Re: Why do we thank our mind?

[Guest guest]

PS:Reflecting on what is said in The Happiness Trap about thoughts being helpful or not, maybe I could even say: "I hear you, but that is not a helpful thought at the moment" (don't think "buts" are supposed to be a good idea) maybe: "I hear you and that is not a helpful thought at the moment" ( a bit long winded ha!)--- El mar, 11/1/11, Miss Equanimity escribió:De: Miss Equanimity Asunto: Why do we thank our mind?Para: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Fecha: martes, 11 de enero, 2011 13:10

I was just wondering about this as I was reading The Happiness Trap. I think I kind of understand it, but on the other hand it seems "wrong". I imagine we thank our mind because its a way of not arguing or being in conflict with it, and also by saying thank you we show we are aware of it. However if I have an intrusive thought of the type " I am going to fall down the stairs and badly hurt myself" it seems strange to say "thank you mind". Why? I suppose Its because i use the word thank you as a way of motivating children, if I I am positive and say thank you for their behaviour they will probably repeat it. I suppose it doesn't really work that way with thoughts (I hope not anyway). I know its not about getting rid of ect but I certainly don't want to motivate nasty thoughts to be more recurrent if you know what I

mean. I am

thinking maybe I could say as an alternative "I hear you". That way I acknowledge the thought without "patting in on the back". :)As i said at the beginning I can get where the thanking bit comes from, but I suppose I would like to know some more. Take care all XXX

[Guest guest]

I think it's because our minds actually generate these thoughts in order to protect us. Producing these thoughts is what our minds know how to do, and being angry with them for producing thoughts (helpful or unhelpful) is like being angry with a baby for crying. So we thank our minds for doing their jobs, even if what they produce in the moment isn't something we want to use. Sent from my iPhone

PS:Reflecting on what is said in The Happiness Trap about thoughts being helpful or not, maybe I could even say: "I hear you, but that is not a helpful thought at the moment" (don't think "buts" are supposed to be a good idea) maybe: "I hear you and that is not a helpful thought at the moment" ( a bit long winded ha!)--- El mar, 11/1/11, Miss Equanimity escribió:De: Miss Equanimity Asunto: Why do we thank our mind?Para: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Fecha: martes, 11 de enero, 2011 13:10

I was just wondering about this as I was reading The Happiness Trap. I think I kind of understand it, but on the other hand it seems "wrong". I imagine we thank our mind because its a way of not arguing or being in conflict with it, and also by saying thank you we show we are aware of it. However if I have an intrusive thought of the type " I am going to fall down the stairs and badly hurt myself" it seems strange to say "thank you mind". Why? I suppose Its because i use the word thank you as a way of motivating children, if I I am positive and say thank you for their behaviour they will probably repeat it. I suppose it doesn't really work that way with thoughts (I hope not anyway). I know its not about getting rid of ect but I certainly don't want to motivate nasty thoughts to be more recurrent if you know what I

mean. I am

thinking maybe I could say as an alternative "I hear you". That way I acknowledge the thought without "patting in on the back". :)As i said at the beginning I can get where the thanking bit comes from, but I suppose I would like to know some more. Take care all XXX

[Guest guest]

I think we thank the mind, even if the thought is not useful, as it involves

complete acknowledgment of the thought (while not buying into it) without

struggle. " I hear you, but that is not a helpful thought at the moment " seems to

contain an element of rejection or avoidance to me.

I didn't expect thanking the mind to be very effective for me, but it has turned

out to be - particularly for busy, messy thought patterns which don't lend

themselves to singing, silly voices, repetition etc.

bb

>

> PS:

> Reflecting on what is said in The Happiness Trap about thoughts being helpful

or not, maybe I could even say: " I hear you, but that is not a helpful thought

at the moment " (don't think " buts " are supposed to be a good idea) maybe: " I

hear you and that is not a helpful thought at the moment " ( a bit long winded

ha!)

>

> --- El mar, 11/1/11, Miss Equanimity escribió:

>

> De: Miss Equanimity

> Asunto: Why do we thank our mind?

> Para: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

> Fecha: martes, 11 de enero, 2011 13:10

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> I was just wondering about this as I was reading The Happiness Trap. I

think I kind of understand it, but on the other hand it seems " wrong " . I imagine

we thank our mind because its a way of not arguing or being in conflict with it,

and also by saying thank you we show we are aware of it. However if I have

an intrusive thought of the type " I am going to fall down the stairs and

badly hurt myself " it seems strange to say " thank you mind " . Why? I suppose Its

because i use the word thank you as a way of motivating children, if I I am

positive and say thank you for their behaviour they will probably repeat it. I

suppose it doesn't really work that way with thoughts (I hope not anyway). I

know its not about getting rid of ect but I certainly don't want to motivate

nasty thoughts to be more recurrent if you know what I mean. 

