Re: Re: I just don't know what to do anymore.

[Guest guest]

HI Caroline...Yes, she can go out with earphones, IF she keeps busy (e.g. bike riding, swinging, swimming).  The minute she stops moving...she starts hyperfocusing, and then forget it.  I did notice that if she doesn't go outside right away, she will eventually venture out (with earplugs) because she hates being in the house alone.  

I hate her in the house alone, and then I feel guilty because we are all outside.It's a mess, I tell ya!

,Would your daughter be able to go outside wearing earphones connected to an MP3 player on which she was listening to white or brown noise?

Caroline

[Guest guest]

Yes..That is just what I told her today.  I said, " Do not even attempt to go outside when you first come home. (home is the worst for some reason).  So hopefully, she will do that.  And gradually learn to take her earplugs out.  I'm also going to start relaxation exersizes once school is out.   Thanks for your input.  It helps for me to vent for some reason, and is also helpful when people respond.  

, my daughter is 10 years old, and had the condition since she was 2, I can imagine how hard is for her and all your family.What I noticed is that she reacts better and has more control when she is well rested and in a calm state of mind, also when she is focused on something that she likes a lot.

Maybe a nap and some relaxation activities before going outside and using earphones might help a bit.Camilo.

[Guest guest]

I do sympathise, . I was driven indoors from the garden during the early evening because someone in the distance was playing music with a heavy bass beat. By the time the sound reached our garden it wasn't very loud but the sound just being there irritates me and I have to go inside to get away from it. I actually love the sound of birds but have lost the ability to hear many of them because of age related hearing loss. I envy my husband who has lost the low notes, so can't hear the bass music, but can hear the birds clearly.

As a teenager it was the sound of my father eating that I couldn't stand. At the time I put it down to feelings of powerlessness versus him (we had issues). But I have had similar problems with the sound of my husband eating and sniffing - also movements such as putting his hand to his face - and I love him dearly. Fortunately he is understanding and tries really hard to eat quietly if I tell him it is annoying me. We usually eat whilst watching TV which drowns the sound out and so I am OK. The only problem is if he mutes the TV sound during the adverts. The weird thing is that I have never been bothered by eating sounds made by anyone else except these two people. I think my husband's noises trigger me because they remind me of my father.

Since my hearing loss set in, the sounds that bother me most tend to be in the lower frequency range - perhaps because I have lost the higher frequency sounds which used to balance them out. As well as bass music I am bothered by noisy car and motor bike exhausts (even if they are away in the distance) and by people talking (at a normal volume) in the street outside my house or speaking on mobile phones (when they tend to shout). 

But my greatest problem over the past few years has been women with noisy shoes. I'm old enough to have been taught deportment by my mother and the nuns at my convent school. In my youth it was considered very unladylike for a woman to make a noise when she walked. Nowadays, women of all ages seem to take greater pleasure in slamming their feet down hard on the ground. Tap, tap, tap go their heels or clump, clump, clump go their boots. I think it is a manifestation of modern women's confidence and assertiveness - their shoes seem to be saying " Here I am, listen to me! " I have had to leave shops where the assistants walk around in noisy shoes, especially on wooden floors, and last week I caught myself turning round and glaring pointedly at some poor woman in a department store. I am sure she had no notion of how rude her shoe noise sounded to me. I am never bothered by the sound of men walking. Either they are never noisy or the sounds of their shoes just pass me by.

 I am a very fastidious person in regard to certain things. I will happily get my hands dirty in the garden or clean up after a baby or pet that I love, but I stopped going to stay with one couple because the lack of order and cleanliness in their house and bathroom made me uncomfortable and I have also spent a miserable week in a less than clean holiday cottage. I hate the first few weeks in a new house when I have to live with " other people's dirt " but over time it becomes my own place and my own dirt and then it is OK. I feel my 4S in regard to particular sounds is an aspect of that selective fastidiousness. 

Seven years ago I suffered from very severe depression following traumatic cancer treatment. I spent a few weeks in a private psychiatric hospital and the CBT techniques I learned there, plus long term antidepressants, have made me much more relaxed and easy going in most aspects of my life. I have learned to relinquish a need for control in many areas. Unfortunately, my 4S triggers still wind me up in a way that few other things now have the power to do.

