RE: The uninvited guest

March 19, 2011

Usually if guests feel entirely welcome they wander around and talk to other guests at least some.And usually if you are not trying to monitor a guest you do the same thing ... unless someone is terribly interesting.

Was she interesting?- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062 " Love isn't everything, it's the only thing "

hayes@... or stevenchayes@...Fax: Psych Department: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be):

Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mindHuffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phd

If you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes

http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.com

If you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar.

If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join

orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., " Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life " etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join

What do you do when you allow the unwanted aunt into the party but

then spend every moment of the party talking to her?

Bruce

March 20, 2011

Thanks for your reply, Steve. I guess she is fascinating. For the past two days, I have thought of my emotional issues virtually around the clock. I wake up with that subject springing immediately to mind. Even when I'm engaged in something, my emotional state is occupying at least half of my brain power.I literally can't recall what I used to think about before I became obsessed with the feeling of fear. I can't imagine what other people do with their minds all day. I wake up in the morning terrified of what my gut will do to me today. The hours stretch out before me and my fondest wish is to get to the evening where I'll feel better. I guess that's not welcoming anxiety. It's difficult for me to put anxiety aside and go on with my day, as anxiety is my day. The times when I feel better are when I am working on understanding myself.I understand that I need to get my thinking on something else. It's seems so hard to do, though I can in short stretches. I wish I could catch March Madness. It seems like other men fill their minds with sports fandom. I just can't bring myself to care.Thanks for listening,BruceUsually if guests feel entirely welcome they wander around and talk to other guests at least some.And usually if you are not trying to monitor a guest you do the same thing ... unless someone is terribly interesting. Was she interesting?- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062"Love isn't everything, it's the only thing" hayes@... or stevenchayes@...Fax: Psych Department: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be): Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mindHuffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phd If you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.com If you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar. If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., "Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life" etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join What do you do when you allow the unwanted aunt into the party but then spend every moment of the party talking to her? Bruce

March 20, 2011

Well read this and you can see where the so-called " fascination " comes from: " It's difficult for me to put anxiety aside and go on with my day, as anxiety is my day. The times when I feel better "

You are not fascinated. No way. Nothing in this post or those words sounds fascinated. It sounds oppressed.Be honest. This is friggin boring. Baba Ram Dass did a talk on anxiety some years ago in which we

said he could never let go of anxiety until he fulling contacted how boring it was.I remember that moment as a key in my life -- I stopped trying not to panicbecause I was fed up with sameness ... not because the heavens opened up.

This struggle is Predictable. Lifeless. Repetitive. Obsessive. Automatic. Programmed.Boooooorrring. So why spend so much time talking to a bore? Where else in your life would you do such a thing?Think about it. It does not happen everywhere

You are trying to solve the problem. Who controls that agenda? The guest? YOU bought the idea she was a problem that had to be solved. Withdraw the agreement. You are trying to negotiate.

Who gave her the right to decide what your life is about? You need permission to live? Who's life is this? You or your programming?You are bowing down to the " boss. " Who made her the boss?

You do not need to get your thinking on something else if the purpose is to live inside problem solving,negotiation, and being a slave to your history. Get your thinking on something else for the same reason you get up to have a soda,

or pee, or turn on the TV. Because there are things to do.Either that, or continue to be " fascinated. " But at least be so inside open awareness.See what is in your discussions with the guest.Maybe this is really worth your life moments. Maybe you have things still to learn.

It's OK. No one is keeping score. There is not speedometer on your head.Even watching boredom can be interesting if you keep your eyes wideBut when you have learned all you came to learn, smile and go talk to someone else.

Nuttin better to do. Might as well liveGood luck my friend. You are doing what we all do- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of Nevada

Reno, NV 89557-0062 " Love isn't everything, it's the only thing " hayes@... or stevenchayes@...

Fax: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be): Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mind

Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phdIf you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site:

http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes

or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.comIf you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar.

If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join

orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., " Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life " etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join

Thanks for your reply, Steve. I guess she is fascinating. For the past two days, I have thought of my emotional issues virtually around the clock. I wake up with that subject springing immediately to mind. Even when I'm engaged in something, my emotional state is occupying at least half of my brain power.

I literally can't recall what I used to think about before I became obsessed with the feeling of fear. I can't imagine what other people do with their minds all day. I wake up in the morning terrified of what my gut will do to me today. The hours stretch out before me and my fondest wish is to get to the evening where I'll feel better. I guess that's not welcoming anxiety. It's difficult for me to put anxiety aside and go on with my day, as anxiety is my day. The times when I feel better are when I am working on understanding myself.

I understand that I need to get my thinking on something else. It's seems so hard to do, though I can in short stretches. I wish I could catch March Madness. It seems like other men fill their minds with sports fandom. I just can't bring myself to care.

Thanks for listening,Bruce

Usually if guests feel entirely welcome they wander around and talk to other guests at least some.And usually if you are not trying to monitor a guest you do the same thing ... unless someone is terribly interesting.

Was she interesting?- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062 " Love isn't everything, it's the only thing "

hayes@... or stevenchayes@...Fax:

Psych Department: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be):

Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mindHuffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phd

If you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes

http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.com

If you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar.

If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join

orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., " Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life " etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join

What do you do when you allow the unwanted aunt into the party but then spend every moment of the party talking to her?

Bruce

March 20, 2011

If we can't control our thoughts (one of the basic premises of ACT), then how can Bruce, in this instance, stop thinking about his anxiety? KateGet your thinking on something else for the same reason you get up to have a soda,or pee, or turn on the TV. Because there are things to do.Either that, or continue to be "fascinated." But at least be so inside open awareness.See what is in your discussions with the guest.Maybe this is really worth your life moments. Maybe you have things still to learn.It's OK. No one is keeping score. There is not speedometer on your head.Even watching boredom can be interesting if you keep your eyes wideBut when you have learned all you came to learn, smile and go talk to someone else.

March 20, 2011

Hi Kate - I don't think Steve is suggesting to stop thinking about anxiety. Rather, I think he's saying look around - there's a life full of possibilities and things to look at and do, even if the history tags along. You can chose what you attend to and what you do with your mouth, hands, and feet. Anxiety showing up is not a choice. The choice is life - attending to something other than the boring reruns.Peace -j P. Forsyth, PhDSent from my iPhone If we can't control our thoughts (one of the basic premises of ACT), then how can Bruce, in this instance, stop thinking about his anxiety? KateGet your thinking on something else for the same reason you get up to have a soda,or pee, or turn on the TV. Because there are things to do.Either that, or continue to be "fascinated." But at least be so inside open awareness.See what is in your discussions with the guest.Maybe this is really worth your life moments. Maybe yo!u have things still to learn.It's OK. No one is keeping score. There is not speedometer on your head.Even watching boredom can be interesting if you keep your eyes wideBut when you have learned all you came to learn, smile and go talk to someone else.

