Re: Need some answers on Bioidentical Progesterone

[Guest guest]

Karima,

Do you take oral progesterone every day of the month? I have a

horrible time with oral progesterone even for a few days.

I like Cyclogest vag progesterone from Masters Marketing. It does not

sting or burn like other vag. progesterones that I have tried. You

can also use your prometrium vaginally but the dose will likely be too

high. You could try spitting the oil in the prometrium for more than

one dose. Cyclogest is less expensive than other progesterones that I

have tried.

Vliet says to use 20 mg of vaginal progesterone per day for 12 days

(actually 40 mg of Prochieve every other day for 6 doses). I think

there are studies that show that that amount of prochieve works.

The problem arises when trying to compare the strength of compounded

progesterone or Cyclogest to Prochieve/crinone. How can we know if

they are equal milligram to milligram? I do not know the answer so my

current theory is that I need somewhere between 30-50 mg of

Cyclogest/day for ten days.

My own progesterone gives me more bleeding and a " better " period than

I can get with Cyclogest alone so I am still experimenting with the

dose. This month I did not ovulated so I used Cyclogest 50 mg/day

(split into two doses 30 & 20 mg each) for five days, then I felt

overdosed so I decreased my dose to 30 mg/day for another 5 days. I

had a light short period with this dosing and I am concerned that I

did not take enough. Next time I am going to try a little more.

I did start Armour over a month ago, so my lighter bleeding may be

from the Armour decreasing the heavy bleeding. I hope this is the

case but will not know unless I ovulate again and can see what a

normal ovulation period is like wile on Armour.

Kathy

>

> >

> >

> > I would recommend reading back posts about topical progesterone.

I think I

> > remember your earlier post saying that you are using 50 mg of topical

> > progesterone/day. Dr. Vliet would say that that amount is an

overdose.

> > Also, there are studies that confirm that topical progesterone

does not

> > protect the uterus in 30% of the women who take it. Topical

progesterone

> > can also get stuck in your fat to be released later. If you use a

large

> > dose over an extended period of time you may find that it can take

a long

> > time to clear the progesterone from your system. There were too many

> > negatives about topical progesterone for me so I switched to vaginal.

> > Another alternative is oral; I cannot take oral because it gives me a

> > horrible hangover.

> >

> > Kathy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The MD I saw is a OB/GYN and he prescribed the recommended formula in all

the meno literature that I have read: 100mg Prometrium per day along with

the Estrogel. Like the gel, hate the peanut pill. Wanted to pump him for

more information on why the continuous therapy, but he we were at the

hospital clinic between baby deliveries and he was rushed. I think that this

may be a mistake for me. Now am having heavy period bleeding, bloating too.

My body hasn’t ever liked P, was my biggest concern with taking any bio

hormones to begin with -- cramps, bloating, bleeding, clots, blah. Haven’t

had them for years, diet and homeopathics completely got rid of them. I told

the student doctor who took my history about how using homeopathics,

adjusting my diet and supplements had completely gotten rid of all my nasty

peri symptoms. He blinked and at least pretended to be respectful.

So, I have the prescription with the strength of 100. There must be a way

for me to adjust the dose to cyclic for endometrial protection. I really

didn’t think that I was ovulating any more. But, could be the E pushed me

back into a cycle. Sure felt like it.

If I am now bleeding, can I stop the P and go on a cycle? Do I double up the

P for fewer days? Or do I just skip some of the days, go every other day?

Any advice?

Still trying to stay out of the expense private clinic as MD GYN does not

appear to be at all favorable to compounded hormones. I don’t care if there

are manufactured P’s that are better than the peanut pill.

Karima

Karima,

Do you take oral progesterone every day of the month? I have a horrible

time with oral progesterone even for a few days.

I like Cyclogest vag progesterone from Masters Marketing. It does not sting

or burn like other vag. progesterones that I have tried. You can also use

your prometrium vaginally but the dose will likely be too high. You could

try spitting the oil in the prometrium for more than one dose. Cyclogest is

less expensive than other progesterones that I have tried.

