Guest guest Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Dear all I would really like to hear some debate on that question, if anyone can help? Hayley x ovulation Dear all, I'm treating a female Pt for haemorrhoids, which have vastly improved, though worsening around day 7 of her cycle persists. My question: she is convinced her ovulation always occurs on day 7 (has spinnable mucous around that day) and that after that it's 21 days till her period, not 14. I didn't think the luteal phase was variable to that degree. Is it possible?? What would induce the corpus luteum to survive that long? could low prolactin levels be responsible? (my Lapraz notes tell me that prolactin peak on day 20 inhibits LHRH, one of the factors leading to disappearance of corpus luteum?) Many thanks! Sabine Sabine Hiller BSc(Hons) MIIMH MNIMH Medical Herbalist Knockrooskey Westport Co.Mayo Tel. 098-35909 herbalist@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 >Dear Sabine, It could be possible that your patient has a luteal phase of 21 days! But not common! Generally significant low prolactin levels would cause anovulation or amenorrhoea. I would check for ovulation using other fertility signs such temperature charting (take temp every morning at the same time before getting out of bed this should show a rise just after ovulation) or use an ovulation kit which measures the LH surge just before ovulation. Check how many days fertile cervical fluid is obvious as this can be several days, often after ovulation cervical fluid dries up, and it is estimated that the last day of fertile fluid is optimum fertlity. If all else is well with her and her menstruation then this may be the norm for her. If her cycle fluctuates then there is a problem. Any charting should be done for 3 mths really to get a more accurate idea of her cycle.If this is her true cycle it is great she knows for possible fertility reasons and also allows being in touch with her body and energy changes! Hope all this helps! from x > Dear all > I would really like to hear some debate on that question, if anyone can > help? > Hayley x > > ovulation > > > Dear all, > > I'm treating a female Pt for haemorrhoids, which have vastly improved, > though worsening around day 7 of her cycle persists. My question: she is > convinced her ovulation always occurs on day 7 (has spinnable mucous around > that day) and that after that it's 21 days till her period, not 14. > > I didn't think the luteal phase was variable to that degree. Is it > possible?? What would induce the corpus luteum to survive that long? could > low prolactin levels be responsible? (my Lapraz notes tell me that prolactin > peak on day 20 inhibits LHRH, one of the factors leading to disappearance of > corpus luteum?) > > Many thanks! > Sabine > > Sabine Hiller BSc(Hons) MIIMH MNIMH > Medical Herbalist > Knockrooskey > Westport > Co.Mayo > Tel. 098-35909 > herbalist@... > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 Thanks ! Have you come across 21day luteal phase before? Pt has kids, is age 49. The reason I wanted to figure out what is going on hormonally is so we can make an impact on the cyclical flare-up of her haemorrhoids. And then choose a herb to address this. Has anybody any idea why and how such long luteal phase/low prolactin could worsen haemorrhoids?? Anybody well up on endobiogenics out there?? Any ideas? Many thanks! Sabine ----- Original Message ----- > It could be possible that your patient has a luteal phase of 21 days! But not common! > Generally significant low prolactin levels would cause anovulation or amenorrhoea. I > would check for ovulation using other fertility signs such temperature charting (take temp > every morning at the same time before getting out of bed this should show a rise just after > ovulation) or use an ovulation kit which measures the LH surge just before ovulation. > Check how many days fertile cervical fluid is obvious as this can be several days, often > after ovulation cervical fluid dries up, and it is estimated that the last day of fertile fluid is > optimum fertlity. If all else is well with her and her menstruation then this may be the > norm for her. If her cycle fluctuates then there is a problem. Any charting should be done > for 3 mths really to get a more accurate idea of her cycle.If this is her true cycle it is great > she knows for possible fertility reasons and also allows being in touch with her body and > energy changes! Hope all this helps! > from x > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 >Hi Sabine, Not sure why and how haemorrhoids are worse due to long luteal phase as I havent come across this before, but I wondered if patients cycle is changing and if there are signs of menopausal change happening condidering her age. the menopause and changing hormone levels can have many different effects on our body and circulatory changes are one of them, could this be worth considering? Perhaps Agnus castus is worth a try here, and sinensis could also be condidered (CI if there is flooding or heavy bleeding) all the best, > Thanks ! Have you come across 21day luteal phase before? > Pt has kids, is age 49. The reason I wanted to figure out what is going on > hormonally is so we can make an impact on the cyclical flare-up of her > haemorrhoids. And then choose a herb to address this. Has anybody any idea > why and how such