RE: Having a hard time accepting this particular thought

[Guest guest]

Regardless of your beliefs about what a thought can or can't do, if

you don't learn to allow an " unacceptable " thought it will occur more

often so any harm you believe it can do would be greater.

[Guest guest]

thoughts like that can have power over those who over identify with them and

take them seriously...but this is actually a great opportunity to allow yourself

to see how how truly powerless thoughts are if you just allow them to be...

you can start by wishing you won the lottery, and see what kind of fruit that

bears

you have thousands of thoughts a day that go in and out of your awareness with

ease...but this one sounds real bad and ugly so it's got your attention...but in

reality, this thought is no more powerful than any of the aforementioned

allowing yourself to have certain thoughts that nag you is actually a method of

defusing

>

> Hi,

>

> I am new here, sorry about spamming!

>

> Today I got very angry with someone I love, and, trying to be mindful of my

thoughts, it occurred to me that I was resisting pervasive thoughts of wishing

death to this person. Now, is it OK to accept this kind of a thought?

>

> The problem I have with this concept is, it's my personal belief that thoughts

like this can have power and can impact people in very tangible ways. That is, I

believe in evil eye. Please don't laugh! So what do I do?? Do I have to change

my belief system in order for ACT to be applicable to me?

>

> Thanks

>

[Guest guest]

ACT suggests you defuse from thoughts that are not useful in living a valued life. Acceptance is more for physical feelings that we cannot defuse from quite so readily. Acceptance and defusion are the two components of LETTING GO, stopping the struggle. So, in the case of the thought that you wish this person were dead, recognize that as an unuseful thought. Many defusion exercises are about making light of the thought. All ACT books have exercises for defusion. I assume you have an ACT book.

Bill.

> To: ACT_for_the_Public > Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 05:12:17 +0000> Subject: Having a hard time accepting this particular thought> > Hi,> > I am new here, sorry about spamming! > > Today I got very angry with someone I love, and, trying to be mindful of my thoughts, it occurred to me that I was resisting pervasive thoughts of wishing death to this person. Now, is it OK to accept this kind of a thought?> > The problem I have with this concept is, it's my personal belief that thoughts like this can have power and can impact people in very tangible ways. That is, I believe in evil eye. Please don't laugh! So what do I do?? Do I have to change my belief system in order for ACT to be applicable to me?> > Thanks> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsychology.org> > If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may > unsubscribe by sending an email to > ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links> > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/> > <*> Your email settings:> Individual Email | Traditional> > <*> To change settings online go to:> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join> (Yahoo! ID required)> > <*> To change settings via email:> ACT_for_the_Public-digest > ACT_for_the_Public-fullfeatured > > <*>

[Guest guest]

I assume your primary concern is that you believe in the evil eye and thus, you fear that wishing death to this person really does have the power to actually harm or kill this person. That must make you feel terrible, since you believe that you are actually capable of harming this person with your thoughts.

Maybe you can realize that you are not actually in control of the thoughts that come into your head. Nor are you in control of the outcome of those thoughts, even it you believe that they might harm others. All you can control is how you feel about having these thoughts. So if you feel guilty or horrible or like a bad person, that is the only stuff you can deal with. You are not a horrible or bad person just for having the thoughts; your thoughts are perfectly normal. I cannot tell you how many times I have wished certain people dead in my mind, only to go on a guilt trip afterward. You don't have to change your belief system; you just need to recognize that your thoughts are what they are and pop into your head at will, even if you don't want them to, and even it you believe they have a lot of power. So just watch them come and go, like so many leaves floating on a stream.

I'm not going to take issue with you for believing your thoughts alone have the power to hurt others; that could be a deeply embedded cultural belief. However, if that belief is not culturally or religiously grounded for you (or even if it is), perhaps you could allow your mind to examine that belief in terms of its usefulness to you in living a valued life.

Would you tell us more about the origin of this belief so we can better understand where you are coming from?

Helena

> To: ACT_for_the_Public > From: asdfasdf87gmail> Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 05:12:17 +0000> Subject: Having a hard time accepting this particular thought> > Hi,> > I am new here, sorry about spamming! > > Today I got very angry with someone I love, and, trying to be mindful of my thoughts, it occurred to me that I was resisting pervasive thoughts of wishing death to this person. Now, is it OK to accept this kind of a thought?> > The problem I have with this concept is, it's my personal belief that thoughts like this can have power and can impact people in very tangible ways. That is, I believe in evil eye. Please don't laugh! So what do I do?? Do I have to change my belief system in order for ACT to be applicable to me?> > Thanks> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsychology.org> > If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may > unsubscribe by sending an email to > ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe

[Guest guest]

> Would you tell us more about the origin of this belief so we can better

understand where you are coming from?