> I am

> thinking maybe I could say as an alternative " I hear you " . That way I

acknowledge the thought without " patting in on the back " .

> As i said at the beginning I can get where the thanking bit comes from, but I

suppose I would like to know some more. Take care all XXX

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I do agree with both what you and have said. As for saying its helpful or not as avoidance, I thought that was supposed to be said, maybe I got The Happiness Trap wrong (I've not finished yet anyhow). I understood if a thought is helpful, you may choose or not to elaborate, if is unhelpful you defuse. --- El mar, 11/1/11, banoffibear escribió:De: banoffibear Asunto: Re: Why do we thank our mind?Para: ACT_for_the_Public Fecha: martes, 11 de enero, 2011 13:42

I think we thank the mind, even if the thought is not useful, as it involves complete acknowledgment of the thought (while not buying into it) without struggle. "I hear you, but that is not a helpful thought at the moment" seems to contain an element of rejection or avoidance to me.

I didn't expect thanking the mind to be very effective for me, but it has turned out to be - particularly for busy, messy thought patterns which don't lend themselves to singing, silly voices, repetition etc.

bb

>

> PS:

> Reflecting on what is said in The Happiness Trap about thoughts being helpful or not, maybe I could even say: "I hear you, but that is not a helpful thought at the moment" (don't think "buts" are supposed to be a good idea) maybe: "I hear you and that is not a helpful thought at the moment" ( a bit long winded ha!)

>

> --- El mar, 11/1/11, Miss Equanimity escribió:

>

> De: Miss Equanimity

> Asunto: Why do we thank our mind?

> Para: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >

> Fecha: martes, 11 de enero, 2011 13:10

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> I was just wondering about this as I was reading The Happiness Trap. I think I kind of understand it, but on the other hand it seems "wrong". I imagine we thank our mind because its a way of not arguing or being in conflict with it, and also by saying thank you we show we are aware of it. However if I have an intrusive thought of the type " I am going to fall down the stairs and badly hurt myself" it seems strange to say "thank you mind". Why? I suppose Its because i use the word thank you as a way of motivating children, if I I am positive and say thank you for their behaviour they will probably repeat it. I suppose it doesn't really work that way with thoughts (I hope not anyway). I know its not about getting rid of ect but I certainly don't want to motivate nasty thoughts to be more recurrent if you know what I mean.Â

> I am

> thinking maybe I could say as an alternative "I hear you". That way I acknowledge the thought without "patting in on the back".

> As i said at the beginning I can get where the thanking bit comes from, but I suppose I would like to know some more. Take care all XXX

>

[Guest guest]

I agree, we have to decide whether the thought is helpful or not. But maybe it

makes defusion more effective if we keep that judgement out of the defusion

process itself. Deciding whether a thought is useful is more of a values/actions

process I think.

bb

>

> >

>

> > PS:

>

> > Reflecting on what is said in The Happiness Trap about thoughts being

helpful or not, maybe I could even say: " I hear you, but that is not a helpful

thought at the moment " (don't think " buts " are supposed to be a good idea)

maybe: " I hear you and that is not a helpful thought at the moment " ( a bit long

winded ha!)

>

> >

>

> > --- El mar, 11/1/11, Miss Equanimity <tobepresentnow@> escribió:

>

> >

>

> > De: Miss Equanimity <tobepresentnow@>

>

> > Asunto: Why do we thank our mind?

>

> > Para: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

>

> > Fecha: martes, 11 de enero, 2011 13:10

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> > I was just wondering about this as I was reading The Happiness Trap. I

think I kind of understand it, but on the other hand it seems " wrong " . I imagine

we thank our mind because its a way of not arguing or being in conflict with it,

and also by saying thank you we show we are aware of it. However if I have

an intrusive thought of the type " I am going to fall down the stairs and

badly hurt myself " it seems strange to say " thank you mind " . Why? I suppose Its

because i use the word thank you as a way of motivating children, if I I am

positive and say thank you for their behaviour they will probably repeat it. I

suppose it doesn't really work that way with thoughts (I hope not anyway). I

know its not about getting rid of ect but I certainly don't want to motivate

nasty thoughts to be more recurrent if you know what I mean. 

