Re: Buyer Beware - Tune in to Dr. Vliet's Show March 31, 2008

April 2, 2008

Did anyone hear this? Anything interesting?

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> > Reminder / Update March 14, 2008

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> > Hormone Scams and Myths

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> > Monday night, March 31st, Dr. Vliet will talk about Buyer

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April 2, 2008

Summary of points 3/31/08:

Natural hormones: Some not necessarily natural. Lot of people putting out

bad information.

" Estrogen dominance. " By definition, women ARE estrogen dominance.

Ridiculous concept. The idea that ED is " bad " came from a male physician

who is now dead, but his bad information lives on. Medically unsound. P

can make women worse. Vliet treated hundreds of women who have been treated

with progesterone creams and told they have ED and that is a horrrible, evil

condition. Women got fatter, moodier, bad hair, bad skin. Many felt much

worse than when they started. Many creams are in violation of FDA. Amount

that's being used is too large. Wild yam creams are not bioidentical.

Cannot be converted by body into a woman's hormones.

What is cream to do? If for uterine protection, reputable studies have

shown that OTC creams (and some compounded creams) are not reliable in

protecting uterine lining. Studies from several different countries have

shown it. Vliet's patients have had to have D & C to correct. For P to

prevent hyperplasia, need right dose, right type, in a reliable form to do

the job.

For pre-menopausal, creams are advertised to treat fibroids, low libido,

bleeding, PMS, depression, headaches, etc. False claims. P increases blood

glucose. Savvy women understand that those symptoms are during 2nd half of

cycle - when body is making progesterone. Patients with those problems have

declining estrogen per Vliet's actual measurements. Research confirms it.

Look up Prof Studd in Pubmed. P creams are causing more problems than

women started with. Woman taking 50 mg/day is way more than the 20 mg of

Prochieve that would be used for only 12 days (40 mg/day every other day).

Vliet recommends Prometrium or Prochieve. If can't tolerate, can use

Mirena. Few side affects. Vliet uses two other progestins in lower dose

(Micronor or Agensin) that aren't as bad side effects as Provera.

Other scams - tri-est and bi-est (natural hormones): Have been recent

subject of FDA warnings because estriol is not approved for use in US. Many

studies - estriol not affective for preserving bone, vascular benefits,

cognitive function. tri-est has estrone - the estrogen of body fat.

Estradiol is what is lost at meno. After meno, estrone is rising and

estradiol is falling - causes increasing risk of BC, bone loss, heart

disease. tri and bi contain very little estradiol. Estradiol improves

insulin sensitivity, maintaining bone, vaginal lubrication. Important

hormone for women. Sad that the estrogen that has benefitted women for so

long is suddenly the " bad hormone. "

Another area of hormone scams. Adrenal fatigue is a marketing diagnosis,

not a medical diagnosis. Helps people sell adrenal glandular products.

Saliva cortisol tests are not reliable. Told the glandulars are going to

boost adrenal. The correct medical diagnosis is true adrenal deficiency or

's. Needs proper medical treatment. Do not need the hype of saliva

tests.

Adrenal get properly tested. Need measures of adrenal corticol,

glutcortacoid, androgens. No matter what the marketing says, you don't know

the source (pig or cow) nor the country of origin. Mentions China.

Mentions mad cow disease. Concern about prion contamination. Countries

have banned using ground up animal glands for animal feed. Why would anyone

take ground up animal glands from unknown origin?

Perimeno - have fluctuations. If using low dose P (Ovcon or Femcon) pill,

may be getting progestin + your own progesterone because pill may not be

shutting down ovary. Might want to try one that has different form of

progestin (Yasmin). Steady dose will help erratic cycles of perimeno. May

try Nuvaring with lower doses of E and P. Consider different doses of

patches or gels at different times of cycle and try to even out

fluctuations. Every other month, cycle with acceptable progesterone.

Patches are very low dose estradiol, lower than BCP. Compounded gels do not

sustain their delivery well. Divygel and Estrogel are more sustained.

Saliva testing scam: Problems with Internet and pharmacy kits. Women are

told getting custom-compounded formula. Most formulas are coming out of

cookbooks pharmacists have. Plastic tubes degrade hormones. Many published

studies of OTC kids that they are not reliable. Fertility docs gave up that

technology years ago. Use reliable serum measures.

You can hear all her broadcasts at www.herplace.com

Val

This post is copyrighted and may not be used in any form in any other

setting without the written permission of Valarie

-----Original Message-----

From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]

On Behalf Of

Did anyone hear this? Anything interesting?

