Questions

[Guest guest]

Hey, that's nothing. I can't seem to put any of the r's on my "theirs" today.

Re: Questions

That is the first time I've ever seen a sentence mangled that bad! Can I blame it on brain fog???? hehehehehehe

It should have read:

If your thyroid no longer produces, the information is that it's 1 mcg per pound.

Topper ()

On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:16:24 -0600 topper2@... writes:

If your thyroid no longer produces they information in that it's 1 mcg per pound.

Your labs are showing you slightly hypo.... is the 100 mcg an increase from your last dose?

Topper ()

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Breanna.

Now I have a starting point. I am also going to try a chiropractor - but only

b/c a dear friend works for him and I trust her judgement. BTW, I have tried

Emu Oil, years ago, but it didn't work for me.

Best,

LaMar

>Breanna wrote:

> Get copies of your medical chart and tests done, if you can, and

>go to this new doc. Tell him/her you're in constant pain from

>these injuries and disc/vertebrae damage, and can they please give

>you some kind of treatment?!!

[Guest guest]

LaMar,

I have some of the same problems in my back/neck (protrusion or bulges and

reverse curve in neck) and believe me these things DO cause a lot of pain. I

also have Fibro, which is a different kind of aching pain for me.

Caitlin

texaslamar wrote:I have chronic, nagging, sometimes unbearable, pain in my neck,

between my shoulder blades, and my lower back. Is this what's causing it? B/c

the docs say, " NO " - I have fibromyagia. I have never fully believed I have

fibro b/c 1. I don't have the tender points and 2. I don't have the chronic

fatigue that comes with it?

---------------------------------

Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min

with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

[Guest guest]

NT questions:

1. Do you consider asperger syndrome a handicap? And why?

Yes. It can result in many difficulties both personally and professionally.

2. What were the most difficult challenges you had with an aspie?

Being married to one.

Working with one.

In both cases the difficulty is that the aspie could not identify information

that other people need. In both cases the answer often given is " I didn't think

you'd be interested "

For example, a vital piece of equipment is missing. All staff searching for it.

Aspie finally says " Oh, yeah, I sent it away for repair. " When asked, he didn't

tell anyone because he didn't think that the other 5 people that use that piece

of equipment " would care. "

My aspie would never tell me if he could not do something. He'd wait until I

found out that it hadn't happened. I'm pretty sure he did the same with work

deadlines. He could never say in advance, so someone else could step in and

retrieve the situation, he'd wait until it was too late to fix. And EVERY time,

he'd say " I'd do that differently next time. "

In a workplace, I can step away from it slightly and recognise what is going on.

In a marriage it's harder. It hurts to be excluded from things and then told

over and over again that your " partner " thinks you wouldn't care, or wouldn't be

interested.

Is there such a thing as an Aspie different understanding of time? I found I

could not ever seem to get my aspie to understand the concepts of " urgent, " or

following on from that - " too late. "

3. Do you consider asperger syndrome to be ahead of evolution?

No way.

4. How would you best aid an asperger dealing with their problems?

Not the best question. Nothing I ever tried worked. :-)

I think the first thing is that an aspie has to recognise that there is an

issue.

In the end all I could do was accept that my marriage would never change, and

leave. Love him dearly, cannot live with him, and things he does still hurt.

I think my aspie work colleague would do better if he let people know he's an

aspie - he might get more understanding.

[Guest guest]

I usually gut out stuff, but some of 's are too good to gut.

>

>

>

> NT questions:

>

> 1. Do you consider asperger syndrome a handicap? And why?

No, not any more than my Bipolar I is a handicap. PITA? Yes. I guess

my view on what is a handicap is pretty narrow. Outted myself today.

Oh well....

> 2. What were the most difficult challenges you had with an aspie?

> Being married to one.

My challenge is my husband's attitude that he is incapable of changing

any aspect of his life. If you are in a deep coma, yeah, you

aren't changing much. I don't expect change, but a tiny (and I mean

tiny, my expectations are LOW) attempt is all I want.

I do realize life is hard for him on various levels. It has not been a

bunch of toots and giggles for me either. I work every day to beat the

bipolar beast back into it's cage (manias are a real issue for me).

I'd love to say, " screw it " , do some things that would fuel a good 6

month mania. I miss feeling bullet proof. But I have obligations, the

scorched earth and carnage after the mania is brutal, and Jay would be

pissed. He would be angry that I didn't " try " , but he holds no such

standard for himself. That is what chaps my butt.

>

> ...... the difficulty is that the aspie could not identify information that

other people need. In both cases the answer often given is " I didn't think you'd

be interested "

I wish I had a sound proof room where I could do some Primal scream

therapy when this occurs. Jay has this down to a mad science. Latest

example is the car's wheel is losing it's bearings. No wheel=no

transportation=DD is hosed going to day camp as he would need MY car

for his appointments. Jay pulled this out of his back pocket, last

night, on July 4th weekend. What shop is going to work on a car over

the holiday week end? So he let the car fall apart until it is a red

hot emergency, now I have to make magic happen.

*head:wall* repeat.....

> My aspie would never tell me if he could not do something. He'd wait until I

found out that it hadn't happened. I'm pretty sure he did the same with work

deadlines. He could never say in advance, so someone else could step in and

retrieve the situation, he'd wait until it was too late to fix. And EVERY time,

he'd say " I'd do that differently next time. "

Does yours say he works better at the last minute, but just misjudged

the deadline/time frame? That is how Jay handles any emotionally

charged, stressful situation. Stall until it is too damn late, and

then give the shoulder shrug. He is still off of work, and they are

fighting not to have him back. I'm sure the above was played out

numerous times at work. Or working so slowly that it winds up being

late. I can't decide if that is just plain old passive-aggressive

behaviour or Aspie related.

Anyway *head:wall* repeat.....

*snip!*

> Is there such a thing as an Aspie different understanding of time? I found I

could not ever seem to get my aspie to understand the concepts of " urgent, " or

following on from that - " too late. "

I think Jay's time befuddlement is plain old rampant anxiety. He winds

himself up into an internal foam, starts worrying about things that

have no

relevance on the current situation, becomes completely overwhelmed,

panics, keeps it all to himself, then gives the shoulder shrug or

frank outrage at the end.

It is NEVER his fault. Or so he says. I know he is crushed when this happens.

> 3. Do you consider asperger syndrome to be ahead of evolution?

Nope.

>

> 4. How would you best aid an asperger dealing with their problems?

In regards to AS and therapy, I routinely call BS when Jay starts the

" I'm an Aspie, and this is how I am. " Certainly for many things that

is valid. He does this when therapy hits close to home, and he gets

dodgey. Just as society is never going to accept me spiraling out of

control in a manic rage, Jay has to realize if he wants to deal with

humans on some level, it can't be his way or the high way. What he

doesn't realize is most people will bend over backwards to over look

alot if you try and meet them half way. He doesn't see me doing that

with him. He has wonderful qualities that I love to bits, but there

are some things that can be just tweaked a little. Right now nothing

is tweaking. He is depressed, getting up at 1 pm and avoiding humans.

You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.....I'm getting

good at riding Jay's waves.

Nanci

Wife to Jay (AS)

[Guest guest]

NJ Delphia wrote:

> I do realize life is hard for him on various levels. It has not been a

> bunch of toots and giggles for me either. I work every day to beat the

> bipolar beast back into it's cage (manias are a real issue for me).

> I'd love to say, " screw it " , do some things that would fuel a good 6

> month mania. I miss feeling bullet proof. But I have obligations, the

> scorched earth and carnage after the mania is brutal, and Jay would be

> pissed. He would be angry that I didn't " try " , but he holds no such

> standard for himself. That is what chaps my butt.

