Re: How deep do we go?

[Guest guest]

If he is a gay man, please let him know that the "prostate cancer and gay men" online support group is quite open to in depth sexual technique discussion, as long as it is related to prostate cancer and the collateral damage from treatment. He can subscribe directly from the Malecare support group webpage at http://malecare.com/support_groups.htm As for straight sex discussion, I think that most posters are correct to suggest that some on this list might find frank sexual discussion offensive. Perhaps we can play it by ear. If the "sexual content" of the posting is highlighted in the subject heading, then readers have the option of reading or deleting. Darryl

[Guest guest]

If he is a gay man, please let him know that the "prostate cancer and gay men" online support group is quite open to in depth sexual technique discussion, as long as it is related to prostate cancer and the collateral damage from treatment. He can subscribe directly from the Malecare support group webpage at http://malecare.com/support_groups.htm As for straight sex discussion, I think that most posters are correct to suggest that some on this list might find frank sexual discussion offensive. Perhaps we can play it by ear. If the "sexual content" of the posting is highlighted in the subject heading, then readers have the option of reading or deleting. Darryl

[Guest guest]

If he is a gay man, please let him know that the "prostate cancer and gay men" online support group is quite open to in depth sexual technique discussion, as long as it is related to prostate cancer and the collateral damage from treatment. He can subscribe directly from the Malecare support group webpage at http://malecare.com/support_groups.htm As for straight sex discussion, I think that most posters are correct to suggest that some on this list might find frank sexual discussion offensive. Perhaps we can play it by ear. If the "sexual content" of the posting is highlighted in the subject heading, then readers have the option of reading or deleting. Darryl

[Guest guest]

Apologies for the multiple postings of this messege. Obviously I and/or AOL got too excited. Darryl

[Guest guest]

There is a list on prostatepointers, PCAI where these issues can be discussed openly. Not everyone feels comfortable with the subject. If he is interested go to http://www.prostatepointers.org/mlist/mlist.html

Kathy

How deep do we go?

I was pleased that we had a constuctive debate about the effects of PCa and it's treatment on relationships. the debate was conducted with decorum and understanding.

I have been approached by a member who seems to want to go into the deeper depths of sexual techniques. My initial opinion is that this is not the place for this. Am I wrong?

[Guest guest]

Look at the Yahoo group Intimacy After RP. Bob

--- Metcalf wrote:

> I was pleased that we had a constuctive debate about

> the effects of PCa and it's treatment on

> relationships. the debate was conducted with decorum

> and understanding.

>

> I have been approached by a member who seems to want

> to go into the deeper depths of sexual techniques.

> My initial opinion is that this is not the place for

> this. Am I wrong?

>

>

>

__________________________________

Yahoo! Mail Mobile

Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail

[Guest guest]

--- Kathy Meade wrote:

> There is a list on prostatepointers, PCAI where these issues can be

> discussed openly. Not everyone feels comfortable with the subject. If he

> is interested go to http://www.prostatepointers.org/mlist/mlist.html

>

> Kathy>

I pretty much agree with Kathy - though sometimes a brief excursion into the

area comes up. I

don't mind sharing a current situation and why it is so, but I would not be

comfortable with a

full court discussion on the subject.

.

[Guest guest]

I was pleased that we had a constuctive debate about the effects of PCa and it's treatment on relationships. the debate was conducted with decorum and understanding.

I have been approached by a member who seems to want to go into the deeper depths of sexual techniques. My initial opinion is that this is not the place for this. Am I wrong?

Hi ,

We have a Prostate Cancer And Intimacy (PCAI) list where a lot of

sexual problems are discussed.

PCAI is a mailing list for frank and open discussion of the sexual issues surrounding PCa. To subscribe, go to:http://www.prostatepointers.org/mailman/listinfo/pcai

I wish you all the bestAubrey Pilgrim, DC (Ret.)Author of A Revolutionary Approach to Prostate Cancer-Read the original book for free at: www.prostatepointers.org/prostate/lay/apilgrimRead the new edition for free at:www.prostate-help.org/cabooks.htmDr. E. Crawford is co-author of the revision

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Sorry but I do think that in this instance you are wrong.

I believe that trying to shut sex away in a cupboard is in any case a dangerous practice, and particularly so in the context of our group.

We talk very openly about murder and violent crimes which are only destructive. We are trying to be constructive for our fellow members so surely we should discuss what has become one of the most important aspects of our lives, openly and frankly.

Larry

[Guest guest]

As one of the participants in the conversation on this subject, I think the pointers of other places to find information is enough for me. I don't want to become uncomfortable here.

Dale's 90 days off on disability to try and get the pain under control starts tomorrow. This is such a blessing since he is a machinist who stands all day on a concrete floor.

