Guest guest Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 Dear All, Would appreciate any insight into this case greatly... 63 yr old female, oral thrush constantly for past 3 yrs, o/e mouth sore, red, extends down throat, no white plaques, tongue severely cracked and sore, cracks at corner of mouth, in constant pain, hampers eating and drinking. History includes lots of 4 x courses abx and 2 c steriods for thrush and chest infections since March 2011, Crohns disease diagnosed 1992, Colostomy 2005. Lots of fungal conditions dating back to teens. Oral swabs have consistently returned positive for oral thrush. Generally she is run down, exhausted, has given up after a 40 year heavy smoking habit and has a stubborn chest infection. Diet terrible, loosing weight We started on a main mix, slippery elm caps, topical hydrastis honey (top tip garnered from here!), and a mouthwash - resulted in 50% improvement in oral symptoms at 3 weeks treatment, and she could eat and drink again with pleasure.... then she ran out of mouthwash and hydrastis honey and quickly went back to square one. Cough not improved after 3 weeks treatment. Main Mix: Calendula 90%, Echinacea, Tabebuilla, Astragalus, Inula, Plantago Mouthwash: Calendula 90%, Glycyrhizza, Comiphora mol mol 90%. She now takes supplemental garlic at night, B12, probiotics and Vit C in the day, improved her diet to include more rice, chicken and fish, took dairy largely out of her diet, reduced her tea intake from 30 (!) cups a day to 10 cups a day, and drinks more water. Second prescription main mix included Thymus for chest and as anti fungal, and cinnamonum - she is damp and cold. Mouthwash grew to include Echinacea and Propolis, 4 x day. She refused the Hydrastis honey. Today improvements were evident, back to middle ground after 9 weeks of treatment, better than before treatment, but not as good as after the first 3 weeks of treatment (with Hydrastis honey) but a recent bout of d & v meant that she had two days off her regime, and again, she went right back to square one immediately. Chest has shown no signs of improving, still productive and green, at least 8 months in duration to date. I have asked her to return to her gp and ask for a review of her condition, and some blood tests for determining what is going on with her immune function, and we have definitely decided to reinstate the Hydrastis honey. She is a real trooper, and keeps up a good spirit despite all of this. Sorry for the length; if any of you have any wise insights to share I would be very grateful. Best wishes, Palmer BSc (Hons) MNIMH Medical Herbalist 6c Church Road Alverstoke Hants PO12 3JX 07870 544512 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Hi , You say she's taking probiotics now during the day. If its in capsule form, it may be worthwhile breaking open the capsule and then taking well away from the mouthwash and meds, in water, food, whatever and swishing around the mouth before swallowing. Is it a specific probiotic or a combination one? Also how many billions of bacteria is she taking - sometimes you need big doses. You can also buy powdered probiotics - Biocare do them, don't know about other makes. Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 What's her diet like? (eg does she have a very sweet tooth? Is she eating enough veg and fruit?) Any problems with her salivary glands? Sufficient saliva? Sally Owen > Dear All, > Would appreciate any insight into this case greatly... > > 63 yr old female, oral thrush constantly for past 3 yrs, o/e mouth sore, red, extends down throat, no white plaques, tongue severely cracked and sore, cracks at corner of mouth, in constant pain, hampers eating and drinking. > > History includes lots of 4 x courses abx and 2 c steriods for thrush and chest infections since March 2011, Crohns disease diagnosed 1992, Colostomy 2005. Lots of fungal conditions dating back to teens. Oral swabs have consistently returned positive for oral thrush. Generally she is run down, exhausted, has given up after a 40 year heavy smoking habit and has a stubborn chest infection. > > Diet terrible, loosing weight > > We started on a main mix, slippery elm caps, topical hydrastis honey (top tip garnered from here!), and a mouthwash - resulted in 50% improvement in oral symptoms at 3 weeks treatment, and she could eat and drink again with pleasure.... then she ran out of mouthwash and hydrastis honey and quickly went back to square one. Cough not improved after 3 weeks treatment. > > Main Mix: Calendula 90%, Echinacea, Tabebuilla, Astragalus, Inula, Plantago > Mouthwash: Calendula 90%, Glycyrhizza, Comiphora