Guest guest Posted May 28, 2010 Report Share Posted May 28, 2010 Dear Tamara and all,I think it's right that antibiotics are not the ultimate answer. I've been diagnosed after 10 months of getting sick. Spent my last 2 months onabx, I feel little better but I don't think they are working at all towardshealing me other than suppressing my symptoms...It's still early to say I know, however I'm getting on the alternative routeright away as I feel I have more chance of improvement. But this is myLyme brain with multiple co-infections talking now. I believe certain abx would work from time to time to finish some of the infections when they are weakened eitherwith rifing, herbal treatments, mms etc. Therefore I'm considering usingthem when I see the light at the end of tunnel. anybody disagree?pajo...To: Lyme_and_Rife Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 1:36:11 PMSubject: Ot: antibiotics I don't want to be negative but I think its important to remember that most of us (who have had lyme for a while before diagnosed) don't have long term improvements from abx. I did them for over two years and felt better while on them and then as soon as I went off everything returned. I think thats why the rife and alternatives are so attractive to us. I think everyone should give them a shot and hope they are one of the lucky ones but for most of us our long term condition deteriorates with them. Tamara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2010 Report Share Posted May 28, 2010 Hi Pajo, I gave the antibiotics two and 1/2 years and I think I came out the other end sicker than I was initially. My symptoms were suppressed after about a year of torture and then the yeast started to take over. I also feel that the abx drove the disease further into my brain and body in gerneral. I did not have any long term benefits but I do know of people who have been cured with abx such as Jim's wife. I think its a gamble. No matter what you decide it takes a long time to get well. You will change your protocols over and over depending on whats working for you. I just stopped all of my antimicrobials and its really scary for me. I just need let all the cysts open so I can fight them. I am no longer struggling with pain but I still struggle with fatigue that can get debilitating. I am still grateful with all my improvement. This is a great place to learn and I am still learning over and over. Tamara > > Dear Tamara and all, > > I think it's right that antibiotics are not the ultimate answer. I've been > diagnosed after 10 months of getting sick. Spent my last 2 months on > abx, I feel little better but I don't think they are working at all towards > healing me other than suppressing my symptoms... > > It's still early to say I know, however I'm getting on the alternative route > right away as I feel I have more chance of improvement. But this is my > Lyme brain with multiple co-infections talking now. > > I believe certain abx would work from > time to time to finish some of the infections when they are weakened either > with rifing, herbal treatments, mms etc. Therefore I'm considering using > them when I see the light at the end of tunnel. > > anybody disagree? > > pajo... > > > > ________________________________ > > To: Lyme_and_Rife > Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 1:36:11 PM > Subject: Ot: antibiotics > > > I don't want to be negative but I think its important to remember that most of us (who have had lyme for a while before diagnosed) don't have long term improvements from abx. I did them for over two years and felt better while on them and then as soon as I went off everything returned. > > I think thats why the rife and alternatives are so attractive to us. I think everyone should give them a shot and hope they are one of the lucky ones but for most of us our long term condition deteriorates with them. > > Tamara > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2010 Report Share Posted May 28, 2010 hi pajoi agree with tamara, i know so many long term lymies who eventually got very well from several years of antibiotics and lots of herbal supports. i kept thinking the same would be true for me but after 3 1/2 years i was so reactive to the toxins lyme gives off i couldn't take another abx, and herbs, rife, everything had a similar effect. the dr's got sick of me not getting better. i finally did genetic testing and found i couldn't detox, that is another long route. so what works for one person doesn't work for another. those who can detox well, don't have a huge load of co-infections...perhpas abx works better for them. but i don't know!xosusie Hi Pajo, I gave the antibiotics two and 1/2 years and I think I came out the other end sicker than I was initially. My symptoms were suppressed after about a year of torture and then the yeast started to take over. I also feel that the abx drove the disease further into my brain and body in gerneral. I did not have any long term benefits but I do know of people who have been cured with abx such as Jim's wife. I think its a gamble. No matter what you decide it takes a long time to get well. You will change your protocols over and over depending on whats working for you. I just stopped all of my antimicrobials and its really scary for me. I just need let all the cysts open so I can fight them. I am no longer struggling with pain but I still struggle with fatigue that can get debilitating. I am still grateful with all my improvement. This is a great place to learn and I am still learning over and over. Tamara > > Dear Tamara and all, > > I think it's right that antibiotics are not the ultimate answer. I've been > diagnosed after 10 months of getting sick. Spent my last 2 months on > abx, I feel little better but I don't think they are working at all towards > healing me other than suppressing my symptoms... > > It's still