Re: To the moderators

[Guest guest]

You must be the same Helena who started the Troyan war :-)I am a newbie here and don't speak for anybody, but if people with psychological pain bother you, maybe this list is not for you?  I can only speak for myself: knowing that there are other people who are hurting does not negatively impact me, although it does make me empathize. YMMV.

 

Hello,

 

There have been many posts here recently that are quite serious and possibly deadly -- the poster talks about a death wish.

 

You moderators are in charge of keeping things like that away from the list members, since we cannot possibly help in such crisis situations.

 

This is not a therapy group. although we can give support in a lot of situations.  But we cannot help those who are in such serious trouble.  Why allow that to be put on us? 

 

Please, cannot you not direct such needy people to the right therapy and not have them rely on us for help?  We are not professionals.  And when a poster obviously needs professional help, could you not direct them toward that instead of letting them keep floundering here?

 

Feeling helpless,

 

Helena

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I wonder if you could notice what your brain is telling you when people post about things that you cannot possibly help with.  I wonder if you could notice that helplessness and be willing to have it, without having to change it or have someone else prevent it from being triggered.  I wonder if you could be willing to have this list and your own thoughts about needing to help and your feelings of helplessness exactly as it is.

*posted with warmth and genuine curiosity*

 

Hello,

 

There have been many posts here recently that are quite serious and possibly deadly -- the poster talks about a death wish.

 

You moderators are in charge of keeping things like that away from the list members, since we cannot possibly help in such crisis situations.

 

This is not a therapy group. although we can give support in a lot of situations.  But we cannot help those who are in such serious trouble.  Why allow that to be put on us? 

 

Please, cannot you not direct such needy people to the right therapy and not have them rely on us for help?  We are not professionals.  And when a poster obviously needs professional help, could you not direct them toward that instead of letting them keep floundering here?

 

Feeling helpless,

 

Helena

 

 

 

 

--

[Guest guest]

- Thank you for your thoughtful post.I assume it is in response to Helen'as post. But it makes me wonder how do I know when it's something I "cannot possibly help with." I feel like I can help. Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: castonemsw@...Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 19:08:13 -0500Subject: Re: To the moderators

I wonder if you could notice what your brain is telling you when people post about things that you cannot possibly help with. I wonder if you could notice that helplessness and be willing to have it, without having to change it or have someone else prevent it from being triggered. I wonder if you could be willing to have this list and your own thoughts about needing to help and your feelings of helplessness exactly as it is.

*posted with warmth and genuine curiosity*

Hello,

There have been many posts here recently that are quite serious and possibly deadly -- the poster talks about a death wish.

You moderators are in charge of keeping things like that away from the list members, since we cannot possibly help in such crisis situations.

This is not a therapy group. although we can give support in a lot of situations. But we cannot help those who are in such serious trouble. Why allow that to be put on us?

Please, cannot you not direct such needy people to the right therapy and not have them rely on us for help? We are not professionals. And when a poster obviously needs professional help, could you not direct them toward that instead of letting them keep floundering here?

Feeling helpless,

Helena

--

[Guest guest]

Bill,It seems to me there is a difference between " things we cannot possibly help with " and our brain telling us that we cannot possibly help with this.  In fact " help " itself is a totally brain-created " thing " , right?  We cannot see, hear, smell, taste, or touch " help " , so it must be created by brains and by each individual brain in each specific context.  This would make it a very slippery thing to " know " .

 

- Thank you for your thoughtful post.I assume it is in response to Helen'as post. But it makes me wonder how do I know when it's something I " cannot possibly help with. " I feel like I can help. Bill

 

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: castonemsw@...Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 19:08:13 -0500

Subject: Re: To the moderators

I wonder if you could notice what your brain is telling you when people post about things that you cannot possibly help with.  I wonder if you could notice that helplessness and be willing to have it, without having to change it or have someone else prevent it from being triggered.  I wonder if you could be willing to have this list and your own thoughts about needing to help and your feelings of helplessness exactly as it is.

*posted with warmth and genuine curiosity*

 

Hello,

 

There have been many posts here recently that are quite serious and possibly deadly -- the poster talks about a death wish.

 

You moderators are in charge of keeping things like that away from the list members, since we cannot possibly help in such crisis situations.