mol mol 90%. > > She now takes supplemental garlic at night, B12, probiotics and Vit C in the day, improved her diet to include more rice, chicken and fish, took dairy largely out of her diet, reduced her tea intake from 30 (!) cups a day to 10 cups a day, and drinks more water. > > Second prescription main mix included Thymus for chest and as anti fungal, and cinnamonum - she is damp and cold. Mouthwash grew to include Echinacea and Propolis, 4 x day. She refused the Hydrastis honey. > > Today improvements were evident, back to middle ground after 9 weeks of treatment, better than before treatment, but not as good as after the first 3 weeks of treatment (with Hydrastis honey) but a recent bout of d & v meant that she had two days off her regime, and again, she went right back to square one immediately. Chest has shown no signs of improving, still productive and green, at least 8 months in duration to date. > > I have asked her to return to her gp and ask for a review of her condition, and some blood tests for determining what is going on with her immune function, and we have definitely decided to reinstate the Hydrastis honey. She is a real trooper, and keeps up a good spirit despite all of this. > > Sorry for the length; if any of you have any wise insights to share I would be very grateful. > Best wishes, > > > Palmer BSc (Hons) MNIMH > Medical Herbalist > 6c Church Road > Alverstoke > Hants PO12 3JX > > 07870 544512 > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Oops, just spotted " diet terrible " How about some nourishing soups? Easy to eat, and she could put some immune boosting chinese roots and mushrooms in... and it's easy to do, and to get down Sally > What's her diet like? (eg does she have a very sweet tooth? Is she > eating enough veg and fruit?) > > Any problems with her salivary glands? Sufficient saliva? > > > Sally Owen > > > >> Dear All, >> Would appreciate any insight into this case greatly... >> >> 63 yr old female, oral thrush constantly for past 3 yrs, o/e mouth sore, red, extends down throat, no white plaques, tongue severely cracked and sore, cracks at corner of mouth, in constant pain, hampers eating and drinking. >> >> History includes lots of 4 x courses abx and 2 c steriods for thrush and chest infections since March 2011, Crohns disease diagnosed 1992, Colostomy 2005. Lots of fungal conditions dating back to teens. Oral swabs have consistently returned positive for oral thrush. Generally she is run down, exhausted, has given up after a 40 year heavy smoking habit and has a stubborn chest infection. >> >> Diet terrible, loosing weight >> >> We started on a main mix, slippery elm caps, topical hydrastis honey (top tip garnered from here!), and a mouthwash - resulted in 50% improvement in oral symptoms at 3 weeks treatment, and she could eat and drink again with pleasure.... then she ran out of mouthwash and hydrastis honey and quickly went back to square one. Cough not improved after 3 weeks treatment. >> >> Main Mix: Calendula 90%, Echinacea, Tabebuilla, Astragalus, Inula, Plantago >> Mouthwash: Calendula 90%, Glycyrhizza, Comiphora mol mol 90%. >> >> She now takes supplemental garlic at night, B12, probiotics and Vit C in the day, improved her diet to include more rice, chicken and fish, took dairy largely out of her diet, reduced her tea intake from 30 (!) cups a day to 10 cups a day, and drinks more water. >> >> Second prescription main mix included Thymus for chest and as anti fungal, and cinnamonum - she is damp and cold. Mouthwash grew to include Echinacea and Propolis, 4 x day. She refused the Hydrastis honey. >> >> Today improvements were evident, back to middle ground after 9 weeks of treatment, better than before treatment, but not as good as after the first 3 weeks of treatment (with Hydrastis honey) but a recent bout of d & v meant that she had two days off her regime, and again, she went right back to square one immediately. Chest has shown no signs of improving, still productive and green, at least 8 months in duration to date. >> >> I have asked her to return to her gp and ask for a review of her condition, and some blood tests for determining what is going on with her immune function, and we have definitely decided to reinstate the Hydrastis honey. She is a real trooper, and keeps up a good spirit despite all of this. >> >> Sorry for the length; if any of you have any wise insights to share I would be very grateful. >> Best wishes, >> >> >> Palmer BSc (Hons) MNIMH >> Medical Herbalist >> 6c Church Road >> Alverstoke >> Hants PO12 3JX >> >> 07870 544512 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 