March 20, 2011

I move ahead with my "hands and feet" towards my values (none of which involve getting rid of my anxiety.) My anxiety may not even recede but I will be living a valued life as best I can. If I just can't get moving I just sit on my hands" as says. It's not so much what I do as the intent with which I do it. My thinking self seems to know if it's for valued purposes or avoidance purposes. Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: catherine7250@...Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:36:27 +1100Subject: Re: The uninvited guest

If we can't control our thoughts (one of the basic premises of ACT), then how can Bruce, in this instance, stop thinking about his anxiety?

Kate

Get your thinking on something else for the same reason you get up to have a soda,or pee, or turn on the TV. Because there are things to do.Either that, or continue to be "fascinated." But at least be so inside open awareness.See what is in your discussions with the guest.Maybe this is really worth your life moments. Maybe you have things still to learn.It's OK. No one is keeping score. There is not speedometer on your head.Even watching boredom can be interesting if you keep your eyes wideBut when you have learned all you came to learn, smile and go talk to someone else.

March 20, 2011

Thanks so much for this, Steve. A lot to think about.This feeling is boring. I totally agree. I've been keeping a journal for over 3 years and the feelings I was dealing with 3 years ago are basically the same as now. It's pretty discouraging that I've progressed so little. I have changed a lot of my ideas, attitudes and habits. But my habit of being a hostage to the fear has not changed. It gets better occasionally and gets worse again. It's pretty bad right now.Thanks for the encouragement and ideas. I appreciate it.BruceWell read this and you can see where the so-called "fascination" comes from:"It's difficult for me to put anxiety aside and go on with my day, as anxiety is my day. The times when I feel better" You are not fascinated. No way. Nothing in this post or those words sounds fascinated. It sounds oppressed.Be honest. This is friggin boring. Baba Ram Dass did a talk on anxiety some years ago in which we said he could never let go of anxiety until he fulling contacted how boring it was.I remember that moment as a key in my life -- I stopped trying not to panicbecause I was fed up with sameness ... not because the heavens opened up. This struggle is Predictable. Lifeless. Repetitive. Obsessive. Automatic. Programmed.Boooooorrring. So why spend so much time talking to a bore? Where else in your life would you do such a thing?Think about it. It does not happen everywhere You are trying to solve the problem. Who controls that agenda? The guest? YOU bought the idea she was a problem that had to be solved. Withdraw the agreement. You are trying to negotiate. Who gave her the right to decide what your life is about? You need permission to live? Who's life is this? You or your programming?You are bowing down to the "boss." Who made her the boss? You do not need to get your thinking on something else if the purpose is to live inside problem solving,negotiation, and being a slave to your history. Get your thinking on something else for the same reason you get up to have a soda, or pee, or turn on the TV. Because there are things to do.Either that, or continue to be "fascinated." But at least be so inside open awareness.See what is in your discussions with the guest.Maybe this is really worth your life moments. Maybe you have things still to learn. It's OK. No one is keeping score. There is not speedometer on your head.Even watching boredom can be interesting if you keep your eyes wideBut when you have learned all you came to learn, smile and go talk to someone else. Nuttin better to do. Might as well liveGood luck my friend. You are doing what we all do- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of Nevada Reno, NV 89557-0062"Love isn't everything, it's the only thing"hayes@... or stevenchayes@... Fax: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be): Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mind Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phdIf you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.comIf you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar. If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., "Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life" etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join Thanks for your reply, Steve. I guess she is fascinating. For the past two days, I have thought of my emotional issues virtually around the clock. I wake up with that subject springing immediately to mind. Even when I'm engaged in something, my emotional state is occupying at least half of my brain power. I literally can't recall what I used to think about before I became obsessed with the feeling of fear. I can't imagine what other people do with their minds all day. I wake up in the morning terrified of what my gut will do to me today. The hours stretch out before me and my fondest wish is to get to the evening where I'll feel better. I guess that's not welcoming anxiety. It's difficult for me to put anxiety aside and go on with my day, as anxiety is my day. The times when I feel better are when I am working on understanding myself. I understand that I need to get my thinking on something else. It's seems so hard to do, though I can in short stretches. I wish I could catch March Madness. It seems like other men fill their minds with sports fandom. I just can't bring myself to care. Thanks for listening,Bruce Usually if guests feel entirely welcome they wander around and talk to other guests at least some.And usually if you are not trying to monitor a guest you do the same thing ... unless someone is terribly interesting. Was she interesting?- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062"Love isn't everything, it's the only thing" hayes@... or stevenchayes@...Fax: Psych Department: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be): Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mindHuffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phd If you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.com If you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar. If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., "Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life" etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join What do you do when you allow the unwanted aunt into the party but then spend every moment of the party talking to her? Bruce

March 20, 2011

With you, know where you are. I hear the longing and I see the crack there, with

these words.

Take it one deep breath at a time and allow YOU to hold your entire Self for one

moment with complete compassion. Cross your arms over your upper chest and hold

your precious being ever so lovingly and lightly.

Breath by breath,

Terry

> >>

> >> What do you do when you allow the unwanted aunt into the party but

> >> then spend every moment of the party talking to her?

> >>

> >> Bruce

> >>

> >

>

March 21, 2011

Hey Bruce,

I hope I don't muddy the waters after what Steve has said. I have

noticed something about the words you write that reminds me of

myself in certain situations, and also other people.

When we are stuck, whether stuck inside anxiety or depression or

what have you, we seem to be able to quite cooly and rationally

describe what our stuckness consists of. Would you agree this is

true for you as well?

So in this way we see ourselves as " outside " the problem, because

otherwise, how could we describe it so accurately? In fact, we tend

to say, we see the problem more clearly than anyone else. We are

looking at it. We know how it feels, hour to hour, moment to

moment. No one else has our life. We are the expert here.

But what if our cool, rational analysis is not what we think it is?

What if the analysis is part of an automated loop and is doing its

job by keeping us unaware that we are taking its evaluations of

despair to be literal truth?

We'd have to be crazy to think something like that! We are in

control! No one could sneak something like that past us!

But listen to your words:

" I wake up in the morning terrified of what my gut will do to me

today. The hours stretch out before me and my fondest wish is to

get to the evening where I'll feel better. I guess that's not

welcoming anxiety. It's difficult for me to put anxiety aside and

go on with my day, as anxiety is my day. The times when I feel

better are when I am working on understanding myself. "

What is the function of these words? To define anxiety as the

problem. To put yourself in the wrong ( " I guess that's not

welcoming anxiety " ), which is always a powerful technique for

staying stuck. To define the stuckness as something static. To

define anxiety as the issue, over and over again. To define the

only solution that seems possible as " feeling better " when you

" understand yourself. "

Sounds totally plausible. The words make sense. But what if, each

time you do what they say, you are actively maintaining your

stuckness?

In other words, what if language is not just something you think

and control, but a process with a function? And what if you are

habitually oblivious to these functions?

Imagine there is a ladder leading up out of the deep hole you find

yourself in. It is a ladder only you can see. But you see the

ladder as having only one step to it, on the bottom. And so every

night you climb that one bottom step and stop there. This is as far

as the ladder goes, you announce to everyone around you. No one

would say you were crazy. They would sigh at how sad and stuck you

were, but they would believe you that a ladder has only one bottom

step.

