Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Thank you very much Amarette for mentioning your otoscerosis, which is indeed highly relevant. The likely reason why ear problems or deafness are not so prominent in mispohonia circles is that those misophonics with ear disease think (probably correctly) that the misophonia is secondary to ear disease, so go to otologists. Misophonia sites are therefore biassed towards those looking for a non-otological cause. Just because there is no obvious ear disorder, and particularly if there is no pure tone loss on an audiogram, should not mean that the cause is non-otological, it may mean one has to look harder for atypical or subtle otological disorder. Amarette clearly has misophonia in one ear only, which surely shows that the cause is in the ear and not the brain. As someone who has tested hundreds of otoscerotics, I was surprised to read 's view that OS affects only one ear most of the time. I agree with Wikipedia that it is generally a bilateral condition, though one ear may be much more severely affected. In most cases of apparent unilateral OS, I found characteristic reversed stapedial reflexes in the good ear even when the pure tone audiogram was normal. Interestingly, this is one of the very same reflex abnormalities I found in patients with every other cause of audiosensitivity (including autism!). The obvious cause for these reversed reflexes was mechanical, slippage at the incudo-stapedial joint for example. Since the common cause of audiosensitivity in other conditions seems to be pressure change inside the cochlea (hydrops), it now seems more parsimonious to postulate the same mechanism in OS. If the pressure drops, the footplate could get jammed in the oval window for example. The clinical manifestation of hydrops is Meniere Spectrum Disorder. This will now account for some occasional features of OS, like tinnitus, musical hallucinations, vertigo, cochlear otosclerosis, and audiosensitivity (in the early stages of OS). Other characteristic early MSD symptoms are muffled dull hearing and pitch distortion. I do not think there is any ear disorder apart from MSD that can produce both muddled and acute hearing. ********************************************************************** > > C, > > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > ________________________________ > > To: " Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > > Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM > Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso > >  > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation †" there is a chance the > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > To: Soundsensitivity > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM > Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso > > >  > Dr. - > > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss. > > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal. > > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > has hearing issues. > > Regards, > Amarette > > > > From: M <Oregon7@> > > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM > > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso > > > > > > > > >  > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss. > > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > >does contribute to the misery a bit. > > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve. > > > > > > I suspect they do. > > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > >system to plenty of stimulation. > > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly. > > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs. > > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > >types of ear-food for your brain! > > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > >anorexia for the ears! > > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > >experience! > > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...) > > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 With Normal hearing levels we can detect sounds at 0 decibels, however that does not always transfer into how we understand speech. So if speech or sounds come in muddled to you, then your ability to detect the sounds may be Normal but your ability to interpret them may be off. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 9:45 AMSubject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso C, Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AMSubject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I can assure you Otoscerlosis ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of the time. Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis is not getting worse, I would opt out of an operation – there is a chance the operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you don’t. Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on average then another operation may be needed. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AMSubject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso Dr. -I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person has hearing issues.Regards,Amarette> > From: M <Oregon7@>> > To: Soundsensitivity > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > Â > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > I suspect they do.> > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of anorexia for the ears!> > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory experience!> > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 With Normal hearing levels we can detect sounds at 0 decibels, however that does not always transfer into how we understand speech. So if speech or sounds come in muddled to you, then your ability to detect the sounds may be Normal but your ability to interpret them may be off. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 9:45 AMSubject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso C, Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AMSubject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I can assure you Otoscerlosis ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of the time. Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis is not getting worse, I would opt out of an operation – there is a chance the operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you don’t. Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on average then another operation may be needed. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AMSubject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso Dr. -I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person has hearing issues.Regards,Amarette> > From: M <Oregon7@>> > To: Soundsensitivity > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > Â > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > I suspect they do.> > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of anorexia for the ears!> > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory experience!> > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 I firmly believe Misophonia has little to do with our hearing and ALL to do with our brain. Visual sensitivities cause the same reaction to many of us as sounds do - for some of us, a pen clicking is Ok BUT the sound of Gum snapping causes rage. There are MANY sounds that create anger and stress in some Misophonia sufferers that do not bother others who suffer from it. We even go crazy from a breathing sound which is sometimes barely audible. I believe it is not the sound that bothers us but the action. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 7:46 AMSubject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso Thank you very much Amarette for mentioning your otoscerosis, which is indeed highly relevant. The likely reason why ear problems or deafness are not so prominent in mispohonia circles is that those misophonics with ear disease think (probably correctly) that the misophonia is secondary to ear disease, so go to otologists. Misophonia sites are therefore biassed towards those looking for a non-otological cause. Just because there is no obvious ear disorder, and particularly if there is no pure tone loss on an audiogram, should not mean that the cause is non-otological, it may mean one has to look harder for atypical or subtle otological disorder. Amarette clearly has misophonia in one ear only, which surely shows that the cause is in the ear and not the brain. As someone who has tested hundreds of otoscerotics, I was surprised to read 's view that OS affects only one ear most of the time. I agree with Wikipedia that it is generally a bilateral condition, though one ear may be much more severely affected. In most cases of apparent unilateral OS, I found characteristic reversed stapedial reflexes in the good ear even when the pure tone audiogram was normal. Interestingly, this is one of the very same reflex abnormalities I found in patients with every other cause of audiosensitivity (including autism!). The obvious cause for these reversed reflexes was mechanical, slippage at the incudo-stapedial joint for example. Since the common cause of audiosensitivity in other conditions seems to be pressure change inside the cochlea (hydrops), it now seems more parsimonious to postulate the same mechanism in OS. If the pressure drops, the footplate could get jammed in the oval window for example. The clinical manifestation of hydrops is Meniere Spectrum Disorder. This will now account for some occasional features of OS, like tinnitus, musical hallucinations, vertigo, cochlear otosclerosis, and audiosensitivity (in the early stages of OS). Other characteristic early MSD symptoms are muffled dull hearing and pitch distortion. I do not think there is any ear disorder apart from MSD that can produce both muddled and acute hearing.**********************************************************************>> C,> > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > ________________________________> > To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >> Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> >  > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation â€" there is a chance the > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > To: Soundsensitivity > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > >  > Dr. -> > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > has hearing issues.> > Regards,> Amarette> > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > >  > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > >does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > >types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > >experience!> > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 I firmly believe Misophonia has little to do with our hearing and ALL to do with our brain. Visual sensitivities cause the same reaction to many of us as sounds do - for some of us, a pen clicking is Ok BUT the sound of Gum snapping causes rage. There are MANY sounds that create anger and stress in some Misophonia sufferers that do not bother others who suffer from it. We even go crazy from a breathing sound which is sometimes barely audible. I believe it is not the sound that bothers us but the action. