Re: Completely overwhelmed

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 at 17:31:05 +0000, Underdog wrote:

> Here comes another question on my part, do you have many friends?

No

> And are they neuro-typicals or do they also have asperger syndrome?

I've had friendships with both, but I underestimated the difficulties

of getting along with AS people in real life, so the only AS friends I

have now are on-line. I think NTs get bored with me or they're just

too busy these days

> Do you desire more friends

Yes, but not just anybody. We would have to have common interests and

that tends to rule out a lot of people.

> and how do you go about this?

I wish I knew!

> Don't you find these bursts of anger annoying yourself, or the effect

> this has on others?

I tend to control and prevent bursts of anger from myself, but of course

burst of anger from others do annoy me.

> Is there never a sense of loneliness covering up feelings?

Not sure, really. Loneliness is a negative thing, so it's not

something I would want to admit I suffer from to casual acquaintances.

>> OK, that implies that she is thinking and caring more about herself than

>> she is about you.

>

> Well to clarify this, so to not give you a bad idea of who she is, she

> had this paranoia that I didn't know her very well, and she was pushing

> me with verbal attacks to speak the truth. When I retaliated with my

> vision of her, her paranoia faded. I don't know, I try to withhold as

> many angry words as possible, but sometimes this has a larger effect on

> her. I don't perceive her to be all that selfish though, and if she is,

> she doesn't mean too- or is unable to do otherwise.

Fair comment.

>> As I have said above, there are some aspies who actually communicate

>> better on-line than they do in person. I don't know whether you gf is

>> one of those people, but in case she is, it would be a shame to be

>> wasting all this apart time when you could be exchanging views and

>> progressing your relationship right now.

>

> Well there's also a long distance thing going on haha. And she's coming

> here within a month, so my idea is, that we would talk when she gets

> here next month. The long distance thing is probably also very hard on

> her part, as it is on me, but maybe even more on her part.

You are in the best position to judge what method of communication suits

you both best. My point though was that the method which suits you

best may or may not necessarily be the one that suits her best, so be

careful not to automatically project what is best for you on to her. I

know that if I was in a similar long-distance relationship with someone,

I would want to be making the most of the media today, and not wait

for a future physical meeting.

>> I'm saying security is very important, especially for a woman, and so

>> are having compatible tastes and long-term objectives in life. Is

>> having children and bringing up a family the most important thing for

>> both of you, or do you have other ambitions that are more important?

>> Once the novelty of your relationship wears off and you settle down to

>> routine married life, after a few years are you really going to find

>> the person you are living with a compatible partner for the rest of your

>> lives? These kind of questions, over time, can transcend the strong

>> but temporary feelings of attraction you get with a new partner.

>

> This is the part I have trouble with, she recently also talked about if

> we were compatible, while again, when she was here there was no trouble.

> The thing is, this whole year, the time we are together, I've just been

> working hard to get her here just to spend time with her. We talked

> about our ambitions in life and we are mutually compatible in that we

> want to travel and be happy together. Recently it seems that she rather

> wants to be alone with her hobbies instead of with me, which might be

> due to the distance and feelings passing as time goes, or that her

> hobbies have completely enthralled her and thus being unable to

> communicate to me. In a way I understand that she wants to think things

> over, but as we talked about it before, it suddenly black while first it

> was white, this will hopefully change, if she's still happy with me,

> which I don't think should be a problem since our time together is

> wonderful. As for me, I'm pretty adaptable, I just want to be with her

> and make her happy. That's seriously all, I have my own professional

> ambitions, such as writing, but I also confessed in saying that I rather

> want a simple but lovely life with her, instead of making all my big

> artistic dreams come true, because the latter doesn't seem all that

> important if I'm not happy with her.

From my point of view, I get the impression you are basing everything

on dreamy insubstantial concepts at the expense of practical matters

which you are neglecting. You come from different countries, so in

which country are you going to live? What are the rules for visas and

work permits? Are you going to choose a city or a country life?

