RE: Preparing for childbirth

[Guest guest]

Huge congratulations, Ingrid! I will contact you offsite if I may. Best

love, Caroline S

Preparing for childbirth

> Hello Herbalists

>

> I am expecting my first baby in a few weeks. I have

> had a trouble free (and rather enjoyable) pregnancy

> and am planning a home birth with the support of the

> community midwives.

>

> I have been taking some herbs and have a good few

> lined up for the event itself if required!(I attended

> the excellent Pregnancy and Chilbirth seminar in

> January).

>

> I was wondering if anyone had any advice -herbal or

> otherwise from personal or professional experience

> they would be happy to share about the labour and

> birth, the baby and the subsequent weeks....

>

> Many thanks and best wishes to all.

>

> Ingrid

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

>

>

>

> List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH

>

[Guest guest]

dear Ingrid

Where to start? support!Best of luck and blessings

Green

Preparing for childbirth

> Hello Herbalists

>

> I am expecting my first baby in a few weeks. I have

> had a trouble free (and rather enjoyable) pregnancy

> and am planning a home birth with the support of the

> community midwives.

>

> I have been taking some herbs and have a good few

> lined up for the event itself if required!(I attended

> the excellent Pregnancy and Chilbirth seminar in

> January).

>

> I was wondering if anyone had any advice -herbal or

> otherwise from personal or professional experience

> they would be happy to share about the labour and

> birth, the baby and the subsequent weeks....

>

> Many thanks and best wishes to all.

>

> Ingrid

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

>

>

>

> List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH

>

[Guest guest]

Dear ingrid

i partly hit thr reply button to see what would happen following a's

comment. didn't gte message as she did but that might be because I use internet

exploer and I think she's using outlook

I still have column of ads down righthand side - annoying as it distracts fro

message.

You''ll probably get loads of answers. One thing that helped me during labour

(my 3rd so i'd had practice but let's just say they weren't great) was

visualisation. I imagined I was on the inside looking down and watched daylight

increase - bit like being in a tunnel and seeing end come closer. Did it through

all contractions. visualised muscles working to increase size of " hole " . Eevery

so often i would get tired and take a break - more or less told mt body i needed

a break and then contraction would stop. after 15 minutes rest I'd say let's get

on with this and they'd start again - it sounds crazy but i was actually able to

control when i had contractions and how effective they were. previous two

labours were quite long and both had slow progress (1st one ended on casaerian

because of that. 3rd one - he was born in 6 hours.)

other gems - you'll hear it everywhere REST! dishes will always get washed at

some time and no-one ever died of not making beds. (actually the same goes for

when baby is older - you will never have the time back so make sure you always

make time to read to him/her - buy Babies Need Books if it still exists)

Should you happen to develop mastitis - use chamomile poultices - make strong

cham tea and apply as hot as you can bear it to wherever hurts.

If you get down few days after birth - treat it hormonally -they have just

plummeted. Chamaelirium is vey helpful (Rutland grow it so it's OK to use

theirs)

I'll let everyone else to give you more stuff.

best wishes and enjoy every minute

========================================

Message Received: Jun 07 2006, 10:01 AM

From: " ingrid williams "

To: " herbalist "

Cc:

Subject: Preparing for childbirth

Hello Herbalists

I am expecting my first baby in a few weeks. I have

had a trouble free (and rather enjoyable) pregnancy

and am planning a home birth with the support of the

community midwives.

I have been taking some herbs and have a good few

lined up for the event itself if required!(I attended

the excellent Pregnancy and Chilbirth seminar in

January).

I was wondering if anyone had any advice -herbal or

otherwise from personal or professional experience

they would be happy to share about the labour and

birth, the baby and the subsequent weeks....

Many thanks and best wishes to all.

Ingrid

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Ingrid,

Congratulations.

I found a mix of cimicifuga and caulophylum every 10 mins to keep things

moving helped. Also focusing internally staying on my feet and walking about

and breathing deeply helped. (oh and shouting!)

Will contact you off list

Love Jean

_____

From: ukherbal-list [mailto:ukherbal-list ]

On Behalf Of ingrid williams

Sent: 07 June 2006 10:00

To: herbalist

Subject: Preparing for childbirth

Hello Herbalists

I am expecting my first baby in a few weeks. I have

had a trouble free (and rather enjoyable) pregnancy

and am planning a home birth with the support of the

community midwives.

I have been taking some herbs and have a good few

lined up for the event itself if required!(I attended

the excellent Pregnancy and Chilbirth seminar in

January).

I was wondering if anyone had any advice -herbal or

otherwise from personal or professional experience

they would be happy to share about the labour and

birth, the baby and the subsequent weeks....

Many thanks and best wishes to all.

Ingrid

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger

<http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com> .yahoo.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Ingrid -

firstly - congratulations!

I also recently had my first baby and can recommend 3 things hat made for an

enjoyable (really) pain free (really!) birth.

1) Self hypnosis - self hypnosis CD's available from www.hypnobabies.com.

Amazingly effective, basically reprogramming the neuro-linguistic system. Not

Contractions, but birthing waves etc. Self-anasthesia & visualisations etc.

Fabulous.

2) 'Epi-no' http://www.epi-no.com/birth.htm

To stretch the perineum. I found perineal massage uncomfortable (also

logistically alarming...) and this was highly effective - begin 3 weeks before

your due date. There are very promising statisitcs. My personal experience was

of no tearing/need for episiotomy.

3) Orange Essential Oil lip balm

Make a balm with Orange EO, which is mean, by a reflex action, to help dilate

the cervix.

Also - make sure you keep up your fluid/sugar levels, especially if you vomit. I

was recommended white grape juice, which is meant to give energy to the foetus

(doula lore!) and sweets called 'preggie pops' - with anti-nausea favours. I

didn't use them but was reassured to know I had them on standby!

Have a wonderful, safe birth!

