Guest guest Posted November 24, 2001 Report Share Posted November 24, 2001 In a message dated 11/24/2001 11:37:13 AM Central Standard Time, aaron@... writes: << I think so, though at what level? My evidence is 's first visit to the school he's at now; after watching him struggle to interact with other kids at Mcs, the local park playground, Chuck E Cheese's, etc, he walked into a classroom with 5 other autistic kids and just " fit " like a puzzle piece. They talked, they played together, they played separately. Mostly the latter. But they just " clicked, " as if they were from the same planet. It was the first time we'd ever seen it, and it made us tear up... >> I've said it a thousand times....they have their tribe...they know their tribe.. We have our tribe...we all fit in.... nuff said Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2001 Report Share Posted November 24, 2001 In a message dated 11/24/01 10:48:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, Salli writes: > Psych with ASD: Yes, yes, those NT's. No real theory of mind, you know? > And they do lack empathy. But they can't help it; it's some neurological > glitch. > > A couple of months ago I went to a local monthly Autism Parents meeting, (one that I hadn't been to in many years) and witnessed something very distressing: There must have been 40 people at this one meeting, most parents of younger children like yours. Anyway, the introduction circle got around to these two adult autistics; one man, one woman. The woman was a very angry individual, and went on for some time about why the anger, and what made her angry. Mostly perseveration, she tongue lashed NT's (by the way, this was the first time I had ever heard the term " Neuotypical, " and she used it every other word) every time they even slightly chuckled when she said something mildly funny to us. Now NT's have a nervous laugh that is a chuckle of sorts, but never meant to be actually laughing AT anybody. She explained she ALWAYS takes it wrong, and proceeded to rant to the point of bringing 3/4 of the room to tears in guilt and empathy. My H and I were on opposing sides of this huge circle, yet we both felt exactly the same thing: Resentment. I resented her blaming, I resented her coming to a parent meeting and bringing NT's to their knees, I resented her autism. I resented being told I can't laugh at something I find humorous. I would not say this was a typical autistic attitude by any means, the man didn't seem all that angry, (I think they were together). She also went on for a long time, taking up a good 45 minutes of a 2 hour meeting, never quite feeling she was making her point. Her agitation got to fever pitch as she screamed at us, and I was fuming. Needless to say only half of the parents were introduced. My point is I don't believe autistics see things the same way, but I think they THINK other autistics do see things the same as they. Did I ever say I hated the term NT after that berating she gave us? My daughter is empathetic, she is sweet, she is loving, she is not an angry person, and I don't think she will ever be one. When she was little, I tried talking nonsense to her and she actually responded to me as if she understood it! Now, she gets subtle humor once in a while, and she only laughs inappropriately sometimes. I only tell her to stop if I think she is laughing in a phony manner, and really doesn't think it's funny, and just laughing to hear herself laugh. This is different from what I stated earlier that I wasn't allowed to chuckle socially at something I found humorous. I mean that woman attacked one Dad who was very good natured, and was totally agreeing with her! All because he had that social chuckle. I am not going to give up my NT ways for autism. No way, no how. Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2001 Report Share Posted November 24, 2001 In a message dated 11/24/01 10:48:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, Salli writes: > Psych with ASD: Yes, yes, those NT's. No real theory of mind, you know? > And they do lack empathy. But they can't help it; it's some neurological > glitch. > > A couple of months ago I went to a local monthly Autism Parents meeting, (one that I hadn't been to in many years) and witnessed something very distressing: There must have been 40 people at this one meeting, most parents of younger children like yours. Anyway, the introduction circle got around to these two adult autistics; one man, one woman. The woman was a very angry individual, and went on for some time about why the anger, and what made her angry. Mostly perseveration, she tongue lashed NT's (by the way, this was the first time I had ever heard the term " Neuotypical, " and she used it every other word) every time they even slightly chuckled when she said something mildly funny to us. Now NT's have a nervous laugh that is a chuckle of sorts, but never meant to