Re: Adrenal questions, adrenenalin shots

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

I do have a white noise machine, it's this one:

http://www.sleepwellbaby.com/SleepMate-980-White-Noise-Machine-p/sm-980.htm

I really like it, it's just a small fan with a constant, steady sound

that you can make louder or softer.

The adrenaline things are not from noise. They happen for no reason.

DH sleeps in another room as neither of us sleep well with the other

anymore :-(

Several months ago I did not have this problem, so something has

changed. I swear it was triggered by my 4 days on Armour which made

me very hyper. Since then, I keep having this night time problem

>

> Hi ,

>

> Thanks for the information.

>

> If you are having issues at night maybe the noses in the quiet are too

> much for you. I use a fan next to my head to drown out noise. It

> helps but I really hate having the fan next to my head and I have been

> trying to sleep with it on the floor. That worked OK wile I was on

> progesterone, but now that I am off P I need it back by my head again.

> The fan thing has helped me so much at night. Without it I would get

> adrenalin zaps every time I heard something. I would like to find a

> noise machine that is adjustable because getting my hair caught in the

> fan wile I am sleeping is not fun! I have a white noise CD that works

> but when it gets to the end there is quiet for a little wile that

> wakes me up.

>

> No I have not gotten a saliva test. Now that I am convinced that I

> have this problem I need to order one (after I pay off my Christmas

> bills!). I just do not know how many days that I would have to stay

> off the topical HC to get an accurate test. I hate the idea of having

> to take a nap every afternoon again.

>

> I think my morning and nightime cortisol levels may be good good. My

> issue is that I crash in the afternoon. I normally can sleep fine

> with the help of my 5-HTP and GABA and feel good in the morning.

>

> Kathy

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Avi,

I am fairly certain that the adrenalin zaps come when my cortisol is

low because they go away when I take a dose. I am just having trouble

figuring out what to do at night for dosing. I think I am going to

order some isocort and try that before bed. I have been having more

sleep issues since I have been experimenting with the hydrocortisone

cream so I am trying to figure out what to do wile loosing the least

amount of sleep. I also added some melatonin to my sleep mix recently

and maybe it is depressing my nighttime cortisol too much (Reiss says

do not take melatonin with adrenal fatigue because it decreases

cortisone production). I am almost tempted to go talk to my doctor if

I cannot get this figured out in the next couple of weeks. I have no

clue if he knows anything about adrenal issues and would be able to

help me though.

I have been lurking on the adrenal group. It seems that there

always wants people to test first before they start treatment and I

did things in the wrong order. I had no clue that using a small

amount of hydrocortisone cream on my shoulder would treat my symptoms

though, so it is not that I started off trying to treat my adrenal

issue, I just found something that helped. I knew I had some mild

adrenal fatigue but I was blaming my problems more on my low ferritin

level until my shoulder experiment.

Have you posted on the adrenal board and have you found to be

helpful?

Did you ever have your latest consult and how did that work out? Was

that when you got your last saliva test?

Kathy

>

> Kathy:

> So interesting...I get the same thing. Exactly like you're

> describing: zaps/spurts/twinges..I haven't figured out if it is too

> much cortisol, or too little..but your experiment with lowering that

> effect (along with the creme) is interesting. I just completed

> another ASI/saliva test with Diagnos-Techs. Awaiting results which I

> hope will come early next week.

> As far as your question on measuring levels on creme, you might try

> the old " Stop the Thyroid Madness " adrenal " spin-off " group.

> is the moderator and resident expert on adrenal issues..

> Avi

>

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

On one of those groups (NTH or NTHAdrenals) a few months ago some guy

on there was having the same problem as us at night and found the

melatonin was worsening it. I was taking melatonin at the time, so I

started paying attention, and he was right. So I don't take it anymore.

>

I also added some melatonin to my sleep mix recently

> and maybe it is depressing my nighttime cortisol too much (Reiss says

> do not take melatonin with adrenal fatigue because it decreases

> cortisone production).

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

How did your HC experiment work out? Please update us :-)

Kathy

>

>

> I decided to take 2.5mg of oral hc today so we will see if that makes

> a difference.

>

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

Actually that night was one of the worst I've had. I was beside

myself, feeling so hyper, yet exhausted, even the next day.

Awhile back I bought some liquid magnesium oil and had forgotten about

it. Someone mentioned it yesterday on another list, then I

remembered I had it, so went and rubbed it on my skin. Within about

an hour and a half I felt this calmness come over me, the heart rate

reduced, and I felt pretty good. Had a good sleep last night and feel

on top of the world today. I didn't get those adrenalin zaps.

I had been taking magnesium right along, but apparently in some people

it doesn't absorb well (I was taking Mag Glycinate and have other

forms of it that are supposed to be easily absorbed)

But using the mag oil topically was amazing. I rubbed some on DH back

and even though he's been sleeping horribly lately, he finally had a

good night's sleep.

> >

>

> >

> > I decided to take 2.5mg of oral hc today so we will see if that makes

> > a difference.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Kathy:

I have posted on the site..Val was stumped by my last cortisol

levels from ASI, done on 10/3 when I was having lots

of " racing/revving " feeling. This was on no meds/no supps to speak

of except vitamins and extra iron.

7-8AM - 34 (Elevated) 13-24nM

11-12N - NON DETECTABLE, LT 1 5-10nM

4-5P - NON DETECTABLE, LT 1 3-8

11-12M - 10 (Elevated) 1-4nM

Cortisol Burden 46 (elevated) 23-42

DHEA - 6 (3-10ng/ML)

Insulin (fasting) LOW LT 3 (3-12)

Insulin (post-prandial) 3 LOW (5-20)

Since the " revving " was much worse in the AM, I have to believe that

it was related to the elevated cortisol. Or an excess epi/norpi

release that cortisol was RESPONDING to. (e.g., stress, I produced

more of my own est/pg during that period which seems to attenuate

this response, low blood sugar issues..definitely have poor glucose

control).