My (now late) husband was bipolar also. In fact, he could have written

your exact words.

However, for a variety of reasons (not all of them bipolar related) he

did not always practice what he preached. Not by a long shot. His

standards for the behavior expected of me were exceptionally high

though, as were his expectations of the pace at which I should show

progress. I was always hearing how self-centered, inconsiderate, and

irresponsible I was. And how my suspicion of suffering from (something

akin to) AS was just another one of my excuses for " bad behavior " .

Only after his death (and my AS diagnosis) did I come to realize just

how much projection he was capable of. Let's just say that he had no

room to talk. lol

After a great deal of reflection, I think we were both probably doing

the best that each of us could do given our respective conditions,

baggage cart, and human flaws/frailties at that particularly difficult

time in life.

>> Is there such a thing as an Aspie different understanding of time? I found I

could not ever seem to get my aspie to understand the concepts of " urgent, " or

following on from that - " too late. "

>

> I think Jay's time befuddlement is plain old rampant anxiety. He winds

> himself up into an internal foam, starts worrying about things that

> have no

> relevance on the current situation, becomes completely overwhelmed,

> panics, keeps it all to himself, then gives the shoulder shrug or

> frank outrage at the end.

> It is NEVER his fault. Or so he says. I know he is crushed when this happens.

For me, I know that plain ol' rampant anxiety is often the culprit.

Although it took many years to be able to see things through that lens.

Despite that self-knowledge, anxiety often still has me in its grip,

sometimes to the point of self-sabotage. In fact, I'm struggling with

something like this right now, something that has the potential to

derail life (as I know it) Big Time.

> Just as society is never going to accept me spiraling out of

> control in a manic rage, Jay has to realize if he wants to deal with

> humans on some level, it can't be his way or the high way. What he

> doesn't realize is most people will bend over backwards to over look

> alot if you try and meet them half way.

Yep. The frustrating part is that everyone will interpret effort made

in a different manner. As well as adequate pace (for improvement) and

the definition of " half way " . Sigh.

Best,

~CJ

[Guest guest]

21. And why does he blame me for everything that goes wrong? Am I really the one at fault?22. And if there's no talking allowed in the car then why can't I listen to the music in the car?@.@ - Begin forwarded message:Subject: QuestionsDate: 7 December, 2011 2:28:23 PM PSTTo: aspires-relationships I was wondering a lot of things about my partner and don't understand or have the answers. especially number 4:1. How come many Aspie men can't find jobs, or hold jobs, or don't want to work, if they do have a job it's an uphill battle to try to get him to stay at one job for more than 2 years? no job is ever satisfying to him because he wants to make something of himself. But for a guy who needs specifics, how come he is so general and chooses such a broad goal? To me if I want to make something of myself I pick small goals to lead up to that like more education.2. How come I've lost all my friends since being in a relationship with him? 3. How come his parents had no idea what he had when the symptoms are more prominent in men as little boys? Why are most men diagnosed at such a late age?4. How come he doesn't like or enjoy sex at all even though I know he loves me? I've seen a lot of Aspie men have issues sexual inappropriateness, or not knowing boundaries, but I actually wish he would be a little inappropriate? Before I thought it was Asperger's I thought he was gay or was sexually abused as child (all was negative except Aspergers)?5. How do I maintain my close relationship with my family with his Asperger's when he doesn't want to come with me or he makes it uncomfortable to be there so we always have to leave early?6. How come when we have a guest, he actually makes breakfast instead of waiting for me to wake up to make it like he usually does? (he'll wait all day if he has to until I wake up and I start to make something, then he says he's hungry too). So everyone thinks I'm crazy cause he's so good to me and spoils me? This is why I love guests, cause everything he needs to do around the house gets done, and I can actually get him to say yes to going to Costco with me.7. We have had to find 3 new dentists because everytime he makes an appointment and has an alert on his iphone, he still forgets, so we owe the dentist money for last minute cancellations, because he refuses to call them and try to make up a good excuse, so we end up finding a new dentist. Why, what is he so scared of, I can't cancel and remember all his psyc, doctor, haircut, or dentist appointments?8. He used to throw out the garbage, but I did it once, and ever since then he will never throw out the garbage, why does he do that, is it cause he thinks I can do it so he doesn't need to, is it cause he likes rodents, or is it cause the garbage bin is within walking distance?9. Why does he have break things when he's set off or screams? Why can't he just say he's angry rather than scaring me with his yelling or road rage?10. Why does he think money grows on trees when we don't have that much money?11. Why does he try to impress his parents or buy their love by buying them things we can't afford for ourselves, r giving them money we don't have, when he doesn't want to visit his parents without me?12. why can't he just put things back where he found it instead breaking things to make them fit or messing up 2 days worth of cleaning that I cleaned, why can't he clean he house?13. why does he answer all my questions with "I don't know" or he ignores me but if I ignore or answer him with I don't know he has a tantrum?14. How come he's not afraid that I will find someone else to fulfill my sexual desires because he doesn't want to make love?I would be afraid of him finding someone else if I didn't fulfill his needs. 15. why is it when he's sick my world has to come to a stop because all his needs have to be taken care of but when I'm sick he's happy cause he gets to play ps3 or surf the net without me bothering me, when all I want is a glass of water. But if his parents or sister is sick he bends over backwards going to the pharmacy to find everything they need or he searches online for information on their symptoms? It's like I'm superwoman and me being sick is not the end of his world.16. If he likes lists so much, how come he still always forgets to buy one item at the market even with the list? Or if he gets double charged for something he didn't buy he won't get a refund for something he never bought. And if I do he gets embarrassed when I don't even cause a scene, and the clerk is the one who feels bad for making a mistake? Why does he feel bad or embarrassed for another's mistake? Of if the server get his order wrong even if he's allergic, he won't dare let her know or ask for the right dish?17. Why is he not gentle? whenever he shows affection or tries to fix something or open something, how come he's very ogar-like, instead of being gentle?18. How come he can't tell me or explain why he loves me?19. Why does he get disappointed and sad when I stop making all the effort to be thoughtful and romantic, but I'm not allowed to be upset when he doesn't do much thoughtful or romantic things for me?20. If I make him happy by just never saying anything to him with smile, will that make him super happy and is that beneficial for him for me to be a mannequin?

Ditto for me. I’ve been married for 32 years to man that was diagnosed 25 years in and I’m with that my middle name was Cassandra too. We might not be able to solve your problem but we can surely offer support and possibly guidance. I don’t know what mental health services are like in Oz but can you ask your doctor for a referral to someone and explain what your financial ability on non ability to pay for those services might be. Cyber hugs!Deb (who used to be Cassandra) From: aspires-relationships [mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of NewlandSent: December-06-11 9:13 PMTo: aspires-relationships Subject: Leesa  Leesa: How can WE be of service? I was married to a self-dx spouse for over 20 years and felt Cassandra was my middle name for a while. We have been divorced for five years and I recently had to move back due to economics. I get it and believe Cassandra can be a real syndrome in some of our relationships. What is going on in your relationship right now to make you feel this way? Cyber hugs

[Guest guest]

Somehow I think he is Obsessive Compulsive as well. OCD.

> >

> >>

> >> Ditto for me. I’ve been married for 32 years to man that was diagnosed 25

years in and I’m with that my middle name was Cassandra too. We might

not be able to solve your problem but we can surely offer support and possibly

guidance.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> I don’t know what mental health services are like in Oz but can you ask

your doctor for a referral to someone and explain what your financial ability on

non ability to pay for those services might be.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Cyber hugs!

