Guest guest Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Jung was really tolerant up to a point; observing psychodynamics without judgement as to ontological status, but I think he had real trouble with that whole murder/death/kill people thing. At that level, basically one needs to control onself. In the Flying Saucer Book and a variety of other places, he indicated that he wasn't making metaphysical presuppositions as a philosopher would; like Bush is actually inside or outside. " The flying saucers certainly act like weightless thoughts. " Mark > > Dear , > > With due respect, when you say that, > > " What should matter is the Bush et al in each of us and how we > come to terms with him in our inner work. " > > you are yourself bringing politics into the list insofar as you assume that GB is something (presumably shadowy) " in us " with which we must " come to terms. " (Nobody says we must come to terms with our inner Kerry or Ralph Nader, at least not here.) > > Best regards, > > Dan Watkins > > >I don't understand why the topic is being discussed on this list unless > >it is meant to spark a dialogue about projection and what conspiracies > >exist in the psyche that have found a convenient target in a enormous > >tragedy in the outer world. > > > >What should matter is the Bush et al in each of us and how we > >come to terms with him in our inner work. > > > >Otherwise, there are plenty of more appropriate places to discuss > >politics on the Internet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Burmeister > > > > > > > > > > > > back to school ... > > > > > > > >In a message dated 1/18/2005 1:17:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > >JUNG-FIRE writes: > > > >Further I accept the word of a very experienced " command " pilot about > >this. > >A jet pilot, in fact. > > > >Toni > > > > > > > >Ed, well written reply. > > > >Hi Toni: > > > >Actually, Toni, it's extremely rare to walk around in bliss, thank you > >for > >making it common place, I would that it were. I know most of the top > >people > >in the world in this arena on a personal basis. > > > >My brothers have the following degrees: > > > >BS - Virginia Tech Industrial Engineering > >MS - s Hopkins Environmental Engineering > > > >BS - VA Tech - Master of Science and Mechanical Engineering > >MS - GW - Engineering Economics > > > >BS - UVA - Electrical Engineering > >MS - GA Tech EE > >Ph.D. - current MIT - Electrical Engineering > > > >They all agree with me. One has a pilot's license. Being a pilot > >does not > >make one an engineer nor a physicist. > > > >With all due respect to your husband, they are educated in the top 3 > >engineering schools in the country and all agree with my assessment of > >the physics > >of the situation. > > > >And, the very simplest question is: " how did the 14 paper passports > >survive > >800C temperatures and how did 800C temps melt steel, aluminum and > >titanium > >which requires 2000C? > > > >Additionally, the wing span of the plane purported to have hit the > >Pentagon > >was five times wider than the hole. Wings don't collapse, although a > >well > >shot missile could make it 50 feet inside creating a hole 50 feet down, > >a plane > >could not. > > > >Finally, we have just made the General who was responsible for > >the > >incredible violation of the Geneva Conventions our Attorney General. > >That is > >beyond incredulous to me. > > > >Sorry, but in this case, the physics do not lie. It is impossible to > >create > >new Laws of: > > > >1.) Gravity > >2.) Entropy > >3.) Melting Points > >4.) Velocity > >5.) Force > >6.) Paper > >7.) Lack of Oxygen required within the WTCs for the explosion > > > >Two plus two equals four no matter whether the child in first grade can > >add > >them or not. > > > >Facts are facts. > > > >, smell the coffee and have a cup. Be willing to look a bit > >harder > >at the situation. Of course, it's going to get a lot worse before it > >gets > >better. > > > >Yes, Dan, I absolutely believe we need a much stronger educational > >system > >with much more finances committed to it. Our education is appalling > >compared > >to that available in Northern Europe. > > > >Thank you Alice for correcting the quote, I always appreciate having the > > > >proper quotes. > > > >My favorite for you and Sam - thank you both - from Goethe: > > > > " Until one is committed, there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, > >always > >ineffectiveness. Concerning all acts of initiative and creation, there > >is > >one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and > >splendid > >plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence > >moves > >too. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise > >have > >occurred. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in > >one's > >favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material > >assistance > >which no man could have dreamed would have come his way. Whatever you > >can do or > >dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. > >Begin it > >now. " > > > >Love, Annette > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 devalight11 wrote: Dear Mark, Jung actually suggested that he was himself a philosopher of a certain kind. He did not make groundless " metaphysical propositions, " but then, philosophers don't do that. This is the first time that I ever saw it suggested that Bush was a philosopher, lol; but then, Bush apparently thinks that Jesus was a philosopher. Jung was no pacifist. I assume that you are aware of his views on capital punishment, and on the second world war? I would agree that, at all sorts of levels (sexual, economic, physical, verbal, etc.) one " basically needs to control oneself. " " There's no excuse for domestic violence, " the bumper sticker says - I agree with that. I would also agree that there's no excuse for idleness, or drug abuse, or child neglect, or adultery, or sneaking across the border to work illegally, or unwed motherhood, or a large host of other things. Let ten thousand moral judgments bloom! (and let most of them be puritanical :-). Bush is not evil. He is not even, imo, a bad president. But here it appears to be the mostly unspoken assumption that he *is* evil. When you start seeing devils, you might be projecting. Best, Dan >Jung was really tolerant up to a point; observing psychodynamics without judgement as >to ontological status, but I think he had real trouble with that whole murder/death/kill >people thing. At that level, basically one needs to control onself. In the Flying Saucer >Book and a variety of other places, he indicated that he wasn't making metaphysical >presuppositions as a philosopher