be actually laughing AT anybody. She explained she ALWAYS takes it wrong, and proceeded to rant to the point of bringing 3/4 of the room to tears in guilt and empathy. My H and I were on opposing sides of this huge circle, yet we both felt exactly the same thing: Resentment. I resented her blaming, I resented her coming to a parent meeting and bringing NT's to their knees, I resented her autism. I resented being told I can't laugh at something I find humorous. I would not say this was a typical autistic attitude by any means, the man didn't seem all that angry, (I think they were together). She also went on for a long time, taking up a good 45 minutes of a 2 hour meeting, never quite feeling she was making her point. Her agitation got to fever pitch as she screamed at us, and I was fuming. Needless to say only half of the parents were introduced. My point is I don't believe autistics see things the same way, but I think they THINK other autistics do see things the same as they. Did I ever say I hated the term NT after that berating she gave us? My daughter is empathetic, she is sweet, she is loving, she is not an angry person, and I don't think she will ever be one. When she was little, I tried talking nonsense to her and she actually responded to me as if she understood it! Now, she gets subtle humor once in a while, and she only laughs inappropriately sometimes. I only tell her to stop if I think she is laughing in a phony manner, and really doesn't think it's funny, and just laughing to hear herself laugh. This is different from what I stated earlier that I wasn't allowed to chuckle socially at something I found humorous. I mean that woman attacked one Dad who was very good natured, and was totally agreeing with her! All because he had that social chuckle. I am not going to give up my NT ways for autism. No way, no how. Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2001 Report Share Posted November 24, 2001 > At least I think so. > > Do people with autism understand each other? > I believe they do. I also believe an Autistic child will gravitate to a child who is like them. My head hurts too much right now to explain my train of thought. That's my short answer. Penny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2001 Report Share Posted November 24, 2001 In a message dated 11/24/01 5:59:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, Salli writes: > Although I also think there are no guarantees. My sweet little baby Enrique > has turned out in ways I would never have guessed nor would I have wanted > and I think I have been loving and supportive of him throughout (and I know > he would agree). > > I was told by the program specialist, (who also is a parent to an autistic adult) to " Watch out! " Adolescence can change a perfectly well mannered, adjusted, sweet lovely autistic child into a schizophrenic heel on wheels. She scared me. I was all set to lose my child to the horrors or " Autistic adult syndrome. " Whatever that is. I hope that isn't what is happening to Enrique. It sounds so scary ************ I am friends with a woman who has two kids 13 and 14 with AS. When Aislynn is with either of them they never seem to understand each other. S (the boy) is mildly affected, with some speech, mostly perseverative and ehcolalic, and C (the girl) is mild and talks to people, but avoids those her own age. I have never seen any indication of " another language " or understanding between them, or even between the siblings. I think the AS adult relating was due to the fact she understands both worlds, enough to attempt communication in the first place, and may have a few insights, but no way are they speaking " Autism-eaze " to each other. If they don't want to communicate, they won't with anybody. ************* To think that someday our kids will hate us because of our trying to train them into the NT world so they can cope is probably the most upsetting thing I can think of, and self-defeating in our reasons for getting our kids the best teachers available. I know that's not what you were thinking, Salli, but after that woman's rant, I think about letting the wolves raise her. Might she be happier? Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2001 Report Share Posted November 24, 2001 Good for you, Barb! I'm glad you didn't give in to the browbeating. People who try to force you into a guilt trip that does NOT belong to you are beyond annoying. Now, I am sorry for any true injustices she may have encountered in her life, but that was way over the line and not the responsibility of the people who were there. (I just recently heard NT for the first time myself) Cinnamon -- In parenting_autism@y..., IBSourMouse@a... wrote: > In a message dated 11/24/01 10:48:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, Salli writes: > > > > Psych with ASD: Yes, yes, those NT's. No real theory of mind, you know? > > And they do