Where is the money coming from? Will you keep animals? What kind of

housing will you live in? Smoking or non-smoking? All these and so

many other practical matters need to be talked about and you need to

form a concensus on them between you. Isn't this the basis of what

making a life together is all about?

>> Haha! I suppose I could always tell someone how much I loved them by

>> giving them a rating out of 100. For example I could say " Yes my

>> dear, I love you 20% " For me, the figure would always have to be

>> varying! Haha!

>

> While the last bit was pretty funny I have to say, I do have to admit

> that I find this perception pretty faulty, though I have read quite a

> bit of that with my girlfriend. To me, this is intellectualizing

> something to an extent that you are ruining the bliss out of a

> relationship.

Bliss is only a dreamy concept. It doesn't have substance by itself.

It comes from successfully managing all the practical matters that I've

been mentioning, together.

> Many couples, having differences can be worked out, simply

> by either chemistry and care for each other, and holding on.

Yes, those can help, but you need to have the fundamentals in place

first, otherwise you have no purpose or direction.

> Course there are the destructive ones, but there are no set rules for

> relationships and there is no exact science for it.

Plenty of science and logistics and purpose are needed in order to make

a success out of your lives. Without those, you will be drifting around

in a fog!

> I think this is also why relationships with either spouse or friend

> must be hard for aspergers because it's unpredictable,

Everything descends into unpredictable chaos unless you're constantly

working to organise it. I would not like to live a life of chaos and

disorder, so that's why I have to work.

> It's the respect and camaraderie you have for each other....,

Yes, but in my world, these need to be related to something I'm

sharing. I don't understand how they can exist as abstract concepts in

a vaccuum.

> and everyone has flaws and certainly nobody's perfect, and I've

> heard this from my girlfriend too, but to say you can't love someone

> a hundred percent because they are not perfect is pretty ludicrous.

It all comes back to the definition of love. I would say that 100%

love is an idealistic concept we should always aim for, like we aim for

perfection, but in actual fact these are both unattainable. The best

we can do is approach them asymptotically.

> That essentially means nobody can love each other because nobody is

> perfect,

That's right. They can never love each other 100%, but 100% can

still be their aim. By the way, what about happiness? We seem to

have lost track of that most essential ingredient somewhere down the

line in our arguments!

> but I guess, as we've discussed before, the meaning of love has been

> altered and pretty much mauled by all such people that think they know

> what it means.

Yes, I agree with you on that.

> I have a bunch of friends who all have some stupid traits, and are

> engulfed by traits that are simply not compatible, I even have a friend,

> who when we talk about why we are friends, we still can't figure out

> why, but it's simply chemistry and over the years, I guess we have a

> certain love for each other. The annoying thing about this , is that

> I can't describe it without disgusting you with some poetic meaning. It

> just works and we both like to make it work. I think that's pretty much

> the secret to a relationship, that and taking care of all the shit

> that's going inside your head all the time!

You've lost me there!

> So do I actually know what love means? Fuck, I would be pretentious to

> say so, but I view love as simply caring for someone, simply altruism

> and being nice and lovable to someone because you enjoy their company

> and the world seems to make sense with that certain someone.

Yes, that's certainly a nice and one of many valid ways of looking at

it.

> you just have to find out how life can stay so nice with that person.

> And like all great things, it requires hope and yes, a lot endurance,

and a shared sense of purpose and achievement that comes from working on

it, I would add.

> because , like all Nt's and all aspies, we all are pretty much

> full of shit sometimes.

I will allow you to speak for yourself and for NTs if you like, but I

don't think you have the right to speak for me or for Aspies in general

for that matter.

> ..... it's nice to be with someone who is nice and cares about you,

> that when the fucking shit hits the fan, that person is there for you.

> That's all I want to be for someone.

Nice dreamy idealistic thoughts, but that's all they are in my opinion.