Congratulations again,

Tamsin

To: ukherbal-list@...: laura@...: Wed,

7 Jun 2006 19:08:53 +0200Subject: RE: Preparing for childbirth

Dear ingridi partly hit thr reply button to see what would happen following

a's comment. didn't gte message as she did but that might be because I use

internet exploer and I think she's using outlookI still have column of ads down

righthand side - annoying as it distracts fro message.You''ll probably get loads

of answers. One thing that helped me during labour (my 3rd so i'd had practice

but let's just say they weren't great) was visualisation. I imagined I was on

the inside looking down and watched daylight increase - bit like being in a

tunnel and seeing end come closer. Did it through all contractions. visualised

muscles working to increase size of " hole " . Eevery so often i would get tired

and take a break - more or less told mt body i needed a break and then

contraction would stop. after 15 minutes rest I'd say let's get on with this and

they'd start again - it sounds crazy but i was actually able to control when i

had contractions and how effective they were. previous two labours were quite

long and both had slow progress (1st one ended on casaerian because of that. 3rd

one - he was born in 6 hours.) other gems - you'll hear it everywhere REST!

dishes will always get washed at some time and no-one ever died of not making

beds. (actually the same goes for when baby is older - you will never have the

time back so make sure you always make time to read to him/her - buy Babies Need

Books if it still exists)Should you happen to develop mastitis - use chamomile

poultices - make strong cham tea and apply as hot as you can bear it to wherever

hurts.If you get down few days after birth - treat it hormonally -they have just

plummeted. Chamaelirium is vey helpful (Rutland grow it so it's OK to use

theirs)I'll let everyone else to give you more stuff.best wishes and enjoy every

minute========================================Message Received: Jun 07

2006, 10:01 AMFrom: " ingrid williams " To: " herbalist " Cc: Subject:

Preparing for childbirthHello HerbalistsI am expecting my first

baby in a few weeks. I havehad a trouble free (and rather enjoyable)

pregnancyand am planning a home birth with the support of thecommunity midwives.

I have been taking some herbs and have a good fewlined up for the event itself

if required!(I attendedthe excellent Pregnancy and Chilbirth seminar inJanuary).

I was wondering if anyone had any advice -herbal orotherwise from personal or

professional experiencethey would be happy to share about the labour andbirth,

the baby and the subsequent weeks....Many thanks and best wishes to

all.IngridSend instant messages to your online friends

http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

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[Guest guest]

Have you read stuff about active birth ? That for me was reallly useful. If you

go overdue and they suggest you are induced write back to the list. Otherwise

gentle herbs are great - and water. I used a bath/ shower for my first and a

birth pool for my second. This was the best pain relief for me. Also Susun Weed

suggests hypericum and scutellaria for pain - which worked for me with my second

child in a very rapid birth.Good luck and be prepared. Think about what you want

and write a birth plan. Have someone who will help you maintain that birth plan

when the time arrives. Practice yoga. I have had 2 children using only herbs and

homeopathy. breathing and conscious focus to deal with labour. Trust yourself

but don't give yourself a hard time if things don't go as you had planned.

Labour is the most intense thing that I have ever experienced but herbs are a

great support to be able to deal with this.

much love

mandy

dear Ingrid

Where to start? support!Best of luck and blessings

Green

Preparing for childbirth

> Hello Herbalists

>

> I am expecting my first baby in a few weeks. I have

> had a trouble free (and rather enjoyable) pregnancy

> and am planning a home birth with the support of the

> community midwives.

>

> I have been taking some herbs and have a good few

> lined up for the event itself if required!(I attended

> the excellent Pregnancy and Chilbirth seminar in

> January).

>

> I was wondering if anyone had any advice -herbal or

> otherwise from personal or professional experience

> they would be happy to share about the labour and

> birth, the baby and the subsequent weeks....

>

> Many thanks and best wishes to all.

>

> Ingrid

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

>

>

>

> List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH

>

[Guest guest]

Kim, Mandy, Tamsin, and .

Many thanks for your replies -

I have found all comments both useful and interesting,

excellent food for thought in the sweltering heat...

All the very best.

Ingrid

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

[Guest guest]

Dear Ingrid,

Glad you found all the posts by others made helpful. Rather

belatedly, but hopefully not to late for you, I wanted to add a few

things

1. Regarding someone who suggested taking Cimicifuga and

Caullophyllum to help labour, some time ago I went to a Tierrona

Lowdog seminar and she was very clear about the different use of

these two - that Cimicifuga was good as a muscle relaxant if uterine

muscle tension was cause of ineffective contractions as too much

muscletone (like Vib.op for spastic constipation) and Caullophyllum

had the opposite effect as in helping to increase muscle tone where

the uterus was too flaccid and thus producing only weak contractions

(like using stimulating laxative in atonic constipation). So bearing

this in mind, I would be wary of using the two in combination...

perhaps best wait and see how things go, and given how well you have

been looking after yourself during pregnancy, there is no law that

says you need anything!!!

If you are opting for a home delivery, having regu;lar soaks in the

bath is a good second to waterbirthing, if that is not an option,

and not to forget that there is a royal tradition of using C.sativa

for pain relief if you don't mind bending the law - Queen Vic

apparently had the royal kitchens go into major hash cookie

production for each labour! (but you didn't hear it from me!!)

3. If labour is still hard and tiring, or if baby is in a difficult

position, I cannot stress enough how absolutely amazing it is to

have an acupuncturist to hand... After a history of great

pregnancies and horrible long labours ending up in hospital twice,

my third labour was going the same way, esp given he got stuck part

way down as he was a brow presentation (worst after breach). My

acupuncturist friend intervened and during the first treatment, he

turned, and hten was born 10minutes later (third time lucky at

home!!!)My midwife who was very experienced was dumbstruck

Lastly, an even more controversial topic, which I dearly wish there

was less taboo around discussing, but hey - after suffering severe

postnatal depression first second round (and I must stress it is

less likely first time round unless very young), I was terrified the

same would happen again third time round so would have done anything

to avoid... so what I did, was have a mate cook up my placenta like

a beef bourginone, complete with shallots, mushrooms and red wine,

and I ate the lot!(this despite being a veggie at the time) There is

a very long tradition of eating one's placenta, and we all know that

herbivores do it, yet it is still a huge taboo. Well, I can honestly

say I never felt better... no blues, and great energy levels. Makes

absolute sense when one thinks of all the hormones that get chucked

out with the placenta - (thinking of recent post about postpartum

psychosis here too) So why is it still so hard to talk about??? I

still have not told many close friends and family, and would not

recommend to pxs unless I felt very sure of the reaction... but I do

feel this is my own cowardice in collusion with societal taboos -

come on folks, any other placenta diners out there?? Would like to

hear others' views on the subject. It tastes fine, there are lots of

recipes around, and you can ask the hospital to give it to you

before leaving (I did that second time round but buried it under a

tree instead of eating it)

All the best for your big day Ingrid,

Noreenx

>

> Kim, Mandy, Tamsin, and .

