progesterone intolerance and estrogen cream

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone!

Glad to be here on the board. I had not heard of the Wiley protocol but I have

been trying to search for information on progesterone intolerance (there is not

much out there!) and I found the rhythmic living site.

I will tell my story briefly. I am 38 years old, premenopausal with uterus.

When I was 23 I had a terrible virus and have had a host of health issues ever

since. I have hashimoto's thyroiditis, asthma, and blood tests have recently

shown that I have adrenal fatigue. I am under treatment for both of these

conditions, as well as depression, which is also chronic.

I seem to have problems with autoimmune types of things, and I tend to swell up

a lot for mysterious reasons.

Anyway, through a series of personal trial and error sessions, I actually ended

up learning that estriol cream in highish doses helps many of my health problems

for reasons I don't understand, particularly when combined with a small amount

of estradiol. Almost miraculously.

I wanted to try this as a real remedy for my situation, but of course I knew I

needed progesterone in the second half of my cycle. I learned quickly that

progesterone makes me really ill. Even bioidentical progesterone in a teeny

little dab makes me really sick, asthmatic, depressed and totally non

functional. I am wondering if progesterone sensitivity is the reason for many of

my health issues (worse during the luteal phase of my cycle)

So I am finding myself searching everywhere for answers about whether I can take

estrogen unopposed, or if there is any other option.

I can't understand that something which makes me so sick is necessary for me,

but I don't want endometrial cancer!

All of my hormone tests are in the normal range, although now my progesterone is

a little highish, and I feel it!

Any info about any of this would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

[Guest guest]

Oh also, FYI

My latest hormone labs were estradiol 117, progesterone 22 (luteal phase)

I take 6 mg of estriol a day so my estriol is probably over the range...

[Guest guest]

LizW

If you still have ovaries and adrenal glands, they are likely doing their

jobs and producing progesterone. And if so, adding in more progesterone

would be 'too much'.

What thyroid tests did you have run - their results and ranges?

Antibodies? Results?

Saliva cortisol or adrenals or just a morning blood cortisol?

Aldosterone/renin tested? Results?

And how much desiccated thyroid and adrenal support?

I ask this because thyroid/adrenals 'do' affect sex hormones, and

really should be addressed 'properly' first...and if sex hormones

don't normalize on their own after that, then they should be addressed.

Sam

(57yr old biker granny)

=====

> Hi everyone!

> Glad to be here on the board. I had not heard of the Wiley protocol but I

> have been trying to search for information on progesterone intolerance

> (there is not much out there!) and I found the rhythmic living site.

> I will tell my story briefly. I am 38 years old, premenopausal with

> uterus.

> When I was 23 I had a terrible virus and have had a host of health issues

> ever since. I have hashimoto's thyroiditis, asthma, and blood tests have

> recently shown that I have adrenal fatigue. I am under treatment for both

> of these conditions, as well as depression, which is also chronic.

> I seem to have problems with autoimmune types of things, and I tend to

> swell up a lot for mysterious reasons.

> Anyway, through a series of personal trial and error sessions, I actually

> ended up learning that estriol cream in highish doses helps many of my

> health problems for reasons I don't understand, particularly when combined

> with a small amount of estradiol. Almost miraculously.

> I wanted to try this as a real remedy for my situation, but of course I

> knew I needed progesterone in the second half of my cycle. I learned

> quickly that progesterone makes me really ill. Even bioidentical

> progesterone in a teeny little dab makes me really sick, asthmatic,

> depressed and totally non functional. I am wondering if progesterone

> sensitivity is the reason for many of my health issues (worse during the

> luteal phase of my cycle)

> So I am finding myself searching everywhere for answers about whether I

> can take estrogen unopposed, or if there is any other option.

> I can't understand that something which makes me so sick is necessary for

> me, but I don't want endometrial cancer!

> All of my hormone tests are in the normal range, although now my

> progesterone is a little highish, and I feel it!

> Any info about any of this would be greatly appreciated!

> Thanks

[Guest guest]

Hi Sam!

57 yr old biker granny! Awesome!

Thanks for answering my post!

I have had just about every test possible for this stuff LOL!

I have hashimoto's with Reverse T 3/thyroid resistance. I am on 65 mcg of

cytomel (T3 and will likely need to go up). I tried naturethroid but it was

horrible for me because the T4 doesn't get converted correctly.

I am also on cortef because my corisol levels are low and I have to support the

T3 while I adjust it. I think the cortef lowered my estradiol levels a bit and

my progesterone is on the high side now at 22 the top or over the range for some

labs.

I am indeed hoping that once my thyroid is where it should be some of my

symotoms will get better (my temps are still low), but there are some things

that only the estriol seems to help they all have to do with blood

vessels/vascular issues (raynaud's, sinus inflammation, etc)

It is such a dilemma because if I " listen to my body " , I would simply forget

entirely about progesterone supplementation because it feels like poison for me.

However I read endlessly about how estrogen unopposed in someone with a uterus

is a one way ticket to cancer town. I really am confused!

One thing I wonder is:

Is there a symptom I could look for if my endometrial lining builds? Is it

spotting between periods (if one has periods) or is it heavy periods?

I sometimes think that if I learn to " read " my menstrual signs or other symptoms

I will be able to tell if there is build up in the lining...

Are you on any progesterone? Do you have thyroid and adrenal issues also?

Thanks!

Liz W

>

> LizW

> If you still have ovaries and adrenal glands, they are likely doing their

> jobs and producing progesterone. And if so, adding in more progesterone

> would be 'too much'.

>

> What thyroid tests did you have run - their results and ranges?

> Antibodies? Results?

> Saliva cortisol or adrenals or just a morning blood cortisol?

> Aldosterone/renin tested? Results?

> And how much desiccated thyroid and adrenal support?

>

> I ask this because thyroid/adrenals 'do' affect sex hormones, and

> really should be addressed 'properly' first...and if sex hormones

> don't normalize on their own after that, then they should be addressed.

>

> Sam

> (57yr old biker granny)

> =====

>

> > Hi everyone!

> > Glad to be here on the board. I had not heard of the Wiley protocol but I

> > have been trying to search for information on progesterone intolerance

> > (there is not much out there!) and I found the rhythmic living site.

> > I will tell my story briefly. I am 38 years old, premenopausal with

> > uterus.

> > When I was 23 I had a terrible virus and have had a host of health issues

> > ever since. I have hashimoto's thyroiditis, asthma, and blood tests have

> > recently shown that I have adrenal fatigue. I am under treatment for both

> > of these conditions, as well as depression, which is also chronic.

> > I seem to have problems with autoimmune types of things, and I tend to

> > swell up a lot for mysterious reasons.

> > Anyway, through a series of personal trial and error sessions, I actually

> > ended up learning that estriol cream in highish doses helps many of my

> > health problems for reasons I don't understand, particularly when combined

> > with a small amount of estradiol. Almost miraculously.

> > I wanted to try this as a real remedy for my situation, but of course I

> > knew I needed progesterone in the second half of my cycle. I learned

> > quickly that progesterone makes me really ill. Even bioidentical

> > progesterone in a teeny little dab makes me really sick, asthmatic,

> > depressed and totally non functional. I am wondering if progesterone

> > sensitivity is the reason for many of my health issues (worse during the

> > luteal phase of my cycle)

> > So I am finding myself searching everywhere for answers about whether I

> > can take estrogen unopposed, or if there is any other option.