I saw my doctor yesterday and for the first time in months I couldn't get the words out to tell him of Dale's diagnosis. When I finally did, he was wonderful. We are trying Paxil to treat my depression. Peace on the journey,Juel captwildchild@...************************************If you are going through hell, keep going. --Winston Churchill

Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news more. Check it out!

[Guest guest]

I agree that nobody should be forced into a discussion

that makes them feel uncomfortable. However, there

are many aspects of PC that make all of us

uncomfortable.

One of the facts of life we have to confront and deal

with is erectile dysfunction, how best to deal with

that and how it impacts our relationships, sexual and

otherwise to include depression. Some may think their

problems in this area are unique and not know that

others are going thru the same thing. I respect the

apparent majority opinion of this group not to discuss

this in depth here. I am of the minority opinion that

we shouldn't be in denial of the facts. Fortunately,

we know there are other sites that do address this for

those who are interested. Bob

--------------

> Discover Yahoo!

> Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news &

> more. Check it out!

Yahoo! Mail

Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:

http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

[Guest guest]

Thanks to all who have replied.

Just to say that the group have talked about ED and the options available for dealing with it. I for one would be happy that this continued.

What I was talking about is the kind of language that could be termed titilating, explicit maybe to some erotic. The worry about this is that those reading will think, rightly or wrongly, that it is being written to shock.

This is why I titled it how deep. We can have a reasoned discussion without talking steet talk names for ladies who get paid for certain services or techniques of foreplay etc. This is the type of language that worried me.

Best wishes

[Guest guest]

I do not see us shutting sex away in a cupboard. I see us having a reasonable discussion about the frustrations of this disease. However, I don't want this to be a place where techniques are given. I am far from a prude. But there is a place for everything and this has not felt like the place for that. As I said there were pointers to other groups, and I joined one of them. Then I can decide if it is for me or not. Peace on the journey,Juel captwildchild@...************************************If you are going through hell, keep going. --Winston Churchill

Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM more. Check it out!

[Guest guest]

There is another site that is for intimacy.....intimacy after prostate

cancer its at yahoo too. Very Good site for information on " toys " " pumps "

etc. s Group is EXCELLENT for knowledge-- Sharing and very

informative. Keep it going

<html><div><FONT face= " Lucida Handwriting, Cursive " size=3><EM>Brad<IMG

height=19 src= " http://graphics.hotmail.com/i.p.emthup.gif "

width=19></EM></FONT></div></html>

<br><br><br> & gt;From: captwildchild

& lt;captwildchild@... & gt;<br> & gt;Reply-To:

ProstateCancerSupport <br> & gt;To:

ProstateCancerSupport <br> & gt;Subject: Re:

How deep do we go?<br> & gt;Date: Tue, 10 May 2005

13:36:48 -0700 (PDT)<br> & gt;<br> & gt;<br> & gt;I do not see us shutting sex

away in a cupboard. I see us having a reasonable discussion about the

frustrations of this disease. However, I don't want this to be a place where

techniques are given. I am far from a prude. But there is a place for

everything and this has not felt like the place for that. As I said there

were pointers to other groups, and I joined one of them. Then I can decide

if it is for me or not.<br> & gt;<br> & gt;Peace on the

journey,<br> & gt;Juel<br> & gt;captwildchild@...<br> & gt;****************\

********************<br> & gt;If

you are going through hell, keep going. --Winston

Churchill<br> & gt;<br> & gt;---------------------------------<br> & gt;Discover

Yahoo!<br> & gt; Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & amp;

more. Check it out!<br>T

[Guest guest]

We have been having great in depth discussions of what sex is like

after prostate cancer and how to acheive erections (shots, pump and

so on) You are all welcome to visit our group and check out the

recent messages. It is very informative.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Intimacy_after_prostate_cancer

Also one of the ladies started a support group just for the spouses

where we feel free to really let our hair down.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prostate_Cancer_Spouse_Support

Barb

> There is a list on prostatepointers, PCAI where these issues can be

> discussed openly. Not everyone feels comfortable with the subject.

If he

> is interested go to

http://www.prostatepointers.org/mlist/mlist.html

>

> Kathy

>

> How deep do we go?

>

>

> I was pleased that we had a constuctive debate about the effects

of PCa

> and it's treatment on relationships. the debate was conducted with

> decorum and understanding.

>

> I have been approached by a member who seems to want to go into the

> deeper depths of sexual techniques. My initial opinion is that

this is

> not the place for this. Am I wrong?

>

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

>

[Guest guest]

I disagree that we have been having great in depth discussions of

what sex is like after prostate cancer. Many comments have been

censored and members (primarily female members) have said that they

have been offended by some of the remarks. I notice that women have

their own group which excludes men. Does anyone know of a group

where men with prostate cancer are free to say what they want to say

without women being able to restrict and inhibit the discussion?

