Re: CRB checks for alternative practitioners?

[Guest guest]

Dear Morag,

I cannot speak for other medical practitioners but I have never had a

CRB check. They were not done when I left general practice in the early

80's and I am now in private practice and there are no checks on what I

do. Generally, I think, it is employers who ask for such checks and also

insist on CPD, for example.

Regards

Gascoigne

Email: mailto:drgascoigne@...

Web: http://www.drgascoigne.com

Morag Chacksfield wrote:

>

>

>

> Hi all,

>

> This local case, pasted below, describes the sort of situation that

> throws all Alt & Comp Medicine into disrepute. What interested me was a

> comment sent in by a reader stating that all such Alt & Comp.

> practitioners should be CRB checked in order to reassure their

> patients. Now, I am not sure how helpful this would be - just

> tightening the regulatory noose perhaps - but I wondered what views

> you might have.

>

> My husband, as a teacher, has to be CRB (Criminal Record Bureau)

> checked every three years. The categories checked are information

> under section 142, police records, protection of children act,

> protection of vulnerable adults act. See www.crb.gov.uk and

> www.disclosure.gov.uk

>

> Are members of the medical profession CRB checked?

>

> Morag

> Morag Chacksfield BSc, MNIMH

>

> 'HOLISTIC

> practitioner Hands, now behind bars for molesting some of his

> patients,

> is a former car salesman without any qualifications to perform lymphatic

> drainage, the Echo can reveal. Judge Graham Cottle, jailing Hands on

> Tuesday,

> said the defendant did a " great disservice " to genuine complementary

> therapists.

>

> Hands was found guilty of

> five offences of indecent assault and three of sexual assault,

> involving six

> female patients.The defendant was living in rroch Road, West

> Hill, Ottery

> St , at the time of the offences. Hands told the court that he had

> been a

> part- time holistic practitioner, until he retired from his job as

> manager of a

> car firm in Cornwall in 1994, moved to Devon and adopted his role

> full-time. He

> listed a long series of certificates and qualifications in skills such as

> massage, but agreed under cross-examination that he did not have a

> qualification in lymphatic drainage. This was the skill he claimed to

> be using

> when he intimately touched his victims.

>

> Dr Edzard Ernst, of the

> city's Peninsula Medical School,

> told the Echo that genuine lymphatic drainage should not be confused with

> Hands' offences. " This technique was developed in Germany and can

> be most useful, " he said. " It involves a very gentle massage along

> the body's lymph vessels and aims at increasing the flow of fluid in

> these tiny

> vessels. " The method is particularly useful if a patient suffers from

> swelling of a limb, for instance after an operation that adversely

> affected the

> lymph system. "

>

> Lesley Hunter, the

> principal of the School of Complementary Health in Exeter, urged Echo

> readers to ask to see

> evidence of their therapist's qualifications and insurance. " Thankfully,

> the case of Hands is a rare event, " she said. " Professional

> assocations of lymphatic drainage practitioners have strict codes of

> ethics.

> For example, our school has been running for 25 years and students are

> taught

> to a high standard and gain diplomas from the International Therapy

> Examination

> Council, which qualifies them to practice. " An Exeter woman, who is

> not one of the victims,

> told the Echo how she discovered Hands was a " dirty old man "

> when she sought his help after an injury. He warned her the treatment

> could be

> " invasive " , but she said it was inappropriate and unnecessarily

> painful.

>

> " I thought at the

> time, 'it's not right, " she said. " He said the same phrases to me

> about 'lymphatic drainage' and 'pulse points' that some of the women

> described

> in court. " He prattled on but he wasn't a very warm person. He was

> discussing other patients' conditions, which I don't think he should have

> done. " She gave a possible insight into how Hands got away with his

> behaviour for so long. " You put your faith in these people as they are

> supposed to be professionals, " she said. " Perhaps I should have said

> something sooner, so it would not have happened to someone else. " But I

> was on a lot of medication after my injury, I was zombified. I didn't

> even tell

> my husband. " '

>

> Lesley recommends checking

> reputable complementary therapists on the database www.ndaq. org.uk.

> She is a

> member of www.mlduk.org.uk which provides useful information about

> lymphatic

> drainage.

>

> __________________________________________________________

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>

>

[Guest guest]

Agency and bank nurses are checked every 3 years. Never had a

contract so not sure if staff nurses are or not - I would imagine

that they are.