> > I can't understand that something which makes me so sick is necessary for

> > me, but I don't want endometrial cancer!

> > All of my hormone tests are in the normal range, although now my

> > progesterone is a little highish, and I feel it!

> > Any info about any of this would be greatly appreciated!

> > Thanks

>

[Guest guest]

It was Altanta Girl. Wonder if she is reading right now? She went to Roby, but in the end I think she wasn't so impressed. He does see progesterone intolerance though. He uses homopathy to treat it. LaurelHi Liz, Welcome! Have you checked out this place? It’s Dr. Roby. I’m thinking someone on this group may have tried him out? I have not. http://onlineallergycenter.com/index.htm I find it interesting that the large amount of Estriol and a small amount of Estradiol helps you. I’m thinking if your P is highish in relation to your E, then you aren’t E dominant? I wish I had had the knowledge that is out there now, when I was 38. I bet I could have saved myself a lot of pain. That was the age I started using compounded P (under a drs guidance) I went from not so bad to severe depression and endometrial cancer, and a complete hyst at the age of 39. Thanks for sharing your story and good luck! Liz V. From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of wliz@...Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 10:49 PMTo: rhythmicliving Subject: progesterone intolerance and estrogen cream Hi everyone!Glad to be here on the board. I had not heard of the Wiley protocol but I have been trying to search for information on progesterone intolerance (there is not much out there!) and I found the rhythmic living site.I will tell my story briefly. I am 38 years old, premenopausal with uterus.When I was 23 I had a terrible virus and have had a host of health issues ever since. I have hashimoto's thyroiditis, asthma, and blood tests have recently shown that I have adrenal fatigue. I am under treatment for both of these conditions, as well as depression, which is also chronic.I seem to have problems with autoimmune types of things, and I tend to swell up a lot for mysterious reasons. Anyway, through a series of personal trial and error sessions, I actually ended up learning that estriol cream in highish doses helps many of my health problems for reasons I don't understand, particularly when combined with a small amount of estradiol. Almost miraculously.I wanted to try this as a real remedy for my situation, but of course I knew I needed progesterone in the second half of my cycle. I learned quickly that progesterone makes me really ill. Even bioidentical progesterone in a teeny little dab makes me really sick, asthmatic, depressed and totally non functional. I am wondering if progesterone sensitivity is the reason for many of my health issues (worse during the luteal phase of my cycle)So I am finding myself searching everywhere for answers about whether I can take estrogen unopposed, or if there is any other option.I can't understand that something which makes me so sick is necessary for me, but I don't want endometrial cancer!All of my hormone tests are in the normal range, although now my progesterone is a little highish, and I feel it!Any info about any of this would be greatly appreciated!Thanks

[Guest guest]

I do not have a thyroid, uterus/ovaries gone since age 21, and I am

hypO-pit (pituitary doesn't work well). I also own/mod the Yahoo group

called 'thyroidless', and my co-moderator in that group has Hashi's.

I take Naturethroid, presently taking cortisol/HC (stress dosing due to

back injury - now at 35mg/day) but usually take prednisoLone instead,

Iodoral/vitamin c, transdermal BHRT (e, p, t) dosed entirely by symptoms.

Except for this danged back injury I'm healthy as a horse.

Anyway, since you have Hashi's the goal is supposed to be to supress the

thyroid hormone producing function of the thyroid (help lower antibodies

with selenium/magnesium as well). That's impossible with a single hormone

synthetic thyroid drug...it has to be done with natural thyroid (whole

thyroid) like Naturethroid (dosed up by symptoms). But in order to do

that, ferritin (iron storage) must be at least 70-100, and adrenals

absolutely must be properly addressed. The tests for adrenals are the 24

hour saliva cortisol, taken 4 times in 24 hours...and also the

aldosterone/renin blood test. Here's some articles:

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/hashimotos

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ferritin

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/aldosterone

Also at http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com there is a list of

recommended tests...so plaease also check that out.

How much cortef are you on? Anything OVER a physiologic dose (that which a

healthy body makes) can afect estrogen, but NOT lower than that. Really.

There's lots more, but that's the basics...

And again, if you still have ovaries, they are likely still producing

progesterone. I mean do you have symptoms of needing more progesterone?

Listen to your body.

Sam

=====

> Hi Sam!

> 57 yr old biker granny! Awesome!

> Thanks for answering my post!

> I have had just about every test possible for this stuff LOL!

> I have hashimoto's with Reverse T 3/thyroid resistance. I am on 65 mcg of

> cytomel (T3 and will likely need to go up). I tried naturethroid but it

> was horrible for me because the T4 doesn't get converted correctly.

> I am also on cortef because my corisol levels are low and I have to

> support the T3 while I adjust it. I think the cortef lowered my estradiol

> levels a bit and my progesterone is on the high side now at 22 the top or

> over the range for some labs.

>

> I am indeed hoping that once my thyroid is where it should be some of my

> symotoms will get better (my temps are still low), but there are some

> things that only the estriol seems to help they all have to do with blood

> vessels/vascular issues (raynaud's, sinus inflammation, etc)

>

> It is such a dilemma because if I " listen to my body " , I would simply

> forget entirely about progesterone supplementation because it feels like

> poison for me. However I read endlessly about how estrogen unopposed in

> someone with a uterus is a one way ticket to cancer town. I really am

> confused!

>

> One thing I wonder is:

> Is there a symptom I could look for if my endometrial lining builds? Is it

> spotting between periods (if one has periods) or is it heavy periods?

> I sometimes think that if I learn to " read " my menstrual signs or other

> symptoms I will be able to tell if there is build up in the lining...

>

> Are you on any progesterone? Do you have thyroid and adrenal issues also?

> Thanks!

> Liz W

>

>

>>

>> LizW

>> If you still have ovaries and adrenal glands, they are likely doing

>> their

>> jobs and producing progesterone. And if so, adding in more progesterone

>> would be 'too much'.

>>

>> What thyroid tests did you have run - their results and ranges?

>> Antibodies? Results?

>> Saliva cortisol or adrenals or just a morning blood cortisol?

>> Aldosterone/renin tested? Results?

>> And how much desiccated thyroid and adrenal support?

>>

>> I ask this because thyroid/adrenals 'do' affect sex hormones, and

>> really should be addressed 'properly' first...and if sex hormones

>> don't normalize on their own after that, then they should be addressed.

