Re: Is tinnitus common with this as well

[Guest guest]

Many people with tinnitus have misophonia as well. In fact, it was a couple of

research audiologists (the Jastreboffs) who identified and named misophonia

while they were studying tinnitus and found that many tinnitus sufferers hated

particular sounds.

Meanwhile, independently of the Jastreboffs, Dr of this forum had

noticed clients with unusual sensitivity to particular sounds and these clients

often did not have tinnitus or any hearing problems at all. This has led to some

confusion, to my mind, with the Jastreboffs seeming to associate misophonia

mostly with tinnitus and hyperacusis, while Dr recognised that it occurs

very commonly on its own - beginning usually in late childhood or puberty.

Anyway, there are heaps of people on this forum who have misophonia and some

kind of anxiety disorder (like OCD or social phobia) or ADHD, but no tinnitus.

And then there are the even larger number of people here who have no

audiological or psychological conditions at all besides misophonia.

So yes, there is a connection, but it doesn't appear to be the cause, at least

in many cases here.

>

> I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I was in a class

where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He had us all raise

our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and moved it up higher and

higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch anymore, put our hands

down. One by one hands went down...except mine. Eventually he asked me why my

hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put them down when we don't hear

the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not possible, I've turned off the

machine " . Guess they must not have known about tinnitus then.

>

> Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

>

> Judi

>

[Guest guest]

I would strongly dispute that people with audiosensitivity ( " hyperacusis " ), have

no audiological conditions. Most, possibly all, have Meniere Spectrum Disorder.

I found that stapedial reflex abnormalities were universal in audiosensitive

patients, and in any case, the number of other associated symptoms of peripheral

ear disease (eg tinnitus, aural fullness) were so common that audiosensitivty

must also be of peripheral origin. I think misophonia is a secondary complex

psychological system constructed on top of primary sensory distortions through

fear, anxiety, misattribution, faulty learning, frustration, rage and

misspecified orientation reflexes.

There is a logical fallacy at play here. Patients are tested by audiologists,

who find no abnormalities, but then illogically conclude that therefore there

cannot be any auditory disorders. This is quite arrogant, and overlooks the fact

that audiological tests are designed to detect loss of function, not an excess,

which can actually be much more devastating. There is an overreliance on

negative test findings, as opposed to positive clinical histories, as with Judi.

Unknown unknowns are not just a figment of Rumsfeld's imagination!

False positive responses during pure tone audiometry are the bane of

audiologists' life, and offenders are characterised in very negative terms, ie

hysterical, stupid, inattentive, psychogenic, uncooperative, etc. I was never

happy with such " explanations " , but finally had to deal with the problem about

30 years ago when doing PTAs under pressure on children in a Dyslexia Assessment

Clinic. I finally worked out that the problem was in fact tinnitus, in the same

way that Judi's tinnitus was recognised (at least by her!). Establishing what

were " my sounds " , and what were the " patient's sounds " , solved the problem, and

patients no longer gave false positive responses and testing was reliable. I

have never found a patient with tinnitus in whom I could not find evidence of

ear disease, not can I find in the literature any brain disorder or lesion that

caused tinnitus in the absence of peripheral ear dysfunction, though like

audiosensitivity, patients with tinnitus can construct maladaptive and

distressing secondary brain circuits.

Before demands are made for more and expensive research, previous research

should be thoroughly read and all theories devised to explain auditory

oversensitivity should first be tested or refuted.

*************

> >

> > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I was in a class

where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He had us all raise

our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and moved it up higher and

higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch anymore, put our hands

down. One by one hands went down...except mine. Eventually he asked me why my

hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put them down when we don't hear

the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not possible, I've turned off the

machine " . Guess they must not have known about tinnitus then.

> >

> > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> >

> > Judi

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I believe so. I have this and I have tried to damage my hearing to lessen the

pain. I got slight tinnitus. It isn't that much of a ring and doesn't bother me

at all.

> > >

> > > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I was in a class

where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He had us all raise

our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and moved it up higher and

higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch anymore, put our hands

down. One by one hands went down...except mine. Eventually he asked me why my

hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put them down when we don't hear

the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not possible, I've turned off the

machine " . Guess they must not have known about tinnitus then.

> > >

> > > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> > >

> > > Judi

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Very well put. However, you're knowledge is so far beyond my understanding, I'm

not sure how to respond. It would be great if someone like you could be involved

in the research of misophonia.

It sounds ( " feels " ) very possible that the original sensitivity was " constructed

on top of primary distortions " . But I'm unsure why it would be distorted through

emotional responses? If this were the case, why would it be focused on a rather

narrow set of sounds -- usually eating sounds (or other softer sounds)? On the

other hand, if it starts for most during puberty, that is definitely an

emotional time of life. But it's also a time when the brain is still being

developed and pathways established -- based on many factors.

I'm no doctor, so I'm just explaining what appears to be common sense to me.

kathy

> > >

> > > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I was in a class

where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He had us all raise

our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and moved it up higher and

higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch anymore, put our hands

down. One by one hands went down...except mine. Eventually he asked me why my

hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put them down when we don't hear

the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not possible, I've turned off the

machine " . Guess they must not have known about tinnitus then.

> > >

> > > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> > >

> > > Judi

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

What about those who it started at the age of 4 or 5(me)?

> > > >

> > > > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I was in a

class where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He had us all

raise our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and moved it up

higher and higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch anymore, put our

hands down. One by one hands went down...except mine. Eventually he asked me

why my hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put them down when we don't

hear the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not possible, I've turned off

the machine " . Guess they must not have known about tinnitus then.

