Re: symptom list for coinfections?

[Guest guest]

Hi Peggy,I'm not Jim but wanted to share these links with you about the co-infection symptoms. The first is just a simple list. The second goes to Dr. Burrascano's Lyme Disease Treatment Guidelines. In there are 2 good sections on co-infections. It was very helpful to me.http://www.anapsid.org/lyme/symptoms/tbi-symptoms.htmlhttp://publichealthalert.org/pdf/LYMDXRX%202008-October.pdfThe symptoms you are describing could be lyme. Sweats in general could be caused by lyme or a couple of different co-infections. If they are night sweats, usually that is babesia but not always. For me, weakness is caused by the lyme. My profuse sweats were caused by a combination of babesia and lyme.Generally speaking, lyme and co-infection symptoms over lap. So in the beginning, sometimes it is hard to tell what is causing what. But as you kill

each infection and note changes, you'll be able to sort it out.One thing you might want to check with the EMEM is if you herx to any lyme frequencies in addition to 432. Try the frequencies for b. garinii and b. afzelii, 382 and 387.5I have not started treating for mycoplasmas yet other than a one-time hit on 690 for m. fermentans. I've read posts from others in the group saying their mycoplasma symptoms mimicked lyme. So that's another thing to check in to.Hope you start seeing improvement soon. I think you choice to spend the $1000 on a coil is a wise one. IMHO, co-infection testing is more unreliable than lyme testing. Simply because they can only test for a few strains of the co-infections.. If you don't that those exact strains then the tests come back negative.Take care,Kara

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Kara. I looked at the lists and can see that these symptoms could point to either Lyme or babesia. I know someone who's had babesia for years and hasn't been able to get rid of it with all the antibiotic protocols that have been thrown at her. So I'm very glad I've decided not to go that route.

These sweats aren't night sweats. In fact, I'm less likely to have them at night than in the daytime. As for the weakness, it's very strange as it comes on suddenly, and there's a very obvious difference between the way I felt the moment before it hit. It feels as though every ounce of energy just drained away in an instant. But it's not like fatigue, being tired, or being exhausted. I keep describing it as feeling like my legs have turned to jelly. It's weird, and although it seems I've dealt with Lyme most of my adult life, I've never felt this before.

As to trying to figure out whether I'm herxing to any frx besides 432, I feel so bad I honestly don't think I'd know if I were herxing or not. I'm currently rifing for mycloplasma fermentans in addition to Lyme. I'm using about six different frequencies right now, and looking forward to making a quantum leap forward in treatment as soon as I get the coil machine.

Thanks for your help.

Peggy

[Guest guest]

Peggie,

I have sudden weakness as well and for me it was adrenal fatigue. It often sets

in after a long illness.

Tamara

>

> Thanks, Kara. I looked at the lists and can see that these symptoms could

point to either Lyme or babesia. I know someone who's had babesia for years and

hasn't been able to get rid of it with all the antibiotic protocols that have

been thrown at her. So I'm very glad I've decided not to go that route.

>

> These sweats aren't night sweats. In fact, I'm less likely to have them at

night than in the daytime. As for the weakness, it's very strange as it comes

on suddenly, and there's a very obvious difference between the way I felt the

moment before it hit. It feels as though every ounce of energy just drained

away in an instant. But it's not like fatigue, being tired, or being exhausted.

I keep describing it as feeling like my legs have turned to jelly. It's weird,

and although it seems I've dealt with Lyme most of my adult life, I've never

felt this before.

>

> As to trying to figure out whether I'm herxing to any frx besides 432, I feel

so bad I honestly don't think I'd know if I were herxing or not. I'm currently

rifing for mycloplasma fermentans in addition to Lyme. I'm using about six

different frequencies right now, and looking forward to making a quantum leap

forward in treatment as soon as I get the coil machine.

>

> Thanks for your help.

>

> Peggy

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tamara,

I know. But I'm afraid it was treatment for adrenal fatigue that got me into this mess in the first place. I'd had Lyme problems for over 25 years, but I was stable and functioning. Then I was prescribed hydrocortisone for adrenal fatigue. I'd had cortisol testing and was below the range at 3 different times of day and barely inside the range in the fourth time period. I was excited at the prospect of something healing my adrenals so I wouldn't feel so exhausted all the time. Then these symptoms started about six weeks after I started the meds. I didn't realize at first that the drug might be the problem, but the more I took it the worse I got. I finally weaned off, but the damage has been done.

It's right on the prescription leaflet that hydrocortisone can weaken the immune system, but I was assured that my dose was too small for that to happen. I think that was a mistake. Of course, I could be wrong and it could be something else. But I've had lots of tests and many other possibilities have been ruled out. So my doctor thinks it's an infection--Lyme, coinfection, EBV. And if so, I really think it was the hydrocortisone that created the conditions for those infections, which were already present, to flare up.

Live and learn, right? In any case, no more hydrocortisone for me.

Peggy

Re: symptom list for coinfections?

Peggie, I have sudden weakness as well and for me it was adrenal fatigue. It often sets in after a long illness. Tamara

[Guest guest]

Hi Peggy,

The advice I got was to rife for one infection at a time, in order to know what you're herxing from, and not overload the body. This advice is very sound. There was recently a post on this group by someone who was rifing for many infections at once, was making progress, then crashed. That is to be avoided.

