RE: Need advice

[Guest guest]

Tammy:

For clarification, when you write that " Our company has been asked

by a very large company to submit all of our finished products for

evaluation to their R & D department, " what exactly do you mean? For

what purpose? Are they looking to sell your product, or do they

want to purchase your products to sell under their own brand?

A little more information is required before an appropriate answer

could be given...

> Our company has been asked by a very large company to submit all

of our

> finished products for evaluation to their R & D department. I have

been

> " warned " that this company might steal our seven years of hard

work -

> because they can. Can anyone recommend a site that we can get a

legal

> document from that will keep us protected? Our formulas really

work and

> really do deliver incredible results! We don't want to be " stupid "

and not

> protect ourselves at this point in time! Any assistance will be

greatly

> appreciated!

>

> God Bless,

>

> Tammy D.

>

> The Mud Queen

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't understand the need for your company to submit to their

request. Can you eloborate?

Anita

> Our company has been asked by a very large company to submit all of our

> finished products for evaluation to their R & D department. I have been

> " warned " that this company might steal our seven years of hard work -

> because they can. Can anyone recommend a site that we can get a legal

> document from that will keep us protected? Our formulas really work and

> really do deliver incredible results! We don't want to be " stupid " and not

> protect ourselves at this point in time! Any assistance will be greatly

> appreciated!

>

> God Bless,

>

> Tammy D.

>

> The Mud Queen

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Our company has two divisions, Dead Sea Bulk Materials where we provide

salon quality raw materials into the various industries. With over 40,000

pounds of these raw materials at my fingertips I began formulating high end

prestige products to meet my own skin care nightmares in our retail line

called " Totally Pamper Me! " R. The results for me, friends, family &

clientele have been absolutely phenomenal over the years!

I brought many of our raw materials to the R & D person of this company. He

took one look at my skin and listened to my passion and now wants to

evaluate our entire product line as well as our raw materials. As all of us

know, it's hard to look at a bag of mud and get " creative " when we don't

understand the value of the mud. I do understand the incredible value in all

of our materials as well as the product line I have formulated. I have as

recently as yesterday been told this particular company steals ideas from

the small formulator. I may be from the South, but I didn't fall off the

turnip truck yesterday! (I say that with love, ya'll!)

I need to protect my hard work and need to learn how to before I jump in

with both feet. I've watched some wonderful advice go through this forum,

that's why I'm asking. Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

God Bless,

Tammy Doering

The Mud Queen

_____

From: Cosmeticinfo [mailto:Cosmeticinfo ] On

Behalf Of gmliii

Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 8:30 PM

To: Cosmeticinfo

Subject: Re: Need advice

Tammy:

For clarification, when you write that " Our company has been asked

by a very large company to submit all of our finished products for

evaluation to their R & D department, " what exactly do you mean? For

what purpose? Are they looking to sell your product, or do they

want to purchase your products to sell under their own brand?

A little more information is required before an appropriate answer

could be given...

[Guest guest]

Hi Tammy:

Thanks for the clarification. However, I am still a little unclear as

to why this large company wants access to your final products. It

seems as if you approached the large company to sell raw materials.

Since I presume that this large company is – when you boil it

down – a competitor of your company (at least as concerns your

high end products division), I am still curious as to the purpose of

them wanting to " evaluate " your product line.

If it has its own product line and it's not looking to outsource

the manufacture of its products to you, I am having a hard time

conceiving of why it would have any business " evaluating "

your products.

It is also troubling that the R & D group is looking for this –

rather than the marketing group, the licensing group or some other

external relations group. R & D does the research and manufacturing

– not the deals with third parties. This makes me quite

suspicious.

Did the R & D group indicate the purpose in wanting to evaluate your

products? Are they looking to have your contract manufacture products

for them? Do they want to buy your final formulations in bulk and

re-brand them under their own trademark? Are they looking to hire

you? To put the question another way, what benefit do you receive

(what benefit are you anticipating receiving) by providing them with

samples?

Given that, based on the information you have provided, the big

company still appears to be your competition, I am wary of the request

to evaluate your products. Undoubtedly, this company has the

capability to reverse engineer your products to make a very good

guestimate at your formula and process.

Absent some justifiable reason to want to " evaluate " your

products (again, I ask " evaluate for what? " ), I would not

give it to

them.

Moreover, if your products (Totally Pamper Me) are commercially

available, this company could certainly purchase samples at retail to

conduct its evaluation.

It's also curious that, based on your post, the R & D groups has

asked for samples of your raw materials AND your final products.

Given the information you have received about this business's

practices, they may be stringing you along (with the carrot being the

potential to source this company's raw materials), and tying the

possibility of being its supplier to providing your final product to

them. Perhaps even with no intention of purchasing raw materials from

you - ever. In essence, this company could be creating hope that you

could be its raw material supplier only to obtain your products to

copy.