> >>

> >> Deb (who used to be Cassandra)

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> From: aspires-relationships

[mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of Newland

> >> Sent: December-06-11 9:13 PM

> >> To: aspires-relationships

> >> Subject: Leesa

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> 

> >>

> >> Leesa:

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> How can WE be of service? I was married to a self-dx spouse for over 20

years and felt Cassandra was my middle name for a while. We have been divorced

for five years and I recently had to move back due to economics. I get it and

believe Cassandra can be a real syndrome in some of our relationships.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> What is going on in your relationship right now to make you feel this way?

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Cyber hugs

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

gcaspiesinchatt wrote:

<< With someone who has a developmental delay with ADHD or high

functioning autism, it's about 75 to 80% of what a typical person's age

should be. For example, if he is 30 years old, his mental age should be

in the 22.5 to 24 year old range. >>

I think this percentage gap only holds up to a point. The older a

person gets, the less relevant it becomes, as fewer recognizable

emotional/social IQ milestones exist for adults.

I'm not sure that I'm explaining this well, so I'll offer an example

instead.

If a 21 year old behaves as a typical 14 year old might, that's a

significant gap in emotional/social IQ. These are years when a lot of

growth takes place for most people, as they emerge from adolescence into

young adulthood.

However, if a 46 year old behaves like someone who is 38, I'm not so

sure that is meaningful.

In my experience, ADHD and spectrum-y adults who have arrested

emotional/social development don't typically lag a predictable

percentage behind their (non-arrested) peers. More likely, they get

stuck at some place in their evolution and tend to remain there, for the

most part.

For example, I've been in support groups with middle-aged (male) Aspies

who have earned many degrees, yet their emotional and social development

is arrested at an older teen level. Even though their chronological age

advances with every year, their emotional and social development does

not. While they may take small steps forward, they can't seem to

progress much beyond where they are.

My sister is like this too. When she was 14 years old, she acted like a

typical 14 year old. Which is fine, as that behavior is age-appropriate.

However, the charm quickly wore off when she turned 21 and was still

behaving like a 14 year old. As her chronological age advanced, her

social and emotional IQ did not, at least in any significant way.

Now that's she's 54, her behavior is even less becoming. Despite

earning a university degree (with honors), she could never even get a

job interview in her field, much less a job.

Seriously, what employer wants to hire an adult who behaves like a

child, especially for a professional career position that requires sound

judgment and discretion? Thus, my sister works at the Rite-Aid,

stocking shelves with the teenagers. And she fits in great, doing what

teens do, gushing over pop stars and other celebrities in the teen

magazines.

Best,

~CJ

[Guest guest]

gcaspiesinchatt wrote:

<< With someone who has a developmental delay with ADHD or high

functioning autism, it's about 75 to 80% of what a typical person's age

should be. For example, if he is 30 years old, his mental age should be

in the 22.5 to 24 year old range. >>

I think this percentage gap only holds up to a point. The older a

person gets, the less relevant it becomes, as fewer recognizable

emotional/social IQ milestones exist for adults.

I'm not sure that I'm explaining this well, so I'll offer an example

instead.

If a 21 year old behaves as a typical 14 year old might, that's a

significant gap in emotional/social IQ. These are years when a lot of

growth takes place for most people, as they emerge from adolescence into

young adulthood.

However, if a 46 year old behaves like someone who is 38, I'm not so

sure that is meaningful.

In my experience, ADHD and spectrum-y adults who have arrested

emotional/social development don't typically lag a predictable

percentage behind their (non-arrested) peers. More likely, they get

stuck at some place in their evolution and tend to remain there, for the

most part.

For example, I've been in support groups with middle-aged (male) Aspies

who have earned many degrees, yet their emotional and social development

is arrested at an older teen level. Even though their chronological age

advances with every year, their emotional and social development does

not. While they may take small steps forward, they can't seem to

progress much beyond where they are.

My sister is like this too. When she was 14 years old, she acted like a

typical 14 year old. Which is fine, as that behavior is age-appropriate.

However, the charm quickly wore off when she turned 21 and was still

behaving like a 14 year old. As her chronological age advanced, her

social and emotional IQ did not, at least in any significant way.

Now that's she's 54, her behavior is even less becoming. Despite

earning a university degree (with honors), she could never even get a

job interview in her field, much less a job.

Seriously, what employer wants to hire an adult who behaves like a

child, especially for a professional career position that requires sound

judgment and discretion? Thus, my sister works at the Rite-Aid,

stocking shelves with the teenagers. And she fits in great, doing what

teens do, gushing over pop stars and other celebrities in the teen

magazines.

Best,

~CJ

[Guest guest]

gcaspiesinchatt wrote:

<< With someone who has a developmental delay with ADHD or high

functioning autism, it's about 75 to 80% of what a typical person's age

should be. For example, if he is 30 years old, his mental age should be

in the 22.5 to 24 year old range. >>

I think this percentage gap only holds up to a point. The older a

person gets, the less relevant it becomes, as fewer recognizable

emotional/social IQ milestones exist for adults.

I'm not sure that I'm explaining this well, so I'll offer an example

instead.

If a 21 year old behaves as a typical 14 year old might, that's a

significant gap in emotional/social IQ. These are years when a lot of

growth takes place for most people, as they emerge from adolescence into

young adulthood.

However, if a 46 year old behaves like someone who is 38, I'm not so

sure that is meaningful.

In my experience, ADHD and spectrum-y adults who have arrested

emotional/social development don't typically lag a predictable

percentage behind their (non-arrested) peers. More likely, they get

stuck at some place in their evolution and tend to remain there, for the

most part.

For example, I've been in support groups with middle-aged (male) Aspies

who have earned many degrees, yet their emotional and social development

is arrested at an older teen level. Even though their chronological age

advances with every year, their emotional and social development does

not. While they may take small steps forward, they can't seem to

progress much beyond where they are.

My sister is like this too. When she was 14 years old, she acted like a

typical 14 year old. Which is fine, as that behavior is age-appropriate.

However, the charm quickly wore off when she turned 21 and was still

behaving like a 14 year old. As her chronological age advanced, her

social and emotional IQ did not, at least in any significant way.

Now that's she's 54, her behavior is even less becoming. Despite

earning a university degree (with honors), she could never even get a

job interview in her field, much less a job.

Seriously, what employer wants to hire an adult who behaves like a

child, especially for a professional career position that requires sound

judgment and discretion? Thus, my sister works at the Rite-Aid,

stocking shelves with the teenagers. And she fits in great, doing what

teens do, gushing over pop stars and other celebrities in the teen

magazines.

Best,

~CJ

[Guest guest]

helen_foisy wrote:

> Regarding your question, why wouldn't the spouse who was seemingly withholding

not worry about losing their partner. I think because the marital dynamic has

already shifted from partner/partner to parent/child, there is the expectation

that one will not be abandoned regardless of the bad behavior because after all,

their mother gave unconditional love no matter how they behaved. And with

impaired theory of mind issues, it is hard for them to imagine a partner missing

something that they don't.

Oh, wow. Helen, with just a few word changes, you sound just like my

late husband.

Best,

~CJ (the once clueless one)

[Guest guest]

Deb: OMG Liz, I LOVE the household appliance metaphor! Thanks, I plan to use

it, but I will make sure to give you credit.

Re: Questions

> I was wondering a lot of things about my partner and don't understand or

have the answers. especially number 4:

A lot of these are very general people things, or insensitive person of any

type things. Some are completely unique to the person and independent of

AS/NT or any other condition. Saying that, I'll answer as both an AS woman

and the (ex) wife of an AS man.

> 1. How come many Aspie men can't find jobs, or hold jobs, or don't want to

work, if they do have a job it's an uphill battle to try to get him to stay

at one job for more than 2 years? no job is ever satisfying to him because

he wants to make something of himself. But for a guy who needs specifics,

how come he is so general and chooses such a broad goal? To me if I want to

make something of myself I pick small goals to lead up to that like more

education.