>

I am not sure this is a productive exercise. Yes, I think it's very deeply

culturally ingrained in many cultures (Eastern European, Middle Eastern,

African, and our, Jewish). If you don't believe it, good for you! Seriously, it

might mean it won't work on you. Billions of people do believe those things.

I am not very comfortable with sharing very personal stuff right off the get

go, but since you asked.. here is the story.

When I was 9, my aunt (father's sister) had cancer in her left breast. She asked

her husband, a very good handyman, to hand-make three big, incredibly sharp

knives, and gifted one to my mother, another to her best friend, and third to my

future mother-in-law (a story in its own right). Now, gifting knives is a huge

no-no in our culture, precisely because if the giver happens to have any ill

thought, conscious or not, it's easy to " stick " .

Here is what followed. The aunt's best friend died of cancer of left breast soon

after. The mother-in-law had a benign tumor in her left breast. My mother had

been diagnosed of cancer of left breast at an advanced stage, the doctors

thought it was terminal; no one believed there was hope.

At one point, my mother got into a fight with Dad and threw the knife off the

4th story window, saying " If nothing bad came with this knife, noting will

happen; otherwise, it's going right back where it came from " . She's been later

told she did precisely the right thing. The aunt died of breast cancer within

months, and my mother lived 26 more years.

Like I said, if you believe in coincidences, good for you! I am a math major,

and can estimate the statistical probability of this coincidence, multiplied by

all other coincidences I've witnessed in my life.

Another part of the story was, my father's mother opposed the marriage and

cursed my mother. When she found out my mother had cancer, she was jubilant and

told everyone around her: " See, a mother's curse always works. I cursed her, and

now she is dying, and my son will soon be free to marry this rich girl " .

Unbelievable, but that's a fact.. when I was an adult, I met people who knew her

and heard all of that from them, independently and on their own accord, without

me ever asking.

Now, at the time I was 9, and the family was doing their best shielding me from

all this. The word " cancer " was never mentioned, I did not even know what it

was. The " grandmother " was not a part of my life, she lived thousands of miles

away, I only saw her once when I was 3. How was I able to connect the dots and

make a very precise picture of what is going on in beyond me, but yes, I knew,

without ever talking to anybody about it, that a shapeless, nameless thing is

killing my mother and is coming from that evil witch of a grandmother. In my

mind I was the only one able to do something about it, because I had her genes

(almost 50% of them, because she was married to her cousin), and was the only

one in the world powerful enough to stand up to her. We lived in a 9 story

house, and I spent days building and maintaining these huge imaginary

9-story-high shiny bronze paraboloids (a.k.a. satellite dishes). Paraboloids are

able to transform a parallel stream of waves into a dot at their focus, and vice

versa. I was telling myself that if I was wrong, they will do nothing, but if

any bad thought is coming from that direction, it will all reflect back

amplified 1000-fold and tear her apart from the inside. A little violation of

physics here, but does not matter, it's the thought that counts, whatever props

help you meditate.

I do still believe that any other person would have been dead from the intensity

of my meditation, but that Grandmother figure was widely known as a " tank " ; she

lived many more years. But so did my mother! Every doctor considered it a

miracle. Their jaws dropped when they saw it: " You are alive????!!!! " The cancer

never went away, it migrated from spot to spot and eventually killed her. During

those 26 very painful years, whenever she went to a doctor, the doctor would

panic, diagnose her with a terminal illness, give her a month to live and

insisted on an emergency surgery; so she stopped going to doctors altogether.

She did not do chemo either, after seeing what the first round did to her; she

did try every alternative treatment in the books, from ancient pre-Christian

ones to some high-tech ones leaked by friends from the military; so maybe her

miraculous survival had nothing to do with my childhood efforts after all!

Ever since childhood, I avoid looking vulnerable people in the eye, especially

at moments of anger. I habitually focus my eyesight a few inches in front of

their nose. When I am angry, I release energy at a cat (their energy is the

opposite of ours, it can not hurt it), or at a tree, or cold water.

So when I momentarily wish death to someone I love, someone very young and

vulnerable, I care about that!

One new idea I've learned from this experience is, it's not " thoughts " that

matter IMHO, it's the emotions. So if I can be emotionless about having this

thought, the thought alone ought to be harmless.