early to say I know, however I'm getting on the alternative route > right away as I feel I have more chance of improvement. But this is my > Lyme brain with multiple co-infections talking now. > > I believe certain abx would work from > time to time to finish some of the infections when they are weakened either > with rifing, herbal treatments, mms etc. Therefore I'm considering using > them when I see the light at the end of tunnel. > > anybody disagree? > > pajo... > > > > ________________________________ > > To: Lyme_and_Rife > Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 1:36:11 PM > Subject: Ot: antibiotics > > > I don't want to be negative but I think its important to remember that most of us (who have had lyme for a while before diagnosed) don't have long term improvements from abx. I did them for over two years and felt better while on them and then as soon as I went off everything returned. > > I think thats why the rife and alternatives are so attractive to us. I think everyone should give them a shot and hope they are one of the lucky ones but for most of us our long term condition deteriorates with them. > > Tamara > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2010 Report Share Posted May 28, 2010 Hi all,  I have found this conversation so interesting. I am at the point where I will need to make long term treatment commitments and am really having trouble deciding weather or not to use abx. I am on Doxy right now. I did 3 wks, then 1 wk off for Igenex testing, and am now back on. I'm not sure I feel comfortable not being on Abx at this point...but I really do believe in the effectiveness of the Rife machine, I will probably end up doing pulses of abx in conjunction with the Rife. I do not really herx with abx (but I have a history of not herxing and still getting better...my body is very weird). I guess if I get a herx from the Rife I would probably go off abx and use Rife as primary treatment. When you started your treatment how did you decide how to proceed? Thanks,Whitney  hi pajoi agree with tamara, i know so many long term lymies who eventually got very well from several years of antibiotics and lots of herbal supports.  i kept thinking the same would be true for me but after 3 1/2 years i was so reactive to the toxins lyme gives off i couldn't take another abx, and herbs, rife, everything had a similar effect.  the dr's got sick of me not getting better.  i finally did genetic testing and found i couldn't detox, that is another long route.  so what works for one person doesn't work for another.  those who can detox well, don't have a huge load of co-infections...perhpas abx works better for them.  but i don't know! xosusie  Hi Pajo, I gave the antibiotics two and 1/2 years and I think I came out the other end sicker than I was initially. My symptoms were suppressed after about a year of torture and then the yeast started to take over. I also feel that the abx drove the disease further into my brain and body in gerneral. I did not have any long term benefits but I do know of people who have been cured with abx such as Jim's wife. I think its a gamble. No matter what you decide it takes a long time to get well. You will change your protocols over and over depending on whats working for you. I just stopped all of my antimicrobials and its really scary for me. I just need let all the cysts open so I can fight them. I am no longer struggling with pain but I still struggle with fatigue that can get debilitating. I am still grateful with all my improvement. This is a great place to learn and I am still learning over and over. Tamara > > Dear Tamara and all, > > I think it's right that antibiotics are not the ultimate answer. I've been > diagnosed after 10 months of getting sick. Spent my last 2 months on > abx, I feel little better but I don't think they are working at all towards > healing me other than suppressing my symptoms... > > It's still early to say I know, however I'm getting on the alternative route > right away as I feel I have more chance of improvement. But this is my > Lyme brain with multiple co-infections talking now. > > I believe certain abx would work from > time to time to finish some of the infections when they are weakened either > with rifing, herbal treatments, mms etc. Therefore I'm considering using > them when I see the light at the end of tunnel. > > anybody disagree? > > pajo... > > > > ________________________________ > > To: Lyme_and_Rife > Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 1:36:11 PM > Subject: Ot: antibiotics > > > I don't want to be negative but I think its important to remember that most of us (who have had lyme for a while before diagnosed) don't have long term improvements from abx. I did them for over two years and felt better while on them and then as soon as I went off everything returned. > > I think thats why the rife and alternatives are so attractive to us. I think everyone should give them a shot and hope they are one of the lucky ones but for most of us our long term condition deteriorates with them. > > Tamara > -- Whitney Schmucker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2010 Report Share Posted May 28, 2010 Whitney, It really hard for all of us to know how to proceed. You have an advantage that herxing is not a problem for you so clearly you are able to detox properly. Many of us have stayed ill because our bodies are unable to detox properly. I did not make a choice to top the abx. My body chose for me. I spent a couple years on abx and oneday my stomach started burning and it would't go away. I had to stop. I was surprised at how quickly my symptoms returned. I was lucky enough that I found a local doctors office who had an f-scan and emem and I herxed the first time I used it. I was unable to get out of bed for several days with a high fever. This was right when I stopped abx. So