April 2, 2008

wow. Thank you for summerizing Val.

The only thing (other than the anti-adrenal fatigue mantra) that

raises my eyebrow is " Use reliable serum measures. "

For anyone who's used and failed on the Wiley Protocol, hasn't that

been confirmed that serum testing while (or had been) using P in a

cream isn't very reliable? Has anyone had saliva tests either on the

WP or shortly after stopping the WP that have shown a too high level

of P, along with P dominence symptoms? yet the serum tests show no or

too low P? I agree that w/o any hormone intervention, serum levels

are probably the way to go...however in cases where women are

completely messed up from a bad BHRT intervention, i would think

you'd want to check serum and saliva for overall picture of what's

happening with women who have had poor results with any form of BHRT,

be it WP or otherwise. Anyone have thoughts on that?

I don't know about the adrenal fatigue being a marketing diagnosis.

I've lived severe insomnia for 2 years. and I'm now JUST starting to

get better by ONLY doing adrenal intervention and no sex hormones,

after going at it from a sex hormone treatment. so go figure...

Why come at a person's overall low hormone picture from sex hormone

levels only? Especially if showing some issues adrenal and thyroid

hormones. In my mind, if i raise my cortisol, hopefully the adrenal

glands won't demand so much of the pregnenalone, leaving more of it

to be converted to the 3rd pathyway of adrenal steroid conversion

(Androgen Pathway: DHEA to T to E pathway). I don't kid myself. I'll

be 40 in december. Its likely i'll need E, T or DHEA or all of them

(especially since i'm low in all) regardless of bringing up my

cortisol, but why not give it a chance to let these

levels " normalize " ? meaning come to a level where they should be for

my age when all else is equal/normal...such as when cortisol levels

are " normal " ? (normal being an " opperative " word here...) This is how

I've been interpreting most of the opinions on this board. Am I off

base from that?

I wonder if Vliet uses iodine with her patients for thyroid support?

>

> Summary of points 3/31/08:

>

> Natural hormones: Some not necessarily natural. Lot of people

putting out

> bad information.

>

> " Estrogen dominance. " By definition, women ARE estrogen dominance.

> Ridiculous concept. The idea that ED is " bad " came from a male

physician

> who is now dead, but his bad information lives on. Medically

unsound. P

> can make women worse. Vliet treated hundreds of women who have

been treated

> with progesterone creams and told they have ED and that is a

horrrible, evil

> condition. Women got fatter, moodier, bad hair, bad skin. Many

felt much

> worse than when they started. Many creams are in violation of

FDA. Amount

> that's being used is too large. Wild yam creams are not

bioidentical.

> Cannot be converted by body into a woman's hormones.

>

> What is cream to do? If for uterine protection, reputable studies

have

> shown that OTC creams (and some compounded creams) are not reliable

in

> protecting uterine lining. Studies from several different

countries have

> shown it. Vliet's patients have had to have D & C to correct. For

P to

> prevent hyperplasia, need right dose, right type, in a reliable

form to do

> the job.

>

> For pre-menopausal, creams are advertised to treat fibroids, low

libido,

> bleeding, PMS, depression, headaches, etc. False claims. P

increases blood

> glucose. Savvy women understand that those symptoms are during 2nd

half of

> cycle - when body is making progesterone. Patients with those

problems have

> declining estrogen per Vliet's actual measurements. Research

confirms it.

> Look up Prof Studd in Pubmed. P creams are causing more

problems than

> women started with. Woman taking 50 mg/day is way more than the 20

mg of

> Prochieve that would be used for only 12 days (40 mg/day every

other day).

>

> Vliet recommends Prometrium or Prochieve. If can't tolerate, can

use

> Mirena. Few side affects. Vliet uses two other progestins in

lower dose

> (Micronor or Agensin) that aren't as bad side effects as Provera.

>

> Other scams - tri-est and bi-est (natural hormones): Have been

recent

> subject of FDA warnings because estriol is not approved for use in

US. Many

> studies - estriol not affective for preserving bone, vascular

benefits,

> cognitive function. tri-est has estrone - the estrogen of body fat.

> Estradiol is what is lost at meno. After meno, estrone is rising

and

> estradiol is falling - causes increasing risk of BC, bone loss,

heart

> disease. tri and bi contain very little estradiol. Estradiol

improves

> insulin sensitivity, maintaining bone, vaginal lubrication.

