Re: sharon/can I explain a little?

[Guest guest]

i'm mom to 4 children. I'm trying to be understanding of your feelings about your son. i dont know how much of my sons story can compare the hell you're going through. When my oldest was 19, he was convicted of selling cocaine to an undercover cop and was sentenced to 9 months in jail. My one and only concern was my son, i wasn't concerned with the expense of taking care of his newborn daughter or the 10,000.00 my husband and i paid to the lawyer and we are by no means wealthy. i love my husband to death but i remember having fights over my eldest ( he's not his biological son, but mine by a previous marriage) and i told him not to make me choose between you and my kids cause you'll lose everytime. maybe you can just take this day by day without any deadlines on jobs or moving out. following catherines advise, which to me is right on the money, your son can make baby steps. kids are real hard to love sometimes, but they should always know that mom will love and take care of them in their times of need, and it sounds like nick really needs his mom right now.thinking of youcolleen

am doing that..one day at a time. I know how it sounds.

that I am selfish and uncaring, but really that is not the case.

the situation is this though. I live with butch. we are not legally married. the single wide trailer we live in belongs to him only, my name is not on it. butch and I have been together for about 7 years.

I have finally had a pretty happy life compared to before... and if I can explain perhaps you can understand a little why I dont want to jeopardise my current relationship. If I had to choose between nick and butch...and it broke up this relationship... I would be homeless too and I couldnt help him then at all.

before butch... as you may have read before I was legally married 4 times and all but the first one with nick's dad were real disasters.nicks dad and I just drifted apart after 8 years.. because we came from different worlds, and we are still friends but he lives in california.. number two was 10 years younger than me, violent abusive to me and became a coke addict. he broke out my teeth, broke my nose and tried to hang me on a wall sconce ( 3 inch scar down my back)this is the guy that got my daughter taken away when she was 15 months old and we never saw her again til I found her in 2003. number 3 seemed ok but after we were married and he moved in with me he quit work, started drinking methadone he got from someone,wore womens underwear and was seen crouched naked behind the dog house and the dog was yelping in pain... out he went...number 4 became a crank addict after I had been with him for 2 years. he became the classic example of a paranoid shizophrenic complete with obsessive compulsive disorder and paranoia. he had to cover all the appliances in the house with a blanket before we could have sex so "they" couldnt watch us. ( I could go on for several hours with tales of his compulsions but I dont want to use up too much bandwidth) I stuck with him for 12 years trying to help him. he really did need to be locked up, but if I had done that Id never been able to divorce him. I finally gave up and booted him out in 1997. every time I booted a man out I lost half of my belongings and pulled myself up by the bootstraps and started over. yes bad taste in men, but hindsight is 20 20. needless to say I have no real driving urge to be legally married any more. besides that If I butch and I HAD been married when we crashed our bike 2 days after 9/11 I would not be walking now because it was butchs liability insurance that paid for my surgery, and it wouldnt have paid if we had been married. also when I had an income from my trailer park it would have made his taxes go up... anyway...even if we were married the house was his before me so it is his...

I have been notoriously guilty of bailing nick out of every problem he has ever had because he was my only son and my only child left and he was my life ... always. His father has sent him money a couple of times but has come nowhere near doing what I have done for nick. If I had to count the thousands of dollars that I have given nick or spent bailing him out it would probably be astronomical... I dont think I can count that high... and all the while I did it all myself, never with any insurance, never with the help of any of the husbands and all the while dealing with my own personal assorted conflicts.

Ive never been well off. my average yearly family income over my life of 55 years has been between $6,000 to $12,000 a year.there were a couple good years in the 90s but someyears were so low that the average is still not good.. ... right now its about $6,000 a year... my income is $547 a month and I have no insurance at all.

I have arthritis and fibromyalgia and a bad knee.

butch is just a little more than that and he is on disability himself because he was born blind in one eye and has holes that got burned in the other eye after surgery from working underground in the mines for 20 years. our monthly bills take all of our income with little left over and we juggle some to get by. I still do my art work to make extra, I worked for 6 weeks at christmas in a call center to try to pay down my credit cards but I didnt put as much on them as I wanted because I paid nicks rent for him twice in november and december after I found out the shape he was in, and I bought him food. as expected was laid off after christmas so my income dropped again.

in january the clutch went out on my truck and I had to charge another $900 on my credit card and that maxed out that one.

my last crown broke off ( I only have 6 teeth left) about the middle of january and I found out I could get into the clinic on the indian reservation and have the work done on a sliding scale. the dentist said that tooth had to come out so I had surgery on my jaw to get the root out the first part of february and it became a dry socket and I was in severe pain for several weeks. about the time the tooth started getting better I got sick with this sore throat lung and sinus crud going around so between the tooth and the flu Ive been pretty sick for the past 6 weeks or so. the fees for doctors and dentists took what little cash I had on hand. my cards are maxed so couldnt pay for it with that. what else... oh... nicks car stopped running in november and I paid out about $100 for towing and having it checked to see if it could be fixed. if it had been something simple I would have done it in spite of the fact that nick still owes me about $1200 for a car I bought him in october of 2003 and then traded in on the lemon, but the mechanic said it would cost about $1500 so I didnt have enough to do that even if I had been in the mood to do so after nick failed to pay me for the other one and let me down come income tax time. that is one reason my cards are maxed. I had to use my entire monthly income from several months to pay my income taxes last year because nick didnt pay me back, and then had to live on my credit cards til I caught up. about the middle of my flu ... last week... is when nick showed up on my doorstep.