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 7:46 AMSubject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso Thank you very much Amarette for mentioning your otoscerosis, which is indeed highly relevant. The likely reason why ear problems or deafness are not so prominent in mispohonia circles is that those misophonics with ear disease think (probably correctly) that the misophonia is secondary to ear disease, so go to otologists. Misophonia sites are therefore biassed towards those looking for a non-otological cause. Just because there is no obvious ear disorder, and particularly if there is no pure tone loss on an audiogram, should not mean that the cause is non-otological, it may mean one has to look harder for atypical or subtle otological disorder. Amarette clearly has misophonia in one ear only, which surely shows that the cause is in the ear and not the brain. As someone who has tested hundreds of otoscerotics, I was surprised to read 's view that OS affects only one ear most of the time. I agree with Wikipedia that it is generally a bilateral condition, though one ear may be much more severely affected. In most cases of apparent unilateral OS, I found characteristic reversed stapedial reflexes in the good ear even when the pure tone audiogram was normal. Interestingly, this is one of the very same reflex abnormalities I found in patients with every other cause of audiosensitivity (including autism!). The obvious cause for these reversed reflexes was mechanical, slippage at the incudo-stapedial joint for example. Since the common cause of audiosensitivity in other conditions seems to be pressure change inside the cochlea (hydrops), it now seems more parsimonious to postulate the same mechanism in OS. If the pressure drops, the footplate could get jammed in the oval window for example. The clinical manifestation of hydrops is Meniere Spectrum Disorder. This will now account for some occasional features of OS, like tinnitus, musical hallucinations, vertigo, cochlear otosclerosis, and audiosensitivity (in the early stages of OS). Other characteristic early MSD symptoms are muffled dull hearing and pitch distortion. I do not think there is any ear disorder apart from MSD that can produce both muddled and acute hearing.**********************************************************************>> C,> > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > ________________________________> > To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >> Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> >  > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation â€" there is a chance the > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > To: Soundsensitivity > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > >  > Dr. -> > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > has hearing issues.> > Regards,> Amarette> > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > >  > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > >does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > >types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > >experience!> > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 I agree that Misophonia in not a physical problem. If I hear a sound similar to a trigger noise, say that sounds like someone eating and find out that it really was not eating but something else, the nearly identical sound doesn't bother me in the least. Only when it is a person making the noise, especially if they are deliberately doing it to bother me. Then I feel out of control, a big part of the extreme reaction for me. That said, I do have very acute hearing and can diferentiate sounds I think better than most people. Like my radar is looking for a trigger noise to get angry at. Funny, but I am a very easygoing person otherwise. Also, I have found it to be very benefical to expose myself, in varying doses, to lots of human sounds. Spent the day with a mob of noisy kids yesterday. By the end of the day I was practically numb to all the screaming kids and ambiant eating noises. It requires being in good mental, emotional and physical condition, but plenty worth the effort. Isolation from noise and other bothersome sounds is , I believe, a dangerous thing if you have this condition. It only leads to a lower tolerance to sound. I spent many years in self- imposed isolation, and I won't do it anymore. I missed out on too much of the good things in life. I refuse to die a lonely old man! Mike To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 5:21 AMSubject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso I firmly believe Misophonia has little to do with our hearing and ALL to do with our brain. Visual sensitivities cause the same reaction to many of us as sounds do - for some of us, a pen clicking is Ok BUT the sound of Gum snapping causes rage. There are MANY sounds that create anger and stress in some Misophonia sufferers that do not bother others who suffer from it. We even go crazy from a breathing sound which is sometimes barely audible. I believe it is not the sound that bothers us but the action. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 7:46 AMSubject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso Thank you very much Amarette for mentioning your otoscerosis, which is indeed highly relevant. The likely reason why ear problems or deafness are not so prominent in mispohonia circles is that those misophonics with ear disease think (probably correctly) that the misophonia is secondary to ear disease, so go to otologists. Misophonia sites are therefore biassed towards those looking for a non-otological cause. Just because there is no obvious ear disorder, and particularly if there is no pure tone loss on an audiogram, should not mean that the cause is non-otological, it may mean one has to look harder for atypical or subtle otological disorder. Amarette clearly has misophonia in one ear only, which surely shows that the cause is in the ear and not the brain. As someone who has tested hundreds of otoscerotics, I was surprised to read 's view that OS affects only one ear most of the time. I agree with Wikipedia that it is generally a bilateral condition, though one ear may be much more severely affected. In most cases of apparent unilateral OS, I found characteristic reversed stapedial reflexes in the good ear even when the pure tone audiogram was normal. Interestingly, this is one of the very same reflex abnormalities I found in patients with every other cause of audiosensitivity (including autism!). The obvious cause for these reversed reflexes was mechanical, slippage at the incudo-stapedial joint for example. Since the common cause of audiosensitivity in other conditions seems to be pressure change inside the cochlea (hydrops), it now seems more parsimonious to postulate the same mechanism in OS. If the pressure drops, the footplate could get jammed in the oval window for example. The clinical manifestation of hydrops is Meniere Spectrum Disorder. This will now account for some occasional features of OS, like tinnitus, musical hallucinations, vertigo, cochlear otosclerosis, and audiosensitivity (in the early stages of OS). Other characteristic early MSD symptoms are muffled dull hearing and pitch distortion. I do not think there is any ear disorder apart from MSD that can produce both muddled and acute hearing.**********************************************************************>> C,> > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > ________________________________> > To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >> Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> >  > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation â€" there is a chance the > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > To: Soundsensitivity > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > >  > Dr. -> > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > has hearing issues.> > Regards,> Amarette> > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > >  > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > >does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > >types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > >experience!> > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 I believe that cochlear hypersensitivity (audiosensitivity)in babies can lead to a cascade of severe psychological disorders, and in particular is sufficient to induce all the symptoms of infantile autism. Hence discussion of various higher brain mechanisms that malfunction in misophonia is irrelevant to the theory that a peripheral auditory disorder is essential to its development. What will easily disprove this theory is a series of misophonics whose cochlear function is beyond reproach. L has what I think is audiosensitivity, which is always, as far as I can establish, of cohlear origin. Ignoring that for the time being, can he be sure he has had pristine ears, including the following, now and in the past: 1. No history of ear disease or motion sickness. 2. Normal pure tone audiograms. 3. No dizziness, vertigo, wooziness, imbalance, agoraphobia. 4. No tinnitus, musical hallucinations, diplacusis. 5. No sensation of pressure or blockage in ears/head. 6. No symptoms of Meniere Spectrum Disorder. 7. No overreaction to common drugs. ********************************************************************* > > > > C, > > > > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: C <venojim@> > > To: " Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > > > Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM > > Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso > > > >  > > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation †" there is a chance the > > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > > > From: mommyamarette <Amarette83@> > > To: Soundsensitivity > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM > > Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso > > > > > >  > > Dr. - > > > > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss. > > > > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal. > > > > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > > has hearing issues. > > > > Regards, > > Amarette > > > > > > From: M <Oregon7@> > > > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM > > > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss. > > > > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > > >does contribute to the misery a bit. > > > > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve. > > > > > > > > I suspect they do. > > > > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > > >system to plenty of stimulation. > > > > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly. > > > > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs. > > > > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > > >types of ear-food for your brain! > > > > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > > >anorexia for the ears! > > > > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > > >experience! > > > > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...) > > > > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 , As far as I know, it is negative on all 7 or your questions. I have had extensive hearing tests in the past with no indication of any problem. Mike To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 11:02 AMSubject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso I believe that cochlear hypersensitivity (audiosensitivity)in babies can lead to a cascade of severe psychological disorders, and in particular is sufficient to induce all the symptoms of infantile autism. Hence discussion of various higher brain mechanisms that malfunction in misophonia is irrelevant to the theory that a peripheral auditory disorder is essential to its development. What will easily disprove this theory is a series of misophonics whose cochlear function is beyond reproach. L has what I think is audiosensitivity, which is always, as far as I can establish, of cohlear origin. Ignoring that for the time being, can he be sure he has had pristine ears, including the following, now and in the past:1. No history of ear disease or motion sickness.2. Normal pure tone audiograms.3. No dizziness, vertigo, wooziness, imbalance, agoraphobia.4. No tinnitus, musical hallucinations, diplacusis.5. No sensation of pressure or blockage in ears/head.6. No symptoms of Meniere Spectrum Disorder.7. No overreaction to common drugs.