That ladder represents the language you use about your stuckness.

Your getting up on the one bottom step and never trying to climb

any higher represents your habitual response to language.

I suggest you get sneaky. Try an experiment. Track your behavior

each time you find yourself thinking words like the ones in your

post. You may find that each time, you follow such a thought by

choosing from a particular set of reptitive behaviors. It's as if

the words are controlling your choices. You might even start

writing down this experiment on paper in detail, so that you can

see if your thoughts & choices & actions over the course of a few

days represent patterns you hadn't been aware of.

The supposedly rational " description " that you see as " true " may be

linked to all sorts of behaviors you say you dislike - the behavior

of focusing your thinking on your " problem, " or the behavior of

trying to avoid thinking about your problem. And perhaps to some

physical behaviors that involve avoiding certain activities or

doing too much of other activities.

The mind will protest, call upon you to trust it: " If you can't

believe me, then what can you believe? " Fortunately you are not

your mind. You are an organism that possesses a mind but that can

make choices with or without the reasons your mind gives you.

Start noticing the choice points where your mind has told you

something and you are about to choose a familiar, stale behavior.

See if it's possible to choose differently in such moments. Start

with little moments first.

Of course you'll lose a lot if you go this route. You won't get to

be right anywmore. You may experience not just " anxiety, " but

actual fear and uncertainty about the future. Other emotions might

come forward like sadness. If you want you can hide from all of

this by staying inside anxiety. That becomes clear as a choice too.

The mind will object, it will object, it will object. It will make

it seem oh so terible. Who is that mind?

Wishing you some good experiments,

Randy

March 21, 2011

I think Randy's post is brilliant. Can I highlight one bit:"Try an experiment. Track your behavior each time you find yourself thinking words like the ones in your post. You may find that each time, you follow such a thought by choosing from a particular set of repetitive behaviors. It's as if the words are controlling your choices."This will help us be observant and mindful of our behaviours as well as our thoughts.I've come to the conclusion that I hate my anxiety not so much for how it makes me feel, but for how much of my life it has wasted. At some point I will forward a picture taken by my wife at a glorious country park in the Yorkshire Dales. I'm sitting staring into the middle distance, completely oblivious of what is around me. Why? My son had a party the next day, and

I was terrified he would be picked on, and I was completely and utterly fused pretty much the whole day.What a waste.Best wishes, xSubject: Re: The uninvited guestTo: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Monday, 21 March, 2011, 7:16

Hey Bruce,

I hope I don't muddy the waters after what Steve has said. I have

noticed something about the words you write that reminds me of

myself in certain situations, and also other people.

When we are stuck, whether stuck inside anxiety or depression or

what have you, we seem to be able to quite cooly and rationally

describe what our stuckness consists of. Would you agree this is

true for you as well?

So in this way we see ourselves as "outside" the problem, because

otherwise, how could we describe it so accurately? In fact, we tend

to say, we see the problem more clearly than anyone else. We are

looking at it. We know how it feels, hour to hour, moment to

moment. No one else has our life. We are the expert here.

But what if our cool, rational analysis is not what we think it is?

What if the analysis is part of an automated loop and is doing its

job by keeping us unaware that we are taking its evaluations of

despair to be literal truth?

We'd have to be crazy to think something like that! We are in

control! No one could sneak something like that past us!

But listen to your words:

"I wake up in the morning terrified of what my gut will do to me

today. The hours stretch out before me and my fondest wish is to

get to the evening where I'll feel better. I guess that's not

welcoming anxiety. It's difficult for me to put anxiety aside and

go on with my day, as anxiety is my day. The times when I feel

better are when I am working on understanding myself."

What is the function of these words? To define anxiety as the

problem. To put yourself in the wrong ("I guess that's not

welcoming anxiety"), which is always a powerful technique for

staying stuck. To define the stuckness as something static. To

define anxiety as the issue, over and over again. To define the

only solution that seems possible as "feeling better" when you

"understand yourself."

Sounds totally plausible. The words make sense. But what if, each

time you do what they say, you are actively maintaining your

stuckness?

In other words, what if language is not just something you think

and control, but a process with a function? And what if you are

habitually oblivious to these functions?

Imagine there is a ladder leading up out of the deep hole you find

yourself in. It is a ladder only you can see. But you see the

ladder as having only one step to it, on the bottom. And so every

night you climb that one bottom step and stop there. This is as far

as the ladder goes, you announce to everyone around you. No one

would say you were crazy. They would sigh at how sad and stuck you

were, but they would believe you that a ladder has only one bottom

step.

That ladder represents the language you use about your stuckness.

Your getting up on the one bottom step and never trying to climb

any higher represents your habitual response to language.

I suggest you get sneaky. Try an experiment. Track your behavior

each time you find yourself thinking words like the ones in your

post. You may find that each time, you follow such a thought by

choosing from a particular set of reptitive behaviors. It's as if

the words are controlling your choices. You might even start

writing down this experiment on paper in detail, so that you can

see if your thoughts & choices & actions over the course of a few

days represent patterns you hadn't been aware of.

The supposedly rational "description" that you see as "true" may be

linked to all sorts of behaviors you say you dislike - the behavior

of focusing your thinking on your "problem," or the behavior of

trying to avoid thinking about your problem. And perhaps to some

physical behaviors that involve avoiding certain activities or

doing too much of other activities.

The mind will protest, call upon you to trust it: "If you can't

believe me, then what can you believe?" Fortunately you are not

your mind. You are an organism that possesses a mind but that can

make choices with or without the reasons your mind gives you.

Start noticing the choice points where your mind has told you

something and you are about to choose a familiar, stale behavior.

See if it's possible to choose differently in such moments. Start

with little moments first.

Of course you'll lose a lot if you go this route. You won't get to

be right anywmore. You may experience not just "anxiety," but

actual fear and uncertainty about the future. Other emotions might

come forward like sadness. If you want you can hide from all of

this by staying inside anxiety. That becomes clear as a choice too.

The mind will object, it will object, it will object. It will make

it seem oh so terible. Who is that mind?

Wishing you some good experiments,

Randy

March 21, 2011

Yeah ... that " what a waste " deal is powerful ... but likeRandy's ladder if you buy into it, it too has one rung on the ladder ...and yet another moment is wasted.Ironically if you let go of that and learn the deep lesson it really wasn't wasted ...

the moments spent looking off into the distance instead become thepainful help you needed toloosen the iron grip of language we are all given heir to.Painful ... but not worthy of condemnation -- quite the opposite.

- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062 " Love isn't everything, it's the only thing "

hayes@... or stevenchayes@...Fax: Psych Department: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be):

Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mindHuffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phd

If you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes

http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.com

If you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar.

