration, fear, depression. She does has refexive responses that can bring out any and all of these feelings. I can see her reflexive response of the initial reaction to the trigger sound as it presents as annoyance/rage/irritation and can lead in my daughter's case to other feelings if the sound continues. The annoyance/irritation/frustration builds and she feels the need to lash out or run away and even can get to the point of crying if she is not removes from the situation. So, in my daughter's case it is a neurological response/reaction/reflex that can trigger a very negative sensation that we describe as irritation/annoyance/rage and does cause her to feel anxiety/depression/ and mood disorder all of which have been helped through seeing a psyciatrist and she has been helped by being under the care of a neurologists as well and takes 900mg of Trileptal 2 x's a day to help this condition and her epilepsy from a neurological approach. en Renshaw wrote: Subject: Re: Re: Question for To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >Date: Sunday, December 11, 2011, 8:14 AM Well said adah_123. I think you explained it perfectly! To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 9:32 PMSubject: Re: Question for I am still not sure that you understand that the rage and panic are REFLEXES to sound. They are NOT emotions that we feel as a result of hearing a trigger. They are not a psychiatric issue brought about due to a dislike of sound. The hardest thing to grasp amongst the "normals" is that we do not feel rage or panic. Our brains register panic/rage at the sound. Our nervous systems register the "emotional response" as a physical reflex. It's a REFLEX, not a feeling. It's instantaneous. There's no "gap" between trigger/stimulus and reflex/response. Can someone else pitch in here and try to explain this?> > > > > >> > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all.> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 My daughter's did start in her teens and dies have an emotional connection. I went through a few years with very bad bouts of bronchitis and due to her disability, she couldn't really express her cocern for her mother being so sick. So, we came out of those years after we moved to a new area where I now have much less bronchitis...but we ended up with her having severe rage responses to the sound of coughing. I do fully believe this problem originated with an emotional connection to the sound of coughing from living with my very severe bronchitis. Now anyone coughing triggers a reaction and effects all areas of our life. Subject: Re: Re: Question for To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >Date: Sunday, December 11, 2011, 10:51 AM I think it has to do with the way we have "learned" the sounds/visions. It makes perfect sense that this developed in childhood when we are actually doing this associating sounds and visions with memory. Were in a way linking all the connections in our brains in childhood. Then as we get older, we reinforce those sounds/visions and each time we hear them/see them they get stronger and stronger in the emotional and physical responses. This is all on a subconscious level from what i've researched. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:23 AMSubject: Re: Re: Question for In my daughter's case, the trigger sound produces a neurological response in the brain that produces annoyance and if noise continues can build up to rage and aggression. So, we are trying to find medications that can reduce the rage response neurologically. So, far meds have taken the edge off where she is not quite so reactive or at least has given us the time to get out of a situation before she gets aggressive....but does not quite the response in the brain to the point where she can function or tolerate certain sounds more normally. Subject: Re: Re: Question for To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >Date: Sunday, December 11, 2011, 10:09 AM The way I experience a trigger = instantaneous extreme aversion (I am not clear on if aversion is classified as an emotion or not) this may or may not then morph into annoyance, because then comes the psychologically conditioned part; that is due years of experience it is only natural to predict that I will not be habituating, getting used to the sound, staying in the situation increases my distress and extreem discomfort, often these are noises I can not ask people to stop, breathing for ex. or it is just so strange asking for people to adjust these little behaviors that requests will be met with disbelief and often frustration, "what IS your problem?" This is the area where any "cognitive thoughts" about the triggers take place, things I can work on at least...I am dying to know why these very distinct noises, eating, sniffing, breathing, human sounds are so common in 4s/miso and also tend to be the most problematic sounds. Perhaps hating other sounds like construction noise might result more from being generally sound sensitive and easily distracted. I think it would be interesting to get anthropologists view on this problem. There are anthropology/cognitive scientists who have theories on why there tend to be common ocd type obsessions/compulsions in the context human development as a social species with culture and rituals, (many of our brain functions have developed to live/survive as a social species) , have you considered in your theories of the ear's role in 4s/miso in developing an aversion to these very specific set of sounds? Forgive me if you have already gone over this, I am completely unfamiliar with all the medical jargon, and get confused. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 8:32 PMSubject: Re: Question for I am still not sure that you understand that the rage and panic are REFLEXES to sound. They are NOT emotions that we feel as a result of hearing a trigger. They are not a psychiatric issue brought about due to a dislike of sound. The hardest thing to grasp amongst the "normals" is that we do not feel rage or panic. Our brains register panic/rage at the sound. Our nervous systems register the "emotional response" as a physical reflex. It's a REFLEX, not a feeling. It's instantaneous. There's no "gap" between trigger/stimulus and reflex/response. Can someone else pitch in here and try to explain this?> > > > > >> > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all.> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Hey I am all for doctors listening to their patients!!I too have gotten the impression that there is a buttload more to be learned about auditory sensitivities. Perhaps because visual processing is a less complex function in the brain than the auditory, the current neurological research in sensory processing is more focused on cracking the visual code first, than that of the audiological at this time?I admit during my 20 something years under the care of a number of highly qualified psychiatrists I did indeed get some blank stares, but certainly not a lack of interest nor lack of ideas, psychiatrist do run into sound sensitivities with their patients and I don't at all believe it has been ignored or not addressed. I still have confidence in my current psychiatry/neurology specialized MD PHD. :-) My ears are just peachy, actually I wish they worked a little less well! :-( To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 9:40 AM Subject: Re: Question for I make absolutely no apology for recommending these two old books. Doctors then had to rely on their wits, listen to patients and were not distracted by test results of dubious relevance. I have just checked out some modern textbooks which are likely to be consulted instead: 1. Oxford Textbook of Medicine 2010. No mention of Audiosensitivity, Hyperacusis, Misophonia or Phonophobia in 5518 pages of text. 2. Sadock: Comprehensive Textbook of Psychiatry 2009. Nil on AS, MA, PA. HA defined in Glossary, but no mention in 4520 pages of text. 3. Brain's Diseases of the Nervous System 2009. Nil on AS, HA, PA in 1456 pages. HA defined in Chapter on Hearing Disorders, but no example given. 4. Jackler, Brackman: Neurotology 2005. Nil on AS or MA in 1362 pages. PA is characterised as "some sounds can elicit fear in some individuals with pain", and as a symptom of Migraine (along with other symptoms of Meniere's disease). HA is noted as an accompaniment of tinnitus and which may indicate a common cause, and as occurring in syndrome. I could find no mention of sound sensitivity in the 17-page chapter on Meniere's, though peripheral vestibular hyperactivity was mentioned. One reason I read these old books is because I learn things. For example, Wilde says that there may be a period of sound hypersensitivity after wax removal. Clearly something odd is happening in the ear, but at this stage I have no idea what. This tells me more about the likely cause of audiosensitivty than the 12856 pages in the above megatomes. So, to add to what I have said below about the likely reaction of doctors to someone presenting with sound sensitivity, you are likely to be met with blank stares or lack of interest from psychiatrists, neurologists, general practitioners and even many otologists. So the best bet is still a 200y old aural surgeon! ********************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Yes it sounds like the limbic system has a strong tie to the sympathetic nervous system which are unconscious reactions to the sounds and visual stimuli which cause the body to think it's in a dangerous situation and it needs to flee. This is a trained response that develops in childhood. I AM NOT A DOCTOR but i've done an extensive amount of research and my research is ongoing. I am a student currently in the medical field. But i've just started out with my education. From: Ward To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:52 AM Subject: Re: Re: Question for Ok I live with my daughter's 4 s everyday of our lives and have had her rage response to a sound register on an EEG, so I know that she has a neurological reflex/response to a sound that presents/expresses itself as annoyance, irritation, rage, avoidance, escapism, frustration, fear, depression. She does has refexive responses that can bring out any and all of these feelings. I can see her reflexive response of the initial reaction to the trigger sound as it presents as annoyance/rage/irritation and can lead in my daughter's case to other feelings if the sound continues. The