> > There is a list on prostatepointers, PCAI where these issues can

be

> > discussed openly. Not everyone feels comfortable with the

subject.

> If he

> > is interested go to

> http://www.prostatepointers.org/mlist/mlist.html

> >

> > Kathy

> >

> > How deep do we go?

> >

> >

> > I was pleased that we had a constuctive debate about the effects

> of PCa

> > and it's treatment on relationships. the debate was conducted

with

> > decorum and understanding.

> >

> > I have been approached by a member who seems to want to go into

the

> > deeper depths of sexual techniques. My initial opinion is that

> this is

> > not the place for this. Am I wrong?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I agree. Men should be able to say whatever they please on their own

board without worrying about female sensitivity. We dont blast their

boards such as ivillage.com. This is raw cyberspace, not a parlor

room with tea and crackers.

> I disagree that we have been having great in depth discussions of

> what sex is like after prostate cancer. Many comments have been

> censored and members (primarily female members) have said that they

> have been offended by some of the remarks. I notice that women

have

> their own group which excludes men. Does anyone know of a group

> where men with prostate cancer are free to say what they want to

say

> without women being able to restrict and inhibit the discussion?

>

>

>

> > > There is a list on prostatepointers, PCAI where these issues

can

> be

> > > discussed openly. Not everyone feels comfortable with the

> subject.

> > If he

> > > is interested go to

> > http://www.prostatepointers.org/mlist/mlist.html

> > >

> > > Kathy

> > >

> > > How deep do we go?

> > >

> > >

> > > I was pleased that we had a constuctive debate about the

effects

> > of PCa

> > > and it's treatment on relationships. the debate was conducted

> with

> > > decorum and understanding.

> > >

> > > I have been approached by a member who seems to want to go into

> the

> > > deeper depths of sexual techniques. My initial opinion is that

> > this is

> > > not the place for this. Am I wrong?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Actually, you misunderstood Barb's message. She was inviting you to join a different group where they (we) are having indepth discussions about sex after prostate cancer. She was not talking about THIS group. Peace on the journey,Juel captwildchild@...************************************If you are going through hell, keep going. --Winston Churchill

[Guest guest]

You are correct. I realized when I read my message after it was

posted that I had made that mistake. But I have actually read some

of the postings on that web site and I am not all together impressed

with the talk about " sex after prostate cancer " . They get into a

lot of technical talk about apparati and gadgets and related

things. But what I am hoping to find is more talk about intimacy

without going to extremes in achieving penetration. But maybe that

answers my concern. Maybe most women are actually more worried more

about not having penetration than men are. Maybe most women have to

have the penetration to be happy whereas most men who are impotent

can find ways to be happy without penetration.

-- In ProstateCancerSupport , captwildchild

<captwildchild@r...> wrote:

> Actually, you misunderstood Barb's message. She was inviting you

to

join a different group where they (we) are having indepth

discussions

about sex after prostate cancer. She was not talking about THIS

group.

>

>

> Peace on the journey,

> Juel

> captwildchild@r...

> ************************************

> If you are going through hell, keep going. --Winston Churchill

>

> ---------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Imagine if impotence were not a common collateral damage/side effect of prostate cancer treatment. Chances are these list serves would have a third less members than they do now. Sex is certainly valid discussion in prostate cancer dialogue. Whether the dialogue is abut feelings, love and intimacy, or about physical joys of erect penises, the discussion is salient and for many, critically important. Imagine how much sooner many would make treatment choices if impotence was not a possibility. There are many topics that are offensive, and certainly, we all should refrain from using vulgar terms on this listserv, since many seem turned off by certain "words" and there are other listservs that are more open in vocabulary (go to malecare.com and click on "support" for those ). But, like it or not, sexual functioning is high on prostate cancer patients concerns, and that is where our support of each other finds its value. Darryl

[Guest guest]

> Many comments have been

> censored and members (primarily female members) have said that they

> have been offended by some of the remarks.

I'm a female member, am I one of the people you are talking about?

>I notice that women have

> their own group which excludes men.

Yes we do! We have a small group that we affectionately call " The

Ya-Ya Sisterhood of the Devine Prostate. " The link to it has been

posted here in a previous message. I started that group because

sometimes I felt like the true confessions of my feelings made some

guys feel uncomfortable and/or defensive-- this may or may not be

true, but nevertheless, it's how I felt. The all girl group was formed

to avoid this and also to help us girls feel a little safer talking

about such private matters in cyberspace.

>Does anyone know of a group

> where men with prostate cancer are free to say what they want to

say

> without women being able to restrict and inhibit the discussion?

No I don't, but that doesn't mean you aren't free to start one! In

fact, I would encourage you to do so! Obviously there is a niche

market that needs to be filled.