*********************************************************************> >> > C,> > > > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > From: C <venojim@>> > To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >> > Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> > Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > >  > > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation â€" there is a chance the > > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > > > From: mommyamarette <Amarette83@>> > To: Soundsensitivity > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> > Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > >  > > Dr. -> > > > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > > > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > > > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > > has hearing issues.> > > > Regards,> > Amarette> > > > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > > >does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > > >types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > > >experience!> > > > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > > >> > >> >> > > >  > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 I have the same thing in that if I am being driven by a sound that I think is a trigger sound like snoring then find it is not being made by a person, it doesn't effect me. So strange..Sent from my iPhone I agree that Misophonia in not a physical problem. If I hear a sound similar to a trigger noise, say that sounds like someone eating and find out that it really was not eating but something else, the nearly identical sound doesn't bother me in the least. Only when it is a person making the noise, especially if they are deliberately doing it to bother me. Then I feel out of control, a big part of the extreme reaction for me. That said, I do have very acute hearing and can diferentiate sounds I think better than most people. Like my radar is looking for a trigger noise to get angry at. Funny, but I am a very easygoing person otherwise. Also, I have found it to be very benefical to expose myself, in varying doses, to lots of human sounds. Spent the day with a mob of noisy kids yesterday. By the end of the day I was practically numb to all the screaming kids and ambiant eating noises. It requires being in good mental, emotional and physical condition, but plenty worth the effort. Isolation from noise and other bothersome sounds is , I believe, a dangerous thing if you have this condition. It only leads to a lower tolerance to sound. I spent many years in self- imposed isolation, and I won't do it anymore. I missed out on too much of the good things in life. I refuse to die a lonely old man! Mike To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 5:21 AMSubject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso I firmly believe Misophonia has little to do with our hearing and ALL to do with our brain. Visual sensitivities cause the same reaction to many of us as sounds do - for some of us, a pen clicking is Ok BUT the sound of Gum snapping causes rage. There are MANY sounds that create anger and stress in some Misophonia sufferers that do not bother others who suffer from it. We even go crazy from a breathing sound which is sometimes barely audible. I believe it is not the sound that bothers us but the action. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 7:46 AMSubject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso Thank you very much Amarette for mentioning your otoscerosis, which is indeed highly relevant. The likely reason why ear problems or deafness are not so prominent in mispohonia circles is that those misophonics with ear disease think (probably correctly) that the misophonia is secondary to ear disease, so go to otologists. Misophonia sites are therefore biassed towards those looking for a non-otological cause. Just because there is no obvious ear disorder, and particularly if there is no pure tone loss on an audiogram, should not mean that the cause is non-otological, it may mean one has to look harder for atypical or subtle otological disorder. Amarette clearly has misophonia in one ear only, which surely shows that the cause is in the ear and not the brain. As someone who has tested hundreds of otoscerotics, I was surprised to read 's view that OS affects only one ear most of the time. I agree with Wikipedia that it is generally a bilateral condition, though one ear may be much more severely affected. In most cases of apparent unilateral OS, I found characteristic reversed stapedial reflexes in the good ear even when the pure tone audiogram was normal. Interestingly, this is one of the very same reflex abnormalities I found in patients with every other cause of audiosensitivity (including autism!). The obvious cause for these reversed reflexes was mechanical, slippage at the incudo-stapedial joint for example. Since the common cause of audiosensitivity in other conditions seems to be pressure change inside the cochlea (hydrops), it now seems more parsimonious to postulate the same mechanism in OS. If the pressure drops, the footplate could get jammed in the oval window for example. The clinical manifestation of hydrops is Meniere Spectrum Disorder. This will now account for some occasional features of OS, like tinnitus, musical hallucinations, vertigo, cochlear otosclerosis, and audiosensitivity (in the early stages of OS). Other characteristic early MSD symptoms are muffled dull hearing and pitch distortion. I do not think there is any ear disorder apart from MSD that can produce both muddled and acute hearing.**********************************************************************>> C,> > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > ________________________________> > To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >> Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> >  > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation â€" there is a chance the > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > To: Soundsensitivity > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > >  > Dr. -> > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > has hearing issues.> > Regards,> Amarette> > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > >  > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > >does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > >types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > >experience!> > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Mike - how can I get my 13 year old to have this attitude? He isolates himself.... I have the same thing in that if I am being driven by a sound that I think is a trigger sound like snoring then find it is not being made by a person, it doesn't effect me. So strange..Sent from my iPhone I agree that Misophonia in not a physical problem. If I hear a sound similar to a trigger noise, say that sounds like someone eating and find out that it really was not eating but something else, the nearly identical sound doesn't bother me in the least. Only when it is a person making the noise, especially if they are deliberately doing it to bother me. Then I feel out of control, a big part of the extreme reaction for me. That said, I do have very acute hearing and can diferentiate sounds I think better than most people. Like my radar is looking for a trigger noise to get angry at. Funny, but I am a very easygoing person otherwise. Also, I have found it to be very benefical to expose myself, in varying doses, to lots of human sounds. Spent the day with a mob of noisy kids yesterday. By the end of the day I was practically numb to all the screaming kids and ambiant eating noises. It requires being in good mental, emotional and physical condition, but plenty worth the effort. Isolation from noise and other bothersome sounds is , I believe, a dangerous thing if you have this condition. It only leads to a lower tolerance to sound. I spent many years in self- imposed isolation, and I won't do it anymore. I missed out on too much of the good things in life. I refuse to die a lonely old man! Mike To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 5:21 AMSubject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso I firmly believe Misophonia has little to do with our hearing and ALL to do with our brain. Visual sensitivities cause the same reaction to many of us as sounds do - for some of us, a pen clicking is Ok BUT the sound of Gum snapping causes rage. There are MANY sounds that create anger and stress in some Misophonia sufferers that do not bother others who suffer from it. We even go crazy from a breathing sound which is sometimes barely audible. I believe it is not the sound that bothers us but the action. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 7:46 AMSubject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso Thank you very much Amarette for mentioning your otoscerosis, which is indeed highly relevant. The likely reason why ear problems or deafness are not so prominent in mispohonia circles is that those misophonics with ear disease think (probably correctly) that the misophonia is secondary to ear disease, so go to otologists. Misophonia sites are therefore biassed towards those looking for a non-otological cause. Just because there is no obvious ear disorder, and particularly if there is no pure tone loss on an audiogram, should not mean that the cause is non-otological, it may mean one has to look harder for atypical or subtle otological disorder. Amarette clearly has misophonia in one ear only, which surely shows that the cause is in the ear and not the brain. As someone who has tested hundreds of otoscerotics, I was surprised to read 's view that OS affects only one ear most of the time. I agree with Wikipedia that it is generally a bilateral condition, though one ear may be much more severely affected. In most cases of apparent unilateral OS, I found characteristic reversed stapedial reflexes in the good ear even when the pure tone audiogram was normal. Interestingly, this is one of the very same reflex abnormalities I found in patients with every other cause of audiosensitivity (including autism!). The obvious cause for these reversed reflexes was mechanical, slippage at the incudo-stapedial joint for example. Since the common cause of audiosensitivity in other conditions seems to be pressure change inside the cochlea (hydrops), it now seems more parsimonious to postulate the same mechanism in OS. If the pressure drops, the footplate could get jammed in the oval window for example. The clinical manifestation of hydrops is Meniere Spectrum Disorder. This will now account for some occasional features of OS, like tinnitus, musical hallucinations, vertigo, cochlear otosclerosis, and audiosensitivity (in the early stages of OS). Other characteristic early MSD symptoms are muffled dull hearing and pitch distortion. I do not think there is any ear disorder apart from MSD that can produce both muddled and acute hearing.**********************************************************************>> C,> > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > ________________________________> > To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >> Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> >  > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation â€" there is a chance the > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > To: Soundsensitivity > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > >  > Dr. -> > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > has hearing issues.> > Regards,> Amarette> > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > >  > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > >does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > >types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > >experience!> > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 My daughter's Misophonia is directly related to neurological sensitivity...she has seizures that originate in the temporal lobe....and her rage episodes have even been recorded as "seizure" activity on a 24 hr. video monitored EEG.We should get someone to do a study of Misophonia sufferers and do video monitored EEG's of study participants and see how many have a neurological response to their trigger sounds. But, it has to be done in a way that the trigger sounds happen spontaneously when the person is expecting it. Because if the person, is expecting the sound then the response if muted. It has to be unanticipated in order to get a true response to the trigger sound that could then be documented on the EEG.Just an idea.Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/misoTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Friday, November 25, 2011, 1:02 PM I believe that cochlear hypersensitivity (audiosensitivity)in babies can lead to a cascade of severe psychological disorders, and in particular is sufficient to induce all the symptoms of infantile autism. Hence discussion of various higher brain mechanisms that malfunction in misophonia is irrelevant to the theory that a peripheral auditory disorder is essential to its development. What will easily disprove this theory is a series of misophonics whose cochlear function is beyond reproach. L has what I think is audiosensitivity, which is always, as far as I can establish, of cohlear origin. Ignoring that for the time being, can he be sure he has had pristine ears, including the following, now and in the past: 1. No history of ear disease or motion sickness. 2. Normal pure tone audiograms. 3. No dizziness, vertigo, wooziness, imbalance, agoraphobia. 4. No tinnitus, musical hallucinations, diplacusis. 5. No sensation of pressure or blockage in ears/head. 6. No symptoms of Meniere Spectrum Disorder. 7. No overreaction to common drugs. ********************************************************************* > > > > C, > > > > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: C <venojim@> > > To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > > > Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM > > Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso > > > >  > > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation â€" there is a chance the > > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > > > From: mommyamarette <Amarette83@> > > To: Soundsensitivity > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM > > Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso > > > > > >  > > Dr. - > > > > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss. > > > > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal. > > > > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > > has hearing issues. > > > > Regards, > > Amarette > > > > > > From: M <Oregon7@> > > > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM > > > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss. > > > > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > > >does contribute to the misery a bit. > > > > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve. > > > > > > > > I suspect they do. > > > > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > > >system to plenty of stimulation. > > > > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly. > > > > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs. > > > > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > > >types of ear-food for your brain! > > > > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > > >anorexia for the ears! > > > > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > > >experience! > > > > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...) > > > > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 I have to say I do the same thing. The anticipation of noise can be almost as bad as the sound itself. To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >Sent: Fri, November 25, 2011 6:39:00 PMSubject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso I have the same thing in that if I am being driven by a sound that I think is a trigger sound like snoring then find it is not being made by a person, it doesn't effect me. So strange..Sent from my iPhone I agree that Misophonia in not a physical problem. If I hear a sound similar to a trigger noise, say that sounds like someone eating and find out that it really was not eating but something else, the nearly identical sound doesn't bother me in the least. Only when it is a person making the noise, especially if they are deliberately doing it to bother me. Then I feel out of control, a big part of the extreme reaction for me. That said, I do have very acute hearing and can diferentiate sounds I think better than most people. Like my radar is looking for a trigger noise to get angry at. Funny, but I am a very easygoing person otherwise. Also, I have found it to be very benefical to expose myself, in varying doses, to lots of human sounds. Spent the day with a mob of noisy kids yesterday. By the end of the day I was practically numb to all the screaming kids and ambiant eating noises. It requires being in good mental, emotional and physical condition, but plenty worth the effort. Isolation from noise and other bothersome sounds is , I believe, a dangerous thing if you have this condition. It only leads to a lower tolerance to sound. I spent many years in self- imposed isolation, and I won't do it anymore. I missed out on too much of the good things in life. I refuse to die a lonely old man! Mike To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 5:21 AMSubject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso I firmly believe Misophonia has little to do with our hearing and ALL to do with our brain. Visual sensitivities cause the same reaction to many of us as sounds do - for some of us, a pen clicking is Ok BUT the sound of Gum snapping causes rage. There are MANY sounds that create anger and stress in some Misophonia sufferers that do not bother others who suffer from it. We even go crazy from a breathing sound which is sometimes barely audible. I believe it is not the sound that bothers us but the action. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 7:46 AMSubject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso Thank you very much Amarette for mentioning your otoscerosis, which is indeed highly relevant. The likely reason why ear problems or deafness are not so prominent in mispohonia circles is that those misophonics with ear disease think (probably correctly) that the misophonia is secondary to ear disease, so go to otologists. Misophonia sites are therefore biassed towards those looking for a non-otological cause. Just because there is no obvious ear disorder, and particularly if there is no pure tone loss on an audiogram, should not mean that the cause is non-otological, it may mean one has to look harder for atypical or subtle otological disorder. Amarette clearly has misophonia in one ear only, which surely shows that the cause is in the ear and not the brain. As someone who has tested hundreds of otoscerotics, I was surprised to read 's view that OS affects only one ear most of the time. I agree with Wikipedia that it is generally a bilateral condition, though one ear may be much more severely affected. In most cases of apparent unilateral OS, I found characteristic reversed stapedial reflexes in the good ear even when the pure tone audiogram was normal. Interestingly, this is one of the very same reflex abnormalities I found in patients with every other cause of audiosensitivity (including autism!). The obvious cause for these reversed reflexes was mechanical, slippage at the incudo-stapedial joint for example. Since the common cause of audiosensitivity in other conditions seems to be pressure change inside the cochlea (hydrops), it now seems more parsimonious to postulate the same mechanism in OS. If the pressure drops, the footplate could get jammed in the oval window for example. The clinical manifestation of hydrops is Meniere Spectrum Disorder. This will now account for some occasional features of OS, like tinnitus, musical hallucinations, vertigo, cochlear otosclerosis, and audiosensitivity (in the early stages of OS). Other characteristic early MSD symptoms are muffled dull hearing and pitch distortion. I do not think there is any ear disorder apart from MSD that can produce both muddled and acute hearing.**********************************************************************>> C,> > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > ________________________________> From: C > To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >> Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> >  > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation â€" there is a chance the > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > From: mommyamarette > To: Soundsensitivity > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > >  > Dr. -> > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > has hearing issues.> > Regards,> Amarette> > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > >  > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > >does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > >types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > >experience!> > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 , That is very interesting. If misophonia episodes are visual with an EEG I wonder what happens in the brain when we have a visual "misophonia (wrong work, but don't know what else to call it!)? When something visual bothers us. I wonder if it's in the same part of the brain? To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Fri, November 25, 2011 7:21:07 PMSubject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso My daughter's Misophonia is directly related to neurological sensitivity...she has seizures that originate in the temporal lobe....and her rage episodes have even been recorded as "seizure" activity on a 24 hr. video monitored EEG. We should get someone to do a study of Misophonia sufferers and do video monitored EEG's of study participants and see how many have a neurological response to their trigger sounds. But, it has to be done in a way that the trigger sounds happen spontaneously when the person is expecting it. Because if the person, is expecting the sound then the response if muted. It has to be unanticipated in order to get a true response to the trigger sound that could then be documented on the EEG. Just an idea. Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/misoTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Friday, November 25, 2011, 1:02 PM I believe that cochlear hypersensitivity (audiosensitivity)in babies can lead to a cascade of severe psychological disorders, and in particular is sufficient to induce all the symptoms of infantile autism. Hence discussion of various higher brain mechanisms that malfunction in misophonia is irrelevant to the theory that a peripheral auditory disorder is essential to its development. What will easily disprove this theory is a series of misophonics whose cochlear function is beyond reproach. L has what I think is audiosensitivity, which is always, as far as I can establish, of cohlear origin. Ignoring that for the time being, can he be sure he has had pristine ears, including the following, now and in the past:1. No history of ear disease or motion sickness.2. Normal pure tone audiograms.3. No dizziness, vertigo, wooziness, imbalance, agoraphobia.4. No tinnitus, musical hallucinations, diplacusis.5. No sensation of pressure or blockage in ears/head.6. No symptoms of Meniere Spectrum Disorder.7. No overreaction to common drugs.*********************************************************************> >> > C,> > > > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > From: C <venojim@>> > To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >> > Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> > Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > >  > > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation â€" there is a chance the > > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > > > From: mommyamarette <Amarette83@>> > To: Soundsensitivity > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> > Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > >  > > Dr. -> > > > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > > > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > > > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > > has hearing issues.