Caroline

[Guest guest]

Sounds as if you have been through alot in your life Caroline.  At least your husband seems supportive of you.  I am worrying most because I fear a lonely life for my daughter ahead because of this.  She is already saying  things like   " Am I always going to be like this forever? "   Well...I'm a big believer in the power of prayer, I really am.  And I tell her no, because of that.  But it's wore me out.  I think I am getting depressed over this, and I'm usually pretty good at handling most things.  But this is something that cannot be pinpointed, or tracked down to anything, and it is literally sucking the life out of me.  I have 3 other kids, who love to be outside, and a child crying inside.  What do I do? I can only encourage her to wear those earplugs outside and come on short walks with us, and hopefully our pool will be up soon.  I was just so looking forward to a great summer.  I'll have to try and make the best of it! Thanks for posting. 

I do sympathise, . I was driven indoors from the garden during the early evening because someone in the distance was playing music with a heavy bass beat. By the time the sound reached our garden it wasn't very loud but the sound just being there irritates me and I have to go inside to get away from it. I actually love the sound of birds but have lost the ability to hear many of them because of age related hearing loss. I envy my husband who has lost the low notes, so can't hear the bass music, but can hear the birds clearly.

As a teenager it was the sound of my father eating that I couldn't stand. At the time I put it down to feelings of powerlessness versus him (we had issues). But I have had similar problems with the sound of my husband eating and sniffing - also movements such as putting his hand to his face - and I love him dearly. Fortunately he is understanding and tries really hard to eat quietly if I tell him it is annoying me. We usually eat whilst watching TV which drowns the sound out and so I am OK. The only problem is if he mutes the TV sound during the adverts. The weird thing is that I have never been bothered by eating sounds made by anyone else except these two people. I think my husband's noises trigger me because they remind me of my father.

Since my hearing loss set in, the sounds that bother me most tend to be in the lower frequency range - perhaps because I have lost the higher frequency sounds which used to balance them out. As well as bass music I am bothered by noisy car and motor bike exhausts (even if they are away in the distance) and by people talking (at a normal volume) in the street outside my house or speaking on mobile phones (when they tend to shout). 

But my greatest problem over the past few years has been women with noisy shoes. I'm old enough to have been taught deportment by my mother and the nuns at my convent school. In my youth it was considered very unladylike for a woman to make a noise when she walked. Nowadays, women of all ages seem to take greater pleasure in slamming their feet down hard on the ground. Tap, tap, tap go their heels or clump, clump, clump go their boots. I think it is a manifestation of modern women's confidence and assertiveness - their shoes seem to be saying " Here I am, listen to me! " I have had to leave shops where the assistants walk around in noisy shoes, especially on wooden floors, and last week I caught myself turning round and glaring pointedly at some poor woman in a department store. I am sure she had no notion of how rude her shoe noise sounded to me. I am never bothered by the sound of men walking. Either they are never noisy or the sounds of their shoes just pass me by.

 I am a very fastidious person in regard to certain things. I will happily get my hands dirty in the garden or clean up after a baby or pet that I love, but I stopped going to stay with one couple because the lack of order and cleanliness in their house and bathroom made me uncomfortable and I have also spent a miserable week in a less than clean holiday cottage. I hate the first few weeks in a new house when I have to live with " other people's dirt " but over time it becomes my own place and my own dirt and then it is OK. I feel my 4S in regard to particular sounds is an aspect of that selective fastidiousness. 

Seven years ago I suffered from very severe depression following traumatic cancer treatment. I spent a few weeks in a private psychiatric hospital and the CBT techniques I learned there, plus long term antidepressants, have made me much more relaxed and easy going in most aspects of my life. I have learned to relinquish a need for control in many areas. Unfortunately, my 4S triggers still wind me up in a way that few other things now have the power to do.

Caroline

[Guest guest]

thank you...I will try CBT.  I have actually started doing it with a book I have, but it's frustrating when you don't see results.  I do feel that when she ventures out on her own, in her time, it is most productive.  When she comes in after having fun, I tell her " Great Job, I knew you could do it. "  She says, " Yeah, I know...I still hate them though. " I know when she's had enough and has to come in.

I will try having her look up some facts on birds this summer.  Perhaps that will help.  Who knows? I'm willing to try anything at this point. One day at a time...

,  I'm so sorry your daughter is struggling. I also live in the country and it is indeed quiet... except for the birds, crickets, frogs, and (for us) cows.  I will tell you that I also despise bluejays squawking.  But I will also tell you that therapy has helped me with that sound.  I still hear it (even in my house they are so loud) but I don't get as angry, and it doesn't stop me from going out.

