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Hi Randy,

Good points!

Just one thought re. e-mailing moderators. I bet many people especially new members do not know how to do this or even who the moderators are and it's the only Yahoo group I've ever belonged to where the members' list which includes e-mail addresses for moderators is not visible. I guess there is an ACT reason for this though I'm not sure what it is? Maybe there's an argument for including their names on the homepage, maybe not?

On the other hand I've noticed that the Links section of the group website,which I presume anyone who joins this list can add links to, has a link I could do without:

The Best Herbal Remedies I've ever used at Mom & Pop Prices

Soozy

Subject: ACT list guidelines (borrowed) and a Groucho Marx quote (ditto)To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 8:23

I looked up the old Groucho quote and it goes like this:"I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. IDON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.'"So why are we here on this list?Not to vote on whether someone "gets to stay" or "has to leave."Even the most kindly meant vote for "yes" is missing the point.We're here to share what we're learning about ACT. We're here tosupport each other in doing so. To practice compassion the way weare learning to practice self-compassion.The moment we feel harshly judgmental of someone else on the list?The moment we are 100 percent sure we are right and someone else isnot only wrong but doing bad things on purpose?That's a great moment to practice ACT. Not to be "good" or "nice" -but because we are learning to care for ourselves.A list like this is an odd social environment because you never

getto see who you're talking to. As with email, it is easy tomisinterpret. It is hard even to know who is listening. Hard toknow if you are being heard, or who it is that is hearing you. Orwhat you sound like to them.Misunderstandings and high emotions are not the problem. Conflictis not the problem. Conflict can be creative if people make itclear they care about each other.If a problem really seems out of hand we can backchannel (i.e.email) a moderator. But the first place to look is ourselves and atthe opportunity we have been given to learn something.The list as a social environment is much bigger than we might thinkit is. How big? Our home page on Yahoo tells me just now that wehave 1,508 members. We're nearly as big as the ACT list forprofessionals, which has 1,667 members.A conversation with 1,508 members can use a few guidelines. Theprofessional list sends out such

guidelines each month to itsmembers. This list once did too. In fact the professionalguidelines look a lot like the ones we used to get. I've includedsome excerpts below. I find them helpful - you may too.And now I am going to spend some time listening to a list with1,508 members. Even on days when a list like this is silent it is saying something.- RandyEXCERPTS FROM ACT PROFESSIONAL LIST GUIDELINES:All of these lists have a culture of openness, respect, andself-criticism. This is not a good place to show off, to agree justbecause some so-called big-wig said so, or to play gotcha. We don'tdo "flame wars" on this list: try to put "being right and lookinggood" at the door. Negative personal comments of all kinds areabsolutely unwelcome (watch your adjectives! That is especiallytrue when responding to a post from someone else that is criticalof something you said or something

you believe in).Give more than you get and try to help others. Please don't hog thelist and if you get feedback (back channel or openly on the list)that the list is tired of an issue, please let it go. This list isnot a place to grind an axe. If you see someone going south on thelist, you might try a kind and cautious back channel post.Take personal responsibility for the list. It is here for us alland we need to work together to keep it going in the rightdirection.Also think what would happen if everyone posted multiple times aday. It would immediately overwhelm us ... so be moderate in yourpost. If you are going beyond once a day (max.) look long and hardand see what is going on. Are you just drawing attention toyourself or is this helpful to others? If it is, go for it. If not,maybe it is time to play with the dog more. Conversely, if younever post -- perhaps fearing you "have

nothing to say" -- see ifthis is what you want to be about.Have fun!

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Soozy, I think you're right - the moderators should be listed on the group home page in Yahoo. It's not like their identities are supposed to be a secret! I also think it would be a good idea to have that monthly automated message go out, "Welcome to the list," as it used to. Maybe if the moderators are eavesdropping, they could think about these suggestions ...- R.

Hi Randy,

Good points!

Just one thought re. e-mailing moderators. I bet many people especially new members do not know how to do this or even who the moderators are and it's the only Yahoo group I've ever belonged to where the members' list which includes e-mail addresses for moderators is not visible. I guess there is an ACT reason for this though I'm not sure what it is? Maybe there's an argument for including their names on the homepage, maybe not?

On the other hand I've noticed that the Links section of the group website,which I presume anyone who joins this list can add links to, has a link I could do without:

The Best Herbal Remedies I've ever used at Mom & Pop Prices

Soozy

Subject: ACT list guidelines (borrowed) and a Groucho Marx quote (ditto)To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 8:23

I looked up the old Groucho quote and it goes like this:"I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. IDON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.'"So why are we here on this list?Not to vote on whether someone "gets to stay" or "has to leave."Even the most kindly meant vote for "yes" is missing the point.We're here to share what we're learning about ACT. We're here tosupport each other in doing so. To practice compassion the way weare learning to practice self-compassion.The moment we feel harshly judgmental of someone else on the list?The moment we are 100 percent sure we are right and someone else isnot only wrong but doing bad things on purpose?That's a great moment to practice ACT. Not to be "good" or "nice" -but because we are learning to care for ourselves.A list like this is an odd social environment because you never

getto see who you're talking to. As with email, it is easy tomisinterpret. It is hard even to know who is listening. Hard toknow if you are being heard, or who it is that is hearing you. Orwhat you sound like to them.Misunderstandings and high emotions are not the problem. Conflictis not the problem. Conflict can be creative if people make itclear they care about each other.If a problem really seems out of hand we can backchannel (i.e.email) a moderator. But the first place to look is ourselves and atthe opportunity we have been given to learn something.The list as a social environment is much bigger than we might thinkit is. How big? Our home page on Yahoo tells me just now that wehave 1,508 members. We're nearly as big as the ACT list forprofessionals, which has 1,667 members.A conversation with 1,508 members can use a few guidelines. Theprofessional list sends out such

guidelines each month to itsmembers. This list once did too. In fact the professionalguidelines look a lot like the ones we used to get. I've includedsome excerpts below. I find them helpful - you may too.And now I am going to spend some time listening to a list with1,508 members. Even on days when a list like this is silent it is saying something.- RandyEXCERPTS FROM ACT PROFESSIONAL LIST GUIDELINES:All of these lists have a culture of openness, respect, andself-criticism. This is not a good place to show off, to agree justbecause some so-called big-wig said so, or to play gotcha. We don'tdo "flame wars" on this list: try to put "being right and lookinggood" at the door. Negative personal comments of all kinds areabsolutely unwelcome (watch your adjectives! That is especiallytrue when responding to a post from someone else that is criticalof something you said or something

you believe in).Give more than you get and try to help others. Please don't hog thelist and if you get feedback (back channel or openly on the list)that the list is tired of an issue, please let it go. This list isnot a place to grind an axe. If you see someone going south on thelist, you might try a kind and cautious back channel post.Take personal responsibility for the list. It is here for us alland we need to work together to keep it going in the rightdirection.Also think what would happen if everyone posted multiple times aday. It would immediately overwhelm us ... so be moderate in yourpost. If you are going beyond once a day (max.) look long and hardand see what is going on. Are you just drawing attention toyourself or is this helpful to others? If it is, go for it. If not,maybe it is time to play with the dog more. Conversely, if younever post -- perhaps fearing you "have

nothing to say" -- see ifthis is what you want to be about.Have fun!

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Just one thought on why the moderators are not a big presence in a group about utilizing ACT skills:  in ACT one of the biggest lessons (at least for me) is " control is frequently the problem " .   Having moderators exert control over the ups and downs and normal processing of the group is not really consistent with the idea that the world operates as it does and our best shot at having peace is to learn to roll with it.  OK, that is certainly my own take on some of the ACT stuff but it seems to work for me when I can accomplish it.  :)

 

Soozy, I think you're right - the moderators should be listed on the group home page in Yahoo. It's not like their identities are supposed to be a secret! I also think it would be a good idea to have that monthly automated message go out, " Welcome to the list, " as it used to. 

Maybe if the moderators are eavesdropping, they could think about these suggestions ...- R.

 

Hi Randy,

 

Good points!

 

Just one thought re. e-mailing moderators. I bet many people especially new members do not know how to do this or even who the moderators are and it's the only Yahoo group I've ever belonged to where the members' list which includes e-mail addresses for moderators is not visible. I guess there is an ACT reason for this though I'm not sure what it is? Maybe there's an argument for including their names on the homepage, maybe not?