thank you very much > >> Dear All, > >> Would appreciate any insight into this case greatly... > >> > >> 63 yr old female, oral thrush constantly for past 3 yrs, o/e mouth sore, red, extends down throat, no white plaques, tongue severely cracked and sore, cracks at corner of mouth, in constant pain, hampers eating and drinking. > >> > >> History includes lots of 4 x courses abx and 2 c steriods for thrush and chest infections since March 2011, Crohns disease diagnosed 1992, Colostomy 2005. Lots of fungal conditions dating back to teens. Oral swabs have consistently returned positive for oral thrush. Generally she is run down, exhausted, has given up after a 40 year heavy smoking habit and has a stubborn chest infection. > >> > >> Diet terrible, loosing weight > >> > >> We started on a main mix, slippery elm caps, topical hydrastis honey (top tip garnered from here!), and a mouthwash - resulted in 50% improvement in oral symptoms at 3 weeks treatment, and she could eat and drink again with pleasure.... then she ran out of mouthwash and hydrastis honey and quickly went back to square one. Cough not improved after 3 weeks treatment. > >> > >> Main Mix: Calendula 90%, Echinacea, Tabebuilla, Astragalus, Inula, Plantago > >> Mouthwash: Calendula 90%, Glycyrhizza, Comiphora mol mol 90%. > >> > >> She now takes supplemental garlic at night, B12, probiotics and Vit C in the day, improved her diet to include more rice, chicken and fish, took dairy largely out of her diet, reduced her tea intake from 30 (!) cups a day to 10 cups a day, and drinks more water. > >> > >> Second prescription main mix included Thymus for chest and as anti fungal, and cinnamonum - she is damp and cold. Mouthwash grew to include Echinacea and Propolis, 4 x day. She refused the Hydrastis honey. > >> > >> Today improvements were evident, back to middle ground after 9 weeks of treatment, better than before treatment, but not as good as after the first 3 weeks of treatment (with Hydrastis honey) but a recent bout of d & v meant that she had two days off her regime, and again, she went right back to square one immediately. Chest has shown no signs of improving, still productive and green, at least 8 months in duration to date. > >> > >> I have asked her to return to her gp and ask for a review of her condition, and some blood tests for determining what is going on with her immune function, and we have definitely decided to reinstate the Hydrastis honey. She is a real trooper, and keeps up a good spirit despite all of this. > >> > >> Sorry for the length; if any of you have any wise insights to share I would be very grateful. > >> Best wishes, > >> > >> > >> Palmer BSc (Hons) MNIMH > >> Medical Herbalist > >> 6c Church Road > >> Alverstoke > >> Hants PO12 3JX > >> > >> 07870 544512 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------ > >> > >> List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 No plaques? Cracks at mouth corners. My first thought is B deficiency(2 & 12) and iron deficiency. Get her GP to check this too. All the best, Zoe Medical Herbalist MCPP Dip. Phyt. Buteyko Breathing Practitoner " Wild Drugs " 'A Foragers Guide to Healing Plants' Gaia 2010 Bath 01761 439920 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Yes, Zoe, good thinking, checked all that, apparently levels all fine, but with the underlying Crohns I did wonder..... > > No plaques? Cracks at mouth corners. > My first thought is B deficiency(2 & 12) and iron deficiency. Get her GP to check this too. > > All the best, > Zoe > > Medical Herbalist > MCPP Dip. Phyt. > Buteyko Breathing Practitoner > > " Wild Drugs " 'A Foragers Guide to Healing Plants' Gaia 2010 > > Bath > 01761 439920 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 As she responded so well to mucous membrane tonics and antifungals, I am wondering about healing her gut wall and optimising her digestion so that she will be less likely to slip back to square one so quickly once she stops taking what improves symptoms. How is her thyroid function? her pulse? her sleep? her energy? I would try and identify how her endocrine system works.  