>

> Many thanks for your replies -

>

> I have found all comments both useful and interesting,

> excellent food for thought in the sweltering heat...

>

> All the very best.

>

> Ingrid

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends

http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

>

[Guest guest]

Noreen

It's so refreshing to actually have someone say that they have gone and

done the placenta-meal thing! This is going to sound very gruesome, but

I have to ask: was it like normal meat/how was the texture, did it make

you feel sick at all??.... I will probably be facing that question in

the not too distant future and as a veggie, the thought of it (unless,

maybe, it was minced to remove all texture) is awful (never really could

handle sort of veiny meat)!!

Good on you!!

Schia

Schia MNIMH MIMHO

Medical Herbalist

Dublin and Belfast

www.dublinherbalist.com

noreenjlopez wrote:

>Dear Ingrid,

>Glad you found all the posts by others made helpful. Rather

>belatedly, but hopefully not to late for you, I wanted to add a few

>things

>1. Regarding someone who suggested taking Cimicifuga and

>Caullophyllum to help labour, some time ago I went to a Tierrona

>Lowdog seminar and she was very clear about the different use of

>these two - that Cimicifuga was good as a muscle relaxant if uterine

>muscle tension was cause of ineffective contractions as too much

>muscletone (like Vib.op for spastic constipation) and Caullophyllum

>had the opposite effect as in helping to increase muscle tone where

>the uterus was too flaccid and thus producing only weak contractions

>(like using stimulating laxative in atonic constipation). So bearing

>this in mind, I would be wary of using the two in combination...

>perhaps best wait and see how things go, and given how well you have

>been looking after yourself during pregnancy, there is no law that

>says you need anything!!!

>If you are opting for a home delivery, having regu;lar soaks in the

>bath is a good second to waterbirthing, if that is not an option,

>and not to forget that there is a royal tradition of using C.sativa

>for pain relief if you don't mind bending the law - Queen Vic

>apparently had the royal kitchens go into major hash cookie

>production for each labour! (but you didn't hear it from me!!)

>3. If labour is still hard and tiring, or if baby is in a difficult

>position, I cannot stress enough how absolutely amazing it is to

>have an acupuncturist to hand... After a history of great

>pregnancies and horrible long labours ending up in hospital twice,

>my third labour was going the same way, esp given he got stuck part

>way down as he was a brow presentation (worst after breach). My

>acupuncturist friend intervened and during the first treatment, he

>turned, and hten was born 10minutes later (third time lucky at

>home!!!)My midwife who was very experienced was dumbstruck

>

>Lastly, an even more controversial topic, which I dearly wish there

>was less taboo around discussing, but hey - after suffering severe

>postnatal depression first second round (and I must stress it is

>less likely first time round unless very young), I was terrified the

>same would happen again third time round so would have done anything

>to avoid... so what I did, was have a mate cook up my placenta like

>a beef bourginone, complete with shallots, mushrooms and red wine,

>and I ate the lot!(this despite being a veggie at the time) There is

>a very long tradition of eating one's placenta, and we all know that

>herbivores do it, yet it is still a huge taboo. Well, I can honestly

>say I never felt better... no blues, and great energy levels. Makes

>absolute sense when one thinks of all the hormones that get chucked

>out with the placenta - (thinking of recent post about postpartum

>psychosis here too) So why is it still so hard to talk about??? I

>still have not told many close friends and family, and would not

>recommend to pxs unless I felt very sure of the reaction... but I do

>feel this is my own cowardice in collusion with societal taboos -

>come on folks, any other placenta diners out there?? Would like to

>hear others' views on the subject. It tastes fine, there are lots of

>recipes around, and you can ask the hospital to give it to you

>before leaving (I did that second time round but buried it under a

>tree instead of eating it)

>All the best for your big day Ingrid,

>Noreenx

>

>

>

>

>

>>Kim, Mandy, Tamsin, and .

>>

>>Many thanks for your replies -

>>

>>I have found all comments both useful and interesting,

>>excellent food for thought in the sweltering heat...

>>

>>All the very best.

>>

>>Ingrid

>>

>>Send instant messages to your online friends

>>

>>

>http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Schia,

Don't worry about asking the question - its got to be asked... I

found it to be similar to very tender liver - not the cooked to

death dried up leather variety we used to get served in school, but

tender, similar texture to gourmet liver, and really ok - I dare say

the red wine and garlic helped considerably!. I was lucky though

that the friend who cooked it for me was a chef, so may depend on

the expertise of the cook. I must admit to the fact that although I

was an " on-principle " veggie for years and even a vegan for some

time, I am a carnivore by nature, and seriously craved meat both in

pregnancy and during PMS times (and blood type O, so maybe there is

something in the whole eat-right-for your-type thing)Hence decision

eventually to listen to my body and eat meat - organic - in

moderation. Since I do actually like meat, I am not the best person

to ask about the taste, as it was just the taboo, not the taste I

had to overcome.

I'm sure I can't be the only one out there, so folks the gauntlet is

thrown - confession time, please - before everyone labels me as the

only truly crazy herbalist here!!