Im stbx' case, while he was a fantastic engineer, he had two As-related

faults. 1) he could never gauge the correct amount of effort for a project,

so he'd work his heart out on everything, overthink solutions, and spend far

too much time solving every detail, when his boss asked for the big picture

only. He would treat people at work as thinking tools, not humans. He

almost never socialized with " the guys " unless it was forced on him. In all

the years we had kids (15 before the separation) we went to *one* family

holiday event, because he didn't like them (the kids and I did). Never went

to the adult social events, either.

> 3. How come his parents had no idea what he had when the symptoms are more

prominent in men as little boys? Why are most men diagnosed at such a late

age?

Because Asperger's didn't exist when they were little! Of course people were

Aspies, but the condition was not recognized, and when it was, it was

diagnosed only in completely dysfunctional people. When I first

self-diagnosed I told my mom, who was best friends with Sylvia Rimland (wife

of prominent autism researcher Bernie Rimland.) Without even talking to me,

Bernie and Sylvia said I couldn't be Aspie because I was married and living

a normal life. This was in the late 1990s.

> 4. How come he doesn't like or enjoy sex at all even though I know he

loves me? I've seen a lot of Aspie men have issues sexual inappropriateness,

or not knowing boundaries, but I actually wish he would be a little

inappropriate? Before I thought it was Asperger's I thought he was gay or

was sexually abused as child (all was negative except Aspergers)?

This has *nothing* to do with AS! stbx was oversexed . much of the reason

for the divorce was that he was on the down low (cheating with men) for 10

year. When I found out, he told me he'd be faithful -- 6 months later I

found hard evidence of two hookups, and a possible third.

> 5. How do I maintain my close relationship with my family with his

Asperger's when he doesn't want to come with me or he makes it uncomfortable

to be there so we always have to leave early?

Go alone. Or make sure he brings a book or laptop and give him space to be

asocial.

> 6. How come when we have a guest, he actually makes breakfast instead of

waiting for me to wake up to make it like he usually does? (he'll wait all

day if he has to until I wake up and I start to make something, then he says

he's hungry too). So everyone thinks I'm crazy cause he's so good to me and

spoils me? This is why I love guests, cause everything he needs to do around

the house gets done, and I can actually get him to say yes to going to

Costco with me.

Have you asked him?

I think a lot of men, especially Aspie men, forget that their wives are

human beings. They seem to classify us as self-aware household appliances.

We have to find ways to keep reminding them (nicely) that we are people too,

just like everyone else.

> 8. He used to throw out the garbage, but I did it once, and ever since

then he will never throw out the garbage, why does he do that, is it cause

he thinks I can do it so he doesn't need to, is it cause he likes rodents,

or is it cause the garbage bin is within walking distance?

1) The household appliance is so great, she can learn new skills! and 2)

he's Aspie enough that the sarcasm goes right over his head and he *does*

like rodents.

> 9. Why does he have break things when he's set off or screams? Why can't

he just say he's angry rather than scaring me with his yelling or road rage?

I think this is built into the Y chromosome. Seriously, I know quite a few

very NT men who do this.

> 10. Why does he think money grows on trees when we don't have that much

money?

> 11. Why does he try to impress his parents or buy their love by buying

them things we can't afford for ourselves, r giving them money we don't

have, when he doesn't want to visit his parents without me?

> 12. why can't he just put things back where he found it instead breaking

things to make them fit or messing up 2 days worth of cleaning that I

cleaned, why can't he clean he house?

> 13. why does he answer all my questions with " I don't know " or he ignores

me but if I ignore or answer him with I don't know he has a tantrum?

These all sound like specific incidents . and these issues happen with all

couples.

> 14. How come he's not afraid that I will find someone else to fulfill my

sexual desires because he doesn't want to make love?I would be afraid of him

finding someone else if I didn't fulfill his needs.

Stop me before I go off on an anthropological lecture on how monogamy is

cultural, and how many Aspies don't fully understand this aspect of culture,

and how many polyamorists are well-adjusted Aspies who don't care to follow

cultural norms of sexuality.

Summary: he may well not care if you take a lover; he may be polyamorous and

not get jealous.

> 15. why is it when he's sick my world has to come to a stop because all

his needs have to be taken care of but when I'm sick he's happy cause he

gets to play ps3 or surf the net without me bothering me, when all I want is

a glass of water. But if his parents or sister is sick he bends over

backwards going to the pharmacy to find everything they need or he searches

online for information on their symptoms? It's like I'm superwoman and me

being sick is not the end of his world.

Household appliances don't get sick. And you always get better, no? (yes,

this is heavy sarcasm)

> 18. How come he can't tell me or explain why he loves me?

Because his brain doesn't work that way. He shows he loves you by sharing

his life with you.

> 19. Why does he get disappointed and sad when I stop making all the effort

to be thoughtful and romantic, but I'm not allowed to be upset when he

doesn't do much thoughtful or romantic things for me?

He knows he needs love, but needs to be hit with a 2 by 4 to realize you are

not a household appliance.

Sorry for the snarky sarcasm; I'm in an odd mood tonight. It does sound like

he's taking you for granted, and SOMETHING needs to snap him out of that.

It's not unique to AS men, all sorts of men can do this -- but AS makes it

even harder to snap him out.

I do know about this . the day before I got the restraining order, stbx

screamed at me for 45 minutes because I didn't help him clean the yard

(covered in 3 feet of snow) and instead did nothing. [i was in school

meetings and kid activities all day, except when I was cooking dinner.] He

then told me to kill myself because he'd do better without me. Why was he

cleaning the yard? Because a caseworker from social services was coming

because someone called them that our kids were suffering " abuse and neglect

by the father. " Once they found out I had gotten a restraining order

throwing him out, they dropped the case.

--Liz

----------

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------------------------------------

" We each have our own way of living in the world, together we

are like a symphony.

Some are the melody, some are the rhythm, some are the harmony It all blends

together, we are like a symphony, and each part is crucial.

We all contribute to the song of life. "

...Sondra

We might not always agree; but TOGETHER we will make a difference.

ASPIRES is a closed, confidential, moderated list.

Responsibility for posts to ASPIRES lies entirely with the original author.

Do NOT post mail off-list without the author's permission.

When in doubt, please refer to our list rules at:

http://www.aspires-relationships.com/info_rules.htm

ASPIRES ~ Climbing the mountain TOGETHER

http://www.aspires-relationships.com

[Guest guest]

Deb: OMG Liz, I LOVE the household appliance metaphor! Thanks, I plan to use

it, but I will make sure to give you credit.

Re: Questions

> I was wondering a lot of things about my partner and don't understand or

have the answers. especially number 4:

A lot of these are very general people things, or insensitive person of any

type things. Some are completely unique to the person and independent of

AS/NT or any other condition. Saying that, I'll answer as both an AS woman

and the (ex) wife of an AS man.

> 1. How come many Aspie men can't find jobs, or hold jobs, or don't want to

work, if they do have a job it's an uphill battle to try to get him to stay

at one job for more than 2 years? no job is ever satisfying to him because

he wants to make something of himself. But for a guy who needs specifics,

how come he is so general and chooses such a broad goal? To me if I want to

make something of myself I pick small goals to lead up to that like more

education.

Im stbx' case, while he was a fantastic engineer, he had two As-related

faults. 1) he could never gauge the correct amount of effort for a project,

so he'd work his heart out on everything, overthink solutions, and spend far

too much time solving every detail, when his boss asked for the big picture

only. He would treat people at work as thinking tools, not humans. He

almost never socialized with " the guys " unless it was forced on him. In all

the years we had kids (15 before the separation) we went to *one* family

holiday event, because he didn't like them (the kids and I did). Never went

to the adult social events, either.