obviously the abx wasn't killing what I had going on. Just keeping it in hiding. It is a big decision to buy a rife. I was scared to make a mistake but it was the best decision that I made. Its only one part of the puzzle though. It takes a lot to get well. Tamara > > > > > > Dear Tamara and all, > > > > > > I think it's right that antibiotics are not the ultimate answer. I've > > been > > > diagnosed after 10 months of getting sick. Spent my last 2 months on > > > abx, I feel little better but I don't think they are working at all > > towards > > > healing me other than suppressing my symptoms... > > > > > > It's still early to say I know, however I'm getting on the alternative > > route > > > right away as I feel I have more chance of improvement. But this is my > > > Lyme brain with multiple co-infections talking now. > > > > > > I believe certain abx would work from > > > time to time to finish some of the infections when they are weakened > > either > > > with rifing, herbal treatments, mms etc. Therefore I'm considering using > > > them when I see the light at the end of tunnel. > > > > > > anybody disagree? > > > > > > pajo... > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: tamarashorr <tshorr@> > > > To: Lyme_and_Rife <Lyme_and_Rife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 1:36:11 PM > > > Subject: Ot: antibiotics > > > > > > > > > I don't want to be negative but I think its important to remember that > > most of us (who have had lyme for a while before diagnosed) don't have long > > term improvements from abx. I did them for over two years and felt better > > while on them and then as soon as I went off everything returned. > > > > > > I think thats why the rife and alternatives are so attractive to us. I > > think everyone should give them a shot and hope they are one of the lucky > > ones but for most of us our long term condition deteriorates with them. > > > > > > Tamara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Whitney Schmucker > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2010 Report Share Posted May 28, 2010 Thanks for your thoughts Tamara. I've already ordered my Rife and am just waiting for it. That was an easy decision for me cause I would do anything to help get me better. Now I just have to wait til it gets here. I think it will tell me a lot when I do get it because maybe I DO herx...but the abx just don't kill anything off for me. Has anyone NOT experienced a herx when they first started abx? I would almost prefer to have some reaction so I know what is working and what is not. I guess you said it best, you get scared to make a wrong decision with your treatment because you know how painful it is to keep living sick. Anyways thanks for the insight!Whitney  Whitney, It really hard for all of us to know how to proceed. You have an advantage that herxing is not a problem for you so clearly you are able to detox properly. Many of us have stayed ill because our bodies are unable to detox properly. I did not make a choice to top the abx. My body chose for me. I spent a couple years on abx and oneday my stomach started burning and it would't go away. I had to stop. I was surprised at how quickly my symptoms returned. I was lucky enough that I found a local doctors office who had an f-scan and emem and I herxed the first time I used it. I was unable to get out of bed for several days with a high fever. This was right when I stopped abx. So obviously the abx wasn't killing what I had going on. Just keeping it in hiding. It is a big decision to buy a rife. I was scared to make a mistake but it was the best decision that I made. Its only one part of the puzzle though. It takes a lot to get well. Tamara > > > > > > Dear Tamara and all, > > > > > > I think it's right that antibiotics are not the ultimate answer. I've > > been > > > diagnosed after 10 months of getting sick. Spent my last 2 months on > > > abx, I feel little better but I don't think they are working at all > > towards > > > healing me other than suppressing my symptoms... > > > > > > It's still early to say I know, however I'm getting on the alternative > > route > > > right away as I feel I have more chance of improvement. But this is my > > > Lyme brain with multiple co-infections talking now. > > > > > > I believe certain abx would work from > > > time to time to finish some of the infections when they are weakened > > either > > > with rifing, herbal treatments, mms etc. Therefore I'm considering using > > > them when I see the light at the end of tunnel. > > > > > > anybody disagree? > > > > > > pajo... > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: tamarashorr <tshorr@> > > > To: Lyme_and_Rife <Lyme_and_Rife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 1:36:11 PM > > > Subject: Ot: antibiotics > > > > > > > > > I don't want to be negative but I think its important to remember that > > most of us (who have had lyme for a while before diagnosed) don't have long > > term improvements from abx. I did them for over two years and felt better > > while on them and then as soon as I went off everything returned. > > > > > > I think thats why the rife and alternatives are so attractive to us. I > > think everyone should give them a shot and hope they are one of the lucky > > ones but for most of us our long term condition deteriorates with them. > > > > > > Tamara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Whitney Schmucker > -- Whitney Schmucker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2010 Report Share Posted May 29, 2010 Hi Pajo, Abx can can at times work down bacterial loads, but with Lyme and Babs, they can also encyst the bacteria and this is something that will have to be dealt with at some point... Some have reported feeling better while on abx, others, including myself did not have such a good outcome, so it is like many other