Guest guest Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 I have been following posts on the pitfalls of trying to administer herbs to the elderly while under NHS care. My father had an appointment at the local teaching hospital today to see the Urology-Oncology Specialist Nurse following the cauterisation of pre-cancerous carpet cover of a carcinom-in-situ [which was nothing worse than a rash]. She told him most of his problem urinating was due to his enlarged prostate encroaching on his bladder. My mother mentioned I was a herbalist, and this professional specialist fully-paid-up-member of the NHS staff said; 'Well, she will probably have something that should help him with that.' My shocked silence indicated to my mother that this sort of comment isn't normal.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 HiWhether someone is 'under NHS care' or not, it is not for anyone to tell a patient what they can and cannot take - although conventional medics often stray over that line. I also know that people in residential units may not feel they can decide for themselves. However, the fact remains that everyone has the right to do what they want themselves.RegardsDr GascoigneMedical doctor, acupuncturist, herbalistClinics in Bath & Tetbury, UKTel: +44 (0) 79 88 05 92 01Also, Bandon, Co. Cork, IrelandTel: +353 (0) 87 9266234Website: www.drgascoigne.comOn 25 Oct 2011, at 13:07, "M" wrote: I have been following posts on the pitfalls of trying to administer herbs to the elderly while under NHS care. My father had an appointment at the local teaching hospital today to see the Urology-Oncology Specialist Nurse following the cauterisation of pre-cancerous carpet cover of a carcinom-in-situ [which was nothing worse than a rash]. She told him most of his problem urinating was due to his enlarged prostate encroaching on his bladder. My mother mentioned I was a herbalist, and this professional specialist fully-paid-up-member of the NHS staff said; 'Well, she will probably have something that should help him with that.' My shocked silence indicated to my mother that this sort of comment isn't normal.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Hi ,you are absolutely right, the problem arises though if the medicine needs to be dispensed to the patient. For instance, carers will not dispense any medicine, even vitamins, unless it is prescribed by a gp ( I am talking about the domestic carers for a bedridden patient). I have been following posts on the pitfalls of trying to administer herbs to the elderly while under NHS care. My father had an appointment at the local teaching hospital today to see the Urology-Oncology Specialist Nurse following the cauterisation of pre-cancerous carpet cover of a carcinom-in-situ [which was nothing worse than a rash]. She told him most of his problem urinating was due to his enlarged prostate encroaching on his bladder. My mother mentioned I was a herbalist, and this professional specialist fully-paid-up-member of the NHS staff said; 'Well, she will probably have something that should help him with that.' My shocked silence indicated to my mother that this sort of comment isn't normal.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 HiThen it is up to the family to follow the wishes of their relative. If there are no family able or willing then ...........RegardsDr GascoigneMedical doctor, acupuncturist, herbalistClinics in Bath & Tetbury, UKTel: +44 (0) 79 88 05 92 01Also, Bandon, Co. Cork, IrelandTel: +353 (0) 87 9266234Website: www.drgascoigne.comOn 25 Oct 2011, at 15:27, anna.newton@... wrote: Hi ,you are absolutely right, the problem arises though if the medicine needs to be dispensed to the patient. For instance, carers will not dispense any medicine, even vitamins, unless it is prescribed by a gp ( I am talking about the domestic carers for a bedridden patient). I have been following posts on the pitfalls of trying to administer herbs to the elderly while under NHS care. My father had an appointment at the local teaching hospital today to see the Urology-Oncology Specialist Nurse following the cauterisation of pre-cancerous carpet cover of a carcinom-in-situ [which was nothing worse than a rash]. She told him most of his problem urinating was due to his enlarged prostate encroaching on his bladder. My mother mentioned I was a herbalist, and this professional specialist fully-paid-up-member of the NHS staff said; 'Well, she will probably have something that should help him with that.' My shocked silence indicated to my mother that this sort of comment isn't normal.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Hi all Belatedly joining this debate. The issue here, I think, is not so much one of individual choice as it is one of culpability of the carer. If a person is in a residential home, the staff working in the home are responsible for dispensing their medicines. They are not allowed, usually, to dispense any medicine which hasn't been prescribed by the resident's GP. Exactly the same situation arises in other residential settings such as boarding schools for example - in fact anywhere where people are cared for (including hospitals). In ordinary (day) schools also, the staff will not usually either hold or administer any medicines unless the child's GP has prescribed them. I fell foul of this initially when treating my step-grandson, who went to a residential school. During term-time he couldn't have his herbs at all - even the iron tonic and vitamin supplements I gave him were withheld, as they hadn't been prescribed by the GP. Although very frustrating (especially when I watched him being fed Ritalin day in day out) I do understand the reasoning behind this draconian-seeming behaviour. As far as they're concerned, we could be untrained charlatans who seek to give people unlicensed poisons, or at the very least, herbs which may interact with other medication. As the managers of all such places would be personally liable for anything going wrong, they are (rightly in my view) very cautious. This is a situation which can only be improved by our becoming regulated, I think, as then we can safely claim to be authorised health professionals with a right to prescribe for our patients. I have a little tale to counteract this gloom, however, in that I once saw a patient in a home who was on a whole raft of medicines, most of which she had no