> 3. How come his parents had no idea what he had when the symptoms are more

prominent in men as little boys? Why are most men diagnosed at such a late

age?

Because Asperger's didn't exist when they were little! Of course people were

Aspies, but the condition was not recognized, and when it was, it was

diagnosed only in completely dysfunctional people. When I first

self-diagnosed I told my mom, who was best friends with Sylvia Rimland (wife

of prominent autism researcher Bernie Rimland.) Without even talking to me,

Bernie and Sylvia said I couldn't be Aspie because I was married and living

a normal life. This was in the late 1990s.

> 4. How come he doesn't like or enjoy sex at all even though I know he

loves me? I've seen a lot of Aspie men have issues sexual inappropriateness,

or not knowing boundaries, but I actually wish he would be a little

inappropriate? Before I thought it was Asperger's I thought he was gay or

was sexually abused as child (all was negative except Aspergers)?

This has *nothing* to do with AS! stbx was oversexed . much of the reason

for the divorce was that he was on the down low (cheating with men) for 10

year. When I found out, he told me he'd be faithful -- 6 months later I

found hard evidence of two hookups, and a possible third.

> 5. How do I maintain my close relationship with my family with his

Asperger's when he doesn't want to come with me or he makes it uncomfortable

to be there so we always have to leave early?

Go alone. Or make sure he brings a book or laptop and give him space to be

asocial.

> 6. How come when we have a guest, he actually makes breakfast instead of

waiting for me to wake up to make it like he usually does? (he'll wait all

day if he has to until I wake up and I start to make something, then he says

he's hungry too). So everyone thinks I'm crazy cause he's so good to me and

spoils me? This is why I love guests, cause everything he needs to do around

the house gets done, and I can actually get him to say yes to going to

Costco with me.

Have you asked him?

I think a lot of men, especially Aspie men, forget that their wives are

human beings. They seem to classify us as self-aware household appliances.

We have to find ways to keep reminding them (nicely) that we are people too,

just like everyone else.

> 8. He used to throw out the garbage, but I did it once, and ever since

then he will never throw out the garbage, why does he do that, is it cause

he thinks I can do it so he doesn't need to, is it cause he likes rodents,

or is it cause the garbage bin is within walking distance?

1) The household appliance is so great, she can learn new skills! and 2)

he's Aspie enough that the sarcasm goes right over his head and he *does*

like rodents.

> 9. Why does he have break things when he's set off or screams? Why can't

he just say he's angry rather than scaring me with his yelling or road rage?

I think this is built into the Y chromosome. Seriously, I know quite a few

very NT men who do this.

> 10. Why does he think money grows on trees when we don't have that much

money?

> 11. Why does he try to impress his parents or buy their love by buying

them things we can't afford for ourselves, r giving them money we don't

have, when he doesn't want to visit his parents without me?

> 12. why can't he just put things back where he found it instead breaking

things to make them fit or messing up 2 days worth of cleaning that I

cleaned, why can't he clean he house?

> 13. why does he answer all my questions with " I don't know " or he ignores

me but if I ignore or answer him with I don't know he has a tantrum?

These all sound like specific incidents . and these issues happen with all

couples.

> 14. How come he's not afraid that I will find someone else to fulfill my

sexual desires because he doesn't want to make love?I would be afraid of him

finding someone else if I didn't fulfill his needs.

Stop me before I go off on an anthropological lecture on how monogamy is

cultural, and how many Aspies don't fully understand this aspect of culture,

and how many polyamorists are well-adjusted Aspies who don't care to follow

cultural norms of sexuality.

Summary: he may well not care if you take a lover; he may be polyamorous and

not get jealous.

> 15. why is it when he's sick my world has to come to a stop because all

his needs have to be taken care of but when I'm sick he's happy cause he

gets to play ps3 or surf the net without me bothering me, when all I want is

a glass of water. But if his parents or sister is sick he bends over

backwards going to the pharmacy to find everything they need or he searches

online for information on their symptoms? It's like I'm superwoman and me

being sick is not the end of his world.

Household appliances don't get sick. And you always get better, no? (yes,

this is heavy sarcasm)

> 18. How come he can't tell me or explain why he loves me?

Because his brain doesn't work that way. He shows he loves you by sharing

his life with you.

> 19. Why does he get disappointed and sad when I stop making all the effort

to be thoughtful and romantic, but I'm not allowed to be upset when he

doesn't do much thoughtful or romantic things for me?

He knows he needs love, but needs to be hit with a 2 by 4 to realize you are

not a household appliance.

Sorry for the snarky sarcasm; I'm in an odd mood tonight. It does sound like

he's taking you for granted, and SOMETHING needs to snap him out of that.

It's not unique to AS men, all sorts of men can do this -- but AS makes it

even harder to snap him out.

I do know about this . the day before I got the restraining order, stbx

screamed at me for 45 minutes because I didn't help him clean the yard

(covered in 3 feet of snow) and instead did nothing. [i was in school

meetings and kid activities all day, except when I was cooking dinner.] He

then told me to kill myself because he'd do better without me. Why was he

cleaning the yard? Because a caseworker from social services was coming

because someone called them that our kids were suffering " abuse and neglect

by the father. " Once they found out I had gotten a restraining order

throwing him out, they dropped the case.

--Liz

----------

Cartesian Bear at Zazzle: Shirts and Gifts:

http://www.zazzle.com/cartesianbear?rf=238831668488066559

Zazzle Coupons: http://www.zazzle.com/coupons?rf=238831668488066559

Knit Suite: Mobile Apps for Knitters http://knitsuite.polymathsolution.com

Gifts for Knitters: http://www.squidoo.com/gifts-for-knitters

------------------------------------

" We each have our own way of living in the world, together we

are like a symphony.

Some are the melody, some are the rhythm, some are the harmony It all blends

together, we are like a symphony, and each part is crucial.

We all contribute to the song of life. "

...Sondra

We might not always agree; but TOGETHER we will make a difference.

ASPIRES is a closed, confidential, moderated list.

Responsibility for posts to ASPIRES lies entirely with the original author.

Do NOT post mail off-list without the author's permission.

When in doubt, please refer to our list rules at:

http://www.aspires-relationships.com/info_rules.htm

ASPIRES ~ Climbing the mountain TOGETHER

http://www.aspires-relationships.com

[Guest guest]