Vliet says to use 20 mg of vaginal progesterone per day for 12 days

(actually 40 mg of Prochieve every other day for 6 doses). I think there

are studies that show that that amount of prochieve works.

The problem arises when trying to compare the strength of compounded

progesterone or Cyclogest to Prochieve/crinone. How can we know if they are

equal milligram to milligram? I do not know the answer so my current theory

is that I need somewhere between 30-50 mg of Cyclogest/day for ten days.

My own progesterone gives me more bleeding and a " better " period than I can

get with Cyclogest alone so I am still experimenting with the dose. This

month I did not ovulated so I used Cyclogest 50 mg/day (split into two doses

30 & 20 mg each) for five days, then I felt overdosed so I decreased my dose

to 30 mg/day for another 5 days. I had a light short period with this

dosing and I am concerned that I did not take enough. Next time I am going

to try a little more.

I did start Armour over a month ago, so my lighter bleeding may be from the

Armour decreasing the heavy bleeding. I hope this is the case but will not

know unless I ovulate again and can see what a normal ovulation period is

like wile on Armour.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Hi Karima,

What I would do is stop the progesterone, let your period run it's

course and then decide if you want to do continuous progesterone or

cycled. Do this based on what you want and not what the doctor throws

at you because it is convenient for him.

If you want to do continuous progesterone, start back on the 100 mg of

prometrium daily after your bleeding stops :-( If you want to cycle,

skip the progesterone for up to six weeks or so and then take enough

oral or vaginal progesterone for enough days to produce an adequate

bleed.

Since you think you may have ovulated, check your am temp. every day

and try to determine if you ovulate again in the next several weeks.

If you ovulate and your temp stays up for up to 14 days then you might

be able to cycle on your own without progesterone at least for a wile.

I cannot remember how old you are?

If you decide to cycle your progesterone you will have to figure out

how often to take it and if you want oral or vaginal progesterone. I

think Dr. G and Vliet say that we can go up to 3-4 months between

progesterone use. I personally would not wait that long. After 6

weeks I start taking progesterone because going longer scares me.

I think the accepted dose of oral progesterone that is known to work

for cycling is 200 mg for 10-12 days. I have read that 100 mg is not

enough for cycling. I cannot take oral progesterone, even 100 mg is

too much for me.

If you want to try vaginal progesterone, I think the dose is somewhere

between 20-50 mg/day for 10-12 days. I think the dose depends on

which specific progesterone you use. Crinone/prochieve has been

studied and we know it works at a certain dose (40 mg ever other day

for 6 doses). But other formulations have not been studied so we have

to surmise at the dose. You can use your Prometrium vaginally but at

100 mg it may give you overdose symptoms quickly. Splitting

prometrium is not so easy because it is liquid inside of the capsule.

I think prometrium was studied at 100 mg vaginally and was shown to

work (I cannot remember how many days) but 100 mg of prometrium

vaginally would be an overdose for me.

I think that your doctor put you on continuous progesterone because it

is easy for him. He does not have to deal with the effects of daily

progesterone personally and probably does not have a clue how bad it

can be, so he does what is easy and it known to work to protect the

uterus. I think many meno women do not want to have a period and

taking continuous progesterone takes care of that issue. If you throw

ovulation into the mix I think it can cause problems like you have

experienced because then you are getting a double dose of progesterone

plus possibly get withdrawal bleeding from the drop in progesterone.

Even if you went to an expensive clinic, they will not know how you

react to the hormones they put you on until you try them. So

basically you would be paying for them to experiment on you. Why not

just trust yourself and experiment to see what works for you on your

own. In House Pharmacy has Crinone to try or Prometrium. It would be

nice if you could get a RX for Cyclogest from MM now without a RX but

they are requiring prescriptions now. There may be other places to

get Cyclogest but the sites that I found in the past were very

expensive. MM is good because the price is right.

I hope this helps.