If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join

orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., " Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life " etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join

I think Randy's post is brilliant. Can I highlight one bit: " Try an experiment. Track your behavior each time you find yourself thinking words like the ones in your post. You may find that each time, you follow such a thought by choosing from a particular set of repetitive behaviors. It's as if the words are controlling your choices. "

This will help us be observant and mindful of our behaviours as well as our thoughts.I've come to the conclusion that I hate my anxiety not so much for how it makes me feel, but for how much of my life it has wasted. At some point I will forward a picture taken by my wife at a glorious country park in the Yorkshire Dales. I'm sitting staring into the middle distance, completely oblivious of what is around me. Why? My son had a party the next day, and

I was terrified he would be picked on, and I was completely and utterly fused pretty much the whole day.What a waste.Best wishes, x

Subject: Re: The uninvited guest

To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Monday, 21 March, 2011, 7:16

Hey Bruce,

I hope I don't muddy the waters after what Steve has said. I have

noticed something about the words you write that reminds me of

myself in certain situations, and also other people.

When we are stuck, whether stuck inside anxiety or depression or

what have you, we seem to be able to quite cooly and rationally

describe what our stuckness consists of. Would you agree this is

true for you as well?

So in this way we see ourselves as " outside " the problem, because

otherwise, how could we describe it so accurately? In fact, we tend

to say, we see the problem more clearly than anyone else. We are

looking at it. We know how it feels, hour to hour, moment to

moment. No one else has our life. We are the expert here.

But what if our cool, rational analysis is not what we think it is?

What if the analysis is part of an automated loop and is doing its

job by keeping us unaware that we are taking its evaluations of

despair to be literal truth?

We'd have to be crazy to think something like that! We are in

control! No one could sneak something like that past us!

But listen to your words:

" I wake up in the morning terrified of what my gut will do to me

today. The hours stretch out before me and my fondest wish is to

get to the evening where I'll feel better. I guess that's not

welcoming anxiety. It's difficult for me to put anxiety aside and

go on with my day, as anxiety is my day. The times when I feel

better are when I am working on understanding myself. "

What is the function of these words? To define anxiety as the

problem. To put yourself in the wrong ( " I guess that's not

welcoming anxiety " ), which is always a powerful technique for

staying stuck. To define the stuckness as something static. To

define anxiety as the issue, over and over again. To define the

only solution that seems possible as " feeling better " when you

" understand yourself. "

Sounds totally plausible. The words make sense. But what if, each

time you do what they say, you are actively maintaining your

stuckness?

In other words, what if language is not just something you think

and control, but a process with a function? And what if you are

habitually oblivious to these functions?

Imagine there is a ladder leading up out of the deep hole you find

yourself in. It is a ladder only you can see. But you see the

ladder as having only one step to it, on the bottom. And so every

night you climb that one bottom step and stop there. This is as far

as the ladder goes, you announce to everyone around you. No one

would say you were crazy. They would sigh at how sad and stuck you

were, but they would believe you that a ladder has only one bottom

step.

That ladder represents the language you use about your stuckness.

Your getting up on the one bottom step and never trying to climb

any higher represents your habitual response to language.

I suggest you get sneaky. Try an experiment. Track your behavior

each time you find yourself thinking words like the ones in your

post. You may find that each time, you follow such a thought by

choosing from a particular set of reptitive behaviors. It's as if

the words are controlling your choices. You might even start

writing down this experiment on paper in detail, so that you can

see if your thoughts & choices & actions over the course of a few

days represent patterns you hadn't been aware of.

The supposedly rational " description " that you see as " true " may be

linked to all sorts of behaviors you say you dislike - the behavior

of focusing your thinking on your " problem, " or the behavior of

trying to avoid thinking about your problem. And perhaps to some

physical behaviors that involve avoiding certain activities or

doing too much of other activities.

The mind will protest, call upon you to trust it: " If you can't

believe me, then what can you believe? " Fortunately you are not

your mind. You are an organism that possesses a mind but that can

make choices with or without the reasons your mind gives you.

Start noticing the choice points where your mind has told you

something and you are about to choose a familiar, stale behavior.

See if it's possible to choose differently in such moments. Start

with little moments first.

Of course you'll lose a lot if you go this route. You won't get to

be right anywmore. You may experience not just " anxiety, " but

actual fear and uncertainty about the future. Other emotions might

come forward like sadness. If you want you can hide from all of

this by staying inside anxiety. That becomes clear as a choice too.

The mind will object, it will object, it will object. It will make

it seem oh so terible. Who is that mind?

Wishing you some good experiments,

Randy

March 21, 2011

Hi BruceI'm in no way saying I can fully understand how you are feeling but this thread has a lot of great suggestions and I hope it will help you. I found it very interesting to read about how boring having the same thoughts and feelings can be. I don't think I was ever aware of it before but I have overcome some fears and anxiety due to boredom with them. The going round and round with the same thoughts gets terribly boring. I can actually remember thinking at some point that I can't be bothered with these thoughts any longer. I didn't deliberately try to let go of the thoughts I just had finally reached a point where I was so bored with them that I got involved with other stuff and maybe therefore other thoughts. I started doing things regardless and the talk in my head was just not worth listening to anymore. Same old same old I did get rid of my fear of flying that way. I've got to travel a fair bit and don't like flying. I would often stress about it for days in advance. Every time the same fear and the same thoughts. At some point I decided it was boring and absolutely useless thinking all this stuff. I have to travel and I might as well read a book, watch a movie or do something more worthwhile than sitting there sweating and freaking out at the slightest turbulence. I often feel I don't quite get my responses to reflect exactly what I'm trying to say. But basically I would like you to know you're not alone with your feelings and despair. Birgit Sent from my iPhone

