Re: What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

March 27, 2011

Amber,

Why do you think that? Do you think we are perfect here? We are all struggling. I asked what brought you to ACT, and I would really like to know before you write us off. I do care.

Helena

What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is a ""unique behavior change"" approach based on modern learning theory and Relational Frame Theory (RFT) that emphasizes instead""the role of mindfulenss""and commitment strategies, including"" acceptance,""defusion, ""contact with the present moment""a transcendent ""sense of self"" values, and creating larger patterns of committed action

March 27, 2011

This thread just shows me how easily I get hooked into dysfunction. Damn! I really wish I would stop thinking I can help when I can't. I knew better than to get drawn into this, yet I did. Thought I could help. What a joke!!!

This had nothing to do with ACT from the get-go. That should have clued me in. But, no, I wanted to reach out to this person who appeared to be interested in ACT.

I feel like a fool who got sucked in.

--- Original Message -----To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 8:20:29 PMSubject: Re: What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Amber,

Why do you think that? Do you think we are perfect here? We are all struggling. I asked what brought you to ACT, and I would really like to know before you write us off. I do care.

Helena

What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is a ""unique behavior change"" approach based on modern learning theory and Relational Frame Theory (RFT) that emphasizes instead""the role of mindfulenss""and commitment strategies, including"" acceptance,""defusion, ""contact with the present moment""a transcendent ""sense of self"" values, and creating larger patterns of committed action

March 27, 2011

*smiles big and hands Helena her membership card to the easily-hooked-by-wanting-to-help club*

also shows her my own which is tattered and worn from years and years of use

Someone told me recently that my " heart " or wanting to help (and do it correctly) was appreciated because what kind of person would I be if I didnt care? Even though I often go round and round on whether I helped, whether I did it " right " and other thoughts that are not helpful in these contexts, its a big part of my " I am " is to be caring. So I guess I " ll just hang on to the card and keep walking in that direction.

This thread just shows me how easily I get hooked into dysfunction. Damn! I really wish I would stop thinking I can help when I can't. I knew better than to get drawn into this, yet I did. Thought I could help. What a joke!!!

This had nothing to do with ACT from the get-go. That should have clued me in. But, no, I wanted to reach out to this person who appeared to be interested in ACT.

I feel like a fool who got sucked in.

--- Original Message -----To: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 8:20:29 PMSubject: Re: What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Amber,

Why do you think that? Do you think we are perfect here? We are all struggling. I asked what brought you to ACT, and I would really like to know before you write us off. I do care.

Helena

What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is a " " unique behavior change " " approach based on modern learning theory and Relational Frame Theory (RFT) that emphasizes instead " " the role of mindfulenss " "

and commitment strategies, including " " acceptance, " " defusion, " " contact with the present moment " " a transcendent " " sense of self " " values, and creating larger patterns of committed action

--

March 27, 2011

Take it easy. You tried to help, you gave her a hand; the rest is not your responsibility. Personally, I would not give someone like that a hand in the first place. When I see this mix of bizarre behavior + aggression, I don't get emotionally involved. Not that she would be able to see the difference.

This thread just shows me how easily I get hooked into dysfunction. Damn! I really wish I would stop thinking I can help when I can't. I knew better than to get drawn into this, yet I did. Thought I could help. What a joke!!!

This had nothing to do with ACT from the get-go. That should have clued me in. But, no, I wanted to reach out to this person who appeared to be interested in ACT.

I feel like a fool who got sucked in.

--- Original Message -----To: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 8:20:29 PMSubject: Re: What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Amber,

Why do you think that? Do you think we are perfect here? We are all struggling. I asked what brought you to ACT, and I would really like to know before you write us off. I do care.

Helena

What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is a " " unique behavior change " " approach based on modern learning theory and Relational Frame Theory (RFT) that emphasizes instead " " the role of mindfulenss " "

and commitment strategies, including " " acceptance, " " defusion, " " contact with the present moment " " a transcendent " " sense of self " " values, and creating larger patterns of committed action

March 27, 2011

Thanks.