Betz  Dear All,Would appreciate any insight into this case greatly...63 yr old female, oral thrush constantly for past 3 yrs, o/e mouth sore, red, extends down throat, no white plaques, tongue severely cracked and sore, cracks at corner of mouth, in constant pain, hampers eating and drinking. History includes lots of 4 x courses abx and 2 c steriods for thrush and chest infections since March 2011, Crohns disease diagnosed 1992, Colostomy 2005. Lots of fungal conditions dating back to teens. Oral swabs have consistently returned positive for oral thrush. Generally she is run down, exhausted, has given up after a 40 year heavy smoking habit and has a stubborn chest infection. Diet terrible, loosing weight We started on a main mix, slippery elm caps, topical hydrastis honey (top tip garnered from here!), and a mouthwash - resulted in 50% improvement in oral symptoms at 3 weeks treatment, and she could eat and drink again with pleasure.... then she ran out of mouthwash and hydrastis honey and quickly went back to square one. Cough not improved after 3 weeks treatment. Main Mix: Calendula 90%, Echinacea, Tabebuilla, Astragalus, Inula, PlantagoMouthwash: Calendula 90%, Glycyrhizza, Comiphora mol mol 90%.She now takes supplemental garlic at night, B12, probiotics and Vit C in the day, improved her diet to include more rice, chicken and fish, took dairy largely out of her diet, reduced her tea intake from 30 (!) cups a day to 10 cups a day, and drinks more water. Second prescription main mix included Thymus for chest and as anti fungal, and cinnamonum - she is damp and cold. Mouthwash grew to include Echinacea and Propolis, 4 x day. She refused the Hydrastis honey. Today improvements were evident, back to middle ground after 9 weeks of treatment, better than before treatment, but not as good as after the first 3 weeks of treatment (with Hydrastis honey) but a recent bout of d & v meant that she had two days off her regime, and again, she went right back to square one immediately. Chest has shown no signs of improving, still productive and green, at least 8 months in duration to date. I have asked her to return to her gp and ask for a review of her condition, and some blood tests for determining what is going on with her immune function, and we have definitely decided to reinstate the Hydrastis honey. She is a real trooper, and keeps up a good spirit despite all of this. Sorry for the length; if any of you have any wise insights to share I would be very grateful.Best wishes, Palmer BSc (Hons) MNIMHMedical Herbalist6c Church RoadAlverstokeHants PO12 3JX 07870 544512 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Hi , I think that Astragalus is contra indicated in acute stage of infections (green mucus from chest.....)? Might be better to change into Thymus? God luck and best wishes..... Marilena. To: ukherbal-list From: helloanna99@...Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 16:12:47 +0000Subject: Re: Oral Thrush As she responded so well to mucous membrane tonics and antifungals, I am wondering about healing her gut wall and optimising her digestion so that she will be less likely to slip back to square one so quickly once she stops taking what improves symptoms. How is her thyroid function? her pulse? her sleep? her energy? I would try and identify how her endocrine system works. Betz Dear All,Would appreciate any insight into this case greatly...63 yr old female, oral thrush constantly for past 3 yrs, o/e mouth sore, red, extends down throat, no white plaques, tongue severely cracked and sore, cracks at corner of mouth, in constant pain, hampers eating and drinking.History includes lots of 4 x courses abx and 2 c steriods for thrush and chest infections since March 2011, Crohns disease diagnosed 1992, Colostomy 2005. Lots of fungal conditions dating back to teens. Oral swabs have consistently returned positive for oral thrush. Generally she is run down, exhausted, has given up after a 40 year heavy smoking habit and has a stubborn chest infection.Diet terrible, loosing weight We started on a main mix, slippery elm caps, topical hydrastis honey (top tip garnered from here!), and a mouthwash - resulted in 50% improvement in oral symptoms at 3 weeks treatment, and she could eat and drink again with pleasure.... then she ran out of mouthwash and hydrastis honey and quickly went back to square one. Cough not improved after 3 weeks treatment.Main Mix: Calendula 90%, Echinacea, Tabebuilla, Astragalus, Inula, PlantagoMouthwash: Calendula 90%, Glycyrhizza, Comiphora mol mol 90%.She now takes supplemental garlic at night, B12, probiotics and Vit C in the day, improved her diet to include more rice, chicken and fish, took dairy largely out of her diet, reduced her tea intake from 30 (!) cups a day to 10 cups a day, and drinks more water.Second prescription main mix included Thymus for chest and as anti fungal, and cinnamonum - she is damp and cold. Mouthwash grew to include Echinacea and Propolis, 4 x day. She refused the Hydrastis honey. Today improvements were evident, back to middle ground after 9 weeks of treatment, better than before treatment, but not as