long luteal phase/low prolactin could worsen haemorrhoids?? > Anybody well up on endobiogenics out there?? > > Any ideas? > Many thanks! > Sabine > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > It could be possible that your patient has a luteal phase of 21 days! But > not common! > > Generally significant low prolactin levels would cause anovulation or > amenorrhoea. I > > would check for ovulation using other fertility signs such temperature > charting (take temp > > every morning at the same time before getting out of bed this should show > a rise just after > > ovulation) or use an ovulation kit which measures the LH surge just before > ovulation. > > Check how many days fertile cervical fluid is obvious as this can be > several days, often > > after ovulation cervical fluid dries up, and it is estimated that the last > day of fertile fluid is > > optimum fertlity. If all else is well with her and her menstruation then > this may be the > > norm for her. If her cycle fluctuates then there is a problem. Any > charting should be done > > for 3 mths really to get a more accurate idea of her cycle.If this is her > true cycle it is great > > she knows for possible fertility reasons and also allows being in touch > with her body and > > energy changes! Hope all this helps! > > from x > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 IBS is often worse with ovulation. Maybe treat similarly if there are bowel changes with cycle? Fidler --- Walters wrote: > > >Hi Sabine, Not sure why and how haemorrhoids are > worse due to long luteal phase as I > havent come across this before, but I wondered if > patients cycle is changing and if there > are signs of menopausal change happening condidering > her age. the menopause and > changing hormone levels can have many different > effects on our body and circulatory > changes are one of them, could this be worth > considering? Perhaps Agnus castus is worth > a try here, and sinensis could also be > condidered (CI if there is flooding or heavy > bleeding) all the best, > > Thanks ! Have you come across 21day luteal > phase before? > > Pt has kids, is age 49. The reason I wanted to > figure out what is going on > > hormonally is so we can make an impact on the > cyclical flare-up of her > > haemorrhoids. And then choose a herb to address > this. Has anybody any idea > > why and how such long luteal phase/low prolactin > could worsen haemorrhoids?? > > Anybody well up on endobiogenics out there?? > > > > Any ideas? > > Many thanks! > > Sabine > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > It could be possible that your patient has a > luteal phase of 21 days! But > > not common! > > > Generally significant low prolactin levels would > cause anovulation or > > amenorrhoea. I > > > would check for ovulation using other fertility > signs such temperature > > charting (take temp > > > every morning at the same time before getting > out of bed this should show > > a rise just after > > > ovulation) or use an ovulation kit which > measures the LH surge just before > > ovulation. > > > Check how many days fertile cervical fluid is > obvious as this can be > > several days, often > > > after ovulation cervical fluid dries up, and it > is estimated that the last > > day of fertile fluid is > > > optimum fertlity. If all else is well with her > and her menstruation then > > this may be the > > > norm for her. If her cycle fluctuates then > there is a problem. Any > > charting should be done > > > for 3 mths really to get a more accurate idea of > her cycle.If this is her > > true cycle it is great > > > she knows for possible fertility reasons and > also allows being in touch > > with her body and > > > energy changes! Hope all this helps! > > > from x > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Hello all I was told to remember the liver when treating haemorrhoids. Seems to me good advice as it will both aid the digestion and and hormone balance. (Is that " endobiogenic? " ) (sort of joking, I have heard of Doc Lapraz, but we were taught to consider the terrain back in the good old days too...., maybe called something else then.... too old and busy to remember right now..... anybody who has been remembering to take their gingko care to remind me? ) Also interesting stuff on long luteal phase, has Ruth Trickey got anything to say on it I wonder. Nice sunny day for biking here in Wales, but I've got work to do, pause for violins.... I think maybe we should set up a benevolent fund for worn out herbalists! ah no, I've got it, it's back to the herb cupboard ....Panax perhaps, and a chair by the burgeoning scutt if it's warm enough.. hoorah! for herbs! That reminds me, please wish me luck with my first proper garden workshop folks, and any good tips or pratfalls to avoid most welcome, atb SallyO MNIMH > > >Hi Sabine, Not sure why and how haemorrhoids are worse due to long > luteal phase as I > havent come across this before, but I wondered if patients cycle is > changing and if there > are signs of menopausal change happening condidering her age. the > menopause and > changing hormone levels can have many different effects on our body > and circulatory > changes are one of them, could this be worth considering? Perhaps > Agnus castus is worth > a try here, and sinensis could also be condidered (CI if > there is flooding or heavy > bleeding) all the