All the best

Noreen

ps, despite being a carnivore, the idea of minced liver somewhat

turns my stomach - reminiscent of the liquid iron formulations

prescribed when other types disagree

--- In ukherbal-list , Schia

wrote

> Noreen

> It's so refreshing to actually have someone say that they have

gone and

> done the placenta-meal thing! This is going to sound very

gruesome, but

> I have to ask: was it like normal meat/how was the texture, did

it make

> you feel sick at all??.... I will probably be facing that question

in

> the not too distant future and as a veggie, the thought of it

(unless,

> maybe, it was minced to remove all texture) is awful (never really

could

> handle sort of veiny meat)!!

>

> Good on you!!

>

> Schia

[Guest guest]

Hello again,

A quick search reveals this site which gives a few different options

and recipes, including both minced placenta spag.bol & lasagne, and

also a trad chinese medicine method of preparation, so that it can

be dried, powdered and made into capsules - sounds like a good

option for the squeamish

Noreenxx

http://www.geocities.com/virtualbirth/placenta.html

>

>

> Noreen

> It's so refreshing to actually have someone say that they have

gone and

> done the placenta-meal thing! This is going to sound very

gruesome, but

> I have to ask: was it like normal meat/how was the texture, did

it make

> you feel sick at all??.... I will probably be facing that question

in

> the not too distant future and as a veggie, the thought of it

(unless,

> maybe, it was minced to remove all texture) is awful (never really

could

> handle sort of veiny meat)!!

>

> Good on you!!

>

> Schia

[Guest guest]

Never managed to do this myself (mother in law, don't ask!) but I

thought the placenta looked really delicious! Big lump of prime meat,

with the added bonus of no living creature dying to provide it. Wow!

(and all those hormones too)

Sally O.

>

> Noreen

> It's so refreshing to actually have someone say that they have gone

> and

> done the placenta-meal thing! This is going to sound very gruesome,

> but

> I have to ask: was it like normal meat/how was the texture, did it

> make

> you feel sick at all??.... I will probably be facing that question in

> the not too distant future and as a veggie, the thought of it (unless,

> maybe, it was minced to remove all texture) is awful (never really

> could

> handle sort of veiny meat)!!

>

> Good on you!!

>

> Schia

>

> Schia MNIMH MIMHO

> Medical Herbalist

> Dublin and Belfast

> www.dublinherbalist.com

>

> noreenjlopez wrote:

>

> >Dear Ingrid,

> >Glad you found all the posts by others made helpful. Rather

> >belatedly, but hopefully not to late for you, I wanted to add a few

> >things

> >1. Regarding someone who suggested taking Cimicifuga and

> >Caullophyllum to help labour, some time ago I went to a Tierrona

> >Lowdog seminar and she was very clear about the different use of

> >these two - that Cimicifuga was good as a muscle relaxant if uterine

> >muscle tension was cause of ineffective contractions as too much

> >muscletone (like Vib.op for spastic constipation) and Caullophyllum

> >had the opposite effect as in helping to increase muscle tone where

> >the uterus was too flaccid and thus producing only weak contractions

> >(like using stimulating laxative in atonic constipation). So bearing

> >this in mind, I would be wary of using the two in combination...

> >perhaps best wait and see how things go, and given how well you have

> >been looking after yourself during pregnancy, there is no law that

> >says you need anything!!!

> >If you are opting for a home delivery, having regu;lar soaks in the

> >bath is a good second to waterbirthing, if that is not an option,

> >and not to forget that there is a royal tradition of using C.sativa

> >for pain relief if you don't mind bending the law - Queen Vic

> >apparently had the royal kitchens go into major hash cookie

> >production for each labour! (but you didn't hear it from me!!)

> >3. If labour is still hard and tiring, or if baby is in a difficult

> >position, I cannot stress enough how absolutely amazing it is to

> >have an acupuncturist to hand... After a history of great

> >pregnancies and horrible long labours ending up in hospital twice,

> >my third labour was going the same way, esp given he got stuck part

> >way down as he was a brow presentation (worst after breach). My

> >acupuncturist friend intervened and during the first treatment, he

> >turned, and hten was born 10minutes later (third time lucky at

> >home!!!)My midwife who was very experienced was dumbstruck

> >

> >Lastly, an even more controversial topic, which I dearly wish there

> >was less taboo around discussing, but hey - after suffering severe

> >postnatal depression first second round (and I must stress it is

> >less likely first time round unless very young), I was terrified the

> >same would happen again third time round so would have done anything

> >to avoid... so what I did, was have a mate cook up my placenta like

> >a beef bourginone, complete with shallots, mushrooms and red wine,

> >and I ate the lot!(this despite being a veggie at the time) There is

> >a very long tradition of eating one's placenta, and we all know that

> >herbivores do it, yet it is still a huge taboo. Well, I can honestly

> >say I never felt better... no blues, and great energy levels. Makes

> >absolute sense when one thinks of all the hormones that get chucked

> >out with the placenta - (thinking of recent post about postpartum

> >psychosis here too) So why is it still so hard to talk about??? I

> >still have not told many close friends and family, and would not

> >recommend to pxs unless I felt very sure of the reaction... but I do

> >feel this is my own cowardice in collusion with societal taboos -

> >come on folks, any other placenta diners out there?? Would like to

> >hear others' views on the subject. It tastes fine, there are lots of

> >recipes around, and you can ask the hospital to give it to you

> >before leaving (I did that second time round but buried it under a

> >tree instead of eating it)

> >All the best for your big day Ingrid,

> >Noreenx

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >>Kim, Mandy, Tamsin, and .

> >>

> >>Many thanks for your replies -

> >>

> >>I have found all comments both useful and interesting,

> >>excellent food for thought in the sweltering heat...

> >>

> >>All the very best.

> >>

> >>Ingrid

> >>

> >>Send instant messages to your online friends

> >>

> >>

> >http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH

> >

[Guest guest]

I'm blood group O too, Noreen, maybe we could do a poll, I'm quite

intrigued as to how much truth there is in the blood group diet theory.

(I'm definitely a keen carnivore, and found being a vegetarian really

difficult when I was - 7 years strictly, then off and on for years)

Sally O

> Never managed to do this myself (mother in law, don't ask!) but I

> thought the placenta looked really delicious! Big lump of prime meat,

> with the added bonus of no living creature dying to provide it. Wow!