> > > >

> > > > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> > > >

> > > > Judi

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I don't believe that I have ever said that people with hyperacusis have no

audiological conditions. I was actually writing about people with misophonia,

not people with hyperacusis. I don't believe they are the same condition.

Compare your phrase: 'people with ... " hyperacusis " '

with my phrase: 'people who have misophonia'

from the snippets of our respective messages below.

My general concern is that audiologists tend to see misophonia through

" audiological glasses " . Note: I don't think this is true of Dr , who has

looked beyond her clinical patients and brought together a group of two thousand

misophonia sufferers on the Internet, most of whom have never visited an

audiologist.

But my original point is that audiologists often see cases in which misophonia

is co-morbid with audiological problems such as tinnitus. Dr Jastreboff, for

example, claimed that most cases of misophonia he saw also had other conditions

like tinnitus - there were only a few " pure " misophonia cases in his sample.

That need hardly be surprising if tinnitus, not misophonia, were his principal

focus of research.

What I am contending is that most cases of " pure " misophonia (eg misophonia

without obvious audiological problems like tinnitus or peripheral ear

conditions, etc) would not present themselves at audiology clinics, at least if

the people on this forum are any indication. At the very least, it makes

clinical experience in audiological practices of uncertain value for making

inferences about the general population of misophonia sufferers, especially the

incidence of " pure " misophonia sufferers. Some people with misophonia see

psychiatrists, some see psychologists, some see occupational therapists, and

many apparently suffer in embarrassed silence. And these professions will see

other connections with misophonia: OCD, ADHD, anxiety disorders, sensory

integration disorder, etc where audiologists will mostly notice audiological

problems.

In other words, an audiologist may see lots of cases of tinnitus and misophonia.

They will not see the cases of OCD or ADHD or adult autism spectrum disorder

with misophonia that were referred to a clinical psychologist or a psychiatrist.

Or the people referred to occupational therapists for treatment as " sensory

defensive " . And in particular, they will probably not see many of the people

with " pure " misophonia who don't think of seeing anyone but rather keep the

condition hidden.

So you need to look outside audiology to see the wider picture. Most people with

misophonia are by-passing audiology clinics; you are only seeing a (possibly

unusual and unrepresentative) minority of us. It would take something like

assessing all students in a random sample of high schools for misophonia,

together with other audiological, medical and psychological conditions, to

answer the question about co-morbid conditions of misophonia. That kind of study

hasn't been done yet.

> >

> > Anyway, there are heaps of people on this forum who have misophonia and some

kind of anxiety disorder (like OCD or social phobia) or ADHD, but no tinnitus.

And then there are the even larger number of people here who have no

audiological or psychological conditions at all besides misophonia.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the helpful feedback. I have not given too much thought as to how

exactly one gets from audiosensitivity to misophonia, as I think it is far more

useful to concentrate on the primary sensory distortions, as seen in Meniere

Spectrum Disorder for example. Ear infections, which are commonest in young

children, commonly cause cochlear hypersensitivity with symptoms including

auditory distortion, diplacusis, audiosensitivity, tinnitus, palinacusis,

hallucinations, etc. However, I think I have identified a crucial mechanism in

the development of autism. Latent otitis media leads to audiosensitivity in

infants, where the most prominent sounds are probably mother's voice or

heartbeat. Hence a conditioned aversion to the mother can develop, breaking the

mother-child bond and causing autism.

I am easily Googled, though I am not sure how much of my published work is

readily available to the public.

*****************************************************************

> > > > >

> > > > > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I was in a

class where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He had us all

raise our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and moved it up

higher and higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch anymore, put our

hands down. One by one hands went down...except mine. Eventually he asked me

why my hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put them down when we don't

hear the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not possible, I've turned off

the machine " . Guess they must not have known about tinnitus then.

> > > > >

> > > > > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> > > > >

> > > > > Judi

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow. That is a fascinating story.

I developed Tinnitus after attending a loud concert in May of 2010. I was

28-years-old then. I have been listening to extremely loud music for 19 years

now via stereos, ipods, and concerts. It is no wonder I have this incessant

loud ringing now. I figured that by listening to extremely loud music I would

lose some of my hearing but my hearing is still off the charts even with the

addition of ringing in my ears. Plus, the visual triggers drive me crazy so

losing my hearing wouldn't allieveate the emotional and physical (because I am

so tense all of the time I have chronic pain) anguish I experience. Argh.

>

> I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I was in a class

where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He had us all raise

our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and moved it up higher and

higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch anymore, put our hands

down. One by one hands went down...except mine. Eventually he asked me why my

hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put them down when we don't hear

the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not possible, I've turned off the

machine " . Guess they must not have known about tinnitus then.

>

> Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

>

> Judi

>

[Guest guest]

For me I ve had Tinnitus for as long as I can remember.   Ive always slept with a fan on in order to NOT hear the ringing.  It gets very loud sometimes.  Sometimes my aggitation seems to be greater when the ringing is higher.  For example:  I was sitting outside last night, lots of crickets making noise.  A couple of them stopped and when it did its like my ear was not adjusted to the silence all of a sudden and I was slightly dizzy because the ringing was so sound.   So for me the louder the environment my ringing adapts and gets louder sometimes..... frustrating stuff.

 

Wow. That is a fascinating story.