 

This is not a therapy group. although we can give support in a lot of situations.  But we cannot help those who are in such serious trouble.  Why allow that to be put on us? 

 

Please, cannot you not direct such needy people to the right therapy and not have them rely on us for help?  We are not professionals.  And when a poster obviously needs professional help, could you not direct them toward that instead of letting them keep floundering here?

 

Feeling helpless,

 

Helena

 

 

 

 

--

--

[Guest guest]

My brain told me I should try toSent via DROID on Verizon Wireless Re: To the moderatorsI wonder if you could notice what your brain is telling you when people post about things that you cannot possibly help with.  I wonder if you could notice that helplessness and be willing to have it, without having to change it or have someone else prevent it from being triggered.  I wonder if you could be willing to have this list and your own thoughts about needing to help and your feelings of helplessness exactly as it is.*posted with warmth and genuine curiosity*  Hello, There have been many posts here recently that are quite serious and possibly deadly -- the poster talks about a death wish. You moderators are in charge of keeping things like that away from the list members, since we cannot possibly help in such crisis situations. This is not a therapy group. although we can give support in a lot of situations.  But we cannot help those who are in such serious trouble.  Why allow that to be put on us?   Please, cannot you not direct such needy people to the right therapy and not have them rely on us for help?  We are not professionals.  And when a poster obviously needs professional help, could you not direct them toward that instead of letting them keep floundering here? Feeling helpless, Helena    -- --

[Guest guest]

Sorry. hit the send key too soon. Starting over.

My brain told me to respond based on what I saw in the desperate post. Seems like everything is a very slippery thing "to know." Somehow I can't imagine everyone just noticing and not doing.

Having said that I admit to being totally confused by your post to me. I see an "msw" in your email address so I'm assuming you are telling me something that I need to understand. Now my brain is telling me I may be jumping to a conclusion about the meaning of msw. Words, words, words, yikes.

It's bedtime in Colorado. Maybe some sleep will help.

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: wcamero@...Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 22:06:07 -0700Subject: Re: To the moderators

My brain told me I should try toSent via DROID on Verizon Wireless Re: To the moderators

I wonder if you could notice what your brain is telling you when people post about things that you cannot possibly help with. I wonder if you could notice that helplessness and be willing to have it, without having to change it or have someone else prevent it from being triggered. I wonder if you could be willing to have this list and your own thoughts about needing to help and your feelings of helplessness exactly as it is.

*posted with warmth and genuine curiosity*

Hello, There have been many posts here recently that are quite serious and possibly deadly -- the poster talks about a death wish. You moderators are in charge of keeping things like that away from the list members, since we cannot possibly help in such crisis situations. This is not a therapy group. although we can give support in a lot of situations. But we cannot help those who are in such serious trouble. Why allow that to be put on us? Please, cannot you not direct such needy people to the right therapy and not have them rely on us for help? We are not professionals. And when a poster obviously needs professional help, could you not direct them toward that instead of letting them keep floundering here? Feeling helpless, Helena

--

--

[Guest guest]

post about things that you cannot possibly help with'

Surely if we did this then no one would ever get any help ever? Ok, so our help is often imperfect but we can stand back and help. Maybe the problem arises when we attach ourselves emotionally to a post -and it's very easy to do. Imagining the life of the poster as if we know them for real. Bill's brain told him he can help - what's wrong with that? He may be wrong - but at least he's had a crack at it - not just shrugging his shoulders. Holding it lightly maybe, is the answer?

Simone

Hello, There have been many posts here recently that are quite serious and possibly deadly -- the poster talks about a death wish. You moderators are in charge of keeping things like that away from the list members, since we cannot possibly help in such crisis situations. This is not a therapy group. although we can give support in a lot of situations. But we cannot help those who are in such serious trouble. Why allow that to be put on us? Please, cannot you not direct such needy people to the right therapy and not have them rely on us for help? We are not professionals. And when a poster obviously needs professional help, could you not direct them toward that instead of letting them keep floundering here? Feeling

helpless, Helena

--

--

[Guest guest]

Bill,It seems to me there is a difference between "things we cannot possibly help with" and our brain telling us that we cannot possibly help with this. In fact "help" itself is a totally brain-created "thing", right? We cannot see, hear, smell, taste, or touch "help", so it must be created by brains and by each individual brain in each specific context. This would make it a very slippery thing to "know". :)I think there is a little bit of an overstatement here, isn't there? I accept that what I may find helpful depends on my reaction just as what I perceive as someone in need of a particular kind of help may be somewhat personal. However if someone throws me a lifeline when

I'm drowning or pushes me out of the way of a car about to crash into me I can't see that help as having been entirely created by my brain or anyone else's!

