Chris and

[Guest guest]

and , You touched on  one of my pet Aspergers topics when you were discussing the difficulties in saying “I love you†to a partner.      It is problematical, and for much more than just one reason for the Aspie.   Again, I must qualify by saying the obvious again, that all Aspies are not alike. The most important issue to me is determining and acknowledging just what the individual is meaning by Love.   In her book Loving Mr Spock, Barbara s tells that significant story of how she asked Danny, her tame AS boyfriend, just what he meant or intended by the word.   He first of all had to think it over for a spell, and eventually stated ‘I feel safe’.  Now notice that the ‘definition’ is not making any sort of statement about the other party and how much she means to him.   It was first and foremost a comment about himself and his comfort zone.  I have taken the matter a bit further in the relevant essays in my book, arguing that the great selfless type of love is  probably not so likely to be present in a person with Aspergers.   His top priority may be that the person he ‘loves’ does not represent any detriment or serious prejudice to his normal sense of well-being.   It is not a plaudit to the positive aspects of the other person’s being; but rather the pleasure in the significant lack or absence of problems she represents.   Then and essentially only when he feels a comfort and freedom when tied up with the other one, does ‘love’ honestly carry its own full weight for him. This is not to say that the Aspergers person is not capable of self-sacrifice, or of dedication to a partner or to the marriage.  Aspies often have a great consistency about their ‘stick-at-itiveness’.   Their love of regularity and changeless states may well get them to stay through all sorts of troubles and problem areas.    But they may well find it outside the comfort zone and capability to be able to say and mean ‘I love you’ to the partner when they no longer feel ‘safe’ or content or whatever.   So much might depend on whether they feel any profound inner bonding with that other that over-rides the on-going discomfort.   For me, well I have never been conscious of an underlying bonding or chemistry with any other person. So, does ‘love’ for the particular individual mean something very profound, spiritual and idealistic, or something essentially pragmatic and for that matter highly fluctuating and dependent on the current circumstances and state of play with the partner? Is it possible or suitable for the Aspie in the circumstance to state truthfully, but maybe a little cautiously that he ‘loves’ the other to the highest extent that he finds possible?   Would this sound a bit too conditional?   Then again, perhaps a real understanding between an Aspie and NT may be safest and truthful, when extremes in statements and hyperbole in love declaration are understood and agreed between the parties to be unsuitable and risky. As I explain in one of my essays, from my earliest years, I had the silly but sincere idea that there just happened to be a universal ‘language of love’ that one spoke in when with a partner.   This language was not intended to represent any real truths, but was simply the appropriate and accepted fashion in with which you addressed these other very  special people.   Not only, (I felt) must it ‘oil the wheels’ as it were, and should enhance the well-being but it could enhance the degree of excitement that one got from the presence of the other.   (this latter concept came much later along with sexual experience.)   This language was the one that might state ‘I cannot live without you’, or ‘I’d go through fire and water for you’, or ‘I love you desperately’.   It represented nothing more than the enthusiasm that one felt AT THAT MOMENT about the relationship.  A problem I faced, though of course I didn’t realize it till too late in life, was that I seemed to have no internal assessment system, - no gut reaction that provided me with any inner prompting about the possible suitability of a person for me as a partner.   Over the years I’ve learned to respect the advices and warnings that these inner systems can offer.   I appeared to have absolutely no inherent systems for judging or assessing people.  -  lack of the Empathy factor, maybe?  Let me tell you, that it was with a real sense of shock or even let-down that I eventually discovered that ‘real’ lovers probably meant and intended these strong statements and sentiments.     Real and authentic emotions and sentiments that real people felt, had never filtered through to my Aspie brain; and I seemed somewhat devoid of many of the passions that motivated the people around me.    Another of these emotions that I seemed oblivious to, was of course Grief at the death of someone near to me.   And, it was, of course, the realization of this ‘gap’ in myself that was a major factor (in my 60s) in looking for and grabbing at a diagnosis. Cheers,  Ron.  

[Guest guest]

Ron,

Something else just occurred to me after

sending the preceding note.

Often my partner has stated that I put

conditions on loving people. Your note draws that out at some length

and it is very apt in terms of such a statement. The conditions and

how they manifest are probably as different between aspies as anything

else.

Greg dx AS at 53

[Guest guest]

Ron

I read your note with interest as I am also

painfully aware of the statement you made below applies to me

" For me, well I have never been

conscious of an underlying bonding or chemistry with any other person " .

This is one of the things that I had been hiding from my family and myself.

This hiding forces one to adopt a mask to pretend that you feel those

things when in fact you often do not, or you do not feel them when it is

appropriate to feel them in the moment when interacting with others. The

emotional processing lags and has to catch up so to speak

A well written and considered response

as always.

Cheers

Greg dx AS at 53

[Guest guest]

Dear Ron (awesome last name I have to say),Thank you for your incredible insightful reply. I shall reply to it when my attention is as focused as yours must have been when you wrote this. A fantastic treaty on the subject! Thank you very much!regards,C. To: aspires-relationships From: hedrich@...Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:41:23 +1000Subject: RE: and