Kathy

>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Karima,

> >

> > Do you take oral progesterone every day of the month? I have a

horrible

> > time with oral progesterone even for a few days.

> >

> > I like Cyclogest vag progesterone from Masters Marketing. It does

not sting

> > or burn like other vag. progesterones that I have tried. You can

also use

> > your prometrium vaginally but the dose will likely be too high.

You could

> > try spitting the oil in the prometrium for more than one dose.

Cyclogest is

> > less expensive than other progesterones that I have tried.

> >

> > Vliet says to use 20 mg of vaginal progesterone per day for 12 days

> > (actually 40 mg of Prochieve every other day for 6 doses). I

think there

> > are studies that show that that amount of prochieve works.

> >

> > The problem arises when trying to compare the strength of compounded

> > progesterone or Cyclogest to Prochieve/crinone. How can we know

if they are

> > equal milligram to milligram? I do not know the answer so my

current theory

> > is that I need somewhere between 30-50 mg of Cyclogest/day for ten

days.

> >

> > My own progesterone gives me more bleeding and a " better " period

than I can

> > get with Cyclogest alone so I am still experimenting with the

dose. This

> > month I did not ovulated so I used Cyclogest 50 mg/day (split into

two doses

> > 30 & 20 mg each) for five days, then I felt overdosed so I

decreased my dose

> > to 30 mg/day for another 5 days. I had a light short period with this

> > dosing and I am concerned that I did not take enough. Next time I

am going

> > to try a little more.

> >

> > I did start Armour over a month ago, so my lighter bleeding may be

from the

> > Armour decreasing the heavy bleeding. I hope this is the case but

will not

> > know unless I ovulate again and can see what a normal ovulation

period is

> > like wile on Armour.

> >

> > Kathy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy,

Thanks for all the information. I’m 51, and do not cycle regularly any more,

every couple of months is when I have been cycling, and sometimes less

frequently. The E may have sent me into an ovulation. In the past I had a

tendency to overproduce P, as I recognize the symptoms, but haven’t had them

for years because of balancing my hormones with diets and homeopathy. What

impact does all these hormones have on fibroids? I had one small one, and my

symptoms are very fibroid like too from what I can remember.

I will go back to the doctor and get a different prescription that is a

better fit for someone who may still be ovulating on occasion. If I use the

Prometrium vaginally, then what do I do with the excess if the full capsule

is too much/ I am very concerned about adding more hormones to the water

supply, even the leftovers from ones body are showing up in water all over

the place.

If I brought them back to the pharmacy for disposal they are going to know

that I am not following the appropriate method for use. This may not be a

good idea.

3 – 4 months between P doses sounds good to me, does anyone have any success

with that? I don’t remember what Vliet says in her book. Being in Canada, I

am not going to order from online pharmacy because that will not be covered

by my extended health.

Has anyone every tried taking the prometrium every other day instead of

every day?

I am giving this three – six months and hopefully I can find a method I can

live with or I will go back to my old hormone balancing methods, diet and

homeopathy.

Karima

Hi Karima,

What I would do is stop the progesterone, let your period run it's course

and then decide if you want to do continuous progesterone or cycled. Do

this based on what you want and not what the doctor throws at you because it

is convenient for him.

If you want to do continuous progesterone, start back on the 100 mg of

prometrium daily after your bleeding stops :-( If you want to cycle, skip

the progesterone for up to six weeks or so and then take enough oral or

vaginal progesterone for enough days to produce an adequate bleed.

Since you think you may have ovulated, check your am temp. every day and try

to determine if you ovulate again in the next several weeks. If you ovulate

and your temp stays up for up to 14 days then you might be able to cycle on

your own without progesterone at least for a wile.

I cannot remember how old you are?

If you decide to cycle your progesterone you will have to figure out how

often to take it and if you want oral or vaginal progesterone. I think Dr.

G and Vliet say that we can go up to 3-4 months between progesterone use. I

personally would not wait that long. After 6 weeks I start taking

progesterone because going longer scares me.