I imagine the problem here is that we are not able to know exactly what the level of risk/need for help is via e-mail, nor can we tell what sort of intervention is required. As someone whose OCD involves hyperresponsibility and fear of harm coming to others this does bother me from time to time but I have learnt that seeking absolute certainty doesn't work either.

In "real life" I doubt whether an ACT therapist would stand by and watch a client commit suicide would they without intervening to "help" whether the client saw this as help or not?

However, I suppose that anyone participating in this list has to know that the only help available here will be in the form of thoughts and feelings, empathy and suggestions.

S.

[Guest guest]

No, I didn't start the Troyan war. BTW, Troy is my son's name, but he is peace loving and not warlike at all.

People with psychological pain do not bother me. I have a hell of a lot of empathy for them and do my best to help. hit it square on the head when she asked if I was willing to have your own thoughts about needing to help and your feelings of helplessness exactly as it is.

My feelings of being unable to help were overwhelming in the moment I wrote that post and I was not willing to have them. I am willing to have those feelings today. Maybe I can even help.

What does YMMV mean? I hope it's something nice

Helena

Re: To the moderators

You must be the same Helena who started the Troyan war :-)

I am a newbie here and don't speak for anybody, but if people with psychological pain bother you, maybe this list is not for you? I can only speak for myself: knowing that there are other people who are hurting does not negatively impact me, although it does make me empathize. YMMV.

Hello,

There have been many posts here recently that are quite serious and possibly deadly -- the poster talks about a death wish.

You moderators are in charge of keeping things like that away from the list members, since we cannot possibly help in such crisis situations.

This is not a therapy group. although we can give support in a lot of situations. But we cannot help those who are in such serious trouble. Why allow that to be put on us?

Please, cannot you not direct such needy people to the right therapy and not have them rely on us for help? We are not professionals. And when a poster obviously needs professional help, could you not direct them toward that instead of letting them keep floundering here?

Feeling helpless,

Helena

[Guest guest]

Thanks, . You hit the nail on the head.

Helena

Re: To the moderators

I wonder if you could notice what your brain is telling you when people post about things that you cannot possibly help with. I wonder if you could notice that helplessness and be willing to have it, without having to change it or have someone else prevent it from being triggered. I wonder if you could be willing to have this list and your own thoughts about needing to help and your feelings of helplessness exactly as it is.

*posted with warmth and genuine curiosity*

Hello,

There have been many posts here recently that are quite serious and possibly deadly -- the poster talks about a death wish.

You moderators are in charge of keeping things like that away from the list members, since we cannot possibly help in such crisis situations.

This is not a therapy group. although we can give support in a lot of situations. But we cannot help those who are in such serious trouble. Why allow that to be put on us?

Please, cannot you not direct such needy people to the right therapy and not have them rely on us for help? We are not professionals. And when a poster obviously needs professional help, could you not direct them toward that instead of letting them keep floundering here?

Feeling helpless,

Helena

--

[Guest guest]

OK, . I slept on it and I still don't see the distinction between ""things we cannot possibly help with" and our brain telling us that we cannot possibly help with this. " My fallable brain seems to be in charge of choosing between the two. Until I do I won't know if your post is useful to me. But your post did trigger another thought. Taking things lightly is great for the people who can do so and think to do it. For the rest, we need some help from time to time which entails others taking a risk to try to help us as opposed to sitting back and taking a desperate post lightly.

I hope you will post more often as I think you have something to teach us. So please don't take our posts too lightly.

Sincerely, Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: castonemsw@...Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 23:43:23 -0500Subject: Re: To the moderators

Bill,

It seems to me there is a difference between "things we cannot possibly help with" and our brain telling us that we cannot possibly help with this. In fact "help" itself is a totally brain-created "thing", right? We cannot see, hear, smell, taste, or touch "help", so it must be created by brains and by each individual brain in each specific context. This would make it a very slippery thing to "know".

