Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Hi Sara,Depending on the specific case and causes, I find herbs such as Crataegus, Viscum, Viburnum opulus, Tilia, Valeriana, Aveena, Scut lat, Verbena etc very effective. Consider stress, diet, liver function, hormonal imbalances etc...Good luck!e-- e De Block, BSc (Hons), MNIMH Medical Herbalist t: 07821 774286 e: kris@... w: www.kristinedeblock.co.uk To: ukherbal-list From: sara@...Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:39:06 +0000Subject: Hypertension Hi all, It may be one of those simple things, but I've never had much success with treating hypertension and have developed a bit of a mental block about doing so. I would really appreciate some tried and tested formulae as I've got someone coming next week and feel I need to get over this blockage that I've got! Any advice much appreciated, as always. Sara Southgate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Hi Sara not ususally too difficult, as long as they are reasonably compliant, and prepared to address their diet and stress levels. Even without herbs, yoga - savasana, corpse posture- alone can have very effective BP lowering effects, so with herbs added........ First - don't be stressed yourself, the patient will pick up on it. (sorry if this is obvious). Look at their lifestyle and diet - ways of dealing with stress, sufficient fish oils, B vitamins and folic acid,soluble fibre, magnesium (Mg important for vessel wall and skeletal muscle relaxation) (lots of green veg and red fruit), exercise? (obviously this needs to be appropriate). Then you've got a heap of effective herbs to choose from. I first think of crataegus and achillea, and then add stuff like Vib op, Tilia , Scutt, Zanthox berry, moving on to Passiflora, Valerian, sometimes Gingko, etc, etc . Withania is very nice if they're worn out and not sleeping, also would be good if they are on beta blockers and having trouble with ED. And of course lashings of Tarax fol if they aren't already taking diuretics. and Gingko to support the kidneys if they are. Lots of Tilia tea. Yum. And if they are elderly, go in gently, lowering the BP needs to happen slowly or you may get inadequate blood to the brain and generate drop attacks. In this situation I go easy on the Vib op, and always use Zanthox. hope this helps Sally Owen > Hi all, > > It may be one of those simple things, but I've never had much > success with treating hypertension and have developed a bit of a > mental block about doing so. I would really appreciate some tried > and tested formulae as I've got someone coming next week and feel I > need to get over this blockage that I've got! > > Any advice much appreciated, as always. > > Sara Southgate > > > > ------------------------------------ > > List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Hi Sally,It would be great if you could elaborate on how does Ginkgo support kidneys when patients use orthodox diuretics? I am not familiar with any trophorestorative action of Ginkgo on kidneys, apart from improving the micro circulation? Thanks > Hi all, > > It may be one of those simple things, but I've never had much > success with treating hypertension and have developed a bit of a > mental block about doing so. I would really appreciate some tried > and tested formulae as I've got someone coming next week and feel I > need to get over this blockage that I've got! > > Any advice much appreciated, as always. > > Sara Southgate > > > > ------------------------------------ > > List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 HiI got the idea from an article in The European Herbal Journal on the use of Gingko to support the microcirculation of the brain and kidney in diabetes. I'm sorry, I can't remember the author at the moment. SallyHi Sally,It would be great if you could elaborate on how does Ginkgo support kidneys when patients use orthodox diuretics? I am not familiar with any trophorestorative action of Ginkgo on kidneys, apart from improving the micro circulation? Thanks> Hi all,>> It may be one of those simple things, but I've never had much > success with treating hypertension and have developed a bit of a > mental block about doing so. I would really appreciate some tried > and tested formulae as I've got someone coming next week and feel I > need to get over this blockage that I've got!>> Any advice much appreciated, as always.>> Sara Southgate>>>> ------------------------------------>> List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Hi Sally, I can see the rational for using Ginkgo in diabetic damage to kidneys which is of vascular nature, but I think the nature of the damage due to orthodox diuretics is more complex as it is really the mechanism of filtration that suffers (hence kidney failure in the long term). I am not sure if Ginkgo could help with that but was hoping you could shed new light on that.It is in no way a criticism of what you said, most people would benefit from Ginkgo anyway.Thanks> Hi all,>> It may be one of those simple things, but I've never had much > success with treating hypertension and have developed a bit of a > mental block about doing so. I would really appreciate some tried > and tested formulae as I've got someone coming next week and feel I > need to get over this blockage that I've got!>> Any advice much appreciated, as always.