Avi

[Guest guest]

Kathy:

I have posted on the site..Val was stumped by my last cortisol

levels from ASI, done on 10/3 when I was having lots

of " racing/revving " feeling. This was on no meds/no supps to speak

of except vitamins and extra iron.

7-8AM - 34 (Elevated) 13-24nM

11-12N - NON DETECTABLE, LT 1 5-10nM

4-5P - NON DETECTABLE, LT 1 3-8

11-12M - 10 (Elevated) 1-4nM

Cortisol Burden 46 (elevated) 23-42

DHEA - 6 (3-10ng/ML)

Insulin (fasting) LOW LT 3 (3-12)

Insulin (post-prandial) 3 LOW (5-20)

Since the " revving " was much worse in the AM, I have to believe that

it was related to the elevated cortisol. Or an excess epi/norpi

release that cortisol was RESPONDING to. (e.g., stress, I produced

more of my own est/pg during that period which seems to attenuate

this response, low blood sugar issues..definitely have poor glucose

control).

Avi

[Guest guest]

Kathy:

I have posted on the site..Val was stumped by my last cortisol

levels from ASI, done on 10/3 when I was having lots

of " racing/revving " feeling. This was on no meds/no supps to speak

of except vitamins and extra iron.

7-8AM - 34 (Elevated) 13-24nM

11-12N - NON DETECTABLE, LT 1 5-10nM

4-5P - NON DETECTABLE, LT 1 3-8

11-12M - 10 (Elevated) 1-4nM

Cortisol Burden 46 (elevated) 23-42

DHEA - 6 (3-10ng/ML)

Insulin (fasting) LOW LT 3 (3-12)

Insulin (post-prandial) 3 LOW (5-20)

Since the " revving " was much worse in the AM, I have to believe that

it was related to the elevated cortisol. Or an excess epi/norpi

release that cortisol was RESPONDING to. (e.g., stress, I produced

more of my own est/pg during that period which seems to attenuate

this response, low blood sugar issues..definitely have poor glucose

control).

Avi

[Guest guest]

,

What time of day did you take the HC? People on the adrenal group say

that oral HC only lasts 4 hours, so if you took it too soon or if your

level wore off in the night that could explain why it was not helpful.

Thanks for the info on mag. oil. I am going to buy some. I wonder if

VitaCost sells it?

Kathy

> > >

> >

> > >

> > > I decided to take 2.5mg of oral hc today so we will see if that

makes

> > > a difference.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

What time of day did you take the HC? People on the adrenal group say

that oral HC only lasts 4 hours, so if you took it too soon or if your

level wore off in the night that could explain why it was not helpful.

Thanks for the info on mag. oil. I am going to buy some. I wonder if

VitaCost sells it?

Kathy

> > >

> >

> > >

> > > I decided to take 2.5mg of oral hc today so we will see if that

makes

> > > a difference.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

What time of day did you take the HC? People on the adrenal group say

that oral HC only lasts 4 hours, so if you took it too soon or if your

level wore off in the night that could explain why it was not helpful.

Thanks for the info on mag. oil. I am going to buy some. I wonder if

VitaCost sells it?

Kathy

> > >

> >

> > >

> > > I decided to take 2.5mg of oral hc today so we will see if that

makes

> > > a difference.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

I took it roughly around 2:30 in the afternoon. I have thought about

taking it later, but since I'm so sleep deprived I was afraid it would

worsen the sleeplessness.

I think the mag oil is a relatively new thing and I don't think the

regular supplement sites carry it. But it's important that it be a

good source from which the minerals are obtained, as you don't want

any potentially toxic impurities.

>

> ,

>

> What time of day did you take the HC? People on the adrenal group say

> that oral HC only lasts 4 hours, so if you took it too soon or if your

> level wore off in the night that could explain why it was not helpful.

>

> Thanks for the info on mag. oil. I am going to buy some. I wonder if

> VitaCost sells it?

>

> Kathy

>

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

I took it roughly around 2:30 in the afternoon. I have thought about

taking it later, but since I'm so sleep deprived I was afraid it would

worsen the sleeplessness.

I think the mag oil is a relatively new thing and I don't think the

regular supplement sites carry it. But it's important that it be a

good source from which the minerals are obtained, as you don't want

any potentially toxic impurities.

>

> ,

>

> What time of day did you take the HC? People on the adrenal group say

> that oral HC only lasts 4 hours, so if you took it too soon or if your

> level wore off in the night that could explain why it was not helpful.

>

> Thanks for the info on mag. oil. I am going to buy some. I wonder if

> VitaCost sells it?

>

> Kathy

>

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

I took it roughly around 2:30 in the afternoon. I have thought about

taking it later, but since I'm so sleep deprived I was afraid it would

worsen the sleeplessness.

I think the mag oil is a relatively new thing and I don't think the

regular supplement sites carry it. But it's important that it be a

good source from which the minerals are obtained, as you don't want

any potentially toxic impurities.

>

> ,

>

> What time of day did you take the HC? People on the adrenal group say

> that oral HC only lasts 4 hours, so if you took it too soon or if your

> level wore off in the night that could explain why it was not helpful.

>

> Thanks for the info on mag. oil. I am going to buy some. I wonder if

> VitaCost sells it?

>

> Kathy

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

If you took it at 2:30 it would have worn off by 6:30 if the 4 hour

thing for oral is correct. One interesting thing that I read on the

adrenals group is that someone said that using the correct dose of HC

during the day can do something to your ACTH (I am not sure if those

are the correct initials) and then cause your nighttime cortisol to be

even lower. I am thinking that maybe something similar was happening

to me, because all of a sudden with the HC cream I was feeling good in

the daytime but not sleeping well at night. But before the daytime HC

cream I was sleeping fair at night.

After my experiment last night with the HC cream I am convinced that

at least with me that those adrenalin zaps are from too low cortisol.