- Thank you for your thoughtful post.I assume it is in response to Helen'as post. But it makes me wonder how do I know when it's something I "cannot possibly help with." I feel like I can help. Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: castonemsw@...Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 19:08:13 -0500Subject: Re: To the moderators

I wonder if you could notice what your brain is telling you when people post about things that you cannot possibly help with. I wonder if you could notice that helplessness and be willing to have it, without having to change it or have someone else prevent it from being triggered. I wonder if you could be willing to have this list and your own thoughts about needing to help and your feelings of helplessness exactly as it is.

*posted with warmth and genuine curiosity*

Hello, There have been many posts here recently that are quite serious and possibly deadly -- the poster talks about a death wish. You moderators are in charge of keeping things like that away from the list members, since we cannot possibly help in such crisis situations. This is not a therapy group. although we can give support in a lot of situations. But we cannot help those who are in such serious trouble. Why allow that to be put on us? Please, cannot you not direct such needy people to the right therapy and not have them rely on us for help? We are not professionals. And when a poster obviously needs professional help, could you not direct them toward that instead of letting them keep floundering here? Feeling helpless, Helena

--

--

[Guest guest]

>

> OK, . I slept on it and I still don't see the

> distinction between " " things we cannot possibly help

> with " and our brain telling us that we cannot possibly

> help with this. "

Bill, ,

Two quibbles about this thread. Or maybe they're

kvetches, I don't know.

First, I wonder whether talk of " brains " is helpful

on an ACT list that does not generally talk in terms of

organs or neurology, but rather in terms of behavioral

psychology. Maybe instead of " brains, " we can say " minds " ?

And maybe instead of " brain-created, " we can say

" verbal, " in the ACT sense of that word?

Second, if what is being said is that " helping " is

slippery just because it involves verbal behavior

(i.e. " can't be touched, smelled " ), I don't agree.

" Helping " is just one of a zillion labels for verbal

behaviors that we are constantly engaged in. So there

is nothing unique about " helping " in that regard.

A further distinction would be needed to support the

claim that in the particular context of this thread,

" helping " is somehow " slippery " in a way that we should

be mindful of so as to achieve some goal or other (as

yet unspecified).

For example, we could talk about the difference between

evaluation and description, the danger of being fused

with a particular story about helping, etc.

So far I'm not seeing any such distinction made clear.

I get the sense from the thread that some sort of warning

is being issued, but what exactly is this warning? Can

we get specific? Otherwise we're just sliding around

on word goo.

- Randy

[Guest guest]

Hi folks,I do apologize for the confusion my post seems to have generated in some of you.  The original post was for Helena, and anyone else who, like me, often feels overwhelmed by the desire to help and the frustration that it seems I cannot " fix " something that I so desperately want to fix.  The second post was an attempt to respond to Bill's question about " how do I know when it's something I cannot possibly help with " .  Those words (something I cannot possibly help with) had been taken directly from Helena's first post and put into my first post in an attempt to help her defuse from those same words.  It appeared to me that those exact words were making her feel bad.  I was not trying to say to anyone that you should not (or should) do something that you hope will be helpful.  

Then, in my second post, what I was trying to say was only that the idea of whether or not " I " can be helpful is individual to each of us.  Luckily, not everyone gets overwhelmed by the same things at the same times.  Also, whether or not any given person reading this list (whether the poster you are responding to or anyone else) finds something written here " helpful " is also individual to each person.   Often, we never really know whether something we have done is helpful to someone else.  

I would never suggest to someone to " only notice and not do " .  I would, however, suggest that we notice and do and that we notice if the doing is more about avoiding an unpleasant feeling or the doing is about moving in the direction of values (how I want to be). 

Now my brain (or mind)  is telling me that I have posted too much and have probably, yet again, muddied the waters and I should delete it.  But that would be an action in service of avoiding how anxious I feel if someone is *not helped* by my post.  So, I will move in the direction of my value of connecting to others and hit send now.