Have you seen Doug MacLean's coiling protocol document, which is in this group's file section? In that document, Doug specifically says to change frequencies when one is no longer herxing from a specific frequency, or not making progress using that frequency. That means (to me), stick with that one, until you no longer herx, and it has run its course. That way, you will always know what you're herxing from, and there can be no confusion. You will also clearly see how are you progressing (or not).

I have followed Doug's advice to the letter, including treatment times, etc. To access this document, go to the home page of the group, and select "files" from the left hand column listing. This document is a must read for all coil users.

BTW, I also get extreme fatigue, which comes on suddenly, without warning. This has happened when I've been out, and I could hardly make it back to my car. This is one of the classic Lyme symptoms, I believe.

- Jane

Subject: Re: symptom list for coinfections?To: Lyme_and_Rife Date: Thursday, June 10, 2010, 11:42 AM

Thanks, Kara. I looked at the lists and can see that these symptoms could point to either Lyme or babesia. I know someone who's had babesia for years and hasn't been able to get rid of it with all the antibiotic protocols that have been thrown at her. So I'm very glad I've decided not to go that route.

These sweats aren't night sweats. In fact, I'm less likely to have them at night than in the daytime. As for the weakness, it's very strange as it comes on suddenly, and there's a very obvious difference between the way I felt the moment before it hit. It feels as though every ounce of energy just drained away in an instant. But it's not like fatigue, being tired, or being exhausted. I keep describing it as feeling like my legs have turned to jelly. It's weird, and although it seems I've dealt with Lyme most of my adult life, I've never felt this before.

As to trying to figure out whether I'm herxing to any frx besides 432, I feel so bad I honestly don't think I'd know if I were herxing or not. I'm currently rifing for mycloplasma fermentans in addition to Lyme. I'm using about six different frequencies right now, and looking forward to making a quantum leap forward in treatment as soon as I get the coil machine.

Thanks for your help.

Peggy

[Guest guest]

Hi Jane,

I have an EMEM right now, haven't yet received my coil machine. My husband, who is an electrical engineer, tells me that there is no comparison at all between the frequencies used on an EMEM and those used on a coil machine, that you can't simply take coil frequencies and apply them on an EMEM--it's apples and oranges. He's explained to me in detail why this is true, but I'm doing good at this point to understand "do it this way, don't do it that way."

Even the issue of changing frequencies is way different. On the coil machine, if you set a frequency, it's a pure signal and you can be sure you're getting that frequency and only that frequency. On the EMEM, no matter what frequency you set, you're getting a range of frequencies. For example, if someone says to use 650, then later 650.5, then later 651--that just won't work on an EMEM. If you set it at 650, it's going to cover all those frequencies (and more) whether you want it to or not.

Treatment times for coil versus EMEM are also extremely different. The coil is so much more powerful that you can accomplish in seconds what it takes over an hour to do at the same frequency on an EMEM. I know that people talk about them interchangeably, but I've had it hammered into me at home that they are simply not interchangeable at all. All of which means that I can't use Doug's coil protocol until I get the coil machine. Right now I'm stuck with a weaker signal and longer rifing periods, but it's still miles better than antibiotics.

Peggy

Re: symptom list for coinfections?

Have you seen Doug MacLean's coiling protocol document, which is in this group's file section? In that document, Doug specifically says to change frequencies when one is no longer herxing from a specific frequency, or not making progress using that frequency. That means (to me), stick with that one, until you no longer herx, and it has run its course. That way, you will always know what you're herxing from, and there can be no confusion. You will also clearly see how are you progressing (or not).

I have followed Doug's advice to the letter, including treatment times, etc. To access this document, go to the home page of the group, and select "files" from the left hand column listing. This document is a must read for all coil users.

BTW, I also get extreme fatigue, which comes on suddenly, without warning. This has happened when I've been out, and I could hardly make it back to my car. This is one of the classic Lyme symptoms, I believe.

- Jane

[Guest guest]

Hi Peggy,

I haven't used the EMEM, but what you say is true. I did not imply that you should follow Doug MacLean's protocol for the EMEM. But when you get your coil machine, I would strongly recommend that you follow Doug's advice. If you are purchasing from Stolar (the builder of my machine), his advice is also valuable. But everyone has different infections and bacterial loads. I still cannot contemplate how got well coiling for Lyme for just 15 minutes a week. I need over an hour. But had multiple coinfections to deal with also. We are all different.

The only other rife-type device I have used is the DP100. I used it for one month, before my coil machine was delivered. When I initially used the coil, I realized the power difference between the two machines was significant. That's not to say that the DP100 was not effective. But the coil machine is extremely powerful, so be warned, and go slowly. and Doug both say 30 seconds on a frequency, to start. For some people, that's way too much, and even 5 seconds is alot. Just so you are aware. But, since you've been using the EMEM, you must have been reducing your bacterial load, and you can probably ramp up treatment times on the coil much faster as a result. Good luck!

Best,

Jane

Subject: Re: symptom list for coinfections?To: Lyme_and_Rife Date: Thursday, June 10, 2010, 1:38 PM

Hi Jane,

I have an EMEM right now, haven't yet received my coil machine. My husband, who is an electrical engineer, tells me that there is no comparison at all between the frequencies used on an EMEM and those used on a coil machine, that you can't simply take coil frequencies and apply them on an EMEM--it's apples and oranges. He's explained to me in detail why this is true, but I'm doing good at this point to understand "do it this way, don't do it that way."