> (and all those hormones too)

> Sally O.

>

>

> >

> > Noreen

> > It's so refreshing to actually have someone say that they have gone

> > and

> > done the placenta-meal thing! This is going to sound very gruesome,

> > but

> > I have to ask: was it like normal meat/how was the texture, did it

> > make

> > you feel sick at all??.... I will probably be facing that question

> in

> > the not too distant future and as a veggie, the thought of it

> (unless,

> > maybe, it was minced to remove all texture) is awful (never really

> > could

> > handle sort of veiny meat)!!

> >

> > Good on you!!

> >

> > Schia

> >

> > Schia MNIMH MIMHO

> > Medical Herbalist

> > Dublin and Belfast

> > www.dublinherbalist.com

> >

> > noreenjlopez wrote:

> >

> > >Dear Ingrid,

> > >Glad you found all the posts by others made helpful. Rather

> > >belatedly, but hopefully not to late for you, I wanted to add a few

> > >things

> > >1. Regarding someone who suggested taking Cimicifuga and

> > >Caullophyllum to help labour, some time ago I went to a Tierrona

> > >Lowdog seminar and she was very clear about the different use of

> > >these two - that Cimicifuga was good as a muscle relaxant if

> uterine

> > >muscle tension was cause of ineffective contractions as too much

> > >muscletone (like Vib.op for spastic constipation) and Caullophyllum

> > >had the opposite effect as in helping to increase muscle tone where

> > >the uterus was too flaccid and thus producing only weak

> contractions

> > >(like using stimulating laxative in atonic constipation). So

> bearing

> > >this in mind, I would be wary of using the two in combination...

> > >perhaps best wait and see how things go, and given how well you

> have

> > >been looking after yourself during pregnancy, there is no law that

> > >says you need anything!!!

> > >If you are opting for a home delivery, having regu;lar soaks in the

> > >bath is a good second to waterbirthing, if that is not an option,

> > >and not to forget that there is a royal tradition of using C.sativa

> > >for pain relief if you don't mind bending the law - Queen Vic

> > >apparently had the royal kitchens go into major hash cookie

> > >production for each labour! (but you didn't hear it from me!!)

> > >3. If labour is still hard and tiring, or if baby is in a difficult

> > >position, I cannot stress enough how absolutely amazing it is to

> > >have an acupuncturist to hand... After a history of great

> > >pregnancies and horrible long labours ending up in hospital twice,

> > >my third labour was going the same way, esp given he got stuck part

> > >way down as he was a brow presentation (worst after breach). My

> > >acupuncturist friend intervened and during the first treatment, he

> > >turned, and hten was born 10minutes later (third time lucky at

> > >home!!!)My midwife who was very experienced was dumbstruck

> > >

> > >Lastly, an even more controversial topic, which I dearly wish there

> > >was less taboo around discussing, but hey - after suffering severe

> > >postnatal depression first second round (and I must stress it is

> > >less likely first time round unless very young), I was terrified

> the

> > >same would happen again third time round so would have done

> anything

> > >to avoid... so what I did, was have a mate cook up my placenta like

> > >a beef bourginone, complete with shallots, mushrooms and red wine,

> > >and I ate the lot!(this despite being a veggie at the time) There

> is

> > >a very long tradition of eating one's placenta, and we all know

> that

> > >herbivores do it, yet it is still a huge taboo. Well, I can

> honestly

> > >say I never felt better... no blues, and great energy levels. Makes

> > >absolute sense when one thinks of all the hormones that get chucked

> > >out with the placenta - (thinking of recent post about postpartum

> > >psychosis here too) So why is it still so hard to talk about??? I

> > >still have not told many close friends and family, and would not

> > >recommend to pxs unless I felt very sure of the reaction... but I

> do

> > >feel this is my own cowardice in collusion with societal taboos -

> > >come on folks, any other placenta diners out there?? Would like to

> > >hear others' views on the subject. It tastes fine, there are lots

> of

> > >recipes around, and you can ask the hospital to give it to you

> > >before leaving (I did that second time round but buried it under a

> > >tree instead of eating it)

> > >All the best for your big day Ingrid,

> > >Noreenx

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >>Kim, Mandy, Tamsin, and .

> > >>

> > >>Many thanks for your replies -

> > >>

> > >>I have found all comments both useful and interesting,

> > >>excellent food for thought in the sweltering heat...

> > >>

> > >>All the very best.

> > >>

> > >>Ingrid

> > >>

> > >>Send instant messages to your online friends

> > >>

> > >>

> > >http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH

> > >

[Guest guest]

Ok Sally you might be off on a different tack here but for what it's worth I'm

an 'A' which is supposed to be the archetypal vegetarian. Means i'm supposed to

eat grains but guess what - put wheat anywhere near me and watch me deteriorate

into mess. I used to bake all my own bread too - but these days even if I handle

wheat I get a rash! Tried Spelt - no difference. Incidetnally it was through

being made quite ill at various times that i discovered just where wheat can

appear - helps inform patients though. e.g chocolate moulds are often covered in

wheat so chocolate comes out easily. Some preservatives are wheat based. Some

glucose syrup is wheat based. The tiniest crumb will kae me rival Ingrid in size

probably but whereas she has taken 7-8 months to get to this size, I can do it

in 2- 3 hours. followd by a whole array of symptoms and arthritis in my fingers

for about 10 days. I was veggie for about 14 years, apart from about 9 months

(last pregnancy) when i craved STEAK and just had to indulge at least once a

week. Finally fell apart when i had really bad flu (nearly died for 2nd time in

my life from flu - if avian flu mutates I'll expect a nice funeral with happy

dancing herbalists present) and listened to my body saying it needed first class

protein to recover - have been eating meat ever since, but these days I eat more

fish than meat. I feel best when I eat loads of veg or salad plus a little fish

or lean meat (organic if poss)

So, for me at least eating right for my type would probably kill me.

[Guest guest]

Hi Sally, No I didn't actually manage to do this but as a smallholder saw

goats doing so at each birth, and left them to it.