Best Wishes and Kind Regards,

Zoe Hawes

Medical Herbalist

MNIMH RGN Dip Phyt.

www.herbaljournal.co.uk

www.zoehawes.co.uk

Bath

01761 439 920

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[Guest guest]

I've just begun studying for a nutritional therapy qualification and we are

required to submit a CRB form before being able to practice in the university

clinic.

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8:59 PM

[Guest guest]

Us herbalists in the north UK know of an osteopath jailed for inappropriate

touch, and a paedophile who is now working as a natural therapist / herbalist.

It's naive to think any profession is immune from such tendencies.

 

Helen

Subject: Re: CRB checks for alternative practitioners?

To: ukherbal-list

Date: Wednesday, 19 November, 2008, 9:22 PM

I've just begun studying for a nutritional therapy qualification and we are

required to submit a CRB form before being able to practice in the university

clinic.

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PM

[Guest guest]

---

That sounds a bit OTT, after all in a training clinic a patient is

rarely (if ever) alone with a student. I've just finished my first

year of a nutritional therapy course and we didn't have to submit

CRBs for our clinic work.

Anne

In ukherbal-list , " Firnberg " wrote:

>

> I've just begun studying for a nutritional therapy qualification

and we are required to submit a CRB form before being able to

practice in the university clinic.

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------

>

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.7/1798 - Release Date:

11/18/2008 8:59 PM

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

CRB checks were introduced by the government when I was on council.  We did

discuss checks for members but came up against a couple of obstacles.

1 the checks were taking for ever at that time (I don't know what the situation

is now) and we would have had to delay people starting in practise till they

were completed.

2 If people had already qualified as a herbalist, was this the time to do the

checks only to find they couldn't practise.

I was speaking to someone who has gone on to do a nutrition course recently and

the uni did the check before they could start their training. This would seem to

be the way forward.  However, they still need repeating every three years I

believe.

It should certainly be part of our professional standards.

Best wishes -

 

________________________________

To: ukherbal-list

Sent: Thursday, 20 November, 2008 1:11:15 AM

Subject: Re: CRB checks for alternative practitioners?

---

That sounds a bit OTT, after all in a training clinic a patient is

rarely (if ever) alone with a student. I've just finished my first

year of a nutritional therapy course and we didn't have to submit

CRBs for our clinic work.

Anne

In ukherbal-list , " Firnberg " wrote:

>

> I've just begun studying for a nutritional therapy qualification

and we are required to submit a CRB form before being able to

practice in the university clinic.

> 

>

>

> -------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------

>

>

>

>  No virus found in this incoming message.

>  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

>  Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.7/1798 - Release Date:

11/18/2008 8:59 PM

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

CRB checks are now a mandatory condition of employment for all NHS workers who

come into contact with patients and sensitive data and enhanced checks are

required for those working with children or vulnerable adults. These checks

Checks are required for newly recruited permanent staff, temporary staff,

volunteers, students, locums and agency staff and are supposed to be repeated

every 3 years. However, some staff employed before 2002 when mandatory checks

were introduced may not have had a CRB check yet. I believe many other

employers in the public, private and voluntary sectors also now conduct

mandatory checks prior to recruitment and every three years.

I don't know how useful it would be to patients of self-employed CAM

practitioners if they were required to request and pay for their own CRB checks,

as they are only accurate at the time of the police check and don't stop

practitioners with criminal intent from inappropriate behavior.

Charlotte Stedman (NHS Dietitian)

From: Morag Chacksfield

Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:05 PM

To: ukherbal-list

Subject: CRB checks for alternative practitioners?

Are members of the medical profession CRB checked?

Morag

Morag Chacksfield BSc, MNIMH

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[Guest guest]

Re CRB checks, I had to have a CRB check for teaching a Riding for the

Disabled Group. At the time, we all felt it was quite ridiculous as we

were all volunteers, and this put off several which meant our numbers

dropped. As mentioned before, you never know, but it did seem a bit OTT

at the time, especially as our group was adults and there is always a

supervisor there. I suppose we are too trusting in that respect!

________________________________

From: ukherbal-list

[mailto:ukherbal-list ] On Behalf Of Charlotte Stedman

Sent: 20 November 2008 08:47

To: ukherbal-list

Subject: Re: CRB checks for alternative practitioners?