Deb: I love what Greg says and I wanted to make a couple of points. See below. > 6. How come when we have a guest, he actually makes breakfast instead of waiting for me to wake up to make it like he usually does? (he'll wait all day if he has to until I wake up and I start to make something, then he says he's hungry too). So everyone thinks I'm crazy cause he's so good to me and spoils me? This is why I love guests, cause everything he needs to do around the house gets done, and I can actually get him to say yes to going to Costco with me.** Just get him to think there's a guest coming over in his mind and it'll be like Pavlov and his dogs. Bell rings, guest comes over, and breakfast is served. Eventually, the bell will ring and he'll make breakfast automatically. Wouldn't that be nice. So you just answered your own question. Invite guests over for breakfast and let him make breakfasts. He's happy. You're happy. Your relationship prospers with him.Deb: I love this one! Great solution. J I have found that loves to make me happy and if I give him enough instruction about what I want/need and then enough encouragement and praise, he will do it consistently. For years I did everything, now he makes my toast and coffee in the morning without ever being asked. Plus a whole lot more because I have become physically disabled. > 7. We have had to find 3 new dentists because everytime he makes an appointment and has an alert on his iphone, he still forgets, so we owe the dentist money for last minute cancellations, because he refuses to call them and try to make up a good excuse, so we end up finding a new dentist. Why, what is he so scared of, I can't cancel and remember all his psyc, doctor, haircut, or dentist appointments?** One of the principles that my best friend and I have in our relationship is to " be true. " Being true means to be true to ourselves and each other. She reminded me the other day about a difficult situation I had with telling her something. She said to me, " Be honest, even if it is difficult telling me how you're feeling. " So, I managed to get my words out, and she appreciated it. I think the both of you should sit down and have a discussion. Find out why it is that causes him to forget to cancel appointments and be true to each other. Even if it is difficult for him to get his words out to you about why he has trouble cancelling his appointments. I would begin with something positive about him, then go with what it is that is negative that is causing problems, then remind him how much you love him. That's just me.Deb: Yes! You need to communicate in compassionate ways and find out what he is able to do and then decide if you are willing and able to do the things that he is not. Just like Judy, to a certain extent I am ’s personal assistant but with each passing year it is much less so as he learns new skills and wants to use them because it makes him feel proud and he feels he is taking care of me. But it took a few decades to get here and lots of love, patience, boundary setting, and following through on consequences.> 13. why does he answer all my questions with " I don't know " or he ignores me but if I ignore or answer him with I don't know he has a tantrum?** Something's not right if he has to say " I don't know. " I get the impression his mental age is not what it should be for someone who has high functioning autism. With someone who has a developmental delay with ADHD or high functioning autism, it's about 75 to 80% of what a typical person's age should be. For example, if he is 30 years old, his mental age should be in the 22.5 to 24 year old range. His mental age sounds like someone who is in their teens from the way you describe things. But, I'm just going on what you have said and nothing else.Deb: Like I said about in another post, he answers every question with no and was completely unaware of it and even argued that he was not saying it. But after me complaining about it enough times he started being able to hear himself say it. Then he started being able to figure out why he was saying it. He needed more time. He had become accustomed to many years of my impatience wanting an immediate answer to questions (prior to his dx). So he developed this as a way for him to get some time to stop the whirring in his head to think about what I had asked him and formulate an answer. > 16. If he likes lists so much, how come he still always forgets to buy one item at the market even with the list? Or if he gets double charged for something he didn't buy he won't get a refund for something he never bought. And if I do he gets embarrassed when I don't even cause a scene, and the clerk is the one who feels bad for making a mistake? Why does he feel bad or embarrassed for another's mistake? Of if the server get his order wrong even if he's allergic, he won't dare let her know or ask for the right dish?** That makes absolutely no sense to me, even for someone like me who likes lists. Now every once in a while, I might forget to take a list with me to the grocery store and end up buying things I don't need or end up buying something I already have. But I do check my receipts more times than not and am aware when I feel I am being double charged for something. Deb: This is just another personal difference. If I had a dollar for every time did exactly that I could afford a lovely vacation somewhere. He misses things on list all the time. I think he gets distracted or overwhelmed. And he used to hate anything that attracted attention to him and would be terribly embarrassed if I did anything to attract attention so the same things would happen to us. Over time and as he has developed a stronger self image this has almost completely gone away, but he still misses the odd thing on the grocery list. > 18. How come he can't tell me or explain why he loves me?** I wanted to say at first that he's hiding something from you. Then after reading all these questions, I wondered if he hasn't reached the mental maturity to say to you or explain why he loves you. Then, I wondered if he was some kind of masculine pig who only cares about himself and not you. I wasn't able to explain growing up why I loved someone. I can now, but that's because I have evolved to the point where it's easy for me to tell and explain why I love my best friend. Deb: I think he hasn’t evolved to that point yet. That concept it still very hard for . He can write me lovely poems, emails, IMs but to tell me in person why he loves me is still difficult. I’m sure in his mind it is something like this: I just do! He can’t analyse it because he does not have the emotional IQ to do that. He may in time but right now it is just a fact of how he feels, no explanation required.2. If I am you, I'd begin to seriously question if I want to be with someone like him. Granted I have lived with high functioning autism for all my life, basically. I do realize that people mature at different ages. I came into my own in March 2009 at the age of 41 almost 42. I reflect upon the earlier times in my life, and see how different things were back then compared to now. How immature I was in handling the simplest of things compared to now. Asking for help in knowing what to do if someone got sick AS AN ADULT. Can people change? Yes. I did for the better. But the real question is this. Do you envision him changing for the better? Is there any hope he could possibly change, given the way he has been and his life? Your wording of the questions has serious doubt in my mind he will change.Deb: I agree with your assessment and I would have said the same about my husband. , you said you matured at the age of 41, 42. My husband matured at age 40. I think ’s husband is younger and he is just in the process of getting diagnosed. I know that with once he started to mature he learned at an exponential rate. I don’t know if that is true of all men with AS or can be true of ’s husband, but I think it is too early to write him off. He needs time to assimilate the knowledge that he has AS then start trying to deal with it in real life and the relationship. My most serious concern would be around sex. Because we are socialized that sex is the one thing we can’t go outside of our marriage to supplement, that deficit can be the most difficult to deal with. Are either one of them willing to have an open marriage? Is he willing to go to a therapist regarding the sexual deficit? Is willing to sacrifice a lifetime of sexual satisfaction or to live celibate? DebAnd like I said earlier, my then-girlfriend, a licensed physician, the one who diagnosed me officially with AS and AD/HD, chose to end her relationship with me because I wasn't getting any better from a mental standpoint. And you know what? It was the best decision she ever made in the relationship. To end the relationship. I believe that to this day. As much as you love him, love sometimes in itself can't save a relationship. Love is a two-way street, not one-way, in adult relationships. Until he matures to the point where he understands that relationships are all about give and take and compromise, you will be unhappy being with that man. Your wording of the questions and his actions - imply an unhappy future.I have done my best to use tact in my response. A friend told me one time that the truth can be a difficult thing to swallow sometimes. However, he wasn't kidding me when he said, " I don't tell you these things because I want to sugarcoat something for you. I say these things because I want you to see what you could be facing. " I appreciated his honesty very much.Hope this helps in some way,

[Guest guest]

Can I send this link to my daughter?

Deb

Re: Questions

>

>

>

>> I was wondering a lot of things about my partner and don't understand

>> or

> have the answers. especially number 4:

>

> A lot of these are very general people things, or insensitive person

> of any type things. Some are completely unique to the person and

> independent of AS/NT or any other condition. Saying that, I'll answer

> as both an AS woman and the (ex) wife of an AS man.

>

>> 1. How come many Aspie men can't find jobs, or hold jobs, or don't

>> want to

> work, if they do have a job it's an uphill battle to try to get him to

> stay at one job for more than 2 years? no job is ever satisfying to

> him because he wants to make something of himself. But for a guy who

> needs specifics, how come he is so general and chooses such a broad

> goal? To me if I want to make something of myself I pick small goals

> to lead up to that like more education.

>

> Im stbx' case, while he was a fantastic engineer, he had two

> As-related faults. 1) he could never gauge the correct amount of

> effort for a project, so he'd work his heart out on everything,

> overthink solutions, and spend far too much time solving every detail,

> when his boss asked for the big picture only. He would treat people

> at work as thinking tools, not humans. He almost never socialized with

> " the guys " unless it was forced on him. In all the years we had kids

> (15 before the separation) we went to *one* family holiday event,

> because he didn't like them (the kids and I did). Never went to the adult

social events, either.

>

>> 3. How come his parents had no idea what he had when the symptoms are

>> more

> prominent in men as little boys? Why are most men diagnosed at such a

> late age?

>

> Because Asperger's didn't exist when they were little! Of course

> people were Aspies, but the condition was not recognized, and when it

> was, it was diagnosed only in completely dysfunctional people. When I

> first self-diagnosed I told my mom, who was best friends with Sylvia

> Rimland (wife of prominent autism researcher Bernie Rimland.) Without

> even talking to me, Bernie and Sylvia said I couldn't be Aspie because

> I was married and living a normal life. This was in the late 1990s.

