Re: Re: OCD-Typical ERP vs ACT

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

One of my "Pure-O" thoughts did come true and upset me for some time. I think you are referring to a very limited number of examples if you say they never come true. I am not talking about fear of committing a murder (but what if I don't pay attention when driving and kill someone) but of other types of harm/ethical obsessions eg feeling responsble for preventing harm coming to others, fears of not being perfectly honest etc..Actually more than one has come true.

I don't think it is ever possible to say there is 100% certainty something will not happen and indeed it is very easy for this to become a form of compulsion or avoidance. Wouldn't you agree?

S.

Subject: Re: OCD-Typical ERP vs ACTTo: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Saturday, 29 January, 2011, 14:38

> It is very difficult to convince others though that that is possible when the obsessions have been there for years and they simply don't accept that there is no truth in these fears. Most obsessions at least have a grain of truth in them!>> Â > S.I'll have to disagree with you there. Pure "O" thoughts are usually irrational thoughts with no grain of truth in them. Like my water, I absolutely know there is nothing wrong with my water but I'll still have the thought that there is something wrong with it and that thought will give me anxious feelings even though I know rationally that there is not an ounce of truth to that. Some people ruminate over and

over than they are going to kill or have killed someone. There's no truth in that and if there is it's not Pure "O" they are dealing with. The thoughts are usually based on things that a person holds dear to them, fears or revolves around a certain theme like control or religion.

[Guest guest]

>> Hi ,>  > One of my "Pure-O" thoughts did  come true and upset me for some time. I think you are referring to a very limited number of examples if you say they never come true. I am not talking about fear of committing a murder (but what if I don't pay attention when driving and kill someone) but of other types of harm/ethical obsessions eg feeling responsble for preventing harm coming to others, fears of not being perfectly honest etc..Actually more than one has come true. >  > I don't think it is ever possible to say there is 100% certainty something will not happen and indeed it is very easy

for this to become a form of compulsion or avoidance. Wouldn't you agree?> Â > S.> Â > I'll answer the second part first because it's easier for me. Nothing in life is 100% From what I understand from personal experience and research is compulsions and/or avoidance doesn't come from the fear of the pure "o" from happening but to escape the anxiety that comes from the obsession.

Hi ,

I think you are actually distorting what I wrote or meant to write as maybe I wasn't very clear. I wrote about there being a grain of truth in all obsessions. I don't think it makes sense to differentiate between different types of obsession as far as that is concerned. I'm not sure I see the distinction you are making between fear of the "pure o" happening and the anxiety that comes from the obsession. Not all people with pure-o accept their fears are 100% irrational. Indeed if they did they would not be doing mental compulsions trying to work out the likelihood, engaging in endless debates about whether they could really be potential murderers online, or asking for reassurance that they will never change sexual orientation or unintentionally hurt someone etc.!

I do accept that all people have intrusive thoughts so the problem is not accepting anxiety is a normal part of life but trying to avoid it. It's the response to anxiety (intolerance) and the desire for 100% certainty that keeps all types of obsession alive I think.

My initial post was really about how to start with ACT to help someone who suffers from overvalued ideation and who at times will recognise their fears are exaggerated but actually continues to behave in a way that shows they intend to play safe in case that 0.000009% likelihood applies to them. To tell them their fear is totally unfounded generally does not seem to work!

I agree about ACT being helpful as in vivo exposures to some situations like murder are obviously not desirable, but actually imaginal exposures to the thought that one could indeed become gay overnight, kill someone while driving, and yet survive the indeed awful anxiety (!), can work.

My personal tactic though has not been ERP but refusing to avoid situations that could trigger my anxiety - on the whole that has worked in the long run. That would seem to be part of ACT as well.

I have many ethical obsessions where actually I do need to work out whether my concern is rational or obsessional and decide my behaviour on that basis.

The other day for example I smelt gas and wondered whether it was my imagination /OCD hyperresponsibility. I did not report it and then the next day discovered the road had been dug up to repair the leak. A day or two later I smelt gas somewhere else, reported it, and they could not detect any leak! That time two others without OCD agreed with me that they could smell gas. The current freeze has of course increased the probabliity that there will be gas leaks and that someone's fear of not being the perfect citizen will come true.

I doubt whether I am the exception as far as accepting there is some possibility my obsessions are well-founded:-)

BW,

S.

Now to the first part. There is always the exception. Typically though they are just irrational thoughts with no truth to them. Thoughts that everyone has but only some obsessive over and have a hard time switching off. Like I said there are exceptions but I'm really talking about the most common forms of Pure "o" though which are:- intrusive thoughts or mental images of killing ones spouse, parent, child, or self- recurrent fear of molesting a child- repeatedly worrying that one has or will physically assault another person or run over a pedestrian while driving a car- excessive fears that one might accidentally cause harm to other people (i.e., burning down the house, unknowingly poisoning others, inadvertantly exposing others to toxic chemicals)- repetitive thoughts that one has said or written something inappropriate, such as swearing at ones employer or writing hate-filled letters to a friend- recurrent fears

that one might be a homosexual, when in fact he or she is not (sometimes called "gay ocd" or "HOCD")- intrusive thoughts or mental images that one considers to be sacrilegious or blasphemous, such as wanting to worship Satan or have sex with Christ.- repeatedly thinking about benign somatic issues such as breathing, swallowing, blinking, eye "floaters", ringing in the ears, digestion, etc. I think ACT is wonderful for these typical types of pure "O" because who want to expose themselves to these things. IME it causes unneeded stress. I guess I do expose myself to my obsessions just living everyday life but then I use ACT to move me forward when I feel like my obsessions might be holding me back.heather.