What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is a ""unique behavior change"" approach based on modern learning theory and Relational Frame Theory (RFT) that emphasizes instead""the role of mindfulenss""and commitment strategies, including"" acceptance,""defusion, ""contact with the present moment""a transcendent ""sense of self"" values, and creating larger patterns of committed action

March 27, 2011

I guess I will keep my tattered card handy, too.

Helena

What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is a ""unique behavior change"" approach based on modern learning theory and Relational Frame Theory (RFT) that emphasizes instead""the role of mindfulenss""and commitment strategies, including"" acceptance,""defusion, ""contact with the present moment""a transcendent ""sense of self"" values, and creating larger patterns of committed action

--

March 27, 2011

Hi Guys,

Helena - I agree with Jane.

, thanks for your post. I'm a card holder too, it turns out! It's

taken me to many amazing, weird and high and low places. The value

thats 'in' your card is apparent to me from your post and it has

really encouraged me to carry my card in the manner you've described.

I'm currently unhooking myself from hooky thoughts regarding a needy

organization.

Jane, I think it's good that you challenge people - I think you

queried something I posted recently and I'm still doing the homework.

So thanks.

Grant

> Take it easy. You tried to help, you gave her a hand; the rest is not your

> responsibility.

>

> Personally, I would not give someone like that a hand in the first place.

> When I see this mix of bizarre behavior + aggression, I don't get

> emotionally involved. Not that she would be able to see the difference.

>

>>

>> This thread just shows me how easily I get hooked into dysfunction. Damn!

>> I really wish I would stop thinking I can help when I can't. I knew

>> better

>> than to get drawn into this, yet I did. Thought I could help. What a

>> joke!!!

>>

>> This had nothing to do with ACT from the get-go. That should have clued

>> me

>> in. But, no, I wanted to reach out to this person who appeared to be

>> interested in ACT.

>>

>> I feel like a fool who got sucked in.

>>

>> --- Original Message -----

>>

>> To: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

>> Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 8:20:29 PM

>> Subject: Re: What an insult to any person actually

>> seeking a credible group for therapy.

>>

>> Amber,

>>

>> Why do you think that? Do you think we are perfect here? We are all

>> struggling. I asked what brought you to ACT, and I would really like to

>> know before you write us off. I do care.

>>

>> Helena

>>

>> What an insult to any person actually

>> seeking a credible group for therapy.

>>

>> Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is a

>> " " unique behavior change " "

>> approach based on modern learning theory and Relational Frame Theory (RFT)

>> that emphasizes instead

>> " " the role of mindfulenss " "

>>

>> and commitment strategies, including

>> " " acceptance, " "

>> defusion,

>> " " contact with the present moment " "

>> a transcendent " " sense of self " " values, and creating larger patterns of

>> committed action

>>

>

March 27, 2011

Dear hbbr,Your help and advice did not come to naught. Whoever that dysfunctional fool is, he/she will have his/her day of judgment. As for the rest of us, we are benefiteddirectly or indirectly on the advises you give. You're a kind and giving person. You are continually blessed. Have a nice day and keep spreading goodness around!roger From: hbbr

To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Mon, March 28, 2011 8:32:50 AMSubject: Re: What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

This thread just shows me how easily I get hooked into dysfunction. Damn! I really wish I would stop thinking I can help when I can't. I knew better than to get drawn into this, yet I did. Thought I could help. What a joke!!!

This had nothing to do with ACT from the get-go. That should have clued me in. But, no, I wanted to reach out to this person who appeared to be interested in ACT.

I feel like a fool who got sucked in.

--- Original Message -----To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 8:20:29 PMSubject: Re: What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Amber,

Why do you think that? Do you think we are perfect here? We are all struggling. I asked what brought you to ACT, and I would really like to know before you write us off. I do care.