>>

>> Sam

>> (57yr old biker granny)

>> =====

[Guest guest]

I went to go see Dr. Roby for my progesterone "allergy" as he calls it. To me P appeared to go down the wrong pathways. At the time, out of necessity, I was on unopposed E as I worked with his desensitization process. He's an allergist that decided the hormone market was more lucrative. He didn't ask nor say anything about adrenal fatigue which I also had at the time. My unopposed E was a ticking time bomb as I was bleeding daily as I worked with my little sublingual viles of progesterone. You start out with a miniscule dilution and work up to greater strengths over the course of months. Whether it would have actually been successful to where I could tolerate 200 mg of oral P is doubtful. I ended up with a hysto. A year after the hysto I tried a dab of P cream and experienced instant hair loss. After 3 years of working with my adrenal protocol I am off HC and doing great on a moderate dose of armour thyroid. No longer making high levels of RT3. Something tells me I will never be able to use P and get any benefit from it. I am blissfully on 2 1/2 .1 E patches. Dr. Roby might have something there with an allergist's approach to P intolerance, but I'm not so sure. Does working from a fractional dose of P to a full dose change pathways? Can't imagine. Perhaps it works better when already having high P of your own as opposed to dosing P.(btw, when I mentioned SHBG to Roby he said, "what's that"?) (scary) AGHi Liz,Welcome! Have you checked out this place? It's Dr. Roby. I'm thinkingsomeone on this group may have tried him out? I have not. http://onlineallergycenter.com/index.htmI find it interesting that the large amount of Estriol and a small amount ofEstradiol helps you. I'm thinking if your P is highish in relation to yourE, then you aren't E dominant? I wish I had had the knowledge that is outthere now, when I was 38. I bet I could have saved myself a lot of pain.That was the age I started using compounded P (under a drs guidance) I wentfrom not so bad to severe depression and endometrial cancer, and a completehyst at the age of 39.Thanks for sharing your story and good luck!Liz V.

[Guest guest]

I went to go see Dr. Roby for my progesterone "allergy" as he calls it. To me P appeared to go down the wrong pathways. At the time, out of necessity, I was on unopposed E as I worked with his desensitization process. He's an allergist that decided the hormone market was more lucrative. He didn't ask nor say anything about adrenal fatigue which I also had at the time. My unopposed E was a ticking time bomb as I was bleeding daily as I worked with my little sublingual viles of progesterone. You start out with a miniscule dilution and work up to greater strengths over the course of months. Whether it would have actually been successful to where I could tolerate 200 mg of oral P is doubtful. I ended up with a hysto. A year after the hysto I tried a dab of P cream and experienced instant hair loss. After 3 years of working with my adrenal protocol I am off HC and doing great on a moderate dose of armour thyroid. No longer making high levels of RT3. Something tells me I will never be able to use P and get any benefit from it. I am blissfully on 2 1/2 .1 E patches. Dr. Roby might have something there with an allergist's approach to P intolerance, but I'm not so sure. Does working from a fractional dose of P to a full dose change pathways? Can't imagine. Perhaps it works better when already having high P of your own as opposed to dosing P.(btw, when I mentioned SHBG to Roby he said, "what's that"?) (scary) AGHi Liz,Welcome! Have you checked out this place? It's Dr. Roby. I'm thinkingsomeone on this group may have tried him out? I have not. http://onlineallergycenter.com/index.htmI find it interesting that the large amount of Estriol and a small amount ofEstradiol helps you. I'm thinking if your P is highish in relation to yourE, then you aren't E dominant? I wish I had had the knowledge that is outthere now, when I was 38. I bet I could have saved myself a lot of pain.That was the age I started using compounded P (under a drs guidance) I wentfrom not so bad to severe depression and endometrial cancer, and a completehyst at the age of 39.Thanks for sharing your story and good luck!Liz V.

[Guest guest]

> I wish I could take armour but I do so bad on it.

> It just produces RT3 and blocks the T3 so I go really

> hypo on it.

RT3 is how the body rids itself of excess T4!!! That's all.

Armour, and other brands of dessicated porcine thyroid are basically

thyroid glands in pill form. They contain all the thyroid hormones

plus calcitonin.

> I don't know why I have the thyroid resistance syndrome.

> It might be my adrenals which are really bad.

Yes, it could easily be adrenals and also LOW FERRITIN.

> I am on a high dose of cortef, I found that I had to get up to 45 mg (I

> know that is sooo high) to regulate my temps and get my heart rate down.

40mg is full replacement.

Perhaps supplementing potassium and magnesium would have helped more?

Have you had electrolytes tested yet? But with ferritin of 59, that's

probably what's causing problems. That has to get up to " at least " 70-100.

Feosol is a good gentle supplement and can be gotten from Wal-Mart for

$6-$9.

> Last test I had the iron was high so I am a little worried about

> supplementing iron now.

Worry more about the ferritin as that can cause issues with thyroid

absorption.

>> And again, if you still have ovaries, they are likely still producing

>> progesterone. I mean do you have symptoms of needing more progesterone?

>> Listen to your body.

>>

>

> You know, its funny, but I never really thought about this whole issue in

> this way. I have a lot of progesterone because I am premeno and my levels

> are high, so maybe all of the warnings are for people whose levels are

> very low or they no longer produce progesterone in their ovaries. Does

> that sound right?

If you have lots of progeterine in you, don't supplement it because

apparently your body doesn't need it.

You have a thyroid issue, low ferritin, and adrenal issues, and those are

probably the reasons you are getting pre-meno symptoms, but this is

fixable. In meno the estrogen drops/lowers, but progesterone does not. And

in some women that 'excess' progesterone (not really an excess, but just

not enough estrogen) can turn into androgens... One of the gals at one of

the pharmacies I go to is very hypO, already gone totally thru meno, has a

beard she shaves, male pattern baldness, and now has some masculine

features (as compared to her id foto taken 5 years ago).

> Did you have cancer on your thyroid? How much armour are you on?

No, I didn't have cancer of the thyroid. I lost my " HEALTHY " thyroid

because of a stupid idiot doctor. I went to see him to repair my lower

back injury - I broke my back in an equestrian accident in 1987...and he

destroyed my thyroid with radiation instead. He has a target on his back

now...

I don't take Armour, I switched from Armour to Naturethroid (11+ grains)

after the new formulation of Armour made me sick like it was rat poison.

You couldn't pay me enough to take that sh*t again...I am so angry I had

to go thru that and that forest Pharmaceuticals did not inform us of any

potential issues before shipping it out.

Sam

[Guest guest]

> I wish I could take armour but I do so bad on it.

> It just produces RT3 and blocks the T3 so I go really

> hypo on it.

RT3 is how the body rids itself of excess T4!!! That's all.

Armour, and other brands of dessicated porcine thyroid are basically

thyroid glands in pill form. They contain all the thyroid hormones

plus calcitonin.

> I don't know why I have the thyroid resistance syndrome.

> It might be my adrenals which are really bad.

Yes, it could easily be adrenals and also LOW FERRITIN.

> I am on a high dose of cortef, I found that I had to get up to 45 mg (I

> know that is sooo high) to regulate my temps and get my heart rate down.

40mg is full replacement.

Perhaps supplementing potassium and magnesium would have helped more?

Have you had electrolytes tested yet? But with ferritin of 59, that's

probably what's causing problems. That has to get up to " at least " 70-100.

Feosol is a good gentle supplement and can be gotten from Wal-Mart for

$6-$9.

> Last test I had the iron was high so I am a little worried about

> supplementing iron now.

Worry more about the ferritin as that can cause issues with thyroid

absorption.

>> And again, if you still have ovaries, they are likely still producing

>> progesterone. I mean do you have symptoms of needing more progesterone?

>> Listen to your body.

>>

>

> You know, its funny, but I never really thought about this whole issue in

> this way. I have a lot of progesterone because I am premeno and my levels

> are high, so maybe all of the warnings are for people whose levels are

> very low or they no longer produce progesterone in their ovaries. Does

> that sound right?

If you have lots of progeterine in you, don't supplement it because

apparently your body doesn't need it.