would; like Bush is actually inside or outside. > " The flying saucers certainly act like weightless thoughts. " Mark > > >> >>Dear , >> >>With due respect, when you say that, >> >> " What should matter is the Bush et al in each of us and how we >>come to terms with him in our inner work. " >> >>you are yourself bringing politics into the list insofar as you assume that GB is >> >> >something (presumably shadowy) " in us " with which we must " come to terms. " (Nobody >says we must come to terms with our inner Kerry or Ralph Nader, at least not here.) > > >>Best regards, >> >>Dan Watkins >> >> >> >>>I don't understand why the topic is being discussed on this list unless >>>it is meant to spark a dialogue about projection and what conspiracies >>>exist in the psyche that have found a convenient target in a enormous >>>tragedy in the outer world. >>> >>>What should matter is the Bush et al in each of us and how we >>>come to terms with him in our inner work. >>> >>>Otherwise, there are plenty of more appropriate places to discuss >>>politics on the Internet. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Burmeister >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> back to school ... >>> >>> >>> >>>In a message dated 1/18/2005 1:17:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>>JUNG-FIRE writes: >>> >>>Further I accept the word of a very experienced " command " pilot about >>>this. >>>A jet pilot, in fact. >>> >>>Toni >>> >>> >>> >>>Ed, well written reply. >>> >>>Hi Toni: >>> >>>Actually, Toni, it's extremely rare to walk around in bliss, thank you >>>for >>>making it common place, I would that it were. I know most of the top >>>people >>>in the world in this arena on a personal basis. >>> >>>My brothers have the following degrees: >>> >>>BS - Virginia Tech Industrial Engineering >>>MS - s Hopkins Environmental Engineering >>> >>>BS - VA Tech - Master of Science and Mechanical Engineering >>>MS - GW - Engineering Economics >>> >>>BS - UVA - Electrical Engineering >>>MS - GA Tech EE >>>Ph.D. - current MIT - Electrical Engineering >>> >>>They all agree with me. One has a pilot's license. Being a pilot >>>does not >>>make one an engineer nor a physicist. >>> >>>With all due respect to your husband, they are educated in the top 3 >>>engineering schools in the country and all agree with my assessment of >>>the physics >>>of the situation. >>> >>>And, the very simplest question is: " how did the 14 paper passports >>>survive >>>800C temperatures and how did 800C temps melt steel, aluminum and >>>titanium >>>which requires 2000C? >>> >>>Additionally, the wing span of the plane purported to have hit the >>>Pentagon >>>was five times wider than the hole. Wings don't collapse, although a >>>well >>>shot missile could make it 50 feet inside creating a hole 50 feet down, >>>a plane >>>could not. >>> >>>Finally, we have just made the General who was responsible for >>>the >>>incredible violation of the Geneva Conventions our Attorney General. >>>That is >>>beyond incredulous to me. >>> >>>Sorry, but in this case, the physics do not lie. It is impossible to >>>create >>>new Laws of: >>> >>>1.) Gravity >>>2.) Entropy >>>3.) Melting Points >>>4.) Velocity >>>5.) Force >>>6.) Paper >>>7.) Lack of Oxygen required within the WTCs for the explosion >>> >>>Two plus two equals four no matter whether the child in first grade can >>>add >>>them or not. >>> >>>Facts are facts. >>> >>>, smell the coffee and have a cup. Be willing to look a bit >>>harder >>>at the situation. Of course, it's going to get a lot worse before it >>>gets >>>better. >>> >>>Yes, Dan, I absolutely believe we need a much stronger educational >>>system >>>with much more finances committed to it. Our education is appalling >>>compared >>>to that available in Northern Europe. >>> >>>Thank you Alice for correcting the quote, I always appreciate having the >>> >>>proper quotes. >>> >>>My favorite for you and Sam - thank you both - from Goethe: >>> >>> " Until one is committed, there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, >>>always >>>ineffectiveness. Concerning all acts of initiative and creation, there >>>is >>>one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and >>>splendid >>>plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence >>>moves >>>too. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise >>>have >>>occurred. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in >>>one's >>>favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material >>>assistance >>>which no man could have dreamed would have come his way. Whatever you >>>can do or >>>dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. >>>Begin it >>>now. " >>> >>>Love, Annette >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Thanks for this mark. again, samdasani speaks to this point. and jung -- " It does not surprise me that psychology debouches into philosophy, for the thinking that underlies philosophy is after all a psychic activity which, as such, is the proper study of psychology. I always think of psychology as encompassing the whole of the psyche, and that includes philosophy and theology and many other things besides. For underlying all philosophies and all religions are the facts of the human soul, which may ultimately be the arbiters of truth and error. " 'General Aspects of Dream Psychology'(1916). In CW 8: The Structure and Dynamics of the Psyche. p. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Hi deborah, The self is an eternal study. To think that there is an ultimate conclusion ( " end " as well as logically) detracts from self understanding. A friend of mine once said that one studies astrology for either an hour or a lifetime, but anything in between is dangerous. mark > Thanks for this mark. again, samdasani speaks to this point. and jung -- > > " It does not surprise me that psychology debouches into philosophy, for the thinking that underlies philosophy is after all a psychic activity which, as such, is the proper study of psychology. I always think of psychology as > encompassing the whole of the psyche, and that includes philosophy and theology and many other things besides. For underlying all philosophies and all religions are the facts of the human soul, which may ultimately be the arbiters of truth and error. " > > 'General Aspects of Dream Psychology'(1916). In CW 8: The Structure and Dynamics of the Psyche. p. 5 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Well spoke, mark. As Dr. Aherne says (and continues to lament!), it's a strange psychology that turns its back on Psyche! Deborah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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