Guest guest Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 Treatment resistant just means that the drugs don't work and then doctors are a loss because they are useless at therapy. ACT is about being with the anxiety rather than curing it, although it probably will eventually get it under contol, or get it down to normal levels, which is great. ACT doesn't concern itself with 'Treatment resistant' and this is its strength. You can live a meaningful and fulfilling life despite anxiety, and yet learning to live like this will problably cure pathological anxiety. No one is completely free from worry and concerns. The mistake people make is to believe that to be happy and live a meaningful life we have to be perfectly confident and free of concernsl, but this only happens in the movies. y Depp suffers terrible depressions, and Heath Ledger perished because of unhappiness. ACT will help you to become free despite anxiety, and this lowers anxiety in the end. KV > > > Hi, > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that? > > Simone > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 The short answer is that " Treatment Resistant " is usually a label that some professionals include in their assessment of a client, typically when they don't observe what they deem as progress after a period of time, and usually after they've tried a few different things (suggestions, interventions) in their effort to help the client. It's rather arbitrarily applied and for that and other reasons, it's not really very useful for either the provider or the client. At least not from where I stand now, knowing what I know. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any ACT folks relying on this term much (if at all). Hope that helps. best, Terry > > > Hi, > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that? > > Simone > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 Loads of us here have treatment resiatant dosorders, in fact, some of the founders of ACT had treatment resistant disorders too. Many people have got a lot out of ACT and gone on to live interesting and rewarding lives. As we get back into life with all its glories, many of our problems will start to recede and become less bothersome. It's a skill, like learning to ride a bike, or learning how to swim. Some will completely elliminate their anxiety and some might not, but what does it matter when anxiety is not an issue anymore. Loads of performers get stage fright and for some it becomes a illness for a while. Many performers never completely overcome this fear but they love performing anyway, and so stage fright becomes not a big issue for them anymore, they learn to manage it. Anyhow, that's how I see it. KV > > > > > > Hi, > > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment > resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that? > > > > Simone > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 Even the most successful people we know suffer anxiety. Donny Osmond, Barbra Streisand, and ce Olivier for example. ce Olivier turned me onto the glory that is Shakespeare big time back in the late 1960s. His performance in Othello was a big and very moving revelation. I've been a big fan of the bard ever since. At the height of his career, he suffered from stage fright and social anxiety for several years. And yet he continued performing on spite of it. Greatness is not an insurance against anxiety. We all experience it, no matter how successful we are and how much we achieve. The greatest people we know are still human beings, with all the difficulties that being human entails. The best of them are good role models, because they do what they do and achieve what they achieve without letting their anxieties overwhelm them and stop them doing what they love to do and what they value.. We may not be able to do what they can do, but, if we follow their example, we can still do a lot and live a full and happy life. Cheers, Stan > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment > > resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that? > > > > > > Simone > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 I see what you are saying Kv - I get the performers thing. It's just that with me, I'll only go on stage under my conditions and I spend a lot of time in the wings worrying that I should go on stage and then feeling bad because I don't. I've been doing ACT a long time and it has helped in many different ways - and I have taken risks- and do take risks in other areas. But it makes me fee really bad when I don't live up to being a good ACT student. Simone Subject: Re: Treatment ResistantTo: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Wednesday, 13 April, 2011, 8:05 Loads of us here have treatment resiatant dosorders, in fact, some ofthe founders of ACT had treatment resistant disorders too. Many peoplehave got a lot out of ACT and gone on to live interesting and rewardinglives. As we get back into life with all its glories, many of ourproblems will start to recede and become less bothersome. It's a skill,like learning to ride a bike, or learning how to swim. Some willcompletely elliminate their anxiety and some might not, but what does itmatter when anxiety is not an issue anymore. Loads of performers getstage fright and for some it becomes a illness for a while. Manyperformers never completely overcome this fear but they love performinganyway, and so stage fright becomes not a big issue for them anymore,they learn to manage it.Anyhow, that's how I see it.KV> >> >> > Hi,> > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment> resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that?