You have a thyroid issue, low ferritin, and adrenal issues, and those are

probably the reasons you are getting pre-meno symptoms, but this is

fixable. In meno the estrogen drops/lowers, but progesterone does not. And

in some women that 'excess' progesterone (not really an excess, but just

not enough estrogen) can turn into androgens... One of the gals at one of

the pharmacies I go to is very hypO, already gone totally thru meno, has a

beard she shaves, male pattern baldness, and now has some masculine

features (as compared to her id foto taken 5 years ago).

> Did you have cancer on your thyroid? How much armour are you on?

No, I didn't have cancer of the thyroid. I lost my " HEALTHY " thyroid

because of a stupid idiot doctor. I went to see him to repair my lower

back injury - I broke my back in an equestrian accident in 1987...and he

destroyed my thyroid with radiation instead. He has a target on his back

now...

I don't take Armour, I switched from Armour to Naturethroid (11+ grains)

after the new formulation of Armour made me sick like it was rat poison.

You couldn't pay me enough to take that sh*t again...I am so angry I had

to go thru that and that forest Pharmaceuticals did not inform us of any

potential issues before shipping it out.

Sam

[Guest guest]

Hi Sam

I cannot believe that horror about your doc destroying your thyroid. That kind

of thing makes me so freakin mad! I am so sorry! Sounds so awful! You sound like

you have figured out how to take care of yourself, though

Yeah, I heard that the new armour is causing a lot of problems for people.

Hopefully I can get my RT3 numbers back down (they are too high, which is why it

cause problems) and try naturethroid again. I have to get my adrenals and

ferritin in rder first, though, like you mentioned.

I have tested electrolytes and I do sea salt and potassium (and of course mag)

daily. The HC is the thing that really helps, though.

I thought 35 was the full replacement dose?

Thanks

Liz W

>

>

> > I wish I could take armour but I do so bad on it.

> > It just produces RT3 and blocks the T3 so I go really

> > hypo on it.

>

> RT3 is how the body rids itself of excess T4!!! That's all.

> Armour, and other brands of dessicated porcine thyroid are basically

> thyroid glands in pill form. They contain all the thyroid hormones

> plus calcitonin.

>

> > I don't know why I have the thyroid resistance syndrome.

> > It might be my adrenals which are really bad.

>

> Yes, it could easily be adrenals and also LOW FERRITIN.

>

> > I am on a high dose of cortef, I found that I had to get up to 45 mg (I

> > know that is sooo high) to regulate my temps and get my heart rate down.

>

> 40mg is full replacement.

> Perhaps supplementing potassium and magnesium would have helped more?

> Have you had electrolytes tested yet? But with ferritin of 59, that's

> probably what's causing problems. That has to get up to " at least " 70-100.

> Feosol is a good gentle supplement and can be gotten from Wal-Mart for

> $6-$9.

>

> > Last test I had the iron was high so I am a little worried about

> > supplementing iron now.

>

> Worry more about the ferritin as that can cause issues with thyroid

> absorption.

>

> >> And again, if you still have ovaries, they are likely still producing

> >> progesterone. I mean do you have symptoms of needing more progesterone?

> >> Listen to your body.

> >>

> >

> > You know, its funny, but I never really thought about this whole issue in

> > this way. I have a lot of progesterone because I am premeno and my levels

> > are high, so maybe all of the warnings are for people whose levels are

> > very low or they no longer produce progesterone in their ovaries. Does

> > that sound right?

>

> If you have lots of progeterine in you, don't supplement it because

> apparently your body doesn't need it.

> You have a thyroid issue, low ferritin, and adrenal issues, and those are

> probably the reasons you are getting pre-meno symptoms, but this is

> fixable. In meno the estrogen drops/lowers, but progesterone does not. And

> in some women that 'excess' progesterone (not really an excess, but just

> not enough estrogen) can turn into androgens... One of the gals at one of

> the pharmacies I go to is very hypO, already gone totally thru meno, has a

> beard she shaves, male pattern baldness, and now has some masculine

> features (as compared to her id foto taken 5 years ago).

>

> > Did you have cancer on your thyroid? How much armour are you on?

>

> No, I didn't have cancer of the thyroid. I lost my " HEALTHY " thyroid

> because of a stupid idiot doctor. I went to see him to repair my lower

> back injury - I broke my back in an equestrian accident in 1987...and he

> destroyed my thyroid with radiation instead. He has a target on his back

> now...

>

> I don't take Armour, I switched from Armour to Naturethroid (11+ grains)

> after the new formulation of Armour made me sick like it was rat poison.

> You couldn't pay me enough to take that sh*t again...I am so angry I had

> to go thru that and that forest Pharmaceuticals did not inform us of any

> potential issues before shipping it out.

>

> Sam

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sam

I cannot believe that horror about your doc destroying your thyroid. That kind

of thing makes me so freakin mad! I am so sorry! Sounds so awful! You sound like

you have figured out how to take care of yourself, though

Yeah, I heard that the new armour is causing a lot of problems for people.

Hopefully I can get my RT3 numbers back down (they are too high, which is why it

cause problems) and try naturethroid again. I have to get my adrenals and

ferritin in rder first, though, like you mentioned.

I have tested electrolytes and I do sea salt and potassium (and of course mag)

daily. The HC is the thing that really helps, though.

I thought 35 was the full replacement dose?

Thanks

Liz W

>

>

> > I wish I could take armour but I do so bad on it.

> > It just produces RT3 and blocks the T3 so I go really

> > hypo on it.

>

> RT3 is how the body rids itself of excess T4!!! That's all.

> Armour, and other brands of dessicated porcine thyroid are basically

> thyroid glands in pill form. They contain all the thyroid hormones

> plus calcitonin.

>

> > I don't know why I have the thyroid resistance syndrome.

> > It might be my adrenals which are really bad.

>

> Yes, it could easily be adrenals and also LOW FERRITIN.

>

> > I am on a high dose of cortef, I found that I had to get up to 45 mg (I

> > know that is sooo high) to regulate my temps and get my heart rate down.

>

> 40mg is full replacement.

> Perhaps supplementing potassium and magnesium would have helped more?

> Have you had electrolytes tested yet? But with ferritin of 59, that's

> probably what's causing problems. That has to get up to " at least " 70-100.

> Feosol is a good gentle supplement and can be gotten from Wal-Mart for

> $6-$9.

>

> > Last test I had the iron was high so I am a little worried about

> > supplementing iron now.

>

> Worry more about the ferritin as that can cause issues with thyroid

> absorption.

>

> >> And again, if you still have ovaries, they are likely still producing

> >> progesterone. I mean do you have symptoms of needing more progesterone?

> >> Listen to your body.

> >>

> >

> > You know, its funny, but I never really thought about this whole issue in

> > this way. I have a lot of progesterone because I am premeno and my levels

> > are high, so maybe all of the warnings are for people whose levels are

> > very low or they no longer produce progesterone in their ovaries. Does

> > that sound right?

>

> If you have lots of progeterine in you, don't supplement it because

> apparently your body doesn't need it.

> You have a thyroid issue, low ferritin, and adrenal issues, and those are

> probably the reasons you are getting pre-meno symptoms, but this is

> fixable. In meno the estrogen drops/lowers, but progesterone does not. And

> in some women that 'excess' progesterone (not really an excess, but just

> not enough estrogen) can turn into androgens... One of the gals at one of

> the pharmacies I go to is very hypO, already gone totally thru meno, has a

> beard she shaves, male pattern baldness, and now has some masculine

> features (as compared to her id foto taken 5 years ago).