Based on the information you have provided, I would absolutely not

provide this company with samples of your product line, at this time.

That being said, if there is in fact some legitimate basis for the

request, I would not provide them with any products before this

company signs a non-disclosure agreement with you that defines the

very limited things it may do with the samples, absolutely forbids

reverse engineering, and makes them agree not to reverse engineer any

of your products it may acquire commercially.

In sum, based on the information you have provided, I would be very

cautious moving forward with this company. Moreover, I would not give

them any samples for any reason (even an apparently legitimate one)

without a non-disclosure/confidentiality agreement in place.

I hope that helps.

If you have additional information, I would be curious to learn of it.

> Our company has two divisions, Dead Sea Bulk Materials where we

provide

> salon quality raw materials into the various industries. With over

40,000

> pounds of these raw materials at my fingertips I began formulating

high end

> prestige products to meet my own skin care nightmares in our retail

line

> called " Totally Pamper Me! " R. The results for me, friends, family &

> clientele have been absolutely phenomenal over the years!

>

>

>

> I brought many of our raw materials to the R & D person of this

company. He

> took one look at my skin and listened to my passion and now wants to

> evaluate our entire product line as well as our raw materials. As

all of us

> know, it's hard to look at a bag of mud and get " creative " when we

don't

> understand the value of the mud. I do understand the incredible

value in all

> of our materials as well as the product line I have formulated. I

have as

> recently as yesterday been told this particular company steals ideas

from

> the small formulator. I may be from the South, but I didn't fall

off the

> turnip truck yesterday! (I say that with love, ya'll!)

>

>

>

> I need to protect my hard work and need to learn how to before I

jump in

> with both feet. I've watched some wonderful advice go through this

forum,

> that's why I'm asking. Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

>

> God Bless,

>

> Tammy Doering

>

> The Mud Queen

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: Cosmeticinfo

[mailto:Cosmeticinfo ] On

> Behalf Of gmliii

> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 8:30 PM

> To: Cosmeticinfo

> Subject: Re: Need advice

>

>

>

> Tammy:

>

> For clarification, when you write that " Our company has been asked

> by a very large company to submit all of our finished products for

> evaluation to their R & D department, " what exactly do you mean? For

> what purpose? Are they looking to sell your product, or do they

> want to purchase your products to sell under their own brand?

>

> A little more information is required before an appropriate answer

> could be given...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your input on this situation. We have obtained a

non-disclosure/confidentiality agreement and are going to put it in the box

with our raw ingredients. If they are truly interested in our formulas, they

will sign it and send it back to us. If it does come back with proper

signatures and notarized, we'll move forward.

I just got so excited about the possibilities and needed to stop and think

about it before jumping in. I have such a passion for what I do, that I have

a tendency to FIRE, FIRE, FIRE! In this case, it could have " Back-Fired " on

me!

Thanks so much for taking the time to help! I pray God's richest blessings

on you & yours!

Tammy D.

The Mud Queen

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/30/2005 10:59:05 AM Pacific Standard Time,

gfryer@... writes:

> I would NEVER send them my raw ingredients

Never, would I send someone samples of my raw ingredients or give them the

names of my suppliers. This would be a good way to have your product

duplicated. I have followed this thread closely. While I am not very big, I

sure

wouldn't give them the raw products or my suppliers. Quickest way I know to put

yourself out of business.

There have been many, far more experienced than I, telling you the same

thing. " Protect " yourself and your products. Once you have given them all your

info, your hard work just got " flushed down the drain " like others before you.

Sorry to be so blunt, but you, like so many of us, have worked darn hard at

our products and I wouldn't be so willing to hand it over without lots of

protection.

Aquila Ranch

[Guest guest]

Much thanks as well as hugs to all of you that have opened my eyes! We are

not going to send them anything. We'll just evaporate into the world. I

really know how beneficial our ingredients are and wanted to reach others.

We've seen psoriasis, eczema, rosacea, scalp disorders, wrinkles, crow's

feet, pickle pucker around the mouth & skin tags literally disappear! It's

such a shame that the " big guys " are only about the money. I'll just keep on

working and teaching in the smaller arena where it does make a difference.

Thanks again!

Tammy D.

The Mud QueenTM

_____

From: Cosmeticinfo [mailto:Cosmeticinfo ] On

Behalf Of wolfsoap@...

Never, would I send someone samples of my raw ingredients or give them the

names of my suppliers. This would be a good way to have your product

duplicated. I have followed this thread closely. While I am not very big,

I sure

wouldn't give them the raw products or my suppliers. Quickest way I know to

put

yourself out of business.