>

> > I am

>

> > thinking maybe I could say as an alternative " I hear you " . That way I

acknowledge the thought without " patting in on the back " .

>

> > As i said at the beginning I can get where the thanking bit comes from, but

I suppose I would like to know some more. Take care all XXX

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

For me, thanking my mind conjures of an image of being verbally attacked by a bully. You can try to escape from the bully (but he will follow you), you can ignore him (which will make him more determined), you can confront him (which will escalate the attack), you can try to reason with him (which doesn't work with a bully), you can tremble in fear or break down and cry (which will leave you feeling helpless), or you can simply smile and say "Thank you." By that simple "thank you" you are sending the bully the message that you don't think he is important enough to engage with, so you calmly acknowledge him and move on. He will be caught off-guard by that simple response and it may take all the wind out of his sails.

Helena

Re: Re: Why do we thank our mind?

Yes, I do agree with both what you and have said. As for saying its helpful or not as avoidance, I thought that was supposed to be said, maybe I got The Happiness Trap wrong (I've not finished yet anyhow). I understood if a thought is helpful, you may choose or not to elaborate, if is unhelpful you defuse. --- El mar, 11/1/11, banoffibear escribió:

De: banoffibear Asunto: Re: Why do we thank our mind?Para: ACT_for_the_Public Fecha: martes, 11 de enero, 2011 13:42

I think we thank the mind, even if the thought is not useful, as it involves complete acknowledgment of the thought (while not buying into it) without struggle. "I hear you, but that is not a helpful thought at the moment" seems to contain an element of rejection or avoidance to me. I didn't expect thanking the mind to be very effective for me, but it has turned out to be - particularly for busy, messy thought patterns which don't lend themselves to singing, silly voices, repetition etc.bb>> PS:> Reflecting on what is said in The Happiness Trap about thoughts being helpful or not, maybe I could even say: "I hear you, but that is not a helpful thought at the moment" (don't think "buts" are supposed to be a good idea) maybe: "I hear you and that is not a helpful thought at the moment" ( a bit long winded ha!)> > --- El mar, 11/1/11, Miss Equanimity escribió:> > De: Miss Equanimity > Asunto: Why do we thank our mind?> Para: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >> Fecha: martes, 11 de enero, 2011 13:10> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > I was just wondering about this as I was reading The Happiness Trap. I think I kind of understand it, but on the other hand it seems "wrong". I imagine we thank our mind because its a way of not arguing or being in conflict with it, and also by saying thank you we show we are aware of it. However if I have an intrusive thought of the type " I am going to fall down the stairs and badly hurt myself" it seems strange to say "thank you mind". Why? I suppose Its because i use the word thank you as a way of motivating children, if I I am positive and say thank you for their behaviour they will probably repeat it. I suppose it doesn't really work that way with thoughts (I hope not anyway). I know its not about getting rid of ect but I certainly don't want to motivate nasty thoughts to be more recurrent if you know what I mean. > I am> thinking maybe I could say as an alternative "I hear you". That way I acknowledge the thought without "patting in on the back". > As i said at the beginning I can get where the thanking bit comes from, but I suppose I would like to know some more. Take care all XXX>

[Guest guest]

THIS is my struggle with defusion. The judgment -- " should I be defusing this thought? " -- makes it nearly impossible for me to defuse from thoughts. And for me, calling a thought " unhelpful " or " helpful " gets so entangled in all the other arguments in my head that as soon as I try to decide if a thought is helpful, I'm off again, caught in the fusion web, totally lost in my head.

What I've been trying to do is just forget defusion for now and try to practice mindfulness. This is also a struggle for me but is easier than defusion. Sometimes, since I know of many defusion exercises, I will practice them without complete awareness that I'm doing so, but as soon as I recognize it -- " have a thought about defusion " so to speak -- I get caught in the web again.

How do you leave " helpful vs. unhelpful " OUT of the defusion process? Is this even possible?

 

I agree, we have to decide whether the thought is helpful or not. But maybe it makes defusion more effective if we keep that judgement out of the defusion process itself. Deciding whether a thought is useful is more of a values/actions process I think.

bb

>

> >

>

> > PS:

>

> > Reflecting on what is said in The Happiness Trap about thoughts being helpful or not, maybe I could even say: " I hear you, but that is not a helpful thought at the moment " (don't think " buts " are supposed to be a good idea) maybe: " I hear you and that is not a helpful thought at the moment " ( a bit long winded ha!)