>

> > Did you have cancer on your thyroid? How much armour are you on?

>

> No, I didn't have cancer of the thyroid. I lost my " HEALTHY " thyroid

> because of a stupid idiot doctor. I went to see him to repair my lower

> back injury - I broke my back in an equestrian accident in 1987...and he

> destroyed my thyroid with radiation instead. He has a target on his back

> now...

>

> I don't take Armour, I switched from Armour to Naturethroid (11+ grains)

> after the new formulation of Armour made me sick like it was rat poison.

> You couldn't pay me enough to take that sh*t again...I am so angry I had

> to go thru that and that forest Pharmaceuticals did not inform us of any

> potential issues before shipping it out.

>

> Sam

>

[Guest guest]

When I was 21 I went in to get my tubes tied and ended up with someone

else's hysterectomy. For obvious reasons I do not trust doctors. These

days, no matter what, I 'check their homework' - if a doc tells me some

thing, I go and research it before I believe it or follow it.

Medical stupidity is not rare...look what they do to breast cancer

patients. EEK!

Sam

=====

> I cannot believe that horror about your doc destroying your thyroid. That

> kind of thing makes me so freakin mad! I am so sorry! Sounds so awful! You

> sound like you have figured out how to take care of yourself, though

> Yeah, I heard that the new armour is causing a lot of problems for people.

> Hopefully I can get my RT3 numbers back down (they are too high, which is

> why it cause problems) and try naturethroid again. I have to get my

> adrenals and ferritin in rder first, though, like you mentioned.

> I have tested electrolytes and I do sea salt and potassium (and of course

> mag) daily. The HC is the thing that really helps, though.

> I thought 35 was the full replacement dose?

> Thanks

> Liz W

>

>

>

>

>> RT3 is how the body rids itself of excess T4!!! That's all.

[Guest guest]

When I was 21 I went in to get my tubes tied and ended up with someone

else's hysterectomy. For obvious reasons I do not trust doctors. These

days, no matter what, I 'check their homework' - if a doc tells me some

thing, I go and research it before I believe it or follow it.

Medical stupidity is not rare...look what they do to breast cancer

patients. EEK!

Sam

=====

> I cannot believe that horror about your doc destroying your thyroid. That

> kind of thing makes me so freakin mad! I am so sorry! Sounds so awful! You

> sound like you have figured out how to take care of yourself, though

> Yeah, I heard that the new armour is causing a lot of problems for people.

> Hopefully I can get my RT3 numbers back down (they are too high, which is

> why it cause problems) and try naturethroid again. I have to get my

> adrenals and ferritin in rder first, though, like you mentioned.

> I have tested electrolytes and I do sea salt and potassium (and of course

> mag) daily. The HC is the thing that really helps, though.

> I thought 35 was the full replacement dose?

> Thanks

> Liz W

>

>

>

>

>> RT3 is how the body rids itself of excess T4!!! That's all.

[Guest guest]

Hi Laurel,

I've not been here in a long time, but I have been reading these posts for the

past few days and found this one of yours fascinating, especially concerning the

autonomic/sympathetic/calcium connection.

I think intuitively by listening to my body I have only recently come to realize

that I seem to need more calcium than magnesium. It was hard for me to be open

to that, since everything I've read says mag is good for palps (which I had big

time with ER visits), for sleep, etc.

But I would take it and the palps would be worse, the adrenaline surges seemed

to be worse and more frequent, and I would get acid reflux and constipation.

Then I saw a post on another group by someone who said she could not take mag

for some of the same reasons. So I started paying attention and saw the

connection. I was even taking epsom salt baths to help me relax and sleep well,

except those nights were worse with heart palps and adrenaline surges.

This went against everything I have read about mag.

As for the constipation, I've always had 'toilet clogger' BM's (sorry for

graphic description) and I know my colon is quite wide. Once I started using

more calcium, I am having regular BM's. I surmise that the mag was relaxing my

bowel too much, stopping the peristaltic action which pushes the stool through

the intestines.

I also noticed mag was making me not have much energy, and the calcium seems to

give me energy.

So could you elaborate more on this or point me to where I can read more about

it?

Also, P is evil for me, even in tiny amounts. It was the cause of a sudden

onset of massive anxiety and panic attacks. So I don't use it. I use

Oestrogel, 1/8 tsp twice/day and have not had a period since Feb. I'm deathly

afraid of P, yet I feel like I'm at the point where I need to induce a bleed.

How much and what form of P do you use to bleed and how long do you use it? If

I even use a lentil-sized amount of P, the panic and anxiety starts.

>

> Welome Liz,

>

> Now that I know what these hormones are doing I look back and realize

> I've been overly sensitive to P all my life. The oldest test I have

> are from when I was 39 and the E was menopausal and the P was sky

> high fertile. I was highly fertile too. I did the WP and the P

> nearly killed me. When I was pregnant with my last child I had open

> oozing blisters on my body in the two weeks pre birth (I later

> learned that is when the P is highest). When the WP P was too high I

> got the same open plasma oozing blisters on my skin. I found some

> medical references about that and can't find them now (somewhere in

> my bloated P bookmarks!).

>

> Now I use estradiol (I don't mess with estriol - Dr. Vliet has a good

> podcast about why that isn't so great www.herplace.com) and every few

> months create a bleed with a small ramp-up with prometrium and then a

> final dose of Plan B (morning after pill) and I get a good and

> organized bleed. Longer 10 day routines with P just send me to hell.

>

> I too have hashis, and when P is too high or my E is low it I get the

> symptoms of MS. When other things in my body are too

> parasympathetically dominant I can show up with asthma. When I lived

> in Austin I got all kinds of mysterious puffy swelling (it's super

> allergy country). Over the counter progesterone cream advised by the

> medicos and followed carefully was a disaster for me. With enough E

> I can sometimes overcome allergies.

>

> I now use small amounts of cortef to supplement my armour and t3

> routines. I have two boys (6 and 12) and have a very active life

> so whatever I'm doing is helping me go at full speed.

>

> If you search the group archives you can find other things I've

> written about parasympathetic dominant (also search autonomic nervous

> system). Calcium is very important to keeping me working well and I

> do not use magnesium as it supports the side of my nervous system

> that is powerful and lesses the side that is weak. There might be

> some ideas for you to brainstorm with and explore.

>

> Laurel

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Laurel,

I've not been here in a long time, but I have been reading these posts for the

past few days and found this one of yours fascinating, especially concerning the

autonomic/sympathetic/calcium connection.

I think intuitively by listening to my body I have only recently come to realize

that I seem to need more calcium than magnesium. It was hard for me to be open

to that, since everything I've read says mag is good for palps (which I had big

time with ER visits), for sleep, etc.

But I would take it and the palps would be worse, the adrenaline surges seemed

to be worse and more frequent, and I would get acid reflux and constipation.

Then I saw a post on another group by someone who said she could not take mag

for some of the same reasons. So I started paying attention and saw the

connection. I was even taking epsom salt baths to help me relax and sleep well,

except those nights were worse with heart palps and adrenaline surges.

This went against everything I have read about mag.