best, > > Thanks ! Have you come across 21day luteal phase before? > > Pt has kids, is age 49. The reason I wanted to figure out what is > going on > > hormonally is so we can make an impact on the cyclical flare-up of > her > > haemorrhoids. And then choose a herb to address this. Has anybody > any idea > > why and how such long luteal phase/low prolactin could worsen > haemorrhoids?? > > Anybody well up on endobiogenics out there?? > > > > Any ideas? > > Many thanks! > > Sabine > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > It could be possible that your patient has a luteal phase of 21 > days! But > > not common! > > > Generally significant low prolactin levels would cause > anovulation or > > amenorrhoea. I > > > would check for ovulation using other fertility signs such > temperature > > charting (take temp > > > every morning at the same time before getting out of bed this > should show > > a rise just after > > > ovulation) or use an ovulation kit which measures the LH surge > just before > > ovulation. > > > Check how many days fertile cervical fluid is obvious as this can > be > > several days, often > > > after ovulation cervical fluid dries up, and it is estimated that > the last > > day of fertile fluid is > > > optimum fertlity. If all else is well with her and her > menstruation then > > this may be the > > > norm for her. If her cycle fluctuates then there is a problem. > Any > > charting should be done > > > for 3 mths really to get a more accurate idea of her cycle.If > this is her > > true cycle it is great > > > she knows for possible fertility reasons and also allows being in > touch > > with her body and > > > energy changes! Hope all this helps! > > > from x > > > > > > > > > > > > > List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Hi Sally, and Sabine I think, Sally it was just called treat the patient (as in whole patient and not just the condition they present with) Anyway Sabine - this might help you out with hormones, luteal phase and hamorrhoids. Years ago I had two patients who developed a recurrence of haemorrhoids after I gave them Vitex for PMT. Both of them had previously had piles (can I say that as it's shorter to type?) when pregnant and at no other time. Both had been pregnant four times. When they took Vitex they got piles, when they stopped they went away. I worked it out that as Vitex is progestogenic it was working on their blood vessels in the way progesterone does when woman is pregnant. Progesterone does all sorts of things like slackening ligaments to allow for growing foetus and preparation for birth. It can do this to blood vessels too whihc is why some women get the free gift of haemorrhoids during pregnancy (some get them from pushing out baby in childbirth). Since your patient gets piles during luteal phase, whihc is also longer than what is considered normal (but that might be normal for her) it might be possible that she has too much progesterone - so it all boils down to hormonal balance and effective liver function? Ever since then i have been carfeul with Vitex in women who had piles during pregnancy but haven't had any more instances like above. Hope that helps > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 Thanks everybody for replies! , Sally - no bowel Sx, but have been treating liver all along, which definitely helped. Pt has had this cycle for yrs and yrs, so unlikely due to peri-menopause. Thanks , that's very interesting! Strangely enough though, Pt also has premenstrual Sx of breast " heaviness " and a long Hx of breast lumps and multiple cysts, which to me would indicate that there is excess oestrogen if anything. After mulling it over for ages i decided to try Vitex, despite the luteal phase business - I'm due to hear from her any day, will let you know what impact it had on her Sx/cycle. Many thanks! Sabine Re: Re: ovulation > > > > Hi Sally, and Sabine > I think, Sally it was just called treat the patient (as in whole patient and not just the condition they present with) > Anyway Sabine - this might help you out with hormones, luteal phase and hamorrhoids. > Years ago I had two patients who developed a recurrence of haemorrhoids after I gave them Vitex for PMT. Both of them had previously had piles (can I say that as it's shorter to type?) when pregnant and at no other time. Both had been pregnant four times. When they took Vitex they got piles, when they stopped they went away. I worked it out that as Vitex is progestogenic it was working on their blood vessels in the way progesterone does when woman is pregnant. Progesterone does all sorts of things like slackening ligaments to allow for growing foetus and preparation for birth. It can do this to blood vessels too whihc is why some women get the free gift of haemorrhoids during pregnancy (some get them from pushing out baby in childbirth). > Since your patient gets piles during luteal phase, whihc is also longer than what is considered normal (but that might be normal for her) it might be possible that she has too much progesterone - so it all boils down to hormonal balance and effective liver function? > Ever since then i have been carfeul with Vitex in women who had piles during pregnancy but haven't had any more instances like above. > Hope that helps > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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