>> Sara Southgate>>>> ------------------------------------>> List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Do be thorough! One client I had with sky high BP (>200/~120) not responding to any dosages of modern hypertensive drugs had a severe food allergy. Once we worked on this BP dropped like a stone to normal levels in about 2-3 months. Client could then maintain herb and drug free!Look for the underlying issues.LorraineLorraine Hodgkinson MNIMH MRCHMHERBS AND HELPERS6, Butts Fold, Cockermouth,Cumbria, CA13 9HY. UK.Tel: +44 (0) 1900 826392Mobile: 07761 489838 (O2)www.herbalmedicineuk.comOn 25 Nov 2011, at 09:39, "Sara Southgate" wrote: Hi all, It may be one of those simple things, but I've never had much success with treating hypertension and have developed a bit of a mental block about doing so. I would really appreciate some tried and tested formulae as I've got someone coming next week and feel I need to get over this blockage that I've got! Any advice much appreciated, as always. Sara Southgate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 I don't know, Herb action does tend to be highly complex and synergistic, as does the body. On the one hand good circulation supports any tissue, on the other, the Chinese use Gingko for asthma, and many of our herbs that beneficially affect lung tissue, eg plantago, verbascum (IIRC) and ,solidago, also have a beneficial effect on kidney tissue. They are both tissues characterised by large amounts of epithelial and parenchymal tissue - perhaps this is the key to this interesting link?I will try to find the original article to see what if the author had any input on actions other than vascular. This studySener, G. et al., 2007. Ginkgo biloba extract protects against mercury(II)-induced oxidative tissue damage in rats. Food and Chemical Toxicology: An International Journal Published for the British Industrial Biological Research Association, 45(4), 543-550. suggests that the general antioxidative effect of Gingko is key in protecting tissuesSally OwenHi Sally, I can see the rational for using Ginkgo in diabetic damage to kidneys which is of vascular nature, but I think the nature of the damage due to orthodox diuretics is more complex as it is really the mechanism of filtration that suffers (hence kidney failure in the long term). I am not sure if Ginkgo could help with that but was hoping you could shed new light on that.It is in no way a criticism of what you said, most people would benefit from Ginkgo anyway.Thanks> Hi all,>> It may be one of those simple things, but I've never had much > success with treating hypertension and have developed a bit of a > mental block about doing so. I would really appreciate some tried > and tested formulae as I've got someone coming next week and feel I > need to get over this blockage that I've got!>> Any advice much appreciated, as always.>> Sara Southgate>>>> ------------------------------------>> List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 is it not the nuts of gingko that are used for asthma in chinese medicine? Ive never seen any for sale though! regards ,annette Re: Hypertension I don't know, Herb action does tend to be highly complex and synergistic, as does the body. On the one hand good circulation supports any tissue, on the other, the Chinese use Gingko for asthma, and many of our herbs that beneficially affect lung tissue, eg plantago, verbascum (IIRC) and ,solidago, also have a beneficial effect on kidney tissue. They are both tissues characterised by large amounts of epithelial and parenchymal tissue - perhaps this is the key to this interesting link? I will try to find the original article to see what if the author had any input on actions other than vascular. This study Sener, G. et al., 2007. Ginkgo biloba extract protects against mercury(II)-induced oxidative tissue damage in rats. Food and Chemical Toxicology: An International Journal Published for the British Industrial Biological Research Association, 45(4), 543-550. suggests that the general antioxidative effect of Gingko is key in protecting tissues Sally Owen Hi Sally, I can see the rational for using Ginkgo in diabetic damage to kidneys which is of vascular nature, but I think the nature of the damage due to orthodox diuretics is more complex as it is really the mechanism of filtration that suffers (hence kidney failure in the long term). I am not sure if Ginkgo could help with that but was hoping you could shed new light on that. It is in no way a criticism of what you said, most people would benefit from Ginkgo anyway. Thanks > Hi all,>> It may be one of those simple things, but I've never had much > success with treating hypertension and have developed a bit of a > mental block about doing so. I would really appreciate some tried > and tested formulae as I've got someone coming next week and feel I > need to get over this blockage that I've got!>> Any advice much appreciated, as always.>> Sara Southgate>>>> ------------------------------------>> List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Working via the lungs is a very relevant approach and I think deeply recognised in Physiomedicalism. Certainly from a Chinese perspective relieving stagnation of Qi and phlegm in the lung using something like this would be employed.LorraineLorraine Hodgkinson MNIMH MRCHMHERBS AND HELPERS6, Butts Fold, Cockermouth,Cumbria, CA13 9HY. UK.Tel: +44 (0) 1900 826392Mobile: 07761 489838 (O2)www.herbalmedicineuk.comOn 29 Nov 2011, at 11:36, Sally Owen wrote: I don't know, Herb action does tend to be highly complex and synergistic, as does the body. On the one hand good circulation supports any tissue, on the other, the Chinese use Gingko for asthma, and many of our herbs that beneficially affect lung tissue, eg plantago, verbascum (IIRC) and ,solidago, also have a beneficial effect on kidney tissue. They are both tissues characterised by large amounts of epithelial and parenchymal tissue - perhaps this is the key to this interesting link?I will try to find the original article to see what if the author had any input on actions other than vascular. This studySener, G. et al., 2007. Ginkgo biloba extract protects against mercury(II)-induced oxidative tissue damage in rats. Food and Chemical Toxicology: An International Journal Published for the British Industrial Biological Research Association, 45(4), 543-550. suggests that the general antioxidative effect of Gingko is key in protecting tissuesSally OwenHi Sally, I can see the rational for using Ginkgo in diabetic damage to kidneys which is of vascular nature, but I think the nature of the damage due to orthodox diuretics is more complex as it is really the mechanism of filtration that suffers (hence kidney failure in the long term). I am not sure if Ginkgo could help with that but was hoping you could shed new light on that.It is in no way a criticism of what you said, most people would benefit from Ginkgo anyway.Thanks> Hi all,>> It may be one of those simple things, but I've never had much > success with treating hypertension and have developed a bit of a > mental block about doing so. I would really appreciate some tried > and tested formulae as I've got someone coming next week and feel I > need to get over this blockage that I've got!