Re: advertising and herbalists

May 4, 2011

Try running that past the ASA!

Lorraine Hodgkinson MNIMH MRCHM

HERBS AND HELPERS

6, Butts Fold, Cockermouth,

Cumbria, CA13 9HY. UK.

Tel: +44 (0) 1900 826392

Mobile: 07761 489838 (O2)

www.herbalmedicineuk.com

> I am a healthcare professional, with a government stated intention to

> regulate me.

>

> Gosh, this is like Spartacus!

>

> Sally Owen

>

> > I thought I was a healthcare professional....

> >

> > Maggie

> >

> >>> The following, really interesting article on Promotion of herbal medicine

> >> and the law in the US, appeared on the [herb] list today:

> >> http://www.rmhiherbal.org/a/f.ahr3.rights.html

> >>> Although villification of herbalists is even more draconian in the States,

> >> this article contains some useful wording and ideas for us.

> >>>

May 4, 2011

Funny that the ASA disagrees with you then.

Lorraine

Lorraine Hodgkinson MNIMH MRCHM

HERBS AND HELPERS

6, Butts Fold, Cockermouth,

Cumbria, CA13 9HY. UK.

Tel: +44 (0) 1900 826392

Mobile: 07761 489838 (O2)

www.herbalmedicineuk.com

> Sally, Maggie

>

> You are indeed healthcare professionals. No need for Spartacus, or anyone else

to be crucified.

>

> What everyone needs to do is look at what the code actually says - pasted

below.

>

> Especially re diagnosis - it is mostly about self-diagnosis and not referring

when necessary. Knowing when to refer is a basic competence in any profession -

same would be true for GPs, nurses, osteopaths and so on. Rule 12.2

>

> For healthcare professional read second para of Rule 12.2

> That is the very definition of a member of a professional association such as

NIMH.

> Qualification recognised by accreditation, indemnity insurance, CPD and

reviews, complaints and disciplinary procedures.

>

> Hopefully that clears that up.

>

> http://www.cap.org.uk/The-Codes/CAP-Code/CAP-Code-pdf-versions.aspx

>

> You need Section 12 which looks at medicines, health etc.

>

> 12.2 Marketers must not discourage essential treatment for conditions for

which medical

> supervision should be sought. For example, they must not offer specific advice

on,

> diagnosis of or treatment for such conditions unless that advice, diagnosis or

treatment is

> conducted under the supervision of a suitably qualified health professional.

Accurate and

> responsible general information about such conditions may, however, be

offered. (See

> rule 12.11.)

>

> Health professionals will be deemed suitably qualified only if they can

provide suitable

> credentials; for example, evidence of: relevant professional expertise or

qualifications;

> systems for regular review of members' skills and competencies and suitable

professional

> indemnity insurance covering all services provided; accreditation by a

professional or

> regulatory body that has systems for dealing with complaints and taking

disciplinary

> action and has registration based on minimum standards for training and

qualifications.

>

May 4, 2011

Hi Lorraine

hope you're enjoying the spring.

you're sure you're not mistaking the Nightingale Collaboration's

interpretation with that of the ASA?

best wishes

Sally Owen

Sally

> Funny that the ASA disagrees with you then.

>

> Lorraine

>

> Lorraine Hodgkinson MNIMH MRCHM

> HERBS AND HELPERS

> 6, Butts Fold, Cockermouth,

> Cumbria, CA13 9HY. UK.

> Tel: +44 (0) 1900 826392

> Mobile: 07761 489838 (O2)

> www.herbalmedicineuk.com

>

> On 4 May 2011, at 14:55, " " wrote:

>

>> Sally, Maggie

>>

>> You are indeed healthcare professionals. No need for Spartacus, or anyone

else to be crucified.

>>

>> What everyone needs to do is look at what the code actually says - pasted

below.

>>

>> Especially re diagnosis - it is mostly about self-diagnosis and not referring

when necessary. Knowing when to refer is a basic competence in any profession -

same would be true for GPs, nurses, osteopaths and so on. Rule 12.2

>>

>> For healthcare professional read second para of Rule 12.2

>> That is the very definition of a member of a professional association such as

NIMH.

>> Qualification recognised by accreditation, indemnity insurance, CPD and

reviews, complaints and disciplinary procedures.

>>

>> Hopefully that clears that up.

>>

>> http://www.cap.org.uk/The-Codes/CAP-Code/CAP-Code-pdf-versions.aspx

>>

>> You need Section 12 which looks at medicines, health etc.