annoyance/irritation/frustration builds and she feels the need to lash out or run away and even can get to the point of crying if she is not removes from the situation. So, in my daughter's case it is a neurological response/reaction/reflex that can trigger a very negative sensation that we describe as irritation/annoyance/rage and does cause her to feel anxiety/depression/ and mood disorder all of which have been helped through seeing a psyciatrist and she has been helped by being under the care of a neurologists as well and takes 900mg of Trileptal 2 x's a day to help this condition and her epilepsy from a neurological approach. en Renshaw wrote: Subject: Re: Re: Question for To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >Date: Sunday, December 11, 2011, 8:14 AM Well said adah_123. I think you explained it perfectly! To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 9:32 PMSubject: Re: Question for I am still not sure that you understand that the rage and panic are REFLEXES to sound. They are NOT emotions that we feel as a result of hearing a trigger. They are not a psychiatric issue brought about due to a dislike of sound. The hardest thing to grasp amongst the "normals" is that we do not feel rage or panic. Our brains register panic/rage at the sound. Our nervous systems register the "emotional response" as a physical reflex. It's a REFLEX, not a feeling. It's instantaneous. There's no "gap" between trigger/stimulus and reflex/response. Can someone else pitch in here and try to explain this?> > > > > >> > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all.> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 , I’m sure your intentions are to help us solve the mystery of 4S and it is apparent you are an educated individual but after reading your posts I’m not sure you understand 4S at all. Please understand, WE DON’T have a hearing problem. Most of what you write I understand from my 10 years in the hearing business but I have NO IDEA what it has to do with 4S. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 12:12 PMSubject: Re: Question for I have no idea what I have written that contradicts Adah's post below. I have published in the medical literature many examples of reflex responses; eg Young children will not do (voluntary) pure tone audiometry until they show an Orienting Reflex to sound (Sokolov); phonophobia is a conditioned fear reflex to unduly loud sound; all audiosensitive persons have abnormal stapedial muscle reflexes; musical hallucinations are a very low level reflex response to confusing tinnitus; jangling keys near certain hearing-impaired rodent strains induce reflex epileptic convulsions; total temporary blindness after minor head injury can be due to disrupted vestibular reflexes; knockouts, as in boxers, are nothing to do with the brain, but due to overstimulated inner ears, and blocked vestibulo-spinal reflexes; startle reflex; disordered vestibulo-spatial reflexes, leading to conditioned fear and anxiety (agoraphobia); etc.If misophonis has nothing to do with past or present ear disorders, then the incidence of these should be the same or lower than for the population in general. Is is perfectly clear that even on this highly selective site they are in fact far commoner. Before we get neuroscientists involved, we need to sort out this vital clue.********************************************************************* > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 I totally agree. I'm beginning to think that it may have something to do, perhaps a distant cousin of schizophrenia-I believe that two of my cousins on my father's side have it and I believe my father has misophonia. Whereas hay fever, asthma and eczema are inter-related and inherited from your parent/s, this may be inter-related and inherited from (something?).To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >Sent: Sun, December 11, 2011 11:00:01 AMSubject: Re: Re: Question for , I’m sure your intentions are to help us solve the mystery of 4S and it is apparent you are an educated individual but after reading your posts I’m not sure you understand 4S at all. Please understand, WE DON’T have a hearing problem. Most of what you write I understand from my 10 years in the hearing business but I have NO IDEA what it has to do with 4S. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 12:12 PMSubject: Re: Question for I have no idea what I have written that contradicts Adah's post below. I have published in the medical literature many examples of reflex responses; eg Young children will not do (voluntary) pure tone audiometry until they show an Orienting Reflex to sound (Sokolov); phonophobia is a conditioned fear reflex to unduly loud sound; all audiosensitive persons have abnormal stapedial muscle reflexes; musical hallucinations are a very low level reflex response to confusing tinnitus; jangling keys near certain hearing-impaired rodent strains induce reflex epileptic convulsions; total temporary blindness after minor head injury can be due to disrupted vestibular reflexes; knockouts, as in boxers, are nothing to do with the brain, but due to overstimulated inner ears, and blocked vestibulo-spinal reflexes; startle reflex; disordered vestibulo-spatial reflexes, leading to conditioned fear and anxiety (agoraphobia); etc.If misophonis has nothing to do with past or present ear disorders, then the incidence of these should be the same or lower than for the population in general. Is is perfectly clear that even on this highly selective site they are in fact far commoner. Before we get neuroscientists involved, we need to sort out this vital clue.