Helena

What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is a ""unique behavior change"" approach based on modern learning theory and Relational Frame Theory (RFT) that emphasizes instead""the role of mindfulenss""and commitment strategies, including"" acceptance,""defusion, ""contact with the present moment""a transcendent ""sense of self"" values, and creating larger patterns of committed action

March 27, 2011

Here is a thought. I wonder if our conditioning to be always helpful and non-confrontational awakens our passive-aggressive side. I do see it in myself a lot - when I used to pride myself on being non-judgmental.

The way I see it now, acting non-judgmental is for the saints, for people who've progressed in their spiritual/intellectual development to that level. I am not on that level, and pretending to be, I think, creates more problems than it solves. (I am only speaking for myself here, not saying anyone else is doing that!) It's cheesy. It's dishonest to the boot. If we are dishonest for the sake of the social grace, sure then, that's fine, as long as we are honest with ourselves. Helena, you sure you truly wanted to help as that person was spitting in your hand? If you did, my hat goes off to you (telling you that as a man to a man :-) ), but if you did, then why were you hurt so much? Maybe by accepting her, you were longing to be accepted yourself? Ain't gonna happen..

In the ACT spirit, is not it " controlling your thoughts " ?It's OK to withdraw your hand once they spit at it, IMHO. Quite liberating actually.

Dear hbbr,Your help and advice did not come to naught. Whoever that dysfunctional fool is, he/she will have his/her day of judgment. As for the rest of us, we are benefited

directly or indirectly on the advises you give. You're a kind and giving person. You are continually blessed. Have a nice day and keep spreading goodness around!roger

From: hbbr

To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Mon, March 28, 2011 8:32:50 AMSubject: Re: What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

This thread just shows me how easily I get hooked into dysfunction. Damn! I really wish I would stop thinking I can help when I can't. I knew better than to get drawn into this, yet I did. Thought I could help. What a joke!!!

This had nothing to do with ACT from the get-go. That should have clued me in. But, no, I wanted to reach out to this person who appeared to be interested in ACT.

I feel like a fool who got sucked in.

--- Original Message -----To: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 8:20:29 PMSubject: Re: What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Amber,

Why do you think that? Do you think we are perfect here? We are all struggling. I asked what brought you to ACT, and I would really like to know before you write us off. I do care.

Helena

What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is a " " unique behavior change " " approach based on modern learning theory and Relational Frame Theory (RFT) that emphasizes instead " " the role of mindfulenss " "

and commitment strategies, including " " acceptance, " " defusion, " " contact with the present moment " " a transcendent " " sense of self " " values, and creating larger patterns of committed action

March 27, 2011

why are you people still emailing me? i left the group is that not enough? having multiple members trashing me and then emailing me privately ???? does the group really need a rag doll to kick and abuse so badly???? Do not walk in behind me, I may not lead.Do not walk in front of me, I may not follow.Walk beside me. And just be my friend.Blessings be upon you )O( AmberTo: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 9:26 PMSubject: Re: What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Here is a thought. I wonder if our conditioning to be always helpful and non-confrontational awakens our passive-aggressive side. I do see it in myself a lot - when I used to pride myself on being non-judgmental.

The way I see it now, acting non-judgmental is for the saints, for people who've progressed in their spiritual/intellectual development to that level. I am not on that level, and pretending to be, I think, creates more problems than it solves. (I am only speaking for myself here, not saying anyone else is doing that!) It's cheesy. It's dishonest to the boot. If we are dishonest for the sake of the social grace, sure then, that's fine, as long as we are honest with ourselves. Helena, you sure you truly wanted to help as that person was spitting in your hand? If you did, my hat goes off to you (telling you that as a man to a man :-) ), but if you did, then why were you hurt so much? Maybe by accepting her, you were longing to be accepted yourself? Ain't gonna happen..

In the ACT spirit, is not it "controlling your thoughts"?It's OK to withdraw your hand once they spit at it, IMHO. Quite liberating actually.