>>

>> 12.2 Marketers must not discourage essential treatment for conditions for

which medical

>> supervision should be sought. For example, they must not offer specific

advice on,

>> diagnosis of or treatment for such conditions unless that advice, diagnosis

or treatment is

>> conducted under the supervision of a suitably qualified health professional.

Accurate and

>> responsible general information about such conditions may, however, be

offered. (See

>> rule 12.11.)

>>

>> Health professionals will be deemed suitably qualified only if they can

provide suitable

>> credentials; for example, evidence of: relevant professional expertise or

qualifications;

>> systems for regular review of members' skills and competencies and suitable

professional

>> indemnity insurance covering all services provided; accreditation by a

professional or

>> regulatory body that has systems for dealing with complaints and taking

disciplinary

>> action and has registration based on minimum standards for training and

qualifications.

>>

>

May 4, 2011

I tried for six weeks to get a clear position on the wording of the NIMH

leaflet emailing weekly. My specific question on the use of the word

diagnosis was never answered. I therefore had to contact the ASA direct on

it. The first person I spoke to told me that! I don't know what yo mean

about Nightingales ... I just needed a direct definitive answer to my

question, none was given, funnily immediately after I'd contacted the ASA I

got a more complete answer from the NIMH! Also I noticed that an answer on

the wording was given the same day on this list.

Seems that they are happy to string members along with none answers for

weeks on end.

Lorraine

>

> Hi Lorraine

>

> hope you're enjoying the spring.

>

> you're sure you're not mistaking the Nightingale Collaboration's

> interpretation with that of the ASA?

>

> best wishes

>

> Sally Owen

>

> Sally

> > Funny that the ASA disagrees with you then.

> >

> > Lorraine

> >

> > Lorraine Hodgkinson MNIMH MRCHM

> > HERBS AND HELPERS

> > 6, Butts Fold, Cockermouth,

> > Cumbria, CA13 9HY. UK.

> > Tel: +44 (0) 1900 826392

> > Mobile: 07761 489838 (O2)

> > www.herbalmedicineuk.com

> >

> >> Sally, Maggie

> >>

> >> You are indeed healthcare professionals. No need for Spartacus, or

> anyone else to be crucified.

> >>

> >> What everyone needs to do is look at what the code actually says -

> pasted below.

> >>

> >> Especially re diagnosis - it is mostly about self-diagnosis and not

> referring when necessary. Knowing when to refer is a basic competence in any

> profession - same would be true for GPs, nurses, osteopaths and so on. Rule

> 12.2

> >>

> >> For healthcare professional read second para of Rule 12.2

> >> That is the very definition of a member of a professional association

> such as NIMH.

> >> Qualification recognised by accreditation, indemnity insurance, CPD and

> reviews, complaints and disciplinary procedures.

> >>

> >> Hopefully that clears that up.

> >>

> >> http://www.cap.org.uk/The-Codes/CAP-Code/CAP-Code-pdf-versions.aspx

> >>

> >> You need Section 12 which looks at medicines, health etc.

> >>

> >> 12.2 Marketers must not discourage essential treatment for conditions

> for which medical

> >> supervision should be sought. For example, they must not offer specific

> advice on,

> >> diagnosis of or treatment for such conditions unless that advice,

> diagnosis or treatment is

> >> conducted under the supervision of a suitably qualified health

> professional. Accurate and

> >> responsible general information about such conditions may, however, be

> offered. (See

> >> rule 12.11.)

> >>

> >> Health professionals will be deemed suitably qualified only if they can

> provide suitable

> >> credentials; for example, evidence of: relevant professional expertise

> or qualifications;

> >> systems for regular review of members' skills and competencies and

> suitable professional

> >> indemnity insurance covering all services provided; accreditation by a

> professional or

> >> regulatory body that has systems for dealing with complaints and taking

> disciplinary

> >> action and has registration based on minimum standards for training and

> qualifications.

> >>

> >

May 4, 2011

Sorry , but we are not, from the ASA point of view. I checked it recently

with Copy advice team (the people who help you interpret the CAP code) and I

used the same criteria as you -but the answer was that the ASA only recognizes

the professions regulated by stature and members of Health Professions

Council.Â

Subject: Re: advertising and herbalists

To: ukherbal-list

Date: Wednesday, 4 May, 2011, 14:55

Â

Sally, Maggie

You are indeed healthcare professionals. No need for Spartacus, or anyone else

to be crucified.