********************************************************************* > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Or a distant cousin of autism??? To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Sun, December 11, 2011 1:38:04 PMSubject: Re: Re: Question for I totally agree. I'm beginning to think that it may have something to do, perhaps a distant cousin of schizophrenia-I believe that two of my cousins on my father's side have it and I believe my father has misophonia. Whereas hay fever, asthma and eczema are inter-related and inherited from your parent/s, this may be inter-related and inherited from (something?). To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >Sent: Sun, December 11, 2011 11:00:01 AMSubject: Re: Re: Question for , I’m sure your intentions are to help us solve the mystery of 4S and it is apparent you are an educated individual but after reading your posts I’m not sure you understand 4S at all. Please understand, WE DON’T have a hearing problem. Most of what you write I understand from my 10 years in the hearing business but I have NO IDEA what it has to do with 4S. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 12:12 PMSubject: Re: Question for I have no idea what I have written that contradicts Adah's post below. I have published in the medical literature many examples of reflex responses; eg Young children will not do (voluntary) pure tone audiometry until they show an Orienting Reflex to sound (Sokolov); phonophobia is a conditioned fear reflex to unduly loud sound; all audiosensitive persons have abnormal stapedial muscle reflexes; musical hallucinations are a very low level reflex response to confusing tinnitus; jangling keys near certain hearing-impaired rodent strains induce reflex epileptic convulsions; total temporary blindness after minor head injury can be due to disrupted vestibular reflexes; knockouts, as in boxers, are nothing to do with the brain, but due to overstimulated inner ears, and blocked vestibulo-spinal reflexes; startle reflex; disordered vestibulo-spatial reflexes, leading to conditioned fear and anxiety (agoraphobia); etc.If misophonis has nothing to do with past or present ear disorders, then the incidence of these should be the same or lower than for the population in general. Is is perfectly clear that even on this highly selective site they are in fact far commoner. Before we get neuroscientists involved, we need to sort out this vital clue.********************************************************************* > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 The areas in the brain that appears that misophonia functions with does also arise in other disorders such as OCD, ADHD, Schizophrenia, autism and others. So it's very possible in my opinion. But it's also very possible to have misophonia and not these other disorders as well. There's more complex functionality that stems from high brain functions with misophonia that may or may not be related to those other disorders. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 3:34 PM Subject: Re: Re: Question for Or a distant cousin of autism??? To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Sun, December 11, 2011 1:38:04 PMSubject: Re: Re: Question for I totally agree. I'm beginning to think that it may have something to do, perhaps a distant cousin of schizophrenia-I believe that two of my cousins on my father's side have it and I believe my father has misophonia. Whereas hay fever, asthma and eczema are inter-related and inherited from your parent/s, this may be inter-related and inherited from (something?). To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >Sent: Sun, December 11, 2011 11:00:01 AMSubject: Re: Re: Question for , I’m sure your intentions are to help us solve the mystery of 4S and it is apparent you are an educated individual but after reading your posts I’m not sure you understand 4S at all. Please understand, WE DON’T have a hearing problem. Most of what you write I understand from my 10 years in the hearing business but I have NO IDEA what it has to do with 4S. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 12:12 PMSubject: Re: Question for I have no idea what I have written that contradicts Adah's post below. I have published in the medical literature many examples of reflex responses; eg Young children will not do (voluntary) pure tone audiometry until they show an Orienting Reflex to sound (Sokolov); phonophobia is a conditioned fear reflex to unduly loud sound; all audiosensitive persons have abnormal stapedial muscle reflexes; musical hallucinations are a very low level reflex response to confusing tinnitus; jangling keys near certain hearing-impaired rodent strains induce reflex epileptic convulsions; total temporary blindness after minor head injury can be due to disrupted vestibular reflexes; knockouts, as in boxers, are nothing to do with the brain, but due to overstimulated inner ears, and blocked vestibulo-spinal reflexes; startle reflex; disordered vestibulo-spatial reflexes, leading to conditioned fear and anxiety (agoraphobia); etc.If misophonis has nothing to do with past or present ear disorders, then the incidence of these should be the same or lower than for the population in general. Is is perfectly clear that even on this highly selective site they are in fact far commoner. Before we get neuroscientists involved, we need to sort out this vital clue.