I think a psychologist/psychiatrist is a good idea.  Learn CBT.  She will learn to repeat things to herself like, " I'm going outside. I may hear the birds chirping but they won't hurt me.  I may get upset, but I'll be just fine and that feeling will pass " .  Sounds stupid but over time, it gives way to being able to stay in the situation a little longer each time.  Its all about baby steps.  Have her go out a little longer each day.  I remember when I first started practicing CBT that I could only stay in the situation of a bad sound for 20 seconds.  Each time I would increase it, even if only a second.  During that time, I would repeat my little sayings I was taught, write down my thoughts, and just breathe.  Its hard, but once you start staying a little longer each time it makes you feel stronger.  I also agree with another poster that being fully rested is really important.  I was not very good at CBT when I was tired and crabby.

I have a friend who's son hates the sound of frogs. I don't believe he has 4S because his reaction is not like ours.  None the less, he HATED their croaking.  But, she had him learn lots of interesting facts about those little frogs, and now he is fascinated by them.  She thinks it made him realize that they were a living creature, not responsible for upsetting him, and he became more tolerant.  I don't know if it would help your daughter, but it's an idea.

Hang in there.  She's lucky to have you for her mom.

>

> This year is like any other for my 11 year old daughter.  The birds chirping

> in the spring really put her into the worst in years.  It's sad that a child

> cannot go outside to play and summer is here  because of those stinking bird

> sounds.  I'm just at my wits end.  She tries.  But she only lasts a few

> minutes.  My husband is just so not understanding the severity of this.  He

> thinks, let's just make her.  It's every day.  Then it's " Why did she go out

> yesterday? "  He thinks she has total control but doesn't use it or

> something.  She cries everyday she comes home from school over this.  Part

> of the problem is we live in the country, and it's quiet.  You just hear the

> birds.  (and the crickets bother her at night).

>

> I really don't know what to do.  He mentioned a psychiatrist today.  I never

> made the appt. for the audiologist so I guess I will call the doctor

> tomorrow, and be referred.  That should be fun explaining this to a doctor.

>

>

> Thank God this board is here so at least you ppl don't think we're crazy!

>

>

>

------------------------------------

PLEASE BE AWARE THIS IS A STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL GROUP AND NO MESSAGES ARE TO BE USED FOR ANY PURPOSE OUTSIDE OF THE YAHOO GROUP MEMBERSHIP SITE OR REPRODUCED OR COPIED AND MAILED FOR ANY PURPOSE.

ALSO DO NOT SHARE MEMBER EMAIL ADDRESSES OR NAMES WITH ANYONE.

Thank you.  MJ

[Guest guest]

thanks ...I read the article and I will consider the things you mentioned.  I feel in a way, I have been doing " ACT " .  When she's inside crying for example, and she hears the others outside playing and laughing, I let her know that she " can " come out at anytime when she's ready, and that " I know " it is hard for her, but she has done it before and she can still go out and have fun even though she is still suffering.  I know the actual program is more involved than that, but I try to encourage the fact that past afternoons she has conquered " the birds " in still playing outside. Even if they were shorter amounts of time than the others being outside, she still was able to do some things.

I will try to check out some CBT therapists.  I am going to first make an appt with her pediatrician (taking some paperwork along so he doesn't think we're crazy) and maybe get him to give a local recommendation.  I appreciate your two cents, and I am grateful for this board.

,

I have had 4S since I was at least 10 and birds is one of my trigger noises although it doesn't seem like I reacted as strongly as your daughter to that trigger, chewing was my worst.  I would constantly yell at my little brother at the dinner table. My mom was often frustrated that I would plug my ears and sing to mask noises- she had no idea what was going on with me.

As a psychologist in training and a CBT practitioner I just wanted to give my two cents about CBT.  It is not something that works overnight so please be patient with both yourself and your daughter.  I would recommend that you seek out a CBT therapist that is competent in treating anxiety disorders with both exposure and acceptance based therapies.

I hope that one day there is a " cure " for 4S but to me it seems that the best we can do right now is learn to accept that the trigger noises will cause some physical and emotional discomfort and to persist in activities that are important to us despite that discomfort.  This may be a hard concept to teach a young child, I don't really work with children so I don't know.

Here is an article you may find interesting.  It talks about treatment for chronic pain but I think many of the same principles can be applied to 4S.  A summary line about Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (a newer generation CBT) is:  In short, ACT therapists encourage engagement with life even when it hurts.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1882901,00.html

Please take all of my " advice " as simply suggestions on how to think about the suffering your daughter is dealing with and not as a truth.