>

> >

>

> > --- El mar, 11/1/11, Miss Equanimity <tobepresentnow@> escribió:

>

> >

>

> > De: Miss Equanimity <tobepresentnow@>

>

> > Asunto: Why do we thank our mind?

>

> > Para: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

>

> > Fecha: martes, 11 de enero, 2011 13:10

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> > I was just wondering about this as I was reading The Happiness Trap. I think I kind of understand it, but on the other hand it seems " wrong " . I imagine we thank our mind because its a way of not arguing or being in conflict with it, and also by saying thank you we show we are aware of it. However if I have an intrusive thought of the type " I am going to fall down the stairs and badly hurt myself " it seems strange to say " thank you mind " . Why? I suppose Its because i use the word thank you as a way of motivating children, if I I am positive and say thank you for their behaviour they will probably repeat it. I suppose it doesn't really work that way with thoughts (I hope not anyway). I know its not about getting rid of ect but I certainly don't want to motivate nasty thoughts to be more recurrent if you know what I mean. 

>

> > I am

>

> > thinking maybe I could say as an alternative " I hear you " . That way I acknowledge the thought without " patting in on the back " .

>

> > As i said at the beginning I can get where the thanking bit comes from, but I suppose I would like to know some more. Take care all XXX

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

The way I see it (and I'm happy to be corrected) is that defusion has exactly

one purpose, which is to make the nature of thoughts more obvious. They are

" merely sounds, words, stories, or bits of language " , rather than the " absolute

truth " which is " very important " (THT, p.48). So it can be applied equally to

helpful, unhelpful, or neutral thoughts.

If judging whether a thought is useful or not is causing you to get caught up in

a web of thoughts, why not try just defusing from it anyway? There's no harm in

defusing from helpful thoughts too - you can still act on them - but they *are*

just thoughts.

bb

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > PS:

> > >

> > > > Reflecting on what is said in The Happiness Trap about thoughts being

> > helpful or not, maybe I could even say: " I hear you, but that is not a

> > helpful thought at the moment " (don't think " buts " are supposed to be a good

> > idea) maybe: " I hear you and that is not a helpful thought at the moment " (

> > a bit long winded ha!)

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > --- El mar, 11/1/11, Miss Equanimity <tobepresentnow@> escribiÃÆ'³:

> >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > De: Miss Equanimity <tobepresentnow@>

> > >

> > > > Asunto: Why do we thank our mind?

> > >

> > > > Para: " ACT for the Public "

<ACT_for_the_Public <ACT_for_the_Public%40yahoogroups.com>

> > >

> > >

> > > > Fecha: martes, 11 de enero, 2011 13:10

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> > > > I was just wondering about this as I was reading The Happiness Trap. I

> > think I kind of understand it, but on the other hand it seems " wrong " . I

> > imagine we thank our mind because its a way of not arguing or being in

> > conflict with it, and also by saying thank you we show we are aware of it.

> > However if I have an intrusive thought of the type " I am

going to

> > fall down the stairs and badly hurt myself " it seems strange to say " thank

> > you mind " . Why? I suppose Its because i use the word thank you as a way of

> > motivating children, if I I am positive and say thank you for their

> > behaviour they will probably repeat it. I suppose it doesn't really work

> > that way with thoughts (I hope not anyway). I know its not about getting rid

> > of ect but I certainly don't want to motivate nasty thoughts to be more

> > recurrent if you know what I mean.ÂÂ

> >

> > >

> > > > I am

> > >

> > > > thinking maybe I could say as an alternative " I hear you " . That way I

> > acknowledge the thought without " patting in on the back " .

> > >

> > > > As i said at the beginning I can get where the thanking bit comes from,

> > but I suppose I would like to know some more. Take care all XXX

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> THIS is my struggle with defusion. The judgment -- 

> " should I be defusing this thought? " -- makes it nearly

> impossible for me to defuse from thoughts.

I've experienced this too & it seems a common dilemma.

Underneath it there is a sort of question, " How do I know

what thoughts to trust if they are all just thoughts? " In a

way this is the mind refusing to trust anything but itself

.... thus grabbing its own tail. 

A useful exercise here might be " Leaves floating on a 

stream. " I assume you know it already. What is intriguing

about it is that it's mostly about learning what it is like to

get " hooked " by thoughts. Very simple that way and the

useful ability that is learned does not depend at all on

overt evaluations such as " Should I defuse from this

thought? "  

Worth a try, maybe. 

-R.