>

>> 4. How come he doesn't like or enjoy sex at all even though I know he

> loves me? I've seen a lot of Aspie men have issues sexual

> inappropriateness, or not knowing boundaries, but I actually wish he

> would be a little inappropriate? Before I thought it was Asperger's I

> thought he was gay or was sexually abused as child (all was negative

except Aspergers)?

>

> This has *nothing* to do with AS! stbx was oversexed . much of the

> reason for the divorce was that he was on the down low (cheating with

> men) for 10 year. When I found out, he told me he'd be faithful -- 6

> months later I found hard evidence of two hookups, and a possible third.

>

>> 5. How do I maintain my close relationship with my family with his

> Asperger's when he doesn't want to come with me or he makes it

> uncomfortable to be there so we always have to leave early?

>

> Go alone. Or make sure he brings a book or laptop and give him space

> to be asocial.

>

>> 6. How come when we have a guest, he actually makes breakfast instead

>> of

> waiting for me to wake up to make it like he usually does? (he'll wait

> all day if he has to until I wake up and I start to make something,

> then he says he's hungry too). So everyone thinks I'm crazy cause he's

> so good to me and spoils me? This is why I love guests, cause

> everything he needs to do around the house gets done, and I can

> actually get him to say yes to going to Costco with me.

>

> Have you asked him?

>

> I think a lot of men, especially Aspie men, forget that their wives

> are human beings. They seem to classify us as self-aware household

appliances.

> We have to find ways to keep reminding them (nicely) that we are

> people too, just like everyone else.

>

>

>> 8. He used to throw out the garbage, but I did it once, and ever

>> since

> then he will never throw out the garbage, why does he do that, is it

> cause he thinks I can do it so he doesn't need to, is it cause he

> likes rodents, or is it cause the garbage bin is within walking distance?

>

> 1) The household appliance is so great, she can learn new skills! and

> 2) he's Aspie enough that the sarcasm goes right over his head and he

> *does* like rodents.

>

>> 9. Why does he have break things when he's set off or screams? Why

>> can't

> he just say he's angry rather than scaring me with his yelling or road

rage?

>

> I think this is built into the Y chromosome. Seriously, I know quite a

> few very NT men who do this.

>

>> 10. Why does he think money grows on trees when we don't have that

>> much

> money?

>> 11. Why does he try to impress his parents or buy their love by

>> buying

> them things we can't afford for ourselves, r giving them money we

> don't have, when he doesn't want to visit his parents without me?

>> 12. why can't he just put things back where he found it instead

>> breaking

> things to make them fit or messing up 2 days worth of cleaning that I

> cleaned, why can't he clean he house?

>> 13. why does he answer all my questions with " I don't know " or he

>> ignores

> me but if I ignore or answer him with I don't know he has a tantrum?

>

> These all sound like specific incidents . and these issues happen with

> all couples.

>

>> 14. How come he's not afraid that I will find someone else to fulfill

>> my

> sexual desires because he doesn't want to make love?I would be afraid

> of him finding someone else if I didn't fulfill his needs.

>

> Stop me before I go off on an anthropological lecture on how monogamy

> is cultural, and how many Aspies don't fully understand this aspect of

> culture, and how many polyamorists are well-adjusted Aspies who don't

> care to follow cultural norms of sexuality.

>

> Summary: he may well not care if you take a lover; he may be

> polyamorous and not get jealous.

>

>> 15. why is it when he's sick my world has to come to a stop because

>> all

> his needs have to be taken care of but when I'm sick he's happy cause

> he gets to play ps3 or surf the net without me bothering me, when all

> I want is a glass of water. But if his parents or sister is sick he

> bends over backwards going to the pharmacy to find everything they

> need or he searches online for information on their symptoms? It's

> like I'm superwoman and me being sick is not the end of his world.

>

> Household appliances don't get sick. And you always get better, no?

> (yes, this is heavy sarcasm)

>

>> 18. How come he can't tell me or explain why he loves me?

>

> Because his brain doesn't work that way. He shows he loves you by

> sharing his life with you.

>

>> 19. Why does he get disappointed and sad when I stop making all the

>> effort

> to be thoughtful and romantic, but I'm not allowed to be upset when he

> doesn't do much thoughtful or romantic things for me?

>

> He knows he needs love, but needs to be hit with a 2 by 4 to realize

> you are not a household appliance.

>

>

> Sorry for the snarky sarcasm; I'm in an odd mood tonight. It does

> sound like he's taking you for granted, and SOMETHING needs to snap him

out of that.

> It's not unique to AS men, all sorts of men can do this -- but AS

> makes it even harder to snap him out.

>

> I do know about this . the day before I got the restraining order,

> stbx screamed at me for 45 minutes because I didn't help him clean the

> yard (covered in 3 feet of snow) and instead did nothing. [i was in

> school meetings and kid activities all day, except when I was cooking

> dinner.] He then told me to kill myself because he'd do better without

> me. Why was he cleaning the yard? Because a caseworker from social

> services was coming because someone called them that our kids were

> suffering " abuse and neglect by the father. " Once they found out I had

> gotten a restraining order throwing him out, they dropped the case.

>

> --Liz

>

>

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> ------------------------------------

>

> " We each have our own way of living in the world, together

> we are like a symphony.

> Some are the melody, some are the rhythm, some are the harmony It all

> blends together, we are like a symphony, and each part is crucial.

> We all contribute to the song of life. "

> ...Sondra

>

> We might not always agree; but TOGETHER we will make a difference.

>

> ASPIRES is a closed, confidential, moderated list.

> Responsibility for posts to ASPIRES lies entirely with the original

author.

> Do NOT post mail off-list without the author's permission.

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>

[Guest guest]

> LOL Deb yeh with hubby too he says no a lot, and then in the end sometimes

yes, I haven't figured it out either let me know if you do.

I actually do this myself -- maybe I can give you two some insight.

I have what is known as a " negative first reaction " . If I am at all negative or

unsure of my response, I'll automatically say " no " without thinking. When my

processing catches up with my mouth, I may have thought it through and the

answer is " yes " . Or not, but I'll know why I'm saying no.

I don't think it's because I dislike change, because most of these situations

aren't big changes. I think it's just a less impolite way of saying " I know you

need an answer right now, I feel like I'm being put on the spot and forced to

give an answer before I've thought about the answer, and it's easier to change

from no to yes than the other way around, and I'm not very invested in either

outcome, so I'll just say no and not worry any more. "

Much of this is because Aspies tend to have slower processing speed than NTs --

we not less intelligent, we just think a bit slower. We need to be given time to

think before being pressed for an answer. [This is why I love e-mail and hate

the phone.] To help cut down on the " no " answers, you need to show your Aspie

that you will wait for them to think:

" You don't have to answer right away, but I was wondering if . . . "

" I want your ideas on . . . no rush, I'll wait for your answer. "

Think about . . . and tell me . . . "

Once your Aspie has built up trust that you aren't pressuring them for a fast

answer, the nos may decrease, though you will get a pause instead.

--Liz

(realizing I have another Aspie Parent blog entry here)

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[Guest guest]

Bill, it's true, there are multiple references, research, etc. to support that,

but you are putting the burden of the proof on a besieged partner with a chaotic

life to prove it, LOL. *You* have some time on your hands, how 'bout *you*

supply supporting evidence to the contrary I'm smiling here, really, honest.

Just look at the proposed (and probably going to be cast in stone) criteria for

ASD in the DSM V. Sensory issues are now part of the criteria. Granted they

don't really get it right. Folks with SPD generally don't go around sniffing

objects like dogs. The more low functioning may, but the rest of us are more

subtle LOL.