Even the issue of changing frequencies is way different. On the coil machine, if you set a frequency, it's a pure signal and you can be sure you're getting that frequency and only that frequency. On the EMEM, no matter what frequency you set, you're getting a range of frequencies. For example, if someone says to use 650, then later 650.5, then later 651--that just won't work on an EMEM. If you set it at 650, it's going to cover all those frequencies (and more) whether you want it to or not.

Treatment times for coil versus EMEM are also extremely different. The coil is so much more powerful that you can accomplish in seconds what it takes over an hour to do at the same frequency on an EMEM. I know that people talk about them interchangeably, but I've had it hammered into me at home that they are simply not interchangeable at all. All of which means that I can't use Doug's coil protocol until I get the coil machine. Right now I'm stuck with a weaker signal and longer rifing periods, but it's still miles better than antibiotics.

Peggy

Re: symptom list for coinfections?

Have you seen Doug MacLean's coiling protocol document, which is in this group's file section? In that document, Doug specifically says to change frequencies when one is no longer herxing from a specific frequency, or not making progress using that frequency. That means (to me), stick with that one, until you no longer herx, and it has run its course. That way, you will always know what you're herxing from, and there can be no confusion. You will also clearly see how are you progressing (or not).

I have followed Doug's advice to the letter, including treatment times, etc. To access this document, go to the home page of the group, and select "files" from the left hand column listing. This document is a must read for all coil users.

BTW, I also get extreme fatigue, which comes on suddenly, without warning. This has happened when I've been out, and I could hardly make it back to my car. This is one of the classic Lyme symptoms, I believe.

- Jane

[Guest guest]

Hi Jane,

Yes, I'm getting my coil machine from Stolar and I've spoken with him. I know I'll have to approach treatment with that machine very differently from what I've been doing with the EMEM. If I used it as long as I use the EMEM, I might get vaporized. :-)

Even on the EMEM, which is relatively weak, I overdid it the first time and started herxing even before my time was up. But I was okay with that because that told me it was doing something. I do know, though, that too much herxing is counterproductive. There's only so much the body can handle at once, after all.

Peggy

Re: symptom list for coinfections?

Hi Peggy,

I haven't used the EMEM, but what you say is true. I did not imply that you should follow Doug MacLean's protocol for the EMEM. But when you get your coil machine, I would strongly recommend that you follow Doug's advice. If you are purchasing from Stolar (the builder of my machine), his advice is also valuable. But everyone has different infections and bacterial loads. I still cannot contemplate how got well coiling for Lyme for just 15 minutes a week. I need over an hour. But had multiple coinfections to deal with also. We are all different.

The only other rife-type device I have used is the DP100. I used it for one month, before my coil machine was delivered. When I initially used the coil, I realized the power difference between the two machines was significant. That's not to say that the DP100 was not effective. But the coil machine is extremely powerful, so be warned, and go slowly. and Doug both say 30 seconds on a frequency, to start. For some people, that's way too much, and even 5 seconds is alot. Just so you are aware. But, since you've been using the EMEM, you must have been reducing your bacterial load, and you can probably ramp up treatment times on the coil much faster as a result. Good luck!

Best,

Jane

[Guest guest]

Hi Peggie,

I'm not the resident expert in endocrine problems, perhaps will chime in.

I am on cortef as well but its just replacing what my body does not make. For a

while I was going into adrenal failure so it was not really and option for me.

I will probably be on a maintenance dose all of my life. I don't think it is

immune suppressent at a replacement dose. I had hoped eventually to wean of

but I do get the extreme weakness if I try. I also got dizziness and blacked

out twice. On the ground. Bam. Home alone both times. I feel so much better

on the Cortef.

I also have the Hashimoto's. It came on with the lyme and although I now have

the lyme and co-infections under control I am stuck with the mess it made of my

endocrine system.

Are you on thyroid meds? I also had a complete thyroid attack when I became

ill. When your thyroid is under attack it bounces between hypo and hyper.

Perhaps this is happening to you and would explain the day sweats. I had this

as well.

I am a strong believer that until you get your endocrine system under control

you really don't get better.

Even at that its a fine balance.

Tamara

>

> Hi Tamara,

>

> I know. But I'm afraid it was treatment for adrenal fatigue that got me into

this mess in the first place. I'd had Lyme problems for over 25 years, but I

was stable and functioning. Then I was prescribed hydrocortisone for adrenal

fatigue. I'd had cortisol testing and was below the range at 3 different times

of day and barely inside the range in the fourth time period. I was excited at

the prospect of something healing my adrenals so I wouldn't feel so exhausted

all the time. Then these symptoms started about six weeks after I started the

meds. I didn't realize at first that the drug might be the problem, but the

more I took it the worse I got. I finally weaned off, but the damage has been

done.

>

> It's right on the prescription leaflet that hydrocortisone can weaken the

immune system, but I was assured that my dose was too small for that to happen.

I think that was a mistake. Of course, I could be wrong and it could be

something else. But I've had lots of tests and many other possibilities have

been ruled out. So my doctor thinks it's an infection--Lyme, coinfection, EBV.

And if so, I really think it was the hydrocortisone that created the conditions

for those infections, which were already present, to flare up.

>

> Live and learn, right? In any case, no more hydrocortisone for me.

>

> Peggy

>

>

> Re: symptom list for coinfections?