> > > > Regards,> > Amarette> > > > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > > >does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > > >types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > > >experience!> > > > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > > >> > >> >> > > >  > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 So true, my cat does not annoy me at all! To cope, I try the " mind-over-matter " approach, which sometimes just makes me angrier. I often leave the room and return to isolation whenever I hear a trigger sound. However, I do my best to hold on for at least 3 consecutive sounds - I find that it works best when I am feeling well - i.e. I do not have to leave the room. So, yes, it's a struggle. I try not to anticipate and to stick with the " take it as it comes " attitude. Its a work in progress... I have the same thing in that if I am being driven by a sound that I think is a trigger sound like snoring then find it is not being made by a person, it doesn't effect me. So strange..Sent from my iPhone I agree that Misophonia in not a physical problem. If I hear a sound similar to a trigger noise, say that sounds like someone eating and find out that it really was not eating but something else, the nearly identical sound doesn't bother me in the least. Only when it is a person making the noise, especially if they are deliberately doing it to bother me. Then I feel out of control, a big part of the extreme reaction for me. That said, I do have very acute hearing and can diferentiate sounds I think better than most people. Like my radar is looking for a trigger noise to get angry at. Funny, but I am a very easygoing person otherwise. Also, I have found it to be very benefical to expose myself, in varying doses, to lots of human sounds. Spent the day with a mob of noisy kids yesterday. By the end of the day I was practically numb to all the screaming kids and ambiant eating noises. It requires being in good mental, emotional and physical condition, but plenty worth the effort. Isolation from noise and other bothersome sounds is , I believe, a dangerous thing if you have this condition. It only leads to a lower tolerance to sound. I spent many years in self- imposed isolation, and I won't do it anymore. I missed out on too much of the good things in life. I refuse to die a lonely old man! Mike To: " Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 5:21 AM Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso I firmly believe Misophonia has little to do with our hearing and ALL to do with our brain. Visual sensitivities cause the same reaction to many of us as sounds do - for some of us, a pen clicking is Ok BUT the sound of Gum snapping causes rage. There are MANY sounds that create anger and stress in some Misophonia sufferers that do not bother others who suffer from it. We even go crazy from a breathing sound which is sometimes barely audible. I believe it is not the sound that bothers us but the action. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 7:46 AM Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso Thank you very much Amarette for mentioning your otoscerosis, which is indeed highly relevant. The likely reason why ear problems or deafness are not so prominent in mispohonia circles is that those misophonics with ear disease think (probably correctly) that the misophonia is secondary to ear disease, so go to otologists. Misophonia sites are therefore biassed towards those looking for a non-otological cause. Just because there is no obvious ear disorder, and particularly if there is no pure tone loss on an audiogram, should not mean that the cause is non-otological, it may mean one has to look harder for atypical or subtle otological disorder. Amarette clearly has misophonia in one ear only, which surely shows that the cause is in the ear and not the brain. As someone who has tested hundreds of otoscerotics, I was surprised to read 's view that OS affects only one ear most of the time. I agree with Wikipedia that it is generally a bilateral condition, though one ear may be much more severely affected. In most cases of apparent unilateral OS, I found characteristic reversed stapedial reflexes in the good ear even when the pure tone audiogram was normal. Interestingly, this is one of the very same reflex abnormalities I found in patients with every other cause of audiosensitivity (including autism!). The obvious cause for these reversed reflexes was mechanical, slippage at the incudo-stapedial joint for example. Since the common cause of audiosensitivity in other conditions seems to be pressure change inside the cochlea (hydrops), it now seems more parsimonious to postulate the same mechanism in OS. If the pressure drops, the footplate could get jammed in the oval window for example. The clinical manifestation of hydrops is Meniere Spectrum Disorder. This will now account for some occasional features of OS, like tinnitus, musical hallucinations, vertigo, cochlear otosclerosis, and audiosensitivity (in the early stages of OS). Other characteristic early MSD symptoms are muffled dull hearing and pitch distortion. I do not think there is any ear disorder apart from MSD that can produce both muddled and acute hearing. ********************************************************************** >> C,> > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > ________________________________> > To: " Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > > Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> >  > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation †" there is a chance the > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > To: Soundsensitivity > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > >  > Dr. -> > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > has hearing issues.> > Regards, > Amarette> > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > >  > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > >does contribute to the misery a bit. > > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs. > > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > >types of ear-food for your brain! > > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > >experience!> > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 I know from experience when I am doing something I enjoy very much, and am focused and engaged that my problem does not bother me as much. Especially with people I really enjoy. It could help to find things to keep his mind off of the trigger sounds as much as possible. He should start by taking little doses of esposure at a time followed by alone time to restore. It may be a start. Mike To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 4:47 PMSubject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso Mike - how can I get my 13 year old to have this attitude? He isolates himself.... I have the same thing in that if I am being driven by a sound that I think is a trigger sound like snoring then find it is not being made by a person, it doesn't effect me. So strange..Sent from my iPhone I agree that Misophonia in not a physical problem. If I hear a sound similar to a trigger noise, say that sounds like someone eating and find out that it really was not eating but something else, the nearly identical sound doesn't bother me in the least. Only when it is a person making the noise, especially if they are deliberately doing it to bother me. Then I feel out of control, a big part of the extreme reaction for me. That said, I do have very acute hearing and can diferentiate sounds I think better than most people. Like my radar is looking for a trigger noise to get angry at. Funny, but I am a very easygoing person otherwise. Also, I have found it to be very benefical to expose myself, in varying doses, to lots of human sounds. Spent the day with a mob of noisy kids yesterday. By the end of the day I was practically numb to all the screaming kids and ambiant eating noises. It requires being in good mental, emotional and physical condition, but plenty worth the effort. Isolation from noise and other bothersome sounds is , I believe, a dangerous thing if you have this condition. It only leads to a lower tolerance to sound. I spent many years in self- imposed isolation, and I won't do it anymore. I missed out on too much of the good things in life. I refuse to die a lonely old man! Mike To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 5:21 AMSubject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso I firmly believe Misophonia has little to do with our hearing and ALL to do with our brain. Visual sensitivities cause the same reaction to many of us as sounds do - for some of us, a pen clicking is Ok BUT the sound of Gum snapping causes rage. There are MANY sounds that create anger and stress in some Misophonia sufferers that do not bother others who suffer from it. We even go crazy from a breathing sound which is sometimes barely audible. I believe it is not the sound that bothers us but the action. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 7:46 AMSubject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso Thank you very much Amarette for mentioning your otoscerosis, which is indeed highly relevant. The likely reason why ear problems or deafness are not so prominent in mispohonia circles is that those misophonics with ear disease think (probably correctly) that the misophonia is secondary to ear disease, so go to otologists. Misophonia sites are therefore biassed towards those looking for a non-otological cause. Just because there is no obvious ear disorder, and particularly if there is no pure tone loss on an audiogram, should not mean that the cause is non-otological, it may mean one has to look harder for atypical or subtle otological disorder. Amarette clearly has misophonia in one ear only, which surely shows that the cause is in the ear and not the brain. As someone who has tested hundreds of otoscerotics, I was surprised to read 's view that OS affects only one ear most of the time. I agree with Wikipedia that it is generally a bilateral condition, though one ear may be much more severely affected. In most cases of apparent unilateral OS, I found characteristic reversed stapedial reflexes in the good ear even when the pure tone audiogram was normal. Interestingly, this is one of the very same reflex abnormalities I found in patients with every other cause of audiosensitivity (including autism!). The obvious cause for these reversed reflexes was mechanical, slippage at the incudo-stapedial joint for example. Since the common cause of audiosensitivity in other conditions seems to be pressure change inside the cochlea (hydrops), it now seems more parsimonious to postulate the same mechanism in OS. If the pressure drops, the footplate could get jammed in the oval window for example. The clinical manifestation of hydrops is Meniere Spectrum Disorder. This will now account for some occasional features of OS, like tinnitus, musical hallucinations, vertigo, cochlear otosclerosis, and audiosensitivity (in the early stages of OS). Other characteristic early MSD symptoms are muffled dull hearing and pitch distortion. I do not think there is any ear disorder apart from MSD that can produce both muddled and acute hearing.**********************************************************************>> C,> > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > ________________________________> From: C > To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >> Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> >  > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation â€" there is a chance the > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > From: mommyamarette > To: Soundsensitivity > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > >  > Dr. -> > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > has hearing issues.> > Regards,> Amarette> > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > >  > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > >does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > >types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > >experience!> > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Would have to be in the visual cortex...I think???There is also another mind of scan where reactive parts of the brain light when activated....have wanted to have my daughter have one of these kind of scans...don't know what good that would do, but would show that there is reactivity in the brain.Mu daughter has Tuberous Sclerosis which causes her to have numerous brain lesions that cause her seizures, her Misophonia, and severe anxiety. She could have surgery on the temporal lobe lesion if it was causing debilitating seizures, but not for her Misophonia....but I am going to talk with her neurologist next time about pushing for more research into this problem. Might have to go to a Neuro audiologist??? Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/misoTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Friday, November 25, 2011, 1:02 PM I believe that cochlear hypersensitivity (audiosensitivity)in babies can lead to a cascade of severe psychological disorders, and in particular is sufficient to induce all the symptoms of infantile autism. Hence discussion of various higher brain mechanisms that malfunction in misophonia is irrelevant to the theory that a peripheral auditory disorder is essential to its development. What will easily disprove this theory is a series of misophonics whose cochlear function is beyond reproach. L has what I think is audiosensitivity, which is always, as far as I can establish, of cohlear origin. Ignoring that for the time being, can he be sure he has had pristine ears, including the following, now and in the past:1. No history of ear disease or motion sickness.2. Normal pure tone audiograms.3. No dizziness, vertigo, wooziness, imbalance, agoraphobia.4. No tinnitus, musical hallucinations, diplacusis.5. No sensation of pressure or blockage in ears/head.6. No symptoms of Meniere Spectrum Disorder.7. No overreaction to common drugs.*********************************************************************> >> > C,> > > > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > From: C <venojim@>> > To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >> > Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> > Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > >  > > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation â€" there is a chance the > > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > > > From: mommyamarette <Amarette83@>> > To: Soundsensitivity > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> > Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > >  > > Dr. -> > > > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > > > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > > > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > > has hearing issues.> > > > Regards,> > Amarette> > > > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > > >does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > > >types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > > >experience!> > > > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > > >> > >> >> > > >  > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 I would think just to know what is happening in the brain, even if there isn't any thing any one can do, would be helpful. Just to understand what is happening... To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Sat, November 26, 2011 11:05:39 AMSubject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso Would have to be in the visual cortex...I think??? There is also another mind of scan where reactive parts of the brain light when activated....have wanted to have my daughter have one of these kind of scans...don't know what good that would do, but would show that there is reactivity in the brain. Mu daughter has Tuberous Sclerosis which causes her to have numerous brain lesions that cause her seizures, her Misophonia, and severe anxiety. She could have surgery on the temporal lobe lesion if it was causing debilitating seizures, but not for her Misophonia....but I am going to talk with her neurologist next time about pushing for more research into this problem. Might have to go to a Neuro audiologist??? Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/misoTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Friday, November 25, 2011, 1:02 PM I believe that cochlear hypersensitivity (audiosensitivity)in babies can lead to a cascade of severe psychological disorders, and in particular is sufficient to induce all the symptoms of infantile autism. Hence discussion of various higher brain mechanisms that malfunction in misophonia is irrelevant to the theory that a peripheral auditory disorder is essential to its development. What will easily disprove this theory is a series of misophonics whose cochlear function is beyond reproach. L has what I think is audiosensitivity, which is always, as far as I can establish, of cohlear origin. Ignoring that for the time being, can he be sure he has had pristine ears, including the following, now and in the past:1. No history of ear disease or motion sickness.2. Normal pure tone audiograms.3. No dizziness, vertigo, wooziness, imbalance, agoraphobia.4. No tinnitus, musical hallucinations, diplacusis.5. No sensation of pressure or blockage in ears/head.6. No symptoms of Meniere Spectrum Disorder.7. No overreaction to common drugs.*********************************************************************> >> > C,> > > > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > From: C <venojim@>> > To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >> > Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> > Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > >  > > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation â€" there is a chance the > > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > > > From: mommyamarette <Amarette83@>> > To: Soundsensitivity > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> > Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > >  > > Dr. -> > > > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > > > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > > > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > > has hearing issues.> > > > Regards,> > Amarette> > > > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > > >does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > > >types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > > >experience!> > > > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > > >> > >> >> > > >  > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Interesting—that would be a good test to do. From: Soundsensitivity [mailto:Soundsensitivity ] On Behalf Of WardSent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:21 PMTo: Soundsensitivity Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso My daughter's Misophonia is directly related to neurological sensitivity...she has seizures that originate in the temporal lobe....and her rage episodes have even been recorded as " seizure " activity on a 24 hr. video monitored EEG. We should get someone to do a study of Misophonia sufferers and do video monitored EEG's of study participants and see how many have a neurological response to their trigger sounds. But, it has to be done in a way that the trigger sounds happen spontaneously when the person is expecting it. Because if the person, is expecting the sound then the response if muted. It has to be unanticipated in order to get a true response to the trigger sound that could then be documented on the EEG. Just an idea.Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/misoTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Friday, November 25, 2011, 1:02 PM I believe that cochlear hypersensitivity (audiosensitivity)in babies can lead to a cascade of severe psychological disorders, and in particular is sufficient to induce all the symptoms of infantile autism. Hence discussion of various higher brain mechanisms that malfunction in misophonia is irrelevant to the theory that a peripheral auditory disorder is essential to its development. What will easily disprove this theory is a series of misophonics whose cochlear function is beyond reproach. L has what I think is audiosensitivity, which is always, as far as I can establish, of cohlear origin. Ignoring that for the time being, can he be sure he has had pristine ears, including the following, now and in the past:1. No history of ear disease or motion sickness.2. Normal pure tone audiograms.3. No dizziness, vertigo, wooziness, imbalance, agoraphobia.4. No tinnitus, musical hallucinations, diplacusis.5. No sensation of pressure or blockage in ears/head.6. No symptoms of Meniere Spectrum Disorder.7. No overreaction to common drugs.*********************************************************************> >> > C,> > > > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > From: C <venojim@>> > To: " Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >> > Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> > Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > >  > > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation †" there is a chance the > > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > > > From: mommyamarette <Amarette83@>> > To: Soundsensitivity > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> > Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > >  > > Dr. -> > > > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > > > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > > > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > > has hearing issues.> > > > Regards,> > Amarette> > > > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > > >does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > > >types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > > >experience!> > > > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > > >> > >> >> > > >  > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Interesting—that would be a good test to do. From: Soundsensitivity [mailto:Soundsensitivity ] On Behalf Of WardSent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:21 PMTo: Soundsensitivity Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso My daughter's Misophonia is directly related to neurological sensitivity...she has seizures that originate in the temporal lobe....and her rage episodes have even been recorded as " seizure " activity on a 24 hr. video monitored EEG. We should get someone to do a study of Misophonia sufferers and do video monitored EEG's of study participants and see how many have a neurological response to their trigger sounds. But, it has to be done in a way that the trigger sounds happen spontaneously when the person is expecting it. Because if the person, is expecting the sound then the response if muted. It has to be unanticipated in order to get a true response to the trigger sound that could then be documented on the EEG. Just an idea.Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/misoTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Friday, November 25, 2011, 1:02 PM I believe that cochlear hypersensitivity (audiosensitivity)in babies can lead to a cascade of severe psychological disorders, and in particular is sufficient to induce all the symptoms of infantile autism. Hence discussion of various higher brain mechanisms that malfunction in misophonia is irrelevant to the theory that a peripheral auditory disorder is essential to its development. What will easily disprove this theory is a series of misophonics whose cochlear function is beyond reproach. L has what I think is audiosensitivity, which is always, as far as I can establish, of cohlear origin. Ignoring that for the time being, can he be sure he has had pristine ears, including the following, now and in the past:1. No history of ear disease or motion sickness.2. Normal pure tone audiograms.3. No dizziness, vertigo, wooziness, imbalance, agoraphobia.4. No tinnitus, musical hallucinations, diplacusis.5. No sensation of pressure or blockage in ears/head.6. No symptoms of Meniere Spectrum Disorder.7. No overreaction to common drugs.