things we do, works for some of us, not for others... The one thing you need to be doing is taking some good probiotics to help rebuilt your gut flora, abx for sure does a number on it... Abx kills all the bacteria in the gut, good and bad, so replenishing the good is necessary. If abx is helping you, then you might want to continue on with them for a while... You can also work in some natural protocols such as MMS1 and MMS2, salt/C, Lugol's iodine, these are not affected by abx nor do they affect the abx, just need to take them a few hours apart... My wife was cured of Lyme using only abx, but she is definitely not the norm... Many on our group have used abx only to realize they were not working for them, turned to natural treatments.. So I am not disagreeing with you at all... :-) Take care, Jim > > Dear Tamara and all, > > I think it's right that antibiotics are not the ultimate answer. I've been > diagnosed after 10 months of getting sick. Spent my last 2 months on > abx, I feel little better but I don't think they are working at all towards > healing me other than suppressing my symptoms... > > It's still early to say I know, however I'm getting on the alternative route > right away as I feel I have more chance of improvement. But this is my > Lyme brain with multiple co-infections talking now. > > I believe certain abx would work from > time to time to finish some of the infections when they are weakened either > with rifing, herbal treatments, mms etc. Therefore I'm considering using > them when I see the light at the end of tunnel. > > anybody disagree? > > pajo... > > > > ________________________________ > > To: Lyme_and_Rife > Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 1:36:11 PM > Subject: Ot: antibiotics > > > I don't want to be negative but I think its important to remember that most of us (who have had lyme for a while before diagnosed) don't have long term improvements from abx. I did them for over two years and felt better while on them and then as soon as I went off everything returned. > > I think thats why the rife and alternatives are so attractive to us. I think everyone should give them a shot and hope they are one of the lucky ones but for most of us our long term condition deteriorates with them. > > Tamara > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2010 Report Share Posted May 29, 2010 Hi Whitney,I usually bite my tongue and not say anything against abx, as I don't like to undermine other's confidence in what might very well work for them, but having come so far into recovery with Rife (FScan and ABPA A2) and S & C, I heartily congratulate you on your decision. I think abx are wonderful for acute Lyme, but four years of reading these forums has convinced me that abx provide those with chronic Lyme with a false hiatus of health, often followed by horrible relapse when their bodies can no longer tolerate the ravages of abx and they must stop. 30 years ago, I'd had a long course of abx for mycoplasma and had a year and a half of hell afterward that pretty much guaranteed that I'd never do abx again.From my own experience, i'd say that you're definitely on the right road. Now, while you're waiting, set up a solid detox program: that's the other leg of this stool!Be well,Léna Thanks for your thoughts Tamara. I've already ordered my Rife and am just waiting for it. That was an easy decision for me cause I would do anything to help get me better. Now I just have to wait til it gets here. I think it will tell me a lot when I do get it because maybe I DO herx...but the abx just don't kill anything off for me. Has anyone NOT experienced a herx when they first started abx? I would almost prefer to have some reaction so I know what is working and what is not. I guess you said it best, you get scared to make a wrong decision with your treatment because you know how painful it is to keep living sick. Anyways thanks for the insight!Whitney On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 1:44 PM, tamarashorr <tshorrcomcast (DOT) net> wrote: Whitney, It really hard for all of us to know how to proceed. You have an advantage that herxing is not a problem for you so clearly you are able to detox properly. Many of us have stayed ill because our bodies are unable to detox properly. I did not make a choice to top the abx. My body chose for me. I spent a couple years on abx and oneday my stomach started burning and it would't go away. I had to stop. I was surprised at how quickly my symptoms returned. I was lucky enough that I found a local doctors office who had an f-scan and emem and I herxed the first time I used it. I was unable to get out of bed for several days with a high fever. This was right when I stopped abx. So obviously the abx wasn't killing what I had going on. Just keeping it in hiding. It is a big decision to buy a rife. I was scared to make a mistake but it was the best decision that I made. Its only one part of the puzzle though. It takes a lot to get well. Tamara > > > > > > Dear Tamara and all, > > > > > > I think it's right that antibiotics are not the ultimate answer. I've > > been > > > diagnosed after 10 months of getting sick. Spent my last 2 months on > > > abx, I feel little better but I don't think they are working at all > > towards > > > healing me other than suppressing my symptoms... > > > > > > It's still early to say I know, however I'm getting on the alternative > > route > > > right away as I feel I have more chance of improvement. But this is my > > > Lyme brain with multiple co-infections talking now. > > > > > > I believe certain abx would work from > > > time to time to finish some of the infections when they are weakened > > either > > > with rifing, herbal treatments, mms etc. Therefore I'm considering using > > > them when I see the light at the end of tunnel. > > > > > > anybody