>

> Peggie,

>

> I have sudden weakness as well and for me it was adrenal fatigue. It often

sets in after a long illness.

>

> Tamara

>

[Guest guest]

What type of hydrocortisone were you taking? This is

unusual if on a small dose to have such a reaction. What was your dose?

Yes hydrocortisone can weaken the immune system in HIGH doses

over LONG periods of time. Also if it’s a non-bioidentical kind it

can do damage. (Cortef being the best brand name to use.)

What symptoms did you have (haven’t read the whole thread

yet)?

One thing it could be is that your immune system has been shut

off for so long that when you took the hydrocortisone that it woke it up and

started actually fighting the bugs. It could be something like a herx.

Here’s the thing that very few people realize. Your

hormones, primarily cortisol and thyroid, are a MAJOR component of your immune

system. In fact, without them your immune system wouldn’t work at

all. Hormones are messengers that tell your cells what to do.

Without the message, the immune cells don’t know to do anything. We

Lymies typically have multiple infections, and each one depresses the immune

response more and more. This in turn stresses out the adrenals and/or down-regulates

the adrenal and thyroid hormones.

Have you tried nettles? They are supposed to heal the

adrenals. I just got some and am taking my first dose in a minute.

It’s been said that you can feel a difference very quickly. I’m

not sure I will since I’ve already been taking cortisol for a

while. My hope is to heal my adrenals and get off the cortisol, but we’ll

see how that goes!

Please, don’t be afraid of hydrocortisone. In the

proper dosage it can do wonders! I’m living proof! No, it

doesn’t work for everyone, but most people should benefit from it!

From:

Lyme_and_Rife [mailto:Lyme_and_Rife ] On

Behalf Of T Walters

Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 9:17 AM

To: Lyme_and_Rife

Subject: Re: Re: symptom list for coinfections?

Hi

Tamara,

I

know. But I'm afraid it was treatment for adrenal fatigue that got me

into this mess in the first place. I'd had Lyme problems for over 25

years, but I was stable and functioning. Then I was prescribed

hydrocortisone for adrenal fatigue. I'd had cortisol testing and was

below the range at 3 different times of day and barely inside the range in

the fourth time period. I was excited at the prospect of something

healing my adrenals so I wouldn't feel so exhausted all the time. Then

these symptoms started about six weeks after I started the meds. I didn't

realize at first that the drug might be the problem, but the more I took it the

worse I got. I finally weaned off, but the damage has been done.

It's

right on the prescription leaflet that hydrocortisone can weaken the immune

system, but I was assured that my dose was too small for that to happen.

I think that was a mistake. Of course, I could be wrong and it could be

something else. But I've had lots of tests and many other possibilities

have been ruled out. So my doctor thinks it's an infection--Lyme,

coinfection, EBV. And if so, I really think it was the hydrocortisone

that created the conditions for those infections, which were already present,

to flare up.

Live

and learn, right? In any case, no more hydrocortisone for me.

Peggy

-----

Original Message -----

From: tamarashorr

To: Lyme_and_Rife

Sent: Thursday, June 10,

2010 11:59 AM

Subject: Re:

symptom list for coinfections?

Peggie,

I have sudden weakness as well and for me it was adrenal fatigue. It often sets

in after a long illness.

Tamara

No virus

found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2929 - Release Date: 06/09/10

23:35:00

[Guest guest]

Hi Tamara,

I started treatment for thyroid problems in January, at the same time as I started treatment for adrenal problems. I had blood tests once a month and the thyroid was improving. But by the end of March these new symptoms of weakness and sweating began, and nothing helped--not increasing or decreasing thyroid meds, nor increasing or decreasing Cortef. The symptoms persisted no matter what I did. Since I'd never had these symptoms before, it was logical to think the meds might have something to do with them. So I weaned off both, under a doctor's supervision. Still nothing changed.

At this point he thinks it's an infection--Lyme, a coinfection, or EBV (my titers for that are off the charts). So I need to treat for that and am on an antiviral for EBV, and using the EMEM while I wait for the coil machine to arrive, as I have no intention of going back on long-term antibiotics. Been there, done that, got decimated. There's too much going on in my system right now, so it's not the time to go back into the endocrine system. That will have to be dealt with after things calm down--it was too wild a ride while I was in treatment for thyroid and adrenals, with medication requiring constant adjustment. I simply don't have the strength for that right now, and it would only make it harder to understand and deal with whatever is going on.

I, too, was on only a replacement dose of Cortef, and I do understand that it's generally believed it isn't immune-suppressant at a replacement dose. But I never felt better on it at all, and I quickly started feeling considerably worse after quite some time of being stable. So I can only suspect that's what caused the problem. I am extremely sensitive to medication, so the way things affect me won't necessarily apply to anyone else. Everyone on the adrenals group seemed extremely happy with Cortef--except me.

Peggy

Re: symptom list for coinfections?> > Peggie, > > I have sudden weakness as well and for me it was adrenal fatigue. It often sets in after a long illness. > > Tamara>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I was using Cortef, and there's no way I would take it again. I was under close supervision while on it, and I was on the adrenals group moderated by several knowledgeable people. Most people there were totally sold on hydrocortisone. So I know that my reaction is unusual. It was a replacement dose, not a high dose at all, but as I mentioned in another post, I am extremely sensitive to medication and can't take many things that other people take without a second thought. That's probably thanks to my 25+ years with Lyme.