Dear hbbr,Your help and advice did not come to naught. Whoever that dysfunctional fool is, he/she will have his/her day of judgment. As for the rest of us, we are benefited

directly or indirectly on the advises you give. You're a kind and giving person. You are continually blessed. Have a nice day and keep spreading goodness around!roger

From: hbbr

To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Mon, March 28, 2011 8:32:50 AMSubject: Re: What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

This thread just shows me how easily I get hooked into dysfunction. Damn! I really wish I would stop thinking I can help when I can't. I knew better than to get drawn into this, yet I did. Thought I could help. What a joke!!!

This had nothing to do with ACT from the get-go. That should have clued me in. But, no, I wanted to reach out to this person who appeared to be interested in ACT.

I feel like a fool who got sucked in.

--- Original Message -----To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 8:20:29 PMSubject: Re: What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Amber,

Why do you think that? Do you think we are perfect here? We are all struggling. I asked what brought you to ACT, and I would really like to know before you write us off. I do care.

Helena

What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is a ""unique behavior change"" approach based on modern learning theory and Relational Frame Theory (RFT) that emphasizes instead""the role of mindfulenss""

and commitment strategies, including"" acceptance,""defusion, ""contact with the present moment""a transcendent ""sense of self"" values, and creating larger patterns of committed action

March 27, 2011

Good point. So true. Once help is given, it's given...doesn't matter if the person being helped appreciates it or not. But if said person spits back or derides the help beinggiven/offered, then that person is not only ungrateful, it's worse than that. We just wish we have less encounters of this type in our lives.To:

ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Mon, March 28, 2011 10:26:04 AMSubject: Re: What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Here is a thought. I wonder if our conditioning to be always helpful and non-confrontational awakens our passive-aggressive side. I do see it in myself a lot - when I used to pride myself on being non-judgmental.

The way I see it now, acting non-judgmental is for the saints, for people who've progressed in their spiritual/intellectual development to that level. I am not on that level, and pretending to be, I think, creates more problems than it solves. (I am only speaking for myself here, not saying anyone else is doing that!) It's cheesy. It's dishonest to the boot. If we are dishonest for the sake of the social grace, sure then, that's fine, as long as we are honest with ourselves. Helena, you sure you truly wanted to help as that person was spitting in your hand? If you did, my hat goes off to you (telling you that as a man to a man :-) ), but if you did, then why were you hurt so much? Maybe by accepting her, you were longing to be accepted yourself? Ain't gonna happen..

In the ACT spirit, is not it "controlling your thoughts"?It's OK to withdraw your hand once they spit at it, IMHO. Quite liberating actually.

Dear hbbr,Your help and advice did not come to naught. Whoever that dysfunctional fool is, he/she will have his/her day of judgment. As for the rest of us, we are benefited

directly or indirectly on the advises you give. You're a kind and giving person. You are continually blessed. Have a nice day and keep spreading goodness around!roger

From: hbbr

To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Mon, March 28, 2011 8:32:50 AMSubject: Re: What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

This thread just shows me how easily I get hooked into dysfunction. Damn! I really wish I would stop thinking I can help when I can't. I knew better than to get drawn into this, yet I did. Thought I could help. What a joke!!!

This had nothing to do with ACT from the get-go. That should have clued me in. But, no, I wanted to reach out to this person who appeared to be interested in ACT.

I feel like a fool who got sucked in.

--- Original Message -----To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 8:20:29 PMSubject: Re: What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Amber,

Why do you think that? Do you think we are perfect here? We are all struggling. I asked what brought you to ACT, and I would really like to know before you write us off. I do care.

Helena

What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is a ""unique behavior change"" approach based on modern learning theory and Relational Frame Theory (RFT) that emphasizes instead""the role of mindfulenss""

and commitment strategies, including"" acceptance,""defusion, ""contact with the present moment""a transcendent ""sense of self"" values, and creating larger patterns of committed action

March 27, 2011

Sure its OK to withdraw the hand ... but be ready to put it back out.The thought " this person is being a jerk " etc is of course normal.The problem with fusion with it is that it says more than we know

and it feeds a process that harms us. How that happensOK. So I'm working with a person who is all over the place. Slapping. Poking. Sarcasm.Then we find out she was being abused repeatedly by Dad at age 5.

