Re: female members

[Guest guest]

I am sure we can all debate sexual impotence on this list without resorting to four letter words or crudity. Sexual impotence affects not only the diagnosed man with PCa but also his wife or partner. I don't agree with Kathy about sex without penetration, I think it is a contradiction in terms to have sex without penetration, sex is penetration, well for most men at least it is the be all and end all of it. And to be quiet honest if I can't achieve penetration I don't want to know about the rest of it. That may sound very selfish, and I suppose it is. Men need erections to feel normal, I have tried to explain to my wife what it is like not to have natural erections. I compare it to women who have had a breast removed. Their husbands may tell them it makes no difference to the way he feels about her, but it makes a difference to the woman.

Running a support group I know only too well the impact impotence has on a man and his partner. It can decimate a relationship and leave a man feeling depressed beyond comprehension. I also know that not enough emphasis is placed on impotence by urologists when advising men on what treatment they should have and I know in my own experience that my urologist couldn't give a damn about 'side effects' such as impotence. As far as he is concerned he has done me a huge favour in removing my cancerous prostate. If I was tempted at all to use expletives it would be in reference to my urologist.

To answer , I don't think in this promiscuous society the majority of us on this list would be surprised by slang words or four letter words but I don't think it is necessary to have to use them. The only time I do swear is in the heat of the moment.

You say you are interested 'from a scientific point of view and from the

actual experiences of men.' Fine we will debate any aspect of it you like. We should debate these issues more than we do, but lets just keep it clean. If we want a little smut we can watch 'Desperate Housewives' which I think best describes my beloved wife :-)

[Guest guest]

this is a general group and this is no place for 4 letter words etc. My grandad said those who use swear words are not educated enough to be able to use alternatives. I am a man and I don't use them at all.

I know too that the effect of PCa is on the whole family and I know many people would be hurt by the fact that it only affects the man. In fact it is my experience that those who care are often affected more emotionally than the patient.

Maybe someone on this group knows of a group that allows this. I don't stop people talking about other good sources and groups so that people can widen their network.

Best wishes

[Guest guest]

My Dear Kathy,

I do in fact have some success with penile injections ( Viradol Duo ) but it will never be the same for me or my wife. It's not so much size ( I hope ) but it's spontaneity.

I shouldn't really complain because I know there are guys out there who are in a lot worse position than myself. A lot of men suffer in silence, that is why it is good for us to speak out about ED. This is why men must really do their homework before deciding on treatment.

I can't agree that all women don't need penetration, sex is so subjective that we can't generalise about that.

The added problem in this day and age is that we are constantly bombarded by adverts and programmes about sex. Everywhere we look we see it. We can't forget about it even if we want to. You are right I am grieving, I'm still madly in love with my beautiful wife and I miss my wonderful sex life with her.

There's a wonderful line in Frazier where Roz says to Frazier "Men use sex to get what they want" and Frazier replies "Sex is what we want"

I think it's a man thing that you chicks will never really understand :-)

LOL

Guess you agree that our former president "did not have sex with that woman". I understand you are grieving something that has been a part of your identity and is now gone. You can go on grieving for a very long time, maybe forever but you are hurting yourself and as you have said, apparently your wife too. Some people are never able to get over that grief. I pity you because happiness and pleasure is possible. I know I am not alone in experiencing that pleasure men and women share their stories with me on a regular basis.

Have you considered a penile implant? Have you tried a pump? Injections? Pills? It is important to exercise the muscle. It is important to keep the blood flowing. If you don't the muscle will atrophy and make recovery more difficult. Do you at least give your wife pleasure? Women do not need penetration. Her excitement may bring back some pleasure to you.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

I am not sure if there was a complaint but one thing I have learned is

that I can talk to anyone about anything sexual related to prostate

cancer. When I shared an office I shocked the new people in the office

when they heard my calls.

When dealing with prostate cancer sex and intimacy should be an open

topics. They are a reality. I have given many talks to women's groups,

men's groups and mixed group about intimacy and sexuality after PCa.

Women are sometimes uncomfortable talking about these issues but I have

also found that some men are also uncomfortable about talking about it.

Talking frankly with respect makes all groups feel more comfortable.

Using slang words in this type of conversation I have found shuts down

open communication and open communication from both women and men is

necessary. It takes the talk to a different and not very productive

level.

There are discussion groups that discuss sexuality and PCa frankly but

they do not allow the type of guy talk that you feel is necessary.

There is a great book on the subject, " Intimacy and Impotence " by Ralph

and Barbara Alterowitz.