> >> > Simone> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 But it makes me fee really bad when I don't live up to being a good ACT student. Yes, me too, Simone, and I wrote about this here recently. I was feeling particulary bad because I approached something very frightening on two occasions and run away each time instead. Anyway, I have some lesser goals to achieve which are still pretty tough for me, so it is best to start where I can. If I achieve these things it will enormously raise my self esteem and should make any next stage I go for easier. Last week I was trying to defuse from thoughts about how useless I was while trying to expand into my unbearable feelings of guilt and failure. Hmmm, I'm off work this week and I am having a rest, phew! I was in so much pain last week, though, as people might have noticed from my post and I hope I never go through anything like that again, but now doubt I will. Acceptance, yeah, that's it, I hope, but I am not looking forward to it one bit. Kv > > >> > >> > > Hi,> > > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment> > resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that?> > >> > > Simone> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 I have experienced anxiety whilst teaching - and went on to deliver a good class despite the anxiety. I just can't seem to do it with other domains of my life. That's why I wonder if I am treatment resistant. But I guess I'm just looking for a label - to stick on my cowardice.. Oh well que sera... Simone Subject: Re: Treatment ResistantTo: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Wednesday, 13 April, 2011, 8:59 Even the most successful people we know suffer anxiety. Donny Osmond, Barbra Streisand, and ce Olivier for example.ce Olivier turned me onto the glory that is Shakespeare big time back in the late 1960s. His performance in Othello was a big and very moving revelation. I've been a big fan of the bard ever since. At the height of his career, he suffered from stage fright and social anxiety for several years. And yet he continued performing on spite of it.Greatness is not an insurance against anxiety. We all experience it, no matter how successful we are and how much we achieve.The greatest people we know are still human beings, with all the difficulties that being human entails. The best of them are good role models, because they do what they do and achieve what they achieve without letting their anxieties overwhelm them and stop them doing what they love to do and what they value..We may not be able to do what they can do, but, if we follow their example, we can still do a lot and live a full and happy life.Cheers,Stan> > >> > >> > > Hi,> > > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment> > resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that?> > >> > > Simone> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 This is the tricky point, now you are telling yourself off, and making yourself feel bad. This lowers self esteem even more making even harder to face anxiety. Don't use the label 'Treatment Resistant' because you are not like that. Things are tough and maybe will be for some time to come. I sometimes wonder that I could use the word treatment resistant, but what good does that do, why get entangled with this. Sometimes we can be a bit treatment resistant and other times not, so maybe we need to be patient and let things be allowing changes to occur slowly. I just got your new post. Don't despair because ACT has to work. If nothing gets better then you have acceptance to work with, and if this is done properly, with mindfulness, the pain will melt away. I can't meditate or be that mindful but one day I will be able to and then I reckon I will make strides. I have the new book by Les Fehmi, called Disolving Pain. All good mindfulness based techniques will dissolve pain, psychological stress, anxiety, and unhappiness. There is a new book out called the Mindful Way Through Anxiety, and as the depression book in the series was so good, I bought this one too. But I needn't have becasue it is just ACT with values and everything. Anyhow, the point is, if you are feeling bad because you are not fully facing some anxiety issues then ACT can be used on this. ACT should never make a person feel unhappy or bad about themselves. Well, a little bit for a while is okay becasue that can motivalte you, but there comes a point where you have to stop beating yourself up. We can only move to where we want to be in small stages. Kv > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment > > > resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that? > > > > > > > > Simone > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 You might find a mind machine easier. I like the Procyon one but, alas, my mind is so full of rubbish I'm soon lost in thoughts and not taking much notice of the visuals and sounds. It is a stunning visual display, though. http://www.amazon.com/MindPlace-Procyon-System-Eternal-Elements/dp/B000X2BSJM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 & qid=1302724238 & sr=1-1-catcorr If you can afford it, there is a new one called Laxman, but it is incredibly expensive. People reckon it is amazing, though. By for now, Kv > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Hi,> > > > > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment> > > > resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that?