My immune system hadn't been shut off when I started Cortef--I didn't even get a cold last winter, and I could be exposed to people with viruses without catching them. I was doing very well, in fact. Lyme seemed to be in remission, or asleep, or whatever it is that it does when it decides not to bother you. The symptoms I started experiencing--weakness, exhaustion, sweating--weren't a herx. If they had been, it would be the longest herx on record, as it's going on three months now.

I've tried just about every adrenal supplement known to mankind without results. I did receive a glowing recommendation for another one that should be arriving today. Fingers crossed that this one is able to get through to my adrenals--the others haven't.

Thanks for taking the time to send all the info, and especially for your concern.

Peggy

RE: Re: symptom list for coinfections?

What type of hydrocortisone were you taking? This is unusual if on a small dose to have such a reaction. What was your dose?

Yes hydrocortisone can weaken the immune system in HIGH doses over LONG periods of time. Also if it’s a non-bioidentical kind it can do damage. (Cortef being the best brand name to use.)

What symptoms did you have (haven’t read the whole thread yet)?

One thing it could be is that your immune system has been shut off for so long that when you took the hydrocortisone that it woke it up and started actually fighting the bugs. It could be something like a herx.

Here’s the thing that very few people realize. Your hormones, primarily cortisol and thyroid, are a MAJOR component of your immune system. In fact, without them your immune system wouldn’t work at all. Hormones are messengers that tell your cells what to do. Without the message, the immune cells don’t know to do anything. We Lymies typically have multiple infections, and each one depresses the immune response more and more. This in turn stresses out the adrenals and/or down-regulates the adrenal and thyroid hormones.

Have you tried nettles? They are supposed to heal the adrenals. I just got some and am taking my first dose in a minute. It’s been said that you can feel a difference very quickly. I’m not sure I will since I’ve already been taking cortisol for a while. My hope is to heal my adrenals and get off the cortisol, but we’ll see how that goes!

Please, don’t be afraid of hydrocortisone. In the proper dosage it can do wonders! I’m living proof! No, it doesn’t work for everyone, but most people should benefit from it!

[Guest guest]

Peggie,

Even without lyme balancing the thyroid/adrenal is difficult at best. I do

think that not being on any thyroid meds with hashimoto's could make your immune

response start up. My immune system attacked my thyroid so much that the doctor

likened it to " swiss cheese " and told me that it will never get better. Had I

started with medication earlier that probably would not have happened. I had

so much trouble finding the right dose of medication. I still believe when your

thyroids out of whack your body can't fight the lyme. To me its got to come

first. Your thyroid provide your body with the very energy it needs to attack

the lyme and co-infections.

The weakness, the tiredness all of it is probably related to your endocrine

system. Even the sweats.

I too have ebv off the charts. I keep rifing for it and I have taken antivirals

in the past. I don't know if had stayed in my titers with an old infection or

if its current.

I wish you well,

Tamara

> >

> > Hi Tamara,

> >

> > I know. But I'm afraid it was treatment for adrenal fatigue that got me into

this mess in the first place. I'd had Lyme problems for over 25 years, but I was

stable and functioning. Then I was prescribed hydrocortisone for adrenal

fatigue. I'd had cortisol testing and was below the range at 3 different times

of day and barely inside the range in the fourth time period. I was excited at

the prospect of something healing my adrenals so I wouldn't feel so exhausted

all the time. Then these symptoms started about six weeks after I started the

meds. I didn't realize at first that the drug might be the problem, but the more

I took it the worse I got. I finally weaned off, but the damage has been done.

> >

> > It's right on the prescription leaflet that hydrocortisone can weaken the

immune system, but I was assured that my dose was too small for that to happen.

I think that was a mistake. Of course, I could be wrong and it could be

something else. But I've had lots of tests and many other possibilities have

been ruled out. So my doctor thinks it's an infection--Lyme, coinfection, EBV.

And if so, I really think it was the hydrocortisone that created the conditions

for those infections, which were already present, to flare up.

> >

> > Live and learn, right? In any case, no more hydrocortisone for me.

> >

> > Peggy

> >

> >

> > Re: symptom list for coinfections?

> >

> > Peggie,

> >

> > I have sudden weakness as well and for me it was adrenal fatigue. It often

sets in after a long illness.

> >

> > Tamara

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Peggy,

Here is the symptoms list that is disease specific. This is the best way to

determine if you have any of the coinfections.

http://www.anapsid.org/lyme/symptoms/tbi-symptoms.html

You are well informed about these tests.. I really wish they would not use them,

as there is no way to trust the results.. Unless one has symptoms plus a

positive test, then it can be trusted.

You do need to be careful with the hydrocortisone, but if you are just

replenishing what your body is missing, you should be okay... Thyroid and

adrenals can bring on a whole new set of problems and symptoms... Some of us

have adrenal issues, many have low thyroid issues... A good endocrinologist is

worth his weight in gold, if you can find one... A good one can really help you

feel better..

Please consider reading the book I mentioned in my previous post... Dr.

Brownstein has a good reputation treating thyroid issues with Lugol's iodine..

http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/iodine.htm

http://iodine.imva.info/

Here is part of a post I wrote a while back on iodine:

>>>>IODINE - WHY YOU NEED IT

https://www.drbrownstein.com/bookstore_Iodine.php

It is very important to note that iodine, specifically Lugol's is not just

important for the thyroid, but for every cell in our body and

most importantly all of our organs.. I've read it is believed one can not get

cancer if they have sufficient amounts of iodine in

the body.. Women with fibrocystic breasts would not have this disease if they

had enough iodine in their body and it is also

curable by taking higher doses of Lugol's iodine. Folks with low iodine levels

are really open to a lot of disease.