disagree? > > > > > > pajo... > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: tamarashorr <tshorr@> > > > To: Lyme_and_Rife <Lyme_and_Rife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 1:36:11 PM > > > Subject: Ot: antibiotics > > > > > > > > > I don't want to be negative but I think its important to remember that > > most of us (who have had lyme for a while before diagnosed) don't have long > > term improvements from abx. I did them for over two years and felt better > > while on them and then as soon as I went off everything returned. > > > > > > I think thats why the rife and alternatives are so attractive to us. I > > think everyone should give them a shot and hope they are one of the lucky > > ones but for most of us our long term condition deteriorates with them. > > > > > > Tamara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Whitney Schmucker > -- Whitney Schmucker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2010 Report Share Posted May 29, 2010 Hi all again,I think what you say is true. Abx don't work for some. I'vebeen on it for almost 2 months now and I don't have herxingat all. Just feeling better. But I know the disease is there...I keep spending my limited resources on abx and instead I couldbuy a rife machine with 4 month worth of abx. It was so good to find out about my disease after a year of strugglewith the health care system in Canada. But now it's even harder to find the righttreatment. All I'm worried is the possibility that I will never recover- whateverthat means. However after I joined this groups I realized that alternative waycan be a better choice. I will have to decide soon to leave abxbut I have to find a substitute first...thanks all for the valuable information...pajo...To: Lyme_and_Rife Sent: Fri, May 28, 2010 8:23:43 PMSubject: Re: Re: Ot: antibiotics Hi Whitney,I usually bite my tongue and not say anything against abx, as I don't like to undermine other's confidence in what might very well work for them, but having come so far into recovery with Rife (FScan and ABPA A2) and S & C, I heartily congratulate you on your decision. I think abx are wonderful for acute Lyme, but four years of reading these forums has convinced me that abx provide those with chronic Lyme with a false hiatus of health, often followed by horrible relapse when their bodies can no longer tolerate the ravages of abx and they must stop. 30 years ago, I'd had a long course of abx for mycoplasma and had a year and a half of hell afterward that pretty much guaranteed that I'd never do abx again.From my own experience, i'd say that you're definitely on the right road. Now, while you're waiting, set up a solid detox program: that's the other leg of this stool!Be well,Léna Thanks for your thoughts Tamara. I've already ordered my Rife and am just waiting for it. That was an easy decision for me cause I would do anything to help get me better. Now I just have to wait til it gets here. I think it will tell me a lot when I do get it because maybe I DO herx...but the abx just don't kill anything off for me. Has anyone NOT experienced a herx when they first started abx? I would almost prefer to have some reaction so I know what is working and what is not. I guess you said it best, you get scared to make a wrong decision with your treatment because you know how painful it is to keep living sick. Anyways thanks for the insight!Whitney On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 1:44 PM, tamarashorr <tshorrcomcast (DOT) net> wrote: Whitney, It really hard for all of us to know how to proceed. You have an advantage that herxing is not a problem for you so clearly you are able to detox properly. Many of us have stayed ill because our bodies are unable to detox properly. I did not make a choice to top the abx. My body chose for me. I spent a couple years on abx and oneday my stomach started burning and it would't go away. I had to stop. I was surprised at how quickly my symptoms returned. I was lucky enough that I found a local doctors office who had an f-scan and emem and I herxed the first time I used it. I was unable to get out of bed for several days with a high fever. This was right when I stopped abx. So obviously the abx wasn't killing what I had going on. Just keeping it in hiding. It is a big decision to buy a rife. I was scared to make a mistake but it was the best decision that I made. Its only one part of the puzzle though. It takes a lot to get well. Tamara > > > > > > Dear Tamara and all, > > > > > > I think it's right that antibiotics are not the ultimate answer. I've > > been > > > diagnosed after 10 months of getting sick. Spent my last 2 months on > > > abx, I feel little better but I don't think they are working at all > > towards > > > healing me other than suppressing my symptoms... > > > > > > It's still early to say I know, however I'm getting on the alternative > > route > > > right away as I feel I have more chance of improvement. But this is my > > > Lyme brain with multiple co-infections talking now. > > > > > > I believe certain abx would work from > > > time to time to finish some of the infections when they are weakened > > either > > > with rifing, herbal treatments, mms etc. Therefore I'm considering using > > > them when I see the light at the end of tunnel. > > > > > > anybody disagree? > > > > > > pajo... > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > From: tamarashorr <tshorr@> > > > To: Lyme_and_Rife@ yahoogroups. com <Lyme_and_Rife%40yahoogroups. com> > > > Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 1:36:11 PM > > > Subject: Ot: antibiotics > > > > > > > > > I don't want to be negative but I think its important to remember that > > most of us (who have had lyme for a while before diagnosed) don't have long > > term improvements from abx. I did them for over two years and felt better > > while on them and then as soon as I went off