I think the accepted dose of oral progesterone that is known to work for

cycling is 200 mg for 10-12 days. I have read that 100 mg is not enough for

cycling. I cannot take oral progesterone, even 100 mg is too much for me.

If you want to try vaginal progesterone, I think the dose is somewhere

between 20-50 mg/day for 10-12 days. I think the dose depends on which

specific progesterone you use. Crinone/prochieve has been studied and we

know it works at a certain dose (40 mg ever other day for 6 doses). But

other formulations have not been studied so we have to surmise at the dose.

You can use your Prometrium vaginally but at 100 mg it may give you overdose

symptoms quickly. Splitting prometrium is not so easy because it is liquid

inside of the capsule. I think prometrium was studied at 100 mg vaginally

and was shown to work (I cannot remember how many days) but 100 mg of

prometrium vaginally would be an overdose for me.

I think that your doctor put you on continuous progesterone because it is

easy for him. He does not have to deal with the effects of daily

progesterone personally and probably does not have a clue how bad it can be,

so he does what is easy and it known to work to protect the uterus. I think

many meno women do not want to have a period and taking continuous

progesterone takes care of that issue. If you throw ovulation into the mix

I think it can cause problems like you have experienced because then you are

getting a double dose of progesterone plus possibly get withdrawal bleeding

from the drop in progesterone.

Even if you went to an expensive clinic, they will not know how you react to

the hormones they put you on until you try them. So basically you would be

paying for them to experiment on you. Why not just trust yourself and

experiment to see what works for you on your own. In House Pharmacy has

Crinone to try or Prometrium. It would be nice if you could get a RX for

Cyclogest from MM now without a RX but they are requiring prescriptions now.

There may be other places to get Cyclogest but the sites that I found in the

past were very expensive. MM is good because the price is right.

I hope this helps.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Hi Karma,

With the excess P from the prometrium caps, just save it for the next day.

I would not use P every other day because I would get spotting and

break through bleeding. That is one of the reasons why I sometimes

use P twice a day rather than once a day--to prevent spotting. When P

wears off that is the time that I will spot.

Don't take them back to the pharmacy. Just store somewhere (maybe

refrigerator) because you may decide later on that you want to go back

to prometrium.

Kathy

>

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi Karima,

> >

> > What I would do is stop the progesterone, let your period run it's

course

> > and then decide if you want to do continuous progesterone or

cycled. Do

> > this based on what you want and not what the doctor throws at you

because it

> > is convenient for him.

> >

> > If you want to do continuous progesterone, start back on the 100 mg of

> > prometrium daily after your bleeding stops :-( If you want to

cycle, skip

> > the progesterone for up to six weeks or so and then take enough

oral or

> > vaginal progesterone for enough days to produce an adequate bleed.

> >

> > Since you think you may have ovulated, check your am temp. every

day and try

> > to determine if you ovulate again in the next several weeks. If

you ovulate

> > and your temp stays up for up to 14 days then you might be able to

cycle on

> > your own without progesterone at least for a wile.

> >

> > I cannot remember how old you are?

> >

> > If you decide to cycle your progesterone you will have to figure

out how

> > often to take it and if you want oral or vaginal progesterone. I

think Dr.

> > G and Vliet say that we can go up to 3-4 months between

progesterone use. I

> > personally would not wait that long. After 6 weeks I start taking

> > progesterone because going longer scares me.

> >

> > I think the accepted dose of oral progesterone that is known to

work for

> > cycling is 200 mg for 10-12 days. I have read that 100 mg is not

enough for

> > cycling. I cannot take oral progesterone, even 100 mg is too much

for me.

> >

> > If you want to try vaginal progesterone, I think the dose is somewhere

> > between 20-50 mg/day for 10-12 days. I think the dose depends on

which

> > specific progesterone you use. Crinone/prochieve has been studied

and we

> > know it works at a certain dose (40 mg ever other day for 6

doses). But

> > other formulations have not been studied so we have to surmise at

the dose.

