Re: revelations

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/31/2004 6:02:45 AM Central Standard Time, zozie@...

writes:

>Revelations in modern times seems to be ranked right beside Nostradamos, and

>is about as trust-worthy. Read it as a surrealistic document and it's

>mind-bending.

Hi all,

I'm not going to have time for an in-depth or detailed discussion so I just

want to throw a log on the fire for consideration. :>)

Has anyone considered that The Book of Revelation might be a symbolic journey

of personal consciousness? I recently read a short book on this type of

interpretation. Since I'm not really a Bible student, it seems possible to me.

Just a few quickies:

Revelation 1-4

Addressing the Seven Churches - Self Revelation

Revelation 5-8

Opening the Seven-Sealed Book - Opening of the Seven Centers (Chakras)

Revelation 8-11

Sounding the Seven Trumpets - Personal Purification

Revelation 12-14

The Appearance of Seven Personages - Establishment of the Higher Self as the

Ideal

Revelation 15-16

Seven Angels with Seven Vials - Meeting the Karmic Memory of the Seven Centers

Revelation 17-20

The Fall of Babylon - Overthrowing the Dominion of the Lower Self

Revelation 21-22

A New Heaven and a New Earth - Ascendancy of the Higher Self

There's plenty of archetypal imagery in Revelation, lions, eagles, dragons,

etc., so perhaps reading Revelation from an archetypally symbolic and Jungian

viewpoint might give a whole different meaning to it than the usual direly

prophetic aspect.

Justathought.

Namasté

Sam

[Guest guest]

Dear Phoebe,

My recent reading has lead me in a slightly different direction, Phoebe, but

your points are certainly true.

I would say however, that the actual words of Jesus do not in anyway recommend

sedition. It was later additions to these words which are included in the

gospels as written that may anger the authorities.The early Jewish-Christian

small , frightened groups were in no way a danger to Rome, they were

insignificant at the beginning. The Jewish leaders and Rome had their own

problems which seemed resolved after 77C.E. anyway to the sorrow of the Jews.

I had an incorrect view of the early church until these books spurned by the Nag

Hamindi discoveries . So did my Catholic sources like E. Brown and

Pheme Perkins, for example,.both eminent Scripture Scholars The history of the

early church is being rewritten, still today..

As for Revelation, I always had a problem with it, even though the catholic view

was that it was written to buck-up the frightened Christians of Rome during the

terrors.I never included it in my meditations...it just wasn't real to me and I

thought it a mistake to include it in the cannon.( obviously the Church did not

agree with me, but that is old news)...Of course that was before I learned about

the other gospels and early writings which were also excluded.

I have a lot to learn.as I imagine do all teachers of Scripture, whose previous

opinions of the early days of the community of believers are headed for the

dustheap.

Thanks for your views.It is an exciting time to be alive.

Toni

revelations

In a message dated 3/31/04 4:33:30 AM, Toni writes:

<< I am really surprised that with all the scribes around, this wasn't

primitive times, ( I don't consider that " ancient " ), why someone didn't write

a

Gospel sooner. No need just to rely on memories. >>

Where is is said there were *all those scribes around*? Scribes mostly

handled legal documents for the non-literate. No, it certainly wasn't

primitive, but

is generally, for convenience sake, considered ancient.

Why would they write down the gospels for a largely illiterate society? The

early Christians weren't invited to the palace; the disciples were teaching on

the mean streets. Oral traditions die hard. There are still some such in the

world. Remember that Socrates never wrote a word. There WAS a need to rely on

memory. Besides, it probably would have raised some hackles in Rome and

anyone

writing seditious material might have feared for their lives.

The whole history of writing is fascinating, including the natty puzzles,

viz. the three centuries, roughly 1100-800 bce, when everyone in what is now

Greece apparently forgot how to write.

Revelations in modern times seems to be ranked right beside Nostradamos, and

is about as trust-worthy. Read it as a surrealistic document and it's

mind-bending.

lightly lightly,

phoebe

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/1/2004 6:56:12 PM Central Standard Time,

marshkan1@... writes:

> Has anyone considered that The Book of Revelation

> might be a symbolic journey a of personal

> consciousness?... it seems possible to me.

Dear Sam,

This idea, in fact, is the central thesis of one of

Edinger's last books before he died: ARCHETYPE

OF THE APOCALYPSE A Jungian Study of the Book of

Revelation.

Hi Greg,

I haven't read it but now I s'pose I'm gonna hafta. *G* It'd be interesting

to see how it compares to the book I read by Todeschi.

Thanks for mentioning it.

Namasté

Sam

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/1/2004 8:22:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,

sampatron@... writes:

Has anyone considered that The Book of Revelation

> might be a symbolic journey a of personal

> consciousness?... it seems possible to me.

Hi Jung Fire patrons,

Since most of the material content for this imagery found in " Revelations " ,

ie, " Something New " , was culled from various " Old " texts of the Biblical

prophets, I think a better title would have been, Re-hashations! But then, as

long

as those ingredients are still edible and make such an incredibly

Gas-tronomical fuss after being so explosively combined and consumed, well, hey

I also

thought that classic scene around the campfire in Mel's " Blazing Saddles? " , was

a

real riot too!

The Mutt