Does that take away the " this person is being a jerk " thought?Not exactly. Does it add some compassion? It might. If we fusebig time with " this person is being a jerk " no it will not. Not much.

It just gets more mindy ... not really more compassionate(excuse making)Now the cost part.You know your own abuse stories (etc etc). You know your history.And yeah maybe we don't have that big " explanation " but

we all have that vulnerable part.So now you are showing your own ass ... like our short visited list membertoday (she says she quit the list ... but as you can see she is still posting to it). Maybe not quite so dramatically, but you are doing it.

And you are fusing with your thoughts big time.Does knowing our own painful history and vulnerabilities add some self-compassion? It might. If we fuse

big time with " I'm such a jerk " no it will not. Not much.

It just gets more mindy ... not really more self-compassionate.It is just excuse making.So when we slow down and let go of judgments (even when we have them)and find a place to be more compassionate really we are practicing

the exact skills that we will need with ourselves next time we show our ass big time.If you are like me, that could be tomorrowFor the sake of the children we once were its worth slowing downwhen judgment gets rolling because that skills is like a gun that fires in all directions

including back at youIf you want to see the whole process, Amber is laying it out for us very clearly ...on both sides of this. It raw and painful to watch.In the mirror tooI hope she finds a way forward ...

- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062 " Love isn't everything, it's the only thing "

hayes@... or stevenchayes@...Fax: Psych Department: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be):

Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mindHuffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phd

If you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes

http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.com

If you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar.

If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join

orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., " Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life " etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join

Here is a thought. I wonder if our conditioning to be always helpful and non-confrontational awakens our passive-aggressive side. I do see it in myself a lot - when I used to pride myself on being non-judgmental.

The way I see it now, acting non-judgmental is for the saints, for people who've progressed in their spiritual/intellectual development to that level. I am not on that level, and pretending to be, I think, creates more problems than it solves. (I am only speaking for myself here, not saying anyone else is doing that!) It's cheesy. It's dishonest to the boot. If we are dishonest for the sake of the social grace, sure then, that's fine, as long as we are honest with ourselves. Helena, you sure you truly wanted to help as that person was spitting in your hand? If you did, my hat goes off to you (telling you that as a man to a man :-) ), but if you did, then why were you hurt so much? Maybe by accepting her, you were longing to be accepted yourself? Ain't gonna happen..

In the ACT spirit, is not it " controlling your thoughts " ?It's OK to withdraw your hand once they spit at it, IMHO. Quite liberating actually.

Dear hbbr,Your help and advice did not come to naught. Whoever that dysfunctional fool is, he/she will have his/her day of judgment. As for the rest of us, we are benefited

directly or indirectly on the advises you give. You're a kind and giving person. You are continually blessed. Have a nice day and keep spreading goodness around!roger

From: hbbr

To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Mon, March 28, 2011 8:32:50 AMSubject: Re: What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

This thread just shows me how easily I get hooked into dysfunction. Damn! I really wish I would stop thinking I can help when I can't. I knew better than to get drawn into this, yet I did. Thought I could help. What a joke!!!

This had nothing to do with ACT from the get-go. That should have clued me in. But, no, I wanted to reach out to this person who appeared to be interested in ACT.

I feel like a fool who got sucked in.

--- Original Message -----To: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 8:20:29 PMSubject: Re: What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Amber,

Why do you think that? Do you think we are perfect here? We are all struggling. I asked what brought you to ACT, and I would really like to know before you write us off. I do care.

