Re: what to do with thoughts

[Guest guest]

I understand what you are saying, but I don't see where I have replied in that

nature...like " it's all in your head "

" How " ? I fully suggested a way to look at it differently, that might help to

shift his perspective..

It certainly helped with me

> >

> > wasn't what I was saying at all, but thanks for your

> > input. he is asking about self-love, and I was trying

> > to show him a different perspective

>

> I think we on this list go back & forth between

> various stances of kvetching, encouraging, sharing,

> suggesting, and so on. There is no one way to post.

> Your post about loving & accepting the image of

> ourselves as a child is a good one.

>

> Myself, I interpreted Helena's post not as so much

> as criticizing your suggestion, but as wondering if

> we sometimes need a " how " to go along with the " what. "

>

> And actually I think we often do need a " how. "

> Something that wrote in a book for

> therapists comes to mind on this point; his context

> was slightly different, but I think his point works

> here as well:

>

> " Mere awareness that something, though frightening,

> is begnign doesn't seem sufficient [for change].

> It's entirely common for people with agoraphobia

> to know that their fears are overblown, for those

> with alcoholism to know they need to stop drinking,

> and for individuals struggling with depression to

> know they must get upo and meet the day. "

>

> So indeed, ACT (and other approaches) can help us

> by suggesting various " hows " for getting unstuck

> when " what " seems clear but also " impossible. "

>

> - R.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I understand what you are saying, but I don't see

> where I have replied in that nature...like " it's

> all in your head "

If you are curious about what I meant, here are my thoughts more

fully. They are not a criticism of your post, but a general

reflection on why some " how " posts seem more effective than others.

I think it has to do with the difference between " telling " and

" pointing. "

TELLING =

Do X and Y the way I tell you to and you will get Z.

POINTING =

What if ...?

Here is what I have found in my experience ...

If you try X, what might happen?

No one knows your own experience but you ...

To make it a little less algebraic, I think we sometimes help

others more by sharing our own experience & how it has worked for

us in what seems a similar but not identical situation, than by

giving explicit instructions with an explicit outcome that is

supposed to result.

Curiosity rather than certainty.

A recipe, sure - but one that might bake a cake or a cinnamon

cookie or something unknown.

Remember, when skilled meditation teachers teach mindfulness, they

don't say " Sit and watch your breath - can you become mindful? " and

still less do they say " Sit and watch your breath - can you become

enlightened? "

Rather, they seem to say things more like " Sit and watch your

breath and see what happens. " And " Sitting and watching your breath

is good no matter what happens. "

They don't lay an expectation down because they know that is

counterproductive.

These are just general thoughts that I've developed in my own quest

to post more skillfully. I often don't follow them as I would like;

and beyond that, they don't hold for all posts anyway. Some posts

are meant just as sharing, others are just compassion, others are

just " Oops " because sometimes we go " Oops. "

- R.

[Guest guest]

>

> This is what I call " response by smothering the

> question. " Good; even excellent. But not directly

> responsive.

Hi Helena,

I have been trying to puzzle out what you mean by the above. I'm

just not getting it.

My intent in responding to vcferrara was to explain what I had

meant in a previous post. I may have done so badly. It may have

seemed that my explanation was indirect or tangential in some

way. But I was doing the best I could to be clear about where I

was coming from, even if it meant bringing up ideas that weren't

in the original thread.

I don't think you would really object to people explaining

themselves even if they wander a bit in doing so. So you must

have meant something else in using such a strong word as

" smothering. " Can you help me out?

- R.

[Guest guest]

Bruce, my email is vcferry@..., can you send me an email with yours?

> > >

> > > i have thought about it a little now, and it is true that i am

> > trying not to feel anxiety. but how do i respond in the situation? i

> > am going back to work tomorrow, and i am not looking forward to it.

> > >

> > > i always try to come across as cool, and when i can't ,i beat

> > myself up. being cool feels like my life raft, stupid as it may

> > sound. i feel a strong resistance when i think about letting others

> > see my anxiety. and it makes me angry, it feels like THEY are doing

> > it to me.