I developed Tinnitus after attending a loud concert in May of 2010. I was 28-years-old then. I have been listening to extremely loud music for 19 years now via stereos, ipods, and concerts. It is no wonder I have this incessant loud ringing now. I figured that by listening to extremely loud music I would lose some of my hearing but my hearing is still off the charts even with the addition of ringing in my ears. Plus, the visual triggers drive me crazy so losing my hearing wouldn't allieveate the emotional and physical (because I am so tense all of the time I have chronic pain) anguish I experience. Argh.

>

> I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I was in a class where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He had us all raise our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and moved it up higher and higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch anymore, put our hands down. One by one hands went down...except mine. Eventually he asked me why my hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put them down when we don't hear the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not possible, I've turned off the machine " . Guess they must not have known about tinnitus then.

>

> Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

>

> Judi

>

-- Tracey traceyr@... http://www.teachingleaninc.com

(My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

[Guest guest]

I have been trying to lose hearing to help. It has been working. I got slight

buzz in my hear after sitting next to my friend who kept blowing his air horn

at a school game. I went to a dance and sat next to stereo for about half a

hour. I wish I sat next to it longer. My sensitivity is slightly decreased sense

the game. I have also been exposed to loud sounds with my family.

> >

> > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I was in a class

where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He had us all raise

our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and moved it up higher and

higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch anymore, put our hands

down. One by one hands went down...except mine. Eventually he asked me why my

hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put them down when we don't hear

the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not possible, I've turned off the

machine " . Guess they must not have known about tinnitus then.

> >

> > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> >

> > Judi

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You are still of the Bruno Bettelheim camp of parent-emo causation of autism?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I was in a

class where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He had us all

raise our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and moved it up

higher and higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch anymore, put our

hands down. One by one hands went down...except mine. Eventually he asked me

why my hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put them down when we don't

hear the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not possible, I've turned off

the machine " . Guess they must not have known about tinnitus then.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Judi

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Unless there is compelling evidence to the contary, tinnitus starts in the

cochlea. Noise-induced or noise-aggravated tinnitus, and involvement of a

separate vestibular part of the inner ear (causing giddiness for example), only

confirms this. Check out Tullio Phenomenon.

*********************************************************************

> > >

> > > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I was in a class

> > where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He had us all raise

> > our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and moved it up higher

> > and higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch anymore, put our

> > hands down. One by one hands went down...except mine. Eventually he asked me

> > why my hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put them down when we

> > don't hear the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not possible, I've

> > turned off the machine " . Guess they must not have known about tinnitus then.

> > >

> > > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> > >

> > > Judi

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Tracey

> traceyr@...

>

> http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your comments, most of which I agree with. However, in order to avoid

a long, tedious and probably inconclusive discussion about terminology for sound

sensitivities, and noting the strong comorbidity between supposedly differing

subtypes (eg cochlear caused and cortically caused), I am concentrating on

aspects of them that can probably soon be understood. If, for example, it was

found that misophonic persons had a very high incidence of green toenails, the

best strategy is surely to try and understand why the nails are abnormal, though

obviously there will still be a long way to go before the whole condition is

explained. Also, I am a big fan of Occam's Principle and 's Canon.

***********************************************************************

> > >

> > > Anyway, there are heaps of people on this forum who have misophonia and

some kind of anxiety disorder (like OCD or social phobia) or ADHD, but no

tinnitus. And then there are the even larger number of people here who have no

audiological or psychological conditions at all besides misophonia.

>

[Guest guest]

Ive read about Patulous E Tube, Tullio, 8 th cranial nerve damage, Menieres, etc.   I had 4 hours of testing at Vanderbilt for all this stuff because of my issues, even as I stated before the superior canal dehiscence.... they said my ears are functioning normally.   (I said yeah right)..... .... So they believe all this is Neuro based and CNS based per them.   I dont know what other tests to do.   Ive had all these 4 times over the last 15 years and nothing has ever shown anything.   So they are relating it back to my Dysautonomia and Ehlers Danlos... Most ENT's look at me and say I have no clue! .... scary place to be...........All I know is some sounds trigger a slight off balance'ness just for a second or so as well as an aggitation.   Its never true vertigo like with Tullio.   Usually the Tinnitus is ringing higher!

 

Unless there is compelling evidence to the contary, tinnitus starts in the cochlea. Noise-induced or noise-aggravated tinnitus, and involvement of a separate vestibular part of the inner ear (causing giddiness for example), only confirms this. Check out Tullio Phenomenon.

*********************************************************************

> > >

> > > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I was in a class

> > where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He had us all raise

> > our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and moved it up higher

> > and higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch anymore, put our

> > hands down. One by one hands went down...except mine. Eventually he asked me

> > why my hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put them down when we

> > don't hear the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not possible, I've

> > turned off the machine " . Guess they must not have known about tinnitus then.

> > >

> > > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> > >

> > > Judi

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Tracey

> traceyr@...

>

> http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

>

-- Tracey traceyr@... http://www.teachingleaninc.com

(My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

[Guest guest]

All my experience of testing patients, reading the professional literature, and

common sense tells me this must be an ear problem. Unfortunately doctors have

not been listening to the wise words of Rumsfeld, who described the

concept of unknown unknowns (or even unknown knowns). Other conditions which

you could check out are cochlear hypotension, perilymph fistula, CSF

hypovolemia. CSF spinal fistula, ie chronic or intermittent leaks, are seen in

patients with conective tissue disease.