What everyone needs to do is look at what the code actually says - pasted below.

Especially re diagnosis - it is mostly about self-diagnosis and not referring

when necessary. Knowing when to refer is a basic competence in any profession -

same would be true for GPs, nurses, osteopaths and so on. Rule 12.2

For healthcare professional read second para of Rule 12.2

That is the very definition of a member of a professional association such as

NIMH.

Qualification recognised by accreditation, indemnity insurance, CPD and reviews,

complaints and disciplinary procedures.

Hopefully that clears that up.

http://www.cap.org.uk/The-Codes/CAP-Code/CAP-Code-pdf-versions.aspx

You need Section 12 which looks at medicines, health etc.

12.2 Marketers must not discourage essential treatment for conditions for which

medical

supervision should be sought. For example, they must not offer specific advice

on,

diagnosis of or treatment for such conditions unless that advice, diagnosis or

treatment is

conducted under the supervision of a suitably qualified health professional.

Accurate and

responsible general information about such conditions may, however, be offered.

(See

rule 12.11.)

Health professionals will be deemed suitably qualified only if they can provide

suitable

credentials; for example, evidence of: relevant professional expertise or

qualifications;

systems for regular review of members' skills and competencies and suitable

professional

indemnity insurance covering all services provided; accreditation by a

professional or

regulatory body that has systems for dealing with complaints and taking

disciplinary

action and has registration based on minimum standards for training and

qualifications.

May 4, 2011

Dear ,the whole CAP/ASA system is self-regulatory, so it is not law as such.

But if you do not follow the rules you can be prosecuted under the Consumer

Protection Law (although normally you would be just asked to amend the

advertising). The rules for advertising for health related professions

(including herbalists) are quite specific and explicitly forbid making medicinal

claims, explicit or implicit. If in doubt anybody can have their leaflet checked

by the Copy advice team member and you can argue your case.Also the CAP code is

updated quite regularly so the rules may have changed since the School of Phyt

times. Of course, once we are regulated we will be able to say all the things we

actually do and treat.Best wishes

>

> > > The following, really interesting article on Promotion of herbal

> medicine

>

> > and the law in the US, appeared on the [herb] list today:

>

> > http://www.rmhiherbal.org/a/f.ahr3.rights.html

>

> > >

>

> > > Although villification of herbalists is even more draconian in the

> States,

>

> > this article contains some useful wording and ideas for us.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

May 5, 2011

Well if that is the case, I suggest that they are wrong and this could be

demonstrated on the grounds of probability (if not absolute proof) in a

Court in both Statute and Case (Common) law. You will probably find that

they would accept grudging correction - most government agencies will accept

correction if a case can be shown that they would be unlikely to win in a

Court. Grudging, because it's difficult for them to admit publicly that they

are ever wrong but, on the other hand, they have to move in case it ever did

get into a situation when they lose a battle.

But these things take time or money or both and are just not worth it unless

there is a practical reason. We will be SR'd by then probably.

I doubt they really believe it themselves anyway, otherwise ASA would have

had a go at herbalists in the past, which i don't think they have.

It will probably be a form of words, like most regulatory stuff, the best

compromise they could come with, to cover most bases and always subject to

some undreamt of exception.

>

> Sorry , but we are not, from the ASA point of view. I checked it

> recently with Copy advice team (the people who help you interpret the CAP

> code) and I used the same criteria as you -but the answer was that the ASA

> only recognizes the professions regulated by stature and members of Health

> Professions Council.

>

> Subject: Re: advertising and herbalists

>

> To: ukherbal-list

> Date: Wednesday, 4 May, 2011, 14:55

>

> Sally, Maggie

>

> You are indeed healthcare professionals. No need for Spartacus, or anyone

> else to be crucified.

>

> What everyone needs to do is look at what the code actually says - pasted

> below.

>

> Especially re diagnosis - it is mostly about self-diagnosis and not

> referring when necessary. Knowing when to refer is a basic competence in any

> profession - same would be true for GPs, nurses, osteopaths and so on. Rule

> 12.2

>

> For healthcare professional read second para of Rule 12.2

>

> That is the very definition of a member of a professional association such

> as NIMH.

>

> Qualification recognised by accreditation, indemnity insurance, CPD and

> reviews, complaints and disciplinary procedures.

>

> Hopefully that clears that up.