Important

> hormone for women. Sad that the estrogen that has benefitted women

for so

> long is suddenly the " bad hormone. "

>

> Another area of hormone scams. Adrenal fatigue is a marketing

diagnosis,

> not a medical diagnosis. Helps people sell adrenal glandular

products.

> Saliva cortisol tests are not reliable. Told the glandulars are

going to

> boost adrenal. The correct medical diagnosis is true adrenal

deficiency or

> 's. Needs proper medical treatment. Do not need the hype

of saliva

> tests.

>

> Adrenal get properly tested. Need measures of adrenal corticol,

> glutcortacoid, androgens. No matter what the marketing says, you

don't know

> the source (pig or cow) nor the country of origin. Mentions China.

> Mentions mad cow disease. Concern about prion contamination.

Countries

> have banned using ground up animal glands for animal feed. Why

would anyone

> take ground up animal glands from unknown origin?

>

> Perimeno - have fluctuations. If using low dose P (Ovcon or

Femcon) pill,

> may be getting progestin + your own progesterone because pill may

not be

> shutting down ovary. Might want to try one that has different form

of

> progestin (Yasmin). Steady dose will help erratic cycles of

perimeno. May

> try Nuvaring with lower doses of E and P. Consider different doses

of

> patches or gels at different times of cycle and try to even out

> fluctuations. Every other month, cycle with acceptable

progesterone.

> Patches are very low dose estradiol, lower than BCP. Compounded

gels do not

> sustain their delivery well. Divygel and Estrogel are more

sustained.

>

> Saliva testing scam: Problems with Internet and pharmacy kits.

Women are

> told getting custom-compounded formula. Most formulas are coming

out of

> cookbooks pharmacists have. Plastic tubes degrade hormones. Many

published

> studies of OTC kids that they are not reliable. Fertility docs

gave up that

> technology years ago. Use reliable serum measures.

>

> You can hear all her broadcasts at www.herplace.com

>

> Val

>

> This post is copyrighted and may not be used in any form in any

other

> setting without the written permission of Valarie

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: rhythmicliving

[mailto:rhythmicliving ]

> On Behalf Of

>

> Did anyone hear this? Anything interesting?

>

April 2, 2008

What I wrote is just what Vliet talked about. I suspect P cream does not

show up in the serum and is unduly excreted in the saliva. If you remember,

WP used very high doses of P cream. There are studies that show it often

does not protect the uterus. Therefore, one would expect it not to show up

in serum.

I don't have much opinion on the adrenal fatigue stuff except eating the

ground up bits of animals from unknown locations does rub me the wrong way.

I have confidence in Armour and Nature Throid, but I don't think I'd ever

take ground up animal parts in any other preparation, especially if I didn't

know the origin, factory practices, etc. I would take Cortef or pred, if

indicated, but I fear those are being sorely over-used.

I doubt that Vliet uses iodine. There is a lot of research on excess iodine

and hypothyroidism. Not much about iodine and what is now being claimed. I

anxiously await more research. I fear that excess use of iodine may be the

current Lee progesterone craze. I hope Dr. Vliet addresses that at

some point. I've had friends get very hyper feeling on iodine. I wouldn't

dare use it if it involves salt flushing, etc. I have Conn's syndrome and

limit sodium to about 800 mg/day.

At 40, you are likely having E bounce all over the place. That is probably

a big reason for your insomnia, assuming you don't have some other

underlying problem. I am not well-studied enough to comment on the

pathways. In my mind, if you need estrogen, use estrogen; and if you need

thyroid, use thyroid. As long as you are cycling, I don't see any reason to

use P. I have one friend who uses it only when she doesn't detect

ovulation. However, if what you're doing works for you, then more power to

you.

Vliet is a fairly conventional doctor though she is well researched, well

experienced and does advocate, for the most part, using bio-identical

hormones. I think it is good, sometimes, to break away from the Internet's

popular " wisdom " and listen to experienced, well-researched, and

well-experienced people.

I got caught up in the Lee P cream craze and I think it did serious

damage. I don't know yet if I have an adrenal tumor or idiopathic

hyperplasia, but if it is hyperplasia, I lay it right at Lee's feet. I

often wonder what the Wiley Protocol is doing to women's adrenal health.

This message is copyrighted and may not be reproduced in whole or in part

without the written permission of Valarie . Pat the Pervert, that

means you!

Val

-----Original Message-----

From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]

On Behalf Of wild.dingo