 

On the other hand I've noticed that the Links section of the group website,which I presume  anyone who joins this list can add links to, has a link I could do without:

 

The Best Herbal Remedies I've ever used at Mom & Pop Prices

 

Soozy

Subject: ACT list guidelines (borrowed) and a Groucho Marx quote (ditto)

To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 8:23

 

I looked up the old Groucho quote and it goes like this: " I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. IDON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.' "

So why are we here on this list?Not to vote on whether someone " gets to stay " or " has to leave. " Even the most kindly meant vote for " yes " is missing the point.We're here to share what we're learning about ACT. We're here to

support each other in doing so. To practice compassion the way weare learning to practice self-compassion.The moment we feel harshly judgmental of someone else on the list?The moment we are 100 percent sure we are right and someone else is

not only wrong but doing bad things on purpose?That's a great moment to practice ACT. Not to be " good " or " nice " -but because we are learning to care for ourselves.A list like this is an odd social environment because you never

getto see who you're talking to. As with email, it is easy tomisinterpret. It is hard even to know who is listening. Hard toknow if you are being heard, or who it is that is hearing you. Orwhat you sound like to them.

Misunderstandings and high emotions are not the problem. Conflictis not the problem. Conflict can be creative if people make itclear they care about each other.If a problem really seems out of hand we can backchannel (i.e.

email) a moderator. But the first place to look is ourselves and atthe opportunity we have been given to learn something.The list as a social environment is much bigger than we might thinkit is. How big? Our home page on Yahoo tells me just now that we

have 1,508 members. We're nearly as big as the ACT list forprofessionals, which has 1,667 members.A conversation with 1,508 members can use a few guidelines. Theprofessional list sends out such

guidelines each month to itsmembers. This list once did too. In fact the professionalguidelines look a lot like the ones we used to get. I've includedsome excerpts below. I find them helpful - you may too.

And now I am going to spend some time listening to a list with1,508 members. Even on days when a list like this is silent it is saying something.- RandyEXCERPTS FROM ACT PROFESSIONAL LIST GUIDELINES:

All of these lists have a culture of openness, respect, andself-criticism. This is not a good place to show off, to agree justbecause some so-called big-wig said so, or to play gotcha. We don'tdo " flame wars " on this list: try to put " being right and looking

good " at the door. Negative personal comments of all kinds areabsolutely unwelcome (watch your adjectives! That is especiallytrue when responding to a post from someone else that is criticalof something you said or something

you believe in).Give more than you get and try to help others. Please don't hog thelist and if you get feedback (back channel or openly on the list)that the list is tired of an issue, please let it go. This list is

not a place to grind an axe. If you see someone going south on thelist, you might try a kind and cautious back channel post.Take personal responsibility for the list. It is here for us alland we need to work together to keep it going in the right

direction.Also think what would happen if everyone posted multiple times aday. It would immediately overwhelm us ... so be moderate in yourpost. If you are going beyond once a day (max.) look long and hard

and see what is going on. Are you just drawing attention toyourself or is this helpful to others? If it is, go for it. If not,maybe it is time to play with the dog more. Conversely, if younever post -- perhaps fearing you " have

nothing to say " -- see ifthis is what you want to be about.Have fun!

--

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Randy, I think it's great that you posted these guidelines. I hope everyone that

participates will review them. If we follow them thoughtfully, we will almost

certainly be in a better place than we have been recently.

> >

> >

> > Subject: ACT list guidelines (borrowed) and a Groucho

Marx quote (ditto)

> > To: ACT_for_the_Public

> > Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 8:23

> >

> >

> > I looked up the old Groucho quote and it goes like this:

> >

> > " I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I

> > DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.' "

> >

> > So why are we here on this list?

> >

> > Not to vote on whether someone " gets to stay " or " has to leave. "

> > Even the most kindly meant vote for " yes " is missing the point.

> >

> > We're here to share what we're learning about ACT. We're here to

> > support each other in doing so. To practice compassion the way we

> > are learning to practice self-compassion.

> >

> > The moment we feel harshly judgmental of someone else on the list?

> > The moment we are 100 percent sure we are right and someone else is

> > not only wrong but doing bad things on purpose?

> >

> > That's a great moment to practice ACT. Not to be " good " or " nice " -

> > but because we are learning to care for ourselves.

> >

> > A list like this is an odd social environment because you never get

> > to see who you're talking to. As with email, it is easy to

> > misinterpret. It is hard even to know who is listening. Hard to

> > know if you are being heard, or who it is that is hearing you. Or

> > what you sound like to them.

> >

> > Misunderstandings and high emotions are not the problem. Conflict

> > is not the problem. Conflict can be creative if people make it

> > clear they care about each other.

> >

> > If a problem really seems out of hand we can backchannel (i.e.

> > email) a moderator. But the first place to look is ourselves and at

> > the opportunity we have been given to learn something.

> >

> > The list as a social environment is much bigger than we might think

> > it is. How big? Our home page on Yahoo tells me just now that we

> > have 1,508 members. We're nearly as big as the ACT list for

> > professionals, which has 1,667 members.

> >

> > A conversation with 1,508 members can use a few guidelines. The

> > professional list sends out such guidelines each month to its

> > members. This list once did too. In fact the professional

> > guidelines look a lot like the ones we used to get. I've included

> > some excerpts below. I find them helpful - you may too.

> >

> > And now I am going to spend some time listening to a list with

> > 1,508 members. Even on days when a list like this is silent it

> > is saying something.

> >

> > - Randy

> >

> > EXCERPTS FROM ACT PROFESSIONAL LIST GUIDELINES:

> >

> > All of these lists have a culture of openness, respect, and

> > self-criticism. This is not a good place to show off, to agree just

> > because some so-called big-wig said so, or to play gotcha. We don't

> > do " flame wars " on this list: try to put " being right and looking

> > good " at the door. Negative personal comments of all kinds are

> > absolutely unwelcome (watch your adjectives! That is especially

> > true when responding to a post from someone else that is critical

> > of something you said or something you believe in).

> >

> > Give more than you get and try to help others. Please don't hog the

> > list and if you get feedback (back channel or openly on the list)

> > that the list is tired of an issue, please let it go. This list is

> > not a place to grind an axe. If you see someone going south on the

> > list, you might try a kind and cautious back channel post.

> >

> > Take personal responsibility for the list. It is here for us all

> > and we need to work together to keep it going in the right

> > direction.

> >

> > Also think what would happen if everyone posted multiple times a

> > day. It would immediately overwhelm us ... so be moderate in your

> > post. If you are going beyond once a day (max.) look long and hard

> > and see what is going on. Are you just drawing attention to

> > yourself or is this helpful to others? If it is, go for it. If not,

> > maybe it is time to play with the dog more. Conversely, if you

> > never post -- perhaps fearing you " have nothing to say " -- see if

> > this is what you want to be about.

> >

> > Have fun!

> >

> >

> >

>

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I'm certainly not suggesting people should run and tell teacher at every opportunity but to take your point to its logical conclusion why is there a need for moderators at all?

I'd advocate moderate use of moderators and moderation and I'd like to be moderately aware of moderators' no doubt moderate identities..

Moderation rules OK! <G>

S.

Subject: ACT list guidelines (borrowed) and a Groucho Marx quote (ditto)To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 8:23

I looked up the old Groucho quote and it goes like this:"I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. IDON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.'"So why are we here on this list?Not to vote on whether someone "gets to stay" or "has to leave."Even the most kindly meant vote for "yes" is missing the point.We're here to share what we're learning about ACT. We're here tosupport each other in doing so. To practice compassion the way weare learning to practice self-compassion.The moment we feel harshly judgmental of someone else on the list?The moment we are 100 percent sure we are right and someone else isnot only wrong but doing bad things on purpose?That's a great moment to practice ACT. Not to be "good" or "nice" -but because we are learning to care for ourselves.A list like this is an odd social environment because you never

getto see who you're talking to. As with email, it is easy tomisinterpret. It is hard even to know who is listening. Hard toknow if you are being heard, or who it is that is hearing you. Orwhat you sound like to them.Misunderstandings and high emotions are not the problem. Conflictis not the problem. Conflict can be creative if people make itclear they care about each other.If a problem really seems out of hand we can backchannel (i.e.email) a moderator. But the first place to look is ourselves and atthe opportunity we have been given to learn something.The list as a social environment is much bigger than we might thinkit is. How big? Our home page on Yahoo tells me just now that wehave 1,508 members. We're nearly as big as the ACT list forprofessionals, which has 1,667 members.A conversation with 1,508 members can use a few guidelines. Theprofessional list sends out such