> > You can use your Prometrium vaginally but at 100 mg it may give

you overdose

> > symptoms quickly. Splitting prometrium is not so easy because it

is liquid

> > inside of the capsule. I think prometrium was studied at 100 mg

vaginally

> > and was shown to work (I cannot remember how many days) but 100 mg of

> > prometrium vaginally would be an overdose for me.

> >

> > I think that your doctor put you on continuous progesterone

because it is

> > easy for him. He does not have to deal with the effects of daily

> > progesterone personally and probably does not have a clue how bad

it can be,

> > so he does what is easy and it known to work to protect the

uterus. I think

> > many meno women do not want to have a period and taking continuous

> > progesterone takes care of that issue. If you throw ovulation

into the mix

> > I think it can cause problems like you have experienced because

then you are

> > getting a double dose of progesterone plus possibly get withdrawal

bleeding

> > from the drop in progesterone.

> >

> > Even if you went to an expensive clinic, they will not know how

you react to

> > the hormones they put you on until you try them. So basically you

would be

> > paying for them to experiment on you. Why not just trust yourself and

> > experiment to see what works for you on your own. In House

Pharmacy has

> > Crinone to try or Prometrium. It would be nice if you could get a

RX for

> > Cyclogest from MM now without a RX but they are requiring

prescriptions now.

> > There may be other places to get Cyclogest but the sites that I

found in the

> > past were very expensive. MM is good because the price is right.

> >

> > I hope this helps.

> >

> > Kathy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

So to recap, you use 1/2 capsule of the prometrium vaginally once per day,

for 10 –12 days every six weeks?

One could measure how much in a capsule in order to determine how much is in

each as well, then store the excess for the next day.

I have a feeling that if I wanted OOE, I will have to find a new MD, as this

specialist is not going to go for anything that is not standardized. Good

thing I have other doctors for plan B & C.

Karima

Hi Karma,

With the excess P from the prometrium caps, just save it for the next day.

I would not use P every other day because I would get spotting and break

through bleeding. That is one of the reasons why I sometimes use P twice a

day rather than once a day--to prevent spotting. When P wears off that is

the time that I will spot.

Don't take them back to the pharmacy. Just store somewhere (maybe

refrigerator) because you may decide later on that you want to go back to

prometrium.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy, I asked Dr. G. about using Prometrium caps intravaginally

and she said it was the wrong base, i.e. oil. She said you have to

have it in another base. I'm no longer on her list so I don't

remember what base she said it has to be but she said you would have

to have a compounding pharmacy make it up. Not sure why she feels

this way bec. I think Dr. Vilet says you can use Prometrium caps

intravaginally, right?

Thanks,

> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi Karima,

> > >

> > > What I would do is stop the progesterone, let your period run

it's

> course

> > > and then decide if you want to do continuous progesterone or

> cycled. Do

> > > this based on what you want and not what the doctor throws at

you

> because it

> > > is convenient for him.

> > >

> > > If you want to do continuous progesterone, start back on the

100 mg of

> > > prometrium daily after your bleeding stops :-( If you want to

> cycle, skip

> > > the progesterone for up to six weeks or so and then take enough

> oral or

> > > vaginal progesterone for enough days to produce an adequate

bleed.

> > >

> > > Since you think you may have ovulated, check your am temp.

every

> day and try

> > > to determine if you ovulate again in the next several weeks. If

> you ovulate

> > > and your temp stays up for up to 14 days then you might be

able to

> cycle on

> > > your own without progesterone at least for a wile.

> > >

> > > I cannot remember how old you are?

> > >

> > > If you decide to cycle your progesterone you will have to

figure

> out how

> > > often to take it and if you want oral or vaginal

progesterone. I

> think Dr.

> > > G and Vliet say that we can go up to 3-4 months between

> progesterone use. I

> > > personally would not wait that long. After 6 weeks I start

taking

> > > progesterone because going longer scares me.