>

> http://www.cap.org.uk/The-Codes/CAP-Code/CAP-Code-pdf-versions.aspx

>

> You need Section 12 which looks at medicines, health etc.

>

> 12.2 Marketers must not discourage essential treatment for conditions for

> which medical

>

> supervision should be sought. For example, they must not offer specific

> advice on,

>

> diagnosis of or treatment for such conditions unless that advice, diagnosis

> or treatment is

>

> conducted under the supervision of a suitably qualified health

> professional. Accurate and

>

> responsible general information about such conditions may, however, be

> offered. (See

>

> rule 12.11.)

>

> Health professionals will be deemed suitably qualified only if they can

> provide suitable

>

> credentials; for example, evidence of: relevant professional expertise or

> qualifications;

>

> systems for regular review of members' skills and competencies and suitable

> professional

>

> indemnity insurance covering all services provided; accreditation by a

> professional or

>

> regulatory body that has systems for dealing with complaints and taking

> disciplinary

>

> action and has registration based on minimum standards for training and

> qualifications.

>

May 5, 2011

Hi

If you have been told that, then I would argue that you have been given

inaccurate information/advice.

As says that is wrong - certainly wrong because that is not what they

publish.

What the guidance on the ASA website actually says is:

" Marketers should not discourage essential treatment. They should not offer

specific advice on, diagnosis of or treatment for serious or prolonged

conditions unless it is conducted under the supervision of a doctor or other

suitably qualified health professional (e.g. one subject to regulation by a

statutory or recognised medical or health profession body). Accurate and

responsible general information about such conditions may, however, be offered. "

There is no mention of the HPC.

It does say 'recognised health profession' but that is not the same as the HPC

(obviously).

So if you have been given different advice then that is not good - not following

their own codes and guidance, in my opinion. Surely, the body responsible for

ensuring advertising meets standards, must ensure it operates within its own

published material. If they mean HPC, then they have to say HPC.

Also answer depends on the question one may put to them - there are ways to

phrase questions - which of course you know (sorry if that sounds a bit

patronising - blame email). If you simply ask them to review your copy, then

they comment if they see anything they might consider potentially problematic.

But if you ask them - can I call myself a healthcare professional, then they are

likely to reply with - e.g. only doctors can do that.

In part it is ignorance on their part - not knowing what herbalists do etc etc.

But mainly, I think, it is because individuals (no disrespect intended) are

dealt with by basic operatives who can't make decisions, and will be ultra

careful in the advice they give.

Same thing over " diagnosis " . If you ask them, can I say I diagnose, they will

most likely say no. But in fact - do they understand what diagnosis is?

The question of whether or not they have deemed herbalists to fall under the

category of healthcare professionals or not, is something to take up with them

(but at a different level).

On what basis have they made that decision? by what authority? etc etc. If the

DoH considers herbalists healthcare pros, then who are the ASA to argue.

As said, they are not a regulator. So when did they appoint themselves

arbiter of who is and who is not a healthcare professional?

However, I would suggest that those discussions take place at a higher level

than just the copy advice team, where, no disrespect intended, but it is likely

you have been dealing with a low level operative.

If you have received some advice from them, it would be helpful to pass it on to

the councils of whatever PA (all of them) you belong to. Within NIMH we've been

asking members to contact Council if they receive any complaints as a result of

e.g Nightingale, and I know that other PAs such as the RCHM is doing the same.

If anyone receives a complaint, then the PA can support them. but meanwhile it

would be interesting to see what advice is being given to individuals - and if

it differs to anything they have given to e.g NIMH Council.

all the best

May 5, 2011

It seems you've had the same answer as me. I was told for the purposes of the

code that we are not considered healthcare professionals. Therefore this would

mean that the current NIMH leaflet is in breach.

Lorraine

Lorraine Hodgkinson MNIMH MRCHM

HERBS AND HELPERS

6, Butts Fold, Cockermouth,

Cumbria, CA13 9HY. UK.

Tel: +44 (0) 1900 826392

Mobile: 07761 489838 (O2)

www.herbalmedicineuk.com

> Sorry , but we are not, from the ASA point of view. I checked it recently

with Copy advice team (the people who help you interpret the CAP code) and I

used the same criteria as you -but the answer was that the ASA only recognizes

the professions regulated by stature and members of Health Professions Council.