I am wondering if HC cream at night like I used last night may be a

better option than oral HC at night because it seems to last longer

than 4 hours? If you need HC at night to sleep and take oral HC you

may wind up waking up in the middle of the night and having to take

another dose because the bedtime dose wore off.

HC cream can really wake me up though, so I think an important key for

bedtime dosing is to take just enough for the zaps to go away and not

feel too awake. Last night that was 2 mg of HC cream for me (or 0.2

grams). I took it split over the course of an hour though, so maybe

if I took it all at once I would need a little less?

Kathy

> >

> > ,

> >

> > What time of day did you take the HC? People on the adrenal group say

> > that oral HC only lasts 4 hours, so if you took it too soon or if your

> > level wore off in the night that could explain why it was not helpful.

> >

> > Thanks for the info on mag. oil. I am going to buy some. I wonder if

> > VitaCost sells it?

> >

> > Kathy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

If you took it at 2:30 it would have worn off by 6:30 if the 4 hour

thing for oral is correct. One interesting thing that I read on the

adrenals group is that someone said that using the correct dose of HC

during the day can do something to your ACTH (I am not sure if those

are the correct initials) and then cause your nighttime cortisol to be

even lower. I am thinking that maybe something similar was happening

to me, because all of a sudden with the HC cream I was feeling good in

the daytime but not sleeping well at night. But before the daytime HC

cream I was sleeping fair at night.

After my experiment last night with the HC cream I am convinced that

at least with me that those adrenalin zaps are from too low cortisol.

I am wondering if HC cream at night like I used last night may be a

better option than oral HC at night because it seems to last longer

than 4 hours? If you need HC at night to sleep and take oral HC you

may wind up waking up in the middle of the night and having to take

another dose because the bedtime dose wore off.

HC cream can really wake me up though, so I think an important key for

bedtime dosing is to take just enough for the zaps to go away and not

feel too awake. Last night that was 2 mg of HC cream for me (or 0.2

grams). I took it split over the course of an hour though, so maybe

if I took it all at once I would need a little less?

Kathy

> >

> > ,

> >

> > What time of day did you take the HC? People on the adrenal group say

> > that oral HC only lasts 4 hours, so if you took it too soon or if your

> > level wore off in the night that could explain why it was not helpful.

> >

> > Thanks for the info on mag. oil. I am going to buy some. I wonder if

> > VitaCost sells it?

> >

> > Kathy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

If you took it at 2:30 it would have worn off by 6:30 if the 4 hour

thing for oral is correct. One interesting thing that I read on the

adrenals group is that someone said that using the correct dose of HC

during the day can do something to your ACTH (I am not sure if those

are the correct initials) and then cause your nighttime cortisol to be

even lower. I am thinking that maybe something similar was happening

to me, because all of a sudden with the HC cream I was feeling good in

the daytime but not sleeping well at night. But before the daytime HC

cream I was sleeping fair at night.

After my experiment last night with the HC cream I am convinced that

at least with me that those adrenalin zaps are from too low cortisol.

I am wondering if HC cream at night like I used last night may be a

better option than oral HC at night because it seems to last longer

than 4 hours? If you need HC at night to sleep and take oral HC you

may wind up waking up in the middle of the night and having to take

another dose because the bedtime dose wore off.

HC cream can really wake me up though, so I think an important key for

bedtime dosing is to take just enough for the zaps to go away and not

feel too awake. Last night that was 2 mg of HC cream for me (or 0.2

grams). I took it split over the course of an hour though, so maybe

if I took it all at once I would need a little less?

Kathy

> >

> > ,

> >

> > What time of day did you take the HC? People on the adrenal group say

> > that oral HC only lasts 4 hours, so if you took it too soon or if your

> > level wore off in the night that could explain why it was not helpful.

> >

> > Thanks for the info on mag. oil. I am going to buy some. I wonder if

> > VitaCost sells it?

> >

> > Kathy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sam,

Thanks for the information. Regarding waiting for the symptoms to

return--I still have not figured out my HC dosing so I get the return

of symptoms every day, from taking too little HC. Today I got

symptoms about 1:00pm took some extra HC and took a nap. I took 2.5

mg at 7:00 am and 2.5 mg at 11:00 am. My 7am dose seemed OK (I felt

good this morning) but I must have needed more at 11. I felt good

until about noon, at about 12:30 I was so tired that a little later I

took another 2.5 mg and took a nap. Now at 3:00 I feel better.

Everything I have read says that the first dose in the morning needs

to be the highest dose, but I feel good then, if I take more at that

time it feels like too much.

After this experience today I think it is going to be hard to go two

days without HC. I am thinking that maybe the day before my test I

should take my morning and early afternoon dose, skip my bedtime dose

and start testing the next morning with no HC that day until after my

last test. It just seems like that when the HC wears off it is gone

fast. When I first started with the topical HC I thought it was

lasting a long time, I have changed my mind.

I will check with my walk in lab about the blood tests.

The articles were interesting. The second tuberose article is not

there any more. The cashed version from Google is available here:

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:w_9HpGgMmy8J:www.tuberose.com/Adrenal_Gland\

s.html+tuberose+adrenal+glands & hl=en & ct=clnk & cd=1 & gl=us

I did not read through all of it yet but I did accidentally print out

all 21 pages so I can read it later when I have time.

Thanks again.

Kathy

> >> >>

> >> >> Kathy you do NOT have to wait 2 weeks to saliva test your

adrenals.

> >> >> Prepare for the saliva " Cortisol Rhythm " test (24hr 4 times a day

> > test)

> >> >> and wait until you get " symptoms " , then test.

> >> >>

> >> >> Blood testing cortisol is NOT reliable.