Thanks so much for this, Steve. A lot to think about.This feeling is boring. I totally agree. I've been keeping a journal for over 3 years and the feelings I was dealing with 3 years ago are basically the same as now. It's pretty discouraging that I've progressed so little. I have changed a lot of my ideas, attitudes and habits. But my habit of being a hostage to the fear has not changed. It gets better occasionally and gets worse again. It's pretty bad right now.Thanks for the encouragement and ideas. I appreciate it.BruceWell read this and you can see where the so-called "fascination" comes from:"It's difficult for me to put anxiety aside and go on with my day, as anxiety is my day. The times when I feel better" You are not fascinated. No way. Nothing in this post or those words sounds fascinated. It sounds oppressed.Be honest. This is friggin boring. Baba Ram Dass did a talk on anxiety some years ago in which we said he could never let go of anxiety until he fulling contacted how boring it was.I remember that moment as a key in my life -- I stopped trying not to panicbecause I was fed up with sameness ... not because the heavens opened up. This struggle is Predictable. Lifeless. Repetitive. Obsessive. Automatic. Programmed.Boooooorrring. So why spend so much time talking to a bore? Where else in your life would you do such a thing?Think about it. It does not happen everywhere You are trying to solve the problem. Who controls that agenda? The guest? YOU bought the idea she was a problem that had to be solved. Withdraw the agreement. You are trying to negotiate. Who gave her the right to decide what your life is about? You need permission to live? Who's life is this? You or your programming?You are bowing down to the "boss." Who made her the boss? You do not need to get your thinking on something else if the purpose is to live inside problem solving,negotiation, and being a slave to your history. Get your thinking on something else for the same reason you get up to have a soda, or pee, or turn on the TV. Because there are things to do.Either that, or continue to be "fascinated." But at least be so inside open awareness.See what is in your discussions with the guest.Maybe this is really worth your life moments. Maybe you have things still to learn. It's OK. No one is keeping score. There is not speedometer on your head.Even watching boredom can be interesting if you keep your eyes wideBut when you have learned all you came to learn, smile and go talk to someone else. Nuttin better to do. Might as well liveGood luck my friend. You are doing what we all do- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of Nevada Reno, NV 89557-0062"Love isn't everything, it's the only thing"hayes@... or stevenchayes@... Fax: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be): Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mind Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phdIf you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.comIf you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar. If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., "Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life" etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join Thanks for your reply, Steve. I guess she is fascinating. For the past two days, I have thought of my emotional issues virtually around the clock. I wake up with that subject springing immediately to mind. Even when I'm engaged in something, my emotional state is occupying at least half of my brain power. I literally can't recall what I used to think about before I became obsessed with the feeling of fear. I can't imagine what other people do with their minds all day. I wake up in the morning terrified of what my gut will do to me today. The hours stretch out before me and my fondest wish is to get to the evening where I'll feel better. I guess that's not welcoming anxiety. It's difficult for me to put anxiety aside and go on with my day, as anxiety is my day. The times when I feel better are when I am working on understanding myself. I understand that I need to get my thinking on something else. It's seems so hard to do, though I can in short stretches. I wish I could catch March Madness. It seems like other men fill their minds with sports fandom. I just can't bring myself to care. Thanks for listening,Bruce Usually if guests feel entirely welcome they wander around and talk to other guests at least some.And usually if you are not trying to monitor a guest you do the same thing ... unless someone is terribly interesting. Was she interesting?- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062"Love isn't everything, it's the only thing" hayes@... or stevenchayes@...Fax: Psych Department: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be): Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mindHuffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phd If you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.com If you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar. If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., "Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life" etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join What do you do when you allow the unwanted aunt into the party but then spend every moment of the party talking to her? Bruce

March 21, 2011

I can remember the point at which I became consciously bored with my anxiety. I decided to keep track of how much time I was spending on my anxiety and how much time on other stuff. I actually made a PowerPoint presentation to my ACT therapist describing the time study results!!!! I was spending nearly 70% of my day focusing on my anxiety. I vowed to drop that percentage to 10% and went looking for ways to accomplish that. I began volunteering more and my wife and I started traveling again (GOT MOVING). Interestingly, my baseline anxiety level is about the same now as before - lots of mind chatter, what iffing about mind stuff. What did go down a lot was the anxiety about the anxiety. In retrospect that anxiety accounted for a lot more pain than the baseline anxiety itself. Hardly a day passes that I do not face a fork in the road, one way the STRUGGLE path and one way the LET GO/GET MOVING path. The path my bus takes is the sum of the choices I make about which fork to take. I have not found any shortcuts or an autopilot.

A side note: I clearly recall describing my anxiety in almost regal terms, as if I was admiring it. At first I thought this might be acceptance but I was spending way too much time on it. Maybe that was like Bruce spending all of his time with the aunt at the party.

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: birgitwerner68@...Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 20:50:00 +0800Subject: Re: The uninvited guest

Hi Bruce

I'm in no way saying I can fully understand how you are feeling but this thread has a lot of great suggestions and I hope it will help you.

I found it very interesting to read about how boring having the same thoughts and feelings can be. I don't think I was ever aware of it before but I have overcome some fears and anxiety due to boredom with them. The going round and round with the same thoughts gets terribly boring. I can actually remember thinking at some point that I can't be bothered with these thoughts any longer. I didn't deliberately try to let go of the thoughts I just had finally reached a point where I was so bored with them that I got involved with other stuff and maybe therefore other thoughts. I started doing things regardless and the talk in my head was just not worth listening to anymore. Same old same old

I did get rid of my fear of flying that way. I've got to travel a fair bit and don't like flying. I would often stress about it for days in advance.

Every time the same fear and the same thoughts. At some point I decided it was boring and absolutely useless thinking all this stuff. I have to travel and I might as well read a book, watch a movie or do something more worthwhile than sitting there sweating and freaking out at the slightest turbulence.

I often feel I don't quite get my responses to reflect exactly what I'm trying to say.

But basically I would like you to know you're not alone with your feelings and despair.

Birgit

Sent from my iPhone

Thanks so much for this, Steve. A lot to think about.

This feeling is boring. I totally agree. I've been keeping a journal for over 3 years and the feelings I was dealing with 3 years ago are basically the same as now. It's pretty discouraging that I've progressed so little. I have changed a lot of my ideas, attitudes and habits. But my habit of being a hostage to the fear has not changed. It gets better occasionally and gets worse again. It's pretty bad right now.

Thanks for the encouragement and ideas. I appreciate it.

Bruce

Well read this and you can see where the so-called "fascination" comes from:"It's difficult for me to put anxiety aside and go on with my day, as anxiety is my day. The times when I feel better"You are not fascinated. No way. Nothing in this post or those words sounds fascinated. It sounds oppressed.Be honest. This is friggin boring. Baba Ram Dass did a talk on anxiety some years ago in which wesaid he could never let go of anxiety until he fulling contacted how boring it was.I remember that moment as a key in my life -- I stopped trying not to panicbecause I was fed up with sameness ... not because the heavens opened up.This struggle is Predictable. Lifeless. Repetitive. Obsessive. Automatic. Programmed.Boooooorrring. So why spend so much time talking to a bore? Where else in your life would you do such a thing?Think about it. It does not happen everywhereYou are trying to solve the problem. Who controls that agenda? The guest? YOU bought the idea she was a problem that had to be solved. Withdraw the agreement. You are trying to negotiate. Who gave her the right to decide what your life is about? You need permission to live? Who's life is this? You or your programming?You are bowing down to the "boss." Who made her the boss?You do not need to get your thinking on something else if the purpose is to live inside problem solving,negotiation, and being a slave to your history. Get your thinking on something else for the same reason you get up to have a soda,or pee, or turn on the TV. Because there are things to do.Either that, or continue to be "fascinated." But at least be so inside open awareness.See what is in your discussions with the guest.Maybe this is really worth your life moments. Maybe you have things still to learn.It's OK. No one is keeping score. There is not speedometer on your head.Even watching boredom can be interesting if you keep your eyes wideBut when you have learned all you came to learn, smile and go talk to someone else.Nuttin better to do. Might as well liveGood luck my friend. You are doing what we all do- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062"Love isn't everything, it's the only thing"hayes@... or stevenchayes@...Fax: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be): Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mindHuffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phdIf you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.comIf you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar.If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/joinorhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., "Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life" etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join

Thanks for your reply, Steve. I guess she is fascinating. For the past two days, I have thought of my emotional issues virtually around the clock. I wake up with that subject springing immediately to mind. Even when I'm engaged in something, my emotional state is occupying at least half of my brain power.

I literally can't recall what I used to think about before I became obsessed with the feeling of fear. I can't imagine what other people do with their minds all day. I wake up in the morning terrified of what my gut will do to me today. The hours stretch out before me and my fondest wish is to get to the evening where I'll feel better. I guess that's not welcoming anxiety. It's difficult for me to put anxiety aside and go on with my day, as anxiety is my day. The times when I feel better are when I am working on understanding myself.