Wishing you all a moment or two of peace today,

 

OK, . I slept on it and I still don't see the distinction between " " things we cannot possibly help with " and our brain telling us that we cannot possibly help with this.  "   My fallable brain seems to be in charge of  choosing between the two. Until I do I won't know if your post is useful to me. But your post did trigger another thought. Taking things lightly is great for the people who can do so and think to do it. For the rest, we need some help from time to time which entails others taking a risk to try to help us as opposed to sitting back and taking a desperate post lightly.

 

I hope you will post more often as I think you have something to teach us. So please don't take our posts too lightly.

 

Sincerely, Bill

 

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: castonemsw@...Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 23:43:23 -0500

Subject: Re: To the moderators

Bill,

It seems to me there is a difference between " things we cannot possibly help with " and our brain telling us that we cannot possibly help with this.  In fact " help " itself is a totally brain-created " thing " , right?  We cannot see, hear, smell, taste, or touch " help " , so it must be created by brains and by each individual brain in each specific context.  This would make it a very slippery thing to " know " .

 

- Thank you for your thoughtful post.I assume it is in response to Helen'as post. But it makes me wonder how do I know when it's something I " cannot possibly help with. " I feel like I can help. Bill

 

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: castonemsw@...Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 19:08:13 -0500

Subject: Re: To the moderators

I wonder if you could notice what your brain is telling you when people post about things that you cannot possibly help with.  I wonder if you could notice that helplessness and be willing to have it, without having to change it or have someone else prevent it from being triggered.  I wonder if you could be willing to have this list and your own thoughts about needing to help and your feelings of helplessness exactly as it is.

*posted with warmth and genuine curiosity*

 

Hello, There have been many posts here recently that are quite serious and possibly deadly -- the poster talks about a death wish. You moderators are in charge of keeping things like that away from the list members, since we cannot possibly help in such crisis situations.

 This is not a therapy group. although we can give support in a lot of situations.  But we cannot help those who are in such serious trouble.  Why allow that to be put on us?   Please, cannot you not direct such needy people to the right therapy and not have them rely on us for help?  We are not professionals.  And when a poster obviously needs professional help, could you not direct them toward that instead of letting them keep floundering here?

 Feeling helpless, Helena    

--

--

--

[Guest guest]

>

> ... Often, we never really know whether something we have

> done is helpful to someone else ...

This post makes sense to me now & seems very helpful to

keep in mind.

I withdraw my quibble and put it back in my quibble drawer,

next to the red socks.

-R.

[Guest guest]

First of all I would like to apologize to Helena for causing her distress, and

thank you for the replies.

Today I was wondering if my pain means something. I am not talking as much to

friends about it, and when I talk about it, I seem to have a hard time believing

that it is going to make a difference. It's like losing an " old friend " . Could

this be progress?

Haakon

[Guest guest]

, thank you for having the courage to hit send! In an email forum such as this, we sometimes cannot know exactly how our words will be perceived or even if they will be understood, so thanks for your explanation, which I think is spot on.

I also want to thank you for not condemning me for trying to place the blame for my feelings of helplessness on someone else (the moderators). You "got" what I was struggling with: My unwillingness to feel helpless while wanting to help so much. Your compassionate response opend my eyes, and I appreciate that.

Helena

Re: To the moderators I wonder if you could notice what your brain is telling you when people post about things that you cannot possibly help with. I wonder if you could notice that helplessness and be willing to have it, without having to change it or have someone else prevent it from being triggered. I wonder if you could be willing to have this list and your own thoughts about needing to help and your feelings of helplessness exactly as it is.

*posted with warmth and genuine curiosity*

Hello, There have been many posts here recently that are quite serious and possibly deadly -- the poster talks about a death wish. You moderators are in charge of keeping things like that away from the list members, since we cannot possibly help in such crisis situations. This is not a therapy group. although we can give support in a lot of situations. But we cannot help those who are in such serious trouble. Why allow that to be put on us? Please, cannot you not direct such needy people to the right therapy and not have them rely on us for help? We are not professionals. And when a poster obviously needs professional help, could you not direct them toward that instead of letting them keep floundering here? Feeling helpless, Helena

--

--

--

[Guest guest]

No need to apologize, Haakon. I am so sorry I let my feelings of helplessness get the best of me.