guidelines each month to itsmembers. This list once did too. In fact the professionalguidelines look a lot like the ones we used to get. I've includedsome excerpts below. I find them helpful - you may too.And now I am going to spend some time listening to a list with1,508 members. Even on days when a list like this is silent it is saying something.- RandyEXCERPTS FROM ACT PROFESSIONAL LIST GUIDELINES:All of these lists have a culture of openness, respect, andself-criticism. This is not a good place to show off, to agree justbecause some so-called big-wig said so, or to play gotcha. We don'tdo "flame wars" on this list: try to put "being right and lookinggood" at the door. Negative personal comments of all kinds areabsolutely unwelcome (watch your adjectives! That is especiallytrue when responding to a post from someone else that is criticalof something you said or something

you believe in).Give more than you get and try to help others. Please don't hog thelist and if you get feedback (back channel or openly on the list)that the list is tired of an issue, please let it go. This list isnot a place to grind an axe. If you see someone going south on thelist, you might try a kind and cautious back channel post.Take personal responsibility for the list. It is here for us alland we need to work together to keep it going in the rightdirection.Also think what would happen if everyone posted multiple times aday. It would immediately overwhelm us ... so be moderate in yourpost. If you are going beyond once a day (max.) look long and hardand see what is going on. Are you just drawing attention toyourself or is this helpful to others? If it is, go for it. If not,maybe it is time to play with the dog more. Conversely, if younever post -- perhaps fearing you "have

nothing to say" -- see ifthis is what you want to be about.Have fun!

--

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, you've hit the nail on the head.In Tibet, they have a saying, " if the ground hurts your bare feet, can you cover the earth with leather so it's soft wherever you go? Or do you put on a pair of sandals? "  

ACT seems to be about taking the world as you find it, not demanding that people, places and things which disturb us either follow rules to make us more comfortable or else go away. Certainly the larger world, which we're all presumably trying to be more vitally involved in, doesn't honor our sensibilities that way. 

Jim

 

Just one thought on why the moderators are not a big presence in a group about utilizing ACT skills:  in ACT one of the biggest lessons (at least for me) is " control is frequently the problem " .   Having moderators exert control over the ups and downs and normal processing of the group is not really consistent with the idea that the world operates as it does and our best shot at having peace is to learn to roll with it.  OK, that is certainly my own take on some of the ACT stuff but it seems to work for me when I can accomplish it.  :)

 

Soozy, I think you're right - the moderators should be listed on the group home page in Yahoo. It's not like their identities are supposed to be a secret! I also think it would be a good idea to have that monthly automated message go out, " Welcome to the list, " as it used to. 

Maybe if the moderators are eavesdropping, they could think about these suggestions ...- R.

 

Hi Randy,

 

Good points!

 

Just one thought re. e-mailing moderators. I bet many people especially new members do not know how to do this or even who the moderators are and it's the only Yahoo group I've ever belonged to where the members' list which includes e-mail addresses for moderators is not visible. I guess there is an ACT reason for this though I'm not sure what it is? Maybe there's an argument for including their names on the homepage, maybe not?

 

On the other hand I've noticed that the Links section of the group website,which I presume  anyone who joins this list can add links to, has a link I could do without:

 

The Best Herbal Remedies I've ever used at Mom & Pop Prices

 

Soozy

Subject: ACT list guidelines (borrowed) and a Groucho Marx quote (ditto)

To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 8:23

 

I looked up the old Groucho quote and it goes like this: " I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. IDON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.' "

So why are we here on this list?Not to vote on whether someone " gets to stay " or " has to leave. " Even the most kindly meant vote for " yes " is missing the point.We're here to share what we're learning about ACT. We're here to

support each other in doing so. To practice compassion the way weare learning to practice self-compassion.The moment we feel harshly judgmental of someone else on the list?The moment we are 100 percent sure we are right and someone else is

not only wrong but doing bad things on purpose?That's a great moment to practice ACT. Not to be " good " or " nice " -but because we are learning to care for ourselves.A list like this is an odd social environment because you never

getto see who you're talking to. As with email, it is easy tomisinterpret. It is hard even to know who is listening. Hard toknow if you are being heard, or who it is that is hearing you. Orwhat you sound like to them.

Misunderstandings and high emotions are not the problem. Conflictis not the problem. Conflict can be creative if people make itclear they care about each other.If a problem really seems out of hand we can backchannel (i.e.

email) a moderator. But the first place to look is ourselves and atthe opportunity we have been given to learn something.The list as a social environment is much bigger than we might thinkit is. How big? Our home page on Yahoo tells me just now that we

have 1,508 members. We're nearly as big as the ACT list forprofessionals, which has 1,667 members.A conversation with 1,508 members can use a few guidelines. Theprofessional list sends out such

guidelines each month to itsmembers. This list once did too. In fact the professionalguidelines look a lot like the ones we used to get. I've includedsome excerpts below. I find them helpful - you may too.

And now I am going to spend some time listening to a list with1,508 members. Even on days when a list like this is silent it is saying something.- RandyEXCERPTS FROM ACT PROFESSIONAL LIST GUIDELINES:

All of these lists have a culture of openness, respect, andself-criticism. This is not a good place to show off, to agree justbecause some so-called big-wig said so, or to play gotcha. We don'tdo " flame wars " on this list: try to put " being right and looking

good " at the door. Negative personal comments of all kinds areabsolutely unwelcome (watch your adjectives! That is especiallytrue when responding to a post from someone else that is criticalof something you said or something

you believe in).Give more than you get and try to help others. Please don't hog thelist and if you get feedback (back channel or openly on the list)that the list is tired of an issue, please let it go. This list is

not a place to grind an axe. If you see someone going south on thelist, you might try a kind and cautious back channel post.Take personal responsibility for the list. It is here for us alland we need to work together to keep it going in the right

direction.Also think what would happen if everyone posted multiple times aday. It would immediately overwhelm us ... so be moderate in yourpost. If you are going beyond once a day (max.) look long and hard

and see what is going on. Are you just drawing attention toyourself or is this helpful to others? If it is, go for it. If not,maybe it is time to play with the dog more. Conversely, if younever post -- perhaps fearing you " have

nothing to say " -- see ifthis is what you want to be about.Have fun!

--

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So, taking it to the logical conclusion you mention, Soozy, I have not seen a need for moderators on this list at all ... so far.

Now if someone were threatening to blow their brains out or hurt someone ... well, that's different. So far, just a lot of name-calling and ego-hurting and guilt-tossing and I'm-right/you're wrong and I don't like you because you dissed me two months or a year ago, blah blah blah

-- the kind of stuff we're all used to in life and can handle/defuse, with ACT.

Hey, it's all learning material to me and I welcome it. I don't regret a single word I said on this list, nor what anyone has ever said to me or about me. It's all life. Yeah, I wish I hadn't said some stuff, but I don't regret being where I was at that time and saying what I did at that time -- what good would that do? When I know better, I do better.

H

ACT list guidelines (borrowed) and a Groucho Marx quote (ditto)To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 8:23

I looked up the old Groucho quote and it goes like this:"I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. IDON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.'"So why are we here on this list?Not to vote on whether someone "gets to stay" or "has to leave."Even the most kindly meant vote for "yes" is missing the point.We're here to share what we're learning about ACT. We're here tosupport each other in doing so. To practice compassion the way weare learning to practice self-compassion.The moment we feel harshly judgmental of someone else on the list?The moment we are 100 percent sure we are right and someone else isnot only wrong but doing bad things on purpose?That's a great moment to practice ACT. Not to be "good" or "nice" -but because we are learning to care for ourselves.A list like this is an odd social environment because you never getto see who you're talking to. As with email, it is easy tomisinterpret. It is hard even to know who is listening. Hard toknow if you are being heard, or who it is that is hearing you. Orwhat you sound like to them.Misunderstandings and high emotions are not the problem. Conflictis not the problem. Conflict can be creative if people make itclear they care about each other.If a problem really seems out of hand we can backchannel (i.e.email) a moderator. But the first place to look is ourselves and atthe opportunity we have been given to learn something.The list as a social environment is much bigger than we might thinkit is. How big? Our home page on Yahoo tells me just now that wehave 1,508 members. We're nearly as big as the ACT list forprofessionals, which has 1,667 members.A conversation with 1,508 members can use a few guidelines. Theprofessional list sends out such guidelines each month to itsmembers. This list once did too. In fact the professionalguidelines look a lot like the ones we used to get. I've includedsome excerpts below. I find them helpful - you may too.And now I am going to spend some time listening to a list with1,508 members. Even on days when a list like this is silent it is saying something.- RandyEXCERPTS FROM ACT PROFESSIONAL LIST GUIDELINES:All of these lists have a culture of openness, respect, andself-criticism. This is not a good place to show off, to agree justbecause some so-called big-wig said so, or to play gotcha. We don'tdo "flame wars" on this list: try to put "being right and lookinggood" at the door. Negative personal comments of all kinds areabsolutely unwelcome (watch your adjectives! That is especiallytrue when responding to a post from someone else that is criticalof something you said or something you believe in).Give more than you get and try to help others. Please don't hog thelist and if you get feedback (back channel or openly on the list)that the list is tired of an issue, please let it go. This list isnot a place to grind an axe. If you see someone going south on thelist, you might try a kind and cautious back channel post.Take personal responsibility for the list. It is here for us alland we need to work together to keep it going in the rightdirection.Also think what would happen if everyone posted multiple times aday. It would immediately overwhelm us ... so be moderate in yourpost. If you are going beyond once a day (max.) look long and hardand see what is going on. Are you just drawing attention toyourself or is this helpful to others? If it is, go for it. If not,maybe it is time to play with the dog more. Conversely, if younever post -- perhaps fearing you "have nothing to say" -- see ifthis is what you want to be about.Have fun!