> >> >>

> >> >> Sam

> >> >> (thyroidless since 1990)

> >> >>

> >> >> =====

> >> >> > Hi Avi,

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Wow, you are really a complicated case! I understand why

you are

> >> >> > waiting to try HC. I really hope that someone can help you

> > figure out

> >> >> > what is going on with you.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > I have not been tested for my adrenal issues and now that I

finally

> >> >> > want to test myself I have found that saliva testing is

worthless

> >> >> > unless I go off everything for two weeks. I cannot afford to be

> >> >> > disabled for two weeks so I am going to have to wait on the

saliva

> >> >> > testing. So for me, I know I have adrenal issues and I am

> > guessing at

> >> >> > what my treatment should be using trial and error (and

> > reading). I do

> >> >> > know that I developed an adrenal issue after a virus about

one year

> >> >> > ago. I think I had adrenal issues before that but on a

different

> >> >> > level. Treating myself with adrenal extract and some licorice

> > helped

> >> >> > me partially but did not get rid of my afternoon fatigue.

> >> >> > Experimenting with HC cream for a shoulder issue (not adrenal

> > issue)

> >> >> > eliminated my afternoon fatigue. Now I am hooked on HC cream

> > and want

> >> >> > to continue to feel good. I just wish I had saliva testing

to know

> >> >> > how bad my adrenal issue really is; I am just not willing to

> > torture

> >> >> > myself for two weeks to get my levels.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > If you were like me, you would have tried HC a long time ago

> > " just to

> >> >> > see if it helps " . But if I were like you, I would have gone

to the

> >> >> > doctor and got tested before I started any adrenal treatment.

> > Maybe

> >> >> > if I had a doctor that I thought would be able to help me, I

> > would be

> >> >> > more willing to go. I do not even trust my best doctor because

> > I have

> >> >> > seen his work! My HMO doctors seem less experienced that my 13

> > year

> >> >> > old son; he has better ideas on what to do when I am not

> > feeling well!

> >> >> > When I met my newest HMO doctor it felt like I was being

> > interviewed

> >> >> > by a high school girl in training to be a doctor.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Here are my thoughts for you—this is not advice though, I would

> > never

> >> >> > want to tell you what to do about something so complicated

> > especially

> >> >> > since I am no expert! My thoughts for you are that you do

need HC.

> >> >> > Your high am cortisol is your body over reacting to your lows.

> > If you

> >> >> > started on a low dose treatment plan which ramps up HC

slowly, that

> >> >> > treatment may allow your adrenal glands to rest and (maybe)

recover

> >> >> > and get back into the correct rhythm. From my recent reading,

> > ramping

> >> >> > up HC slowly and dosing it correctly during the day can get

us back

> >> >> > into the correct cortisol rhythm. I just wonder if you started

> > with a

> >> >> > small bedtime dose if that would help your adrenals rest at

> > night so

> >> >> > that you do not get that rebound effect of high cortisol in the

> >> >> > morning? I know that the ramping schedule starts in the

> > morning and

> >> >> > does not add evening/bedtime doses until later but I just

wonder if

> >> >> > that should always be the schedule especially with someone with

> > high

> >> >> > morning cortisol.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Good luck! (I wish I could figure out something nicer to

say—good

> >> >> > luck always sounds trite to me when I say it.)

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Kathy

> >> >> >

> >> >> >

> >> >>

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >>

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Madeleen,

I have not changed my E dose but I am no longer having to get up at

night with the HC. I thought that it was because I was sleeping

better. I have noticed a less full bladder in the morning (maybe just

a coincidence?). Does HC do something to make E work better?

Thanks,

Kathy

> > >>

> > >> Kathy you do NOT have to wait 2 weeks to saliva test your adrenals.

> > >> Prepare for the saliva " Cortisol Rhythm " test (24hr 4 times a day

> test)

> > >> and wait until you get " symptoms " , then test.

> > >>

> > >> Blood testing cortisol is NOT reliable.

> > >>

> > >> Sam

> > >> (thyroidless since 1990)

> > >>

> > >> =====

> > >> > Hi Avi,

> > >> >

> > >> > Wow, you are really a complicated case! I understand why you are

> > >> > waiting to try HC. I really hope that someone can help you

> figure out

> > >> > what is going on with you.

> > >> >

> > >> > I have not been tested for my adrenal issues and now that I

finally

> > >> > want to test myself I have found that saliva testing is worthless

> > >> > unless I go off everything for two weeks. I cannot afford to be

> > >> > disabled for two weeks so I am going to have to wait on the

saliva

> > >> > testing. So for me, I know I have adrenal issues and I am

> guessing at

> > >> > what my treatment should be using trial and error (and

> reading). I do

> > >> > know that I developed an adrenal issue after a virus about

one year

> > >> > ago. I think I had adrenal issues before that but on a different

> > >> > level. Treating myself with adrenal extract and some licorice

> helped

> > >> > me partially but did not get rid of my afternoon fatigue.

> > >> > Experimenting with HC cream for a shoulder issue (not adrenal

> issue)

> > >> > eliminated my afternoon fatigue. Now I am hooked on HC cream

> and want

> > >> > to continue to feel good. I just wish I had saliva testing to

know

> > >> > how bad my adrenal issue really is; I am just not willing to

> torture

> > >> > myself for two weeks to get my levels.

> > >> >

> > >> > If you were like me, you would have tried HC a long time ago

> " just to

> > >> > see if it helps " . But if I were like you, I would have gone

to the

> > >> > doctor and got tested before I started any adrenal treatment.

> Maybe

> > >> > if I had a doctor that I thought would be able to help me, I

> would be

> > >> > more willing to go. I do not even trust my best doctor because

> I have

> > >> > seen his work! My HMO doctors seem less experienced that my 13

> year

> > >> > old son; he has better ideas on what to do when I am not

> feeling well!

> > >> > When I met my newest HMO doctor it felt like I was being

> interviewed

> > >> > by a high school girl in training to be a doctor.

> > >> >

> > >> > Here are my thoughts for you—this is not advice though, I would

> never

> > >> > want to tell you what to do about something so complicated

> especially

> > >> > since I am no expert! My thoughts for you are that you do

need HC.

> > >> > Your high am cortisol is your body over reacting to your lows.