lack empathy. But they can't help it; it's some neurological > > glitch. > > > > > A couple of months ago I went to a local monthly Autism Parents meeting, (one > that I hadn't been to in many years) and witnessed something very distressing: > > There must have been 40 people at this one meeting, most parents of younger > children like yours. Anyway, the introduction circle got around to these two > adult autistics; one man, one woman. The woman was a very angry individual, > and went on for some time about why the anger, and what made her angry. > > Mostly perseveration, she tongue lashed NT's (by the way, this was the first > time I had ever heard the term " Neuotypical, " and she used it every other > word) every time they even slightly chuckled when she said something mildly > funny to us. > > Now NT's have a nervous laugh that is a chuckle of sorts, but never meant to > be actually laughing AT anybody. She explained she ALWAYS takes it wrong, > and proceeded to rant to the point of bringing 3/4 of the room to tears in > guilt and empathy. > > My H and I were on opposing sides of this huge circle, yet we both felt > exactly the same thing: Resentment. > > I resented her blaming, I resented her coming to a parent meeting and > bringing NT's to their knees, I resented her autism. I resented being told I > can't laugh at something I find humorous. > > I would not say this was a typical autistic attitude by any means, the man > didn't seem all that angry, (I think they were together). > > She also went on for a long time, taking up a good 45 minutes of a 2 hour > meeting, never quite feeling she was making her point. Her agitation got to > fever pitch as she screamed at us, and I was fuming. Needless to say only > half of the parents were introduced. > > My point is I don't believe autistics see things the same way, but I think > they THINK other autistics do see things the same as they. > > Did I ever say I hated the term NT after that berating she gave us? > > My daughter is empathetic, she is sweet, she is loving, she is not an angry > person, and I don't think she will ever be one. > > When she was little, I tried talking nonsense to her and she actually > responded to me as if she understood it! Now, she gets subtle humor once in > a while, and she only laughs inappropriately sometimes. I only tell her to > stop if I think she is laughing in a phony manner, and really doesn't think > it's funny, and just laughing to hear herself laugh. This is different from > what I stated earlier that I wasn't allowed to chuckle socially at something > I found humorous. > > I mean that woman attacked one Dad who was very good natured, and was totally > agreeing with her! All because he had that social chuckle. > > I am not going to give up my NT ways for autism. > No way, no how. > Barb > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2001 Report Share Posted November 24, 2001 Barb: That is a very sad tale. I do not believe that my Putter will ever be an angry person; I don't think my silly little scene showed him as an angry individual. I supposed that that woman had suffered a great deal but she was not right to put her sufferings on a bunch of people who had had nothing to do with it and who probably desperately hoped to avoid raising such an unhappy child. I have seen autistic adults on other lists just really put everyone else off and at first the others attempt to be respectful -- I mean, this is someone who can tell them what their child is thinking. But can they? Putter is a happy person. Aislynn sounds as if she is too. And we are loving parents. I don't really believe that our children will have so much go wrong with their feelings. Although I also think there are no guarantees. My sweet little baby Enrique has turned out in ways I would never have guessed nor would I have wanted and I think I have been loving and supportive of him throughout (and I know he would agree). I am sorry that this woman held you hostage to her unhappiness. Salli > There must have been 40 people at this one meeting, most parents of younger > children like yours. Anyway, the introduction circle got around to these two > adult autistics; one man, one woman. The woman was a very angry individual, > and went on for some time about why the anger, and what made her angry. > > Mostly perseveration, she tongue lashed NT's (by the way, this was the first > time I had ever heard the term " Neuotypical, " and she used it every other > word) every time they even slightly chuckled when she said something mildly > funny to us. > > Now NT's have a nervous laugh that is a chuckle of sorts, but never meant to > be actually laughing AT anybody. She explained she ALWAYS takes it wrong, > and proceeded to rant to the point of bringing 3/4 of the room to tears in > guilt and empathy. > > My H and I were on opposing sides of this huge circle, yet we both felt > exactly the same