I understand that I need to get my thinking on something else. It's seems so hard to do, though I can in short stretches. I wish I could catch March Madness. It seems like other men fill their minds with sports fandom. I just can't bring myself to care.

Thanks for listening,

Bruce

Usually if guests feel entirely welcome they wander around and talk to other guests at least some.And usually if you are not trying to monitor a guest you do the same thing ... unless someone is terribly interesting.Was she interesting?- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062"Love isn't everything, it's the only thing"hayes@... or stevenchayes@...Fax: Psych Department: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be): Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mindHuffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phdIf you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.comIf you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar.If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/joinorhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., "Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life" etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join

What do you do when you allow the unwanted aunt into the party but then spend every moment of the party talking to her?Bruce

March 21, 2011

My characteristic way of going through such events tends to be more visceral, in that there would be some sort of cascade of thought and emotion during which I would challenge thoughts/feelings of pain and terror -- more or less telling them to "fuck off", accompanied by a breaking out in sweat, after which I would feel relaxed, in command, regardless of external circumstances. It's almost as though there is another person inside of me, who takes over when necessary. That "other person" is not my day-to-day usual self. He only emerges when really dire circumstances call. I don't know if Act has a name for this.Regards,Detlef> > > > > > > What do you do when you allow the unwanted aunt into the party but > then spend every moment of the party talking to her?> > Bruce>

March 21, 2011

Just to be clear, the 'crack' I see tucked in between your words is the

yearning, the putting it out there, the sliver of light that is yours for the

taking. I felt hopeful when you wrote " right now " at the end there. That's

noticing that you're not 'destined to always' be a slave to this kind of thing.

And that's a lot.

So perhaps your habit of being hostage to fear in a sense does change( even

though your evaluation says no) however slightly, just by noticing and putting

it out here, by thanking Steve, really listening and allowing his words to

settle in (i recommend you don't think too much, just breathe his words in

lightly and let them simmer...your mind will look for another answer/formula if

you try too hard to figure it out).

Every process is different, and for me, noticing how bored I am with my

suffering has slowly emerged/emerging as a result of many things.. pure

exhaustion coupled with realizing the past is really gone and all I have is this

moment and then this moment and now this breath...and most of all a loving

willingness as I am letting myself off the hook. Now, and now again as I fear

these words will ring hollow. It's just something I declare. It's the ultimate

meta-value.

Compassion, forgiveness, space for something new and scary yet maybe a tiny

miracle.

With the breath.

Terry

> > >>

> > >> What do you do when you allow the unwanted aunt into the party but

> > >> then spend every moment of the party talking to her?

> > >>

> > >> Bruce

> > >>

> > >

> >

>

March 21, 2011

Just wanted to add, there's a place without language, where words have no meaning and are only sounds. Very confronting to the language-bound, which is all of us most of the time.Regards,Detlef> >> >> >> >> >> >> > What do you do when you allow the unwanted aunt into the party but> > then spend every moment of the party talking to her?> >> > Bruce> >>

March 21, 2011

I can relate to the time spent. Obviously, I'm spending time thinking about anxiety right now. I am feeling a little better today, although not good. But better. I have taken some valued action this afternoon with a work project that I generated and which went very well. I'm beating myself up about the fact that I was not as focused during this project as I would like to be. I would like to be able to devote my full attention but was not able to do that. Still, it was action that went well so I have accomplished something today.I'm spending more than 70% of my time focused on anxiety. Probably more like 85-90%. I can see that is ridiculous but it's where I am. It's not so much the thoughts that are repetitive as the feeling. It's either a heaviness or a sharp pain in the gut. I've been dealing well with it today but where I'm challenged is befriending it or accepting it. I can do so for very brief periods. Then I go back to the struggle. Then I struggle with the fact that I'm struggling.Thanks to everyone who has posted. BruceI can remember the point at which I became consciously bored with my anxiety. I decided to keep track of how much time I was spending on my anxiety and how much time on other stuff. I actually made a PowerPoint presentation to my ACT therapist describing the time study results!!!! I was spending nearly 70% of my day focusing on my anxiety. I vowed to drop that percentage to 10% and went looking for ways to accomplish that. I began volunteering more and my wife and I started traveling again (GOT MOVING). Interestingly, my baseline anxiety level is about the same now as before - lots of mind chatter, what iffing about mind stuff. What did go down a lot was the anxiety about the anxiety. In retrospect that anxiety accounted for a lot more pain than the baseline anxiety itself. Hardly a day passes that I do not face a fork in the road, one way the STRUGGLE path and one way the LET GO/GET MOVING path. The path my bus takes is the sum of the choices I make about which fork to take. I have not found any shortcuts or an autopilot. A side note: I clearly recall describing my anxiety in almost regal terms, as if I was admiring it. At first I thought this might be acceptance but I was spending way too much time on it. Maybe that was like Bruce spending all of his time with the aunt at the party. BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: birgitwerner68@...Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 20:50:00 +0800Subject: Re: The uninvited guestHi BruceI'm in no way saying I can fully understand how you are feeling but this thread has a lot of great suggestions and I hope it will help you. I found it very interesting to read about how boring having the same thoughts and feelings can be. I don't think I was ever aware of it before but I have overcome some fears and anxiety due to boredom with them. The going round and round with the same thoughts gets terribly boring. I can actually remember thinking at some point that I can't be bothered with these thoughts any longer. I didn't deliberately try to let go of the thoughts I just had finally reached a point where I was so bored with them that I got involved with other stuff and maybe therefore other thoughts. I started doing things regardless and the talk in my head was just not worth listening to anymore. Same old same old I did get rid of my fear of flying that way. I've got to travel a fair bit and don't like flying. I would often stress about it for days in advance. Every time the same fear and the same thoughts. At some point I decided it was boring and absolutely useless thinking all this stuff. I have to travel and I might as well read a book, watch a movie or do something more worthwhile than sitting there sweating and freaking out at the slightest turbulence. I often feel I don't quite get my responses to reflect exactly what I'm trying to say. But basically I would like you to know you're not alone with your feelings and despair. Birgit Sent from my iPhone Thanks so much for this, Steve. A lot to think about.This feeling is boring. I totally agree. I've been keeping a journal for over 3 years and the feelings I was dealing with 3 years ago are basically the same as now. It's pretty discouraging that I've progressed so little. I have changed a lot of my ideas, attitudes and habits. But my habit of being a hostage to the fear has not changed. It gets better occasionally and gets worse again. It's pretty bad right now.Thanks for the encouragement and ideas. I appreciate it.BruceWell read this and you can see where the so-called "fascination" comes from:"It's difficult for me to put anxiety aside and go on with my day, as anxiety is my day. The times when I feel better"You are not fascinated. No way. Nothing in this post or those words sounds fascinated. It sounds oppressed.Be honest. This is friggin boring. Baba Ram Dass did a talk on anxiety some years ago in which wesaid he could never let go of anxiety until he fulling contacted how boring it was.I remember that moment as a key in my life -- I stopped trying not to panicbecause I was fed up with sameness ... not because the heavens opened up.This struggle is Predictable. Lifeless. Repetitive. Obsessive. Automatic. Programmed.Boooooorrring. So why spend so much time talking to a bore? Where else in your life would you do such a thing?Think about it. It does not happen everywhereYou are trying to solve the problem. Who controls that agenda? The guest? YOU bought the idea she was a problem that had to be solved. Withdraw the agreement. You are trying to negotiate. Who gave her the right to decide what your life is about? You need permission to live? Who's life is this? You or your programming?You are bowing down to the "boss." Who made her the boss?You do not need to get your thinking on something else if the purpose is to live inside problem solving,negotiation, and being a slave to your history. Get your thinking on something else for the same reason you get up to have a soda,or pee, or turn on the TV. Because there are things to do.Either that, or continue to be "fascinated." But at least be so inside open awareness.See what is in your discussions with the guest.Maybe this is really worth your life moments. Maybe you have things still to learn.It's OK. No one is keeping score. There is not speedometer on your head.Even watching boredom can be interesting if you keep your eyes wideBut when you have learned all you came to learn, smile and go talk to someone else.Nuttin better to do. Might as well liveGood luck my friend. You are doing what we all do- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062"Love isn't everything, it's the only thing"hayes@... or stevenchayes@...Fax: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be): Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mindHuffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phdIf you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.comIf you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar.If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go tohttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/joinorhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., "Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life" etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/joinOn Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Bruce Carlson wrote: Thanks for your reply, Steve. I guess she is fascinating. For the past two days, I have thought of my emotional issues virtually around the clock. I wake up with that subject springing immediately to mind. Even when I'm engaged in something, my emotional state is occupying at least half of my brain power.I literally can't recall what I used to think about before I became obsessed with the feeling of fear. I can't imagine what other people do with their minds all day. I wake up in the morning terrified of what my gut will do to me today. The hours stretch out before me and my fondest wish is to get to the evening where I'll feel better. I guess that's not welcoming anxiety. It's difficult for me to put anxiety aside and go on with my day, as anxiety is my day. The times when I feel better are when I am working on understanding myself.I understand that I need to get my thinking on something else. It's seems so hard to do, though I can in short stretches. I wish I could catch March Madness. It seems like other men fill their minds with sports fandom. I just can't bring myself to care.Thanks for listening,BruceUsually if guests feel entirely welcome they wander around and talk to other guests at least some.And usually if you are not trying to monitor a guest you do the same thing ... unless someone is terribly interesting.Was she interesting?- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062"Love isn't everything, it's the only thing"hayes@... or stevenchayes@...Fax: Psych Department: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be): Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mindHuffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phdIf you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.comIf you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar.If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go tohttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/joinorhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., "Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life" etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/joinOn Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Bruce Carlson wrote: What do you do when you allow the unwanted aunt into the party but then spend every moment of the party talking to her?Bruce