As for the constipation, I've always had 'toilet clogger' BM's (sorry for

graphic description) and I know my colon is quite wide. Once I started using

more calcium, I am having regular BM's. I surmise that the mag was relaxing my

bowel too much, stopping the peristaltic action which pushes the stool through

the intestines.

I also noticed mag was making me not have much energy, and the calcium seems to

give me energy.

So could you elaborate more on this or point me to where I can read more about

it?

Also, P is evil for me, even in tiny amounts. It was the cause of a sudden

onset of massive anxiety and panic attacks. So I don't use it. I use

Oestrogel, 1/8 tsp twice/day and have not had a period since Feb. I'm deathly

afraid of P, yet I feel like I'm at the point where I need to induce a bleed.

How much and what form of P do you use to bleed and how long do you use it? If

I even use a lentil-sized amount of P, the panic and anxiety starts.

>

> Welome Liz,

>

> Now that I know what these hormones are doing I look back and realize

> I've been overly sensitive to P all my life. The oldest test I have

> are from when I was 39 and the E was menopausal and the P was sky

> high fertile. I was highly fertile too. I did the WP and the P

> nearly killed me. When I was pregnant with my last child I had open

> oozing blisters on my body in the two weeks pre birth (I later

> learned that is when the P is highest). When the WP P was too high I

> got the same open plasma oozing blisters on my skin. I found some

> medical references about that and can't find them now (somewhere in

> my bloated P bookmarks!).

>

> Now I use estradiol (I don't mess with estriol - Dr. Vliet has a good

> podcast about why that isn't so great www.herplace.com) and every few

> months create a bleed with a small ramp-up with prometrium and then a

> final dose of Plan B (morning after pill) and I get a good and

> organized bleed. Longer 10 day routines with P just send me to hell.

>

> I too have hashis, and when P is too high or my E is low it I get the

> symptoms of MS. When other things in my body are too

> parasympathetically dominant I can show up with asthma. When I lived

> in Austin I got all kinds of mysterious puffy swelling (it's super

> allergy country). Over the counter progesterone cream advised by the

> medicos and followed carefully was a disaster for me. With enough E

> I can sometimes overcome allergies.

>

> I now use small amounts of cortef to supplement my armour and t3

> routines. I have two boys (6 and 12) and have a very active life

> so whatever I'm doing is helping me go at full speed.

>

> If you search the group archives you can find other things I've

> written about parasympathetic dominant (also search autonomic nervous

> system). Calcium is very important to keeping me working well and I

> do not use magnesium as it supports the side of my nervous system

> that is powerful and lesses the side that is weak. There might be

> some ideas for you to brainstorm with and explore.

>

> Laurel

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh my goodness, you have really been through some horrible medical stuff. God.

This makes me really mad, and scared! I know what you mean about researching. I

actually have a very good doc now and I STILL research night and day and there

are still things he doesn't know. In the area of womens health, metabolic health

and hormones, it is still the wild west out here, isn't it?

Liz W

> >> RT3 is how the body rids itself of excess T4!!! That's all.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Atlanta Girl,

I guess it was worth a shot going to see him, right? All of the things you are

dubious about are the same for me. I just don't think miniscule amounts of

progesterone sublingually will desensitize someone to progesterone. He seems a

little suspicious in too many ways for my comfort!

I have tons of questions for you!

Why did you initially go on unopposed e?

See, this is what freaks me out because your story sounds like mine-adrenal

fatigue, thryoid, progesterone intolerance. I am on unopposed e, too, but my

blood progesterone levels are high normal.

Were you premenol at the time?

Were your blood levels of P normal, high, or low? What about e?

What caused the bleeding? Endometrial issues or fibroids?

This is what I fear will happen to me, although I guess if I got a hysterectomy

I could take E unopposed, but I worry about the recorvery and my hormone

balance. How was that for you?

Also, how much HC to you get up to and how long did it take to wean off of it? I

feel like I keep having to go up and up on it! Do you have any residual effects

from the HC?

The only option I am really considering now regarding P is taking angeliq, which

is low dose HRT with the prog that is like spironolactone. I would cut the pill

in half and take it for the last part of my cycle. Still I don't know if that

would be enough to protect my lining. But this is all so confusing for me

because Sam brought up the point that since I have high-normal progesterone

levels then I shouldn't worry about this...arg!

I am glad you figured it all out!

Liz W

>

> I went to go see Dr. Roby for my progesterone " allergy " as he calls

> it. To me P appeared to go down the wrong pathways. At the time, out

> of necessity, I was on unopposed E as I worked with his

> desensitization process. He's an allergist that decided the hormone

> market was more lucrative. He didn't ask nor say anything about

> adrenal fatigue which I also had at the time. My unopposed E was a

> ticking time bomb as I was bleeding daily as I worked with my little

> sublingual viles of progesterone. You start out with a miniscule

> dilution and work up to greater strengths over the course of months.

> Whether it would have actually been successful to where I could

> tolerate 200 mg of oral P is doubtful. I ended up with a hysto. A

> year after the hysto I tried a dab of P cream and experienced instant

> hair loss. After 3 years of working with my adrenal protocol I am off

> HC and doing great on a moderate dose of armour thyroid. No longer

> making high levels of RT3. Something tells me I will never be able to

> use P and get any benefit from it. I am blissfully on 2 1/2 .1 E

> patches.

>

> Dr. Roby might have something there with an allergist's approach to P

> intolerance, but I'm not so sure. Does working from a fractional dose

> of P to a full dose change pathways? Can't imagine. Perhaps it works

> better when already having high P of your own as opposed to dosing P.

>

> (btw, when I mentioned SHBG to Roby he said, " what's that " ?) (scary)

>

> AG

>

>

>

> Hi Liz,

>

> Welcome! Have you checked out this place? It's Dr. Roby. I'm thinking

> someone on this group may have tried him out? I have not.

>

> http://onlineallergycenter.com/index.htm

>

> I find it interesting that the large amount of Estriol and a small

> amount of

> Estradiol helps you. I'm thinking if your P is highish in relation to

> your

> E, then you aren't E dominant? I wish I had had the knowledge that is

> out

> there now, when I was 38. I bet I could have saved myself a lot of pain.

> That was the age I started using compounded P (under a drs guidance) I

> went

> from not so bad to severe depression and endometrial cancer, and a

> complete

> hyst at the age of 39.

>

> Thanks for sharing your story and good luck!

>

> Liz V.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Atlanta Girl,

I guess it was worth a shot going to see him, right? All of the things you are

dubious about are the same for me. I just don't think miniscule amounts of

progesterone sublingually will desensitize someone to progesterone. He seems a

little suspicious in too many ways for my comfort!

I have tons of questions for you!

Why did you initially go on unopposed e?

See, this is what freaks me out because your story sounds like mine-adrenal

fatigue, thryoid, progesterone intolerance. I am on unopposed e, too, but my

blood progesterone levels are high normal.

Were you premenol at the time?

Were your blood levels of P normal, high, or low? What about e?

What caused the bleeding? Endometrial issues or fibroids?

This is what I fear will happen to me, although I guess if I got a hysterectomy

I could take E unopposed, but I worry about the recorvery and my hormone

balance. How was that for you?

Also, how much HC to you get up to and how long did it take to wean off of it? I

feel like I keep having to go up and up on it! Do you have any residual effects

from the HC?