everything returned. > > > > > > I think thats why the rife and alternatives are so attractive to us. I > > think everyone should give them a shot and hope they are one of the lucky > > ones but for most of us our long term condition deteriorates with them. > > > > > > Tamara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Whitney Schmucker > -- Whitney Schmucker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2010 Report Share Posted May 29, 2010 Hi Pajo,Don't go there! Do not spend a nanosecond of thought on worrying about the 'possibility that I will never recover'. That's a waste of brain cells and a valuable resource. There are so many great protocols, that it's just a matter of time before you sort out the ones that work for you and you begin to get your life back.Lots of us are getting better. We may not yet be completely 'cured' but we are feeling well, living our lives again, and focussing on other things besides Lyme. Life is good.Be well and take heart,Léna Hi all again,I think what you say is true. Abx don't work for some. I'vebeen on it for almost 2 months now and I don't have herxingat all. Just feeling better. But I know the disease is there...I keep spending my limited resources on abx and instead I couldbuy a rife machine with 4 month worth of abx. It was so good to find out about my disease after a year of strugglewith the health care system in Canada. But now it's even harder to find the righttreatment. All I'm worried is the possibility that I will never recover- whateverthat means. However after I joined this groups I realized that alternative waycan be a better choice. I will have to decide soon to leave abxbut I have to find a substitute first...thanks all for the valuable information...pajo...From: Guyot Léna <drumrollstny (DOT) rr.com>To: Lyme_and_Rife Sent: Fri, May 28, 2010 8:23:43 PMSubject: Re: Re: Ot: antibiotics Hi Whitney,I usually bite my tongue and not say anything against abx, as I don't like to undermine other's confidence in what might very well work for them, but having come so far into recovery with Rife (FScan and ABPA A2) and S & C, I heartily congratulate you on your decision. I think abx are wonderful for acute Lyme, but four years of reading these forums has convinced me that abx provide those with chronic Lyme with a false hiatus of health, often followed by horrible relapse when their bodies can no longer tolerate the ravages of abx and they must stop. 30 years ago, I'd had a long course of abx for mycoplasma and had a year and a half of hell afterward that pretty much guaranteed that I'd never do abx again.From my own experience, i'd say that you're definitely on the right road. Now, while you're waiting, set up a solid detox program: that's the other leg of this stool!Be well,Léna Thanks for your thoughts Tamara. I've already ordered my Rife and am just waiting for it. That was an easy decision for me cause I would do anything to help get me better. Now I just have to wait til it gets here. I think it will tell me a lot when I do get it because maybe I DO herx...but the abx just don't kill anything off for me. Has anyone NOT experienced a herx when they first started abx? I would almost prefer to have some reaction so I know what is working and what is not. I guess you said it best, you get scared to make a wrong decision with your treatment because you know how painful it is to keep living sick. Anyways thanks for the insight!Whitney On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 1:44 PM, tamarashorr <tshorrcomcast (DOT) net> wrote: Whitney, It really hard for all of us to know how to proceed. You have an advantage that herxing is not a problem for you so clearly you are able to detox properly. Many of us have stayed ill because our bodies are unable to detox properly. I did not make a choice to top the abx. My body chose for me. I spent a couple years on abx and oneday my stomach started burning and it would't go away. I had to stop. I was surprised at how quickly my symptoms returned. I was lucky enough that I found a local doctors office who had an f-scan and emem and I herxed the first time I used it. I was unable to get out of bed for several days with a high fever. This was right when I stopped abx. So obviously the abx wasn't killing what I had going on. Just keeping it in hiding. It is a big decision to buy a rife. I was scared to make a mistake but it was the best decision that I made. Its only one part of the puzzle though. It takes a lot to get well. Tamara > > > > > > Dear Tamara and all, > > > > > > I think it's right that antibiotics are not the ultimate answer. I've > > been > > > diagnosed after 10 months of getting sick. Spent my last 2 months on > > > abx, I feel little better but I don't think they are working at all > > towards > > > healing me other than suppressing my symptoms... > > > > > > It's still early to say I know, however I'm getting on the alternative > > route > > > right away as I feel I have more chance of improvement. But this is my > > > Lyme brain with multiple co-infections talking now. > > > > > > I believe certain abx would work from > > > time to time to finish some of the infections when they are weakened > > either > > > with rifing, herbal treatments, mms etc. Therefore I'm considering using > > > them when I see the light at the end of tunnel. > > > > > > anybody disagree? > > > > > > pajo... > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > From: tamarashorr <tshorr@> > > > To: Lyme_and_Rife@ yahoogroups. com <Lyme_and_Rife%40yahoogroups. com> > > > Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 1:36:11 PM > > > Subject: Ot: antibiotics > > > > > > > > > I don't want to be negative but I think its important to remember that > > most of us (who have had lyme for a while before diagnosed) don't have long > > term improvements from abx. I did them for over two years and