good as after the first 3 weeks of treatment (with Hydrastis honey) but a recent bout of d & v meant that she had two days off her regime, and again, she went right back to square one immediately. Chest has shown no signs of improving, still productive and green, at least 8 months in duration to date.I have asked her to return to her gp and ask for a review of her condition, and some blood tests for determining what is going on with her immune function, and we have definitely decided to reinstate the Hydrastis honey. She is a real trooper, and keeps up a good spirit despite all of this.Sorry for the length; if any of you have any wise insights to share I would be very grateful.Best wishes, Palmer BSc (Hons) MNIMHMedical Herbalist6c Church RoadAlverstokeHants PO12 3JX07870 544512 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 HiAstragalus is fine in acute stage of infections of there is an underlying deficiency of lung/digestive energy - according to principles of Chinese medicine.RegardsDr GascoigneMedical doctor, acupuncturist, herbalistClinics in Bath & Tetbury, UKTel: +44 (0) 79 88 05 92 01Also, Bandon, Co. Cork, IrelandTel: +353 (0) 87 9266234Website: www.drgascoigne.comOn 8 Nov 2011, at 17:53, marilena hettema wrote: Hi , I think that Astragalus is contra indicated in acute stage of infections (green mucus from chest.....)? Might be better to change into Thymus? God luck and best wishes..... Marilena. To: ukherbal-list From: helloanna99@...Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 16:12:47 +0000Subject: Re: Oral Thrush As she responded so well to mucous membrane tonics and antifungals, I am wondering about healing her gut wall and optimising her digestion so that she will be less likely to slip back to square one so quickly once she stops taking what improves symptoms. How is her thyroid function? her pulse? her sleep? her energy? I would try and identify how her endocrine system works. Betz Dear All,Would appreciate any insight into this case greatly...63 yr old female, oral thrush constantly for past 3 yrs, o/e mouth sore, red, extends down throat, no white plaques, tongue severely cracked and sore, cracks at corner of mouth, in constant pain, hampers eating and drinking.History includes lots of 4 x courses abx and 2 c steriods for thrush and chest infections since March 2011, Crohns disease diagnosed 1992, Colostomy 2005. Lots of fungal conditions dating back to teens. Oral swabs have consistently returned positive for oral thrush. Generally she is run down, exhausted, has given up after a 40 year heavy smoking habit and has a stubborn chest infection.Diet terrible, loosing weight We started on a main mix, slippery elm caps, topical hydrastis honey (top tip garnered from here!), and a mouthwash - resulted in 50% improvement in oral symptoms at 3 weeks treatment, and she could eat and drink again with pleasure.... then she ran out of mouthwash and hydrastis honey and quickly went back to square one. Cough not improved after 3 weeks treatment.Main Mix: Calendula 90%, Echinacea, Tabebuilla, Astragalus, Inula, PlantagoMouthwash: Calendula 90%, Glycyrhizza, Comiphora mol mol 90%.She now takes supplemental garlic at night, B12, probiotics and Vit C in the day, improved her diet to include more rice, chicken and fish, took dairy largely out of her diet, reduced her tea intake from 30 (!) cups a day to 10 cups a day, and drinks more water.Second prescription main mix included Thymus for chest and as anti fungal, and cinnamonum - she is damp and cold. Mouthwash grew to include Echinacea and Propolis, 4 x day. She refused the Hydrastis honey. Today improvements were evident, back to middle ground after 9 weeks of treatment, better than before treatment, but not as good as after the first 3 weeks of treatment (with Hydrastis honey) but a recent bout of d & v meant that she had two days off her regime, and again, she went right back to square one immediately. Chest has shown no signs of improving, still productive and green, at least 8 months in duration to date.I have asked her to return to her gp and ask for a review of her condition, and some blood tests for determining what is going on with her immune function, and we have definitely decided to reinstate the Hydrastis honey. She is a real trooper, and keeps up a good spirit despite all of this.Sorry for the length; if any of you have any wise insights to share I would be very grateful.Best wishes, Palmer BSc (Hons) MNIMHMedical Herbalist6c Church RoadAlverstokeHants PO12 3JX07870 544512 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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