And this I am reading from his book:

.......... " in his study of 24 patients showed that 92% of those with Hashimoto's

(hypOthyroid) and Grave's _hypeRthyroid disease had iodine deficiency " .....

.......... " Inorganic, non-radioactive iodine such as Lugol's or Iodoral has been

used to treat autoimmune thyroid problems for over 100 years. " ...........

.......... " There is a concern that the use of iodine on an autoimmune thyroid

patient can exacerbate the symptoms of thyroid toxicosis. Sometimes this claim

is made when the TSH test elevates shortly after starting iodine therapy.

However, after beginning iodine therapy it is common for the TSh test to

elevate. " ......

.......... " My experience has clearly shown that the appropriate use of iodine in

treating thyroid disorders, from hypOthyroidism to Graves' and Hashimoto's

disease, is not only safe, but effective and inexpensive. This is a holistic

way to search for and treat an underlying cause of thyroid problems with a safe

and natural agent. But, most importantly, people improve their condition

without experiencing any serious adverse effects. " .....

This links talks about Dr. Brownstein and Hashimoto's and iodine.

http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1362054

Brownstein_Autoimmune improving with iodine:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_252/ai_n6110597/

>>>Dr. Brownstein describes the use of therapeutic doses of iodine to treat many

different disorders such as: thyroid problems (including Graves' and Hashimoto's

Disease), autoimmune disorders, cancer (breast, uterine, ovarian and prostate),

fatigue, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, and cystic breasts. Many more

uses of iodine are covered in this book. Dr. Brownstein gives numerous citations

and uses case studies to illustrate his points.<<<

>>>>Thyroid disorders and iodine deficiency are reviewed in Chapter 6. Dr.

Brownstein shows why iodine needs to be evaluated in all patients with a thyroid

disorder. He focuses on three major illnesses of the thyroid: hypothyroidism,

Graves' and Hashimoto's disease. Not a lot of information has been written about

iodine deficiency in relation to Graves' and Hashimoto's disease. Dr. Brownstein

first presents his own studies that show that Graves' and Hashimoto's patients

are iodine deficient. Next he gives compelling case studies showing these

autoimmune patients improving with iodine replacement. The case histories are a

must read. This information needs to be read by all who treat or suffer with

thyroid problems.<<<

There may be some with Hashimoto's and Graves who may have an adverse reaction

to using Lugol's, but according to Dr. Brownstein this is seldom.

And there is a way to also start with a tiny amount of Lugol's if someone with

Hashimoto's or Graves wishes to do so.. Fill a glass with 8 oz of distilled

water, add 1 drop of Lugol's, mix and only drink 1 oz of this solution. This

equates to 1/8th of a drop of Lugol's... And while there are now two strengths

of Lugol's being sold, one should buy the 5% solution sold now only in 1 oz

bottles for about $16...

http://bloodrootproducts.com/Cancer-lugol's-lugols-Iodine-5-Percent-Solution-P15\

\.html

http://www.jcrowsmarketplace.com/1ozlugolssolution5valuepriceincludesshipping.as\

\px

http://www.jcrowsmarketplace.com/1lugolssolution5folkmedicinebydrjarvisincludess\

\andh.aspx

<<<<

And please remember, so often we do have ups and downs, but I believe you are

going to find some things that will help and get you back to better health...

The EMEM is a good machine, the Doug Coil seems to do a better job for Lyme and

the co's....

Jim

>

> Hi Jim,

>

> I just finished reading your post to Whitney in which you mentioned a

disease-specific symptom list for coinfections. If you later posted it, I

didn't see it--would you mind posting it again? I've been suffering for almost

3 months with strange symptoms. They include weak spells that come out of

nowhere and make me feel like I'm turning to jelly--once they show up they can

last all day, and they're becoming constant. Another is profuse sweating that

isn't activity-related, particularly since I can't do much to work up a sweat.

And it's not weather-related either; I'll start sweating even when it's chilly.

Profound exhaustion is another, but I'm already familiar with that one, having

had Lyme, or the physical destruction caused by it, for many years. But these

new symptoms are completely unfamiliar to me.

>

> I know I can have the expensive Igenex testing. But I also know I can spend

$1000 and still not know what I have, i.e. the tests come back negative and that

doesn't mean much of anything. So I've chosen to put that $1000 toward ordering

a coil machine, an upgrade from my weaker EMEM. But when I receive it, I'll

need to know what frequencies to use, so it would be helpful if I could zero in

on what might be causing these new symptoms.

>

> Whatever it is, I think it was already present in my system. I started

treatment for thyroid problems in January, and part of the protocol was taking

hydrocortisone to strengthen my weak adrenals. Hydrocortisone is known to

compromise the immune system, and although I was told I was on far too low a

dose for that to happen, I do think now that that's exactly what happened--my

immune system was weakened, and whatever had been lurking stopped lurking and

started partying. So my life has gone seriously downhill, and now I'm looking

for answers--and results.

>

> Thanks for any light you might be able to shed on this matter.