[Guest guest]

No idea what you mean, Helena:-) but maybe I could just reiterate my original question, maybe to the experts.In other words what is the best way to get someone with "pure" O OCD ( a misnomer if ever there was one by the way!) or indeed anyone without insight that their fears are 100% irrational, to engage with ACT . In other words where on the hexaflex to start or is there no way which works better than any other?

BW,

S.

>> Hi ,>  > One of my "Pure-O" thoughts did  come true and upset me for some time. I think you are referring to a very limited number of examples if you say they never come true. I am not talking about fear of committing a murder (but what if I don't pay attention when driving and kill someone) but of other types of harm/ethical obsessions eg feeling responsble for preventing harm coming to others, fears of not being perfectly honest etc..Actually more than one has come true. >  > I don't think it is ever possible to say there is 100% certainty something will not happen and indeed it is very easy for this to become a form of compulsion or avoidance. Wouldn't you agree?>

 > S.>  > I'll answer the second part first because it's easier for me. Nothing in life is 100% From what I understand from personal experience and research is compulsions and/or avoidance doesn't come from the fear of the pure "o" from happening but to escape the anxiety that comes from the obsession.

Hi ,

I think you are actually distorting what I wrote or meant to write as maybe I wasn't very clear. I wrote about there being a grain of truth in all obsessions. I don't think it makes sense to differentiate between different types of obsession as far as that is concerned. I'm not sure I see the distinction you are making between fear of the "pure o" happening and the anxiety that comes from the obsession. Not all people with pure-o accept their fears are 100% irrational. Indeed if they did they would not be doing mental compulsions trying to work out the likelihood, engaging in endless debates about whether they could really be potential murderers online, or asking for reassurance that they will never change sexual orientation or unintentionally hurt someone etc.!

I do accept that all people have intrusive thoughts so the problem is not accepting anxiety is a normal part of life but trying to avoid it. It's the response to anxiety (intolerance) and the desire for 100% certainty that keeps all types of obsession alive I think.

My initial post was really about how to start with ACT to help someone who suffers from overvalued ideation and who at times will recognise their fears are exaggerated but actually continues to behave in a way that shows they intend to play safe in case that 0.000009% likelihood applies to them. To tell them their fear is totally unfounded generally does not seem to work!

I agree about ACT being helpful as in vivo exposures to some situations like murder are obviously not desirable, but actually imaginal exposures to the thought that one could indeed become gay overnight, kill someone while driving, and yet survive the indeed awful anxiety (!), can work.

My personal tactic though has not been ERP but refusing to avoid situations that could trigger my anxiety - on the whole that has worked in the long run. That would seem to be part of ACT as well.

I have many ethical obsessions where actually I do need to work out whether my concern is rational or obsessional and decide my behaviour on that basis.

The other day for example I smelt gas and wondered whether it was my imagination /OCD hyperresponsibility. I did not report it and then the next day discovered the road had been dug up to repair the leak. A day or two later I smelt gas somewhere else, reported it, and they could not detect any leak! That time two others without OCD agreed with me that they could smell gas. The current freeze has of course increased the probabliity that there will be gas leaks and that someone's fear of not being the perfect citizen will come true.

I doubt whether I am the exception as far as accepting there is some possibility my obsessions are well-founded:-)

BW,

S.

Now to the first part. There is always the exception. Typically though they are just irrational thoughts with no truth to them. Thoughts that everyone has but only some obsessive over and have a hard time switching off. Like I said there are exceptions but I'm really talking about the most common forms of Pure "o" though which are:- intrusive thoughts or mental images of killing ones spouse, parent, child, or self- recurrent fear of molesting a child- repeatedly worrying that one has or will physically assault another person or run over a pedestrian while driving a car- excessive fears that one might accidentally cause harm to other people (i.e., burning down the house, unknowingly poisoning others, inadvertantly exposing others to toxic chemicals)- repetitive thoughts that one has said or written something inappropriate, such as swearing at ones employer or writing hate-filled letters to a friend- recurrent fears

that one might be a homosexual, when in fact he or she is not (sometimes called "gay ocd" or "HOCD")- intrusive thoughts or mental images that one considers to be sacrilegious or blasphemous, such as wanting to worship Satan or have sex with Christ.- repeatedly thinking about benign somatic issues such as breathing, swallowing, blinking, eye "floaters", ringing in the ears, digestion, etc. I think ACT is wonderful for these typical types of pure "O" because who want to expose themselves to these things. IME it causes unneeded stress. I guess I do expose myself to my obsessions just living everyday life but then I use ACT to move me forward when I feel like my obsessions might be holding me back.heather.

[Guest guest]

Glad you said that, S. I don't have a clear idea what I meant, either. It was an instinct-based reply, so I should have kept my mouth shut.

My sense is that most fears are not 100% rational or 100% irrational. So you are right. But if a fear is only 2% rational, why spend time on it? That is why I don't understand OCD--I can easily let go of low-threat fears. Fear is all around us, all the time, everywhere. We must pick our battles if we want to win the war--and then we may not win. It must be tough to not be able to pick your battles but to experience every fear as urgent. I can't comprehend that but I do feel for you, deeply.