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This is the most insightful and helpful thing I have read in months. Thanks Jim!

I've been trying to cover my world in leather. Just need to get me some decent sandals.

ACT list guidelines (borrowed) and a Groucho Marx quote (ditto)To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 8:23

I looked up the old Groucho quote and it goes like this:"I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. IDON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.'"So why are we here on this list?Not to vote on whether someone "gets to stay" or "has to leave."Even the most kindly meant vote for "yes" is missing the point.We're here to share what we're learning about ACT. We're here tosupport each other in doing so. To practice compassion the way weare learning to practice self-compassion.The moment we feel harshly judgmental of someone else on the list?The moment we are 100 percent sure we are right and someone else isnot only wrong but doing bad things on purpose?That's a great moment to practice ACT. Not to be "good" or "nice" -but because we are learning to care for ourselves.A list like this is an odd social environment because you never getto see who you're talking to. As with email, it is easy tomisinterpret. It is hard even to know who is listening. Hard toknow if you are being heard, or who it is that is hearing you. Orwhat you sound like to them.Misunderstandings and high emotions are not the problem. Conflictis not the problem. Conflict can be creative if people make itclear they care about each other.If a problem really seems out of hand we can backchannel (i.e.email) a moderator. But the first place to look is ourselves and atthe opportunity we have been given to learn something.The list as a social environment is much bigger than we might thinkit is. How big? Our home page on Yahoo tells me just now that wehave 1,508 members. We're nearly as big as the ACT list forprofessionals, which has 1,667 members.A conversation with 1,508 members can use a few guidelines. Theprofessional list sends out such guidelines each month to itsmembers. This list once did too. In fact the professionalguidelines look a lot like the ones we used to get. I've includedsome excerpts below. I find them helpful - you may too.And now I am going to spend some time listening to a list with1,508 members. Even on days when a list like this is silent it is saying something.- RandyEXCERPTS FROM ACT PROFESSIONAL LIST GUIDELINES:All of these lists have a culture of openness, respect, andself-criticism. This is not a good place to show off, to agree justbecause some so-called big-wig said so, or to play gotcha. We don'tdo "flame wars" on this list: try to put "being right and lookinggood" at the door. Negative personal comments of all kinds areabsolutely unwelcome (watch your adjectives! That is especiallytrue when responding to a post from someone else that is criticalof something you said or something you believe in).Give more than you get and try to help others. Please don't hog thelist and if you get feedback (back channel or openly on the list)that the list is tired of an issue, please let it go. This list isnot a place to grind an axe. If you see someone going south on thelist, you might try a kind and cautious back channel post.Take personal responsibility for the list. It is here for us alland we need to work together to keep it going in the rightdirection.Also think what would happen if everyone posted multiple times aday. It would immediately overwhelm us ... so be moderate in yourpost. If you are going beyond once a day (max.) look long and hardand see what is going on. Are you just drawing attention toyourself or is this helpful to others? If it is, go for it. If not,maybe it is time to play with the dog more. Conversely, if younever post -- perhaps fearing you "have nothing to say" -- see ifthis is what you want to be about.Have fun!

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What if the group moderators are indeed a pair of sandals................................................ rather than army boots ?

It doesn't have to be a choice between anarchy and fascism!

S.

Subject: ACT list guidelines (borrowed) and a Groucho Marx quote (ditto)To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 8:23

I looked up the old Groucho quote and it goes like this:"I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. IDON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.'"So why are we here on this list?Not to vote on whether someone "gets to stay" or "has to leave."Even the most kindly meant vote for "yes" is missing the point.We're here to share what we're learning about ACT. We're here tosupport each other in doing so. To practice compassion the way weare learning to practice self-compassion.The moment we feel harshly judgmental of someone else on the list?The moment we are 100 percent sure we are right and someone else isnot only wrong but doing bad things on purpose?That's a great moment to practice ACT. Not to be "good" or "nice" -but because we are learning to care for ourselves.A list like this is an odd social environment because you never

getto see who you're talking to. As with email, it is easy tomisinterpret. It is hard even to know who is listening. Hard toknow if you are being heard, or who it is that is hearing you. Orwhat you sound like to them.Misunderstandings and high emotions are not the problem. Conflictis not the problem. Conflict can be creative if people make itclear they care about each other.If a problem really seems out of hand we can backchannel (i.e.email) a moderator. But the first place to look is ourselves and atthe opportunity we have been given to learn something.The list as a social environment is much bigger than we might thinkit is. How big? Our home page on Yahoo tells me just now that wehave 1,508 members. We're nearly as big as the ACT list forprofessionals, which has 1,667 members.A conversation with 1,508 members can use a few guidelines. Theprofessional list sends out such

guidelines each month to itsmembers. This list once did too. In fact the professionalguidelines look a lot like the ones we used to get. I've includedsome excerpts below. I find them helpful - you may too.And now I am going to spend some time listening to a list with1,508 members. Even on days when a list like this is silent it is saying something.- RandyEXCERPTS FROM ACT PROFESSIONAL LIST GUIDELINES:All of these lists have a culture of openness, respect, andself-criticism. This is not a good place to show off, to agree justbecause some so-called big-wig said so, or to play gotcha. We don'tdo "flame wars" on this list: try to put "being right and lookinggood" at the door. Negative personal comments of all kinds areabsolutely unwelcome (watch your adjectives! That is especiallytrue when responding to a post from someone else that is criticalof something you said or something

you believe in).Give more than you get and try to help others. Please don't hog thelist and if you get feedback (back channel or openly on the list)that the list is tired of an issue, please let it go. This list isnot a place to grind an axe. If you see someone going south on thelist, you might try a kind and cautious back channel post.Take personal responsibility for the list. It is here for us alland we need to work together to keep it going in the rightdirection.Also think what would happen if everyone posted multiple times aday. It would immediately overwhelm us ... so be moderate in yourpost. If you are going beyond once a day (max.) look long and hardand see what is going on. Are you just drawing attention toyourself or is this helpful to others? If it is, go for it. If not,maybe it is time to play with the dog more. Conversely, if younever post -- perhaps fearing you "have

nothing to say" -- see ifthis is what you want to be about.Have fun!

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I have just been doing some great mindful meditation and I read what you said with such appreciation. We do have to take things as we find them, not how we would like them to be or how we think they should be. Thank you for sharing XXX ______________________Signature: Mrs Em Equanimity This is my personal blog where I record my experience applying Acceptance Commitment Therapy to my anxiety and agoraphobia in particular, and my life in general. Feel free to browse. http://eyeofthehurricane-act.blogspot.com/--- El vie, 11/3/11, Jim escribió:De: Jim Asunto: Re: ACT list guidelines (borrowed) and a Groucho Marx quote (ditto)Para: ACT_for_the_Public CC: " Stone" Fecha: viernes, 11 de marzo, 2011 22:31

, you've hit the nail on the head.In Tibet, they have a saying, "if the ground hurts your bare feet, can you cover the earth with leather so it's soft wherever you go? Or do you put on a pair of sandals?"

ACT seems to be about taking the world as you find it, not demanding that people, places and things which disturb us either follow rules to make us more comfortable or else go away. Certainly the larger world, which we're all presumably trying to be more vitally involved in, doesn't honor our sensibilities that way.