There have been many, far more experienced than I, telling you the same

thing. " Protect " yourself and your products. Once you have given them all

your

info, your hard work just got " flushed down the drain " like others before

you.

Sorry to be so blunt, but you, like so many of us, have worked darn hard at

our products and I wouldn't be so willing to hand it over without lots of

protection.

Aquila Ranch

[Guest guest]

Gillian Fryer wrote:

> Same

>with copyright on your recipes -- they must be something totally

>original and not something someone else could create on their own.

>

It's my understanding that recipes per se can't be copyrighted at ALL---

you can copyright the directions, but not the ingredient list.

>

>At this point, I really would suggest you seek competent legal council.

>

>

I strongly concur.

~Olga

[Guest guest]

Olga-

Though I'm not 100% certain, I am 98.9% certain that you are correct -

you cannot protect a recipe or formulation by copyright. That

explains why you can buy knock-off designer fragrances on city street

corners and the internet, and there is nothing the actual fragrance

maker can do about it.

That is why it is important not to divulge formulations unnecessarily.

They are protected as " trade secrets " rather than as copyrights.

This is also why it is vitally important to secure non-disclosure

agreements before supplying anyone with your proprietary trade

secrets. If you voluntarily or knowingly give up a trade secret (such

as a formulation), you have automatically lost your rights in that

trade secret.

Of course, stealing a trade secret is another story entirely.

>

> > Same

> >with copyright on your recipes -- they must be something totally

> >original and not something someone else could create on their own.

> >

>

> It's my understanding that recipes per se can't be copyrighted at

ALL---

> you can copyright the directions, but not the ingredient list.

>

> >

> >At this point, I really would suggest you seek competent legal

council.

> >

> >

>

> I strongly concur.

>

> ~Olga

[Guest guest]

It's so lonely to live in a single dorm while you are a freshman. I wouldn't advise it even with having misophonia. Get headphones/earplugs, spend a lot of time out of the room if your roommate ends up causing trigger sounds for you. You may get lucky and have a wonderful roommate who is either understanding or isn't annoying with sounds. Think positive..To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2011 8:31 PMSubject: Need Advice

Hello,

In less than a year I will be going off to college and I need advice. I want the full college experience but I have been dreading the possibility of a roomate for a while. I would probably go insane if I have to live in a tiny dorm with someone, especially if the way they eat or behave is a trigger for me. I'm not sure if the university I plan to go to have single dorms but it is probably highly unlikely to even get one since I'd be a freshman. I'm not sure what plan of action I should take and my parents don't understand this disorder at all so I don't really have anyone else to express my concern to.

Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Congrats ! You are smart to think ahead about this.

I agree with the others: earplugs and plan on spending lots of time in the library/study room. Your grades will be all the better for it.

That's what got me through! Otherwise enjoy your new friends!

Corey

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, November 3, 2011 5:31:41 PMSubject: Need Advice

Hello, In less than a year I will be going off to college and I need advice. I want the full college experience but I have been dreading the possibility of a roomate for a while. I would probably go insane if I have to live in a tiny dorm with someone, especially if the way they eat or behave is a trigger for me. I'm not sure if the university I plan to go to have single dorms but it is probably highly unlikely to even get one since I'd be a freshman. I'm not sure what plan of action I should take and my parents don't understand this disorder at all so I don't really have anyone else to express my concern to.Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Thanks all for the advice! I am rushing and signed to swim on the college team,

so hopefully I am otherwise too busy to focus on that problem.

Thanks again! It means a lot.

Sent from my iPhone

[Guest guest]

Many colleges have a "quiet" dorm building, where people with medical conditions or those that want to study without too much interruption can live. I would suggest picking a college and applying early so that you will have first choice of those types of dorms. Be careful what you wish for with the full college experience. My kids found that unless you are a partier, or really luck out with a roommate, college dorm living can be a challenge. To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity >Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2011 9:03 PMSubject: Re: Need Advice

It's so lonely to live in a single dorm while you are a freshman. I wouldn't advise it even with having misophonia. Get headphones/earplugs, spend a lot of time out of the room if your roommate ends up causing trigger sounds for you. You may get lucky and have a wonderful roommate who is either understanding or isn't annoying with sounds. Think positive..To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2011 8:31 PMSubject: Need Advice

Hello,

In less than a year I will be going off to college and I need advice. I want the full college experience but I have been dreading the possibility of a roomate for a while. I would probably go insane if I have to live in a tiny dorm with someone, especially if the way they eat or behave is a trigger for me. I'm not sure if the university I plan to go to have single dorms but it is probably highly unlikely to even get one since I'd be a freshman. I'm not sure what plan of action I should take and my parents don't understand this disorder at all so I don't really have anyone else to express my concern to.

Thanks!