>

> Peggy

>

[Guest guest]

Let me just give you another perspective. I’m not

trying to convince you to take Cortef or anything, but just to make you

consider other possibilities.

If you didn’t get a cold even while being exposed to

viruses or bacteria it does not mean that your immune system is

functioning. It can actually be that it is so worn down that it can’t

make an assault on the new invader. This is very common with Lyme.

Many people with Lyme report being relatively healthy (not having colds/flu for

many years), then when they start treating they start getting sick because they

have boosted/woken up their immune system and now they have symptoms. So,

what you are going through probably isn’t a herx, but it could be an

adrenal crisis or you are just now feeling the symptoms of your disease.

Did you check your aldosterone? The symptoms you listed

are associated with low aldosterone. How is your blood pressure?

Mine was 90/60 for as long as I can remember. I was told to add salt to

my diet to bring it up! Anyway, once I learned all the hormone stuff, I

got my aldosterone tested and it was in the dirt. I had been treating my

adrenals for a while, and had started treating thyroid and things were MUCH

better, but my temps didn’t come up all the way and things weren’t quite

the way I thought they should be. I added Florinef to my meds and within

a week my temps were perfect and stable! Yea! It was amazing!

I have had many ups and downs, mostly because of stupid errors

and just trying different things that didn’t work. All in all

though, I totally credit cortisol, T3 and Florinef for how good I feel

now. No, I’m not 100%, but I went from probably 30% to 80% in just

a couple of months getting my adrenals straight. I fluctuate around that

80% mark, and for now that is good enough for me!

Just curious, which adrenals group were you on? NTHAdrenals?

That’s who I ‘used’ and followed their protocol to the

letter. No, it doesn’t work out the same for everyone and Cortef

isn’t right for everyone, but it worked for me. (They’ve

modified the protocol since I did it.) Yes, it is a daily battle trying

to keep the dose right because things can change so quickly, but when I forget

to take the Cortef for several days I can tell it. It takes a while for

me to get the symptoms, but they do come!

I know you are highly against cortisol. I am in no way saying

that it is the right thing for you. There are plenty of ways to boost

your cortisol production and/or heal the adrenals naturally. But the fact

is, cortisol is THE most important hormone that your body makes. Without

it our bodies can’t live – we literally die within days of an

adrenal crash if cortisol is not given to us. Please don’t ignore

the signs of adrenal fatigue. It is VERY serious. And your symptoms

indicate at least mild to moderate adrenal fatigue and should not be ignored.

Do you do the temperature and blood pressure tests to figure out

how your adrenals and thyroid are doing?

I know how hard all of this is. It took me over a year to

understand how the hormones worked! But when Lyme came into the picture

it was easy to see how it truly screws up your hormones and how important it is

to treat hormone deficiencies while treating Lyme. As I said in my last

post to you, your hormones are an integral part of the immune system and it

doesn’t work without them.

Here’s a really good site for learning about adrenal

fatigue. http://www.drlam.com/articles/adrenal_fatigue.asp

I

agree with about 98% of what he says, which is a lot more than most

sites I’ve seen!

Here is another site for your consideration. http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

I don’t know what adrenal/thyroid group you were with, but

this site is great for info!

Sorry if this is info you already have. I read through it

often to keep it fresh in my head! I’m due to do it again because I’m

starting to forget some things! J

I only want to be of assistance and I don’t ever mean to

come across as pushy or a know-it-all. :-}

(((HUGS)))

From:

Lyme_and_Rife [mailto:Lyme_and_Rife ] On

Behalf Of T Walters

Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 1:16 PM

To: Lyme_and_Rife

Subject: Re: Re: symptom list for coinfections?

Hi

,

I

was using Cortef, and there's no way I would take it again. I was under

close supervision while on it, and I was on the adrenals group moderated by

several knowledgeable people. Most people there were totally sold on

hydrocortisone. So I know that my reaction is unusual. It was

a replacement dose, not a high dose at all, but as I mentioned in another post,

I am extremely sensitive to medication and can't take many things that other people

take without a second thought. That's probably thanks to my 25+ years

with Lyme.

My

immune system hadn't been shut off when I started Cortef--I didn't even

get a cold last winter, and I could be exposed to people with viruses

without catching them. I was doing very well, in fact. Lyme seemed

to be in remission, or asleep, or whatever it is that it does when it decides

not to bother you. The symptoms I started experiencing--weakness,

exhaustion, sweating--weren't a herx. If they had been, it would be the

longest herx on record, as it's going on three months now.

I've

tried just about every adrenal supplement known to mankind without

results. I did receive a glowing recommendation for another one

that should be arriving today. Fingers crossed that this one is able

to get through to my adrenals--the others haven't.

Thanks

for taking the time to send all the info, and especially for your concern.

Peggy

-----

Original Message -----

From:

To: Lyme_and_Rife

Sent: Thursday, June 10,

2010 3:11 PM

Subject: RE:

Re: symptom list for coinfections?

What type of hydrocortisone were you

taking? This is unusual if on a small dose to have such a reaction.

What was your dose?

Yes hydrocortisone can weaken the immune

system in HIGH doses over LONG periods of time. Also if it’s a

non-bioidentical kind it can do damage. (Cortef being the best brand name

to use.)

What symptoms did you have

(haven’t read the whole thread yet)?

One thing it could be is that your

immune system has been shut off for so long that when you took the

hydrocortisone that it woke it up and started actually fighting the bugs.