Jim

Just one thought on why the moderators are not a big presence in a group about utilizing ACT skills: in ACT one of the biggest lessons (at least for me) is "control is frequently the problem". Having moderators exert control over the ups and downs and normal processing of the group is not really consistent with the idea that the world operates as it does and our best shot at having peace is to learn to roll with it. OK, that is certainly my own take on some of the ACT stuff but it seems to work for me when I can accomplish it. :)

Soozy, I think you're right - the moderators should be listed on the group home page in Yahoo. It's not like their identities are supposed to be a secret! I also think it would be a good idea to have that monthly automated message go out, "Welcome to the list," as it used to.

Maybe if the moderators are eavesdropping, they could think about these suggestions ...- R.

Hi Randy,

Good points!

Just one thought re. e-mailing moderators. I bet many people especially new members do not know how to do this or even who the moderators are and it's the only Yahoo group I've ever belonged to where the members' list which includes e-mail addresses for moderators is not visible. I guess there is an ACT reason for this though I'm not sure what it is? Maybe there's an argument for including their names on the homepage, maybe not?

On the other hand I've noticed that the Links section of the group website,which I presume anyone who joins this list can add links to, has a link I could do without:

The Best Herbal Remedies I've ever used at Mom & Pop Prices

Soozy

Subject: ACT list guidelines (borrowed) and a Groucho Marx quote (ditto)

To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 8:23

I looked up the old Groucho quote and it goes like this:"I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. IDON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.'"

So why are we here on this list?Not to vote on whether someone "gets to stay" or "has to leave."Even the most kindly meant vote for "yes" is missing the point.We're here to share what we're learning about ACT. We're here to

support each other in doing so. To practice compassion the way weare learning to practice self-compassion.The moment we feel harshly judgmental of someone else on the list?The moment we are 100 percent sure we are right and someone else is

not only wrong but doing bad things on purpose?That's a great moment to practice ACT. Not to be "good" or "nice" -but because we are learning to care for ourselves.A list like this is an odd social environment because you never

getto see who you're talking to. As with email, it is easy tomisinterpret. It is hard even to know who is listening. Hard toknow if you are being heard, or who it is that is hearing you. Orwhat you sound like to them.

Misunderstandings and high emotions are not the problem. Conflictis not the problem. Conflict can be creative if people make itclear they care about each other.If a problem really seems out of hand we can backchannel (i.e.

email) a moderator. But the first place to look is ourselves and atthe opportunity we have been given to learn something.The list as a social environment is much bigger than we might thinkit is. How big? Our home page on Yahoo tells me just now that we

have 1,508 members. We're nearly as big as the ACT list forprofessionals, which has 1,667 members.A conversation with 1,508 members can use a few guidelines. Theprofessional list sends out such

guidelines each month to itsmembers. This list once did too. In fact the professionalguidelines look a lot like the ones we used to get. I've includedsome excerpts below. I find them helpful - you may too.

And now I am going to spend some time listening to a list with1,508 members. Even on days when a list like this is silent it is saying something.- RandyEXCERPTS FROM ACT PROFESSIONAL LIST GUIDELINES:

All of these lists have a culture of openness, respect, andself-criticism. This is not a good place to show off, to agree justbecause some so-called big-wig said so, or to play gotcha. We don'tdo "flame wars" on this list: try to put "being right and looking

good" at the door. Negative personal comments of all kinds areabsolutely unwelcome (watch your adjectives! That is especiallytrue when responding to a post from someone else that is criticalof something you said or something

you believe in).Give more than you get and try to help others. Please don't hog thelist and if you get feedback (back channel or openly on the list)that the list is tired of an issue, please let it go. This list is

not a place to grind an axe. If you see someone going south on thelist, you might try a kind and cautious back channel post.Take personal responsibility for the list. It is here for us alland we need to work together to keep it going in the right

direction.Also think what would happen if everyone posted multiple times aday. It would immediately overwhelm us ... so be moderate in yourpost. If you are going beyond once a day (max.) look long and hard

and see what is going on. Are you just drawing attention toyourself or is this helpful to others? If it is, go for it. If not,maybe it is time to play with the dog more. Conversely, if younever post -- perhaps fearing you "have

nothing to say" -- see ifthis is what you want to be about.Have fun!

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I think the Tibetans might view any appeal to an outside force as asking someone else to cover the earth with leather on your behalf. Outside interventions are appropriate in some cases but in my opinion, this isn't one of those cases.

Thanks,Jim 

 

What if the group moderators are indeed a pair of sandals................................................ rather than army boots ?

 

It doesn't have to be a choice between anarchy and fascism! 

 

S.

Subject: ACT list guidelines (borrowed) and a Groucho Marx quote (ditto)To: ACT_for_the_Public

Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 8:23

 

I looked up the old Groucho quote and it goes like this: " I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. IDON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.' "

So why are we here on this list?Not to vote on whether someone " gets to stay " or " has to leave. " Even the most kindly meant vote for " yes " is missing the point.We're here to share what we're learning about ACT. We're here to

support each other in doing so. To practice compassion the way weare learning to practice self-compassion.The moment we feel harshly judgmental of someone else on the list?The moment we are 100 percent sure we are right and someone else is

not only wrong but doing bad things on purpose?That's a great moment to practice ACT. Not to be " good " or " nice " -but because we are learning to care for ourselves.A list like this is an odd social environment because you never

getto see who you're talking to. As with email, it is easy tomisinterpret. It is hard even to know who is listening. Hard toknow if you are being heard, or who it is that is hearing you. Orwhat you sound like to them.

Misunderstandings and high emotions are not the problem. Conflictis not the problem. Conflict can be creative if people make itclear they care about each other.If a problem really seems out of hand we can backchannel (i.e.

email) a moderator. But the first place to look is ourselves and atthe opportunity we have been given to learn something.The list as a social environment is much bigger than we might thinkit is. How big? Our home page on Yahoo tells me just now that we

have 1,508 members. We're nearly as big as the ACT list forprofessionals, which has 1,667 members.A conversation with 1,508 members can use a few guidelines. Theprofessional list sends out such

guidelines each month to itsmembers. This list once did too. In fact the professionalguidelines look a lot like the ones we used to get. I've includedsome excerpts below. I find them helpful - you may too.

And now I am going to spend some time listening to a list with1,508 members. Even on days when a list like this is silent it is saying something.- RandyEXCERPTS FROM ACT PROFESSIONAL LIST GUIDELINES:

All of these lists have a culture of openness, respect, andself-criticism. This is not a good place to show off, to agree justbecause some so-called big-wig said so, or to play gotcha. We don'tdo " flame wars " on this list: try to put " being right and looking

good " at the door. Negative personal comments of all kinds areabsolutely unwelcome (watch your adjectives! That is especiallytrue when responding to a post from someone else that is criticalof something you said or something

you believe in).Give more than you get and try to help others. Please don't hog thelist and if you get feedback (back channel or openly on the list)that the list is tired of an issue, please let it go. This list is

not a place to grind an axe. If you see someone going south on thelist, you might try a kind and cautious back channel post.Take personal responsibility for the list. It is here for us alland we need to work together to keep it going in the right

direction.Also think what would happen if everyone posted multiple times aday. It would immediately overwhelm us ... so be moderate in yourpost. If you are going beyond once a day (max.) look long and hard

and see what is going on. Are you just drawing attention toyourself or is this helpful to others? If it is, go for it. If not,maybe it is time to play with the dog more. Conversely, if younever post -- perhaps fearing you " have

nothing to say " -- see ifthis is what you want to be about.Have fun!

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Sandals to some persons are army boots to another ...