> If you

> > >> > started on a low dose treatment plan which ramps up HC

slowly, that

> > >> > treatment may allow your adrenal glands to rest and (maybe)

recover

> > >> > and get back into the correct rhythm. From my recent reading,

> ramping

> > >> > up HC slowly and dosing it correctly during the day can get

us back

> > >> > into the correct cortisol rhythm. I just wonder if you started

> with a

> > >> > small bedtime dose if that would help your adrenals rest at

> night so

> > >> > that you do not get that rebound effect of high cortisol in the

> > >> > morning? I know that the ramping schedule starts in the

> morning and

> > >> > does not add evening/bedtime doses until later but I just

wonder if

> > >> > that should always be the schedule especially with someone with

> high

> > >> > morning cortisol.

> > >> >

> > >> > Good luck! (I wish I could figure out something nicer to say—good

> > >> > luck always sounds trite to me when I say it.)

> > >> >

> > >> > Kathy

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

>

[Guest guest]

It really would be better if you stayed

off the HC for the 24 hours before you

did the saliva cortisol testing.

Sounds to me like your cortisol may be fine

in the morning but drop too low after that.

But that darn saliva testing will tell you

for sure. <wink>

As for the tuberose article, I usually just

go to www.tuberose.com then click on " articles "

then scroll to the adrenal gland article. There

are some amazing articles on that site...about

blew me away... You should read the thyroid

article...Woo EEE

Sam

=====

> Hi Sam,

>

> Thanks for the information. Regarding waiting for the symptoms to

> return--I still have not figured out my HC dosing so I get the return

> of symptoms every day, from taking too little HC. Today I got

> symptoms about 1:00pm took some extra HC and took a nap. I took 2.5

> mg at 7:00 am and 2.5 mg at 11:00 am. My 7am dose seemed OK (I felt

> good this morning) but I must have needed more at 11. I felt good

> until about noon, at about 12:30 I was so tired that a little later I

> took another 2.5 mg and took a nap. Now at 3:00 I feel better.

> Everything I have read says that the first dose in the morning needs

> to be the highest dose, but I feel good then, if I take more at that

> time it feels like too much.

>

> After this experience today I think it is going to be hard to go two

> days without HC. I am thinking that maybe the day before my test I

> should take my morning and early afternoon dose, skip my bedtime dose

> and start testing the next morning with no HC that day until after my

> last test. It just seems like that when the HC wears off it is gone

> fast. When I first started with the topical HC I thought it was

> lasting a long time, I have changed my mind.

>

> I will check with my walk in lab about the blood tests.

>

> The articles were interesting. The second tuberose article is not

> there any more. The cashed version from Google is available here:

>

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:w_9HpGgMmy8J:www.tuberose.com/Adrenal_Gland\

s.html+tuberose+adrenal+glands & hl=en & ct=clnk & cd=1 & gl=us

> I did not read through all of it yet but I did accidentally print out

> all 21 pages so I can read it later when I have time.

>

> Thanks again.

>

> Kathy

>

>

>

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Kathy you do NOT have to wait 2 weeks to saliva test your

> adrenals.

>> >> >> Prepare for the saliva " Cortisol Rhythm " test (24hr 4 times a day

>> > test)

>> >> >> and wait until you get " symptoms " , then test.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Blood testing cortisol is NOT reliable.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> Sam

>> >> >> (thyroidless since 1990)

>> >> >>

>> >> >> =====

>> >> >> > Hi Avi,

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> > Wow, you are really a complicated case! I understand why

> you are

>> >> >> > waiting to try HC. I really hope that someone can help you

>> > figure out

>> >> >> > what is going on with you.

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> > I have not been tested for my adrenal issues and now that I

> finally

>> >> >> > want to test myself I have found that saliva testing is

> worthless

>> >> >> > unless I go off everything for two weeks. I cannot afford to be

>> >> >> > disabled for two weeks so I am going to have to wait on the

> saliva

>> >> >> > testing. So for me, I know I have adrenal issues and I am

>> > guessing at

>> >> >> > what my treatment should be using trial and error (and

>> > reading). I do

>> >> >> > know that I developed an adrenal issue after a virus about

> one year

>> >> >> > ago. I think I had adrenal issues before that but on a

> different

>> >> >> > level. Treating myself with adrenal extract and some licorice

>> > helped

>> >> >> > me partially but did not get rid of my afternoon fatigue.

>> >> >> > Experimenting with HC cream for a shoulder issue (not adrenal

>> > issue)

>> >> >> > eliminated my afternoon fatigue. Now I am hooked on HC cream

>> > and want

>> >> >> > to continue to feel good. I just wish I had saliva testing

> to know

>> >> >> > how bad my adrenal issue really is; I am just not willing to

>> > torture

>> >> >> > myself for two weeks to get my levels.

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> > If you were like me, you would have tried HC a long time ago

>> > " just to

>> >> >> > see if it helps " . But if I were like you, I would have gone

> to the

>> >> >> > doctor and got tested before I started any adrenal treatment.

>> > Maybe

>> >> >> > if I had a doctor that I thought would be able to help me, I

>> > would be

>> >> >> > more willing to go. I do not even trust my best doctor because

>> > I have

>> >> >> > seen his work! My HMO doctors seem less experienced that my 13

>> > year

>> >> >> > old son; he has better ideas on what to do when I am not

>> > feeling well!

>> >> >> > When I met my newest HMO doctor it felt like I was being

>> > interviewed

>> >> >> > by a high school girl in training to be a doctor.

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> > Here are my thoughts for you—this is not advice though, I would

>> > never

>> >> >> > want to tell you what to do about something so complicated

>> > especially

>> >> >> > since I am no expert! My thoughts for you are that you do

> need HC.

>> >> >> > Your high am cortisol is your body over reacting to your lows.