Yes, I think that pain can feel like a familiar friend and as the pain lessens or you don't let it rule your life, you might very well feel like you are losing an old friend--one you are so used to commiserating with. In that sense, it could be progress. Celebrate that! Find reasons to celebrate every positive moment you have--like when you were able to dance for a few moments (in spite of the pain). The pain may always be there, but you can move forward anyway. On the other hand, the pain may not always be there, so don't expect it to be. Just keep moving!

Helena

re: to the moderators

First of all I would like to apologize to Helena for causing her distress, and thank you for the replies.Today I was wondering if my pain means something. I am not talking as much to friends about it, and when I talk about it, I seem to have a hard time believing that it is going to make a difference. It's like losing an "old friend". Could this be progress?Haakon

[Guest guest]

What?!  I understood 's posts.  I don't understand your hair splitting arguments, Randy.  I don't think this contributes any to the discussion.  I don't give a shit if one uses the word brain or mind or only talk in terms of verbal behavior.  Give me a break!!!

 

>

> OK, . I slept on it and I still don't see the

> distinction between " " things we cannot possibly help

> with " and our brain telling us that we cannot possibly

> help with this. "

Bill, ,

Two quibbles about this thread. Or maybe they're

kvetches, I don't know.

First, I wonder whether talk of " brains " is helpful

on an ACT list that does not generally talk in terms of

organs or neurology, but rather in terms of behavioral

psychology. Maybe instead of " brains, " we can say " minds " ?

And maybe instead of " brain-created, " we can say

" verbal, " in the ACT sense of that word?

Second, if what is being said is that " helping " is

slippery just because it involves verbal behavior

(i.e. " can't be touched, smelled " ), I don't agree.

" Helping " is just one of a zillion labels for verbal

behaviors that we are constantly engaged in. So there

is nothing unique about " helping " in that regard.

A further distinction would be needed to support the

claim that in the particular context of this thread,

" helping " is somehow " slippery " in a way that we should

be mindful of so as to achieve some goal or other (as

yet unspecified).

For example, we could talk about the difference between

evaluation and description, the danger of being fused

with a particular story about helping, etc.

So far I'm not seeing any such distinction made clear.

I get the sense from the thread that some sort of warning

is being issued, but what exactly is this warning? Can

we get specific? Otherwise we're just sliding around

on word goo.

- Randy

[Guest guest]

Good to see you posting today

" This too shall pass " is a good one to remember

>

> First of all I would like to apologize to Helena for causing her distress, and

thank you for the replies.

>

> Today I was wondering if my pain means something. I am not talking as much to

friends about it, and when I talk about it, I seem to have a hard time believing

that it is going to make a difference. It's like losing an " old friend " . Could

this be progress?

>

> Haakon

>

[Guest guest]

>

> What?! I understood 's posts. I don't understand

> your hair splitting arguments, Randy. I don't think this

> contributes any to the discussion. I don't give a shit

> if one uses the word brain or mind or only talk in terms

> of verbal behavior. Give me a break!!!

>

>

I'm feeling sad just now.

- R.

[Guest guest]

As Lennon sang, Whatever Gets You Through the Night. I've just watched the following video -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeuLDRwfOhs -- a very brave man facing mortality in a way most of us have yet to do. Although I don't agree with all of his opinions, Hitchens is and remains a personal hero.Regards,Detlef> > >> > > OK, . I slept on it and I still don't see the> > > distinction between ""things we cannot possibly help> > > with" and our brain telling us that we cannot possibly> > > help with this. "> >> > Bill, ,> >> > Two quibbles about this thread. Or maybe they're> > kvetches, I don't know.> >> > First, I wonder whether talk of "brains" is helpful> > on an ACT list that does not generally talk in terms of> > organs or neurology, but rather in terms of behavioral> > psychology. Maybe instead of "brains," we can say "minds"?> > And maybe instead of "brain-created," we can say> > "verbal," in the ACT sense of that word?> >> > Second, if what is being said is that "helping" is> > slippery just because it involves verbal behavior> > (i.e. "can't be touched, smelled"), I don't agree.> >> > "Helping" is just one of a zillion labels for verbal> > behaviors that we are constantly engaged in. So there> > is nothing unique about "helping" in that regard.> >> > A further distinction would be needed to support the> > claim that in the particular context of this thread,> > "helping" is somehow "slippery" in a way that we should> > be mindful of so as to achieve some goal or other (as> > yet unspecified).> >> > For example, we could talk about the difference between> > evaluation and description, the danger of being fused> > with a particular story about helping, etc.> >> > So far I'm not seeing any such distinction made clear.> > I get the sense from the thread that some sort of warning> > is being issued, but what exactly is this warning? Can> > we get specific? Otherwise we're just sliding around> > on word goo.> >> > - Randy> >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

HaakonI notice in this posting of yours you have used the capital I.