H

[Guest guest]

I would start with defusion for the thoughts and acceptance for any feelings you have with the fact of and struggle with pure o. This is what I do for my what ifing. BillSent via DROID on Verizon Wireless Re: Re: OCD-Typical ERP vs ACTNo idea what you mean, Helena:-) but maybe I could just reiterate my original question, maybe to the experts.In other words what is the best way to get someone with "pure" O OCD ( a misnomer if ever there was one by the way!) or indeed anyone without insight that their fears are 100% irrational, to engage with ACT . In other words where on the hexaflex to start or is there no way which works better than any other? BW,S. >> Hi ,>  > One of my "Pure-O" thoughts did  come true and upset me for some time. I think you are referring to a very limited number of examples if you say they never come true. I am not talking about fear of committing a murder (but what if I don't pay attention when driving and kill someone) but of other types of harm/ethical obsessions eg feeling responsble for preventing harm coming to others, fears of not being perfectly honest etc..Actually more than one has come true. >  > I don't think it is ever possible to say there is 100% certainty something will not happen and indeed it is very easy for this to become a form of compulsion or avoidance. Wouldn't you agree?> > S.>  > I'll answer the second part first because it's easier for me. Nothing in life is 100% From what I understand from personal experience and research is compulsions and/or avoidance doesn't come from the fear of the pure "o" from happening but to escape the anxiety that comes from the obsession. Hi , I think you are actually distorting what I wrote or meant to write as maybe I wasn't very clear. I wrote about there being a grain of truth in all obsessions. I don't think it makes sense to differentiate between different types of obsession as far as that is concerned. I'm not sure I see the distinction you are making between fear of the "pure o" happening and the anxiety that comes from the obsession. Not all people with pure-o accept their fears are 100% irrational. Indeed if they did they would not be doing mental compulsions trying to work out the likelihood, engaging in endless debates about whether they could really be potential murderers online, or asking for reassurance that they will never change sexual orientation or unintentionally hurt someone etc.! I do accept that all people have intrusive thoughts so the problem is not accepting anxiety is a normal part of life but trying to avoid it. It's the response to anxiety (intolerance) and the desire for 100% certainty that keeps all types of obsession alive I think. My initial post was really about how to start with ACT to help someone who suffers from overvalued ideation and who at times will recognise their fears are exaggerated but actually continues to behave in a way that shows they intend to play safe in case that 0.000009% likelihood applies to them. To tell them their fear is totally unfounded generally does not seem to work! I agree about ACT being helpful as in vivo exposures to some situations like murder are obviously not desirable, but actually imaginal exposures to the thought that one could indeed become gay overnight, kill someone while driving, and yet survive the indeed awful anxiety (!), can work. My personal tactic though has not been ERP but refusing to avoid situations that could trigger my anxiety - on the whole that has worked in the long run. That would seem to be part of ACT as well. I have many ethical obsessions where actually I do need to work out whether my concern is rational or obsessional and decide my behaviour on that basis. The other day for example I smelt gas and wondered whether it was my imagination /OCD hyperresponsibility. I did not report it and then the next day discovered the road had been dug up to repair the leak. A day or two later I smelt gas somewhere else, reported it, and they could not detect any leak! That time two others without OCD agreed with me that they could smell gas. The current freeze has of course increased the probabliity that there will be gas leaks and that someone's fear of not being the perfect citizen will come true. I doubt whether I am the exception as far as accepting there is some possibility my obsessions are well-founded:-) BW,S.Now to the first part. There is always the exception. Typically though they are just irrational thoughts with no truth to them. Thoughts that everyone has but only some obsessive over and have a hard time switching off. Like I said there are exceptions but I'm really talking about the most common forms of Pure "o" though which are:- intrusive thoughts or mental images of killing ones spouse, parent, child, or self- recurrent fear of molesting a child- repeatedly worrying that one has or will physically assault another person or run over a pedestrian while driving a car- excessive fears that one might accidentally cause harm to other people (i.e., burning down the house, unknowingly poisoning others, inadvertantly exposing others to toxic chemicals)- repetitive thoughts that one has said or written something inappropriate, such as swearing at ones employer or writing hate-filled letters to a friend- recurrent fearsthat one might be a homosexual, when in fact he or she is not (sometimes called "gay ocd" or "HOCD")- intrusive thoughts or mental images that one considers to be sacrilegious or blasphemous, such as wanting to worship Satan or have sex with Christ.- repeatedly thinking about benign somatic issues such as breathing, swallowing, blinking, eye "floaters", ringing in the ears, digestion, etc. I think ACT is wonderful for these typical types of pure "O" because who want to expose themselves to these things. IME it causes unneeded stress. I guess I do expose myself to my obsessions just living everyday life but then I use ACT to move me forward when I feel like my obsessions might be holding me back.heather.