Sensory processing disorder is a very common *co-morbid* issue with ASD. It

takes vast amounts of skull sweat to collate all incoming stimulus, be able to

make timely decision and act upon it in a timely manner. Hence it does take many

of us longer to process novel input in any given situation. Many of us have

learned to compensate by faking it in situations we aren't practiced in. Hence

Liane Holliday Willey's famous " pretending to be normal. " The ASD person can

eventually become tired and overwhelmed, sometimes resulting in the hall-mark

" meldown. " Depending how far into the spectrum the ASD person is, this will

happen sooner .. or later. Will you be satisfied if we can agree it is a

co-morbid disorder? I'm glad you don't have these co-morbids but many of us

do in varying degrees.

Another common co-morbid is dyspraxia. Tony Attwood even talks about the

distinctive AS " gait. " It's more noticeable in males than females .. if only

because socially, females are forgiven for being klutzes.

I think it's fair to say that since we are still calling Aspergers a " syndrome "

that we acknowledge the more prominent co-morbids as well.

Cheers from western Canada on an very chilly morning.

- Helen

> >

> >> LOL Deb yeh with hubby too he says no a lot, and then in the end

> >> sometimes yes, I haven't figured it out either let me know if you

> >> do.

> [ snip ]

> > Much of this is because Aspies tend to have slower processing speed

> > than NTs -- we not less intelligent, we just think a bit slower.

> [ snip ]

>

> Hm. I've heard that (... " slower " ...). ly, I don't believe it.

> Please, can you point me to some trustworthy documentation?

>

> - Bill ...AS, 79

>

> --

> WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

> http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

>

[Guest guest]

Liz/Bill

There is a branch of research that explains this slow thinking in people with AS. I am no expert and sorry I don't have any references at hand but there are plenty of open domain accounts on the internet. This theory is probably old hat to many on this site so apologies first.

Advances in MRI imaging have shown lower activity in part of the brain, the left amygdala, in people with AS than in NTs, when subject to various stimuli. There are many theories about the function of the amygdala. A very much over simplified and probably inaccurate explanation, using my own words, is that the amygdala is thought to have roles in managing memory and as an interface between the cerebrum, the more primitive part of the brain, and the cerebellum, the reasoning part of the brain. It is associated with such things as emotions and also in the fight or flight reflex.

Its as though NTs are able to use the primitive part of the brain to subconsciously process complex stimuli and allow the brain to use the reasoning part of the brain to process the more important stuff. People with AS dont seem to have the seem not to be able utilise this subconscious co-processor so well and have to reason through absolutely everything because there is a weak interface between these brain parts. This very oversimplified theory explains to me why I have difficulty in certain areas. For every decision I make, I have to reason things through and think with my head. NTs can do this but also have the ability just to understand or, perhaps, think with their heart by subconscious processing with the primitive part of the brain.

The lack of this co-processor explains to me why I have to think through and reason about everything I do. For example I can easily make decisions about which car or computer to buy, or about very important work decisions, because I have information on which I can reason through all of the complex issues to cone to a reasoned choice. But, ask me what I want for dinner or what colour to paint the living room and I am stumped, unless there is something that I can reason through like we have no eggs.

Reasoning things through takes energy and this theory explains why I can suffer with sensory overload. I just tire myself out trying to reason through all of the incoming stimuli. It also explains why I miss or misunderstand non-verbal communication, particularly if it is out of context or in a complex stimulating environment.

One could argue that because the reasoning part of the brain has to work harder in people with AS, just to process mundane things, it exercises the correct part of the brain to help reason through complex problems and think very deeply. This very presumptuous part of the theory may also explain why people with AS can excel in areas like engineering, computer programming, etc.

Just a thought

Steve > >>> LOL Deb yeh with hubby too he says no a lot, and then in the end> >>> sometimes yes, I haven't figured it out either let me know if you> >>> do.> > [ snip ]> >> Much of this is because Aspies tend to have slower processing speed> >> than NTs -- we not less intelligent, we just think a bit slower.> > [ snip ]> > > > Hm. I've heard that (..."slower"...). ly, I don't believe it. > > Please, can you point me to some trustworthy documentation?> > > Bill, I don't have documentation, only personal anecdotal evidence and hearsay.> > I'm plenty smart … I don't have an IQ* but if I did, it would be way up there. Not bragging, just the truth.> > However, I have noticed that while I think deeply, I don't think particularly quickly. Especially when it comes to conversations, I'm frequently left far behind in the talk stream while thinking about what to say. > > It's not severe enough to count as an impairment, but it is noticeable. Especially when put on the spot to answer quick questions, which is why I tend to say "no" . . . it buys me time to think.> > --Liz> > * IQ is nothing more than a test score, on a test that tries to determine general intelligence. I've never taken an IQ test, thus I have no IQ score.> ----------> Cartesian Bear at Zazzle: Shirts and Gifts: http://www.zazzle.com/cartesianbear?rf=238831668488066559> Zazzle Coupons: http://www.zazzle.com/coupons?rf=238831668488066559 > > Knit Suite: Mobile Apps for Knitters http://knitsuite.polymathsolution.com> > Gifts for Knitters: http://www.squidoo.com/gifts-for-knitters>

[Guest guest]

Newland wrote:

> In my experience, personally, and in that of the few " real " AS I know

> face-to-face, it's most often *lightning fast*. And more often than

> not it's correct. ...Or at least workable, with fall-backs already

> pre-figured. To rather badly paraphrase Yoda: " There is no 'slow';

> only 'DO' "

>

> Hi Bill:

>

> Isn't this part of the dilemma? Do you think all folks with autism

> can process at this speed accross the board like in relationships,

> team sports and working with others?

I do not think it's across-the-board. On the other hand, it's " always "

worked that way for me, no matter the context.

> OR do you think it is related

> to their interests or strengths that might be job or special interest

> related?

I've associated the trait with so-called " visual-spatial " cognition.

That's a very personal opinion, from self inspection, NOT based on any

research I know about.

My " world " is one vast canvas - everything's connected to everything

else - wherein the relationship of one thing to another is seen,

*understood* literally " in a wink " . By extension, inter alia the more

one knows (is added to the canvas), the speedier can be one's thinking.

So of course a job, hobby, travel - and thinking about all or any of

it - has to influence the talent.

> Just curious?

>

>

- Bill ...AS, 79

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

helen_foisy wrote:

> I have always believed there has to be some genetic advantage to having a

*slightly* autistic member in the tribe. Some autists can process intellectual

and instrumental problems at " lightning fast speed. " And in doing so, make new

discoveries and generally improve the chances of the tribe's survival. Due to

their sensory wiring, the mildly autistic's almost shaman-like intuition of the

physical world is a marvel.

In an interdependent tribe setting, I agree. Whatever differences the

slightly autistic person might have is easily offset by the unique

talents they bring to the tribe. It's a win-win for all involved.

Unfortunately, the modern world is far less interdependent. Each person

is expected to be more of a generalist having all of the skills

necessary to succeed as an individual.

Best,

~CJ

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

" Often we have to conform to the group's expectations in order to be

celebrated as unique within the group. " ~~ Winner

http://www.socialthinking.com/

[Guest guest]

Bill:

Many thanks for the recap of the show.

[Guest guest]

I'll come back to my argument earlier regarding the connection between the

reasoning and subconscious parts of the brain. As someone else on here has since

described as intuitive thinking and reasoning. I can think, make complex

decisions and act very quickly if armed with information that can be reasoned

through logically. I am useless at making decisions based on intuition or feel.

I seriously do not believe that NTs make decisions based on guess work. I

believe that they are able to use intuitive thinking to process some types of

information off line.

Steve