and , You touched on one of my pet Aspergers topics when you were discussing the difficulties in saying “I love you” to a partner. It is problematical, and for much more than just one reason for the Aspie. Again, I must qualify by saying the obvious again, that all Aspies are not alike. The most important issue to me is determining and acknowledging just what the individual is meaning by Love. In her book Loving Mr Spock, Barbara s tells that significant story of how she asked Danny, her tame AS boyfriend, just what he meant or intended by the word. He first of all had to think it over for a spell, and eventually stated ‘I feel safe’. Now notice that the ‘definition’ is not making any sort of statement about the other party and how much she means to him. It was first and foremost a comment about himself and his comfort zone. I have taken the matter a bit further in the relevant essays in my book, arguing that the great selfless type of love is probably not so likely to be present in a person with Aspergers. His top priority may be that the person he ‘loves’ does not represent any detriment or serious prejudice to his normal sense of well-being. It is not a plaudit to the positive aspects of the other person’s being; but rather the pleasure in the significant lack or absence of problems she represents. Then and essentially only when he feels a comfort and freedom when tied up with the other one, does ‘love’ honestly carry its own full weight for him. This is not to say that the Aspergers person is not capable of self-sacrifice, or of dedication to a partner or to the marriage. Aspies often have a great consistency about their ‘stick-at-itiveness’. Their love of regularity and changeless states may well get them to stay through all sorts of troubles and problem areas. But they may well find it outside the comfort zone and capability to be able to say and mean ‘I love you’ to the partner when they no longer feel ‘safe’ or content or whatever. So much might depend on whether they feel any profound inner bonding with that other that over-rides the on-going discomfort. For me, well I have never been conscious of an underlying bonding or chemistry with any other person. So, does ‘love’ for the particular individual mean something very profound, spiritual and idealistic, or something essentially pragmatic and for that matter highly fluctuating and dependent on the current circumstances and state of play with the partner? Is it possible or suitable for the Aspie in the circumstance to state truthfully, but maybe a little cautiously that he ‘loves’ the other to the highest extent that he finds possible? Would this sound a bit too conditional? Then again, perhaps a real understanding between an Aspie and NT may be safest and truthful, when extremes in statements and hyperbole in love declaration are understood and agreed between the parties to be unsuitable and risky. As I explain in one of my essays, from my earliest years, I had the silly but sincere idea that there just happened to be a universal ‘language of love’ that one spoke in when with a partner. This language was not intended to represent any real truths, but was simply the appropriate and accepted fashion in with which you addressed these other very special people. Not only, (I felt) must it ‘oil the wheels’ as it were, and should enhance the well-being but it could enhance the degree of excitement that one got from the presence of the other. (this latter concept came much later along with sexual experience.) This language was the one that might state ‘I cannot live without you’, or ‘I’d go through fire and water for you’, or ‘I love you desperately’. It represented nothing more than the enthusiasm that one felt AT THAT MOMENT about the relationship. A problem I faced, though of course I didn’t realize it till too late in life, was that I seemed to have no internal assessment system, - no gut reaction that provided me with any inner prompting about the possible suitability of a person for me as a partner. Over the years I’ve learned to respect the advices and warnings that these inner systems can offer. I appeared to have absolutely no inherent systems for judging or assessing people. - lack of the Empathy factor, maybe? Let me tell you, that it was with a real sense of shock or even let-down that I eventually discovered that ‘real’ lovers probably meant and intended these strong statements and sentiments. Real and authentic emotions and sentiments that real people felt, had never filtered through to my Aspie brain; and I seemed somewhat devoid of many of the passions that motivated the people around me. Another of these emotions that I seemed oblivious to, was of course Grief at the death of someone near to me. And, it was, of course, the realization of this ‘gap’ in myself that was a major factor (in my 60s) in looking for and grabbing at a diagnosis. Cheers, Ron.

[Guest guest]

Chris:

U might be interested in reading Ron's book titled Confessions of an Unashamed Asperger. It is filled with insight and great stories.

[Guest guest]

Hi Ron,

A few quick comments on your post about " I love you " .

On Mon, 27 Jun 2011 at 11:41:23 +1000, Ron Hedgcock wrote:

> You touched on one of my pet Aspergers topics when you were discussing

> the difficulties in saying “I love you†to a partner. It is

> problematical, and for much more than just one reason for the Aspie.

> Again, I must qualify by saying the obvious again, that all Aspies are

> not alike.

>

> The most important issue to me is determining and acknowledging just

> what the individual is meaning by Love.

Yes because we've got at least two independent variables here; one is

the variation in Aspies who say and hear it, and the other is the

variation in what other folk mean by it. It leaves the whole thing

wide open to misinterpretation, and the consequences of a

misinterpretation in that area can be so devastating that I tend to

think it's safer not to use the phrase at all.

> So, does ‘love’ for the particular individual mean something very

> profound, spiritual and idealistic, or something essentially pragmatic

> and for that matter highly fluctuating and dependent on the current

> circumstances and state of play with the partner?

For the phrase " I love you " , my answer would be flavoured with

idealism. To me, it's the unattainable ultimate relationship a true

believer would aim to have with their God. Other uses of the word

" love " are much more pragmatic, like " I love jelly-babies " or " I love

an extra hour in bed on Sunday mornings "

> Is it possible or suitable for the Aspie in the circumstance to state

> truthfully, but maybe a little cautiously that he ‘loves’ the other to

> the highest extent that he finds possible? Would this sound a bit too

> conditional? Then again, perhaps a real understanding between an Aspie

> and NT may be safest and truthful, when extremes in statements and

> hyperbole in love declaration are understood and agreed between the

> parties to be unsuitable and risky.

Well if love implies total idealism, dedication and perfectionism, it's

really got be be all or nothing, don't you think? Putting any kind of

condition on it would very likely be interpreted as unacceptable hedging

by a prospective partner. When people talk about love, I'd say they're

implying total committment. Yes, the whole thing is fraught with

uncertainty and risk. Best avoided on the whole!

> Let me tell you, that it was with a real sense of shock or even let-down

> that I eventually discovered that ‘real’ lovers probably meant and

> intended these strong statements and sentiments.

Yes, I think they do mean it when their rational selves are overtaken

by these temporary emotions. My problem is that I would have to think

it through and work out whether it was a truly " forever " feeling, or

just something I was only experiencing while I was temporarily under the

influence. It's that damn perfectionism controlling things again!