Helena

What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is a " " unique behavior change " " approach based on modern learning theory and Relational Frame Theory (RFT) that emphasizes instead " " the role of mindfulenss " "

and commitment strategies, including " " acceptance, " " defusion, " " contact with the present moment " " a transcendent " " sense of self " " values, and creating larger patterns of committed action

March 27, 2011

What if what I said about our suppression of outward aggression awakening our passive-aggressive side could be applied to our inner world as well? What if, after years of therapy and learning to treat myself with unconditional compassion, I find it oddly liberating to allow myself to be an ass when IMHO called for, and be a goody-goody-two-shoes when called for? There a quote I like: " better to be whole than to be good " .. I simply don't mind being an ass on occasion, not after years of controlling myself. BTW, there is a (not quite translatable) Russian saying: " The word 'ass' is just as beautiful as the word 'general', it's just a matter of proper usage " .

I know, what I did is a bit like slapping a blind person. But if a blind person is swinging his fists around (and has very tangible power to hurt, and has in fact hurt people in front of your eyes), maybe it's for his own good to have his wrists slapped a bit every once in a while? Natural consequences.. maybe by surrounding them with our cheesy 'love and light' we create vacuum around them, which marginalizes and isolates them even further? Just a thought..

Sure its OK to withdraw the hand ... but be ready to put it back out.The thought " this person is being a jerk " etc is of course normal.The problem with fusion with it is that it says more than we know

and it feeds a process that harms us. How that happensOK. So I'm working with a person who is all over the place. Slapping. Poking. Sarcasm.Then we find out she was being abused repeatedly by Dad at age 5.

Does that take away the " this person is being a jerk " thought?Not exactly. Does it add some compassion? It might. If we fusebig time with " this person is being a jerk " no it will not. Not much.

It just gets more mindy ... not really more compassionate(excuse making)Now the cost part.You know your own abuse stories (etc etc). You know your history.And yeah maybe we don't have that big " explanation " but

we all have that vulnerable part.So now you are showing your own ass ... like our short visited list membertoday (she says she quit the list ... but as you can see she is still posting to it). Maybe not quite so dramatically, but you are doing it.

And you are fusing with your thoughts big time.Does knowing our own painful history and vulnerabilities add some self-compassion? It might. If we fuse

big time with " I'm such a jerk " no it will not. Not much.

It just gets more mindy ... not really more self-compassionate.It is just excuse making.So when we slow down and let go of judgments (even when we have them)and find a place to be more compassionate really we are practicing

the exact skills that we will need with ourselves next time we show our ass big time.If you are like me, that could be tomorrowFor the sake of the children we once were its worth slowing downwhen judgment gets rolling because that skills is like a gun that fires in all directions

including back at youIf you want to see the whole process, Amber is laying it out for us very clearly ...on both sides of this. It raw and painful to watch.In the mirror tooI hope she finds a way forward ...

- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062 " Love isn't everything, it's the only thing "

hayes@... or stevenchayes@...Fax:

Psych Department: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be):

Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mindHuffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phd

If you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes

http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.com

If you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar.

If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join

orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., " Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life " etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join

Here is a thought. I wonder if our conditioning to be always helpful and non-confrontational awakens our passive-aggressive side. I do see it in myself a lot - when I used to pride myself on being non-judgmental.

The way I see it now, acting non-judgmental is for the saints, for people who've progressed in their spiritual/intellectual development to that level. I am not on that level, and pretending to be, I think, creates more problems than it solves. (I am only speaking for myself here, not saying anyone else is doing that!) It's cheesy. It's dishonest to the boot. If we are dishonest for the sake of the social grace, sure then, that's fine, as long as we are honest with ourselves. Helena, you sure you truly wanted to help as that person was spitting in your hand? If you did, my hat goes off to you (telling you that as a man to a man :-) ), but if you did, then why were you hurt so much? Maybe by accepting her, you were longing to be accepted yourself? Ain't gonna happen..

In the ACT spirit, is not it " controlling your thoughts " ?It's OK to withdraw your hand once they spit at it, IMHO. Quite liberating actually.