The only option I am really considering now regarding P is taking angeliq, which

is low dose HRT with the prog that is like spironolactone. I would cut the pill

in half and take it for the last part of my cycle. Still I don't know if that

would be enough to protect my lining. But this is all so confusing for me

because Sam brought up the point that since I have high-normal progesterone

levels then I shouldn't worry about this...arg!

I am glad you figured it all out!

Liz W

>

> I went to go see Dr. Roby for my progesterone " allergy " as he calls

> it. To me P appeared to go down the wrong pathways. At the time, out

> of necessity, I was on unopposed E as I worked with his

> desensitization process. He's an allergist that decided the hormone

> market was more lucrative. He didn't ask nor say anything about

> adrenal fatigue which I also had at the time. My unopposed E was a

> ticking time bomb as I was bleeding daily as I worked with my little

> sublingual viles of progesterone. You start out with a miniscule

> dilution and work up to greater strengths over the course of months.

> Whether it would have actually been successful to where I could

> tolerate 200 mg of oral P is doubtful. I ended up with a hysto. A

> year after the hysto I tried a dab of P cream and experienced instant

> hair loss. After 3 years of working with my adrenal protocol I am off

> HC and doing great on a moderate dose of armour thyroid. No longer

> making high levels of RT3. Something tells me I will never be able to

> use P and get any benefit from it. I am blissfully on 2 1/2 .1 E

> patches.

>

> Dr. Roby might have something there with an allergist's approach to P

> intolerance, but I'm not so sure. Does working from a fractional dose

> of P to a full dose change pathways? Can't imagine. Perhaps it works

> better when already having high P of your own as opposed to dosing P.

>

> (btw, when I mentioned SHBG to Roby he said, " what's that " ?) (scary)

>

> AG

>

>

>

> Hi Liz,

>

> Welcome! Have you checked out this place? It's Dr. Roby. I'm thinking

> someone on this group may have tried him out? I have not.

>

> http://onlineallergycenter.com/index.htm

>

> I find it interesting that the large amount of Estriol and a small

> amount of

> Estradiol helps you. I'm thinking if your P is highish in relation to

> your

> E, then you aren't E dominant? I wish I had had the knowledge that is

> out

> there now, when I was 38. I bet I could have saved myself a lot of pain.

> That was the age I started using compounded P (under a drs guidance) I

> went

> from not so bad to severe depression and endometrial cancer, and a

> complete

> hyst at the age of 39.

>

> Thanks for sharing your story and good luck!

>

> Liz V.

>

[Guest guest]

Hard lessons for me...but the good news is that I lived.

So the point is to learn everything you can.

Know more than the doctors out there, which these days doesn't really take

that much - maybe one or two 1st grade primers...

Sam

=====

> Oh my goodness, you have really been through some horrible medical stuff.

> God. This makes me really mad, and scared! I know what you mean about

> researching. I actually have a very good doc now and I STILL research

> night and day and there are still things he doesn't know. In the area of

> womens health, metabolic health and hormones, it is still the wild west

> out here, isn't it?

>

> Liz W

>

>

>

>>

>> When I was 21 I went in to get my tubes tied and ended up with someone

>> else's hysterectomy. For obvious reasons I do not trust doctors.

[Guest guest]

Hard lessons for me...but the good news is that I lived.

So the point is to learn everything you can.

Know more than the doctors out there, which these days doesn't really take

that much - maybe one or two 1st grade primers...

Sam

=====

> Oh my goodness, you have really been through some horrible medical stuff.

> God. This makes me really mad, and scared! I know what you mean about

> researching. I actually have a very good doc now and I STILL research

> night and day and there are still things he doesn't know. In the area of

> womens health, metabolic health and hormones, it is still the wild west

> out here, isn't it?

>

> Liz W

>

>

>

>>

>> When I was 21 I went in to get my tubes tied and ended up with someone

>> else's hysterectomy. For obvious reasons I do not trust doctors.

[Guest guest]

Hi Liz W.

I started down the hormone path at around 38. I was having hot

flashes and some mood things. My periods were still completely normal. I then

started on probably around 50-100mg P 2 weeks out of the month. Apparently the P

did not protect me. I have been told by many that I probably had the cancer and

the P slowed it down. I’m thinking they were wrong. But I don’t

have anything to prove it. I now use about 8-12 mg of transdermal

Estradiol. I was on the WP for a year. That was almost 5 years ago. It’s

been a living nightmare since.

The first 3 months on the WP were fine due to the fact, I think,

that I was so deficient from not using any hormones for 4 years after my hyst.

What’s sad is the pro P is everywhere! Chiropractors, acupuncturists,

hair stylers, ackkkk, everyone says E is bad and I MUST use P. Seems I know

more women who have/had some kind of cancer who were on E/P combos or straight

P. Even using the transdermals.

I still feel like crapola for what it’s worth, ha!

You sound like you have been doing your homework. Good for you!

Liz V

From:

rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On

Behalf Of wliz@...

Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:31 AM

To: rhythmicliving

Subject: Re: progesterone intolerance and estrogen

cream

Hi Liz!

You can call me Liz W!

I am so sorry about your ordeal! How much progesterone and estrogen were you

taking and what started you down that path? Do you think that is what caused

the cancer? Isn't progesterone supposes to protect us from that????Gaaaa!

Do you still have your ovaries? What do you take now?

I am definitely not E dominant. My estrogen is in the mid range and

progesterone is in the high range right now (I think hydrocortisone lowers

estrogen, otherwise it would probably be more balanced). Sometimes my estro is

slightly higher than progesterone, but it changes.

I just worry that if I start taking lots of estriol with a little estradiol

then I will have the endometrial build up, but I feel so much better on the

estrogen.

I have totally seen Dr Roby's site. I do think there is something to what he is

saying about progesterone sensitivity in some people. The unfortunate thing about

him is that he seems a bit sketchy to me, sort of a creepy salesman type. I

also think some parts of his theory are questionable, like the pubic hair

patterns (ick! don't wanna know about the research! LOL) and the tiny

sublingual progesterone drop treatment. I doubt it would work.

I wish someone else would research progesterone intolerance. It seems like we

are in the stage where all docs seem to LOVE progesterone. Very frustrating and

difficult to find one who has an open mind!

Were you on the Wiley Protocol?

How are you feeling now?

Thanks for the reply!

LizW

>

> Hi Liz,

>

>

>

> Welcome! Have you checked out this place? It's Dr. Roby. I'm thinking

> someone on this group may have tried him out? I have not.

>

>

>

> http://onlineallergycenter.com/index.htm

>

>

>

> I find it interesting that the large amount of Estriol and a small amount

of

> Estradiol helps you. I'm thinking if your P is highish in relation to your

> E, then you aren't E dominant? I wish I had had the knowledge that is out

> there now, when I was 38. I bet I could have saved myself a lot of pain.

> That was the age I started using compounded P (under a drs guidance) I

went

> from not so bad to severe depression and endometrial cancer, and a

complete

> hyst at the age of 39.

>

>

>

> Thanks for sharing your story and good luck!

>

>

>

> Liz V.

>

>

>

>

>

> From: rhythmicliving

[mailto:rhythmicliving ]

> On Behalf Of wliz@...

> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 10:49 PM

> To: rhythmicliving

> Subject: progesterone intolerance and estrogen cream

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi everyone!