March 21, 2011

Bruce - The thoughts make the physical symptoms worse for me. Beating yourself up is as bad as getting your ass kicked on the street, probably worse. Self-compassion is the antidote. Cut yourself some serious slack.

I love data and tend to be very results oriented. I actually came up with a rating system for my day. I started out rating how I felt at the end of each day. That was a disaster and my therapist quickly pointed out that I had simply come up with a nifty way to quantitfy the effect of my struggling. I then shifted to giving myself a score of how well I did in living a valued life. Interestingly, I found a linear relationship between the amount of committed action I took to how valued a life I lived that day. The trick is that the committed action has to be towards your values and not in avoiding something - intent.

I know I've said this before AND I'm going to say it again. ACT progress is incremental. You may have ahaa moments along the way but they will quickly disappear, leaving only the memory of a small success. You say you are feeling a little better today ... Celebrate that in a very small way, instead of flogging yourself for not being focused. Do you see how you are doing quite a bit of this to yourself? In the PFing scheme of things. starting to beat up on yourself is a hook that wants to drag you away from your values . When you notice that hook, deliberately decide to go the other way towards your values by doing something you value, even if it's just a bit of self-compassion.

I know. Blah, blah, blah. I and many others on this list want you to figure this out. We are rooting for you. Take a little of our compassion for yourself.

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: onebnz@...Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 15:24:26 -0700Subject: Re: The uninvited guest

I can relate to the time spent. Obviously, I'm spending time thinking about anxiety right now. I am feeling a little better today, although not good. But better. I have taken some valued action this afternoon with a work project that I generated and which went very well. I'm beating myself up about the fact that I was not as focused during this project as I would like to be. I would like to be able to devote my full attention but was not able to do that. Still, it was action that went well so I have accomplished something today.

I'm spending more than 70% of my time focused on anxiety. Probably more like 85-90%. I can see that is ridiculous but it's where I am. It's not so much the thoughts that are repetitive as the feeling. It's either a heaviness or a sharp pain in the gut. I've been dealing well with it today but where I'm challenged is befriending it or accepting it. I can do so for very brief periods. Then I go back to the struggle. Then I struggle with the fact that I'm struggling.

Thanks to everyone who has posted.

Bruce

I can remember the point at which I became consciously bored with my anxiety. I decided to keep track of how much time I was spending on my anxiety and how much time on other stuff. I actually made a PowerPoint presentation to my ACT therapist describing the time study results!!!! I was spending nearly 70% of my day focusing on my anxiety. I vowed to drop that percentage to 10% and went looking for ways to accomplish that. I began volunteering more and my wife and I started traveling again (GOT MOVING). Interestingly, my baseline anxiety level is about the same now as before - lots of mind chatter, what iffing about mind stuff. What did go down a lot was the anxiety about the anxiety. In retrospect that anxiety accounted for a lot more pain than the baseline anxiety itself. Hardly a day passes that I do not face a fork in the road, one way the STRUGGLE path and one way the LET GO/GET MOVING path. The path my bus takes is the sum of the choices I make about which fork to take. I have not found any shortcuts or an autopilot. A side note: I clearly recall describing my anxiety in almost regal terms, as if I was admiring it. At first I thought this might be acceptance but I was spending way too much time on it. Maybe that was like Bruce spending all of his time with the aunt at the party. Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: birgitwerner68@...Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 20:50:00 +0800Subject: Re: The uninvited guest

Hi Bruce

I'm in no way saying I can fully understand how you are feeling but this thread has a lot of great suggestions and I hope it will help you.

I found it very interesting to read about how boring having the same thoughts and feelings can be. I don't think I was ever aware of it before but I have overcome some fears and anxiety due to boredom with them. The going round and round with the same thoughts gets terribly boring. I can actually remember thinking at some point that I can't be bothered with these thoughts any longer. I didn't deliberately try to let go of the thoughts I just had finally reached a point where I was so bored with them that I got involved with other stuff and maybe therefore other thoughts. I started doing things regardless and the talk in my head was just not worth listening to anymore. Same old same old

I did get rid of my fear of flying that way. I've got to travel a fair bit and don't like flying. I would often stress about it for days in advance.