**********************************************************************

> > > > >

> > > > > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I was in a

> > class

> > > > where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He had us all

> > raise

> > > > our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and moved it up

> > higher

> > > > and higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch anymore, put

> > our

> > > > hands down. One by one hands went down...except mine. Eventually he

> > asked me

> > > > why my hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put them down when

> > we

> > > > don't hear the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not possible,

> > I've

> > > > turned off the machine " . Guess they must not have known about tinnitus

> > then.

> > > > >

> > > > > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> > > > >

> > > > > Judi

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Tracey

> > > traceyr@

> > >

> > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Tracey

> traceyr@...

>

> http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

>

[Guest guest]

It's interesting that you bring up CSFL's... I doing some investigation on that as well. Will the poor vascular vessels I have I don't always get the proper blood flow to my head. I sometimes have to take midodrine to help with that. I've had 2 MRI's showing no inter cranial pressure, but I'm not so sure it can always show the pressure release. I have chronic neck pain so some have said I have a constant low level of high pressure that is intermittent due to my poor vascular systems ability to drain fluid. I also have disc degeneration in 4 of them which I think could contribute. All a theory. I would love to know which tests to have done for the ears since I've had 2 sessions at Vandy Otolaryngology and they have come up w nothing. I'm pretty sure they ruled out the fistula, plus I've been on 70 flights this year so the fistula would have prob given me more fits with pressure changes on airplanes. I've noticed this progressing over the past few years past my normal sensitivity so it seems progressive over time to me. Also you have to add the light sensitivity to it. I get dizzy from the lighting the. My ears are triggered too. I say my brain is firing! When it is I'm agitated at my worst. Thats why for me I think it's more than just the ear. I could be dead wrong. T Sent from my iPad

All my experience of testing patients, reading the professional literature, and common sense tells me this must be an ear problem. Unfortunately doctors have not been listening to the wise words of Rumsfeld, who described the concept of unknown unknowns (or even unknown knowns). Other conditions which you could check out are cochlear hypotension, perilymph fistula, CSF hypovolemia. CSF spinal fistula, ie chronic or intermittent leaks, are seen in patients with conective tissue disease.

**********************************************************************

> > > > >

> > > > > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I was in a

> > class

> > > > where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He had us all

> > raise

> > > > our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and moved it up

> > higher

> > > > and higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch anymore, put

> > our

> > > > hands down. One by one hands went down...except mine. Eventually he

> > asked me

> > > > why my hand was still up. I said "we're supposed to put them down when

> > we

> > > > don't hear the high pitch...I still hear it". He said "not possible,

> > I've

> > > > turned off the machine". Guess they must not have known about tinnitus

> > then.

> > > > >

> > > > > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> > > > >

> > > > > Judi

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Tracey

> > > traceyr@

> > >

> > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Tracey

> traceyr@...

>

> http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

>

Reply to sender |

Reply to group |

Reply via web post |

Start a New Topic

Messages in this topic

(18)

MARKETPLACE

How Bad is Your Score? Use this Free, Easy Way to See Your Score. freecreditscore.com.

Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use

|**

[Guest guest]

If you Google Ehlers Danlos CSF hypotension you will get many excellent

recent papers. ED is likely to weaken the membranes enclosing CSF drainage

pathways, so trauma or exertion is likely to open a CSF leak. I don't think

blood vessels are involved.

No tests will detect CSF or perilymph leaks if they have resealed at the

time of test. This may seem obvious, but it is surprising how many doctors use

negative findings to dismiss the patient's complaints or clinical history.

The Tullio phenomenon is " dizziness induced by sound " (T.C.Hain). This

does not have to be rotatory (vertigo).

I think it is ENTs rather than patients who have no clue!

Perilymph fistulas are very often caused or reopened on landing in planes,

so I agree than you are unlikely to have a PF (at least this year).

I suspect the vestibular system in the ear can trigger a wide range of

visual symptoms, eg the aura in migraine. So I think you, along with the vast

majority of the medical profession, could be dead wrong that the brain must be

involved!

So I suspect you have intermittent low CSF pressure due to spinal or neck

leaks, resulting in low cochlear pressure and hence Meniere Spectrum Disorder.

***********************

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I was in a

> > > > class

> > > > > > where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He had us

all

> > > > raise

> > > > > > our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and moved it

up

> > > > higher

> > > > > > and higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch anymore,

put

> > > > our

> > > > > > hands down. One by one hands went down...except mine. Eventually he

> > > > asked me

> > > > > > why my hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put them down

when

> > > > we

> > > > > > don't hear the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not possible,

> > > > I've

> > > > > > turned off the machine " . Guess they must not have known about

tinnitus

> > > > then.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Judi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --

> > > > > Tracey

> > > > > traceyr@

> > > > >

> > > > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Tracey

> > > traceyr@

> > >

> > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > >

> >

> >

> > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic

> > Messages in this topic (18)

> > RECENT ACTIVITY: New Members 373 New Photos 2 New Files 1

> > Visit Your Group

> > PLEASE BE AWARE THIS IS A STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL GROUP AND NO MESSAGES ARE TO

BE USED FOR ANY PURPOSE OUTSIDE OF THE YAHOO GROUP MEMBERSHIP SITE OR REPRODUCED

OR COPIED AND MAILED FOR ANY PURPOSE.

> >

> > ALSO DO NOT SHARE MEMBER EMAIL ADDRESSES OR NAMES WITH ANYONE.