Is this a bit too much for an intoduction? :-)

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I assume your primary concern is that you believe in the evil eye and thus,

you fear that wishing death to this person really does have the  power to

actually harm or kill this person.  That must make you feel terrible, since

you believe that you are actually capable of harming this person with your

thoughts.

>

> Maybe you can realize that you are not actually in control of the thoughts

that come into your head.  Nor are you in control of the outcome of those

thoughts, even it you believe that they might harm others.  All you can control

is how you feel about having these thoughts.  So if you feel guilty or horrible

or like a bad person, that is the only stuff you can deal with.  You are not a

horrible or bad person just for having the thoughts; your thoughts are perfectly

normal. I cannot tell you how many times I have wished certain people dead in

my mind, only to go on a guilt trip afterward.  You don't have to change your

belief system; you just need to recognize that your thoughts are what they are

and pop into your head at will, even if you don't want them to, and even it you

believe they have a lot of power.  So just watch them come and go, like so

many leaves floating on a stream.

>

> I'm not going to take issue with you for believing your thoughts alone

 have the power to hurt others; that could  be a deeply embedded cultural

belief.  However, if that belief is not culturally or religiously grounded

for you (or even if it is), perhaps you could allow your mind to examine  that

belief in terms of its usefulness to you in living a valued life.

>

> Would you tell us more about the origin of this belief so we can better

understand where you are coming from?

>

> Helena

>

>

> > To: ACT_for_the_Public@ yahoogroups .com

> > From: asdfasdf87@ gmail .com

> > Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 05:12:17 +0000

> > Subject: Having a hard time accepting this particular

thought

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > I am new here, sorry about spamming!

> >

> > Today I got very angry with someone I love, and, trying to be mindful of my

thoughts, it occurred to me that I was resisting pervasive thoughts of wishing

death to this person. Now, is it OK to accept this kind of a thought?

> >

> > The problem I have with this concept is, it's my personal belief that

thoughts like this can have power and can impact people in very tangible ways.

That is, I believe in evil eye. Please don't laugh! So what do I do?? Do I have

to change my belief system in order for ACT to be applicable to me?

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > For other ACT materials and list serves see www . contextualpsychology .org

> >

> > If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may

> > unsubscribe by sending an email to

> > ACT_for_the_Public- unsubscribe @ yahoogroups . comYahoo ! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill,

Thank you for your letter.

I admit I am an ACT noob, still at Chapter 4 of Get Out of Your Mind, so perhaps

I should not be posting here yet; but it seems *so far* that the book takes a

somewhat different approach from what you described.

P. 45: " In our context, the word willingness and acceptance mean to respond

actively to your feelings by feeling them, literally, much as you might reach

out and literally feel the texture of a cashmere sweater. They mean to respond

actively to your thoughts by thinking them, much as you might read poetry just

to get the flow of their words, or an actor might rehearse lines to get a feel

for the playwright's intent " .

" We use the word " Willing " as a synonym for " accepting " .

P. 46, " why willingness? " lists: physical pain, physical trauma, disease and

disability, but also anxiety, childhood abuse and trauma, job performance,

substance abuse and depression.

Granted, it says nothing about diffusing just yet; is diffusing the opposite of

accepting or willingness? (Not asking for a very detailed explanation; I'll RTFM

about it soon enough I am sure). :-)

>

>

> ACT suggests you defuse from thoughts that are not useful in living a valued

life. Acceptance is more for physical feelings that we cannot defuse from quite

so readily. Acceptance and defusion are the two components of LETTING GO,

stopping the struggle. So, in the case of the thought that you wish this person

were dead, recognize that as an unuseful thought. Many defusion exercises are

about making light of the thought. All ACT books have exercises for defusion. I

assume you have an ACT book.

>

> Bill

> .

> > To: ACT_for_the_Public

> > From: asdfasdf87@...

> > Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 05:12:17 +0000

> > Subject: Having a hard time accepting this particular

thought

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > I am new here, sorry about spamming!

> >

> > Today I got very angry with someone I love, and, trying to be mindful of my

thoughts, it occurred to me that I was resisting pervasive thoughts of wishing

death to this person. Now, is it OK to accept this kind of a thought?

> >

> > The problem I have with this concept is, it's my personal belief that

thoughts like this can have power and can impact people in very tangible ways.

That is, I believe in evil eye. Please don't laugh! So what do I do?? Do I have

to change my belief system in order for ACT to be applicable to me?

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsychology.org

> >

> > If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may

> > unsubscribe by sending an email to

> > ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

>