However, if my memory serves me correctly in all your previous emails you have used the small personal i.

This in itself might just be the improvement that will give you a kick start.

Best wishes Ivor

re: to the moderators

First of all I would like to apologize to Helena for causing her distress, and thank you for the replies.Today I was wondering if my pain means something. I am not talking as much to friends about it, and when I talk about it, I seem to have a hard time believing that it is going to make a difference. It's like losing an "old friend". Could this be progress?Haakon

[Guest guest]

> I'm feeling sad just now.

To expand on that, lest it seem a call for help:

I am sad as always when communication seems to break

down. At the same time I can see 's point about

nit-picking. And then I'm back to feeling sad. Maybe

I can make something out of that sadness.

To borrow a quote from 's recent & excellent post

that resonates with me strongly:

" Now my brain (or mind) is telling me that I have posted

too much and have probably, yet again, muddied the waters

and I should delete it. But that would be an action in

service of avoiding how anxious I feel if someone is *not

helped* by my post. So, I will move in the direction of

my value of connecting to others and hit send now. "

Hitting send, taking a break for awhile.

- R.

[Guest guest]

I noticed that, too!

Helena

re: to the moderators

First of all I would like to apologize to Helena for causing her distress, and thank you for the replies.Today I was wondering if my pain means something. I am not talking as much to friends about it, and when I talk about it, I seem to have a hard time believing that it is going to make a difference. It's like losing an "old friend". Could this be progress?Haakon

[Guest guest]

Helena,I hear what you say, and am glad your question was answered by the list (i.e. you were helped when least expecting it). Sorry if my post stood out from the list's culture as unusually harsh or judgmental. 

The picture my word machine has painted was this. A WWII hospital ward, hundreds of wounded people just arrived. Some of them can be helped, some can't. The medics are running around triaging everybody. Some of the more lightly wounded people yell at the nurses and docs to isolate the more heavily wounded, because those can't be helped and seeing those people makes them feel very sad and helpless, without doing anyone any good.

I think in real life, such a lightly wounded person would be yelled at by the doctor, who is the only one qualified to tell whom he/she can help and whom, not. Does my word machine make any sense?

 

No, I didn't start the Troyan war. BTW, Troy is my son's name, but he is peace loving and not warlike at all. 

 

People with psychological pain do not bother me.  I have a hell of a lot of empathy for them and do my best to help.   hit it square on the head when she asked if I was willing to have your own thoughts about needing to help and your feelings of helplessness exactly as it is.

 

My feelings of being unable to help were overwhelming in the moment I wrote that post and I was not willing to have them.  I am willing to have those feelings today.  Maybe I can even help.

 

What does YMMV mean? I hope it's something nice

 

Helena

 

Re: To the moderators

 

You must be the same Helena who started the Troyan war :-)

I am a newbie here and don't speak for anybody, but if people with psychological pain bother you, maybe this list is not for you?  I can only speak for myself: knowing that there are other people who are hurting does not negatively impact me, although it does make me empathize. YMMV.

 

Hello,

 

There have been many posts here recently that are quite serious and possibly deadly -- the poster talks about a death wish.

 

You moderators are in charge of keeping things like that away from the list members, since we cannot possibly help in such crisis situations.

 

This is not a therapy group. although we can give support in a lot of situations.  But we cannot help those who are in such serious trouble.  Why allow that to be put on us? 

Please, cannot you not direct such needy people to the right therapy and not have them rely on us for help?  We are not professionals.  And when a poster obviously needs professional help, could you not direct them toward that instead of letting them keep floundering here?

 

Feeling helpless,

 

Helena