[Guest guest]

The GOOYMAIYL workbook gives a few hints when to defuse a thought. Basically, it tells you the "symptoms" of when you're fusing with a thought; here they are:"Your thoughts feel old, familiar, and lifeless"You submerge into your thoughts and the external world disappears for a while"Your mind feels comparative and evaluative"You are mentally somewhere else or in some other time"Your mind has a heavy 'right and wrong' feel"Your mind is busy or confusing"Along with these, it also mentions your maladaptive behaviors. Basically if you're experiencing the above and doing things that are maladaptive in the long run, you're fusing with thoughts. That will be the right time to defuse!I think you're probably fusing with the meta-thought "is

this thought helpful or unhelpful?" However, I can't say for sure. You are a better judge at that.

I agree, we have to decide whether the thought is helpful or not. But maybe it makes defusion more effective if we keep that judgement out of the defusion process itself. Deciding whether a thought is useful is more of a values/actions process I think.

bb

>

> >

>

> > PS:

>

> > Reflecting on what is said in The Happiness Trap about thoughts being helpful or not, maybe I could even say: "I hear you, but that is not a helpful thought at the moment" (don't think "buts" are supposed to be a good idea) maybe: "I hear you and that is not a helpful thought at the moment" ( a bit long winded ha!)

>

> >

>

> > --- El mar, 11/1/11, Miss Equanimity <tobepresentnow@> escribió:

>

> >

>

> > De: Miss Equanimity <tobepresentnow@>

>

> > Asunto: Why do we thank our mind?

>

> > Para: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >

>

> > Fecha: martes, 11 de enero, 2011 13:10

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> > I was just wondering about this as I was reading The Happiness Trap. I think I kind of understand it, but on the other hand it seems "wrong". I imagine we thank our mind because its a way of not arguing or being in conflict with it, and also by saying thank you we show we are aware of it. However if I have an intrusive thought of the type " I am going to fall down the stairs and badly hurt myself" it seems strange to say "thank you mind". Why? I suppose Its because i use the word thank you as a way of motivating children, if I I am positive and say thank you for their behaviour they will probably repeat it. I suppose it doesn't really work that way with thoughts (I hope not anyway). I know its not about getting rid of ect but I certainly don't want to motivate nasty thoughts to be more recurrent if you know what I mean.ÂÂ

>

> > I am

>

> > thinking maybe I could say as an alternative "I hear you". That way I acknowledge the thought without "patting in on the back".

>

> > As i said at the beginning I can get where the thanking bit comes from, but I suppose I would like to know some more. Take care all XXX

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Eek I have read these as well -- these are so many criteria to go through! Maybe I am just constantly fused and live in my head almost all of the time but when I try to use criteria to judge a thought as to whether it needs to be defused, I get too caught up in the decision --  " Does this criteria apply to my thought?? " -- and then I'm lost again!! I can't tell, am I fused with the decision thoughts too? The metathoughts are hard to defuse from -- I need them to even be able to defuse.

??Frustrated,

 

The GOOYMAIYL workbook gives a few hints when to defuse a thought. Basically, it tells you the " symptoms " of when you're fusing with a thought; here they are:

" Your thoughts feel old, familiar, and lifeless " You submerge into your thoughts and the external world disappears for a while " Your mind feels comparative and evaluative

" You are mentally somewhere else or in some other time " Your mind has a heavy 'right and wrong' feel " Your mind is busy or confusing " Along with these, it also mentions your maladaptive behaviors. Basically if you're experiencing the above and doing things that are maladaptive in the long run, you're fusing with thoughts. That will be the right time to defuse!

I think you're probably fusing with the meta-thought " is

this thought helpful or unhelpful? " However, I can't say for sure. You are a better judge at that.

 

I agree, we have to decide whether the thought is helpful or not. But maybe it makes defusion more effective if we keep that judgement out of the defusion process itself. Deciding whether a thought is useful is more of a values/actions process I think.

bb

>

> >

>

> > PS:

>

> > Reflecting on what is said in The Happiness Trap about thoughts being helpful or not, maybe I could even say: " I hear you, but that is not a helpful thought at the moment " (don't think " buts " are supposed to be a good idea) maybe: " I hear you and that is not a helpful thought at the moment " ( a bit long winded ha!)

>

> >

>

> > --- El mar, 11/1/11, Miss Equanimity <tobepresentnow@> escribió:

>

> >

>

> > De: Miss Equanimity <tobepresentnow@>

>

> > Asunto: Why do we thank our mind?