> > Thank you. MJ

> > MARKETPLACE

> > How Bad is Your Score? Use this Free, Easy Way to See Your Score.

freecreditscore.com.

> > Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get

the Yahoo! Toolbar now.

> >

> >

> > Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use |**

>

[Guest guest]

I suspect these are overlapping zen diagram like situations, about 1/6 people

can hear tinnitus but in 99/100 subjects, it does not bother them or intrude

upon them.

With 4S/misophonia, there are some who have mild t, most do not.

Most do not have hyperacusis, either.

Dr. J

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I was in

a

> > > > > class

> > > > > > > where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He had us

all

> > > > > raise

> > > > > > > our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and moved it

up

> > > > > higher

> > > > > > > and higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch anymore,

put

> > > > > our

> > > > > > > hands down. One by one hands went down...except mine. Eventually

he

> > > > > asked me

> > > > > > > why my hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put them down

when

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > don't hear the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not

possible,

> > > > > I've

> > > > > > > turned off the machine " . Guess they must not have known about

tinnitus

> > > > > then.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Judi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --

> > > > > > Tracey

> > > > > > traceyr@

> > > > > >

> > > > > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > > > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > > Tracey

> > > > traceyr@

> > > >

> > > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic

> > > Messages in this topic (18)

> > > RECENT ACTIVITY: New Members 373 New Photos 2 New Files 1

> > > Visit Your Group

> > > PLEASE BE AWARE THIS IS A STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL GROUP AND NO MESSAGES ARE

TO BE USED FOR ANY PURPOSE OUTSIDE OF THE YAHOO GROUP MEMBERSHIP SITE OR

REPRODUCED OR COPIED AND MAILED FOR ANY PURPOSE.

> > >

> > > ALSO DO NOT SHARE MEMBER EMAIL ADDRESSES OR NAMES WITH ANYONE.

> > > Thank you. MJ

> > > MARKETPLACE

> > > How Bad is Your Score? Use this Free, Easy Way to See Your Score.

freecreditscore.com.

> > > Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on -

Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.

> > >

> > >

> > > Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use |**

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think the crucial point is not that many with misophonia do not have

audiosensitivity (hyperacusis), but that so many do have it, as well as an

excess of other otological symptoms. This must be telling us something

important. I regard misophonia as a developmental disorder, a (mis)learned

response to abnormal acoustic experience. So early in life they may well have

been audiosensitive, or had other cochlear distortions (eg palinacusis, where

sounds are heard more than once).

I agree that children rarely complain about tinnitus, though when asked

carefully it often seems to be affecting their life. How many children petrified

of scary monsters in bed are ever asked about tinnitus? I would be amazed if

99% of adults were not bothered by their tinnitus? Do you have a reference for

this?

**********************************************************************

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I was

in a

> > > > > > class

> > > > > > > > where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He had

us all

> > > > > > raise

> > > > > > > > our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and moved

it up

> > > > > > higher

> > > > > > > > and higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch

anymore, put

> > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > hands down. One by one hands went down...except mine. Eventually

he

> > > > > > asked me

> > > > > > > > why my hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put them

down when

> > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > don't hear the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not

possible,

> > > > > > I've

> > > > > > > > turned off the machine " . Guess they must not have known about

tinnitus

> > > > > > then.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Judi

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > Tracey

> > > > > > > traceyr@

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > > > > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --

> > > > > Tracey

> > > > > traceyr@

> > > > >

> > > > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New

Topic

> > > > Messages in this topic (18)

> > > > RECENT ACTIVITY: New Members 373 New Photos 2 New Files 1

> > > > Visit Your Group

> > > > PLEASE BE AWARE THIS IS A STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL GROUP AND NO MESSAGES

ARE TO BE USED FOR ANY PURPOSE OUTSIDE OF THE YAHOO GROUP MEMBERSHIP SITE OR

REPRODUCED OR COPIED AND MAILED FOR ANY PURPOSE.

> > > >

> > > > ALSO DO NOT SHARE MEMBER EMAIL ADDRESSES OR NAMES WITH ANYONE.

> > > > Thank you. MJ

> > > > MARKETPLACE

> > > > How Bad is Your Score? Use this Free, Easy Way to See Your Score.

freecreditscore.com.

> > > > Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on -

Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use |**

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I have misophonia and hyperacusis. I had other audio abnormalities as a child

which have diminished over time (or else I adapted to them) †" though I haven't

taken the time to analyze or diagnose them. I also had numerous ENT infections

as a child.

I've heard short duration tones in my ears minimally throughout my life, say

like a couple times a year. The tone lasts from 10-20 seconds. I thought that

maybe I was tuning into some kind of electronic signal like someone turning on a

tv or radio. It actually sounds like " the emergency broadcast system " tone, but

in my ear.

A couple years ago, I did have a small bout of tinnitus with vertigo after

diving too deep in a lake, then getting on a plane. The condition lasted about a

year before it was completely gone. So I can compare that experience with the

short duration tones which were not accompanied by any other symptoms.

Beyond that, if I'm really quiet and still, I can tune into other frequencies --

such as an underlying metallic sound that seems to almost feel like a life-force

type of sound that exists EVERYWHERE.

And sometimes, if I'm very still and cover my ears, I think I can tune into my

brainwave frequencies, which are distinctly different from my heart beat,

breathing pattern or cranial-sacral rhythm. It almost sounds like when a doctor

lets a pregnant mother listen to the heart beat of her unborn child. It's a

faster swooshing sound. Maybe someone better versed in anatomy knows of some

other part of the body that has that type of rhythm?