When I had my own children I always insisted on seeing the placenta and I

think it was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen, a whole life support

system. Well no not quite the most beautiful, the babies were that.

I can quite see how valuable it could be.

-----

[Guest guest]

Sally

There was a good response on the subject of the blood group based diet by

Micheal McIntyre - look up the archives (2-3 years ago, I think). Basically it

said that the science behind the theory was dodgy.

Sally Owen wrote:

I'm blood group O too, Noreen, maybe we could do a poll, I'm quite

intrigued as to how much truth there is in the blood group diet theory.

(I'm definitely a keen carnivore, and found being a vegetarian really

difficult when I was - 7 years strictly, then off and on for years)

Sally O

> Never managed to do this myself (mother in law, don't ask!) but I

> thought the placenta looked really delicious! Big lump of prime meat,

> with the added bonus of no living creature dying to provide it. Wow!

> (and all those hormones too)

> Sally O.

>

>

> >

> > Noreen

> > It's so refreshing to actually have someone say that they have gone

> > and

> > done the placenta-meal thing! This is going to sound very gruesome,

> > but

> > I have to ask: was it like normal meat/how was the texture, did it

> > make

> > you feel sick at all??.... I will probably be facing that question

> in

> > the not too distant future and as a veggie, the thought of it

> (unless,

> > maybe, it was minced to remove all texture) is awful (never really

> > could

> > handle sort of veiny meat)!!

> >

> > Good on you!!

> >

> > Schia

> >

> > Schia MNIMH MIMHO

> > Medical Herbalist

> > Dublin and Belfast

> > www.dublinherbalist.com

> >

> > noreenjlopez wrote:

> >

> > >Dear Ingrid,

> > >Glad you found all the posts by others made helpful. Rather

> > >belatedly, but hopefully not to late for you, I wanted to add a few

> > >things

> > >1. Regarding someone who suggested taking Cimicifuga and

> > >Caullophyllum to help labour, some time ago I went to a Tierrona

> > >Lowdog seminar and she was very clear about the different use of

> > >these two - that Cimicifuga was good as a muscle relaxant if

> uterine

> > >muscle tension was cause of ineffective contractions as too much

> > >muscletone (like Vib.op for spastic constipation) and Caullophyllum

> > >had the opposite effect as in helping to increase muscle tone where

> > >the uterus was too flaccid and thus producing only weak

> contractions

> > >(like using stimulating laxative in atonic constipation). So

> bearing

> > >this in mind, I would be wary of using the two in combination...

> > >perhaps best wait and see how things go, and given how well you

> have

> > >been looking after yourself during pregnancy, there is no law that

> > >says you need anything!!!

> > >If you are opting for a home delivery, having regu;lar soaks in the

> > >bath is a good second to waterbirthing, if that is not an option,

> > >and not to forget that there is a royal tradition of using C.sativa

> > >for pain relief if you don't mind bending the law - Queen Vic

> > >apparently had the royal kitchens go into major hash cookie

> > >production for each labour! (but you didn't hear it from me!!)

> > >3. If labour is still hard and tiring, or if baby is in a difficult

> > >position, I cannot stress enough how absolutely amazing it is to

> > >have an acupuncturist to hand... After a history of great

> > >pregnancies and horrible long labours ending up in hospital twice,

> > >my third labour was going the same way, esp given he got stuck part

> > >way down as he was a brow presentation (worst after breach). My

> > >acupuncturist friend intervened and during the first treatment, he

> > >turned, and hten was born 10minutes later (third time lucky at

> > >home!!!)My midwife who was very experienced was dumbstruck

> > >

> > >Lastly, an even more controversial topic, which I dearly wish there

> > >was less taboo around discussing, but hey - after suffering severe

> > >postnatal depression first second round (and I must stress it is

> > >less likely first time round unless very young), I was terrified

> the

> > >same would happen again third time round so would have done

> anything

> > >to avoid... so what I did, was have a mate cook up my placenta like

> > >a beef bourginone, complete with shallots, mushrooms and red wine,

> > >and I ate the lot!(this despite being a veggie at the time) There

> is

> > >a very long tradition of eating one's placenta, and we all know

> that

> > >herbivores do it, yet it is still a huge taboo. Well, I can

> honestly

> > >say I never felt better... no blues, and great energy levels. Makes

> > >absolute sense when one thinks of all the hormones that get chucked

> > >out with the placenta - (thinking of recent post about postpartum

> > >psychosis here too) So why is it still so hard to talk about??? I

> > >still have not told many close friends and family, and would not

> > >recommend to pxs unless I felt very sure of the reaction... but I

> do

> > >feel this is my own cowardice in collusion with societal taboos -

> > >come on folks, any other placenta diners out there?? Would like to

> > >hear others' views on the subject. It tastes fine, there are lots

> of

> > >recipes around, and you can ask the hospital to give it to you

> > >before leaving (I did that second time round but buried it under a

> > >tree instead of eating it)

> > >All the best for your big day Ingrid,

> > >Noreenx

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >>Kim, Mandy, Tamsin, and .

> > >>

> > >>Many thanks for your replies -

> > >>

> > >>I have found all comments both useful and interesting,

> > >>excellent food for thought in the sweltering heat...

> > >>

> > >>All the very best.

> > >>

> > >>Ingrid

> > >>

> > >>Send instant messages to your online friends

> > >>

> > >>

> > >http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH

> > >

[Guest guest]

Dear All ,

Coming from a farming background , I wish to make a few points on the

placenta debate .

If cattle eat the placenta it is generally a sign of stress , either

nutritional or social , ie overcrowding . In nature , cattle and most

animals go away on their own to give birth , and avoid contact with their

own kind . placental eating is only done by the mother . In modern farming

systems it is often the case that there is no " privacy " , and other animals

will eat the placenta of another cow , sheep very rarely do this .. This

has resulted in greatly increasing the spread of 2 of the most serious

diseases in livewstock , TB and brucellosis .