********************************************************************* > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 I live with her and thos condition and do see an emotional reaction in her in response to have this condition. When she is enraged that is a feeling/emotion triggered by a stimulus. She also experiences anxiety which has been diagnosed by a psychiatrist. She also has times when she feels.experiences frustration that can cause her to want to lash out at a person or to sometimes cry when in a situation where she is around someone coughing. Plus this is tied to my having had years of bronchitis which is how the condition began in my daughter's case. So, in my daughter's case thee is an emotional connection that is now triggered when anyone coughs. She does have a fear that developed out of those years when I had so many episodes of bronchitis and now she doesn't have the ability to tolerate being around the sound of coughing. But apparently you do not have an emotional connection to your trigger sound or emotional response to those triggers. But I don't think you can paint this condition with a broad brush and say that nobody has an emotional response or connection who lives with this condition. I think you will find that a lot of people will atest to the fact that they have an emotional component to how this effects them. Subject: Re: Question for To: Soundsensitivity Date: Sunday, December 11, 2011, 9:24 PM Perhaps you perceive an emotional connection. I think you will find that as she gets older and gets more and more triggers that it is ANY sound that is repeated over and over will become a trigger for her.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all.> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 , I remember crying when I was a little girl. My mom's s's would go right through me and I couldn't stop her or say anything. There was a lot of frustration. I agree. It is both. A reflex and emotion. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Mon, December 12, 2011 8:39:28 AMSubject: Re: Re: Question for I live with her and thos condition and do see an emotional reaction in her in response to have this condition. When she is enraged that is a feeling/emotion triggered by a stimulus. She also experiences anxiety which has been diagnosed by a psychiatrist. She also has times when she feels.experiences frustration that can cause her to want to lash out at a person or to sometimes cry when in a situation where she is around someone coughing. Plus this is tied to my having had years of bronchitis which is how the condition began in my daughter's case. So, in my daughter's case thee is an emotional connection that is now triggered when anyone coughs. She does have a fear that developed out of those years when I had so many episodes of bronchitis and now she doesn't have the ability to tolerate being around the sound of coughing. But apparently you do not have an emotional connection to your trigger sound or emotional response to those triggers. But I don't think you can paint this condition with a broad brush and say that nobody has an emotional response or connection who lives with this condition. I think you will find that a lot of people will atest to the fact that they have an emotional component to how this effects them. Subject: Re: Question for To: Soundsensitivity Date: Sunday, December 11, 2011, 9:24 PM Perhaps you perceive an emotional connection. I think you will find that as she gets older and gets more and more triggers that it is ANY sound that is repeated over and over will become a trigger for her.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all.> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 The reason I say it is both is out of experience. It's the reflex (fight or flight) from the initial sound (if, I'm not expecting it) and the anger/frustration/whatever of not being able to control the sounds (I would cry, too), whether it's the person making them, or just being able to stop them. Period. That's where I believe the layers of other neurosis come in. It's knowing, day after day, any time of day, I will go through this. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Mon, December 12, 2011 8:39:28 AMSubject: Re: Re: Question for I live with her and thos condition and do see an emotional reaction in her in response to have this condition. When she is enraged that is a feeling/emotion triggered by a stimulus. She also experiences anxiety which has been diagnosed by a psychiatrist. She also has times when she feels.experiences frustration that can cause her to want to lash out at a person or to sometimes cry when in a situation where she is around someone coughing. Plus this is tied to my having had years of bronchitis which is how the condition began in my daughter's case. So, in my daughter's case thee is an emotional connection that is now triggered when anyone coughs. She does have a fear that developed out of those years when I had so many episodes of bronchitis and now she doesn't have the ability to tolerate being around the sound of coughing. But apparently you do not have an emotional connection to your trigger sound or emotional response to those triggers. But I don't think you can paint this condition with a broad brush and say that nobody has an emotional response or connection who lives with this condition. I think you will find that a lot of people will atest to the fact that they have an emotional component to how this effects them. Subject: Re: Question for To: Soundsensitivity Date: Sunday, December 11, 2011, 9:24 PM Perhaps you perceive an emotional connection. I think you will find that as she gets older and gets more and more triggers that it is ANY sound that is repeated over and over will become a trigger for her.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all.> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 For me I also think there is a bit of a "hearing problem" that possibly contributes: too good of hearing. I've really worked hard at controlling the anger part and can focus more on the sound and I do hear the offending sounds very loudly. May be a chicken and egg thing though due to the wonky wiring that interprets it as danger. I like your Lobby idea a lot!20/20 will be doing there show soon. We should be prepared toJump at the time of the program air date. Still waiting to hear of the date. HeidiSent from my iPhone this is definitely not a hearing problem. most persons who have misophonia have excellent hearing. there is a "wiring" problem in an area of the brain where the sound is being processed. an innocuous sound is wrongly interpreted as "danger" thereby illiciting an immediate,involuntary fear(fight/flight)response with anger/rage. this grp may have to hire a lobbyist to petition various teaching (medical) universities to get this in their research budget/schedule. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 It may not be trauma related. you don't have to have to trauma for your brain to attach unhappy thoughts with this negative reaction. i believe it could be something so simple as to perhaps an emabarrasment that occurred at the dinner table one time, perhaps some people were disciplined (i don't mean spanked, just corrected, could be verbally as well) chewing with their mouths open, and other things. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:49 PM Subject: Re: Question for I'm sorry. I wasn't clear. For most of us, the emotional component of misophonia IS the reaction to triggers. The rage and panic are the reflex/response to trigger sounds which have become trigger sounds due to exposure to those sounds being repeated over and over again. The emotional CAUSE of misophonia is something the psych community has been pushing for decades and many of us are continuuing to be improperly diagnosed with PTSD. They think we have the rage/panic response as a result of emotional damage somehow relating to the sounds themselves. I am not saying that this is never the case. I'm sure it could be. But I went through 20 years of psychotherapy (as have others) and relived and came to terms with every traumatic event of my life and triggers still multiply to things that have no meaning whatsoever. People who have never experienced trauma also have the exact same reactions that I have so . . . we don't know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that my daughter's 4s is directly related to the emotional conection she had to my horrible bronchitis when she was growing up. But, she was predisposed to possibly developing this condition because she already had explosive rage associated with having Tuberous Sclerosis and brain lesions in the autonomic and temporal lobe regions of the brain. She went on to have this very negative reaction to anyone coughing...possibly something similar to a ptsd type association to the sound of coughing. We also have a video monitored EEG evidence of an neurological response to my coughing when in the room with her during the EEG. Registered as a seizure....presented as a rage reaction where she was making a punching motion. So, there is a neurological response to the stimuli that presents as a behavioral/emotional response....in my opinion.Subject: Re: Re: Question for To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 3:48 PM It may not be trauma related. you don't have to have to trauma for your brain to attach unhappy thoughts with this negative reaction. i believe it could be something so simple as to perhaps an emabarrasment that occurred at the dinner table one time, perhaps some people were disciplined (i don't mean spanked, just corrected, could be verbally as well) chewing with their mouths open, and other things. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:49 PM Subject: Re: Question for I'm sorry. I wasn't clear. For most of us, the emotional component of misophonia IS the reaction to triggers. The rage and panic are the reflex/response to trigger sounds which have become trigger sounds due to exposure to those sounds being repeated over and over again. The emotional CAUSE of misophonia is something the psych community has been pushing for decades and many of us are continuuing to be improperly diagnosed with PTSD. They think we have the rage/panic response as a result of emotional damage somehow relating to the sounds themselves. I am not saying that this is never the case. I'm sure it could be. But I went through 20 years of psychotherapy (as have others) and relived and came to terms with every traumatic event of my life and triggers still multiply to things that have no meaning whatsoever. People who have never experienced trauma also have the exact same reactions that I have so . . . we don't know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Thank you Adah, I am glad you commented on this very important aspect of Misophonia, I have spend years and tens of thousands of dollars on very intense therapies addressing past trauma, going back to the birth trauma. I have spent many years in Primal Therapy, Dianetics, and more. They were very helpful to me in many ways, but the miso problem still exists. I deal with my reactions better I think, but it has not gotten rid of the problem. I still think it may have something to do with some sort of trauma, and that if addressed in the proper way, could be a key to reducing or eliminating the symptoms. I believe that the mind, body and spirit work together, and that this can not be isolated as merely a auditory problem. Thanks for your always insightful comments. Mike To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 10:49 AMSubject: Re: Question for I'm sorry. I wasn't clear. For most of us, the emotional component of misophonia IS the reaction to triggers. The rage and panic are the reflex/response to trigger sounds which have become trigger sounds due to exposure to those sounds being repeated over and over again. The emotional CAUSE of misophonia is something the psych community has been pushing for decades and many of us are continuuing to be improperly diagnosed with PTSD. They think we have the rage/panic response as a result of emotional damage somehow relating to the sounds themselves. I am not saying that this is never the case. I'm sure it could be. But I went through 20 years of psychotherapy (as have others) and relived and came to terms with every traumatic event of my life and triggers still multiply to things that have no meaning whatsoever. People who have never experienced trauma also have the exact same reactions that I have so . . . we don't know.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Thank you Adah, I am glad you commented on this very important aspect of Misophonia, I have spend years and tens of thousands of dollars on very intense therapies addressing past trauma, going back to the birth trauma. I have spent many years in Primal Therapy, Dianetics, and more. They were very helpful to me in many ways, but the miso problem still exists. I deal with my reactions better I think, but it has not gotten rid of the problem. I still think it may have something to do with some sort of trauma, and that if addressed in the proper way, could be a key to reducing or eliminating the symptoms. I believe that the mind, body and spirit work together, and that this can not be isolated as merely a auditory problem. Thanks for your always insightful comments. Mike To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 10:49 AMSubject: Re: Question for I'm sorry. I wasn't clear. For most of us, the emotional component of misophonia IS the reaction to triggers. The rage and panic are the reflex/response to trigger sounds which have become trigger sounds due to exposure to those sounds being repeated over and over again. The emotional CAUSE of misophonia is something the psych community has been pushing for decades and many of us are continuuing to be improperly diagnosed with PTSD. They think we have the rage/panic response as a result of emotional damage somehow relating to the sounds themselves. I am not saying that this is never the case. I'm sure it could be. But I went through 20 years of psychotherapy (as have others) and relived and came to terms with every traumatic event of my life and triggers still multiply to things that have no meaning whatsoever. People who have never experienced trauma also have the exact same reactions that I have so . . . we don't know.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I am very concerned about how upset my 11 year old daughter is > > > > >getting...more so each day, it seems...with her sensitivity to sounds. It pains > > > > >me to see her cry, wondering why she has to feel this way. I can only offer > > > > >suggestions, but because it's so new to her, and she's so young, I know, to her, > > > > >it seems hopeless right now. Can any of you offer me advice about where to start > > > > >with getting her help outside of our home? Do we talk to her regular doctor > > > > >initially? I'm just not sure where to begin Thank you all.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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