felt better > > while on them and then as soon as I went off everything returned. > > > > > > I think thats why the rife and alternatives are so attractive to us. I > > think everyone should give them a shot and hope they are one of the lucky > > ones but for most of us our long term condition deteriorates with them. > > > > > > Tamara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Whitney Schmucker > -- Whitney Schmucker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2010 Report Share Posted May 29, 2010 Hi Whitney, If you don't think you would feel comfortable not being on abx, perhaps you should stay on them for a while... The last thing you want to do is second guess what your gut feeling is, sometimes it is best to just follow something through and see what happens... When you do decide to try rife, you will have to be off the abx except for cyst buster abx... Using abx while rifing can be counterproductive to the rife treatments as abx typically caused encysting and thus lessens the value of the rife sessions. My first treatment was abx, it was the only thing I knew. After 14 weeks, I knew they were not working and I would have to find a better way to deal with this disease.. I researched some natural protocols and started with salt/C.. About 6 months later I added rife. Then I added Lugol's iodine, then ozoneated water.. I was making some progress, but just not enough... So I brought MMS to my groups and I did very well with MMS1 as did others... I continued with my other protocols as they just made good sense to me.. I am of the belief that all protocols that kill off the pathogens in our body are good protocols to remain on.. There really isn't a single one protocol that stands out for killing off Lyme, several seem to be good.. I believe a mix of protocols is the best approach. I think you start with protocols others are having success with and then stick with them for the long term. The only time I would remove a protocol is if I felt it wasn't working or felt it was causing me harm. Really, if you would feel more comfortable for now remaining on abx, then you should follow your gut on this.. At some point you will know if the abx is working for you or not and you can always change and try something else.. And, there are natural protocols you can also use while doing abx, so you could add them in at any time... We all seem to make some mistakes and will all seem to find things that help us, I guess you could say we do a lot of trial and error before finding what really helps us... Take care, Jim > > > > > > Dear Tamara and all, > > > > > > I think it's right that antibiotics are not the ultimate answer. I've > > been > > > diagnosed after 10 months of getting sick. Spent my last 2 months on > > > abx, I feel little better but I don't think they are working at all > > towards > > > healing me other than suppressing my symptoms... > > > > > > It's still early to say I know, however I'm getting on the alternative > > route > > > right away as I feel I have more chance of improvement. But this is my > > > Lyme brain with multiple co-infections talking now. > > > > > > I believe certain abx would work from > > > time to time to finish some of the infections when they are weakened > > either > > > with rifing, herbal treatments, mms etc. Therefore I'm considering using > > > them when I see the light at the end of tunnel. > > > > > > anybody disagree? > > > > > > pajo... > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: tamarashorr <tshorr@> > > > To: Lyme_and_Rife <Lyme_and_Rife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 1:36:11 PM > > > Subject: Ot: antibiotics > > > > > > > > > I don't want to be negative but I think its important to remember that > > most of us (who have had lyme for a while before diagnosed) don't have long > > term improvements from abx. I did them for over two years and felt better > > while on them and then as soon as I went off everything returned. > > > > > > I think thats why the rife and alternatives are so attractive to us. I > > think everyone should give them a shot and hope they are one of the lucky > > ones but for most of us our long term condition deteriorates with them. > > > > > > Tamara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Whitney Schmucker > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2010 Report Share Posted May 29, 2010 Hi Whitney, You are never committed and you always have options. Do what you need to do.I just wanted to add that I have a friend who didn't herx from abx. and guess what? She doesn't herx from coiling either. Well, rarely. However, she is getting better. I think she is an amazing detoxer. She has eaten a perfect diet for 5 years prior to treating, and she has air cleaners in every room, exercises every day, and probably is genetically blessed. She just keeps coiling. It's been a year and she is probably 35-40% better. No herxes.  Hi all,  I have found this conversation so interesting. I am at the point where I will need to make long term treatment commitments and am really having trouble deciding weather or not to use abx. I am on Doxy right now. I did 3 wks, then 1 wk off for Igenex testing, and am now back on. I'm not sure I feel comfortable not being on Abx at this point...but I really do believe in the effectiveness of the Rife machine, I will probably end up doing pulses of abx in conjunction with the Rife. I do not really herx with abx (but I have a history of not herxing and still getting better...my body is very weird). I guess if I get a herx from the Rife I would probably go off abx and use Rife as primary treatment. When you started your treatment how did you decide how to proceed? Thanks,Whitney  hi pajoi agree with tamara, i know so many long term lymies who eventually got very well from several years of antibiotics and lots of herbal supports.  