> > > > >> > > > > Simone> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 Not my kind of thing Kavy - I prefer the technicolour, surround sound, 3D, antics of my own mind. Good old basic mindfulness - keep it simple. Simone Subject: Re: Treatment ResistantTo: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Wednesday, 13 April, 2011, 20:55 You might find a mind machine easier. I like the Procyon one but, alas, my mind is so full of rubbish I'm soon lost in thoughts and not taking much notice of the visuals and sounds. It is a stunning visual display, though. http://www.amazon.com/MindPlace-Procyon-System-Eternal-Elements/dp/B000X2BSJM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 & qid=1302724238 & sr=1-1-catcorr If you can afford it, there is a new one called Laxman, but it is incredibly expensive. People reckon it is amazing, though. By for now, Kv > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Hi,> > > > > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment> > > > resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that?> > > > >> > > > > Simone> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 I'd prefer some black and white silent movies. Mine are like yours, Simone, with moments of Procyon. Bill To: ACT_for_the_Public From: adrianandboo@...Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 22:59:57 +0100Subject: Re: Re: Treatment Resistant Not my kind of thing Kavy - I prefer the technicolour, surround sound, 3D, antics of my own mind. Good old basic mindfulness - keep it simple. Simone Subject: Re: Treatment ResistantTo: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Wednesday, 13 April, 2011, 20:55 You might find a mind machine easier. I like the Procyon one but, alas, my mind is so full of rubbish I'm soon lost in thoughts and not taking much notice of the visuals and sounds. It is a stunning visual display, though. http://www.amazon.com/MindPlace-Procyon-System-Eternal-Elements/dp/B000X2BSJM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 & qid=1302724238 & sr=1-1-catcorr If you can afford it, there is a new one called Laxman, but it is incredibly expensive. People reckon it is amazing, though. By for now, Kv > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Hi,> > > > > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment> > > > resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that?> > > > >> > > > > Simone> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 Nothing beats the pure peace of simple meditation, when it can be achieved. But I have real trouble with it so I bought the mind machine to see if could help start me off. But, alas, my mind still kept wandering. Kv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment > > > > > resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that? > > > > > > > > > > > > Simone > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 Kv, You'll never stop your mind wandering. The important thing is the bringing it back. Again, and again, and again, and again....wandering will never stop- but like a puppy it can be trained to sit for short periods, and then longer. Jon Kabat Zinn Cds are really a really good guidewire. Simone Subject: Re: Treatment ResistantTo: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Thursday, 14 April, 2011, 11:22 Nothing beats the pure peace of simple meditation, when it can be achieved. But I have real trouble with it so I bought the mind machine to see if could help start me off. But, alas, my mind still kept wandering.Kv> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Hi,> > > > > > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment> > > > > resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that?> > > > > >> > > > > > Simone> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 I've been through many years of CBT, and 2 years of ACT therapy with a clinical psychologist; various medications, and psychodynamic psychotherapy from a psychiatrist. I've made very little progress with this episode. My agoraphobia has been labelled treatment resistent by a clinical psych (yes one who uses ACT amongst other therapies). My latest diagnosis is avoidant personality disorder . None of these labels help. I don't believe that any therapy helps, I just need to accept my situation. Once they tell you are personality disordered, there really isn't much hope now is there. In fact a previous dr told me that there is nothing more that can be done- maybe i should have listened to them years ago and not wasted my money on further treatment. > > > > > > Hi, > > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that? > > > > Simone > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 If you have insurance coverage, they probably had to give you a diagnostic label in order for your therapy/medication to be paid for. You, however, don't have to label yourself. Just because they tell you that you have a personality disorder and that it is treatment resistant does not mean there is no hope (well, perhaps not from the medical establishment, but that isn't your only recourse). There is always hope - but perhaps not the outcome you would desire in the best-case scenario. Acceptance: is that all there is? Maybe, but it's a wonderful thing! But it's as good as it can be only when paired with action in the direction of our goals - doing the best we can even though we are "impaired" in some way (and aren't we all?), and even if our best is not good enough in the eyes of others who don't walk in your shoes. Helena Re: Treatment Resistant I've been through many years of CBT, and 2 years of ACT therapy with a clinical psychologist; various medications, and psychodynamic psychotherapy from a psychiatrist. I've made very little progress with this episode. My agoraphobia has been labelled treatment resistent by a clinical psych (yes one who uses ACT amongst other therapies). My latest diagnosis is avoidant personality disorder . None of these labels help. I don't believe that any therapy helps, I just need to accept my situation.Once they tell you are personality disordered, there really isn't much hope now is there. In fact a previous dr told me that there is nothing more that can be done- maybe i should have listened to them years ago and not wasted my money on further treatment. > >> > > > Hi,> > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that?