Guest guest Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Hi I have had considerable success with this condition over the years. It is a very common cause of infertility, but treatment may not mean px becomes pregnant. Several things first of all - a few years ago NIMH PTB ran a seminar (before your time!) on woman's health. Given by Carol . Carol gave a lecture on this to NIMH conference, back in about 1996 or 1998. Not absolutely 100% certain of date. It then appeared as an article in the old European Journal (possibly copies still available at NIMH office). I'll dig mine out and see date. Fast forward to 2007 ish. We ran a seminar on woman's health and this again was featured as part of the day. Those notes are available from NIMH office. Carol wrote a book but I think it's out of print, sorry. Basically, you need to balance hormones, improve immune system, improve circulation to and drainage from pelvis, relieve pain, restore normal cycle, astringe tissues, general cleansing. There is a 4 degree scale relating to amount of scarring in tubes, and pelvis area. In reality this does not relate directly to infertility. Worst case is almost certainly infertile, but the same level of infertility can occur with even small degrees of endometrial tissue. Herbs: Vitex, Chamaelirium, Dioscorea, Alchemilla vulg, Achillea, Hamamelis, Berberis aquifolium, Anemone p, Viburnum op and pruni, Echinacea, Verbena, Tarax rad, Carduus, Hydrastis and loads more. When you look into this you'll find interesting things - endometrial tissue can be found anywhere in the body, and at some distance from pelvis, but it behaves as other endometrial tissue and responds to hormones e.g. women get nosebleeds at time of period, bleeding into eye. I even discovered that there were 3 cases of endometriosis in men in Australia! You can make a huge difference to her life. Whether she gets pregnant or not is uncertain. Some of my patients have and some haven't. I'll get back to you with date of Journal. best wishes > > I have not come across this condition before but saw a patient (42) yesterday who has been diagnosed with this condition. She has been trying to get pregnant for 2 years. > > She had a child 3.5 years ago with an emergency C section that had to be enlarged and I wonder if this is when endometrial tissue entered the womb walls. She conceived that baby after 2 months. She has had her tubes checked and even put on clomid even though she has had evidence of ovulation and regular periods of 31 days. Stopped clomid after 2 months and has for the last 12 months tried to lose weight (had a BMI of 31 still overweight but not sure of current BMI) and get fitter and change to healthy diet (following a diet for endometriosis), and has done well. > > I am wondering if herbs for endometriosis would be effective in this condition or if anyone has treated this before and has any advice. > > many thanks Dore > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 is this the same as endometriosis as the treatment sounds the same strategy? regards ,annette Re: Andometriosis Hi I have had considerable success with this condition over the years. It is a very common cause of infertility, but treatment may not mean px becomes pregnant.Several things first of all - a few years ago NIMH PTB ran a seminar (before your time!) on woman's health. Given by Carol . Carol gave a lecture on this to NIMH conference, back in about 1996 or 1998. Not absolutely 100% certain of date. It then appeared as an article in the old European Journal (possibly copies still available at NIMH office). I'll dig mine out and see date. Fast forward to 2007 ish. We ran a seminar on woman's health and this again was featured as part of the day. Those notes are available from NIMH office.Carol wrote a book but I think it's out of print, sorry. Basically, you need to balance hormones, improve immune system, improve circulation to and drainage from pelvis, relieve pain, restore normal cycle, astringe tissues, general cleansing. There is a 4 degree scale relating to amount of scarring in tubes, and pelvis area. In reality this does not relate directly to infertility. Worst case is almost certainly infertile, but the same level of infertility can occur with even small degrees of endometrial tissue.Herbs: Vitex, Chamaelirium, Dioscorea, Alchemilla vulg, Achillea, Hamamelis, Berberis aquifolium, Anemone p, Viburnum op and pruni, Echinacea, Verbena, Tarax rad, Carduus, Hydrastis and loads more. When you look into this you'll find interesting things - endometrial tissue can be found anywhere in the body, and at some distance from pelvis, but it behaves as other endometrial tissue and responds to hormones e.g. women get nosebleeds at time of period, bleeding into eye. I even discovered that there were 3 cases of endometriosis in men in Australia! You can make a huge difference to her life. Whether she gets pregnant or not is uncertain. Some of my patients have and some haven't. I'll get back to you with date of Journal. best wishes >> I have not come across this condition before but saw a patient (42) yesterday who has been diagnosed with this condition. She has been trying to get pregnant for 2 years.