ACT list guidelines (borrowed) and a Groucho Marx quote (ditto)To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 8:23

I looked up the old Groucho quote and it goes like this:"I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. IDON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.'"So why are we here on this list?Not to vote on whether someone "gets to stay" or "has to leave."Even the most kindly meant vote for "yes" is missing the point.We're here to share what we're learning about ACT. We're here tosupport each other in doing so. To practice compassion the way weare learning to practice self-compassion.The moment we feel harshly judgmental of someone else on the list?The moment we are 100 percent sure we are right and someone else isnot only wrong but doing bad things on purpose?That's a great moment to practice ACT. Not to be "good" or "nice" -but because we are learning to care for ourselves.A list like this is an odd social environment because you never getto see who you're talking to. As with email, it is easy tomisinterpret. It is hard even to know who is listening. Hard toknow if you are being heard, or who it is that is hearing you. Orwhat you sound like to them.Misunderstandings and high emotions are not the problem. Conflictis not the problem. Conflict can be creative if people make itclear they care about each other.If a problem really seems out of hand we can backchannel (i.e.email) a moderator. But the first place to look is ourselves and atthe opportunity we have been given to learn something.The list as a social environment is much bigger than we might thinkit is. How big? Our home page on Yahoo tells me just now that wehave 1,508 members. We're nearly as big as the ACT list forprofessionals, which has 1,667 members.A conversation with 1,508 members can use a few guidelines. Theprofessional list sends out such guidelines each month to itsmembers. This list once did too. In fact the professionalguidelines look a lot like the ones we used to get. I've includedsome excerpts below. I find them helpful - you may too.And now I am going to spend some time listening to a list with1,508 members. Even on days when a list like this is silent it is saying something.- RandyEXCERPTS FROM ACT PROFESSIONAL LIST GUIDELINES:All of these lists have a culture of openness, respect, andself-criticism. This is not a good place to show off, to agree justbecause some so-called big-wig said so, or to play gotcha. We don'tdo "flame wars" on this list: try to put "being right and lookinggood" at the door. Negative personal comments of all kinds areabsolutely unwelcome (watch your adjectives! That is especiallytrue when responding to a post from someone else that is criticalof something you said or something you believe in).Give more than you get and try to help others. Please don't hog thelist and if you get feedback (back channel or openly on the list)that the list is tired of an issue, please let it go. This list isnot a place to grind an axe. If you see someone going south on thelist, you might try a kind and cautious back channel post.Take personal responsibility for the list. It is here for us alland we need to work together to keep it going in the rightdirection.Also think what would happen if everyone posted multiple times aday. It would immediately overwhelm us ... so be moderate in yourpost. If you are going beyond once a day (max.) look long and hardand see what is going on. Are you just drawing attention toyourself or is this helpful to others? If it is, go for it. If not,maybe it is time to play with the dog more. Conversely, if younever post -- perhaps fearing you "have nothing to say" -- see ifthis is what you want to be about.Have fun!

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From: Randy

Subject: ACT list guidelines (borrowed) and a Groucho Marx quote (ditto)To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 8:23 I looked up the old Groucho quote and it goes like this:"I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. IDON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.'"So why are we here on this list?Not to vote on whether someone "gets to stay" or "has to leave."Even the most kindly meant vote for "yes" is missing the point.We're here to share what we're learning about ACT. We're here tosupport each other in doing so. To practice compassion the way weare learning to practice self-compassion.The moment we feel harshly judgmental of someone else on the list?The moment we are 100 percent sure we are right and someone else isnot only wrong

but doing bad things on purpose?That's a great moment to practice ACT. Not to be "good" or "nice" -but because we are learning to care for ourselves.A list like this is an odd social environment because you never getto see who you're talking to. As with email, it is easy tomisinterpret. It is hard even to know who is listening. Hard toknow if you are being heard, or who it is that is hearing you. Orwhat you sound like to them.Misunderstandings and high emotions are not the problem. Conflictis not the problem. Conflict can be creative if people make itclear they care about each other.If a problem really seems out of hand we can backchannel (i.e.email) a moderator. But the first place to look is ourselves and atthe opportunity we have been given to learn something.The list as a social environment is much bigger than we might thinkit is. How big? Our home page on Yahoo tells me

just now that wehave 1,508 members. We're nearly as big as the ACT list forprofessionals, which has 1,667 members.A conversation with 1,508 members can use a few guidelines. Theprofessional list sends out such guidelines each month to itsmembers. This list once did too. In fact the professionalguidelines look a lot like the ones we used to get. I've includedsome excerpts below. I find them helpful - you may too.And now I am going to spend some time listening to a list with1,508 members. Even on days when a list like this is silent it is saying something.- RandyEXCERPTS FROM ACT PROFESSIONAL LIST GUIDELINES:All of these lists have a culture of openness, respect, andself-criticism. This is not a good place to show off, to agree justbecause some so-called big-wig said so, or to play gotcha. We don'tdo "flame wars" on this list: try to put "being right and lookinggood"

at the door. Negative personal comments of all kinds areabsolutely unwelcome (watch your adjectives! That is especiallytrue when responding to a post from someone else that is criticalof something you said or something you believe in).Give more than you get and try to help others. Please don't hog thelist and if you get feedback (back channel or openly on the list)that the list is tired of an issue, please let it go. This list isnot a place to grind an axe. If you see someone going south on thelist, you might try a kind and cautious back channel post.Take personal responsibility for the list. It is here for us alland we need to work together to keep it going in the rightdirection.Also think what would happen if everyone posted multiple times aday. It would immediately overwhelm us ... so be moderate in yourpost. If you are going beyond once a day (max.) look long and hardand see

what is going on. Are you just drawing attention toyourself or is this helpful to others? If it is, go for it. If not,maybe it is time to play with the dog more. Conversely, if younever post -- perhaps fearing you "have nothing to say" -- see ifthis is what you want to be about.Have fun!--

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I'm pretty sure the moderators would not mind being listed -- just an oversight I presumeI did go in and look at the monthly orientation email. It's not quite as elaborate as the one onthe professional list -- but the moderators' names are in there as are most of the

basic points Randy posted. The check box says it should go out once a month ....let's all watch to see if that happens in April. Can recall seeing it last month (I did on the professional list)I've read nearly every post on this list since its beginning. I think the reason tight moderation

does not quite fit the culture of the list is that we are a community and no one on this list is broken.We are muddling thru together as whole human beings -- each of us with our sufferingand struggles -- trying together to apply a set of processes to living.

Yeah people get cross wise sometimes ... post too much; get judgmental; get mad / sad / depressed / etc.; how their a**.Of course.And if you sit on the list for a while you see -- 9 times out of 10 something really cool

happens over time even soWe are a community and no one on this list is broken.WE need to work it out as individuals and a community. (and, sure, there are moderators)- S

C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062 " Love isn't everything, it's the only thing " hayes@... or stevenchayes@...

Fax: Psych Department: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be): Blogs: Psychology Today  http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mind

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http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes

or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.comIf you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar.

If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join

orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., " Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life " etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join

 

From: Randy

Subject: ACT list guidelines (borrowed) and a Groucho Marx quote (ditto)To: ACT_for_the_Public

Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 8:23  I looked up the old Groucho quote and it goes like this: " I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. IDON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.' "

So why are we here on this list?Not to vote on whether someone " gets to stay " or " has to leave. " Even the most kindly meant vote for " yes " is missing the point.We're here to share what we're learning about ACT. We're here to

support each other in doing so. To practice compassion the way weare learning to practice self-compassion.The moment we feel harshly judgmental of someone else on the list?The moment we are 100 percent sure we are right and someone else is

not only wrong

but doing bad things on purpose?That's a great moment to practice ACT. Not to be " good " or " nice " -but because we are learning to care for ourselves.A list like this is an odd social environment because you never get

to see who you're talking to. As with email, it is easy tomisinterpret. It is hard even to know who is listening. Hard toknow if you are being heard, or who it is that is hearing you. Orwhat you sound like to them.

Misunderstandings and high emotions are not the problem. Conflictis not the problem. Conflict can be creative if people make itclear they care about each other.If a problem really seems out of hand we can backchannel (i.e.

email) a moderator. But the first place to look is ourselves and atthe opportunity we have been given to learn something.The list as a social environment is much bigger than we might thinkit is. How big? Our home page on Yahoo tells me

just now that wehave 1,508 members. We're nearly as big as the ACT list forprofessionals, which has 1,667 members.A conversation with 1,508 members can use a few guidelines. Theprofessional list sends out such guidelines each month to its

members. This list once did too. In fact the professionalguidelines look a lot like the ones we used to get. I've includedsome excerpts below. I find them helpful - you may too.And now I am going to spend some time listening to a list with

1,508 members. Even on days when a list like this is silent it is saying something.- RandyEXCERPTS FROM ACT PROFESSIONAL LIST GUIDELINES:All of these lists have a culture of openness, respect, and

self-criticism. This is not a good place to show off, to agree justbecause some so-called big-wig said so, or to play gotcha. We don'tdo " flame wars " on this list: try to put " being right and looking

good "

at the door. Negative personal comments of all kinds areabsolutely unwelcome (watch your adjectives! That is especiallytrue when responding to a post from someone else that is criticalof something you said or something you believe in).

Give more than you get and try to help others. Please don't hog thelist and if you get feedback (back channel or openly on the list)that the list is tired of an issue, please let it go. This list isnot a place to grind an axe. If you see someone going south on the

list, you might try a kind and cautious back channel post.Take personal responsibility for the list. It is here for us alland we need to work together to keep it going in the rightdirection.Also think what would happen if everyone posted multiple times a

day. It would immediately overwhelm us ... so be moderate in yourpost. If you are going beyond once a day (max.) look long and hardand see

what is going on. Are you just drawing attention toyourself or is this helpful to others? If it is, go for it. If not,maybe it is time to play with the dog more. Conversely, if younever post -- perhaps fearing you " have nothing to say " -- see if

this is what you want to be about.Have fun!--

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Something really cool happens, yeah.