[Guest guest]

To the extent pure os are trhoughtsSent via DROID on Verizon Wireless Re: Re: OCD-Typical ERP vs ACTNo idea what you mean, Helena:-) but maybe I could just reiterate my original question, maybe to the experts.In other words what is the best way to get someone with "pure" O OCD ( a misnomer if ever there was one by the way!) or indeed anyone without insight that their fears are 100% irrational, to engage with ACT . In other words where on the hexaflex to start or is there no way which works better than any other? BW,S. >> Hi ,>  > One of my "Pure-O" thoughts did  come true and upset me for some time. I think you are referring to a very limited number of examples if you say they never come true. I am not talking about fear of committing a murder (but what if I don't pay attention when driving and kill someone) but of other types of harm/ethical obsessions eg feeling responsble for preventing harm coming to others, fears of not being perfectly honest etc..Actually more than one has come true. >  > I don't think it is ever possible to say there is 100% certainty something will not happen and indeed it is very easy for this to become a form of compulsion or avoidance. Wouldn't you agree?> > S.>  > I'll answer the second part first because it's easier for me. Nothing in life is 100% From what I understand from personal experience and research is compulsions and/or avoidance doesn't come from the fear of the pure "o" from happening but to escape the anxiety that comes from the obsession. Hi , I think you are actually distorting what I wrote or meant to write as maybe I wasn't very clear. I wrote about there being a grain of truth in all obsessions. I don't think it makes sense to differentiate between different types of obsession as far as that is concerned. I'm not sure I see the distinction you are making between fear of the "pure o" happening and the anxiety that comes from the obsession. Not all people with pure-o accept their fears are 100% irrational. Indeed if they did they would not be doing mental compulsions trying to work out the likelihood, engaging in endless debates about whether they could really be potential murderers online, or asking for reassurance that they will never change sexual orientation or unintentionally hurt someone etc.! I do accept that all people have intrusive thoughts so the problem is not accepting anxiety is a normal part of life but trying to avoid it. It's the response to anxiety (intolerance) and the desire for 100% certainty that keeps all types of obsession alive I think. My initial post was really about how to start with ACT to help someone who suffers from overvalued ideation and who at times will recognise their fears are exaggerated but actually continues to behave in a way that shows they intend to play safe in case that 0.000009% likelihood applies to them. To tell them their fear is totally unfounded generally does not seem to work! I agree about ACT being helpful as in vivo exposures to some situations like murder are obviously not desirable, but actually imaginal exposures to the thought that one could indeed become gay overnight, kill someone while driving, and yet survive the indeed awful anxiety (!), can work. My personal tactic though has not been ERP but refusing to avoid situations that could trigger my anxiety - on the whole that has worked in the long run. That would seem to be part of ACT as well. I have many ethical obsessions where actually I do need to work out whether my concern is rational or obsessional and decide my behaviour on that basis. The other day for example I smelt gas and wondered whether it was my imagination /OCD hyperresponsibility. I did not report it and then the next day discovered the road had been dug up to repair the leak. A day or two later I smelt gas somewhere else, reported it, and they could not detect any leak! That time two others without OCD agreed with me that they could smell gas. The current freeze has of course increased the probabliity that there will be gas leaks and that someone's fear of not being the perfect citizen will come true. I doubt whether I am the exception as far as accepting there is some possibility my obsessions are well-founded:-) BW,S.Now to the first part. There is always the exception. Typically though they are just irrational thoughts with no truth to them. Thoughts that everyone has but only some obsessive over and have a hard time switching off. Like I said there are exceptions but I'm really talking about the most common forms of Pure "o" though which are:- intrusive thoughts or mental images of killing ones spouse, parent, child, or self- recurrent fear of molesting a child- repeatedly worrying that one has or will physically assault another person or run over a pedestrian while driving a car- excessive fears that one might accidentally cause harm to other people (i.e., burning down the house, unknowingly poisoning others, inadvertantly exposing others to toxic chemicals)- repetitive thoughts that one has said or written something inappropriate, such as swearing at ones employer or writing hate-filled letters to a friend- recurrent fearsthat one might be a homosexual, when in fact he or she is not (sometimes called "gay ocd" or "HOCD")- intrusive thoughts or mental images that one considers to be sacrilegious or blasphemous, such as wanting to worship Satan or have sex with Christ.- repeatedly thinking about benign somatic issues such as breathing, swallowing, blinking, eye "floaters", ringing in the ears, digestion, etc. I think ACT is wonderful for these typical types of pure "O" because who want to expose themselves to these things. IME it causes unneeded stress. I guess I do expose myself to my obsessions just living everyday life but then I use ACT to move me forward when I feel like my obsessions might be holding me back.heather.

[Guest guest]

I don't think it should matter if the thoughts and fears are rational or irrational. Are they HELPFUL? Or do they do more harm than good? I presume the latter, which is why you are here. It is perfectly OK to defuse from very truthful or even accurate thoughts and fears, if they make things worse! x >> Hi ,>  > One of my "Pure-O" thoughts did  come true and upset me for some time. I think you are referring to a very limited number of examples if you say they never come true. I am not talking about fear of committing a murder (but what if I don't pay attention when driving and kill someone) but of other types of harm/ethical obsessions eg feeling responsble for preventing harm coming to others, fears of not being perfectly honest etc..Actually more than one has come true. >  > I don't think it is ever possible to say there is 100% certainty something will not happen and indeed it is very easy for this to become a form of compulsion or avoidance. Wouldn't you agree?>

 > S.>  > I'll answer the second part first because it's easier for me. Nothing in life is 100% From what I understand from personal experience and research is compulsions and/or avoidance doesn't come from the fear of the pure "o" from happening but to escape the anxiety that comes from the obsession.