It could be something like a herx.

Here’s the thing that very few

people realize. Your hormones, primarily cortisol and thyroid, are a

MAJOR component of your immune system. In fact, without them your immune

system wouldn’t work at all. Hormones are messengers that tell your

cells what to do. Without the message, the immune cells don’t know

to do anything. We Lymies typically have multiple infections, and each

one depresses the immune response more and more. This in turn stresses

out the adrenals and/or down-regulates the adrenal and thyroid hormones.

Have you tried nettles? They are

supposed to heal the adrenals. I just got some and am taking my first

dose in a minute. It’s been said that you can feel a difference very

quickly. I’m not sure I will since I’ve already been taking

cortisol for a while. My hope is to heal my adrenals and get off the

cortisol, but we’ll see how that goes!

Please, don’t be afraid of

hydrocortisone. In the proper dosage it can do wonders! I’m

living proof! No, it doesn’t work for everyone, but most people

should benefit from it!

No virus

found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2930 - Release Date: 06/10/10

11:35:00

[Guest guest]

Hi Peggy,

The reason why the put people with Hashi's on thyroid is to trick the body out

of producing antibodies to the thyroid. If your body is not making its own

thyroid your antibodies will have less to attack.

There is really no such thing as Hashi's not being enough to treat. If taken

care of early you will never need to get to that critical stage. I wish that

mine was treated earlier the suffering and heartache would have been much less.

Your email puts me in an awkward position. I don't want to hound you because

obviously you are overwelmed and the goal is for you to get better. The problem

is that the symptoms you are describing are clearly thyroid/adrenal related and

I know in my heart you won't get better unless this is fixed.

You can not get any infection under control if your endocrine system is not

working and take it from me adrenal crises can be life threatening.

I will not hound you anymore. I just want you to get better.

I have lyme, co-infections, hashi's, adrenal problems and high viral titers.

Many times the symptoms of one overlaps the other and its hard to tell what is

from what. My lyme and co-infections are for the most part in remission. I am

now just working on viral issues, endocrine issues and the aftermath of what the

disease has done.

There is light at the end of the tunnel.

Tamara

> > >

> > > Hi Tamara,

> > >

> > > I know. But I'm afraid it was treatment for adrenal fatigue that got me

into this mess in the first place. I'd had Lyme problems for over 25 years, but

I was stable and functioning. Then I was prescribed hydrocortisone for adrenal

fatigue. I'd had cortisol testing and was below the range at 3 different times

of day and barely inside the range in the fourth time period. I was excited at

the prospect of something healing my adrenals so I wouldn't feel so exhausted

all the time. Then these symptoms started about six weeks after I started the

meds. I didn't realize at first that the drug might be the problem, but the more

I took it the worse I got. I finally weaned off, but the damage has been done.

> > >

> > > It's right on the prescription leaflet that hydrocortisone can weaken the

immune system, but I was assured that my dose was too small for that to happen.

I think that was a mistake. Of course, I could be wrong and it could be

something else. But I've had lots of tests and many other possibilities have

been ruled out. So my doctor thinks it's an infection--Lyme, coinfection, EBV.

And if so, I really think it was the hydrocortisone that created the conditions

for those infections, which were already present, to flare up.

> > >

> > > Live and learn, right? In any case, no more hydrocortisone for me.

> > >

> > > Peggy

> > >

> > >

> > > Re: symptom list for coinfections?

> > >

> > > Peggie,

> > >

> > > I have sudden weakness as well and for me it was adrenal fatigue. It often

sets in after a long illness.

> > >

> > > Tamara

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Tamara. I appreciate your concern. The point I was trying to make about the Hashi's antibodies on my labs was that I don't know whether "less than 6" means "more than zero" or "none." I'm told it depends on the lab--some report one way, some another. I understand that any amount of Hashi's antibodies are antibodies and therefore require treatment. It's a matter of getting the info from the lab about what their report really means. I haven't done that yet as it's not the number one priority at the moment.

I also know that I have both thyroid and adrenal problems, and just a few days ago I discussed the issue of adrenal crisis with my doctor. This is not being ignored. Right now I'm sick enough, and the symptoms are so vastly different from what I've been experiencing previously, that there's no question I have an infection. So the approach is to deal with that crisis before returning to treating the endocrine system.

Thanks again.

Peggy

Re: symptom list for coinfections?

Hi Peggy, The reason why the put people with Hashi's on thyroid is to trick the body out of producing antibodies to the thyroid. If your body is not making its own thyroid your antibodies will have less to attack. There is really no such thing as Hashi's not being enough to treat. If taken care of early you will never need to get to that critical stage. I wish that mine was treated earlier the suffering and heartache would have been much less. Your email puts me in an awkward position. I don't want to hound you because obviously you are overwelmed and the goal is for you to get better. The problem is that the symptoms you are describing are clearly thyroid/adrenal related and I know in my heart you won't get better unless this is fixed. You can not get any infection under control if your endocrine system is not working and take it from me adrenal crises can be life threatening. I will not hound you anymore. I just want you to get better. I have lyme, co-infections, hashi's, adrenal problems and high viral titers. Many times the symptoms of one overlaps the other and its hard to tell what is from what. My lyme and co-infections are for the most part in remission. I am now just working on viral issues, endocrine issues and the aftermath of what the disease has done. There is light at the end of the tunnel. Tamara