So:

• tinnitus with vertigo -- very stressful time, very disoriented, couldn't

think straight

• sudden loud noises and/or general loud environment -- stressful, but can

deal

• selective soft sounds -- panic/fight/flight

• other mysterious subtle sounds -- curiously calming and enjoyable

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I

was in a

> > > > > > > class

> > > > > > > > > where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He

had us all

> > > > > > > raise

> > > > > > > > > our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and

moved it up

> > > > > > > higher

> > > > > > > > > and higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch

anymore, put

> > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > hands down. One by one hands went down...except mine.

Eventually he

> > > > > > > asked me

> > > > > > > > > why my hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put them

down when

> > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > don't hear the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not

possible,

> > > > > > > I've

> > > > > > > > > turned off the machine " . Guess they must not have known about

tinnitus

> > > > > > > then.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Judi

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > Tracey

> > > > > > > > traceyr@

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > > > > > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --

> > > > > > Tracey

> > > > > > traceyr@

> > > > > >

> > > > > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > > > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New

Topic

> > > > > Messages in this topic (18)

> > > > > RECENT ACTIVITY: New Members 373 New Photos 2 New Files 1

> > > > > Visit Your Group

> > > > > PLEASE BE AWARE THIS IS A STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL GROUP AND NO MESSAGES

ARE TO BE USED FOR ANY PURPOSE OUTSIDE OF THE YAHOO GROUP MEMBERSHIP SITE OR

REPRODUCED OR COPIED AND MAILED FOR ANY PURPOSE.

> > > > >

> > > > > ALSO DO NOT SHARE MEMBER EMAIL ADDRESSES OR NAMES WITH ANYONE.

> > > > > Thank you. MJ

> > > > > MARKETPLACE

> > > > > How Bad is Your Score? Use this Free, Easy Way to See Your Score.

freecreditscore.com.

> > > > > Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on

- Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use

|**

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This all fits in very well with my developmental theory of misophonia.

Note the tinnitus; vertigo; otitis media; audiosensitivity; triggering of

otological symptoms by barotrauma. All these separately are indictors of ear

disease, so why then do we think we can ignore this comorbidity? Even if it

turns out to be non-causal for misophonia, it is still surely relevant.

As far as I know, swooshing tinnitus is always vascular, from arteries, veins or

cranial blood sinuses. Rhythmic tinnitus can arise from various muscles, but I

think this is always clicks. There are various rhythms in the CSF. Do you have

objective tinnitus? Can others hear your sounds? I do not think you will get

much help from anatomists or physiologists, so you may have to work this out on

your own.

I think Kat has hit on a crucial point. She had early auditory abnormalities

which she adapted to. However, they can also be misadapted to, leading to

misophonia, autism, etc.

*********************************************************************

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I

was in a

> > > > > > > > class

> > > > > > > > > > where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He

had us all

> > > > > > > > raise

> > > > > > > > > > our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and

moved it up

> > > > > > > > higher

> > > > > > > > > > and higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch

anymore, put

> > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > hands down. One by one hands went down...except mine.

Eventually he

> > > > > > > > asked me

> > > > > > > > > > why my hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put them

down when

> > > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > don't hear the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not

possible,

> > > > > > > > I've

> > > > > > > > > > turned off the machine " . Guess they must not have known

about tinnitus

> > > > > > > > then.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Judi

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > Tracey

> > > > > > > > > traceyr@

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > > > > > > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > > > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > Tracey

> > > > > > > traceyr@

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > > > > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New

Topic

> > > > > > Messages in this topic (18)

> > > > > > RECENT ACTIVITY: New Members 373 New Photos 2 New Files 1

> > > > > > Visit Your Group

> > > > > > PLEASE BE AWARE THIS IS A STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL GROUP AND NO

MESSAGES ARE TO BE USED FOR ANY PURPOSE OUTSIDE OF THE YAHOO GROUP MEMBERSHIP

SITE OR REPRODUCED OR COPIED AND MAILED FOR ANY PURPOSE.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ALSO DO NOT SHARE MEMBER EMAIL ADDRESSES OR NAMES WITH ANYONE.

> > > > > > Thank you. MJ

> > > > > > MARKETPLACE

> > > > > > How Bad is Your Score? Use this Free, Easy Way to See Your Score.

freecreditscore.com.

> > > > > > Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're

on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use

|**

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

What about those of us that have visual triggers which have nothing to do with sounds whatsoever? How would that fit into your theory?Also I wonder if one where to do a survey comparing the numbers of misophonia's comorbidity with auditory abnormalities, to the numbers of misophonia's comorbidity with neuro diagnoses, such as ocd, adhd, AS, bipolar, what the statistics would be? I suspect it would be more common to have a co morbid neuro diagnosis with this population here, because I hear a lot more about those kind of things here, than I do about auditory abnormalities. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 6:23 AMSubject: Re: Is tinnitus common with this as well

This all fits in very well with my developmental theory of misophonia.

Note the tinnitus; vertigo; otitis media; audiosensitivity; triggering of otological symptoms by barotrauma. All these separately are indictors of ear disease, so why then do we think we can ignore this comorbidity? Even if it turns out to be non-causal for misophonia, it is still surely relevant.