>

> Subject: Re: advertising and herbalists

> To: ukherbal-list

> Date: Wednesday, 4 May, 2011, 14:55

>

> Sally, Maggie

>

> You are indeed healthcare professionals. No need for Spartacus, or anyone else

to be crucified.

>

> What everyone needs to do is look at what the code actually says - pasted

below.

>

> Especially re diagnosis - it is mostly about self-diagnosis and not referring

when necessary. Knowing when to refer is a basic competence in any profession -

same would be true for GPs, nurses, osteopaths and so on. Rule 12.2

>

> For healthcare professional read second para of Rule 12.2

>

> That is the very definition of a member of a professional association such as

NIMH.

>

> Qualification recognised by accreditation, indemnity insurance, CPD and

reviews, complaints and disciplinary procedures.

>

> Hopefully that clears that up.

>

> http://www.cap.org.uk/The-Codes/CAP-Code/CAP-Code-pdf-versions.aspx

>

> You need Section 12 which looks at medicines, health etc.

>

> 12.2 Marketers must not discourage essential treatment for conditions for

which medical

>

> supervision should be sought. For example, they must not offer specific advice

on,

>

> diagnosis of or treatment for such conditions unless that advice, diagnosis or

treatment is

>

> conducted under the supervision of a suitably qualified health professional.

Accurate and

>

> responsible general information about such conditions may, however, be

offered. (See

>

> rule 12.11.)

>

> Health professionals will be deemed suitably qualified only if they can

provide suitable

>

> credentials; for example, evidence of: relevant professional expertise or

qualifications;

>

> systems for regular review of members' skills and competencies and suitable

professional

>

> indemnity insurance covering all services provided; accreditation by a

professional or

>

> regulatory body that has systems for dealing with complaints and taking

disciplinary

>

> action and has registration based on minimum standards for training and

qualifications.

>

May 5, 2011

Hi Lorraine

my feeling on this matter is that it is currently a very grey area, and

the less we push the ASA to formulate a position that they would then

find difficult or embarassing to back down from, the better?

We are, as I'm sure you know, not in imminent danger of prosecution from

the ASA, apart from the fact that they're overworked like everyone else,

they do not prosecute, merely ask you to take down anything they

consider contravenes the code. Asking them to explain the wording puts

them on the spot, and in fluid times like this seems rather unwise.

We're all in this boat together, we need to get along and prioritise. -

there're plenty of real problems to occupy us - Like what to do if all

our patients over 55 are told to take statins and betablockers - Radio 4

this morning.

Can we collaborate on research that questions this? Statins side effects?

Graham / Henrietta, can we upload files here, or do we need to send them

to you? Is there a way to link to Zotero? (@ non anoraks, this is an

extremely useful research handling program - stores papers you have

found interesting in a similar format to itunes) (and it's free)

Sally

The Nightingale Collaboration are the self appointed quackbusters that

are apparently targeting homeopathy advertising, and are probably being

regarded as vexatious troublemakers. and if they got their way, like Dr

Oakley, we wouldn't be allowed to practice at all as they consider that

herbalism is merely an innefficient and dangerous use of herbs which

should be left to the truly skilled - pharmacists anfd doctors........

Who inform the general public that the best herb in the garden is

foxglove, but it needs proper handling by themselves, and that comfrey

poisons 2 people each year!!!!!! Yay for expertise!

So- I think this wrangling about who knows most about advertising is a

distraction from the very real threat of the pharma companies.

Anybody else notice that the enactment of THMPD was closely followed by

pressure from a research body to prescribe statins and beta blockers to

everybody over 55? everybody!!!!

I've a nasty feeling my delightful elderly patient whose visit to the

(charming) pharmacist left her with an increase in mediciation and

swelling of her previously beautiful ankles, and a fear of her herbal

prescription addressing her blood pressure - will now be unable to

obtain her proprietary crataegus and viscum tablets.

Who really cares about the patients in all this?

Sally

> I tried for six weeks to get a clear position on the wording of the NIMH

> leaflet emailing weekly. My specific question on the use of the word

> diagnosis was never answered. I therefore had to contact the ASA direct on

> it. The first person I spoke to told me that! I don't know what yo mean

> about Nightingales ... I just needed a direct definitive answer to my

> question, none was given, funnily immediately after I'd contacted the ASA I

> got a more complete answer from the NIMH! Also I noticed that an answer on

> the wording was given the same day on this list.

>

> Seems that they are happy to string members along with none answers for

> weeks on end.

>

> Lorraine

>

>>

>> Hi Lorraine

>>

>> hope you're enjoying the spring.