Dear hbbr,Your help and advice did not come to naught. Whoever that dysfunctional fool is, he/she will have his/her day of judgment. As for the rest of us, we are benefited

directly or indirectly on the advises you give. You're a kind and giving person. You are continually blessed. Have a nice day and keep spreading goodness around!roger

From: hbbr

To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Mon, March 28, 2011 8:32:50 AMSubject: Re: What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

This thread just shows me how easily I get hooked into dysfunction. Damn! I really wish I would stop thinking I can help when I can't. I knew better than to get drawn into this, yet I did. Thought I could help. What a joke!!!

This had nothing to do with ACT from the get-go. That should have clued me in. But, no, I wanted to reach out to this person who appeared to be interested in ACT.

I feel like a fool who got sucked in.

--- Original Message -----To: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 8:20:29 PMSubject: Re: What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Amber,

Why do you think that? Do you think we are perfect here? We are all struggling. I asked what brought you to ACT, and I would really like to know before you write us off. I do care.

Helena

What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is a " " unique behavior change " " approach based on modern learning theory and Relational Frame Theory (RFT) that emphasizes instead " " the role of mindfulenss " "

and commitment strategies, including " " acceptance, " " defusion, " " contact with the present moment " " a transcendent " " sense of self " " values, and creating larger patterns of committed action

March 28, 2011

Just to emphasize one of Steve's points here... For all of us that were driven

to respond to this thread, dare to check into your own reactivity? Is this a

predictable way of responding for you?

Any ideas for other flexible ways of responding to others that push our 'heavily

fused' buttons? Maybe choose to drop the rope. We always have a choice. Don't

let your mind tell you otherwise.

Thank you for the lesson,

ACT Moderator

> >>

> >>>

> >>> Dear hbbr,

> >>>

> >>> Your help and advice did not come to naught. Whoever that dysfunctional

> >>> fool is, he/she will have his/her day of judgment. As for the rest of us,

we

> >>> are benefited

> >>> directly or indirectly on the advises you give. You're a kind and giving

> >>> person. You are continually blessed. Have a nice day and keep spreading

> >>> goodness around!

> >>>

> >>> roger

> >>>

> >>> ------------------------------

> >>> *From:* hbbr

> >>> *To:* ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public >

> >>> *Sent:* Mon, March 28, 2011 8:32:50 AM

> >>>

> >>> *Subject:* Re: What an insult to any person

> >>> actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

> >>>

> >>> This thread just shows me how easily I get hooked into dysfunction.

> >>> Damn! I really wish I would stop thinking I can help when I can't. I

knew

> >>> better than to get drawn into this, yet I did. Thought I could help.

What

> >>> a joke!!!

> >>>

> >>> This had nothing to do with ACT from the get-go. That should have clued

> >>> me in. But, no, I wanted to reach out to this person who appeared to be

> >>> interested in ACT.

> >>>

> >>> I feel like a fool who got sucked in.

> >>>

> >>> --- Original Message -----

> >>>

> >>> To: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

> >>> Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 8:20:29 PM

> >>> Subject: Re: What an insult to any person actually

> >>> seeking a credible group for therapy.

> >>>

> >>> Amber,

> >>>

> >>> Why do you think that? Do you think we are perfect here? We are all

> >>> struggling. I asked what brought you to ACT, and I would really like to

> >>> know before you write us off. I do care.

> >>>

> >>> Helena

> >>>

> >>> What an insult to any person actually

> >>> seeking a credible group for therapy.

> >>>

> >>> Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is a

> >>> " " unique behavior change " "

> >>> approach based on modern learning theory and Relational Frame Theory

> >>> (RFT) that emphasizes instead

> >>> " " the role of mindfulenss " "

> >>>

> >>> and commitment strategies, including

> >>> " " acceptance, " "

> >>> defusion,

> >>> " " contact with the present moment " "

> >>> a transcendent " " sense of self " " values, and creating larger patterns of

> >>> committed action

> >>>

> >>

> >

>

March 28, 2011

OK. Some final words from me on this situation, having slept on it. First, thanks to everyone for their kind words and also for Jane's thought-provoking comments and questions.