>

> > Para: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

>

> > Fecha: martes, 11 de enero, 2011 13:10

>

> >

>

> >

>

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> > I was just wondering about this as I was reading The Happiness Trap. I think I kind of understand it, but on the other hand it seems " wrong " . I imagine we thank our mind because its a way of not arguing or being in conflict with it, and also by saying thank you we show we are aware of it. However if I have an intrusive thought of the type " I am going to fall down the stairs and badly hurt myself " it seems strange to say " thank you mind " . Why? I suppose Its because i use the word thank you as a way of motivating children, if I I am positive and say thank you for their behaviour they will probably repeat it. I suppose it doesn't really work that way with thoughts (I hope not anyway). I know its not about getting rid of ect but I certainly don't want to motivate nasty thoughts to be more recurrent if you know what I mean. 

>

> > I am

>

> > thinking maybe I could say as an alternative " I hear you " . That way I acknowledge the thought without " patting in on the back " .

>

> > As i said at the beginning I can get where the thanking bit comes from, but I suppose I would like to know some more. Take care all XXX

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I recalled that when I started using defusion, I would use it for all the thoughts, feelings, etc. that I encountered during my mindfulness exercise. For instance, I would label every single one of them out loud. Of course, all this was unnecessary.It was when I read the more technical definition of fusion that made it more easier for me. It was "...the tendency to allow thought to dominate other sources of behavioral regulation because of the failure to pay attention to the process of relating over and above the products of relating." Ok that was a mouthful! But basically I realized it involved letting your thoughts dominate your behavior and not seeing a thought for what it was.Instantly, I knew when I fuse with a thought and when I didn't. For example,

during my daily walks, I have a habit of daydreaming of myself being the center of positive attention. I fuse with that thought so much, that the external world vanishes. Also, my lips would move as if I'm talking to someone even though no sound comes out.Another example is when I avoid or delay heading to my local library. I would have these vague and quick thoughts that someone will look and approach me. They would try to start a conversation but that I would be so anxious, I would look the other way. Of course, this would lead me to avoid going there at all. I was afraid I would reveal something embarrassing.I guess if I can simplify it for you, then it would be the following:Your thoughts are dominating your behavior.You aren't seeing the thought for what it is: a thought.Here's another big hint: if you're wondering if a thought should be defused,

it most likely shouldn't. C.

I agree, we have to decide whether the thought is helpful or not. But maybe it makes defusion more effective if we keep that judgement out of the defusion process itself. Deciding whether a thought is useful is more of a values/actions process I think.

bb

>

> >

>

> > PS:

>

> > Reflecting on what is said in The Happiness Trap about thoughts being helpful or not, maybe I could even say: "I hear you, but that is not a helpful thought at the moment" (don't think "buts" are supposed to be a good idea) maybe: "I hear you and that is not a helpful thought at the moment" ( a bit long winded ha!)

>

> >

>

> > --- El mar, 11/1/11, Miss Equanimity <tobepresentnow@> escribió:

>

> >

>

> > De: Miss Equanimity <tobepresentnow@>

>

> > Asunto: Why do we thank our mind?

>

> > Para: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >

>

> > Fecha: martes, 11 de enero, 2011 13:10

>

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> > I was just wondering about this as I was reading The Happiness Trap. I think I kind of understand it, but on the other hand it seems "wrong". I imagine we thank our mind because its a way of not arguing or being in conflict with it, and also by saying thank you we show we are aware of it. However if I have an intrusive thought of the type " I am going to fall down the stairs and badly hurt myself" it seems strange to say "thank you mind". Why? I suppose Its because i use the word thank you as a way of motivating children, if I I am positive and say thank you for their behaviour they will probably repeat it. I suppose it doesn't really work that way with thoughts (I hope not anyway). I know its not about getting rid of ect but I certainly don't want to motivate nasty thoughts to be more recurrent if you know what I mean.ÂÂ

>

> > I am

>

> > thinking maybe I could say as an alternative "I hear you". That way I acknowledge the thought without "patting in on the back".

>

> > As i said at the beginning I can get where the thanking bit comes from, but I suppose I would like to know some more. Take care all XXX

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

People who frequent 12-step recovery groups say that when long-winded or abrasive speakers finish their " shares, " other group members often chime in " thanks for sharing! " or " keep coming back!! " Those group members aren't just being snarky at the speaker's expense. They realize that they themselves have been 'the crazy one' at one point or another and that healing doesn't happen by censoring what people say when they're stuck in pain and confusion. So they're genuinely willing (if not always happy)  to have those members continue to show up and share their often-exasperating shares. 