*********************************************************************> >> > C,> > > > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > From: C <venojim@>> > To: " Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >> > Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> > Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > >  > > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation †" there is a chance the > > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > > > From: mommyamarette <Amarette83@>> > To: Soundsensitivity > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> > Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > >  > > Dr. -> > > > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > > > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > > > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > > has hearing issues.> > > > Regards,> > Amarette> > > > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > > >does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > > >types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > > >experience!> > > > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > > >> > >> >> > > >  > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 My son is scheduled for an EEG this week to rule out absence seizures. I wonder if they'd be open to having someone write with a pencil (his trigger) during it and see what happens. I'm sure it will be a tech running it and they probably can't divert from routine. Ginger Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®Sender: Soundsensitivity Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 16:46:12 -0500To: <Soundsensitivity >ReplyTo: Soundsensitivity Subject: RE: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso Interesting—that would be a good test to do. From: Soundsensitivity [mailto:Soundsensitivity ] On Behalf Of WardSent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:21 PMTo: Soundsensitivity Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso My daughter's Misophonia is directly related to neurological sensitivity...she has seizures that originate in the temporal lobe....and her rage episodes have even been recorded as " seizure " activity on a 24 hr. video monitored EEG. We should get someone to do a study of Misophonia sufferers and do video monitored EEG's of study participants and see how many have a neurological response to their trigger sounds. But, it has to be done in a way that the trigger sounds happen spontaneously when the person is expecting it. Because if the person, is expecting the sound then the response if muted. It has to be unanticipated in order to get a true response to the trigger sound that could then be documented on the EEG. Just an idea.Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/misoTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Friday, November 25, 2011, 1:02 PM I believe that cochlear hypersensitivity (audiosensitivity)in babies can lead to a cascade of severe psychological disorders, and in particular is sufficient to induce all the symptoms of infantile autism. Hence discussion of various higher brain mechanisms that malfunction in misophonia is irrelevant to the theory that a peripheral auditory disorder is essential to its development. What will easily disprove this theory is a series of misophonics whose cochlear function is beyond reproach. L has what I think is audiosensitivity, which is always, as far as I can establish, of cohlear origin. Ignoring that for the time being, can he be sure he has had pristine ears, including the following, now and in the past:1. No history of ear disease or motion sickness.2. Normal pure tone audiograms.3. No dizziness, vertigo, wooziness, imbalance, agoraphobia.4. No tinnitus, musical hallucinations, diplacusis.5. No sensation of pressure or blockage in ears/head.6. No symptoms of Meniere Spectrum Disorder.7. No overreaction to common drugs.*********************************************************************> >> > C,> > > > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > From: C <venojim@>> > To: " Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >> > Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> > Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > >  > > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation †" there is a chance the > > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > > > From: mommyamarette <Amarette83@>> > To: Soundsensitivity > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> > Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > >  > > Dr. -> > > > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > > > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > > > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > > has hearing issues.> > > > Regards,> > Amarette> > > > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > > >does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > > >types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > > >experience!> > > > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > > >> > >> >> > > >  > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 My son is scheduled for an EEG this week to rule out absence seizures. I wonder if they'd be open to having someone write with a pencil (his trigger) during it and see what happens. I'm sure it will be a tech running it and they probably can't divert from routine. Ginger Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®Sender: Soundsensitivity Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 16:46:12 -0500To: <Soundsensitivity >ReplyTo: Soundsensitivity Subject: RE: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso Interesting—that would be a good test to do. From: Soundsensitivity [mailto:Soundsensitivity ] On Behalf Of WardSent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:21 PMTo: Soundsensitivity Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso My daughter's Misophonia is directly related to neurological sensitivity...she has seizures that originate in the temporal lobe....and her rage episodes have even been recorded as " seizure " activity on a 24 hr. video monitored EEG. We should get someone to do a study of Misophonia sufferers and do video monitored EEG's of study participants and see how many have a neurological response to their trigger sounds. But, it has to be done in a way that the trigger sounds happen spontaneously when the person is expecting it. Because if the person, is expecting the sound then the response if muted. It has to be unanticipated in order to get a true response to the trigger sound that could then be documented on the EEG. Just an idea.Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/misoTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Friday, November 25, 2011, 1:02 PM I believe that cochlear hypersensitivity (audiosensitivity)in babies can lead to a cascade of severe psychological disorders, and in particular is sufficient to induce all the symptoms of infantile autism. Hence discussion of various higher brain mechanisms that malfunction in misophonia is irrelevant to the theory that a peripheral auditory disorder is essential to its development. What will easily disprove this theory is a series of misophonics whose cochlear function is beyond reproach. L has what I think is audiosensitivity, which is always, as far as I can establish, of cohlear origin. Ignoring that for the time being, can he be sure he has had pristine ears, including the following, now and in the past:1. No history of ear disease or motion sickness.2. Normal pure tone audiograms.3. No dizziness, vertigo, wooziness, imbalance, agoraphobia.4. No tinnitus, musical hallucinations, diplacusis.5. No sensation of pressure or blockage in ears/head.6. No symptoms of Meniere Spectrum Disorder.7. No overreaction to common drugs.*********************************************************************> >> > C,> > > > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > From: C <venojim@>> > To: " Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >> > Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> > Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > >  > > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation †" there is a chance the > > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > > > From: mommyamarette <Amarette83@>> > To: Soundsensitivity > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> > Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > >  > > Dr. -> > > > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > > > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > > > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > > has hearing issues.> > > > Regards,> > Amarette> > > > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > > >does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > > >types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > > >experience!> > > > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > > >> > >> >> > > >  > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 In my opinion you have to try and trigger a response during the EEG in order to see if there is any neurological activity measured during the episode.Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/misoTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Friday, November 25, 2011, 1:02 PM I believe that cochlear hypersensitivity (audiosensitivity)in babies can lead to a cascade of severe psychological disorders, and in particular is sufficient to induce all the symptoms of infantile autism. Hence discussion of various higher brain mechanisms that malfunction in misophonia is irrelevant to the theory that a peripheral auditory disorder is essential to its development. What will easily disprove this theory is a series of misophonics whose cochlear function is beyond reproach. L has what I think is audiosensitivity, which is always, as far as I can establish, of cohlear origin. Ignoring that for the time being, can he be sure he has had pristine ears, including the following, now and in the past:1. No history of ear disease or motion sickness.2. Normal pure tone audiograms.3. No dizziness, vertigo, wooziness, imbalance, agoraphobia.4. No tinnitus, musical hallucinations, diplacusis.5. No sensation of pressure or blockage in ears/head.6. No symptoms of Meniere Spectrum Disorder.7. No overreaction to common drugs.*********************************************************************> >> > C,> > > > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > From: C <venojim@>> > To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >> > Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> > Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > >  > > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation â€" there is a chance the > > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > > > From: mommyamarette <Amarette83@>> > To: Soundsensitivity > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> > Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > >  > > Dr. -> > > > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > > > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > > > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > > has hearing issues.> > > > Regards,> > Amarette> > > > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > > >does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > > >types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > > >experience!> > > > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > > >> > >> >> > > >  > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 That would be great to do!!! Hope u can make it happen and let us know. HeidiSent from my iPhone In my opinion you have to try and trigger a response during the EEG in order to see if there is any neurological activity measured during the episode.Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/misoTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Friday, November 25, 2011, 1:02 PM I believe that cochlear hypersensitivity (audiosensitivity)in babies can lead to a cascade of severe psychological disorders, and in particular is sufficient to induce all the symptoms of infantile autism. Hence discussion of various higher brain mechanisms that malfunction in misophonia is irrelevant to the theory that a peripheral auditory disorder is essential to its development. What will easily disprove this theory is a series of misophonics whose cochlear function is beyond reproach. L has what I think is audiosensitivity, which is always, as far as I can establish, of cohlear origin. Ignoring that for the time being, can he be sure he has had pristine ears, including the following, now and in the past:1. No history of ear disease or motion sickness.2. Normal pure tone audiograms.3. No dizziness, vertigo, wooziness, imbalance, agoraphobia.4. No tinnitus, musical hallucinations, diplacusis.5. No sensation of pressure or blockage in ears/head.6. No symptoms of Meniere Spectrum Disorder.7. No overreaction to common drugs.*********************************************************************> >> > C,> > > > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > From: C <venojim@>> > To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >> > Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> > Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > >  > > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation â€" there is a chance the > > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > > > From: mommyamarette <Amarette83@>> > To: Soundsensitivity > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> > Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > >  > > Dr. -> > > > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > > > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > > > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > > has hearing issues.> > > > Regards,> > Amarette> > > > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > > >does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > > >types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > > >experience!> > > > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > > >> > >> >> > > >  > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 That would be great to do!!! Hope u can make it happen and let us know. HeidiSent from my iPhone In my opinion you have to try and trigger a response during the EEG in order to see if there is any neurological activity measured during the episode.Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/misoTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Friday, November 25, 2011, 1:02 PM I believe that cochlear hypersensitivity (audiosensitivity)in babies can lead to a cascade of severe psychological disorders, and in particular is sufficient to induce all the symptoms of infantile autism. Hence discussion of various higher brain mechanisms that malfunction in misophonia is irrelevant to the theory that a peripheral auditory disorder is essential to its development. What will easily disprove this theory is a series of misophonics whose cochlear function is beyond reproach. L has what I think is audiosensitivity, which is always, as far as I can establish, of cohlear origin. Ignoring that for the time being, can he be sure he has had pristine ears, including the following, now and in the past:1. No history of ear disease or motion sickness.2. Normal pure tone audiograms.3. No dizziness, vertigo, wooziness, imbalance, agoraphobia.4. No tinnitus, musical hallucinations, diplacusis.5. No sensation of pressure or blockage in ears/head.6. No symptoms of Meniere Spectrum Disorder.7. No overreaction to common drugs.*********************************************************************> >> > C,> > > > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > From: C <venojim@>> > To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >> > Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> > Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > >  > > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation â€" there is a chance the > > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > > > From: mommyamarette <Amarette83@>> > To: Soundsensitivity > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> > Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > >  > > Dr. -> > > > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > > > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > > > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > > has hearing issues.> > > > Regards,> > Amarette> > > > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > > >does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > > >types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > > >experience!> > > > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > > >> > >> >> > > >  > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 That would be great to do!!! Hope u can make it happen and let us know. HeidiSent from my iPhone In my opinion you have to try and trigger a response during the EEG in order to see if there is any neurological activity measured during the episode.Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/misoTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Friday, November 25, 2011, 1:02 PM I believe that cochlear hypersensitivity (audiosensitivity)in babies can lead to a cascade of severe psychological disorders, and in particular is sufficient to induce all the symptoms of infantile autism. Hence discussion of various higher brain mechanisms that malfunction in misophonia is irrelevant to the theory that a peripheral auditory disorder is essential to its development. What will easily disprove this theory is a series of misophonics whose cochlear function is beyond reproach. L has what I think is audiosensitivity, which is always, as far as I can establish, of cohlear origin. Ignoring that for the time being, can he be sure he has had pristine ears, including the following, now and in the past:1. No history of ear disease or motion sickness.2. Normal pure tone audiograms.3. No dizziness, vertigo, wooziness, imbalance, agoraphobia.4. No tinnitus, musical hallucinations, diplacusis.5. No sensation of pressure or blockage in ears/head.6. No symptoms of Meniere Spectrum Disorder.7. No overreaction to common drugs.*********************************************************************> >> > C,> > > > Is it possible to have 4S and also have other sounds that can be muddled? Very > > acute hearing as well as muddled hearing? > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > From: C <venojim@>> > To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >> > Sent: Thu, November 24, 2011 8:19:58 AM> > Subject: Re: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > >  > > As a hearing professional and someone who has suffered from 4S for 45 years I > > can assure you Otoscerlosis  ( affects the Stapes ) and ear wax have nothing to > > do with 4S. Otoscerlosis is usually Genetic and affects only one ear most of > > the time.   Depending on the advice of your ENT ( I would get several opinions ) > > an operation will usually repair the stapes and your hearing in the affected ear > > will be close to the non affected ear after a successful operation. > > > > Things to consider - If it will not affect you health or if the Otoscerlosisis > > is not getting worse,  I would opt out of an operation â€" there is a chance the > > operation will fail and cause a worse hearing loss. A hearing aid would work > > very well should you desire to hear better, you can take it out when you > > don’t.  Also, I believe the repair of the Stapes usually lasts for 5-9 years on > > average then another operation may be needed.  > > > > > > From: mommyamarette <Amarette83@>> > To: Soundsensitivity > > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 3:20 AM> > Subject: Re: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > >  > > Dr. -> > > > I thought I needed to respond to this particular thread because I 1) Have a > > pretty bad case of Misophonia (at least it seems bad to me and those who I have > > relations with) and 2) I have hearing loss.> > > > My particular type of hearing loss is from a condition called Otosclerosis > > (sp?). One of the three bones in my ear is fused in place and does not move like > > it should. This has gone on since I was a child (probably from birth, but not > > confirmed... I did have excess earwax as a kid). My hearing is worse in my left > > ear and my right ear approaches normal levels of hearing. When talking on the > > phone, I have to hold it to my right ear. I don't have a hearing aid, and I can > > generally hold a normal conversation without any problem, but my audiologist > > said that whenever I wanted to do surgery for it, all I have to do is say the > > word. (On a side note, he does not have a working knowledge of how to help me > > with the Misophonia. I would love to know if anyone has contacts in the St. > > Louis, MO area!) I do depend on this hearing impediment when dealing with my > > Misophonia. Depending on the trigger and the volume of the actual sound, > > sometimes I only need to cover my right ear to reduce my ability to hear it. > > > > > > Currently, I am 28 and pregnant with my second child. Although I haven't noticed > > an increase in my hearing loss, my ears do ring more often than normal.> > > > I figured you would be interested to find a case of Misophonia where the person > > has hearing issues.> > > > Regards,> > Amarette> > > > > > From: M <Oregon7@>> > > > To: Soundsensitivity > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:50 AM> > > > Subject: Hearnig Loss and 4S/miso> > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > One little item I could contribute here is the fact that I have never yet > > >evaluated someone with 4S/Miso who had significant hearing loss.> > > > > > > > The vast majority of sufferers have perfect hearing if not better than > > >average hearing. One child recently had full -10 scores across the auditory test > > >tones....that was kind of amazing, really, like a bionic ear and I do think this > > >does contribute to the misery a bit.> > > > > > > > IT would be fantastic if I could do a 30 year study starting with initial > > >auditory tests and using the MRQ (The Misophonia Reaction Questionnaire) along > > >with a couple other evaluative tools, like Beck Test for Anxiety, etc. and then > > >see, if over the decades, as the subjects aged and lost decibels of hearing, IF > > >their 4S/Miso scores would improve.> > > > > > > > I suspect they do.> > > > > > > > Expose yourself to sound, people, listen to music, go to concerts, learn to > > >play in a band or quartet, dance the flamenco, whatever it takes to expose your > > >system to plenty of stimulation.> > > > > > > > Earplugs are not a good solution, they will simply cause your poor ol' brain > > >to turn up its internal volume, trying to catch the noise and sounds, which are > > >its nourishment, if you can see this clearly.> > > > > > > > When you deprive the auditory system of 'food' (sound), it starves for this > > >and becomes even more acutely anxious in seeking it, and becomes ravenous for > > >sound, and will find the tiniest crumb or speck and devour it!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > > > Seriously, that is what happens when you put in those ear plugs.> > > > > > > > Feed it, stuff it, make every day a Thanksgiving of Sound for your auditory > > >system, indulge it, over eat it, consume and explore the vast realms of new > > >types of ear-food for your brain!> > > > > > > > Do not ignore it. You can see that perhaps 4S/Miso can become a kind of > > >anorexia for the ears!> > > > > > > > So go out and do this. Set up every space in your home as an auditory > > >experience!> > > > > > > > A delightful Feast O Noise (A Dr. term...)> > > > > > > > Dr. Marsha , Audiologit, Portland, Oregon> > > >> > >> >> > > >  > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.