> Course relationships have their difficulties, and are some fundamentals

> that have to be right, but perfection is a virtue rarely granted, in a

> relationship you have perfect moments and if it's all right, most of

> those moments are pretty much awesome. But nobody's perfect and if you

> say to a relationship you have to face the fact that eventually, shit's

> going to happen. If you have a nice enough person, or you if like (or

> love) the person enough, there shouldn't be anything to worry.

I don't see total perfection as ever being granted, and if, as you say,

nobody is perfect, then how can you have perfect moments?

> Course there's anxiety and depression and that jazz, and the biggest

> enemy is eventually ourselves. It isn't easy but it isn't exact

> science.

Without an engine and without a rudder, it doesn't matter how beautiful

the boat is, you simply drift. Engines and rudders are the product

of science, so if you ignore the science, you do so at your peril.

> Thank you and I hope I haven't failed this time too!

No, you haven't failed, but from an Aspie point of view, I see you as

being adrift in some areas, lacking somewhat in purpose, planning and

direction.

[Guest guest]

Eyre wrote:

> On the one hand she would want to

> avoid confrontation, but on the other hand leaving the issue

> unresolved would amount to a constant distracting prickle in her brain.

I'll have to remember your " constant distracting prickle in her brain "

comment.

This so perfectly describes why it's far more easy for me to risk a

potential confrontation. NOT to take the risk is just too uncomfortable

for me. In my priorities, resolving the issue is far more important to

my emotional peace than taking the risk.

Best,

~CJ

[Guest guest]

Nice to have your compliment, CJ. Thanks. It's obviously nothing

too unusual then, harbouring prickles like this 'cos I certainly find

them distracting myself if I don't deal with them promptly. I see it

as a subset of my difficulties with multi-tasking when I have to clear

any outstanding prickles before I undertake a task that requires my full

attention and concentration.

Of course potential confrontation is only one of several types of

prickle. Jobs undone is another.

--- Re: Completely overwhelmed

Eyre wrote:

> On the one hand she would want to

> avoid confrontation, but on the other hand leaving the issue

> unresolved would amount to a constant distracting prickle in her brain.

I'll have to remember your " constant distracting prickle in her brain "

comment.

This so perfectly describes why it's far more easy for me to risk a

potential confrontation. NOT to take the risk is just too uncomfortable

for me. In my priorities, resolving the issue is far more important to

my emotional peace than taking the risk.

Best,

~CJ

[Guest guest]

,

I too really liked the " harboring prickles on the brain " LOL. Yup, I do that.

Especially so if there is something I don't understand, but I want to

understand, but have no way to access that information. (The internet has been a

boon!) Often the question has to do with interpersonal dynamics, but it could be

something I saw, but couldn't find out the " whole story. "

As an aside to NT parents of AS children, all children go through that annoying

" why " stage. Our neighbour's 3 year old, social little chap that he is, has

already figured out how to keep engaging adults with " why " questions. As in,

" why is your little cat inside right now? " Me: " because she is sleeping. " 3 YO:

" why is she sleeping? " .. and you know how this one goes, LOL.

He also understands sarcasm. After he stubbornly refused to place something

where his mother asked him to, I heard her say in exasperation, " once again,

thank you for listening to me. " He then immediately placed it in the right

location. Now, little AS me at that age, I would have done as told unless I

misunderstood the request (AS rule abiding.) I would have interpreted the

" thanks for listening " comment as praise for complying, and yet the sarcastic

tone would have been confusing and upsetting to me.

AS children may be asking " why " about everything for a very long time, much

longer than an NT child might. And they would do so because they *actually need

to know the answer* as opposed to just trying to get attention. Harried adults

may say, " never mind! " The AS child may never ask again, sensing that to do so

would invite a negative response.

Some of these confusing things were disturbing to me, until I understood the

explanation, years, sometimes decades, later. The adult's refusal to explain

also made me feel like if I had to ask the question in the first place, I must

be pretty stupid, and the annoyance in their tone made me feel that in adult's

eyes, I didn't matter as much as others. I've moved on, but it's something to

think about.