I find this a good analogy for how to treat my mind when it's doing its thing: generating agonizing narratives for today out of stale old stuff from long ago. Touch the thought: acknowledge it with brief thanks, then move back into the sensory world of here-and-now. It's a much friendlier place to be, I've found. 

Jim

[Guest guest]

Nice way of looking at it, Jim!

bb

>

> People who frequent 12-step recovery groups say that when long-winded or

> abrasive speakers finish their " shares, " other group members often chime in

> " thanks for sharing! " or " keep coming back!! " Those group members aren't

> just being snarky at the speaker's expense. They realize that they

> themselves have been 'the crazy one' at one point or another and that

> healing doesn't happen by censoring what people say when they're stuck in

> pain and confusion. So they're genuinely willing (if not always happy) to

> have those members continue to show up and share their often-exasperating

> shares.

>

> I find this a good analogy for how to treat my mind when it's doing its

> thing: generating agonizing narratives for today out of stale old stuff from

> long ago. Touch the thought: acknowledge it with brief thanks, then move

> back into the sensory world of here-and-now. It's a much friendlier place to

> be, I've found.

>

> Jim

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Happens to me all the time. I defuse from thoughts that cause me obvious anxiety, but when the storm of anxiety has passed, I dip beneath the waterline to see if that thought had anything useful in it.As a rule, if it causes me stress, I find that the thought will be a lot easier to manage (and to come to a rational judgement about) if I leave it for a day (or even an hour!). I NEVER try to make decisions at the point the stressful thought hits me - I overract.Cheers, xSubject: Re: Why do we thank our mind?To: ACT_for_the_Public Date:

Tuesday, 11 January, 2011, 19:55

Hi -

Sometimes when I'm unsure whether I should defuse a thought or not, I ask myself if the thought is in service of living a valued life. If it isn't, then I choose to defuse.

g

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > PS:

> > >

> > > > Reflecting on what is said in The Happiness Trap about thoughts being

> > helpful or not, maybe I could even say: "I hear you, but that is not a

> > helpful thought at the moment" (don't think "buts" are supposed to be a good

> > idea) maybe: "I hear you and that is not a helpful thought at the moment" (

> > a bit long winded ha!)

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > --- El mar, 11/1/11, Miss Equanimity <tobepresentnow@> escribiÃÆ'³:

> >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > De: Miss Equanimity <tobepresentnow@>

> > >

> > > > Asunto: Why do we thank our mind?

> > >

> > > > Para: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public <http://mc/compose?to=ACT_for_the_Public%40yahoogroups.com>

> > >

> > >

> > > > Fecha: martes, 11 de enero, 2011 13:10

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> > > > I was just wondering about this as I was reading The Happiness Trap. I

> > think I kind of understand it, but on the other hand it seems "wrong". I

> > imagine we thank our mind because its a way of not arguing or being in

> > conflict with it, and also by saying thank you we show we are aware of it.

> > However if I have an intrusive thought of the type " I am going to

> > fall down the stairs and badly hurt myself" it seems strange to say "thank

> > you mind". Why? I suppose Its because i use the word thank you as a way of

> > motivating children, if I I am positive and say thank you for their

> > behaviour they will probably repeat it. I suppose it doesn't really work

> > that way with thoughts (I hope not anyway). I know its not about getting rid

> > of ect but I certainly don't want to motivate nasty thoughts to be more

> > recurrent if you know what I mean.ÂÂ

> >

> > >

> > > > I am

> > >

> > > > thinking maybe I could say as an alternative "I hear you". That way I

> > acknowledge the thought without "patting in on the back".

