Re: paradox

[Guest guest]

Oh Alice, all,

Are you suggesting or stating?

>As long as we live in the manifest world, we have to have an ego.

>

>The ego is the center of consciousness.

Consciousness, if defined to be the experience of itself and objects,

must be centered on the construct, ego, by which this concept is

understandable.

Whereas, certain persons of the East-ur persuasion might remark,

(Nagarjuna comes to mind, word play intended,) that this formulation

tells us nothing of interest about consciousness because you've

defined ego as being necessary for the sake of defining consciousness

ONLY in terms of ego.

You note the paradox but I wonder if you follow the " agnostic

gnostic " to its actual paradox. ...ha! where it should deeply disturb!

I would offer, as I am want to do, that: paradoxes are TRULY

paradoxical. The point of a paradox, say a koan or the special class

of Sufic stories, is to get over the conceptualizations which

prettify the paradox. imo

Likewise, as points out, meditation, leads beyond to unity;

except: completely beyond the concept ONE, ALL, EVERYTHING. (I've

always liked the all-in-all paradox.)

Rumi: " What is essential is not important " .

This is a very very hard Sufi koan. It does not lead one to the other

side of its advanced, (5-6-7) levels to comfort or satisfaction or

'conceptual generosity'. Thus it cannot be 'understood'. :-)

***

I am unable to be hard on my students as my teachers were with me.

(Reminding me of the dream in which three of them, personified, were

sitting around a table, drawing straws!) But, I am at least charged

to help enable the conditions where unnecessary concepts are

enlightened and shown the door.

As for, " How is it possible not to believe something you have

experienced " (Toni,) Lilly waggishly said, " My beliefs are

unbelievable! "

Experience is extremely short lived. Because it is seemingly so

believable, it can outlive its real time, the time of the experience

itself. Think about this. Again, I spend a great deal of initial time

helping people experience how unreliable their experience is. The

obvious point is: there's nothing about experience that requires it

to be veracious except in the ontic sense. Its occurrence is 'true,'

it's ramification may not be, is usually not true. If this weren't

the case none of us would need to find our Yoga.

Hey, there must be some reason we feel at times misperceived.

***

After meditation there are the dishes to do. Yes, my experiment doing

dishes in non-dual mode was very wet, slippery and expensive.

My own experience does not suggest that the ego is the center of

consciousness when it is not so.

I've spelled this out many times previously:

1

1+1

1+1 and 1

! distinctions no longer distinctive

....adds up to 4, okay...Dr. Jung.

***

agnostic gnosis is laser like, just as is the verbedness of the

archetype...the only thing left to do is to do!

***

And, jeezum, by all means be sensitive to the horrors of the world!

Diligence! Sorrow! Love!

regards,

in Clepheland

what you must have

what you search everywhere for

is in the still glance of your lover

be that instant of silence

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/23/2005 10:10:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,

caspicuzza@... writes:

So how do you define consciousness, . (and could you pretent you're

explaining it to a twelve-year-old?)

Carol

Better yet,,could you perhaps adhere to a few colloquial parameters expounded

by Mark Twain's " Literary Offenses of Fenimore " LOL!

http://www.pbs.org/marktwain/learnmore/writings_fenimore.html

The Mutt