Hi ,

I think you are actually distorting what I wrote or meant to write as maybe I wasn't very clear. I wrote about there being a grain of truth in all obsessions. I don't think it makes sense to differentiate between different types of obsession as far as that is concerned. I'm not sure I see the distinction you are making between fear of the "pure o" happening and the anxiety that comes from the obsession. Not all people with pure-o accept their fears are 100% irrational. Indeed if they did they would not be doing mental compulsions trying to work out the likelihood, engaging in endless debates about whether they could really be potential murderers online, or asking for reassurance that they will never change sexual orientation or unintentionally hurt someone etc.!

I do accept that all people have intrusive thoughts so the problem is not accepting anxiety is a normal part of life but trying to avoid it. It's the response to anxiety (intolerance) and the desire for 100% certainty that keeps all types of obsession alive I think.

My initial post was really about how to start with ACT to help someone who suffers from overvalued ideation and who at times will recognise their fears are exaggerated but actually continues to behave in a way that shows they intend to play safe in case that 0.000009% likelihood applies to them. To tell them their fear is totally unfounded generally does not seem to work!

I agree about ACT being helpful as in vivo exposures to some situations like murder are obviously not desirable, but actually imaginal exposures to the thought that one could indeed become gay overnight, kill someone while driving, and yet survive the indeed awful anxiety (!), can work.

My personal tactic though has not been ERP but refusing to avoid situations that could trigger my anxiety - on the whole that has worked in the long run. That would seem to be part of ACT as well.

I have many ethical obsessions where actually I do need to work out whether my concern is rational or obsessional and decide my behaviour on that basis.

The other day for example I smelt gas and wondered whether it was my imagination /OCD hyperresponsibility. I did not report it and then the next day discovered the road had been dug up to repair the leak. A day or two later I smelt gas somewhere else, reported it, and they could not detect any leak! That time two others without OCD agreed with me that they could smell gas. The current freeze has of course increased the probabliity that there will be gas leaks and that someone's fear of not being the perfect citizen will come true.

I doubt whether I am the exception as far as accepting there is some possibility my obsessions are well-founded:-)

BW,

S.

Now to the first part. There is always the exception. Typically though they are just irrational thoughts with no truth to them. Thoughts that everyone has but only some obsessive over and have a hard time switching off. Like I said there are exceptions but I'm really talking about the most common forms of Pure "o" though which are:- intrusive thoughts or mental images of killing ones spouse, parent, child, or self- recurrent fear of molesting a child- repeatedly worrying that one has or will physically assault another person or run over a pedestrian while driving a car- excessive fears that one might accidentally cause harm to other people (i.e., burning down the house, unknowingly poisoning others, inadvertantly exposing others to toxic chemicals)- repetitive thoughts that one has said or written something inappropriate, such as swearing at ones employer or writing hate-filled letters to a friend- recurrent fears

that one might be a homosexual, when in fact he or she is not (sometimes called "gay ocd" or "HOCD")- intrusive thoughts or mental images that one considers to be sacrilegious or blasphemous, such as wanting to worship Satan or have sex with Christ.- repeatedly thinking about benign somatic issues such as breathing, swallowing, blinking, eye "floaters", ringing in the ears, digestion, etc. I think ACT is wonderful for these typical types of pure "O" because who want to expose themselves to these things. IME it causes unneeded stress. I guess I do expose myself to my obsessions just living everyday life but then I use ACT to move me forward when I feel like my obsessions might be holding me back.heather.

[Guest guest]

I agree with what you write. I think I like the bit about it being OK most of all - that is probably something I find hard as it seems like self-deception and I value honesty:-)

I was actually asking for help for someone else for whom it seems to matter a lot whether his fears are grounded. I've tried your approach and seem to get nowhere but maybe it's a case of physician heal thyself? You can only offer help can't you. Funnily enough he seems much more keen to help others with OCD than to do therapy himself. Maybe that's a common problem? It hurts so much to see others suffer and it is so much easier to see the answers to others' problems!

Thanks again,

S. >> Hi ,>  > One of my "Pure-O" thoughts did  come true and upset me for some time. I think you are referring to a very limited number of examples if you say they never come true. I am not talking about fear of committing a murder (but what if I don't pay attention when driving and kill someone) but of other types of harm/ethical obsessions eg feeling responsble for preventing harm coming to others, fears of not being perfectly honest etc..Actually more than one has come true. >  > I don't think it is ever possible to say there is 100% certainty something will not happen and indeed it is very easy for this to become a form of compulsion or avoidance. Wouldn't you agree?>

 > S.>  > I'll answer the second part first because it's easier for me. Nothing in life is 100% From what I understand from personal experience and research is compulsions and/or avoidance doesn't come from the fear of the pure "o" from happening but to escape the anxiety that comes from the obsession.

Hi ,

I think you are actually distorting what I wrote or meant to write as maybe I wasn't very clear. I wrote about there being a grain of truth in all obsessions. I don't think it makes sense to differentiate between different types of obsession as far as that is concerned. I'm not sure I see the distinction you are making between fear of the "pure o" happening and the anxiety that comes from the obsession. Not all people with pure-o accept their fears are 100% irrational. Indeed if they did they would not be doing mental compulsions trying to work out the likelihood, engaging in endless debates about whether they could really be potential murderers online, or asking for reassurance that they will never change sexual orientation or unintentionally hurt someone etc.!