> > > > Simone> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 Oopsie! Change "goals" to "values" in the last sentence. Re: Treatment Resistant I've been through many years of CBT, and 2 years of ACT therapy with a clinical psychologist; various medications, and psychodynamic psychotherapy from a psychiatrist. I've made very little progress with this episode. My agoraphobia has been labelled treatment resistent by a clinical psych (yes one who uses ACT amongst other therapies). My latest diagnosis is avoidant personality disorder . None of these labels help. I don't believe that any therapy helps, I just need to accept my situation.Once they tell you are personality disordered, there really isn't much hope now is there. In fact a previous dr told me that there is nothing more that can be done- maybe i should have listened to them years ago and not wasted my money on further treatment. > >> > > > Hi,> > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that?> > > > Simone> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 Well, I don't know about all this. And the professionals on site are ominously quiet, I wonder why? All I know is that when I keep it simple, keep it compassionate, and stop pushing and struggling - things get better. When I stop trying to 'fix' myself. 'There is nothing more that can be done' - maybe healing lies in that phrase? Simone Subject: Re: Treatment ResistantTo: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Thursday, 14 April, 2011, 15:48 I've been through many years of CBT, and 2 years of ACT therapy with a clinical psychologist; various medications, and psychodynamic psychotherapy from a psychiatrist. I've made very little progress with this episode. My agoraphobia has been labelled treatment resistent by a clinical psych (yes one who uses ACT amongst other therapies). My latest diagnosis is avoidant personality disorder . None of these labels help. I don't believe that any therapy helps, I just need to accept my situation.Once they tell you are personality disordered, there really isn't much hope now is there. In fact a previous dr told me that there is nothing more that can be done- maybe i should have listened to them years ago and not wasted my money on further treatment. > >> > > > Hi,> > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that?> > > > Simone> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 Such an uplifting, HOPEFUL, and compassionate reply Helena!! As usual in this group,a response meant for one is meaningful to so many!!! > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that? > > > > > > Simone > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 I have had the same thoughts about easing up on the " fixing " of myself. I totally agree with you. I went back this morning and reread the myths at the beginning of The Happiness Trap. It helped me to remind myself of the underlying expectations I still have to some degree although hopefully I don't buy into them like I did at the beginning of this process. It made me realize how easy it is to fall back into believing the myths of happiness being a natural state, being defective if I can't achieve happiness, having to rid myself of negative thoughts, and trying to control thoughts and feelings. Sometimes my struggle switch is so automatic that I don't even realize I am struggling until I look back on the situation. This is definitely a half step at a time process!! > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that? > > > > > > Simone > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 Happiness is not a natural state. Our brains evolved to be problem-solving machines. How to find food. How to avoid being eaten. How to find a mate. How to get along with the rest of our tribe. Even though here in the twenty-first century most of lead a comfortable and risk-free life, our brain continues doing what it evolved to do: imagine problems and try to solve them. It creates all sorts of what-if scenarios to prepare us for what might happen to us. What do I do if the person I'm with doesn't like me? What if I can't find a soul-mate to spend the rest of my life with? What if I stuff up at work and get sacked? The Big Secret that ACT teaches us is that we don't have to take what our brains come up with in an effort to solve our often imaginary problems seriously. It means well, it's only trying to help us and help us survive and thrive. But it often gets it wrong and gives us grief. The answer, it seems to me, is to thank our brain for trying to look after us, and turn off the struggle-switch. It's going to do what it evolved to do, and the quicker we accept that fact, the better. Cheers, Stan > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about treatment resistant anxiety disorders and how ACT approaches that? > > > > > > > > Simone > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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