Wylee

[Guest guest]

What I hear you saying is that women are afraid to tell men the

truth about their reaction to a man's losing his ability to have an

erection. What I want is the truth. If a man is married to a woman

who is devastated because he can no longer get erect, he needs to

know that. He may want to end his relationship with that woman and

find a woman who feels differently. Assuming he can. As for the

woman, if an erect penis is very important to her happiness, she

probably needs to move on and not cuckhold her husband.

I have run into that situation. Only the woman would not be direct

about it. She hinted about it.

>

> > Many comments have been

> > censored and members (primarily female members) have said that

they

> > have been offended by some of the remarks.

>

> I'm a female member, am I one of the people you are talking about?

>

> >I notice that women have

> > their own group which excludes men.

>

> Yes we do! We have a small group that we affectionately call " The

> Ya-Ya Sisterhood of the Devine Prostate. " The link to it has been

> posted here in a previous message. I started that group because

> sometimes I felt like the true confessions of my feelings made some

> guys feel uncomfortable and/or defensive-- this may or may not be

> true, but nevertheless, it's how I felt. The all girl group was

formed

> to avoid this and also to help us girls feel a little safer talking

> about such private matters in cyberspace.

>

> >Does anyone know of a group

> > where men with prostate cancer are free to say what they want to

> say

> > without women being able to restrict and inhibit the discussion?

>

> No I don't, but that doesn't mean you aren't free to start one! In

> fact, I would encourage you to do so! Obviously there is a niche

> market that needs to be filled.

>

> Wylee

[Guest guest]

cshoward wrote: Maybe most women have to have the penetration to be happy whereas most men who are impotent can find ways to be happy without penetration.

Hm, well, as a woman I would disagree. And I would welcome a discussion about this topic here or on the other group. As I have said before, Dale has no desire. He is still good at cuddling. But at this point I am afraid to initiate "petting" since I don't want to frustrate him. But maybe I need to get past that. Part of my hesitancy is how frustrating sex was before the diagnosis. Now that we know the real cause is not our technique but the dragon getting in the way, maybe things would be different.

Peace on the journey,Juel captwildchild@...************************************If you are going through hell, keep going. --Winston Churchill

[Guest guest]

If a man is good at cuddling, presumably he does not mind cuddling.

So what difference would it make, most of the time, who

initiates " petting " ? But maybe petting needs to defined. Instead

of saying " I am afraid to initiate 'petting' " , why didn't you say I

am afraid to initiate cuddling? Is there a difference between

cuddling and petting? Is cuddling not satisfying to you? What

besides cuddling do you need to be gratified? If you don't have to

have penetration, then what is the problem?

Maybe most women have to

> have the penetration to be happy whereas most men who are impotent

> can find ways to be happy without penetration.

>

> Hm, well, as a woman I would disagree. And I would welcome a

discussion about this topic here or on the other group. As I have

said before, Dale has no desire. He is still good at cuddling. But

at this point I am afraid to initiate " petting " since I don't want

to frustrate him. But maybe I need to get past that. Part of my

hesitancy is how frustrating sex was before the diagnosis. Now that

we know the real cause is not our technique but the dragon getting

in the way, maybe things would be different.

>

>

>

>

> Peace on the journey,

> Juel

> captwildchild@r...

> ************************************

> If you are going through hell, keep going. --Winston Churchill

>

> ---------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

I gave a talk at one of the prostate cancer support groups. I spoke about prostate cancer and ED.

After going through all the options, I conclude by saying that all of the things are used to get an erection. They do not guarentee you will have an erection, it will not prevent sexually transmitted diseases nor will it gurantee you will satisfy you partner. The most important thing in any relation is communication with you partner and that snuggling is just as important as having sexual relations.cshoward56 wrote:

If a man is good at cuddling, presumably he does not mind cuddling. So what difference would it make, most of the time, who initiates "petting"? But maybe petting needs to defined. Instead of saying "I am afraid to initiate 'petting'", why didn't you say I am afraid to initiate cuddling? Is there a difference between cuddling and petting? Is cuddling not satisfying to you? What besides cuddling do you need to be gratified? If you don't have to have penetration, then what is the problem? Maybe most women have to > have the penetration to be happy whereas most men who are impotent > can find ways to be happy without penetration.> > Hm, well, as a

woman I would disagree. And I would welcome a discussion about this topic here or on the other group. As I have said before, Dale has no desire. He is still good at cuddling. But at this point I am afraid to initiate "petting" since I don't want to frustrate him. But maybe I need to get past that. Part of my hesitancy is how frustrating sex was before the diagnosis. Now that we know the real cause is not our technique but the dragon getting in the way, maybe things would be different. > > > > > Peace on the journey,> Juel > captwildchild@r...> ************************************> If you are going through hell, keep going. --Winston Churchill> > --------------------------------->