Every time the same fear and the same thoughts. At some point I decided it was boring and absolutely useless thinking all this stuff. I have to travel and I might as well read a book, watch a movie or do something more worthwhile than sitting there sweating and freaking out at the slightest turbulence.

I often feel I don't quite get my responses to reflect exactly what I'm trying to say.

But basically I would like you to know you're not alone with your feelings and despair.

Birgit

Sent from my iPhone

Thanks so much for this, Steve. A lot to think about.

This feeling is boring. I totally agree. I've been keeping a journal for over 3 years and the feelings I was dealing with 3 years ago are basically the same as now. It's pretty discouraging that I've progressed so little. I have changed a lot of my ideas, attitudes and habits. But my habit of being a hostage to the fear has not changed. It gets better occasionally and gets worse again. It's pretty bad right now.

Thanks for the encouragement and ideas. I appreciate it.

Bruce

Well read this and you can see where the so-called "fascination" comes from:"It's difficult for me to put anxiety aside and go on with my day, as anxiety is my day. The times when I feel better"You are not fascinated. No way. Nothing in this post or those words sounds fascinated. It sounds oppressed.Be honest. This is friggin boring. Baba Ram Dass did a talk on anxiety some years ago in which wesaid he could never let go of anxiety until he fulling contacted how boring it was.I remember that moment as a key in my life -- I stopped trying not to panicbecause I was fed up with sameness ... not because the heavens opened up.This struggle is Predictable. Lifeless. Repetitive. Obsessive. Automatic. Programmed.Boooooorrring. So why spend so much time talking to a bore? Where else in your life would you do such a thing?Think about it. It does not happen everywhereYou are trying to solve the problem. Who controls that agenda? The guest? YOU bought the idea she was a problem that had to be solved. Withdraw the agreement. You are trying to negotiate. Who gave her the right to decide what your life is about? You need permission to live? Who's life is this? You or your programming?You are bowing down to the "boss." Who made her the boss?You do not need to get your thinking on something else if the purpose is to live inside problem solving,negotiation, and being a slave to your history. Get your thinking on something else for the same reason you get up to have a soda,or pee, or turn on the TV. Because there are things to do.Either that, or continue to be "fascinated." But at least be so inside open awareness.See what is in your discussions with the guest.Maybe this is really worth your life moments. Maybe you have things still to learn.It's OK. No one is keeping score. There is not speedometer on your head.Even watching boredom can be interesting if you keep your eyes wideBut when you have learned all you came to learn, smile and go talk to someone else.Nuttin better to do. Might as well liveGood luck my friend. You are doing what we all do- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062"Love isn't everything, it's the only thing"hayes@... or stevenchayes@...Fax: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be): Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mindHuffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phdIf you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.comIf you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar.If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go tohttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/joinorhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., "Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life" etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join

Thanks for your reply, Steve. I guess she is fascinating. For the past two days, I have thought of my emotional issues virtually around the clock. I wake up with that subject springing immediately to mind. Even when I'm engaged in something, my emotional state is occupying at least half of my brain power.

I literally can't recall what I used to think about before I became obsessed with the feeling of fear. I can't imagine what other people do with their minds all day. I wake up in the morning terrified of what my gut will do to me today. The hours stretch out before me and my fondest wish is to get to the evening where I'll feel better. I guess that's not welcoming anxiety. It's difficult for me to put anxiety aside and go on with my day, as anxiety is my day. The times when I feel better are when I am working on understanding myself.

I understand that I need to get my thinking on something else. It's seems so hard to do, though I can in short stretches. I wish I could catch March Madness. It seems like other men fill their minds with sports fandom. I just can't bring myself to care.

Thanks for listening,

Bruce

Usually if guests feel entirely welcome they wander around and talk to other guests at least some.And usually if you are not trying to monitor a guest you do the same thing ... unless someone is terribly interesting.Was she interesting?- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062"Love isn't everything, it's the only thing"hayes@... or stevenchayes@...Fax: Psych Department: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be): Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mindHuffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phdIf you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page or my blog at the ACBS site: http://www.contextualpsychology.org/steven_hayes http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes or you can try my website (not really quite functional yet) stevenchayes.comIf you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost starts at a dollar.If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go tohttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/joinorhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., "Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life" etc) and want to be part of the conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join

What do you do when you allow the unwanted aunt into the party but then spend every moment of the party talking to her?Bruce

March 22, 2011

Bruce,Another thought about "your uninvited guest": What do you do when you allow the unwanted aunt into the party butthen spend every moment of the party talking to her?It seems that you are talking in metaphor.That "unwanted aunt/uninvited guest/" can be your "unwanted/endless internal mental self-chatter".The reason that you "get -stuck" talking or or "allow yourself" entertaining her is not because she is interesting,but like you and me, we don't know how to have control over these guests and discipline over ourselves.Maybe we're just scared to "talk" to other guest (the stuffs or tasks that require us to shape-up or complete)or this aunt can "tolerate" whatever we want to unimportant or shallow stuffs we prefer to talk about

endlessly.We just can't, we're drawn into wasting our time and energy with them, while we are painfully aware thatwe are procrastinating or not doing the right or urgent stuffs that need to get done or pay attention to.We just can't and we just don't know how, not because we don't want to. We want to. We just can't.Just like me, typing this e-mail and sharing my thoughts, when I have my staffs waiting for my instructionson how to complete a project in an hour's time!Just me...From: Bruce Carlson

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 9:33:50 AMSubject: Re: Re: The uninvited guest

That's a very interesting idea. For me, the anxiety is not stimulating, it causes more of a shut-down, withdrawal feeling. But I like the idea of reinterpreting the meaning of the feelings. I have had some success trying to carry the pain like it was an injury. I have a knee that hurts but I don't obsess about it all day. In fact, I used to have very sore achilles tendons, which I believe held my negative emotions before they came into my life as anxiety and depression. I'd sure like to have the sore ankles back. They were a lot easier to deal with than raw emotions.BruceHi Bruce,I'm kinda going off on my own tangent again but I read this and it struck me, " It's not so much the thoughts that are repetitive as the feeling. It's either a heaviness or a sharp pain in the gut."That's interesting, your body produces a chemical reaction which triggers multiple sensations. I wonder how much control we have over our body's chemical reactions? I don't experience the feelings you describe to the same extent as you, it must be hard to go around with that for so much of your day. It occurred to me though, once when I was experiencing that acute body pain, that according to ACT, I can't change it so the only way left

was to find another way of thinking about it, another way of responding to it. I looked at the other side of the emotion of anxiety and found that those body sensations (the chemical reactions) are akin to adrenaline (which I love). Perhaps, I thought, if I can turn this anxiety into adrenaline, I can use the energy in a more productive way. To do that, when my body is reacting, I take a moment to practice `imagery' and take myself back to high stimulus moments in my life; like the best sex ever or when I jumped out of a plane, riding motorbikes or whatever got the adrenaline going. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, it really depends on how well I am able to work with the imagery exercise and that depends on lots of things. Practice, practice, right. :-) With warm regard,Lou> >> > > > Bruce> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>

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