As far as I know, swooshing tinnitus is always vascular, from arteries, veins or cranial blood sinuses. Rhythmic tinnitus can arise from various muscles, but I think this is always clicks. There are various rhythms in the CSF. Do you have objective tinnitus? Can others hear your sounds? I do not think you will get much help from anatomists or physiologists, so you may have to work this out on your own.

I think Kat has hit on a crucial point. She had early auditory abnormalities which she adapted to. However, they can also be misadapted to, leading to misophonia, autism, etc.

*********************************************************************

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I was in a

> > > > > > > > class

> > > > > > > > > > where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He had us all

> > > > > > > > raise

> > > > > > > > > > our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and moved it up

> > > > > > > > higher

> > > > > > > > > > and higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch anymore, put

> > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > hands down. One by one hands went down...except mine. Eventually he

> > > > > > > > asked me

> > > > > > > > > > why my hand was still up. I said "we're supposed to put them down when

> > > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > don't hear the high pitch...I still hear it". He said "not possible,

> > > > > > > > I've

> > > > > > > > > > turned off the machine". Guess they must not have known about tinnitus

> > > > > > > > then.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Judi

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > Tracey

> > > > > > > > > traceyr@

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > > > > > > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > > > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > Tracey

> > > > > > > traceyr@

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > > > > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic

> > > > > > Messages in this topic (18)

> > > > > > RECENT ACTIVITY: New Members 373 New Photos 2 New Files 1

> > > > > > Visit Your Group

> > > > > > PLEASE BE AWARE THIS IS A STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL GROUP AND NO MESSAGES ARE TO BE USED FOR ANY PURPOSE OUTSIDE OF THE YAHOO GROUP MEMBERSHIP SITE OR REPRODUCED OR COPIED AND MAILED FOR ANY PURPOSE.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ALSO DO NOT SHARE MEMBER EMAIL ADDRESSES OR NAMES WITH ANYONE.

> > > > > > Thank you. MJ

> > > > > > MARKETPLACE

> > > > > > How Bad is Your Score? Use this Free, Easy Way to See Your Score. freecreditscore.com.

> > > > > > Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use |**

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I don't think we should be trying to isolate it so much --- either an auditory

abnormality OR neurological. These systems interact and have cross overs, both

in terms of initial development (as a child) and progression or adaptation as we

mature. And of course, we don't all have the same symptoms, so where do we

begin?

From a scientific perspective, isolating is necessary for measuring phenomena

and theorizing based on the data. But if we don't eventually consider

comorbidity, it's like trying to put a puzzle together with every other piece

missing.

From a personal perspective, I have generalized Sensory Processing Disorder, so

the auditory abnormality is only one piece of a larger puzzle. This suggests

that even if I had/have an auditory abnormality that contributed to misophonia,

it does not explain, for instance, my sensitivities to smell or touch.

On the other hand, all our senses were being developed at approximately the same

time. It's possible that just like a deaf person, our other senses became more

developed to compensate for auditory processing distortions. Maybe our hearing

abnormalities caused our other senses to get heightened?

And I'm thinking that many of the other diagnoses that accompany misophonia

might be a result of the bodily trauma caused by the misophonia. No body can

live in a state of fight/flight without serious repercussions.

This discussion sounds like the chicken or egg debate.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8

I was in a

> > > > > > > > > class

> > > > > > > > > > > where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound.

He had us all

> > > > > > > > > raise

> > > > > > > > > > > our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and

moved it up

> > > > > > > > > higher

> > > > > > > > > > > and higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch

anymore, put

> > > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > hands down. One by one hands went down...except mine.

Eventually he

> > > > > > > > > asked me

> > > > > > > > > > > why my hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put

them down when

> > > > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > > don't hear the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not

possible,

> > > > > > > > > I've

> > > > > > > > > > > turned off the machine " . Guess they must not have known

about tinnitus

> > > > > > > > > then.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Judi

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > > Tracey

> > > > > > > > > > traceyr@

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > > > > > > > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > > > > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > Tracey

> > > > > > > > traceyr@

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > > > > > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a

New Topic

> > > > > > > Messages in this topic (18)

> > > > > > > RECENT ACTIVITY: New Members 373 New Photos 2 New Files 1

> > > > > > > Visit Your Group

> > > > > > > PLEASE BE AWARE THIS IS A STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL GROUP AND NO

MESSAGES ARE TO BE USED FOR ANY PURPOSE OUTSIDE OF THE YAHOO GROUP MEMBERSHIP

SITE OR REPRODUCED OR COPIED AND MAILED FOR ANY PURPOSE.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ALSO DO NOT SHARE MEMBER EMAIL ADDRESSES OR NAMES WITH ANYONE.

> > > > > > > Thank you. MJ

> > > > > > > MARKETPLACE

> > > > > > > How Bad is Your Score? Use this Free, Easy Way to See Your Score.

freecreditscore.com.

> > > > > > > Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're

on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe •

Terms of Use |**

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Another question to ask here is how many of us who have tinnitus have it from

self-induced damage?

I understand that we all come at this from our own spheres of experience and our

different knowledge bases. Perhaps that's exactly why " civilians " are

invaluable sources. We're not trying to squish our symptoms into small subsets

of something already known: we are looking at our disorder as a whole.

I think " Ehlers Danlos " , Tullio phenomenon, Dysautonomia and Rumsfeld

are different and unrelated to the issue of fight- or-flight as a response to

sound which is paramount. It's the most important issue. It's a much much MUCH

stronger reflex than the response to being afraid of the monster under the bed.