> > She had a child 3.5 years ago with an emergency C section that had to be enlarged and I wonder if this is when endometrial tissue entered the womb walls. She conceived that baby after 2 months. She has had her tubes checked and even put on clomid even though she has had evidence of ovulation and regular periods of 31 days. Stopped clomid after 2 months and has for the last 12 months tried to lose weight (had a BMI of 31 still overweight but not sure of current BMI) and get fitter and change to healthy diet (following a diet for endometriosis), and has done well.> > I am wondering if herbs for endometriosis would be effective in this condition or if anyone has treated this before and has any advice.> > many thanks Dore> No virus found in this message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 10.0.1411 / Virus Database: 2092/4022 - Release Date: 11/17/11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 As I understand it the endometrial tissue invades the muscle of the womb whereas in endometriosis the tissue moves outside the womb. Some reports say that ando does not respond as well to hormonal treatments as endo so I wondered if anyone had seen this condition specifically. Re: Andometriosis Hi I have had considerable success with this condition over the years. It is a very common cause of infertility, but treatment may not mean px becomes pregnant.Several things first of all - a few years ago NIMH PTB ran a seminar (before your time!) on woman's health. Given by Carol . Carol gave a lecture on this to NIMH conference, back in about 1996 or 1998. Not absolutely 100% certain of date. It then appeared as an article in the old European Journal (possibly copies still available at NIMH office). I'll dig mine out and see date. Fast forward to 2007 ish. We ran a seminar on woman's health and this again was featured as part of the day. Those notes are available from NIMH office.Carol wrote a book but I think it's out of print, sorry. Basically, you need to balance hormones, improve immune system, improve circulation to and drainage from pelvis, relieve pain, restore normal cycle, astringe tissues, general cleansing. There is a 4 degree scale relating to amount of scarring in tubes, and pelvis area. In reality this does not relate directly to infertility. Worst case is almost certainly infertile, but the same level of infertility can occur with even small degrees of endometrial tissue.Herbs: Vitex, Chamaelirium, Dioscorea, Alchemilla vulg, Achillea, Hamamelis, Berberis aquifolium, Anemone p, Viburnum op and pruni, Echinacea, Verbena, Tarax rad, Carduus, Hydrastis and loads more. When you look into this you'll find interesting things - endometrial tissue can be found anywhere in the body, and at some distance from pelvis, but it behaves as other endometrial tissue and responds to hormones e.g. women get nosebleeds at time of period, bleeding into eye. I even discovered that there were 3 cases of endometriosis in men in Australia! You can make a huge difference to her life. Whether she gets pregnant or not is uncertain. Some of my patients have and some haven't. I'll get back to you with date of Journal. best wishes >> I have not come across this condition before but saw a patient (42) yesterday who has been diagnosed with this condition. She has been trying to get pregnant for 2 years.> > She had a child 3.5 years ago with an emergency C section that had to be enlarged and I wonder if this is when endometrial tissue entered the womb walls. She conceived that baby after 2 months. She has had her tubes checked and even put on clomid even though she has had evidence of ovulation and regular periods of 31 days. Stopped clomid after 2 months and has for the last 12 months tried to lose weight (had a BMI of 31 still overweight but not sure of current BMI) and get fitter and change to healthy diet (following a diet for endometriosis), and has done well.> > I am wondering if herbs for endometriosis would be effective in this condition or if anyone has treated this before and has any advice.> > many thanks Dore> No virus found in this message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 10.0.1411 / Virus Database: 2092/4022 - Release Date: 11/17/11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 Sorry Annette and I read that as a typo in subject line. Replied in haste as was busy doing something else (obviously shouldn't multi-task). Have now done quick online search to examine my typo situation. Treatment strategy to my mind would follow same protocols. Clean up pelvis, reduce inflammation, and astringe tissues. Probably would have more astringent leanings as in the case of fibroids. I'd still work on balancing hormones as anything with an infertility component would indicate something hormonal going on. Uterine tissue responds to hormones. We all see patients every day with conditions we have little or no experience of, but we don't turn them away. 20 or so years ago we didn't know we were treating ME/CFS or fibromyalgia - we just saw people who had severe fatigue etc. But we treated them and they got better. It's why we treat the person who has the disease or condition and not the disease or condition. If it was me, I'd start with