>> > If you

>> >> >> > started on a low dose treatment plan which ramps up HC

> slowly, that

>> >> >> > treatment may allow your adrenal glands to rest and (maybe)

> recover

>> >> >> > and get back into the correct rhythm. From my recent reading,

>> > ramping

>> >> >> > up HC slowly and dosing it correctly during the day can get

> us back

>> >> >> > into the correct cortisol rhythm. I just wonder if you started

>> > with a

>> >> >> > small bedtime dose if that would help your adrenals rest at

>> > night so

>> >> >> > that you do not get that rebound effect of high cortisol in the

>> >> >> > morning? I know that the ramping schedule starts in the

>> > morning and

>> >> >> > does not add evening/bedtime doses until later but I just

> wonder if

>> >> >> > that should always be the schedule especially with someone with

>> > high

>> >> >> > morning cortisol.

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> > Good luck! (I wish I could figure out something nicer to

> say—good

>> >> >> > luck always sounds trite to me when I say it.)

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> > Kathy

>> >> >> >

>> >> >> >

>> >> >>

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >> >

>> >>

>> >

>> >

>> >

>>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Kathy:

Your advice is much appreciated. I am going to meet with my

pharmacist/nutritionist sometime over the holiday to see what to

do. I'm reading Jefferies' book and I think I may be one of those

women with an " over androgen " production..which, theoretically,

cortisol should help. I am being so careful because I've had some

severe mood symptoms when hormones tip (both manic-like AND

depressive) and right now, my head is above water (if only slightly)

and I want to keep it that way..I've posted my latest levels on the

old STTM site (just got latest ASI back from Diagnos-Techs

yesterday) and they are as follows:

Cortisol

7-8 - 3 Depressed (13-24)

11-12 - 4 Depressed (5-10)* * forgot and ate chocolate or this might

4-5 - 2 Depressed (3-8)* have even been worse.

11-12 2 Normal (1-4)

DHEA - 6 Normal (3-10)

Won't bore you with sex hormones..very low and interestingly 17-OHP

is much lower as well , but free T is high normal.

Serum levels of AM cortisol are low normalish; sex hormones low;

DHEAs finally down to what I think is more normal for me (144), but

testosterone and especially free T is high normal and elevated

respectively.

Am so, so frustrated. Have been trying to work with this for 4 years

now and I am such an oddball case I feel like a freak of nature.

Again, my worst symptom is " racing " when I add in estrogen..feeling

manicky. Seems to correlate with increased androgens and TSI Ab's.

Help is appreciated from anyone/everyone.

Avi

> Hi Avi,

>

> Wow, you are really a complicated case! I understand why you are

> waiting to try HC. I really hope that someone can help you figure

out

> what is going on with you.

>

> I have not been tested for my adrenal issues and now that I finally

> want to test myself I have found that saliva testing is worthless

> unless I go off everything for two weeks. I cannot afford to be

> disabled for two weeks so I am going to have to wait on the saliva

> testing. So for me, I know I have adrenal issues and I am

guessing at

> what my treatment should be using trial and error (and reading).

I do

> know that I developed an adrenal issue after a virus about one year

> ago. I think I had adrenal issues before that but on a different

> level. Treating myself with adrenal extract and some licorice

helped

> me partially but did not get rid of my afternoon fatigue.

> Experimenting with HC cream for a shoulder issue (not adrenal

issue)

> eliminated my afternoon fatigue. Now I am hooked on HC cream and

want

> to continue to feel good. I just wish I had saliva testing to know

> how bad my adrenal issue really is; I am just not willing to

torture

> myself for two weeks to get my levels.

>

> If you were like me, you would have tried HC a long time ago " just

to

> see if it helps " . But if I were like you, I would have gone to the

> doctor and got tested before I started any adrenal treatment.

Maybe

> if I had a doctor that I thought would be able to help me, I would

be

> more willing to go. I do not even trust my best doctor because I

have

> seen his work! My HMO doctors seem less experienced that my 13

year

> old son; he has better ideas on what to do when I am not feeling

well!

> When I met my newest HMO doctor it felt like I was being

interviewed

> by a high school girl in training to be a doctor.

>

> Here are my thoughts for you—this is not advice though, I would

never

> want to tell you what to do about something so complicated

especially

> since I am no expert! My thoughts for you are that you do need

HC.

> Your high am cortisol is your body over reacting to your lows. If

you

> started on a low dose treatment plan which ramps up HC slowly, that

> treatment may allow your adrenal glands to rest and (maybe) recover

> and get back into the correct rhythm. From my recent reading,

ramping

> up HC slowly and dosing it correctly during the day can get us back

> into the correct cortisol rhythm. I just wonder if you started

with a

> small bedtime dose if that would help your adrenals rest at night

so

> that you do not get that rebound effect of high cortisol in the

> morning? I know that the ramping schedule starts in the morning

and

> does not add evening/bedtime doses until later but I just wonder if

> that should always be the schedule especially with someone with

high

> morning cortisol.

>

> Good luck! (I wish I could figure out something nicer to say—good

> luck always sounds trite to me when I say it.)

>

> Kathy

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sam,

I will try to stay off of HC for 24 hours before my test. I have not

seen any dosing recommendations for good cortisol level in the morning

followed by a drop off. If I take HC first thing in the morning I do

not feel right but I feel just fine (better) if I take it later in the

day when I can tell I need it. I cannot even describe the feeling I

get with taking HC first thing in the morning because it is so unusual

for me. It is a combination of a coffee buz, slight blood sugar

issue, and slightly tingly feeling on my skin which causes me to

become fully alert quickly. I wish I knew what was happening. Maybe

the saliva tests will be helpful.

The entire tuberose site is gone. The only way to look at anything

that used to be there is to look at what is cached in Google. I got a

chance to read the my printed version of the adrenal article yesterday

evening during a band concert. It was interesting. The only error

that I found was that the author mentioned that the adrenal glands are

the only source for male hormones for females and estrogen for men.

They forgot about the ovaries (for women) and fat. Otherwise I

thought the article was good and interesting. I will see if I can

find the cached version of the thyroid article. That cache back up in

Google is great. I had to pay an insurance bill the other day and the

insurance companies site was down. I used the cached version instead

and was able to get to the pay bill link (which is on a bank site)--it

was a real help.