we dont have a bedroom for him to sleep in that is why he is in my little workshop. it is warm and dry and he has a soft bed in the loft, however it is really against city ordinance for him to stay there and if we get caught we would get fined. He did sleep in this computer room 2 years ago when he stayed here before, but he had to sleep on the floor, was in the middle of our office space and was not very happy there, so we let him sleep in the loft this time. besides that he prefers to be out there alone.

the reason we were trying to call all sorts of people for some sort of help for him was that we are desperate to get him well and we had hoped to find a way to get him some help. unfortunately locking him up is about the only way to do that. unless nick is willing to go to a doctor and get diagnosed as gravely disabled so he can get on disability he is going to continue to fall through the cracks. he is pretty dysfunctional, but we cant prove it to get help unless he cooperates, and we cant afford to take care of him for the rest of his life... besides that... we wont be here forever...what then?

I havent booted him out yet. we are hoping for that miracle.

From: nrtach

To: Withdrawal_and_Recovery

Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 2:30 PM

Subject: sharon

i'm mom to 4 children. I'm trying to be understanding of your feelings about your son. i dont know how much of my sons story can compare the hell you're going through. When my oldest was 19, he was convicted of selling cocaine to an undercover cop and was sentenced to 9 months in jail. My one and only concern was my son, i wasn't concerned with the expense of taking care of his newborn daughter or the 10,000.00 my husband and i paid to the lawyer and we are by no means wealthy. i love my husband to death but i remember having fights over my eldest ( he's not his biological son, but mine by a previous marriage) and i told him not to make me choose between you and my kids cause you'll lose everytime. maybe you can just take this day by day without any deadlines on jobs or moving out. following catherines advise, which to me is right on the money, your son can make baby steps. kids are real hard to love sometimes, but they should always know that mom will love and take care of them in their times of need, and it sounds like nick really needs his mom right now.thinking of youcolleenTo subscribe to the off-topic list go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialWandR/

[Guest guest]

I have been notoriously guilty of bailing nick out of every problem he has ever had because he was my only son and my only child left and he was my life

How much of your erratic life has contributed to Nick's problems now do you think??? That's a pretty chaotic life you've led. It had to have had a major negative impact on your child to see this. I hope there is a solution to help Nick get on his feet, and get stable. So sorry for your travails.

"Blind Reason"

a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's

Unsafe At Any Dose

[Guest guest]

yes Im sure the past has effected nick and Im sure Im to blame for a lot of it. thats why I feel guilty and always bail him out.

but then we have to consider the enabling part...

how much has my constant bailing out and enabling done to keep him dependant on me. its a fine line and hard to decide what is right.

Re: sharon/can I explain a little?

I have been notoriously guilty of bailing nick out of every problem he has ever had because he was my only son and my only child left and he was my life How much of your erratic life has contributed to Nick's problems now do you think??? That's a pretty chaotic life you've led. It had to have had a major negative impact on your child to see this. I hope there is a solution to help Nick get on his feet, and get stable. So sorry for your travails.

"Blind Reason" a novel of pharmaceutical intrigueThink your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It'sUnsafe At Any DoseTo subscribe to the off-topic list go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialWandR/

[Guest guest]

Dear Sharon,

You said:

<< yes Im sure the past has effected nick and Im sure Im to blame for

a lot of

it. thats why I feel guilty and always bail him out.

but then we have to consider the enabling part...

how much has my constant bailing out and enabling done to keep him

dependant

on me. its a fine line and hard to decide what is right.>>

** The enabling is when you keep giving him material goods (it

probably helps you with some of the guilt you said you feel as well)

and don't work with him toward a resolution.

By presenting him with a fairly low expectation contract, you are

trying to engage him and help him make changes. This is a process

that takes time. No matter what you do in other ways - you could

hit the lottery and buy him a house, a new truck, hell, even get him

a housekeeper, but it woyn't make any difference where a difference

needs to be made. This requires the personal involvement over time.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

unfortunately at this point the time is short.

Re: sharon/can I explain a little?