>>

>> you're sure you're not mistaking the Nightingale Collaboration's

>> interpretation with that of the ASA?

>>

>> best wishes

>>

>> Sally Owen

>>

>> Sally

>>> Funny that the ASA disagrees with you then.

>>>

>>> Lorraine

>>>

>>> Lorraine Hodgkinson MNIMH MRCHM

>>> HERBS AND HELPERS

>>> 6, Butts Fold, Cockermouth,

>>> Cumbria, CA13 9HY. UK.

>>> Tel: +44 (0) 1900 826392

>>> Mobile: 07761 489838 (O2)

>>> www.herbalmedicineuk.com

>>>

>>> On 4 May 2011, at 14:55, " " wrote:

>>>

>>>> Sally, Maggie

>>>>

>>>> You are indeed healthcare professionals. No need for Spartacus, or

>> anyone else to be crucified.

>>>> What everyone needs to do is look at what the code actually says -

>> pasted below.

>>>> Especially re diagnosis - it is mostly about self-diagnosis and not

>> referring when necessary. Knowing when to refer is a basic competence in any

>> profession - same would be true for GPs, nurses, osteopaths and so on. Rule

>> 12.2

>>>> For healthcare professional read second para of Rule 12.2

>>>> That is the very definition of a member of a professional association

>> such as NIMH.

>>>> Qualification recognised by accreditation, indemnity insurance, CPD and

>> reviews, complaints and disciplinary procedures.

>>>> Hopefully that clears that up.

>>>>

>>>> http://www.cap.org.uk/The-Codes/CAP-Code/CAP-Code-pdf-versions.aspx

>>>>

>>>> You need Section 12 which looks at medicines, health etc.

>>>>

>>>> 12.2 Marketers must not discourage essential treatment for conditions

>> for which medical

>>>> supervision should be sought. For example, they must not offer specific

>> advice on,

>>>> diagnosis of or treatment for such conditions unless that advice,

>> diagnosis or treatment is

>>>> conducted under the supervision of a suitably qualified health

>> professional. Accurate and

>>>> responsible general information about such conditions may, however, be

>> offered. (See

>>>> rule 12.11.)

>>>>

>>>> Health professionals will be deemed suitably qualified only if they can

>> provide suitable

>>>> credentials; for example, evidence of: relevant professional expertise

>> or qualifications;

>>>> systems for regular review of members' skills and competencies and

>> suitable professional

>>>> indemnity insurance covering all services provided; accreditation by a

>> professional or

>>>> regulatory body that has systems for dealing with complaints and taking

>> disciplinary

>>>> action and has registration based on minimum standards for training and

>> qualifications.

>>>>

>>>

May 5, 2011

Dear Lorraine

First of all, this list is a public one and it is not good for colleagues in

other professional associations to have to listen to issues with one particular

professional body here.

Having said that, your message may be misleading to others on this list and so I

feel I must redress that.

You received four replies to your questions.

You were informed that the NIMH leaflet had been scrutinised by the ASA copy

advice team and NIMH council had not been given any reason to have concern about

it. It was pointed out to you that it has been in the public domain for several

years without complaint.

When you submitted the question re diagnosis as an individual question, you

received a specific reply (your 5th reply) less than 48 hours later. That, to my

mind, is a very reasonable and swift response time, but the reply to that from

you informed us that you had already submitted the NIMH leaflet to the ASA.

As Sally says, drawing attention to matters is unwise to say the least and may

lead to a ruling against one. I'm not advocating flaunting any rules, far from

it, but keeping out of the line of fire is the best thing we can do.

Re Nightingale Collaboration - see Annette Wass's post of March 11th.

They have no 'focus of the month' for May. They've already dealt with homeopathy

and cranial sacral therapists. With recent news about THMPD, we could be next

up.

But I've seen something somewhere about the ASA being wise to them so they may

be re-grouping and changing tactics.

best wishes

May 5, 2011

Dear ,The CAP people write the code, the ASA interprets it in the context

of the actual marketing material, and actually if you look at the help notes for

the section that you quote it does mention stature - if I have time I will dig

it out for you ( " recognized " is likely to be interpreted by the ASA as belonging

to the HPC). I have pushed this point with the copy advice team, but they were

unyielding.Â Best regards

Subject: Re: advertising and herbalists

To: ukherbal-list

Date: Thursday, 5 May, 2011, 12:02