RE: Re: My Philosophy

[Guest guest]

Hi S

You cannot control other people but only yourself so

that if the other group members through their behavior were responsible for

ruining the group that is their responsibility not yours. so you are not to

blame. I was wondering if there were any good members left that you could start

a new group with? That is just a thought. Peace and best wishes from Francis

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: soozy128@...Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:31:13 +0000Subject: Re: My Philosophy

>

> > One of my values is valuing others and the problem arises not

> > so much as a philosophical debate for me but in very difficult

> > decisions that have to be made when associating with others.

> >

> > If I contemplate sticking up for my values and know this may

> > make me unpopular my very next thought seems to be people will

> > think me arrogant/self-centred/blind to their needs and then

> > the next one is how do I know I am not? Maybe I am being

> > subjective, failing to be empathic and see things from others'

> > points of view and from there I think Dang there goes another

> > value! I am not managing to act "in the service of"...honesty,

> > sincerity, empathy.

>

> Hi Soozy,

>

> I had a couple of thoughts on your post. As usual I may be way off

> course ... but since I am working on this values stuff myself, I

> thought I would share these & maybe that way learn from what you

> have to say back.

>

> Thought 1:

>

> You say in your post that one of your values is valuing others. I

> wonder how this value is actually expressed? In other words, does

> this valuing of others depend on your attitudes and thoughts, or is

> it something you can do with (pardon the ACT jargon) your hands and

> feet?

>

> If it's something you do in your head entirely, then it seems to me

> that might be problematic - at least if my own experience is

> typical. I constantly have thoughts about being selfish, not

> thinking enough of others, etc. Plus often I will in fact do

> something selfish or what have you, only to regret it afterwards.

> So if my value somehow involves seeing myself as not having such

> thoughts and as never failing to be perfectly empathic etc. ...

> good luck to me!

>

> Whereas if valuing others is something I can manifest by my

> actions, then the chatter in my head becomes less important.

> Depending on the relationship, I might commit to listening when

> someone I care about speaks, rather than interrupting them as I am

> prone to do; I might buy flowers or some other small gift to

> brighten their day; I might help them with an onerous task that I

> myself dislike and would prefer not to do; etc. The chatter in my

> head can continue, and I can practice valuing others regardless.

Don't worry about being off-course as if you are or if I think you are I will say so and how could anypone object to the way you have expressed your ideas - that comes across as very constructive so thanks!

On thought 1;

I have to say frist of all that I have OCD and many mental compulsions so to suggest there isn't a lot about values going on in my head would be a downright lie:-) However,......that doesn't mean that this is just about thinking about values. Living the values has come to an abrupt end and I feel very upset. An abrupt end because after being a very active member of a group for some time but a quietly active person on the whole (doing work behind the scenes) a number of worrying things happened in the group because of lack of leadership and structure. I did my best to get a discussion going but got nowhere - I would give more details but worry about who may be reading!I felt very encouraged by Bill's suggestion that people are obliged to speak up if a group gets stuck but at my group it was the other way round - pressure to turn a blind eye and do nothing.

So I left and feel a big sense of failure as a result even though many tell me I did the right thing. The uncertainty - could I have done more to turn this situation round - still bothers me. So as a result, yes, there is a lot of mental stuff going on.

>

> Thought 2:

>

> This is a tough one - I hope I don't word it badly. Here goes:

>

> You say you worry that if you follow certain values of yours,

> people will see you as arrogant, self-centered, blind to their

> needs, etc. Do you think these thoughts are expressing a need for

> the approval of others? And if so what happens in your experience

> if you put these thoughts in charge?

No, you've worded it very well:-) Yes, I will own up to feeling hurt and yes I probably do have too great a need for approval from others. I actually wrote as much to my therapist last week. My self-esteem is low as a result of what happened.

But can anyone's self-esteem come entirely from within without any positive feedback from others?

What happens if I put these thoughts in charge? A very disturbing question!

I guess that if I'm honest I either bottle up my feelings and pretend everything is OK and that no one can hurt me if they don't see the effect they have on me (The sticks and stones thought used as a shield!!) or I opt out and leave the situation behind. This time I left, not a knee-jerk reaction but after taking advice from people I respect and only after one final effort to get change, or even discussion of the problems.

>

> Please know that I don't ask this to imply that you are doing

> something wrong. We beat ourselves up enough, and I am not out to

> give you something else to beat yourself up about. I only ask

> because what you say reminds me that one of my own mega-barriers to

> valuing is worrying about what other people will think of me.

>

> I have so internalized this struggle, in fact, that I don't even

> cast it in terms of "what other people will think of me," but

> rather in terms of "what sort of person will this mean that I am"

> if I fail, if I tick people off, etc. And I find that buying into

> this struggle (which I still do, often) has a catastrophic effect

> on my ability to take action.

>

> I'd be curious to hear what you think about any or all of this -

Thanks, that was helpful! Yes, my depression and OCD both follow the same theme: " (What if)I am a bad insincere person" and I've worked hard at not buying into that.The last few months have presented some really challenging situations for me though that have very much destabilised me. The trouble is that things have escalated more because for once I took action and followed through. I have two ways of looking at what happened: 1) I made a decision that had to be made, took action and now need to accept it didn't work out for whatever reason, people being people, bad luck, bad timing or whatever. Then the doubt sets in and 2) I wonder whether I dug myself into a hole by not just going along with everyone else and turning a blind eye to problems.

Have I lost more than I gained by leaving? I care about most of these people.

I don't want to write to explicitly as I don't know who is reading but I am reminded of my son aged about 9 opting out of a group of friends as they were getting into trouble, throwing missiles at passing trains etc.Yet in other ways they were good friends. Should he have stopped around and tried to influence them more? Moral dilemma!

Thanks again,

S.