Unless you are the target

ACT list guidelines (borrowed) and a Groucho Marx quote (ditto)To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 8:23 I looked up the old Groucho quote and it goes like this:"I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. IDON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.'"So why are we here on this list?Not to vote on whether someone "gets to stay" or "has to leave."Even the most kindly meant vote for "yes" is missing the point.We're here to share what we're learning about ACT. We're here tosupport each other in doing so. To practice compassion the way weare learning to practice self-compassion.The moment we feel harshly judgmental of someone else on the list?The moment we are 100 percent sure we are right and someone else isnot only wrong but doing bad things on purpose?That's a great moment to practice ACT. Not to be "good" or "nice" -but because we are learning to care for ourselves.A list like this is an odd social environment because you never getto see who you're talking to. As with email, it is easy tomisinterpret. It is hard even to know who is listening. Hard toknow if you are being heard, or who it is that is hearing you. Orwhat you sound like to them.Misunderstandings and high emotions are not the problem. Conflictis not the problem. Conflict can be creative if people make itclear they care about each other.If a problem really seems out of hand we can backchannel (i.e.email) a moderator. But the first place to look is ourselves and atthe opportunity we have been given to learn something.The list as a social environment is much bigger than we might thinkit is. How big? Our home page on Yahoo tells me just now that wehave 1,508 members. We're nearly as big as the ACT list forprofessionals, which has 1,667 members.A conversation with 1,508 members can use a few guidelines. Theprofessional list sends out such guidelines each month to itsmembers. This list once did too. In fact the professionalguidelines look a lot like the ones we used to get. I've includedsome excerpts below. I find them helpful - you may too.And now I am going to spend some time listening to a list with1,508 members. Even on days when a list like this is silent it is saying something.- RandyEXCERPTS FROM ACT PROFESSIONAL LIST GUIDELINES:All of these lists have a culture of openness, respect, andself-criticism. This is not a good place to show off, to agree justbecause some so-called big-wig said so, or to play gotcha. We don'tdo "flame wars" on this list: try to put "being right and lookinggood" at the door. Negative personal comments of all kinds areabsolutely unwelcome (watch your adjectives! That is especiallytrue when responding to a post from someone else that is criticalof something you said or something you believe in).Give more than you get and try to help others. Please don't hog thelist and if you get feedback (back channel or openly on the list)that the list is tired of an issue, please let it go. This list isnot a place to grind an axe. If you see someone going south on thelist, you might try a kind and cautious back channel post.Take personal responsibility for the list. It is here for us alland we need to work together to keep it going in the rightdirection.Also think what would happen if everyone posted multiple times aday. It would immediately overwhelm us ... so be moderate in yourpost. If you are going beyond once a day (max.) look long and hardand see what is going on. Are you just drawing attention toyourself or is this helpful to others? If it is, go for it. If not,maybe it is time to play with the dog more. Conversely, if younever post -- perhaps fearing you "have nothing to say" -- see ifthis is what you want to be about.Have fun!--

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Targeted. Targeting.There are a gazillion advice list out there; a gazillion social lists; a gazillion support lists. Does the world need a gazillion + one?What would happen if we did the work? Maybe nothing.

But what would happen?If we do we have a reason to keep eyes wide.- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062

" Love isn't everything, it's the only thing " hayes@... or stevenchayes@...

Fax: Psych Department: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be): Blogs: Psychology Today  http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mind

Huffington Post  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phdIf you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: 

http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes

or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.comIf you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar.

If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join

orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., " Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life " etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join

 

Something really cool happens, yeah.

 

Unless you are the target

 

ACT list guidelines (borrowed) and a Groucho Marx quote (ditto)To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 8:23

  I looked up the old Groucho quote and it goes like this: " I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. IDON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.' "

So why are we here on this list?Not to vote on whether someone " gets to stay " or " has to leave. " Even the most kindly meant vote for " yes " is missing the point.We're here to share what we're learning about ACT. We're here to

support each other in doing so. To practice compassion the way weare learning to practice self-compassion.The moment we feel harshly judgmental of someone else on the list?The moment we are 100 percent sure we are right and someone else is

not only wrong but doing bad things on purpose?That's a great moment to practice ACT. Not to be " good " or " nice " -but because we are learning to care for ourselves.A list like this is an odd social environment because you never get

to see who you're talking to. As with email, it is easy tomisinterpret. It is hard even to know who is listening. Hard toknow if you are being heard, or who it is that is hearing you. Orwhat you sound like to them.

Misunderstandings and high emotions are not the problem. Conflictis not the problem. Conflict can be creative if people make itclear they care about each other.If a problem really seems out of hand we can backchannel (i.e.

email) a moderator. But the first place to look is ourselves and atthe opportunity we have been given to learn something.The list as a social environment is much bigger than we might thinkit is. How big? Our home page on Yahoo tells me just now that we

have 1,508 members. We're nearly as big as the ACT list forprofessionals, which has 1,667 members.A conversation with 1,508 members can use a few guidelines. Theprofessional list sends out such guidelines each month to its

members. This list once did too. In fact the professionalguidelines look a lot like the ones we used to get. I've includedsome excerpts below. I find them helpful - you may too.And now I am going to spend some time listening to a list with

1,508 members. Even on days when a list like this is silent it is saying something.- RandyEXCERPTS FROM ACT PROFESSIONAL LIST GUIDELINES:All of these lists have a culture of openness, respect, and

self-criticism. This is not a good place to show off, to agree justbecause some so-called big-wig said so, or to play gotcha. We don'tdo " flame wars " on this list: try to put " being right and looking

good " at the door. Negative personal comments of all kinds areabsolutely unwelcome (watch your adjectives! That is especiallytrue when responding to a post from someone else that is criticalof something you said or something you believe in).

Give more than you get and try to help others. Please don't hog thelist and if you get feedback (back channel or openly on the list)that the list is tired of an issue, please let it go. This list isnot a place to grind an axe. If you see someone going south on the

list, you might try a kind and cautious back channel post.Take personal responsibility for the list. It is here for us alland we need to work together to keep it going in the rightdirection.Also think what would happen if everyone posted multiple times a

day. It would immediately overwhelm us ... so be moderate in yourpost. If you are going beyond once a day (max.) look long and hardand see what is going on. Are you just drawing attention toyourself or is this helpful to others? If it is, go for it. If not,

maybe it is time to play with the dog more. Conversely, if younever post -- perhaps fearing you " have nothing to say " -- see ifthis is what you want to be about.Have fun!

--

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Thanks, ! Actually knowing who the moderators are helps make it feel more like a community. My intention was never to suggest that they should be intervening to sort out my messes;-)

I was reminded of the fact that there is a massive mast with a CCTV camera at the end of my street. I believe the UK has more cameras than anywhere else in the world per square mile!

Occasionally those cameras point at me and my husband sitting on our tiny balcony enjoying the sunshine. When it does I give a friendly wave.

I think that being observed by police I don't know is a bit creepy all the same.

On the other hand sometimes our community police walk along our street and stop and say hello and ask how things are, if there are any problems etc.. and that really helps our community feel, well, as if it is able to share with people on our side who all have the same human problems and desire to get on as we do.

My husband and I regularly feed the wildfowl at our local nature reserve and pay special attention to the injured and ones with disabilities, lame ducks etc.. We noticed one had got caught up in some detritus and apparently couldn't open its beak so e-mailed the council as we didn't know how to deal with it. We got an immediate response from the warden who started off by saying "I hear you have made a complaint!!!" We reassured her we hadn't and she reassured us that the duck was OK and attempts to save it had so far failed as it was a very stubborn duck!

Anyway to cut a long story short I now have that warden's phone number with me so can report vandalism (it is very sad that swans have been butchered there in the past!) and most importantly the warden and my husband and I now feel more part of the community as a result of being able to communicate with people we know a wee bit better. It also became clear that the warden felt somewhat isolated in her work and appreciated contact with people as well as her flock of geese!