I do accept that all people have intrusive thoughts so the problem is not accepting anxiety is a normal part of life but trying to avoid it. It's the response to anxiety (intolerance) and the desire for 100% certainty that keeps all types of obsession alive I think.

My initial post was really about how to start with ACT to help someone who suffers from overvalued ideation and who at times will recognise their fears are exaggerated but actually continues to behave in a way that shows they intend to play safe in case that 0.000009% likelihood applies to them. To tell them their fear is totally unfounded generally does not seem to work!

I agree about ACT being helpful as in vivo exposures to some situations like murder are obviously not desirable, but actually imaginal exposures to the thought that one could indeed become gay overnight, kill someone while driving, and yet survive the indeed awful anxiety (!), can work.

My personal tactic though has not been ERP but refusing to avoid situations that could trigger my anxiety - on the whole that has worked in the long run. That would seem to be part of ACT as well.

I have many ethical obsessions where actually I do need to work out whether my concern is rational or obsessional and decide my behaviour on that basis.

The other day for example I smelt gas and wondered whether it was my imagination /OCD hyperresponsibility. I did not report it and then the next day discovered the road had been dug up to repair the leak. A day or two later I smelt gas somewhere else, reported it, and they could not detect any leak! That time two others without OCD agreed with me that they could smell gas. The current freeze has of course increased the probabliity that there will be gas leaks and that someone's fear of not being the perfect citizen will come true.

I doubt whether I am the exception as far as accepting there is some possibility my obsessions are well-founded:-)

BW,

S.

Now to the first part. There is always the exception. Typically though they are just irrational thoughts with no truth to them. Thoughts that everyone has but only some obsessive over and have a hard time switching off. Like I said there are exceptions but I'm really talking about the most common forms of Pure "o" though which are:- intrusive thoughts or mental images of killing ones spouse, parent, child, or self- recurrent fear of molesting a child- repeatedly worrying that one has or will physically assault another person or run over a pedestrian while driving a car- excessive fears that one might accidentally cause harm to other people (i.e., burning down the house, unknowingly poisoning others, inadvertantly exposing others to toxic chemicals)- repetitive thoughts that one has said or written something inappropriate, such as swearing at ones employer or writing hate-filled letters to a friend- recurrent fears

that one might be a homosexual, when in fact he or she is not (sometimes called "gay ocd" or "HOCD")- intrusive thoughts or mental images that one considers to be sacrilegious or blasphemous, such as wanting to worship Satan or have sex with Christ.- repeatedly thinking about benign somatic issues such as breathing, swallowing, blinking, eye "floaters", ringing in the ears, digestion, etc. I think ACT is wonderful for these typical types of pure "O" because who want to expose themselves to these things. IME it causes unneeded stress. I guess I do expose myself to my obsessions just living everyday life but then I use ACT to move me forward when I feel like my obsessions might be holding me back.heather.

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Bill. Sounds good.

S. >> Hi ,>  > One of my "Pure-O" thoughts did  come true and upset me for some time. I think you are referring to a very limited number of examples if you say they never come true. I am not talking about fear of committing a murder (but what if I don't pay attention when driving and kill someone) but of other types of harm/ethical obsessions eg feeling responsble for preventing harm coming to others, fears of not being perfectly honest etc..Actually more than one has come true. >  > I don't think it is ever possible to say there is 100% certainty something will not happen and indeed it is very easy for this to become a form of compulsion or avoidance. Wouldn't you agree?>

 > S.>  > I'll answer the second part first because it's easier for me. Nothing in life is 100% From what I understand from personal experience and research is compulsions and/or avoidance doesn't come from the fear of the pure "o" from happening but to escape the anxiety that comes from the obsession.

Hi ,

I think you are actually distorting what I wrote or meant to write as maybe I wasn't very clear. I wrote about there being a grain of truth in all obsessions. I don't think it makes sense to differentiate between different types of obsession as far as that is concerned. I'm not sure I see the distinction you are making between fear of the "pure o" happening and the anxiety that comes from the obsession. Not all people with pure-o accept their fears are 100% irrational. Indeed if they did they would not be doing mental compulsions trying to work out the likelihood, engaging in endless debates about whether they could really be potential murderers online, or asking for reassurance that they will never change sexual orientation or unintentionally hurt someone etc.!

I do accept that all people have intrusive thoughts so the problem is not accepting anxiety is a normal part of life but trying to avoid it. It's the response to anxiety (intolerance) and the desire for 100% certainty that keeps all types of obsession alive I think.

My initial post was really about how to start with ACT to help someone who suffers from overvalued ideation and who at times will recognise their fears are exaggerated but actually continues to behave in a way that shows they intend to play safe in case that 0.000009% likelihood applies to them. To tell them their fear is totally unfounded generally does not seem to work!

I agree about ACT being helpful as in vivo exposures to some situations like murder are obviously not desirable, but actually imaginal exposures to the thought that one could indeed become gay overnight, kill someone while driving, and yet survive the indeed awful anxiety (!), can work.

My personal tactic though has not been ERP but refusing to avoid situations that could trigger my anxiety - on the whole that has worked in the long run. That would seem to be part of ACT as well.

I have many ethical obsessions where actually I do need to work out whether my concern is rational or obsessional and decide my behaviour on that basis.