I was more disappointed than hurt, and yes, that is painful, but not terribly so. I was disappointed in myself for being drawn into a situation I should have stayed away from--in hindsight. And I do not think Amber was/is a jerk. Said some jerk-like things, yes, as I often have myself. But I don't know her heart or her pain, so I don't have enough information to label her (generally speaking, none of us ever do). I believe she was reaching out for some reason, and I tried to get her to talk about that. And to answer your question, Jane, yes, I truly wanted to help. I simply didn't view her as spitting in my hand. Did I want acceptance in return? Most likely. I am not yet a saint, either! But, in this case, wanting to help was my primary motive, not seeking acceptance.

Acting non-judgmentally may be for the saints, as you say, but it is something we can aspire to, not?

Being judgmental has a good side, too--not in the sense of labeling others as good or bad, but in the sense of being discriminating in how we choose to relate to others, whether to offer help or not. Is the motive to be of service, or is it only self-serving? If the latter, then it makes one a misguided "do gooder". Knowing when and how to reach out and when to be quiet and just observe is something I'm still learning. And more and more, I'm learning that to just be quiet and observe is best; sometimes my desire to be to be seen as wise and caring trumps my desire to help, so I need to be vigilant about that.

Jane, your words about not expecting acceptance from others reminded me of a quote from W. Gardner (American educator) about the things you learn in maturity:

You come to understand that most people are neither for you nor against you; they are thinking about themselves. You learn that no matter how hard you try to please, some people in this world are not going to love you--a lesson that is at first troubling and then really quite relaxing.

If you are still reading, Amber, I wish you well!

Helena

What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.

Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) is a ""unique behavior change"" approach based on modern learning theory and Relational Frame Theory (RFT) that emphasizes instead""the role of mindfulenss""and commitment strategies, including"" acceptance,""defusion, ""contact with the present moment""a transcendent ""sense of self"" values, and creating larger patterns of committed action

March 28, 2011

Grr, again pressed the " reply " button instead of " reply all " and responded off-list.

See, I continue to be the most likable one out there, the only one our dear friend Amber cares about :-)

I don't think I was fused or emotional about it at all.. in retrospect, I almost wish she stayed, because, I admit, I AM learning from her behavior.. as someone had said, she is us.. tragic, but true.. and yes, I behave just like that, too, sometimes. Well, almost. Sometimes it helps to see the extreme version of yourself from aside.

Good luck to you, Amber.

wow...that's a mouthful, but i really love the meaning and the way karma comes back and bites people on the ass when they least expect it...i had removed myself from the group this afternoon, but had to do it again just now, apparently it did nto save.

personally, i could care less what happens to the rest of the group, but i will pass this on to you...and yes...it is " a chain " message...but very seriously THE WORM IS ON THE MOVE AGAIN. NOT A HOAX. ATTENTION ALL: IF YOU GET A REQUEST FROM ANY FRIEND ON CHAT SAYING " YOU HAVE BEEN TAGGED IN A PHOTO, WHAT WERE YOU DOING? " DO NOT OPEN IT. IT IS A WORM IT WILL INFECT AND SHUTDOWN YOUR COMPUTER AND SEND OUT THIS MESSAGE. TRAVELING AROUND FACEBOOK . YOUR FRIENDS DID NOT SEND IT!

PLEASE COPY AND PASTE THIS TO YOUR STATUS!i am glad i apologized. you seem like a very likeable and personable person.take care.

Do not walk in behind me, I may not lead.Do not walk in front of me, I may not follow.Walk beside me. And just be my friend.Blessings be upon you )O(

Amber

From: Jane Cohen

To:

Cc: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 10:58 PM

Subject: Re: What an insult to any person actually seeking a credible group for therapy.