Kathy

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> Kathy you do NOT have to wait 2 weeks to saliva test your

> > adrenals.

> >> >> >> Prepare for the saliva " Cortisol Rhythm " test (24hr 4 times

a day

> >> > test)

> >> >> >> and wait until you get " symptoms " , then test.

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> Blood testing cortisol is NOT reliable.

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> Sam

> >> >> >> (thyroidless since 1990)

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> =====

> >> >> >> > Hi Avi,

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> > Wow, you are really a complicated case! I understand why

> > you are

> >> >> >> > waiting to try HC. I really hope that someone can help you

> >> > figure out

> >> >> >> > what is going on with you.

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> > I have not been tested for my adrenal issues and now that I

> > finally

> >> >> >> > want to test myself I have found that saliva testing is

> > worthless

> >> >> >> > unless I go off everything for two weeks. I cannot

afford to be

> >> >> >> > disabled for two weeks so I am going to have to wait on the

> > saliva

> >> >> >> > testing. So for me, I know I have adrenal issues and I am

> >> > guessing at

> >> >> >> > what my treatment should be using trial and error (and

> >> > reading). I do

> >> >> >> > know that I developed an adrenal issue after a virus about

> > one year

> >> >> >> > ago. I think I had adrenal issues before that but on a

> > different

> >> >> >> > level. Treating myself with adrenal extract and some

licorice

> >> > helped

> >> >> >> > me partially but did not get rid of my afternoon fatigue.

> >> >> >> > Experimenting with HC cream for a shoulder issue (not adrenal

> >> > issue)

> >> >> >> > eliminated my afternoon fatigue. Now I am hooked on HC cream

> >> > and want

> >> >> >> > to continue to feel good. I just wish I had saliva testing

> > to know

> >> >> >> > how bad my adrenal issue really is; I am just not willing to

> >> > torture

> >> >> >> > myself for two weeks to get my levels.

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> > If you were like me, you would have tried HC a long time ago

> >> > " just to

> >> >> >> > see if it helps " . But if I were like you, I would have gone

> > to the

> >> >> >> > doctor and got tested before I started any adrenal treatment.

> >> > Maybe

> >> >> >> > if I had a doctor that I thought would be able to help me, I

> >> > would be

> >> >> >> > more willing to go. I do not even trust my best doctor

because

> >> > I have

> >> >> >> > seen his work! My HMO doctors seem less experienced that

my 13

> >> > year

> >> >> >> > old son; he has better ideas on what to do when I am not

> >> > feeling well!

> >> >> >> > When I met my newest HMO doctor it felt like I was being

> >> > interviewed

> >> >> >> > by a high school girl in training to be a doctor.

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> > Here are my thoughts for you—this is not advice though, I

would

> >> > never

> >> >> >> > want to tell you what to do about something so complicated

> >> > especially

> >> >> >> > since I am no expert! My thoughts for you are that you do

> > need HC.

> >> >> >> > Your high am cortisol is your body over reacting to your

lows.

> >> > If you

> >> >> >> > started on a low dose treatment plan which ramps up HC

> > slowly, that

> >> >> >> > treatment may allow your adrenal glands to rest and (maybe)

> > recover

> >> >> >> > and get back into the correct rhythm. From my recent

reading,

> >> > ramping

> >> >> >> > up HC slowly and dosing it correctly during the day can get

> > us back

> >> >> >> > into the correct cortisol rhythm. I just wonder if you

started

> >> > with a

> >> >> >> > small bedtime dose if that would help your adrenals rest at

> >> > night so

> >> >> >> > that you do not get that rebound effect of high cortisol

in the

> >> >> >> > morning? I know that the ramping schedule starts in the

> >> > morning and

> >> >> >> > does not add evening/bedtime doses until later but I just

> > wonder if

> >> >> >> > that should always be the schedule especially with

someone with

> >> > high

> >> >> >> > morning cortisol.

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> > Good luck! (I wish I could figure out something nicer to

> > say—good

> >> >> >> > luck always sounds trite to me when I say it.)

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> > Kathy

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >> >

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >

> >> >> >

> >> >> >

> >> >>

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >>

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Avi,

What did Val tell you to do yesterday? (I am going to have to go lurk

on that board later today!) If I were you (not giving any advice

though) I would be slapping on some HC cream right away. Just use a

scale to measure and remember less is more at the beginning. I can

feel 1mg of HC cream, just as a reference.

Yes!--that is interesting about Jefferies and the androgen thing. I

was reading part of his book this morning and he mentioned that even

things like acne are helped with HC. I was happy to read that because

I am always struggling with acne, being on the edge of my next big

pimple. So if you read Jefferies you are not a freak of nature at

all, you may just be one of those low adrenal people who get excess

androgens as a side effect and who may respond favorably to HC treatment.

Maybe the HC would help moderate your symptoms when you add in E????

HC has a very nice calming effect on me plus it gets rid of my

un-needed extra adrenalin. I do have issues with it first thing in

the morning but I think my own cortisol is ok then and maybe the extra

puts me over the edge with too much.

Good luck.

Kathy

>

> Hello Kathy:

> Your advice is much appreciated. I am going to meet with my

> pharmacist/nutritionist sometime over the holiday to see what to

> do. I'm reading Jefferies' book and I think I may be one of those

> women with an " over androgen " production..which, theoretically,

> cortisol should help. I am being so careful because I've had some

> severe mood symptoms when hormones tip (both manic-like AND

> depressive) and right now, my head is above water (if only slightly)

> and I want to keep it that way..I've posted my latest levels on the

> old STTM site (just got latest ASI back from Diagnos-Techs

> yesterday) and they are as follows:

>

> Cortisol

> 7-8 - 3 Depressed (13-24)

> 11-12 - 4 Depressed (5-10)* * forgot and ate chocolate or this might

> 4-5 - 2 Depressed (3-8)* have even been worse.