The other day for example I smelt gas and wondered whether it was my imagination /OCD hyperresponsibility. I did not report it and then the next day discovered the road had been dug up to repair the leak. A day or two later I smelt gas somewhere else, reported it, and they could not detect any leak! That time two others without OCD agreed with me that they could smell gas. The current freeze has of course increased the probabliity that there will be gas leaks and that someone's fear of not being the perfect citizen will come true.

I doubt whether I am the exception as far as accepting there is some possibility my obsessions are well-founded:-)

BW,

S.

Now to the first part. There is always the exception. Typically though they are just irrational thoughts with no truth to them. Thoughts that everyone has but only some obsessive over and have a hard time switching off. Like I said there are exceptions but I'm really talking about the most common forms of Pure "o" though which are:- intrusive thoughts or mental images of killing ones spouse, parent, child, or self- recurrent fear of molesting a child- repeatedly worrying that one has or will physically assault another person or run over a pedestrian while driving a car- excessive fears that one might accidentally cause harm to other people (i.e., burning down the house, unknowingly poisoning others, inadvertantly exposing others to toxic chemicals)- repetitive thoughts that one has said or written something inappropriate, such as swearing at ones employer or writing hate-filled letters to a friend- recurrent fears

that one might be a homosexual, when in fact he or she is not (sometimes called "gay ocd" or "HOCD")- intrusive thoughts or mental images that one considers to be sacrilegious or blasphemous, such as wanting to worship Satan or have sex with Christ.- repeatedly thinking about benign somatic issues such as breathing, swallowing, blinking, eye "floaters", ringing in the ears, digestion, etc. I think ACT is wonderful for these typical types of pure "O" because who want to expose themselves to these things. IME it causes unneeded stress. I guess I do expose myself to my obsessions just living everyday life but then I use ACT to move me forward when I feel like my obsessions might be holding me back.heather.

[Guest guest]

Not quite sure what you meant here, Bill, but it can wait:-)

S. >> Hi ,>  > One of my "Pure-O" thoughts did  come true and upset me for some time. I think you are referring to a very limited number of examples if you say they never come true. I am not talking about fear of committing a murder (but what if I don't pay attention when driving and kill someone) but of other types of harm/ethical obsessions eg feeling responsble for preventing harm coming to others, fears of not being perfectly honest etc..Actually more than one has come true. >  > I don't think it is ever possible to say there is 100% certainty something will not happen and indeed it is very easy for this to become a form of compulsion or avoidance. Wouldn't you agree?>

 > S.>  > I'll answer the second part first because it's easier for me. Nothing in life is 100% From what I understand from personal experience and research is compulsions and/or avoidance doesn't come from the fear of the pure "o" from happening but to escape the anxiety that comes from the obsession.

Hi ,

I think you are actually distorting what I wrote or meant to write as maybe I wasn't very clear. I wrote about there being a grain of truth in all obsessions. I don't think it makes sense to differentiate between different types of obsession as far as that is concerned. I'm not sure I see the distinction you are making between fear of the "pure o" happening and the anxiety that comes from the obsession. Not all people with pure-o accept their fears are 100% irrational. Indeed if they did they would not be doing mental compulsions trying to work out the likelihood, engaging in endless debates about whether they could really be potential murderers online, or asking for reassurance that they will never change sexual orientation or unintentionally hurt someone etc.!

I do accept that all people have intrusive thoughts so the problem is not accepting anxiety is a normal part of life but trying to avoid it. It's the response to anxiety (intolerance) and the desire for 100% certainty that keeps all types of obsession alive I think.

My initial post was really about how to start with ACT to help someone who suffers from overvalued ideation and who at times will recognise their fears are exaggerated but actually continues to behave in a way that shows they intend to play safe in case that 0.000009% likelihood applies to them. To tell them their fear is totally unfounded generally does not seem to work!

I agree about ACT being helpful as in vivo exposures to some situations like murder are obviously not desirable, but actually imaginal exposures to the thought that one could indeed become gay overnight, kill someone while driving, and yet survive the indeed awful anxiety (!), can work.

My personal tactic though has not been ERP but refusing to avoid situations that could trigger my anxiety - on the whole that has worked in the long run. That would seem to be part of ACT as well.

I have many ethical obsessions where actually I do need to work out whether my concern is rational or obsessional and decide my behaviour on that basis.

The other day for example I smelt gas and wondered whether it was my imagination /OCD hyperresponsibility. I did not report it and then the next day discovered the road had been dug up to repair the leak. A day or two later I smelt gas somewhere else, reported it, and they could not detect any leak! That time two others without OCD agreed with me that they could smell gas. The current freeze has of course increased the probabliity that there will be gas leaks and that someone's fear of not being the perfect citizen will come true.

I doubt whether I am the exception as far as accepting there is some possibility my obsessions are well-founded:-)

BW,

S.