idea what for. With her permission I sought to speak to her GP to clarify the rationale for the prescriptions, and after much rather tense negotiating with the practice manager I actually got in to see him. He didn't look up from his computer, ignored my outstretched hand, and was clearly quite impatient to get rid of me. However, once I'd explained why I was there and he'd looked the patient up on his computer, he suddenly became very polite and not a little embarrassed. It transpired that the lady in question had transferred to his practice over a year before, the home where she lived was right across the road, and in that year no-one had been out to see her to review her medication. I left his surgery with a cheery 'well I can see you must be busy, thank you so much for your time!' and a big grin for the practice manager! Happy days! Alison > > > I have been following posts on the pitfalls of trying to administer herbs to the elderly while under NHS care. > > My father had an appointment at the local teaching hospital today to see the Urology-Oncology Specialist Nurse following the cauterisation of pre-cancerous carpet cover of a carcinom-in-situ [which was nothing worse than a rash]. > > She told him most of his problem urinating was due to his enlarged prostate encroaching on his bladder. > > My mother mentioned I was a herbalist, and this professional specialist fully-paid-up-member of the NHS staff said; 'Well, she will probably have something that should help him with that.' > > My shocked silence indicated to my mother that this sort of comment isn't normal.... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 HiI agree that there are differences between residential schools and residential homes for the elderly. In the case of the school, the school authorities act as the parent or guardian. However, in residential homes for the elderly, this is their home. Therefore, what they do or do not take is their own business.I agree that the so-called carers are not allowed to dispense unauthorised medicines but that does not stop people taking things themselves or being given things by their relatives. This is potentially a very conflictual situation caused by rigidity of rules and regulations. I cannot possibly see how regulation will change this as it is the GP who will continue to decide what is administered. I personally cannot imagine how a GP's attitude is magically going to change the day after regulation.To prevent a person having treatment of their own choice would seem to be to an infringement of a very basic right. In reality of course, people either choose not to make waves or some take herbs, homoeopathic remedies etc secretly (which is frequently the case already in outpatient practice),RegardsDr GascoigneMedical doctor, acupuncturist, herbalistClinics in Bath & Tetbury, UKTel: +44 (0) 79 88 05 92 01Also, Bandon, Co. Cork, IrelandTel: +353 (0) 87 9266234Website: www.drgascoigne.comOn 26 Oct 2011, at 19:35, "alisonmorton68" wrote: Hi all Belatedly joining this debate. The issue here, I think, is not so much one of individual choice as it is one of culpability of the carer. If a person is in a residential home, the staff working in the home are responsible for dispensing their medicines. They are not allowed, usually, to dispense any medicine which hasn't been prescribed by the resident's GP. Exactly the same situation arises in other residential settings such as boarding schools for example - in fact anywhere where people are cared for (including hospitals). In ordinary (day) schools also, the staff will not usually either hold or administer any medicines unless the child's GP has prescribed them. I fell foul of this initially when treating my step-grandson, who went to a residential school. During term-time he couldn't have his herbs at all - even the iron tonic and vitamin supplements I gave him were withheld, as they hadn't been prescribed by the GP. Although very frustrating (especially when I watched him being fed Ritalin day in day out) I do understand the reasoning behind this draconian-seeming behaviour. As far as they're concerned, we could be untrained charlatans who seek to give people unlicensed poisons, or at the very least, herbs which may interact with other medication. As the managers of all such places would be personally liable for anything going wrong, they are (rightly in my view) very cautious. This is a situation which can only be improved by our becoming regulated, I think, as then we can safely claim to be authorised health professionals with a right to prescribe for our patients. I have a little tale to counteract this gloom, however, in that I once saw a patient in a home who was on a whole raft of medicines, most of which she had no idea what for. With her permission I sought to speak to her GP to clarify the rationale for the prescriptions, and after much rather tense negotiating with the practice manager I actually got in to see him. He didn't look up from his computer, ignored my outstretched hand, and was clearly quite impatient to get rid of me. However, once I'd explained why I was there and he'd looked the patient up on his computer, he suddenly became very polite and not a little embarrassed. It transpired that the lady in question had transferred to his practice over a year before, the home where she lived was right across the road, and in that year no-one had been out to see her to review her medication. I left his surgery with a cheery 'well I can see you must be busy, thank you so much for your time!' and a big grin for the practice manager! Happy days! Alison > > > I have been following posts on the pitfalls of trying to administer herbs to the elderly while under NHS care. > > My father had an appointment at the local teaching hospital today to see the Urology-Oncology Specialist Nurse following the cauterisation of pre-cancerous carpet cover of a carcinom-in-situ [which was nothing worse than a rash]. > > She told him most of his problem urinating was due to his enlarged prostate encroaching on his bladder. > > My mother mentioned I was a herbalist, and this professional specialist fully-paid-up-member of the NHS staff said; 'Well, she will probably have something that should help him with that.' > > My shocked silence indicated to my mother that this sort of comment isn't normal.... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.