Best wishes to all,

SoozySubject: ACT list guidelines (borrowed) and a Groucho Marx quote (ditto)To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 8:23 I looked up the old Groucho quote and it goes like this:"I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. IDON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.'"So why are we here on this list?Not to vote on whether someone "gets to stay" or "has to leave."Even the most kindly meant vote for "yes" is missing the point.We're here to share what we're learning about ACT. We're here tosupport each other in doing so. To practice compassion the way weare learning to practice self-compassion.The moment we feel harshly judgmental of someone else on the list?The moment we are 100 percent sure we are right and someone else isnot only wrong but doing bad things on purpose?That's a great moment to practice ACT. Not

to be "good" or "nice" -but because we are learning to care for ourselves.A list like this is an odd social environment because you never getto see who you're talking to. As with email, it is easy tomisinterpret. It is hard even to know who is listening. Hard toknow if you are being heard, or who it is that is hearing you. Orwhat you sound like to them.Misunderstandings and high emotions are not the problem. Conflictis not the problem. Conflict can be creative if people make itclear they care about each other.If a problem really seems out of hand we can backchannel (i.e.email) a moderator. But the first place to look is ourselves and atthe opportunity we have been given to learn something.The list as a social environment is much bigger than we might thinkit is. How big? Our home page on Yahoo tells me just now that wehave 1,508 members. We're nearly as big as the ACT list

forprofessionals, which has 1,667 members.A conversation with 1,508 members can use a few guidelines. Theprofessional list sends out such guidelines each month to itsmembers. This list once did too. In fact the professionalguidelines look a lot like the ones we used to get. I've includedsome excerpts below. I find them helpful - you may too.And now I am going to spend some time listening to a list with1,508 members. Even on days when a list like this is silent it is saying something.- RandyEXCERPTS FROM ACT PROFESSIONAL LIST GUIDELINES:All of these lists have a culture of openness, respect, andself-criticism. This is not a good place to show off, to agree justbecause some so-called big-wig said so, or to play gotcha. We don'tdo "flame wars" on this list: try to put "being right and lookinggood" at the door. Negative personal comments of all kinds areabsolutely

unwelcome (watch your adjectives! That is especiallytrue when responding to a post from someone else that is criticalof something you said or something you believe in).Give more than you get and try to help others. Please don't hog thelist and if you get feedback (back channel or openly on the list)that the list is tired of an issue, please let it go. This list isnot a place to grind an axe. If you see someone going south on thelist, you might try a kind and cautious back channel post.Take personal responsibility for the list. It is here for us alland we need to work together to keep it going in the rightdirection.Also think what would happen if everyone posted multiple times aday. It would immediately overwhelm us ... so be moderate in yourpost. If you are going beyond once a day (max.) look long and hardand see what is going on. Are you just drawing attention toyourself or is this

helpful to others? If it is, go for it. If not,maybe it is time to play with the dog more. Conversely, if younever post -- perhaps fearing you "have nothing to say" -- see ifthis is what you want to be about.Have fun!--

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Here is an excerpt from Steve when he introduced and me as moderators back

in December 2010:

" Originally I moderated both the professional and public list. The professional

list was gradually brought under the umbrella of the Association for Contextual

Behavioral Science (ACBS) -- the group that is trying to help develop ACT, RFT,

and related approaches. ACBS is also 5 years old and has about 3000 professional

members and for years now it has been moderated by a team selected by ACBS(right

now Joe Ciarrochi at the University of Wollongong is the moderator over there).

Now the time has come for the same thing to happen here.

The two new moderators are Oser and Sears.

Both are young doctoral level psychologists who do work in ACT.

received her doctorate from the University of Nevada, Reno in 2008. Since

then she has been working as a health services research fellow at the Center for

Health Care Evaluation at VA Palo Alto Health Care System and Stanford

University School of Medicine. She has been co-facilitating the ACT supervision

and training group with Robyn Walser, PhD at the National Center for PTSD.

has over 6 years of experience in the delivery and supervision of third wave

behavior therapies (ACT, FAP, and DBT). I've known for many years -- she's

super. She has a good heart and a good head.

C. () Sears received her doctorate from the University of Houston

in 2008 and completed both her internship and clinical postdoc in Behavioral

Medicine at the VA Palo Alto. is currently a Health Science Specialist at

the VA National Center for PTSD in Menlo Park, CA. There she has been a

consultant on clinical and research projects involving ACT and CBT for PTSD.

also works closely with Robyn Walser, Ph.D., on developing manuals

and other materials for the VA's ACT-for-Depression rollout (if you did not

know, the VA is spending a lot of money getting ACT into the VA centers around

the country -- a wonderful and very effective project). serves as a

coordinator and primary clinician on a multi-site ACT-for-PTSD pilot study.

also works closely with Joe Ruzek, Ph.D., on other dissemination and

training projects.

has published in the areas of assessment and training and is

developing her interest in best practices for training empirically supported

treatment components.

These are great young professionals. They will do a super job.

If you get a back channel post from them try to consider what they may

have to say -- it comes out of their caring for the work and for the people on

the list.

That is an honorable thing -- worthy of respect. That have my thanks

and I hope all of our thanks for doing the usually thankless job

of trying to steer with just a bump on the tiller and an occasional

hard pull as we as a group move this entirely virtual community forward toward

more fulfilling, meaningful and fully human lives

and -- would you care to say a few words to the group? "

- S

C.

Foundation Professor

Department of Psychology /298

University of Nevada

Reno, NV 89557-0062

Thought this would be helpful to re-post to give more information about myself

and as the moderators.

>

>

>

> Subject: ACT list guidelines (borrowed) and a Groucho

Marx quote (ditto)

> To: ACT_for_the_Public

> Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 8:23

>

>

>  

>

> I looked up the old Groucho quote and it goes like this:

>

> " I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I

> DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.' "

>

> So why are we here on this list?

>

> Not to vote on whether someone " gets to stay " or " has to leave. "

> Even the most kindly meant vote for " yes " is missing the point.

>

> We're here to share what we're learning about ACT. We're here to

> support each other in doing so. To practice compassion the way we

> are learning to practice self-compassion.

>

> The moment we feel harshly judgmental of someone else on the list?

> The moment we are 100 percent sure we are right and someone else is

> not only wrong but doing bad things on purpose?

>

> That's a great moment to practice ACT. Not to be " good " or " nice " -

> but because we are learning to care for ourselves.

>

> A list like this is an odd social environment because you never get

> to see who you're talking to. As with email, it is easy to

> misinterpret. It is hard even to know who is listening. Hard to

> know if you are being heard, or who it is that is hearing you. Or

> what you sound like to them.

>

> Misunderstandings and high emotions are not the problem. Conflict

> is not the problem. Conflict can be creative if people make it

> clear they care about each other.

>

> If a problem really seems out of hand we can backchannel (i.e.

> email) a moderator. But the first place to look is ourselves and at

> the opportunity we have been given to learn something.

>

> The list as a social environment is much bigger than we might think

> it is. How big? Our home page on Yahoo tells me just now that we

> have 1,508 members. We're nearly as big as the ACT list for

> professionals, which has 1,667 members.

>

> A conversation with 1,508 members can use a few guidelines. The

> professional list sends out such guidelines each month to its

> members. This list once did too. In fact the professional

> guidelines look a lot like the ones we used to get. I've included

> some excerpts below. I find them helpful - you may too.

>

> And now I am going to spend some time listening to a list with

> 1,508 members. Even on days when a list like this is silent it

> is saying something.

>

> - Randy

>

> EXCERPTS FROM ACT PROFESSIONAL LIST GUIDELINES:

>

> All of these lists have a culture of openness, respect, and

> self-criticism. This is not a good place to show off, to agree just

> because some so-called big-wig said so, or to play gotcha. We don't

> do " flame wars " on this list: try to put " being right and looking

> good " at the door. Negative personal comments of all kinds are

> absolutely unwelcome (watch your adjectives! That is especially

> true when responding to a post from someone else that is critical

> of something you said or something you believe in).

>

> Give more than you get and try to help others. Please don't hog the

> list and if you get feedback (back channel or openly on the list)

> that the list is tired of an issue, please let it go. This list is

> not a place to grind an axe. If you see someone going south on the

> list, you might try a kind and cautious back channel post.

>

> Take personal responsibility for the list. It is here for us all

> and we need to work together to keep it going in the right

> direction.

>

> Also think what would happen if everyone posted multiple times a

> day. It would immediately overwhelm us ... so be moderate in your

> post. If you are going beyond once a day (max.) look long and hard

> and see what is going on. Are you just drawing attention to

> yourself or is this helpful to others? If it is, go for it. If not,

> maybe it is time to play with the dog more. Conversely, if you

> never post -- perhaps fearing you " have nothing to say " -- see if

> this is what you want to be about.

>

> Have fun!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --

>

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