> > >

> > > > As i said at the beginning I can get where the thanking bit comes from,

> > but I suppose I would like to know some more. Take care all XXX

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

, If you don't mind, I'm going to get that message tattooed onto the back of my right hand, so I'm not tempted to forget it! Jim> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > PS:> > > > >> > > > > > Reflecting on what is said in The Happiness Trap about thoughts being> > > > helpful or not, maybe I could even say: "I hear you, but that is not a> > > > helpful thought at the moment" (don't think "buts" are supposed to be a good> > > > idea) maybe: "I hear you and that is not a helpful thought at the moment" (> > > > a bit long winded ha!)> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > --- El mar, 11/1/11, Miss Equanimity <tobepresentnow@> escribiÃÆ'Æ'³:> > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > De: Miss Equanimity <tobepresentnow@>> > > > >> > > > > > Asunto: Why do we thank our mind?> > > > >> > > > > > Para: "ACT for the Public" ACT_for_the_Public <http://mc/compose?to=ACT_for_the_Public%40yahoogroups.com>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > Fecha: martes, 11 de enero, 2011 13:10> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > ÃÆ'‚Â> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > I was just wondering about this as I was reading The Happiness Trap. I> > > > think I kind of understand it, but on the other hand it seems "wrong". I> > > > imagine we thank our mind because its a way of not arguing or being in> > > > conflict with it, and also by saying thank you we show we are aware of it.> > > > However if I have anÃÆ'‚Â intrusiveÃÆ'‚Â thought of the type " I am going to> > > > fall down the stairs and badly hurt myself" it seems strange to say "thank> > > > you mind". Why? I suppose Its because i use the word thank you as a way of> > > > motivating children, if I I am positive and say thank you for their> > > > behaviour they will probably repeat it. I suppose it doesn't really work> > > > that way with thoughts (I hope not anyway). I know its not about getting rid> > > > of ect but I certainly don't want to motivate nasty thoughts to be more> > > > recurrent if you know what I mean.ÃÆ'‚Â> > > >> > > > >> > > > > > I am> > > > >> > > > > > thinking maybe I could say as an alternative "I hear you". That way I> > > > acknowledge the thought without "patting in on the back". > > > > >> > > > > > As i said at the beginning I can get where the thanking bit comes from,> > > > but I suppose I would like to know some more. Take care all XXX> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >>

[Guest guest]

Wonderful responses here. In my experience, the notion of thanking the mind is

just a gentle reminder that who I am is not my mind. I have a mind with

thousands of thoughts and yet the essence of who I am

is much larger than all that.

And if that particular wording doesn't resonate for you, remember to hold

lightly all recommendations in books or elsewhere..go ahead and toss it out and

play with other words or phrases that work to remind you you're not your mind

when you sense you may be over-identifying with a thought.

peace,

Terry

>

>

>

> hello! it was

> nice to get back home and see all those lovely replies. 

>

>

>

> I

> like both ways at looking at it. If I see the mind as a bully as

> Helena says, I imagine the observer like Ghandi sitting down

> cross-legged listening but not engaging in the violence thrown at

> him. I have often read that bullies need to see your fusion of fear

> with the behaviour of acting so, if not they are powerless.

>

>

>

>

> If

> I look at the mind as a protector as said, I see the mind as

> some over-protective but ignorant loved one, who will try to keep you

> safe at all costs, for example an aunt. This aunt can be hysterical,

judgemental, and

> overall silly, but her high pitch voice distracts as she tries to stop you

getting to where you are going, she wants to talk it over of course and

> persuade you to go her way. This is a bit like the short story I

> wrote in my blog “My Friendâ€. I thought at the time I was writing

> about anxiety, but now I see I was writing about a tangled up fusion

> of thoughts, symptoms, emotions (sorry anxiety, you are not to blame

> really). (Gosh, look at me! Sorry anxiety? thank you mind? I feel so

> polite But yes, Lets all get on better right? Mind, anxiety,

> observing self, me.. we are all going to be living together in my

> existence so lets try and get along in my small body (or I could

> expand and make more room?) (Its great how expansion can

> make room, I wish there was a physical equivalent, my house is dead

> tiny and could do with more room, its like playing tetris with the

> furniture!).

>

>

>

>

> So

> still sort of have that conflict of ideas (or my mind does anyway ha)

> about the thanking seeming very peaceful and accepting and on the

> other hand like I am trying to rewarding bad behaviour. I think I am

> going to give a try to thanking full stop, without questioning it,

> and focusing on the first. If my mind retorts to my thank you saying

> “hey, why are you thanking me? I just said you are going to stop

> breathing and die if you go to the next town?†I will beat it up

> for being such an ungrateful **** for throwing back my thanks in my

> face (I am very much joking).

>

>

>

>

> I

> am actually all for thanking. And I am very willing to keep giving it a go.

And even though my mind sometimes whispers that thanking is bad, I am quite for

it.

>

>

>

>

> I

> am new into this, and have not encountered the problems some of you speak of

> with defusion. I am sure I will treading those stepping stones soon.

> At the moment I am noticing to what point fusion exists. I have such

> a tight tangled fusion of symptoms thoughts behaviours ect that its

> going to take some unravelling, it all happens so fast as well. But I

> feel very excited about trying to use my wise mind, and afterwards defusion. 

>

>

> Anyway,

> thanks for all your answers XXX

>