Best,

> > >

> > > This year is like any other for my 11 year old daughter.  The birds

> > chirping

> > > in the spring really put her into the worst in years.  It's sad that a

> > child

> > > cannot go outside to play and summer is here  because of those stinking

> > bird

> > > sounds.  I'm just at my wits end.  She tries.  But she only lasts a few

> > > minutes.  My husband is just so not understanding the severity of this.

> >  He

> > > thinks, let's just make her.  It's every day.  Then it's " Why did she go

> > out

> > > yesterday? "  He thinks she has total control but doesn't use it or

> > > something.  She cries everyday she comes home from school over this.

> >  Part

> > > of the problem is we live in the country, and it's quiet.  You just hear

> > the

> > > birds.  (and the crickets bother her at night).

> > >

> > > I really don't know what to do.  He mentioned a psychiatrist today.  I

> > never

> > > made the appt. for the audiologist so I guess I will call the doctor

> > > tomorrow, and be referred.  That should be fun explaining this to a

> > doctor.

> > >

> > >

> > > Thank God this board is here so at least you ppl don't think we're crazy!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > PLEASE BE AWARE THIS IS A STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL GROUP AND NO MESSAGES ARE

> > TO BE USED FOR ANY PURPOSE OUTSIDE OF THE YAHOO GROUP MEMBERSHIP SITE OR

> > REPRODUCED OR COPIED AND MAILED FOR ANY PURPOSE.

> >

> > ALSO DO NOT SHARE MEMBER EMAIL ADDRESSES OR NAMES WITH ANYONE.

> > Thank you.  MJ

[Guest guest]

I think its wonderful you're going to try to get her help. I just feel like the sooner one addresses this it can't but help in the long run. You're doing great!HeidiSent from my iPhone

thanks ...I read the article and I will consider the things you mentioned. I feel in a way, I have been doing "ACT". When she's inside crying for example, and she hears the others outside playing and laughing, I let her know that she "can" come out at anytime when she's ready, and that "I know" it is hard for her, but she has done it before and she can still go out and have fun even though she is still suffering. I know the actual program is more involved than that, but I try to encourage the fact that past afternoons she has conquered "the birds" in still playing outside. Even if they were shorter amounts of time than the others being outside, she still was able to do some things.

I will try to check out some CBT therapists. I am going to first make an appt with her pediatrician (taking some paperwork along so he doesn't think we're crazy) and maybe get him to give a local recommendation. I appreciate your two cents, and I am grateful for this board.

,

I have had 4S since I was at least 10 and birds is one of my trigger noises although it doesn't seem like I reacted as strongly as your daughter to that trigger, chewing was my worst. I would constantly yell at my little brother at the dinner table. My mom was often frustrated that I would plug my ears and sing to mask noises- she had no idea what was going on with me.

As a psychologist in training and a CBT practitioner I just wanted to give my two cents about CBT. It is not something that works overnight so please be patient with both yourself and your daughter. I would recommend that you seek out a CBT therapist that is competent in treating anxiety disorders with both exposure and acceptance based therapies.

I hope that one day there is a "cure" for 4S but to me it seems that the best we can do right now is learn to accept that the trigger noises will cause some physical and emotional discomfort and to persist in activities that are important to us despite that discomfort. This may be a hard concept to teach a young child, I don't really work with children so I don't know.

Here is an article you may find interesting. It talks about treatment for chronic pain but I think many of the same principles can be applied to 4S. A summary line about Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (a newer generation CBT) is: In short, ACT therapists encourage engagement with life even when it hurts.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1882901,00.html

Please take all of my "advice" as simply suggestions on how to think about the suffering your daughter is dealing with and not as a truth.

Best,

> > >

> > > This year is like any other for my 11 year old daughter. The birds

> > chirping

> > > in the spring really put her into the worst in years. It's sad that a

> > child

> > > cannot go outside to play and summer is here because of those stinking

> > bird

> > > sounds. I'm just at my wits end. She tries. But she only lasts a few

> > > minutes. My husband is just so not understanding the severity of this.

> > He

> > > thinks, let's just make her. It's every day. Then it's "Why did she go

> > out

> > > yesterday?" He thinks she has total control but doesn't use it or

> > > something. She cries everyday she comes home from school over this.

> > Part

> > > of the problem is we live in the country, and it's quiet. You just hear

> > the

> > > birds. (and the crickets bother her at night).