>> Any advice much appreciated, as always.>> Sara Southgate>>>> ------------------------------------>> List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 "G. biloba used in this study comes as an extract from the leaves of the plant"S is it not the nuts of gingko that are used for asthma in chinese medicine? Ive never seen any for sale though!regards ,annette----- This studySener, G. et al., 2007. Ginkgo biloba extract protects against mercury(II)-induced oxidative tissue damage in rats. Food and Chemical Toxicology: An International Journal Published for the British Industrial Biological Research Association, 45(4), 543-550. suggests that the general antioxidative effect of Gingko is key in protecting tissues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Sorry, that was a bit abrupt.... yes, I believe so, but often there are related actions for different parts of the same plant. There is so much to learn in our field, that I think sometimes it helps to think outside the box just a little.Studying history I've noticed that major upheavals, not always for the best, tend to come when general thinking becomes too rigid. eg Paracelsus' reaction to Galenic medicine. Better I think to constantly challenge the boundaries of our knowledge.Of course being open to expanding our knowledge puts us in the situation of having to admit what we doesn't know already, eg my gaffe on serotonin, but I am very glad to have had the push to explore this area further.As Ruskin said, "To know anything really well involves a profound sensation of ignorance" and Aristotle... "The more you know, the more you know you don't know" ;-) atbSally "G. biloba used in this study comes as an extract from the leaves of the plant"S is it not the nuts of gingko that are used for asthma in chinese medicine? Ive never seen any for sale though!regards ,annette----- This studySener, G. et al., 2007. Ginkgo biloba extract protects against mercury(II)-induced oxidative tissue damage in rats. Food and Chemical Toxicology: An International Journal Published for the British Industrial Biological Research Association, 45(4), 543-550. suggests that the general antioxidative effect of Gingko is key in protecting tissues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Hi sally cant access the study from your link but is that specifically relating to asthma or just the general benefit on micro circulation? Simon Mills mentions the use of the nuts in asthma traditionally in TCM in " priciples and practice of Phytotherapy " although it sounds like leaves have replaced such traditional useage. maybe TCM listers could tell us a bit more? regards ,annette Re: Hypertension "G. biloba used in this study comes as an extract from the leaves of the plant" S is it not the nuts of gingko that are used for asthma in chinese medicine? Ive never seen any for sale though! regards ,annette ----- This study Sener, G. et al., 2007. Ginkgo biloba extract protects against mercury(II)-induced oxidative tissue damage in rats. Food and Chemical Toxicology: An International Journal Published for the British Industrial Biological Research Association, 45(4), 543-550. suggests that the general antioxidative effect of Gingko is key in protecting tissues No virus found in this message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 10.0.1411 / Virus Database: 2092/4040 - Release Date: 11/26/11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Hi Annette,no, I'm afraid it's a rather unpleasant study on rats to assess the benefit of Gingko leaf extract in protecting various organ tissues against artificially induced oxidative stress. So neither asthma or micro circulation. I only introduced the subject of asthma to suggest a tissue level action of gingko, and think that this paper supports my hypothesis that G has a more general action.(There's a distinct lack of ethically acceptable clinical studies on herbal medicine - funding and methodology issues) (Much of the research you will find in Mills and Bone is similarly unpleasant, but that's a whole other ball game....) (If you are interested in the paper, it's not a link, it's the citation for the paper. If you copy and paste it into your google search box, you should be able to find the abstract.)Must go, work to do,atbSallyHi sallycant access the study from your link but is that specifically relating to asthma or just the general benefit on micro circulation?Simon Mills mentions the use of the nuts in asthma traditionally in TCM in " priciples and practice of Phytotherapy " although it sounds like leaves have replaced such traditional useage. maybe TCM listers could tell us a bit more?regards ,annette Re: Hypertension"G. biloba used in this study comes as an extract from the leaves of the plant"S is it not the nuts of gingko that are used for asthma in chinese medicine? Ive never seen any for sale though!regards ,annette----- This studySener, G. et al., 2007. Ginkgo biloba extract protects against mercury(II)-induced oxidative tissue damage in rats. Food and Chemical Toxicology: An International Journal Published for the British Industrial Biological Research Association, 45(4), 543-550. suggests that the general antioxidative effect of Gingko is key in protecting tissuesNo virus found in this message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 10.0.1411 / Virus Database: 2092/4040 - Release Date: 11/26/11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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