Dear Sharon, You said:<< yes Im sure the past has effected nick and Im sure Im to blame for a lot of it. thats why I feel guilty and always bail him out.but then we have to consider the enabling part...how much has my constant bailing out and enabling done to keep him dependant on me. its a fine line and hard to decide what is right.>> ** The enabling is when you keep giving him material goods (it probably helps you with some of the guilt you said you feel as well)and don't work with him toward a resolution. By presenting him with a fairly low expectation contract, you are trying to engage him and help him make changes. This is a process that takes time. No matter what you do in other ways - you could hit the lottery and buy him a house, a new truck, hell, even get him a housekeeper, but it woyn't make any difference where a difference needs to be made. This requires the personal involvement over time.Regards,To subscribe to the off-topic list go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialWandR/

[Guest guest]

> unfortunately at this point the time is short.>>

** There are still several weeks, though. Would it hurt to

believe he could possibly come around to a point of being able to

maintain alone with some treatment right now?

Regards,

> Dear Sharon,

>

>

> You said:

>

>

>

> << yes Im sure the past has effected nick and Im sure Im to blame

for

> a lot of

> it. thats why I feel guilty and always bail him out.

> but then we have to consider the enabling part...

> how much has my constant bailing out and enabling done to keep him

> dependant

> on me. its a fine line and hard to decide what is right.>>

>

>

> ** The enabling is when you keep giving him material goods (it

> probably helps you with some of the guilt you said you feel as

well)

> and don't work with him toward a resolution.

>

>

> By presenting him with a fairly low expectation contract, you

are

> trying to engage him and help him make changes. This is a process

> that takes time. No matter what you do in other ways - you could

> hit the lottery and buy him a house, a new truck, hell, even get

him

> a housekeeper, but it woyn't make any difference where a

difference

> needs to be made. This requires the personal involvement over

time.

>

>

> Regards,

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> To subscribe to the off-topic list go to:

>

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialWandR/

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> unfortunately at this point the time is short.>>

** There are still several weeks, though. Would it hurt to

believe he could possibly come around to a point of being able to

maintain alone with some treatment right now?

Regards,

> Dear Sharon,

>

>

> You said:

>

>

>

> << yes Im sure the past has effected nick and Im sure Im to blame

for

> a lot of

> it. thats why I feel guilty and always bail him out.

> but then we have to consider the enabling part...

> how much has my constant bailing out and enabling done to keep him

> dependant

> on me. its a fine line and hard to decide what is right.>>

>

>

> ** The enabling is when you keep giving him material goods (it

> probably helps you with some of the guilt you said you feel as

well)

> and don't work with him toward a resolution.

>

>

> By presenting him with a fairly low expectation contract, you

are

> trying to engage him and help him make changes. This is a process

> that takes time. No matter what you do in other ways - you could

> hit the lottery and buy him a house, a new truck, hell, even get

him

> a housekeeper, but it woyn't make any difference where a

difference

> needs to be made. This requires the personal involvement over

time.

>

>

> Regards,

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> To subscribe to the off-topic list go to:

>

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialWandR/

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

no Im working on it.

Re: sharon/can I explain a little?

> unfortunately at this point the time is short.>> ** There are still several weeks, though. Would it hurt to believe he could possibly come around to a point of being able to maintain alone with some treatment right now?Regards,> Dear Sharon,> > > You said:> > > > << yes Im sure the past has effected nick and Im sure Im to blame for> a lot of> it. thats why I feel guilty and always bail him out.> but then we have to consider the enabling part...> how much has my constant bailing out and enabling done to keep him> dependant> on me. its a fine line and hard to decide what is right.>>> > > ** The enabling is when you keep giving him material goods (it> probably helps you with some of the guilt you said you feel as well)> and don't work with him toward a resolution.> > > By presenting him with a fairly low expectation contract, you are> trying to engage him and help him make changes. This is a process> that takes time. No matter what you do in other ways - you could> hit the lottery and buy him a house, a new truck, hell, even get him> a housekeeper, but it woyn't make any difference where a difference> needs to be made. This requires the personal involvement over time.> > > Regards,> > > > > > > > To subscribe to the off-topic list go to:> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialWandR/> > > > >

[Guest guest]

no Im working on it.

Re: sharon/can I explain a little?

> unfortunately at this point the time is short.>> ** There are still several weeks, though. Would it hurt to believe he could possibly come around to a point of being able to maintain alone with some treatment right now?Regards,> Dear Sharon,> > > You said:> > > > << yes Im sure the past has effected nick and Im sure Im to blame for> a lot of> it. thats why I feel guilty and always bail him out.> but then we have to consider the enabling part...> how much has my constant bailing out and enabling done to keep him> dependant> on me. its a fine line and hard to decide what is right.>>> > > ** The enabling is when you keep giving him material goods (it> probably helps you with some of the guilt you said you feel as well)> and don't work with him toward a resolution.> > > By presenting him with a fairly low expectation contract, you are> trying to engage him and help him make changes. This is a process> that takes time. No matter what you do in other ways - you could> hit the lottery and buy him a house, a new truck, hell, even get him> a housekeeper, but it woyn't make any difference where a difference> needs to be made. This requires the personal involvement over time.> > > Regards,> > > > > > > > To subscribe to the off-topic list go to:> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialWandR/> > > > >