Now to the first part. There is always the exception. Typically though they are just irrational thoughts with no truth to them. Thoughts that everyone has but only some obsessive over and have a hard time switching off. Like I said there are exceptions but I'm really talking about the most common forms of Pure "o" though which are:- intrusive thoughts or mental images of killing ones spouse, parent, child, or self- recurrent fear of molesting a child- repeatedly worrying that one has or will physically assault another person or run over a pedestrian while driving a car- excessive fears that one might accidentally cause harm to other people (i.e., burning down the house, unknowingly poisoning others, inadvertantly exposing others to toxic chemicals)- repetitive thoughts that one has said or written something inappropriate, such as swearing at ones employer or writing hate-filled letters to a friend- recurrent fears

that one might be a homosexual, when in fact he or she is not (sometimes called "gay ocd" or "HOCD")- intrusive thoughts or mental images that one considers to be sacrilegious or blasphemous, such as wanting to worship Satan or have sex with Christ.- repeatedly thinking about benign somatic issues such as breathing, swallowing, blinking, eye "floaters", ringing in the ears, digestion, etc. I think ACT is wonderful for these typical types of pure "O" because who want to expose themselves to these things. IME it causes unneeded stress. I guess I do expose myself to my obsessions just living everyday life but then I use ACT to move me forward when I feel like my obsessions might be holding me back.heather.

[Guest guest]

Got sent by mistake. My second message was betterSent via DROID on Verizon Wireless Re: Re: OCD-Typical ERP vs ACTNot quite sure what you meant here, Bill, but it can wait:-)S. >> Hi ,>  > One of my "Pure-O" thoughts did  come true and upset me for some time. I think you are referring to a very limited number of examples if you say they never come true. I am not talking about fear of committing a murder (but what if I don't pay attention when driving and kill someone) but of other types of harm/ethical obsessions eg feeling responsble for preventing harm coming to others, fears of not being perfectly honest etc..Actually more than one has come true. >  > I don't think it is ever possible to say there is 100% certainty something will not happen and indeed it is very easy for this to become a form of compulsion or avoidance. Wouldn't you agree?> > S.>  > I'll answer the second part first because it's easier for me. Nothing in life is 100% From what I understand from personal experience and research is compulsions and/or avoidance doesn't come from the fear of the pure "o" from happening but to escape the anxiety that comes from the obsession. Hi , I think you are actually distorting what I wrote or meant to write as maybe I wasn't very clear. I wrote about there being a grain of truth in all obsessions. I don't think it makes sense to differentiate between different types of obsession as far as that is concerned. I'm not sure I see the distinction you are making between fear of the "pure o" happening and the anxiety that comes from the obsession. Not all people with pure-o accept their fears are 100% irrational. Indeed if they did they would not be doing mental compulsions trying to work out the likelihood, engaging in endless debates about whether they could really be potential murderers online, or asking for reassurance that they will never change sexual orientation or unintentionally hurt someone etc.! I do accept that all people have intrusive thoughts so the problem is not accepting anxiety is a normal part of life but trying to avoid it. It's the response to anxiety (intolerance) and the desire for 100% certainty that keeps all types of obsession alive I think. My initial post was really about how to start with ACT to help someone who suffers from overvalued ideation and who at times will recognise their fears are exaggerated but actually continues to behave in a way that shows they intend to play safe in case that 0.000009% likelihood applies to them. To tell them their fear is totally unfounded generally does not seem to work! I agree about ACT being helpful as in vivo exposures to some situations like murder are obviously not desirable, but actually imaginal exposures to the thought that one could indeed become gay overnight, kill someone while driving, and yet survive the indeed awful anxiety (!), can work. My personal tactic though has not been ERP but refusing to avoid situations that could trigger my anxiety - on the whole that has worked in the long run. That would seem to be part of ACT as well. I have many ethical obsessions where actually I do need to work out whether my concern is rational or obsessional and decide my behaviour on that basis. The other day for example I smelt gas and wondered whether it was my imagination /OCD hyperresponsibility. I did not report it and then the next day discovered the road had been dug up to repair the leak. A day or two later I smelt gas somewhere else, reported it, and they could not detect any leak! That time two others without OCD agreed with me that they could smell gas. The current freeze has of course increased the probabliity that there will be gas leaks and that someone's fear of not being the perfect citizen will come true. I doubt whether I am the exception as far as accepting there is some possibility my obsessions are well-founded:-) BW,S.Now to the first part. There is always the exception. Typically though they are just irrational thoughts with no truth to them. Thoughts that everyone has but only some obsessive over and have a hard time switching off. Like I said there are exceptions but I'm really talking about the most common forms of Pure "o" though which are:- intrusive thoughts or mental images of killing ones spouse, parent, child, or self- recurrent fear of molesting a child- repeatedly worrying that one has or will physically assault another person or run over a pedestrian while driving a car- excessive fears that one might accidentally cause harm to other people (i.e., burning down the house, unknowingly poisoning others, inadvertantly exposing others to toxic chemicals)- repetitive thoughts that one has said or written something inappropriate, such as swearing at ones employer or writing hate-filled letters to a friend- recurrent fearsthat one might be a homosexual, when in fact he or she is not (sometimes called "gay ocd" or "HOCD")- intrusive thoughts or mental images that one considers to be sacrilegious or blasphemous, such as wanting to worship Satan or have sex with Christ.- repeatedly thinking about benign somatic issues such as breathing, swallowing, blinking, eye "floaters", ringing in the ears, digestion, etc. I think ACT is wonderful for these typical types of pure "O" because who want to expose themselves to these things. IME it causes unneeded stress. I guess I do expose myself to my obsessions just living everyday life but then I use ACT to move me forward when I feel like my obsessions might be holding me back.heather.