thing: Resentment. > > I resented her blaming, I resented her coming to a parent meeting and > bringing NT's to their knees, I resented her autism. I resented being told I > can't laugh at something I find humorous. > > I would not say this was a typical autistic attitude by any means, the man > didn't seem all that angry, (I think they were together). > > She also went on for a long time, taking up a good 45 minutes of a 2 hour > meeting, never quite feeling she was making her point. Her agitation got to > fever pitch as she screamed at us, and I was fuming. Needless to say only > half of the parents were introduced. > > My point is I don't believe autistics see things the same way, but I think > they THINK other autistics do see things the same as they. > > Did I ever say I hated the term NT after that berating she gave us? > > My daughter is empathetic, she is sweet, she is loving, she is not an angry > person, and I don't think she will ever be one. > > When she was little, I tried talking nonsense to her and she actually > responded to me as if she understood it! Now, she gets subtle humor once in > a while, and she only laughs inappropriately sometimes. I only tell her to > stop if I think she is laughing in a phony manner, and really doesn't think > it's funny, and just laughing to hear herself laugh. This is different from > what I stated earlier that I wasn't allowed to chuckle socially at something > I found humorous. > > I mean that woman attacked one Dad who was very good natured, and was totally > agreeing with her! All because he had that social chuckle. > > I am not going to give up my NT ways for autism. > No way, no how. > Barb > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2001 Report Share Posted November 24, 2001 > My head hurts too much right now to explain my train of thought. Sorry to hear that, Penny. Go take some tylenol and lie down a bit and then tell me the long answer. Salli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2001 Report Share Posted November 24, 2001 This is my take on this based on observations of my son, who talks in autismese, but, who I understand for the most part. First of all, he can't stand to have someone hover over him while he's doing something- A. that someone will tell him not to do or B. tell him to do it another way. He resolves this by asking the person to leave the room, either before or during the activity. Its not that anyone will stop him, but, he takes whatever you say as criticism. Unfortunately, due to a lot of autistic kids " unusual " behavior there is a lot of correcting, for lack of a better word. It is also harder on autistics because they have difficulty with many things that NTs take for granted. So, self-esteem is hard to come by. So, when everything they do is " bad " . That is why praise is so important, to balance out the correcting. spent a year in a classroom with a teacher who felt he was a complete idiot, because he couldnt remember her name, and the more she treated him this way, the worse he did. This woman didnt have the brains to figure out that he was well aware of her feelings towards him(she also didnt have the brains to figure out how to put his favorite cd in the computer, something he could do since he was 4 years old). He has a new teacher this year, and he is doing well, a different child, more social, verbal. So, yet, the right teacher is very important. I believe my son is in the " common world " most of the time, just on his terms. He also uses his autistmease because we make an attempt to understand it, and bridge it to us. I am not so sure that he will end up hating me in the long run, because as he gets older he will see that he learned skills because we didnt leave him alone in " his world " Adolesence is a phase difficult for NTs. As for the lady in the meeting, she clearly didnt belong there, she needed a support group for HFA people with chips on their shoulders. Thea > In a message dated 11/24/01 5:59:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, Salli writes: > > > > Although I also think there are no guarantees. My sweet little baby Enrique > > has turned out in ways I would never have guessed nor would I have wanted > > and I think I have been loving and supportive of him throughout (and I know > > he would agree). > > > > > > I was told by the program specialist, (who also is a parent to an autistic > adult) to " Watch out! " Adolescence can change a perfectly well mannered, > adjusted, sweet lovely autistic child into a schizophrenic heel on wheels. > She scared me. I was all set to lose my child to the horrors or " Autistic > adult syndrome. " Whatever that is. > I hope that isn't what is happening to Enrique. It sounds so scary > ************ > I am friends with a woman who has two kids 13 and 14 with AS. When Aislynn > is with either of them they never seem to understand each other. S (the boy) > is mildly