Some mention has been made of cooking the placenta , and eating it as a

source of " hormones " for women . Cooking will denature all peptide and

steroidal structures , so I cannot see the sense in this . In ancient

cultures , vitally important nutritional animal parts , eg , the testes and

eyes are eaten immediately after death . I saw my grandfather eating a lambs

testicle as soon as it was removed in castration , and S.American hunters

eat the eyes of their prey immediately after death , as the EFA content is

at full potential and concentration , efa's levels drops rapidly on death .

I think that this debate is potentially a very explosive and damaging debate

if it got out to the public that NIMH members are advocating canabalistic

practices .Very serious health and ethical issues are at stake . We dont

need to do these things to have normal and fulfilling childbirth experiences

..

Some might say , you are a man , what do you know . The birth of man and

animals has sustained my family for generations . I have had the priviledge

to attend to and help hundreds/thousands of births of animals , and was

thought to have reverence and respect for all animals at this beautiful time

by my graeat teacher , my uncle , , and to help in a way that will not

damage the health of man or animal , and to employ practices that will

sustain the health of both plant , animal and man .

I have studied veterinary medicine as part of my primary degree in animal

reproductive physiology and nutrition , and know that these type of

practices being debated can have drastic consequences for man and animal .

It was the feeding of meat and bone meal to their own spoecies that caused

CJD , and the long term health effects of this will not be known for many

years yet .

I would advise to pull back from this debate , and to not encourage such

practices .

Emmett Walsh

RE: Re: Preparing for childbirth

> Hi Sally, No I didn't actually manage to do this but as a smallholder saw

> goats doing so at each birth, and left them to it.

> When I had my own children I always insisted on seeing the placenta and I

> think it was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen, a whole life

> support

> system. Well no not quite the most beautiful, the babies were that.

> I can quite see how valuable it could be.

>

> -----

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Emmett,

I just thought I'd point out that I don't think any one was thinking of

eating other women's placentas - just one's own after childbirth. And,

I think it would be generally acknowledged that is a very personal

choice. We were sharing personal thoughts and experiences. I don't

think that anyone was particularly advocating that we try to spread this

practice to the masses.

Schia .

Schia MNIMH MIMHO

Medical Herbalist

Dublin and Belfast

www.dublinherbalist.com

Emmett Walsh wrote:

>Dear All ,

>

>Coming from a farming background , I wish to make a few points on the

>placenta debate .

>If cattle eat the placenta it is generally a sign of stress , either

>nutritional or social , ie overcrowding . In nature , cattle and most

>animals go away on their own to give birth , and avoid contact with their

>own kind . placental eating is only done by the mother . In modern farming

>systems it is often the case that there is no " privacy " , and other animals

>will eat the placenta of another cow , sheep very rarely do this .. This

>has resulted in greatly increasing the spread of 2 of the most serious

>diseases in livewstock , TB and brucellosis .

>Some mention has been made of cooking the placenta , and eating it as a

>source of " hormones " for women . Cooking will denature all peptide and

>steroidal structures , so I cannot see the sense in this . In ancient

>cultures , vitally important nutritional animal parts , eg , the testes and

>eyes are eaten immediately after death . I saw my grandfather eating a lambs

>testicle as soon as it was removed in castration , and S.American hunters

>eat the eyes of their prey immediately after death , as the EFA content is

>at full potential and concentration , efa's levels drops rapidly on death .

>

>I think that this debate is potentially a very explosive and damaging debate

>if it got out to the public that NIMH members are advocating canabalistic

>practices .Very serious health and ethical issues are at stake . We dont

>need to do these things to have normal and fulfilling childbirth experiences

>.

>Some might say , you are a man , what do you know . The birth of man and

>animals has sustained my family for generations . I have had the priviledge

>to attend to and help hundreds/thousands of births of animals , and was

>thought to have reverence and respect for all animals at this beautiful time

>by my graeat teacher , my uncle , , and to help in a way that will not

>damage the health of man or animal , and to employ practices that will

>sustain the health of both plant , animal and man .

>I have studied veterinary medicine as part of my primary degree in animal

>reproductive physiology and nutrition , and know that these type of

>practices being debated can have drastic consequences for man and animal .

> It was the feeding of meat and bone meal to their own spoecies that caused

>CJD , and the long term health effects of this will not be known for many

>years yet .

>I would advise to pull back from this debate , and to not encourage such

>practices .

>

>Emmett Walsh

>

>

> RE: Re: Preparing for childbirth

>

>

>

>

>>Hi Sally, No I didn't actually manage to do this but as a smallholder saw

>>goats doing so at each birth, and left them to it.

>>When I had my own children I always insisted on seeing the placenta and I

>>think it was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen, a whole life

>>support

>>system. Well no not quite the most beautiful, the babies were that.

>>I can quite see how valuable it could be.

>>

>>-----

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH

>>

[Guest guest]

Oh dear oh dear,

Emmett, I think you've got altogether the wrong end of the stick (or

rather the placenta) here!!! As human beings, generally we do not

give birth in cramped over-crowded conditions where we might

accidentally eat the wrong placenta. Nor do we generally swap, buy,

sell or otherwise exchange them! Eating one's own placenta is an age

old practice in most cultures, is still considered a very important

one in TCM, and is actually recommended by many more aware western

trained midwives!You yourself do point out that:

>>> In nature ....placental eating is only done by the mother...

Obviously all the safe hygiene practices one would expect for the

storage and preparation of any form of meat still apply. Unless I

already had CJD, TB etc I can hardly infect myself by eating my own

placenta. As for the ethics of the matter, the thing about a

placenta as previously pointed out by another listee, is that it is

the only form of meat that does not involve harm to another living

being when eaten, thus making it ethically acceptable for

vegetarians. As for the denaturing of the hormones, sure,

overcooking will certainly destroy them, I do not dispute that at

all, which is why the cooking process is important. I cannot

personally vouch for the Chinese practice of cooking then drying so

that it can be powdered and encapsulated, but I trust that with

their ancient expertise in preparations they know what they are

doing (which does not mean I am in favour of using other animal

products) All I know from my own experience is that having suffered

very severe postpartum depression previously, I felt great after

eating my placenta, and many other women have reported the same.