> 11-12 2 Normal (1-4)

>

> DHEA - 6 Normal (3-10)

>

> Won't bore you with sex hormones..very low and interestingly 17-OHP

> is much lower as well , but free T is high normal.

>

> Serum levels of AM cortisol are low normalish; sex hormones low;

> DHEAs finally down to what I think is more normal for me (144), but

> testosterone and especially free T is high normal and elevated

> respectively.

>

> Am so, so frustrated. Have been trying to work with this for 4 years

> now and I am such an oddball case I feel like a freak of nature.

> Again, my worst symptom is " racing " when I add in estrogen..feeling

> manicky. Seems to correlate with increased androgens and TSI Ab's.

> Help is appreciated from anyone/everyone.

> Avi

>

> > Hi Avi,

> >

> > Wow, you are really a complicated case! I understand why you are

> > waiting to try HC. I really hope that someone can help you figure

> out

> > what is going on with you.

> >

> > I have not been tested for my adrenal issues and now that I finally

> > want to test myself I have found that saliva testing is worthless

> > unless I go off everything for two weeks. I cannot afford to be

> > disabled for two weeks so I am going to have to wait on the saliva

> > testing. So for me, I know I have adrenal issues and I am

> guessing at

> > what my treatment should be using trial and error (and reading).

> I do

> > know that I developed an adrenal issue after a virus about one year

> > ago. I think I had adrenal issues before that but on a different

> > level. Treating myself with adrenal extract and some licorice

> helped

> > me partially but did not get rid of my afternoon fatigue.

> > Experimenting with HC cream for a shoulder issue (not adrenal

> issue)

> > eliminated my afternoon fatigue. Now I am hooked on HC cream and

> want

> > to continue to feel good. I just wish I had saliva testing to know

> > how bad my adrenal issue really is; I am just not willing to

> torture

> > myself for two weeks to get my levels.

> >

> > If you were like me, you would have tried HC a long time ago " just

> to

> > see if it helps " . But if I were like you, I would have gone to the

> > doctor and got tested before I started any adrenal treatment.

> Maybe

> > if I had a doctor that I thought would be able to help me, I would

> be

> > more willing to go. I do not even trust my best doctor because I

> have

> > seen his work! My HMO doctors seem less experienced that my 13

> year

> > old son; he has better ideas on what to do when I am not feeling

> well!

> > When I met my newest HMO doctor it felt like I was being

> interviewed

> > by a high school girl in training to be a doctor.

> >

> > Here are my thoughts for you—this is not advice though, I would

> never

> > want to tell you what to do about something so complicated

> especially

> > since I am no expert! My thoughts for you are that you do need

> HC.

> > Your high am cortisol is your body over reacting to your lows. If

> you

> > started on a low dose treatment plan which ramps up HC slowly, that

> > treatment may allow your adrenal glands to rest and (maybe) recover

> > and get back into the correct rhythm. From my recent reading,

> ramping

> > up HC slowly and dosing it correctly during the day can get us back

> > into the correct cortisol rhythm. I just wonder if you started

> with a

> > small bedtime dose if that would help your adrenals rest at night

> so

> > that you do not get that rebound effect of high cortisol in the

> > morning? I know that the ramping schedule starts in the morning

> and

> > does not add evening/bedtime doses until later but I just wonder if

> > that should always be the schedule especially with someone with

> high

> > morning cortisol.

> >

> > Good luck! (I wish I could figure out something nicer to say—good

> > luck always sounds trite to me when I say it.)

> >

> > Kathy

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Kathy:

I posted the ASI this AM, haven't heard back from Val at STTM yet.

Avi

>

> Hi Avi,

>

> What did Val tell you to do yesterday? (I am going to have to go

lurk

> on that board later today!) If I were you (not giving any advice

> though) I would be slapping on some HC cream right away. Just use

a

> scale to measure and remember less is more at the beginning. I can

> feel 1mg of HC cream, just as a reference.

>

> Yes!--that is interesting about Jefferies and the androgen thing.

I

> was reading part of his book this morning and he mentioned that

even

> things like acne are helped with HC. I was happy to read that

because

> I am always struggling with acne, being on the edge of my next big

> pimple. So if you read Jefferies you are not a freak of nature at

> all, you may just be one of those low adrenal people who get excess

> androgens as a side effect and who may respond favorably to HC

treatment.

>

> Maybe the HC would help moderate your symptoms when you add in

E????

> HC has a very nice calming effect on me plus it gets rid of my

> un-needed extra adrenalin. I do have issues with it first thing in

> the morning but I think my own cortisol is ok then and maybe the

extra

> puts me over the edge with too much.

>

> Good luck.

>

> Kathy

[Guest guest]

> If I take HC first thing in the morning I do

> not feel right but I feel just fine (better) if I take it later in the

> day when I can tell I need it.

That may be do to either the form of HC you are taking and not needing it

in the morning. I don't know for sure, tho.

> I wish I knew what was happening. Maybe

> the saliva tests will be helpful.

Yes, you may be able to see when you do and don't need to

take HC.

> The entire tuberose site is gone.

This is very disturbing. It's an alternative medicine site

and not only quite helpful, but popular as well. I suspect it

may be a server issue, or something. I just can't see that

amount of info being lost like that without a back-up. I've

been looking for the server/isp to contact...

> The only way to look at anything

> that used to be there is to look at what is cached in Google.

How to get there again, please?

Sam

>

>>

>> It really would be better if you stayed

>> off the HC for the 24 hours before you

>> did the saliva cortisol testing.

>>

>> Sounds to me like your cortisol may be fine

>> in the morning but drop too low after that.

>> But that darn saliva testing will tell you

>> for sure. <wink>

>>

>> As for the tuberose article, I usually just

>> go to www.tuberose.com then click on " articles "

>> then scroll to the adrenal gland article. There

>> are some amazing articles on that site...about

>> blew me away... You should read the thyroid

>> article...Woo EEE

>>

>> Sam