affected, with some speech, mostly perseverative and ehcolalic, and > C (the girl) is mild and talks to people, but avoids those her own age. I > have never seen any indication of " another language " or understanding between > them, or even between the siblings. > > I think the AS adult relating was due to the fact she understands both > worlds, enough to attempt communication in the first place, and may have a > few insights, but no way are they speaking " Autism-eaze " to each other. If > they don't want to communicate, they won't with anybody. > ************* > To think that someday our kids will hate us because of our trying to train > them into the NT world so they can cope is probably the most upsetting thing > I can think of, and self-defeating in our reasons for getting our kids the > best teachers available. > > I know that's not what you were thinking, Salli, but after that woman's rant, > I think about letting the wolves raise her. Might she be happier? > Barb > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 It is just amazing how well our kids will do when they are fortunate enough to have a teacher who gives a damn! Ginger __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 > Do people with autism understand each other? > I believe they do also...I observed some interesting happenings when Conor and I went to visit the new school a few weeks ago. Two boys who had been in class with him last year gravitated towards Conor...One of them kept saying his name and wanted to be near him, he was obviously very animated and excited. The other came over to Conor, patted him on the head, and then make a gesture to him like a handshake and he had a big smile on his face. Conor said " who are you, what's your name? " and he answered " " ...this is a child who Conor talked often of last year. Now Conor's reactions to them both and anyone else who went to school with him last year was very guarded. I think it has to do with what he is remembering from last year, which wasn't a very nice situation apparently. Pam Mom to and Conor Check out our webpage and sign our guestbook <A HREF= " http://www.geocities.com/oceangirl65/index.html " >Yahoo! GeoCities - oceangirl65's Home Page</A> For all my swapboard friends...leave feedback here <A HREF= " http://209.164.119.207/55/mom2ri.html " >A1-Traders View User Feedback for MOM2RI@...</A> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2001 Report Share Posted November 26, 2001 My sister says that she is good at watching Kep because she " understands " him. Kep is very comfortable with her but I think that is because she doesn't make demands and she lets him watch the same video 10 times in a row. Yes, she certainly understands him! Amy H--in Michigan Kepler 4 1/2 ASD and Bethany 6 NT " There is so much good in the worst of us, and so much bad in the best of us, that it behooves all of us not to talk about the rest of us. " ~ Louis son _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2001 Report Share Posted November 26, 2001 that's it, Mitchel is staying 6!! Kerri Mom to: Mitchel 6, Autistic 8.5 - NT See the Family: http://www.johnswdwpage.com/family.htm " I thank God and America for the right to live and raise my family under the flag of tolerance, democracy and freedom. " -Walt Disney I was told by the program specialist, (who also is a parent to an autistic adult) to " Watch out! " Adolescence can change a perfectly well mannered, adjusted, sweet lovely autistic child into a schizophrenic heel on wheels. She scared me. I was all set to lose my child to the horrors or " Autistic adult syndrome. " Whatever that is. I hope that isn't what is happening to Enrique. It sounds so scary ************ I am friends with a woman who has two kids 13 and 14 with AS. When Aislynn is with either of them they never seem to understand each other. S (the boy) is mildly affected, with some speech, mostly perseverative and ehcolalic, and C (the girl) is mild and talks to people, but avoids those her own age. I have never seen any indication of " another language " or understanding between them, or even between the siblings. I think the AS adult relating was due to the fact she understands both worlds, enough to attempt communication in the first place, and may have a few insights, but no way are they speaking " Autism-eaze " to each other. If they don't want to communicate, they won't with anybody. ************* To think that someday our kids will hate us because of our trying to train them into the NT world so they can cope is probably the most upsetting thing I can think of, and self-defeating in our reasons for getting our kids the best teachers available. I know that's not what you were thinking, Salli, but after that woman's rant, I think about letting the wolves raise her. Might she be happier? Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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