Guest guest Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 That's what I've been led to believe also. Preservatives guard against bacteria, yeast and fungus. None of which supposedly grow in oil. In other words, a water free product should not need a typical preservative. i could be totally wrong but that's what I've read. However oils can go rancid over time depending on the oil. Some go rancid very quickly depending on storage and type of oil. I use Rosemary extract and vitamin E to protect my oil only stuff from going rancid. Mark > > no water, no preservative. > Sue in Sundridge > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.2/692 - Release Date: 2/18/2007 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Thank you to all who replied, Halina thank you for the great info that you posted, that's the kind of start that I needed, along with the link to the company who makes perservatives. It can be overwhelming at the beginning, the leads into the info have helped. I wish there was a class or two or three to take for this kind of thing, I'd take them all, lol. Angie " To love and be loved is to feel the sun from both sides " --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Even though it is always assumed that bacteria/fungus do not grow in oil and it make sense to assume that they don't, believe me, they do. As a microbiologist who does testing for cosmetics makers, I have more than once tested oil based products that have bacteria/fungus in them and have heard from more than one supplier about mold problems in oils. I can't explain it, but it happens. Its always good to get your products tested. Sagescript Institute http://www.sagescript.com Microbiology Assays, Botanicals, Distillates > That's what I've been led to believe also. Preservatives guard against > bacteria, yeast and fungus. None of which supposedly grow in oil. In > other words, a water free product should not need a typical > preservative. i could be totally wrong but that's what I've read. > > However oils can go rancid over time depending on the oil. Some go > rancid very quickly depending on storage and type of oil. I use > Rosemary extract and vitamin E to protect my oil only stuff from going > rancid. > > Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 My Pleasure Angie. Am happy that it was usefull to you. Blessings and (((HUGS))) Halina in Australia. " Do what you can, for who you can, with what you have, and where you are. " www.halinasheaven.com Re: Re: preservative in balms Thank you to all who replied, Halina thank you for the great info that you posted, that's the kind of start that I needed, along with the link to the company who makes perservatives. It can be overwhelming at the beginning, the leads into the info have helped. I wish there was a class or two or three to take for this kind of thing, I'd take them all, lol. Angie " To love and be loved is to feel the sun from both sides " --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 Hi - I have no doubt you find bacteria and fungus in the anhydrous products you test. I have no idea how the testing is done but there are ways for water to be introduced into a product that will breed unwanted organisms. My question would be, would a preservation system would prevent this? As Pat pointed out a while ago, preservatives prevent organisms from growing in a product but they don't kill organisms already present. If that is true, even if water is accidently introduced to an anhydrous product - through packaging, humidity or consumer use, even using something like liquaPar would not stop the growth of the organisms in the water because without emulsification, the water will not be a " part " of the product - just sit somewhere along side of it. Since the preservatives are not IN the water, they can't prevent growth. Or maybe it's possible that the small amounts of preservatives can penetrate the oil molecule walls and seep into the water? I don't know. I would guess the reason you find bateria and fungus in anhydrous solutions is because of improper manufacturing/packaging conditions. Mark > " " wrote: > > Even though it is always assumed that bacteria/fungus do not grow in > oil and it make sense to assume that they don't, believe me, they do. > As a microbiologist who does testing for cosmetics makers, I have > more than once tested oil based products that have bacteria/fungus in > them and have heard from more than one supplier about mold problems > in oils. I can't explain it, but it happens. Its always good to get > your products tested. > > > Sagescript Institute > http://www.sagescript.com > Microbiology Assays, Botanicals, Distillates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2007 Report Share Posted February 25, 2007 Mark, preservatives absolutely do kill organisms present in a cosmetic. That is the basis for the challenge test - the preservative has to be able to kill any bacteria introduced into the product. As far as picking the proper preservative, I am not an expert there, but there are preservatives that are useful in both the aqueaous and anhydrous phases. I think Optiphen is one. Also, I agree, that many times the bacteria/fungus is there due to improper packaging/handling, but oftentimes it is introduced by the user. We always have to assume that the user will 'abuse' the product to a certain extent and we have to look for ways of preventing it. For instance, one time at a craft fair I saw someone selling jars of lip balm - these were rather large 2-3 ounce containers. One of her selling points was that it was enough to last a year. I don't think that is a good idea to have something that you stick your fingers into everyday that you would keep for a year. You are sure to be contaminating it over and over. Sagescript Institute http://www.sagescript.com Microbiology, Distillates, Botanicals > Hi - > I have no doubt you find bacteria and fungus in the anhydrous products > you test. I have no idea how the testing is done but there are ways > for water to be introduced into a product that will breed unwanted > organisms. My question would be, would a preservation system would > prevent this? > > As Pat pointed out a while ago, preservatives prevent organisms from > growing in a product but they don't kill organisms already present. > If that is true, even if water is accidently introduced to an > anhydrous product - through packaging, humidity or consumer use, even > using something like liquaPar would not stop the growth of the > organisms in the water because without emulsification, the water will > not be a " part " of the product - just sit somewhere along side of it. > Since the preservatives are not IN the water, they can't prevent growth. > Or maybe it's possible that the small amounts of preservatives can > penetrate the oil molecule walls and seep into the water? I don't know. > > I would guess the reason you find bateria and fungus in anhydrous > solutions is because of improper manufacturing/packaging conditions. > > Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 At 08:13 AM 2/26/2007, you wrote: >Hi Mark & a question for you. If you were to use essential oils in >your product, depending on which oils, wouldn’t they actually kill any >bacteria and fungus? Maybe not your only preservative, but if you could >tweak your formula to include enough of essential oils, I would think they >would kill the bacteria. The problem with this is that the most powerful antibacterial essential oils are usually skin irritants and/or sensitizers. It would require using high proportions of the essential oils than are appropriate for leave on products. I think that the eo's can HELP preserve a product, but counting on them as your only preservative might be risky. Possible in balms with no liquid content, but there's still the chance of contamination. Perhaps in a product that was packaged in a treatment pump or some such that prevents 'dirty fingers' ???? Over 10 years online supplying Aromatherapy and Healthcare Professionals Essential Oils, Hydrosols, Accessories, Hard to find Books and Videos <http://www.naturesgift.com> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 Ann, Theoretically, you could use essential oils as preservatives as many of them are known to have antimicrobial properties. However, there are many problems in doing so such as amounts that may cause skin irritation or sensitivity as well as aromas that are not as pleasant as one would want or textures that are desirable. So although it is an idea that is worth working on, it is not easy or cut and dry. cindy jones Sagescript Institute http://www.sagescript.com Microbiology, Distillates, Botanicals > > Hi Mark & – a question for you. If you were to use essential oils in > your product, depending on which oils, wouldn't they actually kill any > bacteria and fungus? Maybe not your only preservative, but if you could > tweak your formula to include enough of essential oils, I would think they > would kill the bacteria. > > What do you think? > Ann > annrn@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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