- Helen

>

> > On the one hand she would want to

> > avoid confrontation, but on the other hand leaving the issue

> > unresolved would amount to a constant distracting prickle in her brain.

>

>

> I'll have to remember your " constant distracting prickle in her brain "

> comment.

>

> This so perfectly describes why it's far more easy for me to risk a

> potential confrontation. NOT to take the risk is just too uncomfortable

> for me. In my priorities, resolving the issue is far more important to

> my emotional peace than taking the risk.

>

> Best,

> ~CJ

>

[Guest guest]

helen_foisy wrote:

> I too really liked the " harboring prickles on the brain " LOL. Yup, I do that.

Especially so if there is something I don't understand, but I want to

understand, but have no way to access that information. (The internet has been a

boon!) Often the question has to do with interpersonal dynamics, but it could be

something I saw, but couldn't find out the " whole story. "

For me, it's usually an interpersonal dynamics issue. It will itch away

at my brain until I'm able to address whatever the thing is.

Unfortunately, sometimes I'm left to itch. Not everyone will be

interested in confronting/resolving every interpersonal dynamics issue.

Some people would just rather cut their losses and move on, especially

if they don't have a lot invested in maintaining a relationship with me.

I think it's kinda sad, as most interpersonal stuff can be cleared up

with minimal effort provided there is motivation to come to the table.

Best,

~CJ

[Guest guest]

** = my comments -

>

> > Seeing as I have a romantic relationship with an Aspie and have been

> > lately privy to some of his handicaps, could you for me, explain to

> > me, if you can, why a relationship is so much work for you, what do you

> > find the hardest?

>

> I dunno, in my case maybe a lack of truly common shared

> interests, aims,aspirations and priorities in life is one reason.

> Another would be my unwillingness to forgive when partners knowingly do

> serious things against my wishes.

>

> But of course successful relationships have to be two-way, so partners

> have to be happy with me and my ways as well as me being happy with

> theirs.

** - This is very true. I have never met anyone like I have with April (my

" significant other " ). We have an extraordinary amount in common, that we love

doing things together. And what differences we do have - they compliment each

other. Successful relationships must be two-way; there's no other ways to go

about having a successful relationship.

>

> > What I find is that it is true, my lady was even so cruel in saying that

> > she is thinking that she rather wants to be left alone with her books

> > and hobbies and not be around with people. This is very hurtful for me

> > to hear, because I love her company.

>

> That might be a sign that she needs her own private time and private

> space more than you do. It need not necessarily imply a complete rejection.

** is right here, too. Some people need more private time than others. I

am sure you love her company, Chris. And unless you give her that time and

privacy, you may continue feeling the way you do about her. People with AS are

known for being " isolated " from other people and may feel alive through reading

books and such. The reason I am very successful is because I forced myself out

of my " comfort zone " to meet people (even when I knew this wasn't a strength of

mine. The benefits of this have shown in my relationship with April and in

other facets of my life.

>

> > Though I realize it's hard for her too. And whatever offense I suffer,

> > I'd suffer them no matter what because I really want to make her happy.

> > But it's obvious that she's been excluding me. She also uses the word

> > ''rationality'' lots of times to justify herself, though being stoic is

> > anything but rational. So it isn't easy. Can you give me more advice?

>

> Well rationality implies following carefully thought-out decisions

> rather than momentary emotions. Aspies have great difficulty

> understanding other people's emotional reactions, so perhaps she'd be

> happier if you were to take things slowly and go through a conventional

> courtship with each other where you calmly and rationally explore and

> compare your interests and life aspirations together. Basing anything

> important purely on feelings or emotions is an aspie no-no.

>

> > -A man who loves his woman.

>

> Love is an emotion. Be very careful with that!

>

>

>

** Love may feel like an emotion, but it's more a behavior than emotion or

anything else. Anyone can say, " I love you. " However, does the behavior behind

saying " I love you " justify that that individual loves another person? April

and I have talked about this from time to time. We both agree that love is a

behavior, moreso than anything else.