Re: Re: candida and diet

[Guest guest]

Hear Hear!!

I usually omit gluten too but otherwise the Med Diet seems to work well.

Stress, high or low cortisol, antibiotics, other drugs etc can all create leaky

gut and gut dysbiosis. Unless theses are addressed the self diagnosed Candida

patients do not get well and keep repeating the ridiculous

diet.Calendula/Matricaria and licorice tea do a great job here. If they are

really hooked on the Candida thing I stick in some pau d'arco too!.

J Fidler, MCPP, (RH) AHG

Herbalist

Re: candida and diet

Hi Both

Seems to me that putting this patient on a candida diet would not be

very useful?

I don't know whether the candida theory is right or not, but I do know

that some of the dietary restrictions are very illogical -

eg - if there is an overgrowth of yeast, anybody who has ever brewed

wine or beer knows that the best way to kill off your yeast is to leave

the fermenting mixture sitting on the layer of dead yeast that builds up

in the fermenting vessel - there is a negative feedback loop, whereby

the presence of yeast kills off the remaining yeast. So taking brewers

yeast (an excellent source of B vitamins and some useful micronutrients)

or leavened bread is not going to sustain any candida overgrowth, rather

the reverse.

I wouldn't but in here, , but some of my patients who have interpreted

their own symptoms as being due to candida and embarked on athe

recommended diet have presented in a state of really sub optimal

nutrition, with noticeable anxiety about their food. I think that

many of the symptoms listed for candida are identical (if not in fact

due to) to long term stress, and that the diagnosis of candida and

dietary restriction adds to this stress.

In any case, I think that putting people on a good wholefood,

mediterranean type diet, heavy on the garlic would sort out gut

dysbiosis (and pomegranate possibly too - yum!) fairly quickly anyway,

while promoting optimal health. It always seems to me that is what what

we do, and the symptoms resolve as part of this process.

The main part of the candida diet that makes sense to me logically is to

restrict sugar intake, this is good advice anyway - as Chanchal Cabrera

said at the NIMH cancer seminars, IFIRC - sugar is a strong promoter of

malignancy. But I wouldn't extend that to strawberries!

Oh and I completely agree that this particular patient may have a strong

investment in her dis ease. I am intrigued that she has a weight

problem, but no appetitie......... Stress has a great deal to answer,

for I think, we are very lucky to have such a wonderful toolchest of

nervines and adaptogens to draw on. Long may it continue.

best wishes

Sally Owen

> Another angle on some ME/CFS pts is that it is a sort of physical

> depression brought about by pts not allowing themselves, for many

> reasons, to face emotional issues.

> Symptoms are created to deflect attention from underlying emotional

> issues - particularly related to anger and rage that are too

> devastating to consider consciously.

> ME/CFS is not depression, but, in some pts it could be a consequence

> of not looking deeply into the darkness that is in all of us.

>

> best wishes,

> Guy

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>> Hello Guy,

>>

>> And, thank you for your considered response...

>>

>> I quite agree with what you write, as I believe a core issue in the

>> ME/CFS scenario is Candida up to mischief. Anti-fungal treatment is a

>> great move; the die-off issue will be reduced if the bowel and kidneys

>> work well. I like your comment " particularly a hypersensitivity to

>> self,

>> both in terms of physiology and psychology " - it reminds me of my

>> thinking as to why these conditions occur in the first place.

>>

>> Blessings,

>>

>> Benn

>>

>>

>>

>>> Hello Benn,

>>>

>>> Thanks for your considered reply.

>>> I agree that organisms normally found in the gut can cross into the

>>> general circulation if the gut barrier is compromised and can take up

>>> residence in tissues that for various reasons have less vitality or

>>> protection than they need. One possibility is that these organisms

>>> then create allergic type reactions, for example, leading to symptoms

>>> of 'irritable bladder' etc, depending on their location. Getting a

>>> handle on diagnosis can be tricky, though. One doctor, Dr Myhill, who

>>> treats lots of me/cfs patients, often recommends a two week course

>>> of systemic anti-fungal drug medication to see if the specific

>>> symptoms improve which can then be treated with diet, supplements,

>>> herbs etc. However, die-off reactions from systemic antifungal drugs

>>> can be unpleasant and may be confused with the drug side effects. Of

>>> course, we need to look at why the gut barrier was compromised and

>>> why the pt could not detoxify/eliminate the infection in the first

>>> place. I reckon that ME pts and candida pts have a lot in common -

>>> particularly a hypersensitivity to self, both in terms of physiology

>>> and psychology, that requires treatment on both these levels.

>>>

>>> best wishes,

>>>

>>> Guy

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>> Hello Guy,

>>>>

>>>> Thank you asking, you've got me to review my thinking... I read a

>>>> lot

>>>> about Candida about 6 years ago using Leon Chaitow's book “Candida

>>>> albicans†as my start point. All of what follows is as I remember

>>>> it or

>>>> made of the materials I read.

>>>>

>>>> Candida is symbiotic in normal digestion. This relationship changes

>>>> when

>>>> the normal gut flora changes due to (frequent) antibiotics, other

>>>> drug

>>>> treatments, stress and increased sugary foods, among other factors.

>>>> Under these conditions Candida overgrows and becomes overtly

>>>> parasitic

>>>> living off the host's food resources and causing all the digestive

>>>> symptoms it is known for.

>>>>

>>>> The complication of a parasite requiring nourishment from, and

>>>> creating

>>>> toxins for, the host changes gut health and gut permeability. These

>>>> changes in turn lead to food intolerances and allergies, further gut

>>>> lining changes and leaky gut syndrome. Candida then escapes from

>>>> the gut

>>>> into the blood. Once in the blood, the parasite will travel to other

>>>> organs and continue to manipulate organ processes for its own

>>>> benefit -

>>>> the delivery of food.

>>>>

>>>> My use of the word systemic is to convey that Candida has taken up

>>>> positions outside the gut. Its success is due to two factors: the

>>>> host

>>>> experiences toxin overload due to ineffective detoxification

>>>> pathways

>>>> and a weakened immune system (due to loss of direct nourishment)

>>>> that is

>>>> too busy trying to counter toxins loose in the system.

>>>>

>>>> This view does clash with orthodox thinking, as do many of the

>>>> natural

>>>> medicine views we work with. I personally believe that orthodox

>>>> medicine

>>>> doesn't acknowledge many of the more subtle aspects of well-being

>>>> that

>>>> we in natural medicine do. It is only when something has become

>>>> OVERT is

>>>> it considered to be true and worth noting. However, before becoming

>>>> OVERT, there were other processes already at work. This theory can

>>>> explain some of those processes, and why.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Blessings,

>>>>

>>>> Benn

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>> Hello Benn,

>>>>>

>>>>> Just wondered about the possibility you raised of 'systemic

>>>>> candida'.

>>>>> Orthodox opinion holds that candida is only systemic in severley

>>>>> immunocompromised patients such as people with terminal AIDS. What

>>>>> makes you feel that candida can be systemic in other populations

>>>>> and

>>>>> what exactly do you mean by systemic?

>>>>>

>>>>> best wishes,

>>>>> Guy

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>> I have some thoughts I'd like to share -

>>>>>>

>>>>>> 1) I just wonder, apart from a potential psychosomatic need to be

>>>>>> ill,

>>>>>> if this patient has systemic Candida? Which could explain the

>>>>>> whole

>>>>>> pattern.

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Blessings,

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Benn

>>>>>>

>>>>>>