i kept thinking the same would be true for me but after 3 1/2 years i was so reactive to the toxins lyme gives off i couldn't take another abx, and herbs, rife, everything had a similar effect.  the dr's got sick of me not getting better.  i finally did genetic testing and found i couldn't detox, that is another long route.  so what works for one person doesn't work for another.  those who can detox well, don't have a huge load of co-infections...perhpas abx works better for them.  but i don't know! xosusie  Hi Pajo, I gave the antibiotics two and 1/2 years and I think I came out the other end sicker than I was initially. My symptoms were suppressed after about a year of torture and then the yeast started to take over. I also feel that the abx drove the disease further into my brain and body in gerneral. I did not have any long term benefits but I do know of people who have been cured with abx such as Jim's wife. I think its a gamble. No matter what you decide it takes a long time to get well. You will change your protocols over and over depending on whats working for you. I just stopped all of my antimicrobials and its really scary for me. I just need let all the cysts open so I can fight them. I am no longer struggling with pain but I still struggle with fatigue that can get debilitating. I am still grateful with all my improvement. This is a great place to learn and I am still learning over and over. Tamara > > Dear Tamara and all, > > I think it's right that antibiotics are not the ultimate answer. I've been > diagnosed after 10 months of getting sick. Spent my last 2 months on > abx, I feel little better but I don't think they are working at all towards > healing me other than suppressing my symptoms... > > It's still early to say I know, however I'm getting on the alternative route > right away as I feel I have more chance of improvement. But this is my > Lyme brain with multiple co-infections talking now. > > I believe certain abx would work from > time to time to finish some of the infections when they are weakened either > with rifing, herbal treatments, mms etc. Therefore I'm considering using > them when I see the light at the end of tunnel. > > anybody disagree? > > pajo... > > > > ________________________________ > > To: Lyme_and_Rife > Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 1:36:11 PM > Subject: Ot: antibiotics > > > I don't want to be negative but I think its important to remember that most of us (who have had lyme for a while before diagnosed) don't have long term improvements from abx. I did them for over two years and felt better while on them and then as soon as I went off everything returned. > > I think thats why the rife and alternatives are so attractive to us. I think everyone should give them a shot and hope they are one of the lucky ones but for most of us our long term condition deteriorates with them. > > Tamara > -- Whitney Schmucker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2010 Report Share Posted May 29, 2010 Pajo, It is very important to believe that you will get better. I think that positive energy will help with your healing. I'm sorry if I made you doubt your choices. There are other substitutes for abx that might be less expensive and more effective such as MMS or salt/c. I have never done either but many people on this group have had a good experience with them. I used nutramedix antimicrobials for a long time and they really helped me but they are quite expensive. That said there is no reason to believe that you won't be 100%. Many of the people on the group have struggled with lyme for 10/20 years before they were diagnosed. Time is on your side because you were diagnosed within a year. Unfortunately you have to be patient because it takes a long time to get well. Tamara > >>> > > > >>> > > Dear Tamara and all, > >>> > > > >>> > > I think it's right that antibiotics are not the ultimate answer. I've > >>> > been > >>> > > diagnosed after 10 months of getting sick. Spent my last 2 months on > >>> > > abx, I feel little better but I don't think they are working at all > >>> > towards > >>> > > healing me other than suppressing my symptoms... > >>> > > > >>> > > It's still early to say I know, however I'm getting on the alternative > >>> > route > >>> > > right away as I feel I have more chance of improvement. But this is my > >>> > > Lyme brain with multiple co-infections talking now. > >>> > > > >>> > > I believe certain abx would work from > >>> > > time to time to finish some of the infections when they are weakened > >>> > either > >>> > > with rifing, herbal treatments, mms etc. Therefore I'm considering using > >>> > > them when I see the light at the end of tunnel. > >>> > > > >>> > > anybody disagree? > >>> > > > >>> > > pajo... > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > >>> > > From: tamarashorr <tshorr@> > >> > > > > To: Lyme_and_Rife@ yahoogroups. com <Lyme_and_Rife%40yahoogroups. com> > >> > >>> > > Sent: Thu, May 27, 2010 1:36:11 PM > >>> > > Subject: Ot: antibiotics > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > I don't want to be negative but I think its important to remember that > >>> > most of us (who have had lyme for a while before diagnosed) don't have long > >>> > term improvements from abx. I did them for over two years and felt better > >>> > while on them and then as soon as I went off everything returned. > >>> > > > >>> > > I think thats why the rife and alternatives are so attractive to us. I > >>> > think everyone should give them a shot and hope they are one of the lucky > >>> > ones but for most of us our long term condition deteriorates with them. > >>> > > > >>> > > Tamara > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > -- > >>> Whitney Schmucker > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > >-- > >Whitney Schmucker > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.