With all due respect I implore all of us to not be like the medical

professionals we are familiar with who have attempted to change this disorder to

fit into something that's already known. If it could be resolved that way, it

would have been done already.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about 8 I

was in a

> > > > > > > class

> > > > > > > > > where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound. He

had us all

> > > > > > > raise

> > > > > > > > > our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch and

moved it up

> > > > > > > higher

> > > > > > > > > and higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch

anymore, put

> > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > hands down. One by one hands went down...except mine.

Eventually he

> > > > > > > asked me

> > > > > > > > > why my hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put them

down when

> > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > don't hear the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said " not

possible,

> > > > > > > I've

> > > > > > > > > turned off the machine " . Guess they must not have known about

tinnitus

> > > > > > > then.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Judi

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > Tracey

> > > > > > > > traceyr@

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > > > > > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --

> > > > > > Tracey

> > > > > > traceyr@

> > > > > >

> > > > > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > > > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New

Topic

> > > > > Messages in this topic (18)

> > > > > RECENT ACTIVITY: New Members 373 New Photos 2 New Files 1

> > > > > Visit Your Group

> > > > > PLEASE BE AWARE THIS IS A STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL GROUP AND NO MESSAGES

ARE TO BE USED FOR ANY PURPOSE OUTSIDE OF THE YAHOO GROUP MEMBERSHIP SITE OR

REPRODUCED OR COPIED AND MAILED FOR ANY PURPOSE.

> > > > >

> > > > > ALSO DO NOT SHARE MEMBER EMAIL ADDRESSES OR NAMES WITH ANYONE.

> > > > > Thank you. MJ

> > > > > MARKETPLACE

> > > > > How Bad is Your Score? Use this Free, Easy Way to See Your Score.

freecreditscore.com.

> > > > > Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on

- Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use

|**

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Talking of chickens, psychologists have run experiments on them and other young

animals, finding that the vestibular system develops first, and drives the

development of the other sensory systems. It is also heavily involved in

organising the autonomic nervous system, regulating blood pressure for example.

So while the auditory system probably does not influence other sensory systems,

the vestibular organs in the ear do.

If misophonia is a generalised (over)conditoned reaction to sound, then other

stimuli can then act as triggers. Some audiosensitive patients will rear away

when an otologist approaches them with a tuning fork before it is even struck.

Unfortunately, this is usually interpreted to mean that the person is a hopeless

neurotic, and should be seen by a psychiatrist instead.

The four comorbid conditions mentioned below as examples of neurological

conditions are in fact psychiatric diagnoses. Whilst I think it reasonable to

suppose that the brains of such patient are not working properly, I think it is

fair to say that no one has a clue as exactly what is wrong with the brains.

Even when structural brain abnormalities are found, it is far from clear that

these are the cause rather than result of the psychiatric or psychological

symptoms. Comorbidity is the rule rather than exception in psychiatry, and there

is no solid base of understanding from which one can bootstrap from known to

unknown mechanisms. In otology, by contrast, there is a solid base of

understanding which can be used as a supply depot for explaining many supposedly

psychiatric conditions (eg agoraphobia).

As for people without auditory problems on this site, it is analagous to the

situation where someone hears unexplained sounds. If they think they are coming

from their ears, they will go to an otologist, whereas if they think these are

being beamed out by the FBI, they will end up with a psychiatrist.

**********************************************************************

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I've had it pretty much all my life. When I was about

8 I was in a

> > > > > > > > > > class

> > > > > > > > > > > > where a man brought in a machine and talked about sound.

He had us all

> > > > > > > > > > raise

> > > > > > > > > > > > our hands, he turned the machine on a fair high pitch

and moved it up

> > > > > > > > > > higher

> > > > > > > > > > > > and higher telling us when we cannot hear the high pitch

anymore, put

> > > > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > > hands down. One by one hands went down...except mine.

Eventually he

> > > > > > > > > > asked me

> > > > > > > > > > > > why my hand was still up. I said " we're supposed to put

them down when

> > > > > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > > > don't hear the high pitch...I still hear it " . He said

" not possible,

> > > > > > > > > > I've

> > > > > > > > > > > > turned off the machine " . Guess they must not have known

about tinnitus

> > > > > > > > > > then.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Just wondered whether there might be a connection.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Judi

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > > > Tracey

> > > > > > > > > > > traceyr@

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > > > > > > > > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > > Tracey

> > > > > > > > > traceyr@

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > http://www.teachingleaninc.com

> > > > > > > > > (My Lean Blog) http://thetoyotagal.blogspot.com/

> > > > > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/traceyrichardson

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a

New Topic

> > > > > > > > Messages in this topic (18)

> > > > > > > > RECENT ACTIVITY: New Members 373 New Photos 2 New Files 1

> > > > > > > > Visit Your Group

> > > > > > > > PLEASE BE AWARE THIS IS A STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL GROUP AND NO

MESSAGES ARE TO BE USED FOR ANY PURPOSE OUTSIDE OF THE YAHOO GROUP MEMBERSHIP

SITE OR REPRODUCED OR COPIED AND MAILED FOR ANY PURPOSE.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ALSO DO NOT SHARE MEMBER EMAIL ADDRESSES OR NAMES WITH ANYONE.

> > > > > > > > Thank you. MJ

> > > > > > > > MARKETPLACE

> > > > > > > > How Bad is Your Score? Use this Free, Easy Way to See Your

Score. freecreditscore.com.

> > > > > > > > Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page

you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe •

Terms of Use |**

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>