cleansing, astringing, depending on individuals patients symptoms and presentation, general health and so on. I was always taught to treat the person in front of me. I might well add castor oil packs to clear scar tissue or abnormal tissue in uterine wall. I can't say I've seen anyone with this condition, but that might be because they haven't been diagnosed with it thru usual methods. From what I've seen online it can co-exist with endometriosis, so looks like variant imho - back to treating the person who has the condition rather than the condition. Immune system not dealing with abnormal cell growth, lymphatics not clearing away rubbish, circulation impaired probably and so on. Probably what all herbal treatment boils down to - ensure good food/fuel is put into the system, that it is delivered by good circulatory system to where it is needed, that all debris is cleared away efficiently, that immune system deals with anything out of the ordinary etc. all the best > > > > I have not come across this condition before but saw a patient (42) yesterday who has been diagnosed with this condition. She has been trying to get pregnant for 2 years. > > > > She had a child 3.5 years ago with an emergency C section that had to be enlarged and I wonder if this is when endometrial tissue entered the womb walls. She conceived that baby after 2 months. She has had her tubes checked and even put on clomid even though she has had evidence of ovulation and regular periods of 31 days. Stopped clomid after 2 months and has for the last 12 months tried to lose weight (had a BMI of 31 still overweight but not sure of current BMI) and get fitter and change to healthy diet (following a diet for endometriosis), and has done well. > > > > I am wondering if herbs for endometriosis would be effective in this condition or if anyone has treated this before and has any advice. > > > > many thanks Dore > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1411 / Virus Database: 2092/4022 - Release Date: 11/17/11 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Yes that is what I intend to do unless someone has treated this condition specifically and has some other advice (and thanks I do have the documents you suggested rearding endometriosis) so useful to have your thoughts on that. Re: Andometriosis Sorry Annette and I read that as a typo in subject line. Replied in haste as was busy doing something else (obviously shouldn't multi-task). Have now done quick online search to examine my typo situation. Treatment strategy to my mind would follow same protocols. Clean up pelvis, reduce inflammation, and astringe tissues. Probably would have more astringent leanings as in the case of fibroids.I'd still work on balancing hormones as anything with an infertility component would indicate something hormonal going on. Uterine tissue responds to hormones.We all see patients every day with conditions we have little or no experience of, but we don't turn them away. 20 or so years ago we didn't know we were treating ME/CFS or fibromyalgia - we just saw people who had severe fatigue etc. But we treated them and they got better. It's why we treat the person who has the disease or condition and not the disease or condition. If it was me, I'd start with cleansing, astringing, depending on individuals patients symptoms and presentation, general health and so on. I was always taught to treat the person in front of me. I might well add castor oil packs to clear scar tissue or abnormal tissue in uterine wall.I can't say I've seen anyone with this condition, but that might be because they haven't been diagnosed with it thru usual methods. From what I've seen online it can co-exist with endometriosis, so looks like variant imho - back to treating the person who has the condition rather than the condition. Immune system not dealing with abnormal cell growth, lymphatics not clearing away rubbish, circulation impaired probably and so on. Probably what all herbal treatment boils down to - ensure good food/fuel is put into the system, that it is delivered by good circulatory system to where it is needed, that all debris is cleared away efficiently, that immune system deals with anything out of the ordinary etc. all the best> >> > I have not come across this condition before but saw a patient (42) yesterday who has been diagnosed with this condition. She has been trying to get pregnant for 2 years.> > > > She had a child 3.5 years ago with an emergency C section that had to be enlarged and I wonder if this is when endometrial tissue entered the womb walls. She conceived that baby after 2 months. She has had her tubes checked and even put on clomid even though she has had evidence of ovulation and regular periods of 31 days. Stopped clomid after 2 months and has for the last 12 months tried to lose weight (had a BMI of 31 still overweight but not sure of current BMI) and get fitter and change to healthy diet (following a diet for endometriosis), and has done well.> > > > I am wondering if herbs for endometriosis would be effective in this condition or if anyone has treated this before and has any advice.> > > > many thanks Dore> >> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------> > No virus found in this message.> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com> Version: 10.0.1411 / Virus Database: 2092/4022 - Release Date: 11/17/11> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Hello Not being familiar with this, I've also looked online, both on google and on medline, and can't find anything which definitively says that andometriosis is a condition in itself rather than a typo somewhere way back down the line from someone who's heard endometriosis and assumed it begins with an A. It doesn't appear in the massive Stedman's medical dictionary either. , do you have any websites (other than public discussion ones) or references which say definitively that it's a separate condition, as I don't like things which I can't find, just in case I get a patient with it and end up looking very silly? If it's a separate condition I'd really like to be able to read it up, even if the treatment options seem the same. Otherwise, would concur completely with treatment strategy outlined and agree entirely with the thoughts you describe re not treating 'labels'! Many thanks Alison > > > > > > I have not come across this condition before but saw a patient (42) yesterday who has been diagnosed with this condition. She has been trying to get pregnant for 2 years. > > > > > > She had a child 3.5 years ago with an emergency C section that had to be enlarged and I wonder if this is when endometrial tissue entered the womb walls. She conceived that baby after 2 months. She has had her tubes checked and even put on clomid even though she has had evidence of ovulation and regular periods of 31 days. Stopped clomid after 2 months and has for the last 12 months tried to lose weight (had a BMI of 31 still overweight but not sure of current BMI) and get fitter and change to healthy diet (following a diet for endometriosis), and has done well. > > > > > > I am wondering if herbs for endometriosis would be effective in this condition or if anyone has treated this before and has any advice. > > > > > > many thanks Dore > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 10.0.1411 / Virus Database: 2092/4022 - Release Date: 11/17/11 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 I think the correct term is Adenomyosis which is, as says, where "the endometrial tissue invades the muscle of the womb".Bestn Hello Not being familiar with this, I've also looked online, both on google and on medline, and can't find anything which definitively says that andometriosis is a condition in itself rather than a typo somewhere way back down the line from someone who's heard endometriosis and assumed it begins with an A. It doesn't appear in the massive Stedman's medical dictionary either. , do you have any websites (other than public discussion ones) or references which say definitively that it's a separate condition, as I don't like things which I can't find, just in case I get a patient with it and end up looking very silly? If it's a separate condition I'd really like to be able to read it up, even if the treatment options seem the same. Otherwise, would concur completely with treatment strategy outlined and agree entirely with the thoughts you describe re not treating 'labels'! Many thanks Alison > > > > > > I have not come across this condition before but saw a patient (42) yesterday who has been diagnosed with this condition. She has been trying to get pregnant for 2 years. > > > > > > She had a child 3.5 years ago with an emergency C section that had to be enlarged and I wonder if this is when endometrial tissue entered the womb walls. She conceived that baby after 2 months. She has had her tubes checked and even put on clomid even though she has had evidence of ovulation and regular periods of 31 days. Stopped clomid after 2 months and has for the last 12 months tried to lose weight (had a BMI of 31 still overweight but not sure of current BMI) and get fitter and change to healthy diet (following a diet for endometriosis), and has done well. > > > > > > I am wondering if herbs for endometriosis would be effective in this condition or if anyone has treated this before and has any advice. > > > > > > many thanks Dore > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 10.0.1411 / Virus Database: 2092/4022 - Release Date: 11/17/11 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Hi , I have seen one patient with Adenomyosis before. Unfortunately she was only able to continue with her medicine for a couple of months (she moved abroad), however we made good headway in that period of time. She had many of the usual symptoms: heavy bleeding, large clots, dark blood, dragging pain down legs and an ache that felt it was penetrating her bones, legs felt swollen at the end of the day. Px also suffered with IBS. I treated her with Vitex, Paeonia, Vib op, Zingiber, Tarax rad, Achillea, Calendula, Salix and Uncaria. In just 2 months her periods became lighter, no clots, blood brighter colour, reduced IBS symptoms, less swelling sensation in legs, pain was hardly there anymore and no sensation of the deep bone pain. Good luck with your patient. Best wishes Ginny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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