CRB checks are now a mandatory condition of employment for all NHS

workers who come into contact with patients and sensitive data and

enhanced checks are required for those working with children or

vulnerable adults. These checks Checks are required for newly recruited

permanent staff, temporary staff, volunteers, students, locums and

agency staff and are supposed to be repeated every 3 years. However,

some staff employed before 2002 when mandatory checks were introduced

may not have had a CRB check yet. I believe many other employers in the

public, private and voluntary sectors also now conduct mandatory checks

prior to recruitment and every three years.

I don't know how useful it would be to patients of self-employed CAM

practitioners if they were required to request and pay for their own CRB

checks, as they are only accurate at the time of the police check and

don't stop practitioners with criminal intent from inappropriate

behavior.

Charlotte Stedman (NHS Dietitian)

From: Morag Chacksfield

Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:05 PM

To: ukherbal-list

<mailto:ukherbal-list%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: CRB checks for alternative practitioners?

Are members of the medical profession CRB checked?

Morag

Morag Chacksfield BSc, MNIMH

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[Guest guest]

If you think that's extreme my 82 year old mother in law had to have a CRB check

to be able to take holy communion to the housebound!

CRB checks for alternative practitioners?

Are members of the medical profession CRB checked?

Morag

Morag Chacksfield BSc, MNIMH

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[Guest guest]

Just a quick reminder of the history

I cant remember the sequence of events offhand but the case of the school

caretaker abducting abusing then murdering 2 pupils (Ian Huntley?) prompted soul

searching in the way Climbie and Baby P have.

CRB checks are pretty basic checks of criminal convictions, obviously only as

good as the day they were done, but do provide a bottom line background check on

just that; has someone been found guilty of an offence. Not usually speeding,

more criminal convictions. They are thus evidence based, and a move away from

reference based information like endorsing good character. Whereas initially

they took forever, they are much quicker now and a prerequisite for many jobs

from health service to dinner ladies. massage and reflexology students at a

local college all have to have them before they can go on placements.

Volunteers with home star are another example. While they have a few

beurocratic problems that people in HR etc recognise, they are a bottom line,

and for working with children or vulnerable adults are generally expected.

CRB checks for alternative practitioners?

Are members of the medical profession CRB checked?

Morag

Morag Chacksfield BSc, MNIMH

Recent Activity

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[Guest guest]

Hi

Yes, in hindsight I can agree with the necessity and appropriateness of

the CRB checks, especially as we were working with vulnerable adults.

At the time, we had just been swamped with paperwork from RDA HQ,

courtesy of litigation case which shouldn't have gone to court (common

sense out of the window sort), that opened a huge can of worms with H & S!

Thank you for this history.

Kate

________________________________

From: ukherbal-list

[mailto:ukherbal-list ] On Behalf Of Green

Sent: 20 November 2008 13:55

To: ukherbal-list

Subject: Re: CRB checks for alternative practitioners?

Just a quick reminder of the history

I cant remember the sequence of events offhand but the case of the

school caretaker abducting abusing then murdering 2 pupils (Ian

Huntley?) prompted soul searching in the way Climbie and Baby P

have.

CRB checks are pretty basic checks of criminal convictions, obviously

only as good as the day they were done, but do provide a bottom line

background check on just that; has someone been found guilty of an

offence. Not usually speeding, more criminal convictions. They are thus

evidence based, and a move away from reference based information like

endorsing good character. Whereas initially they took forever, they are

much quicker now and a prerequisite for many jobs from health service to

dinner ladies. massage and reflexology students at a local college all

have to have them before they can go on placements. Volunteers with home

star are another example. While they have a few beurocratic problems

that people in HR etc recognise, they are a bottom line, and for working

with children or vulnerable adults are generally expected.

CRB checks for alternative practitioners?

Are members of the medical profession CRB checked?

Morag

Morag Chacksfield BSc, MNIMH

Recent Activity

a.. 2New Members

b.. 1New Files

Visit Your Group

Yahoo! Health

Healthy Aging

Improve your

quality of life.

Meditation and

Lovingkindness

A Yahoo! Group

to share and learn.

Need traffic?

Drive customers

With search ads

on Yahoo!

..

[Guest guest]

When I started working at a private GP practice I had to be CRB checked.

I'd had a CRB check for voluntary work with children but had to get the

check for adults. It took two or three months both times.

But having one can make life easier for doing other things. For

example when I did BP checks in a PCT's healthy living tent at a local

authority festival in the summer it was a requirement so I just sent in

a photocopy of the docs.

My guess is it's here to stay! Katharine