As for the explosive nature of this discussion - well I knew when I

started that societal taboos being what they are, it would be. But

surely we are discussing therapeutics here,in a safe professional

environment, and if midwives can talk about eating placentas, why

can't herbalists? I do not propose we go out on national tv with the

debate (yet!!) Am waiting for that til I get onto Big Brother ;>)

With warm (and not bloody) regards

Noreen

>

> Dear All ,

>

> Coming from a farming background , I wish to make a few points on

the

> placenta debate .

[Guest guest]

Dear Kim,

Would I beable to egt a copy of your dissertation, I seem to be getting a

lot of pregnant patients at present looking for herbal support.

Thanks,

Sally Moorcroft

>

>Reply-To: ukherbal-list

>To: <ukherbal-list >

>Subject: RE: Preparing for childbirth

>Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 21:53:30 +0100

>

>Dear Ingrid

>

>I have not been on the list very long but your post has spurred me into

>action to make my first reply. Having your first baby is such an

>incredible

>time but there are so many unknowns. Having three children of my own and

>having worked as a Doula for the last 4 years I have found only one thing

>for certain and that is every single one of us is different!! An old

>midwife friend of mine always said: 'all women need help giving birth! But

>some need more help than others' and this is ultimately true.

>

>Have good people to support you, people that know when to get stuck in and

>when to withdraw, when to rub your back and when to go out and make a cup

>of

>tea. When you are in labour you need the people around you to be

>instinctive and not ask questions - Odent suggests that you need

>to

>be able to withdraw into your 'primitive brain' somewhere where you are

>conscious but not 'Conscious'. He also suggests that in order to access

>this primitive space the labouring woman needs to feel safe, warm,

>unobserved, and calm (almost the same criteria as if you were trying to go

>to sleep) and that if you cant achieve this it will be harder to produce

>the

>cocktail of hormones necessary for a progressive labour. In other words

>the

>'stress hormones' actively inhibit the production of 'labour/love' hormones

>needed to keep the contractions doing their thing. This is seen time and

>time again when a woman's labour comes to a grinding halt the minute she

>enters the 'hospital'. Home birth is a great help with all this as long as

>the people involved are not overly stressed about it!!

>

>Water is a fantastic analgesic as long as it is not used too early which

>can

>slow the labour down. Generally it is considered to be the next step when

>a

>woman is becoming a little overwhelmed or in too much pain. A birthing

>pool

>should not be used as a place to 'hang out' during the labour - it is a

>natural form of pain killer and should be used as such. It is suggested

>that you should not get into the pool until you are Approx. 5cm dilated.

>This can be used as a guideline if you are being examined regularly. I

>found the birthing pool invaluable during two of my labours.

>

>I also did my dissertation on the use of herbs during childbirth. There

>were many herbs identified for specific aspects of labour but overall the

>herbs most often cited by practising herbalists were those herbs we all

>know

>that help to reduce stress and keep us calm. I used a mix of Rubus s,

>Matricaria, Passiflora and Lavandula as a tea and Valariana, Eleuthrococcus

>s, Scutellaria, Vib op and Leonurus cardiaca as a Tincture all through the

>birth of my last child and had a wonderful time!. I couldn't tell you if

>it

>was the herbs or another factor but what ever it was it worked!! It's

>certainly worth a try. Obviously there are other herbs for other specific

>situations but these or similar herbs can do little harm in a normal

>situation.

>

>As one of the other herbalists mentioned, visualisation worked very well

>for

>me as well. I was taught to visualise my cervix 'opening up like a

>flower'.

>My partner thought this was very funny! especially as apparently I kept

>saying it over and over! But what ever

>It takes I say!!

>

>Lastly (for tonight anyway) my midwife friend swears by Irn Bru!!!! Not

>very holistic I know, but she says that the sugar in it is more bio

>available and therefore gets straight to where it is needed. It has to be

>said that both she and my partner are Scots so perhaps this was a

>conspiracy

>on their behalf (I would not normally allow the stuff in the house) but

>when

>I was tired and physically spent it really did seem to hit the spot!! If

>this idea is abhorrent to you then perhaps try a banana and some sort of

>sugary fizzy drink that you like!

>

>(I'm sure there will be loads that I think of later but perhaps I will

>write

>again)

>

>Good luck and try to enjoy the one of the most powerful experiences of your

>life.

>All the best Kim

>

>

>

> Re: Preparing for childbirth

>

>Have you read stuff about active birth ? That for me was reallly useful. If

>you go overdue and they suggest you are induced write back to the list.

>Otherwise gentle herbs are great - and water. I used a bath/ shower for my

>first and a birth pool for my second. This was the best pain relief for me.

>Also Susun Weed suggests hypericum and scutellaria for pain - which worked

>for me with my second child in a very rapid birth.Good luck and be

>prepared.

>Think about what you want and write a birth plan. Have someone who will

>help

>you maintain that birth plan when the time arrives. Practice yoga. I have

>had 2 children using only herbs and homeopathy. breathing and conscious

>focus to deal with labour. Trust yourself but don't give yourself a hard

>time if things don't go as you had planned. Labour is the most intense

>thing

>that I have ever experienced but herbs are a great support to be able to

>deal with this.

> much love

> mandy

>

>

> dear Ingrid

>Where to start? support!Best of luck and blessings

> Green

> Preparing for childbirth

>

>

> > Hello Herbalists

> >

> > I am expecting my first baby in a few weeks. I have

> > had a trouble free (and rather enjoyable) pregnancy

> > and am planning a home birth with the support of the

> > community midwives.

> >

> > I have been taking some herbs and have a good few

> > lined up for the event itself if required!(I attended

> > the excellent Pregnancy and Chilbirth seminar in

> > January).

> >

> > I was wondering if anyone had any advice -herbal or

> > otherwise from personal or professional experience

> > they would be happy to share about the labour and

> > birth, the baby and the subsequent weeks....

> >

> > Many thanks and best wishes to all.

> >

> > Ingrid

> >

> > Send instant messages to your online friends

>http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

> >

> >

> >

> > List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH

> >