> > >

> > > I think the accepted dose of oral progesterone that is known to

> work for

> > > cycling is 200 mg for 10-12 days. I have read that 100 mg is

not

> enough for

> > > cycling. I cannot take oral progesterone, even 100 mg is too

much

> for me.

> > >

> > > If you want to try vaginal progesterone, I think the dose is

somewhere

> > > between 20-50 mg/day for 10-12 days. I think the dose depends

on

> which

> > > specific progesterone you use. Crinone/prochieve has been

studied

> and we

> > > know it works at a certain dose (40 mg ever other day for 6

> doses). But

> > > other formulations have not been studied so we have to surmise

at

> the dose.

> > > You can use your Prometrium vaginally but at 100 mg it may give

> you overdose

> > > symptoms quickly. Splitting prometrium is not so easy because

it

> is liquid

> > > inside of the capsule. I think prometrium was studied at 100 mg

> vaginally

> > > and was shown to work (I cannot remember how many days) but

100 mg of

> > > prometrium vaginally would be an overdose for me.

> > >

> > > I think that your doctor put you on continuous progesterone

> because it is

> > > easy for him. He does not have to deal with the effects of

daily

> > > progesterone personally and probably does not have a clue how

bad

> it can be,

> > > so he does what is easy and it known to work to protect the

> uterus. I think

> > > many meno women do not want to have a period and taking

continuous

> > > progesterone takes care of that issue. If you throw ovulation

> into the mix

> > > I think it can cause problems like you have experienced because

> then you are

> > > getting a double dose of progesterone plus possibly get

withdrawal

> bleeding

> > > from the drop in progesterone.

> > >

> > > Even if you went to an expensive clinic, they will not know how

> you react to

> > > the hormones they put you on until you try them. So basically

you

> would be

> > > paying for them to experiment on you. Why not just trust

yourself and

> > > experiment to see what works for you on your own. In House

> Pharmacy has

> > > Crinone to try or Prometrium. It would be nice if you could

get a

> RX for

> > > Cyclogest from MM now without a RX but they are requiring

> prescriptions now.

> > > There may be other places to get Cyclogest but the sites that I

> found in the

> > > past were very expensive. MM is good because the price is

right.

> > >

> > > I hope this helps.

> > >

> > > Kathy

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

A few years back, she was recommending it.

Val

-----Original Message-----

From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]

On Behalf Of menomama

Hi Kathy, I asked Dr. G. about using Prometrium caps intravaginally

and she said it was the wrong base, i.e. oil. She said you have to

have it in another base.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I do not know why oil would be the wrong base. I read a study a wile

back (on pub med I think) where they used prometium vaginally and it

worked. As I recall the study only used 100 mg. So I think we do not

know if less than 100 mg of prometrium works based on a study but we

can certainly guess.

One thing that I noticed about Dr. G is that she was often hung up

about different bases " not absorbing " . She told me not to use my

testosterone in my lotion base because it has not been proven to be

absorbed. But then when I got my T level back and she thought my

level was too high, she wanted me to decrease my T lotion. The guys

on the men's boards know that T in a lotion base works, maybe it is

not quite as strong as Androgel but it does work. I think different

bases may absorb a little differently so we may need to do some fine

tuning.

When I used prometrium vaginally, it did absorb--that was the time

that I got the pregnancy line and got overdosed on progesterone. We

just do not know what the minimum effective dose of prometrium is. We

know from the study that 100 mg works but we can guess that we can

probably get by with a lower dose. How much lower is the magic

question; my thought would be to try 50 mg for 10 days and see if that

dose seems appropriate based on side effects and withdrawal bleeding.

Kathy

>

> A few years back, she was recommending it.

>

> Val

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: rhythmicliving

[mailto:rhythmicliving ]

> On Behalf Of menomama

>

> Hi Kathy, I asked Dr. G. about using Prometrium caps intravaginally

> and she said it was the wrong base, i.e. oil. She said you have to

> have it in another base.

>