> > >

> > > how do i know if i am willing? i understand that i need lots of

> > training. willing to feel one's anxiety is not the same as being

> > totally subdued, is it? that's the primary source of resistance, i

> > guess.

> > >

> > > when i think about it, nothing has ever made me as angry as when

> > someone tells me to accept myself as i am.

> > >

> > > thanks for the concern, kaivey. and thanks to (vcferrara? forgot

> > your first name) for some really good stuff.

> > >

> > > haakon

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Helena, I apologize for reacting towards your post, I have just felt a bit

attacked in the past for bringing other methods into fold...when I quickly read

your response, I just reacted, and wrote something out of that energy...

I have dealt with unbelievable amounts of anxiety in my life, picked up a lot of

helpful and unhelpful things along the way...so I feel that I should share it in

support of others..

That is my only intention, even when it may or may not come out in a manner that

is actually helpful

This is why my posts tend to bring up a method of questioning your thoughts,

from the work of Byron ...it helped me to really untangle all my beliefs

about fear/anxiety itself, that were keeping the fear of anxiety/panic in

place...what I was believing caused fear/anxiety to be a threat to my being, and

therefore my mind accordingly treated it so...like it is supposed to

It can be very very hard for people to just be mindful of their anxiety without

getting caught up in it, to just let it be a 'passenger on the bus' so to

say...and it would be a real shame to never question these underlying erroneous

beliefs we have about our conditions...in my experience, these underlying

beliefs are what keep the house of cards in place...

Beliefs are the fuel for the thoughts, and it's the reason the thoughts are

there...anxiety about things doesn't just come out of nowhere...

This is only my experience with anxiety, and I don't know if it parlays into

other emotional issues..

> > >

> > > i have thought about it a little now, and it is true that i am trying not

to feel anxiety. but how do i respond in the situation? i am going back to work

tomorrow, and i am not looking forward to it.

> > >

> > > i always try to come across as cool, and when i can't ,i beat myself up.

being cool feels like my life raft, stupid as it may sound. i feel a strong

resistance when i think about letting others see my anxiety. and it makes me

angry, it feels like THEY are doing it to me.

> > >

> > > how do i know if i am willing? i understand that i need lots of training.

willing to feel one's anxiety is not the same as being totally subdued, is it?

that's the primary source of resistance, i guess.

> > >

> > > when i think about it, nothing has ever made me as angry as when someone

tells me to accept myself as i am.

> > >

> > > thanks for the concern, kaivey . and thanks to ( vcferrara ? forgot your

first name) for some really good stuff.

> > >

> > > haakon

> >

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[Guest guest]

And Thank You

I agree 100% on your view of ACT...it can be a tremendously empowering to know

that you can still move on with your life regardless of the thoughts and

feelings that come up..

All of these methods intentions are generally to get to the same

goal...emotional freedom

> > > >

> > > > i have thought about it a little now, and it is true that i am trying

not to feel anxiety. but how do i respond in the situation? i am going back to

work tomorrow, and i am not looking forward to it.

> > > >

> > > > i always try to come across as cool, and when i can't ,i beat myself up.

being cool feels like my life raft, stupid as it may sound. i feel a strong

resistance when i think about letting others see my anxiety. and it makes me

angry, it feels like THEY are doing it to me.

> > > >

> > > > how do i know if i am willing? i understand that i need lots of

training. willing to feel one's anxiety is not the same as being totally

subdued, is it? that's the primary source of resistance, i guess.

> > > >

> > > > when i think about it, nothing has ever made me as angry as when someone

tells me to accept myself as i am.

> > > >

> > > > thanks for the concern, kaivey . and thanks to ( vcferrara ? forgot your

first name) for some really good stuff.

> > > >

> > > > haakon

> > >

> > > Recent Activity:

> > >

> > > • New Members 6

> > >

> > >

> > > Visit Your Group

> > > For other ACT materials and list serves see www . contextualpsychology

..org

> > >

> > > If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may

> > > unsubscribe by sending an email to

> > > ACT_for_the_Public- unsubscribe @ yahoogroups .com

> > > Yahoo! Groups

> > > Switch to: Text-Only , Daily Digest • Unsubscribe

• Terms of Use

> > >

> > >

> > > .

> > >

> >

>