Review:

Erectile dysfunction is a frequent consequence of prostate cancer and

other prostate disease treatments. Though unwelcome and embarrassing, it

doesn't have to end a couple's sex life. Both informative and practical,

Intimacy with Impotence gives couples cause for hope. It discusses

impotence in lay terms, provides information on the commercial therapies

and medications both available and being researched now, and gives

practical advice about lovemaking-from getting in the mood to

commonsense suggestions to erection-less satisfaction. Written with

complete honesty and compassion by a prostate cancer survivor and his

wife, this is the essential resource for couples trying to reestablish

intimacy and sex in the face of impotence.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0738207896/002-8122753-416

7231?v=glance

I feel that if you look only for mechanical solutions to your problem

you will continue to have difficulties. The major sexual organ that was

not impacted by your surgery is between your ears. Sex therapists will

tell you that you have to deal with both the physical difficulties as

well as the emotional issues that come up to recover your sexuality.

Just a few thoughts from a woman who has been there, done that. My

husband could not have an erection but we had a good sexual relationship

right up until he died. Shortly before he died he reached out and

caressed my bottom. It was a sexual interaction and I will never forget

it. He did not have the strength to talk but somehow found the strength

to communicate with me sexually. Good sex is about communication with

your body. What was once automatic now may have to be communicated in

different ways. It is about giving and getting pleasure. The last time

we were at the oncologist he asked the oncologist for Viagra. He wanted

it for me. He wanted to be sure I was satisfied. He died before we got

back to the oncologist for the prescription. I understand how important

an erect penis was for him but in fact we did a beautiful sexual dance

together without out it. I think he knew that too.

I hope I have not offended anyone.

Kathy

female members

It has come to my attention that there may be female members in this

group who feel that some of the remarks of some of the members,

well, I mean my remarks, have been offensive or insensitive. It is

my understanding that a female member or some female members may

have complained to the manager of this group about certain remarks.

I want to respond to that matter.

The first thing I want to say is that prostate cancer is first a

man's problem. If a man is married or has a close woman friend or

friends, i.e. lovers, paramours, etc., certainly they are involved

in the problem. Having prostate cancer can result in erectile

dysfunction or impotence. These problems can be very emotional for

men. I personally am interested in finding out everything I can

about these problems from a scientific point of view and from the

actual experiences of men. I am not bothered by slang and

expressions that some of the female members might consider to be

crude. Four letter words don't bother me. Sometimes I like to hear

those expressions, they are easier to relate to. Sometimes they are

amusing. There may be anecdotes that a man might like to relate to

other men who are experiencing some of the problems.

Apparently this discussion group is a place where men cannot talk

openly about certain topics for fear of offending the girls. So be

it. If anybody can direct me to a group where discussions can be

frank, I would appreciate someone telling me about it.

[Guest guest]

Guess you agree that our former president "did not have sex with that woman". I understand you are grieving something that has been a part of your identity and is now gone. You can go on grieving for a very long time, maybe forever but you are hurting yourself and as you have said, apparently your wife too. Some people are never able to get over that grief. I pity you because happiness and pleasure is possible. I know I am not alone in experiencing that pleasure men and women share their stories with me on a regular basis.

Have you considered a penile implant? Have you tried a pump? Injections? Pills? It is important to exercise the muscle. It is important to keep the blood flowing. If you don't the muscle will atrophy and make recovery more difficult. Do you at least give your wife pleasure? Women do not need penetration. Her excitement may bring back some pleasure to you.

Kathy

-----Original Message-----From: coolerking5@... Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 3:50 PMTo: ProstateCancerSupport Subject: Re: female membersI am sure we can all debate sexual impotence on this list without resorting to four letter words or crudity. Sexual impotence affects not only the diagnosed man with PCa but also his wife or partner. I don't agree with Kathy about sex without penetration, I think it is a contradiction in terms to have sex without penetration, sex is penetration, well for most men at least it is the be all and end all of it. And to be quiet honest if I can't achieve penetration I don't want to know about the rest of it. That may sound very selfish, and I suppose it is. Men need erections to feel normal, I have tried to explain to my wife what it is like not to have natural erections. I compare it to women who have had a breast removed. Their husbands may tell them it makes no difference to the way he feels about her, but it makes a difference to the woman. Running a support group I know only too well the impact impotence has on a man and his partner. It can decimate a relationship and leave a man feeling depressed beyond comprehension. I also know that not enough emphasis is placed on impotence by urologists when advising men on what treatment they should have and I know in my own experience that my urologist couldn't give a damn about 'side effects' such as impotence. As far as he is concerned he has done me a huge favour in removing my cancerous prostate. If I was tempted at all to use expletives it would be in reference to my urologist. To answer , I don't think in this promiscuous society the majority of us on this list would be surprised by slang words or four letter words but I don't think it is necessary to have to use them. The only time I do swear is in the heat of the moment.You say you are interested 'from a scientific point of view and from the actual experiences of men.' Fine we will debate any aspect of it you like. We should debate these issues more than we do, but lets just keep it clean. If we want a little smut we can watch 'Desperate Housewives' which I think best describes my beloved wife :-)