> Glad to be here on the board. I had not heard of the Wiley protocol but I

> have been trying to search for information on progesterone intolerance

> (there is not much out there!) and I found the rhythmic living site.

> I will tell my story briefly. I am 38 years old, premenopausal with uterus.

> When I was 23 I had a terrible virus and have had a host of health issues

> ever since. I have hashimoto's thyroiditis, asthma, and blood tests have

> recently shown that I have adrenal fatigue. I am under treatment for both

of

> these conditions, as well as depression, which is also chronic.

> I seem to have problems with autoimmune types of things, and I tend to

swell

> up a lot for mysterious reasons.

> Anyway, through a series of personal trial and error sessions, I actually

> ended up learning that estriol cream in highish doses helps many of my

> health problems for reasons I don't understand, particularly when combined

> with a small amount of estradiol. Almost miraculously.

> I wanted to try this as a real remedy for my situation, but of course I

knew

> I needed progesterone in the second half of my cycle. I learned quickly

that

> progesterone makes me really ill. Even bioidentical progesterone in a

teeny

> little dab makes me really sick, asthmatic, depressed and totally non

> functional. I am wondering if progesterone sensitivity is the reason for

> many of my health issues (worse during the luteal phase of my cycle)

> So I am finding myself searching everywhere for answers about whether I

can

> take estrogen unopposed, or if there is any other option.

> I can't understand that something which makes me so sick is necessary for

> me, but I don't want endometrial cancer!

> All of my hormone tests are in the normal range, although now my

> progesterone is a little highish, and I feel it!

> Any info about any of this would be greatly appreciated!

> Thanks

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Liz W.

I started down the hormone path at around 38. I was having hot

flashes and some mood things. My periods were still completely normal. I then

started on probably around 50-100mg P 2 weeks out of the month. Apparently the P

did not protect me. I have been told by many that I probably had the cancer and

the P slowed it down. I’m thinking they were wrong. But I don’t

have anything to prove it. I now use about 8-12 mg of transdermal

Estradiol. I was on the WP for a year. That was almost 5 years ago. It’s

been a living nightmare since.

The first 3 months on the WP were fine due to the fact, I think,

that I was so deficient from not using any hormones for 4 years after my hyst.

What’s sad is the pro P is everywhere! Chiropractors, acupuncturists,

hair stylers, ackkkk, everyone says E is bad and I MUST use P. Seems I know

more women who have/had some kind of cancer who were on E/P combos or straight

P. Even using the transdermals.

I still feel like crapola for what it’s worth, ha!

You sound like you have been doing your homework. Good for you!

Liz V

From:

rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On

Behalf Of wliz@...

Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:31 AM

To: rhythmicliving

Subject: Re: progesterone intolerance and estrogen

cream

Hi Liz!

You can call me Liz W!

I am so sorry about your ordeal! How much progesterone and estrogen were you

taking and what started you down that path? Do you think that is what caused

the cancer? Isn't progesterone supposes to protect us from that????Gaaaa!

Do you still have your ovaries? What do you take now?

I am definitely not E dominant. My estrogen is in the mid range and

progesterone is in the high range right now (I think hydrocortisone lowers

estrogen, otherwise it would probably be more balanced). Sometimes my estro is

slightly higher than progesterone, but it changes.

I just worry that if I start taking lots of estriol with a little estradiol

then I will have the endometrial build up, but I feel so much better on the

estrogen.

I have totally seen Dr Roby's site. I do think there is something to what he is

saying about progesterone sensitivity in some people. The unfortunate thing about

him is that he seems a bit sketchy to me, sort of a creepy salesman type. I

also think some parts of his theory are questionable, like the pubic hair

patterns (ick! don't wanna know about the research! LOL) and the tiny

sublingual progesterone drop treatment. I doubt it would work.

I wish someone else would research progesterone intolerance. It seems like we

are in the stage where all docs seem to LOVE progesterone. Very frustrating and

difficult to find one who has an open mind!

Were you on the Wiley Protocol?

How are you feeling now?

Thanks for the reply!

LizW

>

> Hi Liz,

>

>

>

> Welcome! Have you checked out this place? It's Dr. Roby. I'm thinking

> someone on this group may have tried him out? I have not.

>

>

>

> http://onlineallergycenter.com/index.htm

>

>

>

> I find it interesting that the large amount of Estriol and a small amount

of

> Estradiol helps you. I'm thinking if your P is highish in relation to your

> E, then you aren't E dominant? I wish I had had the knowledge that is out

> there now, when I was 38. I bet I could have saved myself a lot of pain.

> That was the age I started using compounded P (under a drs guidance) I

went

> from not so bad to severe depression and endometrial cancer, and a

complete

> hyst at the age of 39.

>

>

>

> Thanks for sharing your story and good luck!

>

>

>

> Liz V.

>

>

>

>

>

> From: rhythmicliving

[mailto:rhythmicliving ]

> On Behalf Of wliz@...

> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 10:49 PM

> To: rhythmicliving

> Subject: progesterone intolerance and estrogen cream

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi everyone!

> Glad to be here on the board. I had not heard of the Wiley protocol but I

> have been trying to search for information on progesterone intolerance

> (there is not much out there!) and I found the rhythmic living site.

> I will tell my story briefly. I am 38 years old, premenopausal with uterus.

> When I was 23 I had a terrible virus and have had a host of health issues

> ever since. I have hashimoto's thyroiditis, asthma, and blood tests have

> recently shown that I have adrenal fatigue. I am under treatment for both

of

> these conditions, as well as depression, which is also chronic.

> I seem to have problems with autoimmune types of things, and I tend to

swell

> up a lot for mysterious reasons.

> Anyway, through a series of personal trial and error sessions, I actually

> ended up learning that estriol cream in highish doses helps many of my

> health problems for reasons I don't understand, particularly when combined

> with a small amount of estradiol. Almost miraculously.

> I wanted to try this as a real remedy for my situation, but of course I

knew

> I needed progesterone in the second half of my cycle. I learned quickly

that

> progesterone makes me really ill. Even bioidentical progesterone in a

teeny

> little dab makes me really sick, asthmatic, depressed and totally non

> functional. I am wondering if progesterone sensitivity is the reason for

> many of my health issues (worse during the luteal phase of my cycle)

> So I am finding myself searching everywhere for answers about whether I

can

> take estrogen unopposed, or if there is any other option.

> I can't understand that something which makes me so sick is necessary for

> me, but I don't want endometrial cancer!

> All of my hormone tests are in the normal range, although now my

> progesterone is a little highish, and I feel it!

> Any info about any of this would be greatly appreciated!

> Thanks

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Liz

The WP sounds so awful. I am sorry that you haven't been feeling well since. Has

it gotten any better?

So do you think the progesterone actually caused the cancer? Were you on

estrogen at the same time?

I am 38 and my period is normal too, although the quality has changed since I

started the estriol. It is not any heavier though.

I hope you can find a solution and start feeling better.

Liz W

[Guest guest]

Hi again Liz

I realized I am asking you the same questions as my last post. Brain fog!

How did you realize that you had cancer? Did you start bleeding or have other

symptoms? It is crazy that it only took one year on the hormones. Wow. Very

scary.

Was the recovery from the hysterectomy really hard?

These doctors...i don't know.

Liz W