> > >

> > > I really don't know what to do. He mentioned a psychiatrist today. I

> > never

> > > made the appt. for the audiologist so I guess I will call the doctor

> > > tomorrow, and be referred. That should be fun explaining this to a

> > doctor.

> > >

> > >

> > > Thank God this board is here so at least you ppl don't think we're crazy!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > PLEASE BE AWARE THIS IS A STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL GROUP AND NO MESSAGES ARE

> > TO BE USED FOR ANY PURPOSE OUTSIDE OF THE YAHOO GROUP MEMBERSHIP SITE OR

> > REPRODUCED OR COPIED AND MAILED FOR ANY PURPOSE.

> >

> > ALSO DO NOT SHARE MEMBER EMAIL ADDRESSES OR NAMES WITH ANYONE.

> > Thank you. MJ

[Guest guest]

Thanks Heidi!

I think its wonderful you're going to try to get her help. I just feel like the sooner one addresses this it can't but help in the long run.  You're doing great!HeidiSent from my iPhone

 

thanks ...I read the article and I will consider the things you mentioned.  I feel in a way, I have been doing " ACT " .  When she's inside crying for example, and she hears the others outside playing and laughing, I let her know that she " can " come out at anytime when she's ready, and that " I know " it is hard for her, but she has done it before and she can still go out and have fun even though she is still suffering.  I know the actual program is more involved than that, but I try to encourage the fact that past afternoons she has conquered " the birds " in still playing outside. Even if they were shorter amounts of time than the others being outside, she still was able to do some things.

I will try to check out some CBT therapists.  I am going to first make an appt with her pediatrician (taking some paperwork along so he doesn't think we're crazy) and maybe get him to give a local recommendation.  I appreciate your two cents, and I am grateful for this board.

,

I have had 4S since I was at least 10 and birds is one of my trigger noises although it doesn't seem like I reacted as strongly as your daughter to that trigger, chewing was my worst.  I would constantly yell at my little brother at the dinner table. My mom was often frustrated that I would plug my ears and sing to mask noises- she had no idea what was going on with me.

As a psychologist in training and a CBT practitioner I just wanted to give my two cents about CBT.  It is not something that works overnight so please be patient with both yourself and your daughter.  I would recommend that you seek out a CBT therapist that is competent in treating anxiety disorders with both exposure and acceptance based therapies.

I hope that one day there is a " cure " for 4S but to me it seems that the best we can do right now is learn to accept that the trigger noises will cause some physical and emotional discomfort and to persist in activities that are important to us despite that discomfort.  This may be a hard concept to teach a young child, I don't really work with children so I don't know.

Here is an article you may find interesting.  It talks about treatment for chronic pain but I think many of the same principles can be applied to 4S.  A summary line about Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (a newer generation CBT) is:  In short, ACT therapists encourage engagement with life even when it hurts.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1882901,00.html

Please take all of my " advice " as simply suggestions on how to think about the suffering your daughter is dealing with and not as a truth.

Best,

> > >

> > > This year is like any other for my 11 year old daughter.  The birds

> > chirping

> > > in the spring really put her into the worst in years.  It's sad that a

> > child

> > > cannot go outside to play and summer is here  because of those stinking

> > bird

> > > sounds.  I'm just at my wits end.  She tries.  But she only lasts a few

> > > minutes.  My husband is just so not understanding the severity of this.

> >  He

> > > thinks, let's just make her.  It's every day.  Then it's " Why did she go

> > out

> > > yesterday? "  He thinks she has total control but doesn't use it or

> > > something.  She cries everyday she comes home from school over this.

> >  Part

> > > of the problem is we live in the country, and it's quiet.  You just hear

> > the

> > > birds.  (and the crickets bother her at night).

> > >

> > > I really don't know what to do.  He mentioned a psychiatrist today.  I

> > never

> > > made the appt. for the audiologist so I guess I will call the doctor

> > > tomorrow, and be referred.  That should be fun explaining this to a

> > doctor.

> > >

> > >

> > > Thank God this board is here so at least you ppl don't think we're crazy!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > PLEASE BE AWARE THIS IS A STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL GROUP AND NO MESSAGES ARE

> > TO BE USED FOR ANY PURPOSE OUTSIDE OF THE YAHOO GROUP MEMBERSHIP SITE OR

> > REPRODUCED OR COPIED AND MAILED FOR ANY PURPOSE.

> >

> > ALSO DO NOT SHARE MEMBER EMAIL ADDRESSES OR NAMES WITH ANYONE.

> > Thank you.  MJ